 Hello everyone and welcome to another Wednesday night broadcast of the this week in science podcast It's gonna be so much fun tonight Natalia. You don't like fun, right? I am a fun sponge I soak it up and I Give you nothing but pain No If you get squozed Yeah, it's like I can suck it up and then I I become bloat with fun with fun Off to a great beginning Have to let everyone know that as we get started with the show. This is the live thing everyone It will be edited for the podcast A bit who knows who knows what will happen and what may be removed But this is what you get. So thank you for being here for this Hit the likes the subscribes the thumbs up send the link to your friends Make sure everybody's here to see us. Talk about science once again. Are we ready to go live? Let's do it. Let's do it. Yes Yeah Beginning the show in three two This is Twists this week in science episode number 952 recorded on wednesday november 29th 2023 Under the beaver moon I'm dr. Kiki and tonight on the show. We are going to fill your heads with cysts ladies and kisses but first disclaimer disclaimer disclaimer Science is ultimately a human endeavor We attempt to be clever with our questions and tools Trying so hard not to be made fools by the nature of things We are human beings. We shout into the void We want to be heard not accidentally destroyed by the flip of a bit of volcano a comet We aim for greatness by climbing hierarchical Scaffolds created by ancestors of old who had no idea Who we would be after they came down from the trees As we build and create in this time and place. Can we see see who we will be? When we cross space instead of seas Or do we look down our noses for singular purposes beavering away for another day? Look up for a moment and imagine What could happen with us here on another episode of this week in science? Coming up next Day of the week there's only one place to go to find the knowledge I seek. I want to know Science everyone welcome to another episode of this week in science Thank you so much for joining us for another show And I'm really glad to have Natalia Regan joining us once again with her skulls and brains and bones and thoughts and hugs Mustaches Yes existential crises. I bring all the things That's the best one. Let's have those. Oh, I'm gonna I got chuckle You know, I thought I was full with fun Underneath the fun is a layer filled with existential crises Yeah, it's true for most of us So many layers we contain so many layers of onion that make us cry All right, no crying tonight I really hope we don't end up there. We're hoping to have fun optimism reality science great time and uh, let's see on the show ahead I brought Stories about a cloacal kiss that was very surprising Some cysts in the snow Angry lady flies Yeah, some climate action Hopefully solutions talk and then I've got some brain stuff at the end. Do we have no on a wi-fi what? Natalia did you brought some stories for tonight? I'm gonna do you want to talk about a lot of a monkey business technically grade 8 business I brought some stuff about the importance of cooperation in our own species and how we can actually look to bonobos Who do more cooperating than competing because chimps They they like to fight And I also have a Panama where I did my research I studied spider monkeys there and they actually just had a coup for conservation where they were able to Sort of stave off some mining that is being done on the Atlantic coast there and a lot of protests have been going on So we're seeing some great gains for conservation. What else did I send you? There was uh, oh menopausal chimps and bonobos uh chimps specifically Uh, we humans are very unique in the fact that we have menopause and there we'll talk about the grandmother hypothesis but it looks like chimps might Be doing it too. Everybody's going through menopause. It's the cool thing to do Oh, yay I know And and and and maybe this is my brain on um potential perimenopause uh also women the hunter that uh Two friends of mine who are bioanthropologists just wrote a article for scientific american And they are being trolled by a lot of men on the internet who probably couldn't hunt to save their life Uh about how they're crazy for thinking that women Were hunting equally uh to men in the in pre-history but science and research says otherwise And you know what we're just crazy enough to talk about it on this show That's right. Yeah, we're gonna do it. Yeah, we're gonna do it Yes, and uh, if you don't remember from last week All of you out there who are watching who are listening natalia is The intelligently hilarious banana in chief bearer of mustaches caretaker of the gelatinous raisin and Additionally an anthropologist primatologist actress and comedian. So I'm looking forward to another fabulous show. Thanks. Thanks so much for joining again Thank you for having me. That was so much fun Okay, well, okay. Goodbye now. We're done. Yeah No We have things the fun sponge has reached her quota. I gotta go now No, that was that was hilarious. I had so much fun. So I'm are you kidding? I jumped at the chance In a banana suit and you like I need to go buy a new sponge. Obviously Need more swole For everyone out there who has not yet subscribed to this week in science You can find us all places podcasts are found look for this week in science. We broadcast Live weekly Wednesdays 8 p.m. Pacific time ish on youtube twitch and facebook And our website is twist org. We are on the social medias I'll think more so now i'm on the blue sky and you know, there's the mastodon and the other things But we're that we're there but go to our website if you have questions and don't forget to subscribe Time to jump in To the science We're gonna go with some of the serious stuff right off the top this week is The week that cop 28 gets started and this is not another season of You know a cop program You know like nine one one or whatever those programs reality tv cop programs are In I just broke a thing. Whoo. Yay. Good job. Did you break the internet? I broke the internet. I thought so yes The cop conference is the annual united nations climate change conference and it's been going on for 28 years This is the 28th instance of it It starts this week under the shadow of a bunch of news that the host country Dubai and the united arab emirates are hoping to use the gathering To benefit their oil and gas contracts. We've spoken at length on this program previously about issues Surrounding greenwashing of climate efforts by fossil fuel companies and how many of these Agreements and these conferences just seem to be makings of good financial agreements for companies that already have good financial agreements as opposed to actually making solutions, but This particular news this week was a particularly low So instead of talking about that and the poor pay poor faith bargaining that's going on between governments and industry finance executives I want to talk about solutions and The things that need to be addressed if we do want to minimize The growth of our temperature trajectory as we recently in the last Week Did hit over that two degrees cell Celsius barrier? But generally we are well on our path toward as a globe exceeding the 1.5 degree Celsius temperature increase that was Stated as a limit by the un climate change conference back in 2015 so That's the part of it Now let's talk about the the part of it that is going well the world resources institute just released A report of their findings of the annual state of climate action report series They've done this every single year and this year They've been trying to put together a comprehensive roadmap of what's needed by 2030 and 2050 so kind of looking at these different time steps moving forward and Giving targets for what we need to do. They've been analyzing 42 indicators of progress And how many battalia do you think we're on track with? To keep the 2030 target of 1.5 degrees Celsius. I don't know how many How much what is the number between is it one in four one in five? But somewhere between one and 42 because that's how many factors they analyze Yeah, but I don't think it's even close to 30. Yeah, they're uh, I'll be generous 20 One One Yeah Direction right direction on track and so the surprising thing is that is the sales of electric vehicles Wow, okay. Yeah, no Not the thing that you would expect necessarily but uh electric vehicles probably because it's uh being pushed forward And it's a profit maker. It's cool. It's you know, it's gone through a lot of work to Uh become a part of the auto market, but um, dear lord Yeah Work in there. So the things that are in the right direction get off track Just not quite doing it. Um are the share of zero carbon sources and electricity generation So, yeah, what are we using that's sustainable that's renewable that is uh, not carbon related Uh, the share of electric vehicles in the light duty vehicle fleet. So these are fleet vehicles buses Cargo vans all sorts of you know, these heavy things Why are they not they're big put big batteries in them put big hydrogen fuel cells in them What is happening there? I don't know anyway Share of electric vehicles in two and three wheeler sailor sales. So motorcycles and three wheelers that yeah Okay, um Ruminant meat productivity. We're still Too many cows. We don't need that. That's I mean again. Yeah Meatless monday. I haven't eaten a endotherm since 1995. So cows are safe for me but yeah, they've all been marked safe from natalia since then but Yeah, they between their farts and producing them. It's just Yeah, it's uh Sorry, I'm Yeah, it's all bad. It would be hoof us to stop eating It would be hoof us even once. Yeah, we need to really ruminate on this. Yeah, we do need to ruminate. Oh boy I'm sorry. It's milking these buns. It's beginning Just sneaking away. I might have to send you out to the forest. But oh, no, I can't because uh Reforestation is not doing what it's supposed to do. We're still cutting down and burying down forests Sorry, even though you have a pretty dark green forest behind you. Oh, yeah, so real so real It's not doing anything for the climate. I'm sorry Sadly, I think it's probably was produced by fossil fuels polyesters and Probably anyway, we will we will not talk about that for a moment share of global ghg greenhouse gas emissions under mandatory corporate climate risk disclosure So those corporations that are supposed to be disclosing and reducing The greenhouse gas emissions they're not doing it and this gets back to the greenwashing and the You know issues that are at hand. So there are places that are on in the right direction. They're just off track we need to convince those corporations to Continue their efforts to actually do good. Let's work on reforestation Let's work on reducing the amount of meat that we eat every week. Let's work on those zero carbon sources What can we do to get our policy makers? To start really implementing solar wind uh water Geothermal all the things that we have out there I'm not even talk about The number of things that are well off track because there's a big number of them But the things that are definitely in the wrong direction carbon intensity of global steel production share of kilometers traveled by passenger cars We need more ride sharing share of battery electric vehicles and fuel cell electric vehicles and bus sales Again that goes to the fleet stuff mangrove loss We need to really be good to the mangroves. I love mangroves lots of crocodiles sorry Crocodiles are we need the crocodiles too? Yeah, we do absolutely Robust ecosystem We're wasting food and uh, we are still Financing fossil fuels to the tune of billions of dollars a year There's that there's a u-turn that is needed there, so Things are changing. There are solutions. We have solutions solar is doing so much better. There was just an increase in the uh, the the the capability of solar cells to turn solar energy into electricity There have been lots of advances in ways that we can work with communities for more Reforestation to protect the mangroves to protect seagrasses to protect so many things and work sustainably, but We have solutions everyone Will power is where it's at Willpower and financial incentives, you know, um, I worked in Panama and that's why I brought up that article Which we'll get to later But uh, I I know that uh, this is kind of a neat story The work that I did in Panama was to do a survey of a critically endangered spider monkey to understand the connectivity or the lack Of connectivity of forest fragments So you we could understand where reforestation and corridor maintenance needed to be And I was originally going to do uh, the ethoprimatology based on the survey But the original researcher backed out and so I did it and I was hoping to be more on the ground with With the landowners. I did a little bit of that afterwards But this is the coolest thing my uncle who is much younger than me. He's 29 years old. He's awesome He's working in actually sustainable food systems uh went from business to into that but he was working with a company who is um Basically doing carpet carpet credits to the landowners or giving them to the landowners to incentivize Reforestation of the area that I specifically worked in so it's kind of one of those. Yeah, I was like, oh my full circle Ah, I know I was like how the heck did Because I I miss it. I love it so much Los Santos Panama. It's it's gorgeous. It's beautiful But it's one of the most heavily deforested areas in all of a Panama It's one of the last tropical dry forests in the region It's very unique and the fact that it has a You know a very unique ecosystem and also, you know, it's it's a lot more temperate than say like the canal zone But anyways, you know when you give people it's it's kind of like what um, you know Jane Goodall and a lot of other conservationists have said in the past few decades is Conservation whether it's the forest whether it's animals. I you know food systems. It has to be people first You know everything else second because if if the needs of people are not met, you know, they're always going to go for the option That's going to benefit immediate, you know immediate benefits, especially if they can't feed themselves. So again, I think that money, unfortunately is what You know, and that's why these dumb companies if they just you know, if you want to help Help the people on the ground Give them the reason to do it Yeah, I think that's it's it's all in the wallet right or in you know, the the survival of people but That's I think that's the value proposition, right is If we ruin the ecosystems, we're ruining ruining our survivability, but yeah, it's a very self fit Yeah, yeah, but the long-term planning of how these things fit together in a cycle is it's hard to Pull through Yeah, yeah Yeah, it's called innovation such a selfish endeavor if you think about it, you know, even like saving the turtles It's like we'll be saving the world that will ultimately sustain us in theory. So Yeah, well technically we don't live in the ocean. That was a bad example But if we save the frogs if we Why don't we keep picking these aquatic animals frogs are definitely they can If we save the ferrets It's been a long day you won't be the California won't be happy with that, but Yeah, no if conservation is selfish Then I'm a selfish person. There we go Hoover Oh, you know what else is selfish sometimes, but I don't know sex This is a total total segue. That's terrible and switching topics entirely. Oh my god, kiki go on I might be a little baddie about this story. So We're gonna talk about bat sex And there have been lots and lots of studies on bats and how they have intercourse But there's a few species and they've taken videos and you know, they watch bats hold on to each other One bats in the bottom one bats on the top They hold on to each other lovingly for a while Yes In this particular study published in current biology researchers looked at a particular species called the seratine bat Aptizicus serotonous and this bat They they started studying it because the researchers are the lead author Nicholas Fezal of the University of Lausanne says Wow these bats have Extremely long large penises So how does that work? Because apparently The vagina of the female bat is much smaller than the penis of male bat They do have a very long cervix. So that's interesting in itself So these bats these baddie researchers they collaborated with a bat rehabilitation center in Ukraine that opportunistically filmed mating pairs of bats Yeah And then there was also a bat enthusiast and citizen scientist named Jan Jukin who filmed hours of bat sex in a church attic in the netherlands So this story is getting better is All the details of this story I lecher that Wow So they analyzed 97 mating events and What they saw Is that these bats Don't have sex like the rest of mammals There is no penetration and instead They have sex like birds. It's like a cloacal kiss where just The ends Come together They saw that these interactions between the loving bats lasted usually less than 53 minutes But the longest one they recorded 12.7 hours They did not have the It's a marathon there the Researchers were not because this is just opportunistic recording. They weren't able to actually sample anything from the females to know how much or if any semen was left behind how much was Stored in the cervix. The idea is that the Unusually large cervix or long cervix is extra long to hold extra semen But they don't know that for a fact in this particular species They characterized the morphology of these bats that and they captured some of them And they found that the measurements of these particular bat genitalia Winirect Are around seven times longer and seven times wider than the female Genitalia the the vagina and a fifth as long as the bats head to body length One fifth of the length of the bat It's like a giant amardillo Why? Yeah Why so first they were like, how does this work and then they're oh, well it works differently This is the first time we've seen this in a mammal This cloacal kiss kind of thing um But they're interested in learning about what's happening between the male and female sexual selection pressures Because very often females have selection to avoid unwanted copulations and unwanted things and so what they speculate is that there are tail membranes that the females have evolved that cover their Their vaginas and their genitalia to cover the lower parts and protect themselves, but these very large Penises of the males have been evolved to push those aside And overcome the membranes to reach the vulvas And this particular quote and I'm not I'm not going to show any videos of the bat The bat mating or we don't need to I'm not going to show that on we don't have 12 hours kiki. I don't have 12 hours here This particular quote Is just ridiculous the researcher Says their next plans are to study the mating behavior in more natural contexts not in these You know specialized situations like church addicts and I want to investigate other bat morphology and mating habits and quote We are trying to develop a bat porn box Which will be like an aquarium with cameras everywhere I am so in I really think that we need to fund this research. So A national science foundations everywhere This Is essential research We need to understand the copulatory patterns of animals across The animal kingdom We can't just assume that because birds do it one way that bats don't do it the same Yeah Yeah I mean and also birds have so many, you know, there's so many variations like we we I used to have chickens. Yeah, they're duck. Yeah. Yeah. Who needs a who needs a wine opener when you got a duck penis That's all I can say. I mean they have a corkscrew. Well, some ducks not all ducks, but a corkscrew shaped Bologna pony and good news the female ducks have a corkscrew shaped vijay fk Uh, but yeah, I what this article about the bats was bouncing around in my uh My group chat because we're a bunch of weirdos and there was one quote and I'm going to try to find it That was just so poetic And amazing about just the sheer size of this uh phallic warrior sword that these um bats are You know pack in heat by the way bats are known to also have a baculum or bacula, which is plural for baculum Or the penis bone similar to dogs Dogs yeah, so there's uh a bunch of animals that have them non-human primates have them Except for spider monkeys. They don't have them. So that makes them pretty darn unique. Where is my bat wiener? Quote that is so absolutely beautiful and poetic um God it's so far back there. It's it's almost disappointing Like somebody said something funny one time. Oh, yes Uh, I call I called the species the Ron Jeremy of chiropractor. Uh, let's see Yeah, it basically would it would it would be because I did the math because I had to It would be like a six foot dude having a 15 inch bologna pony Um, but one of my favorite quotes of one of the articles I read would be unwieldy It would be um To be fair the giant armadillo has uh in in comparison It would be like a six foot tall man with a two foot long bologna pony Um, but this quote really shook me We think it would really be difficult for it to enter anything. That's what they said about the the bat Anything they didn't even specify any bat just anything anything. I'm just just seeing it flying around with You know a toddler's arm. Anyway, it's it's wild And so this this this also leads to another just kind of general animal adaptation evolution question, which is We normally think about How are the size of things especially in flying animals impacts their weight to You know ability like how you know ability to fly Uh, you know how much how much mass are they trying to fly around through the air the peacock is a great example That's tough on that bird to have all the feathers all the feathers. So what is the challenge? of this giant member of the bat body Uh, and how what is the what's the trade-off? Like is it you know, is it specifically the competition between the men the males and the females in the bat society? Or like is there something else? What's happening there? I'm also wondering about the like the the testee size too because like for instance a lot of like promiscuous species I I just did actually a live stream about body counts and humans and how in dating people care about how many people you've been with and I and I went through all these animals where it's like Are you kidding that that only just increases their chances of having you know, the healthy offspring But you know, for instance like the mouse lemur The the testes the females are very promiscuous and the males testes are like 10 times the size of what would Generally be a normal Size for that size because they're very very very small diminutive species But um, yeah, and or even uh, the southern right whale which also You know, they boast the largest testicles in the world each Silo of seed weighs 1,100 pounds But the females are polyandrous and they're highly promiscuous. So I'm just curious about That like to go a little bit further. I wonder if there's any Right in the be in the societal culture of these bats. What kind of promiscuity is there? What is the competition for males? How does it work in that like? Yeah Why would one mating take 12.7 hours or whatever? Why would it Hang in on to keep others away like what's going on? What competition is happening? That's my thought is that it's you know, you're kind of Honing in on that that one female to make sure that there is no other competition and That's interesting. Yeah, because there was even uh, when It was what it was a white-faced capuchin females that when they're in their early Early pregnancy, they'll have uh, they'll have sex with multiple males to confuse paternity That which cuts down and infanticide because that's a problem too. Sometimes in non-human primates, they'll you know Males will kill the offspring of others So it's good to confuse paternity and humans are lucky that way because we have concealed ovulation You don't know when I'm ovulating I don't Especially because you're in LA and I'm in Portland and so No idea I'll send you a postcard Hey, awesome. So good to hear from you. Okay Yeah, I love studies like this because very often people will say well What's the use of understanding this and I actually think that this is what we're getting at is the you know, there's the humor in You know our you know be this in butt head 12 year old mind Humor, uh, but at the same time there is a value in understanding what kind of Evolutionary forces have led to certain Certain formats and systems and the way that they work so Anyway, I want to talk about bloody glaciers now speaking You know how to get me hot and bothered Yeah Oh You've done. Hey, I want a snow cone. Sorry not this not this one. You don't want this snow cone You know, everybody says never eat yellow snow don't eat the red snow either it If the snow has a color that it's really not generally something you should be like I'm thirsty and make a snow cone with or you know, whatever. No um And we've seen for years. There are these images of these seemingly Red rivers down the faces of glaciers or you know these spots on snow-covered mountaintops that are inexplicably Bloody looking and it's what is that what's going on there the blood of their enemies kiki I was destroyed by my glacial nemesis well It's algae It's algae just just nice red algae that lives there And I love the name that this algae is sanguina neveloides sanguina for the bloody color sanguina um these researchers from cnrs uh with the french alternative energies and atomic energy commission meteo france in rey in the université Grenoble alps I've uh been looking at this organism Because not a lot of other researchers have in the past and so through many years. They've been like why What's going on there? What are they doing? How do they live there? How do this how does this algae survive? So in this particular study they used 3d electron microscopy to do subcellular imaging and they Were able to get a really good idea of the structure of these um algal cells and how they develop into communities and no no no They do not live in the ice crystals of the snow They live in the kind of melty water that surrounds those ice crystals and uh it is the uh living in that Just above freezing water that allows them to survive uh Their architecture uh makes sure that the membrane Is wrinkled there's lots of little tiny wrinkles kind of like the surface of the human brain So it increases the surface area and that allows it to get more access to nutritional ions in this nutrient poor environment Looking at it also the cool thing that they uh that they discovered in addition to oh look They don't live in the ice. They live in the water. Dun-dun-dun they also determined that these organisms Have uh, they are able to do photosynthesis they have The machinery the the cytoplasts to do photosynthesis however differently from normal plants that have all of those mitochondria and chloroplasts Set in one direction to pick up the sun because of the fact that ice and the snow is Diffracting and moving like the lights coming from all directions inside of the snow they're not Set up in one direction. So the particular part of the chloroplast the thylakoid body Uh that works is they're they're just all over the place. They're randomly They're randomly set up and it's totally different from uh from other Organisms and so this is a very surprising discovery Looking in this algae. Wow works Um, and they have found that when the snow melts It gets deposited into the soil it becomes it adapts to the different environment They don't understand what happens what it gets once it gets into the soil though So the cysts that have the chloroplasts that are photosynthesizing and taking they're living in this ice water They're they're there and then they shift to something else and transform to something else in the soil And this is the big question for like when as climate change is melting glaciers and snowcapped mountains What does this mean? What are they gonna do scary? Because red algae cannot be that great Usually like I've I've spent time in napal's florida and it was not you don't go swimming in that Right. So the the red algae blooms, right? You know, that's dangerous. It's toxic Yeah But that's interesting. It just reminds me of like, you know, I mean just life stages a tadpole to a frog like what what What are you gonna become? What's you gonna do next, huh? Yeah, what's your are you going to junior college? What's happening? What's where you going? What's up blood algae? Where you going next? I thought I'd start a podcast and then I'd start doing stand-up, but uh, I don't know Oh My gosh every time I hear somebody say I'm gonna start a podcast I go oh good for you. That's great. That's great. Yeah Oh, let's move forward to I think of my last story of the the first part of the show here I'm gonna just angry flies. Yeah angry lady flies. It's not just Flies it's angry female flies Can't I would Why would female flies get mad? What is going on that female flies get angrier than male flies and seem to have sustained aggression persistent aggression Compared to other flies. Well researchers just published their study from the california institute of technology Uh That I find Really interesting. They had an I they had an idea. This is now in elife. So this is actually open source. So you can Take a look at this study yourself if you want to go look at all the data that they discovered they had an original Hypothesis, which was that there were these two cell types and they thought that they worked together to create aggression And so they were like, all right Let's look at these different cell types and see how they work together and so They separated female flies by a barrier and then they like stimulated these particular cell types To make the flies aggressive or angry for like 30 seconds and then They separated the flies for different periods of time and then remove the barrier and then let the flies Go at it And they found that one cell type it's called alpig alpg It contributes to persistent aggression and when these cells were activated the flies would Get angry and headbutt and push other flies around for up to 10 minutes To be like, I I'm not done here. I gotta get a bit of keep angry. Then they had another l cell type called PC 1d and they that also isn't involved in the aggression, but it didn't cause that persistent aggression And it also didn't really influence whether alpig Made the persistent aggression happen um They also saw that neither of these once they were stimulated continued to show persistent neuronal activity It was like they were stimulated and then they stopped but something else was going on and kept The persistent aggression going and so they were like, what is going on here? and um So they think that there are other factors involved that there are neuromodulators the effects of neurons downstream That there might be another circuit involved, but there's a big question now because You'd normally think if the aggression is persistent that The neuronal firing is persistent and that is you know, it's like bang bang bang keep going bang bang bang keep going and the neurons telling The fly brain to continue whatever it's doing But it's not so Again, why are we funding fly research about how female flies get mad at each other and push each other around well We want to know about why people get into I don't know road rage issues and Why why do we have aggression? Why do we? Get angry and why is it hard for us to push it off? Not everyone can breathe it off or shake it off so easily and why is it that some people can and some people can't Why are some psychiatric disorders? More aggressive than others. What's happening in the cells that make that happen? Yeah That is fascinating. I really do think that um, you know a lot of people have I don't know if you heard that but that was reason expressing her disdain for uh, the angry flies. No, but uh You just a fly. It's not me. Not a pug But just you know, I think people people have Bad days and you know, what what exactly contributes to that and what what what is the what is the snapping point? and what Creates a snapping point that that is persistent like you can't let you can't breathe it off. You can't Meditate it away. You can't you know hug it out where you're just you I think a lot of people write especially right now As I'm watching a lot of people in the verge of losing their homes or have lost their livelihood You know, I think there is this there's I worry about folks. Um, I know I was listening to a Real harp real uplifting. I was listening to npr earlier today and they were talking about yes There's been another uptick in suicide yet again. You know what I mean? It was just like You know But but I think that's this is important. This is why you know, I think and also like you said Persistent is the key word because everyone gets angry everyone has a moment where you're like And then you let it go. It's that sustained level of anger that That means that it bleeds over to other parts of your life other people That's the scary part, right? Yeah, and well I don't think that uh, You know, I don't ever want this to lead to like a pill Or a treat, you know, they like you never get angry I would like it to always come. Yeah, no aggression ever You know nothing like that, but it's in cases of Like psychiatric disorders that do make people more aggressive. How can we yeah treat Treat disorders or you know for people who want to be less aggressive And therapy's not working or what up, you know, whatever What can what can we do and how will this potentially help us understand The basics Of like the neuronal signaling behind Kiki, I have an idea. I want to take these flies. Yeah, okay. Let me know. What are we doing? I think these flies you need to throw them into late-stage capitalism and just see how that how that goes because I think that's I think that's I I think that I mean honestly like if anything I think systematic change is uh key, but I can't do that Ladyflies this prime egg laying territory on this ripe banana It's only going to the highest bidder who can pay all in cash You know, it's only for those of you who've maybe had a uh, you know an exit event Oh That'll create a sustained Yeah, the little flies Yeah Happy angry little lady flies I would watch that I would absolutely watch that show a little stop motion action Reclamation that would actually be you know reminds me of what was oh beetle juice remember And the fly in beetle juice In one that when he eats the fly when he grabs it and he yeah Yeah, wait no is he he is the fly right he was the fly, but then I think he does kills it later. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He's like a yeah Uh, maybe they're all just Maybe it's just beetle juice Don't say it three times or we're really in trouble. Okay. Although I hear it's coming back I hear there's this not a second one coming Which I'm really excited about. Oh, that's great. Okay Yeah, put that on your little radar. I mean it might take A really like I who knows who knows what oh my god I want to play Miss Argentina. I would love to She passed away. She was my favorite character. I know I was like oh man. I would love to pay homage Well, I hope that there's a producer out there who says you'll be perfect All right, let's go from Angry female flies who can't control their aggression because researchers messed with their minds to aging lady chimps Aging lady chimps. So yeah, uh, tell me some stories. I'm excited Okay, so one thing that's really unique to humans or so we thought was very unique to humans is this Lovely old thing called menopause and menopause, you know effects women It's basically is post reproductive years. It's a time. It's a transitional time and it's becoming thank goodness It's getting a little bit more scientific research because it's one of those Because it's not male centric and it's not super sexy It doesn't get the same amount of research and attention and funding. Yeah, uh to understand what happens And so uh, but one of the things that we've thought for the longest time is humans are pretty much the only species that goes through menopause We have discovered that orca Females also go through menopause, which is pretty amazing, right? And we talked about orcas last time I was here probably explains a lot about that female orcas behavior But anyway, seriously, and she's a younger one Like right well like that's a thing like I was like could she be a man like she's like grandma That's like screw all y'all. Um She actually was pregnant when she started it But anyways, uh, but no female orcas, but they new research and it's it's very new and it's still Kind of in its fledgling days of a chimp and she's affectionately called ma rainy Like the singer and she um, where is this? Yeah, these chimps survive post you know reproductive years and one of the theories that we have for uh, what makes Human mothers such great, you know mothers because our our babies are very what we call altrucial There's precocial infants those infants that immediately from birth can walk or grab on or you know can kind of at least Sort of hack it, you know, they don't have to You know, they don't have to be held and suckled immediately Or not suckled but held and you know sort of doted on But we have very altrucial uh infants that are they're very needy and so having a A grandmother having your mother Be post, you know reproductive years helping you out would be a huge help Huge huge help a lot of you know multi-generational families living together allows Mom to be able to you know fend for herself get food elsewhere And grandma can help with child rearing and it looks like chimps might have the same Opportunities and so a lot of chimps, you know, can live into their late 60s 70s ma rainy a 68 year old female chimp In the wild. Yeah, I believe so. Where is she hold on? Is she let me double check Unfortunately, this is why I'm so frustrated. Um, it's got a paywall I was working for me at first and now it won't let me see it So you might be able to see better than I do. Yeah, I'm gonna keep looking through this and see if I can uh, It doesn't specifically say but they're talking about east african chimps in the wild. So I believe it is in the wild That's why that's why this is also again very impressive that they've lived this long because chimpanzees Can be can they get a bad rap for being very violent because they can be very violent We'll get to that in a minute when we talk more about bonobos the more amorous ape But chimps, uh, you know Sometimes don't have the best endings and so it's really impressive that these these females Can live that long and what does that necessarily mean for the beginning of benapause? For our own species because chimps and bonobos are our closest genetic relatives We share a common ancestor them with them roughly six million years ago And then they split off on their evolutionary trajectories separately at the formation of the congo river system two million years ago Chimps were on one side bonobos were on the other That's why you can only find bonobos in democratic republic of congo Wow So just yeah separated by a river a river system a big ass river. Yeah Yeah, that's the surmai. Yeah, and then of course, you know, we we talked about a little bit about This is why I love these studies that seem kind of like what's the big deal? It's like but this is we don't want to completely look at primates as these Primates as models for our behavior because we have to remember They've been there on their own evolutionary trajectory from when we split off, right six million years ago and and Culture is far more a cultural evolution is far faster than biological evolution. So their behavior now might be New in the past 40 years because of like resource availability changing or you know, uh, sometimes I think I don't know if I talked about sepolski on the last time I was on I always talk about him Yeah, the plasticity of primate behavior sometimes something bad will happen that will change the course of history, but Yeah, it'll be interesting to hear and see more of this research coming out about what this means for for chimps And if they have grand I mean they do have grandparents grandmothers will Um interact with their grandchildren. Um in in chimps. So um, but The problem is chimps are um Patural locals so the females disperse So there's not as much of an opportunity as what you would see In like say bonobos where they mostly are both there That's really interesting because I think for uh, and they go back and visit Yeah, a lot of uh species. It's the males that disperse as opposed to the females. So it's That it's always very interesting So that's why chimps have very strong the males have this very strong Sort of bond and make some exceptionally dangerous because they all know each other and there's like forming coalitions and having coos The baboons we talked about last time supposed to use baboons. They are natural local So they're an example of males dispersing and joining groups. But yeah in in the case of chimps. It's the males that um That stick around And so these females who are They're reproductively active for a large portion of their lives the majority of their lives, but they are they have menopause and I mean, I guess the question is So fascinating the hormonal changes how much of their lives are affected by those hormonal changes Like our lives are affected by the hormone changes that occur at puberty and at uh You know every month um at menopause and then after you know, how does that change as opposed to being Grandmothers that are assisting and just there with like you said the grandmother hypothesis. How does that? uh How does that really influence the group survival and how does it maintain? Cohesiveness among the females who are within the group or get invited into the group for mates Yeah, I mean I again this is going to be really interesting because I've just talked to amy perish who studies bonobos about About some of the dynamic there in particular with older females in in bonobos But I would love to know more about how chimps are if these older female chimps are being treated by Those in group and those joining the group I think that would be fascinating to see if there's a level of respect because again like females female chimps Don't have it as good as female bonobos. Yeah, it really can it can be rough So, um, I I don't know. It's something that I would I can't wait to hear more research And also do they get hot flashes? I want to know I want to know I want to know How you're feeling I know Tell me how you spend your nights God How many hot flashes Do they do hormone replacement therapy? I don't know Maybe they're self medicating. We don't know these things. I mean I mean So much Yeah, but this is this is fascinating I mean comparing and contrasting against different species like bonobos like humans like And then within different populations of chimpanzees because there are different traits in different chimpanzees who have adapted To different regions, right? So there are there are some chimpanzees that are very violent and very male dominated and other chimpanzees That are a bit more social Even though that violence is still in there. Yeah, and even yeah, there's individual differences and you know, so it's yeah fascinating Yeah, I mean No, I mean it is widely just Widely distributed as humans. So it's interesting because like, you know We talked a little bit about macaques last time like, you know, the most widely second most widely distributed primal on earth is macaques They are everywhere, you know, um, there's one right behind me I can't get him to leave go home feed or but um, yeah, no teddy That's what I tell him when I'm off screen. That's me a ted but no, the yeah, there there is a lot of um variation but Yeah, with humans, of course, there's so much variation between you know with In terms of individuality and stuff like that But we see that too, you know with chimps and especially like when you see them in captivity It's why captive versus wild studies are are important to To remember that we we we still I always think it's interesting like Especially in captive or those that just know they're always being watched, you know You always behave differently when you know, you're being watched you Oh, I mean and you it would be weird for us to think that animals don't know that right that they're not feeling Why won't she go away go home? I think this is a great point because in ecosystems There's multiple studies many many studies going back years and years that show that birds squirrels Chimps all sorts of animals aren't just paying attention to themselves and the food they want They're paying attention to the environment around them and they know If somebody's there like it's really hard for these nature documentarians to create a You know one of their hides in the wild hunters also, you know You have to create a spot that is not noticeable that you get into and sometimes you have to be there for days or weeks And hide your smell hide everything about your presence so that the animal doesn't know that you're there So for a lot of these wild studies in in captivity for sure If we're considering that these animals are any We're close to us in Cognitive abilities of awareness of environment. Yeah, he goes like of course they know I sit there and they throw poo at you at the window at the zoo. They're like there goes I don't need that go away. Yeah And I mean like you you hit the nail on the head in terms of I mean we talk about hunters, but like What's the difference between a hunter and a researcher? You know time usually and time with that individual, you know Like that was a that was a big thing about lewis leaky when he lewis leaky was a famous paleoanthropologist who decided he wanted to Have the great ape study. So he determined in the late basically Oh my god, my brain is dead in late 50s early 60s to send out three women In in particular because he thought women were were patient enough To win over these great apes that men were just too impatient And um, and that's why he sent out jane goodall Diane fossey and baruta galtacos to to study chimps arangs and mountain gorillas But you know, again, it took a long time to win over and and who's to say that you're not You know, I used to joke that my pet I had a pet rabbit for 10 years And I used to joke that at every I felt like at any moment. She was afraid. I was going to eat her She was always Amped you know for 10 years. I think she was stressed that I was going to eat her like this was the day I'm going to eat her You know what I mean? Like she never seemed chill like raisin looks like I mean I tell raisin I tell her every day like today's the day. I'm not going to eat you. You're welcome But tomorrow might be different, you know, it might be different who knows So it is super weirdly species centric of us to think that one that we are That all these behaviors that we're looking at at primates and thinking that like they're like us It's like, you know, we've been around a drop in the geological time We're like them. But also the fact that you know, we're we're influencing their behavior too. So Absolutely And how do we not and I think that's one of the big questions, especially when we've got them in zoos or in You know artificial habitats. How do we How do we watch them? How do we do ethological studies without influencing them? It's still not real and then in the wild. How do we, you know Jane Goodall, Diane Fonsi, they all got to know their subjects and how come you can say that didn't influence stuff. So Yeah, oh humans and science and our wild Yeah Do you want to know more about bonobos or do you want to move? Yeah, we can say again to the bonobos from the chimps or goes Yeah, so like I mentioned our closest genetic relatives are chimpanzees and bonobos We share about 99 percent of our DNA with them And we split off six million years ago from a common ancestor with the two of them and then they split two million years ago And bonobos, so I don't know. Can I say the f word if I can't that's totally fine But I I generally say it sometimes I can well here. Okay, so chimps are known for fighting it out Whereas bonobos are known for fornicating it out. I'll I'll fork it out. They fork it out. Yes. That's great. Great Yeah, that is how they deal with uh all tension like say for instance, there's a banana on the ground to chimps see it They'll look at the banana. They'll look at each other Their teeth look back down to the banana look at each other and fight to the death And so one of them ultimately expires the other one grabs the banana and runs off two bonobos Look at this banana. They look down at the banana They look at each other opportunity Yeah, they look down at yeah exactly Exactly like I I know where I'm gonna put that banana Let's make this real kinky But yeah, that's what they dare like, you know, like I'm I'll show you how to peel banana with okay But yes that so they make love every which way from sunday and it's not just males and females Females will do a thing called gg rubbing which is primate scissoring and then and then males will do sword fights or wait Wait, wait, wait, wait. Wait. Is it really? Gg rubbing that's this that's not the scientific term. You just they call it gg rubbing genital genital rubbing Oh, I don't know if you know this but I wrote the chapter on copulatory postures of non-human primates and the encyclopedia of primatology I love you even more right now I honestly don't know I I do know why they asked me but I don't study this kiki and they're like natalia Right this I feel like this was a gag thing too. I'm like I studied like For like the distribute distribution of spider monkeys and forest fragments and they're like would you please do monkey sex positions? Thank you. Please and thank you. Bye. And they also had me do intro mission powder Intro mission pattern, which is how many licks it gets to the center of the tootsie roll pop Basically like how many strokes to get to yeah, and I'm like why me? why the point being Because you are able to discuss this So well, thank you. I wasn't allowed to use the term reverse cowgirl and I'm still mad about it Because it really was the description but yeah, so so Yeah females will do gg rubbing and it and and amy parish I talked to her this summer. I did this great interview and she basically said yeah females will oftentimes prefer mating with other females because it's a guaranteed Getting to the finish line Um males will do a thing called penis fencing or it's basically sword fights And they do a thing where they rub their genitals on each other's butts. It's you know their thing but that's these are ways that they diffuse tension and it's kind of a promiscuous horde and uh, there's not a lot of violence in bonobos within group. However, this is the deal chimpanzees which again are They bonobos used to be called pygmy chimpanzees. They they share very very closely related chimpanzees will do patrols around their territory and if they see other groups of males They will go they will fight to the death and oftentimes will kill Outside members like people they do not know if they see a lone male forget it Forget it. It is not good. Uh, yeah, it's ugly. Well, this is a really cool study So that was like a lead up to this really neat study, which again, this is Still It's early stages. There's not a lot of uh, the bonobos are only found in democratic republic of congo So and that area has which is also a war torn region and politically a lot of unrest and So they are embattled. Yeah Yeah, I I did my honors thesis on colton mining and and gorillas that were affected by, you know charcoal harvesting and colton mining and cobalt mining, which is a big problem, but bonobos They found on multiple. I think it was 92 Instances they observed one group of bonobos Coming into contact with another group. But at first they, you know Vocalized and chirped at each other and were kind of showing anger displays, but within a few minutes they were chill Absolutely chill and and like, you know hung out and cooperated with each other. I don't know how many Copulations took place. I don't know if it was devolved into that, but they were they were cool with each other and it was almost like again Researchers are looking at this as maybe a potential to better understand how human societies came together, you know, because obviously we went from being Small bands and tribes to state level society at a certain point People saw the benefit of hey, if we stick together that means protection. That means if you grow barley, I'll grow Potatoes you grow, you know what I mean? We can all right have a balanced somewhat balanced diet That's on how I work together. Yeah. Yeah, so it's it's really what was it margo kidder? And was it or you was it margo? No, free to be you and me. Who did that one? Was that I don't know Who did that one? It was it was it was a song right? Yeah, it was a whole tv show It was a special from my youth that I remember it was all about everyone being good to each other marlo thomas Marlo thomas. Thank you very much. Yes. No, I remember wait was that Were they holding hands in a field or something am I crazy? They did and then they had a parachute and they were like running under the parachute and yes I remember that. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes, anyway. Oh, that's funny. Oh my god Yeah, oh wow That's taken it back a couple of days But I think I feel like, you know, that's the kind of uh, you know the friendship the collaboration the How we can work together I can be me you can be you we can all do this together Yeah, in a friendly way as opposed to the uh historical It it's truth, but it's also a bit of mythology of just the absolute aggression of chimpanzees. Yeah, right Because there's a lot of cooperation Yeah There's a lot of there has to be a lot of cooperation. So So there's bonobos Yeah, they're nice to each other. The females are in charge and Um What does this mean we should do now? Yes. So, yeah, let me talk about that's Let me talk a bit a little bit about the female dominance of bonobos So I used to be on dating apps and I men would always see oh, you're a primatologist and then I you know They want to say oh bonobos and I'd be like, yeah, but you should know one thing They were on the show and uh, you know In fact, one of one of my favorite things that I learned is that uh Moms that are higher up on the ranks of of the bonobos will help Will play wing woman to their sons trying to get them laid by a higher ranking female I mean like it's really, you know, so because like it's like the ultimate helicopter parent Yes, yes, I think Yes No, but that was there was a movie with Jennifer. What's her name? Lawrence that just came out like a while ago Hire her at date their their son and I mean this is basically bonobo culture Yes Yes, well, no, so kiki. I just this is really interesting. So I posted on I posted on facebook About this about I was gonna do this like interview about bonobos and I was like, what is your favorite? Human matriarchy And I knew it was kind of a trick question because I knew some would say there's never been one and I Generally just agree Because also like, you know, some of the ways they were trying to negate whether there's been a matriarchy It's because they're like they were they I think people define a patriarchy Or power as a show of force and there's so many ways to to wield power like for instance bonobo females It's a great example. They wield power in in mates mate choice getting Their son laid by you know, jennifer lorence. I mean look Could you imagine Come on darling darling. Come here. I've got I want you to meet my son. I want you to meet my son Really good boy. He's great. It's bobo. He's uh Bobo get over here. Don't come on bobo. Come on. Okay. If there are any video editors out there right now I need a super cut of bonobos in this movie because this would be hilarious I need I need the trailer super cut. It would be brilliant Mom I don't want it. I don't want a mom But she's kind of nice than jennifer lorence. They then it like turns into a heartwarming story about their Their interspecies mingling, but they ultimately decide it's not right And it's not right. They need to move on and they all need to grow as individuals Oh my god, but no, so so I posted on facebook And one of my favorite like push backs was I called bono I I referred to bonobos being a matriarchy and then I had one male in particular that was like Well, I wouldn't call them a true matriarchy because there are dominant or I wouldn't call them female dominant because there are dominant males and There are Just because you have one like doesn't it mean that you can't have the other and it doesn't right that one is more So yeah, but this is the deal the dominant male is based. It's based on his mother It comes down to who his mom is So it's like at the end of the day even though there is a dominant male It still comes down to the mom So I was just like I I don't know what else to tell you dude, but yeah Yeah, you just look kind of silly So yeah, I did a bonobo nerd night in la this summer and that was yeah But jennifer laurence now I need to now I need to I'm working on a science comedy special called survival of the filthiest and I think I think we need to Thank you. Thank you. So imagine this situation And But just her beautiful. Yeah, like that'd be oh my god, so good That would yeah, I'd watch that movie I would I mean at least two and a half minute trailer That'd be perfect I think it'd be great I think one of the things with bonobos and chimpanzees is that Like you mentioned we just put so many of our own Anthropomorphized Thoughts ideals everything onto them and we're like dividing them also into these like categories bonobos are like this Chimpanzees are like this. This is the way it works about you know When in reality, there's really so much that we still have to learn about their cultures And how they deal in different situations and you know Can we even protect them in the wild? I want to I want to also. Hey everybody Let's not let's not strip mine and who needs who needs diamonds from mines and stuff we can make them ourselves using technology and Forests are nice They're so look at mine Forest is beautiful although dark and scary and probably full of witches It's very joseph conrad. I feel like it's very hard of darkness like I know I Wanted to bring a witchy look. Um, do you have a joseph conrad? Let's talk about women Hunting yes babes with spears sassy sisters. Yeah slaying Sloths It's a lot of alliteration. Yeah, so actually I'm going to shout out to my good friends. Dr. Kara Ackabock and Dr. Sarah Lacey two biological anthropologists wrote this article for Scientific American, but uh, both of uh, Sarah Lacey is a neanderthal expert as is Kara I think she knows a metric crap 10 about them too, but she does a lot of exercise looking at the development of Um, uh, well just exercise in in women and how women are actually built to be amazing athletes But this article it's about what is it called hold on one second I had it open and then when I closed everything kiki everyone The theory that men evolved a yes and women evolved together So yes, the whole yeah men the hunter women the gatherer is a bunch of uh antiquated bs and a lot of times we have to remember who who did the science, right so And sometimes I have to say who did the science? Because a lot of time quote. Yeah, right. It's all a supposing. Yes. Yeah, and um A lot of research has been done about uh, even your female strength about even the article talks about How women have a lot more of the slow twitch muscles versus the fast twitch muscles that men have So that means we're great at endurance running So one of the things that um when the book that they talk about uh when it came out man the hunter and and they had all these sort of conferences about it uh and really sort of pushing this idea that men are the that men were built to hunt and that also um The rise of hunting led to a lot of uh Sort of adaptations that have carried through like language that because they were hunting that may needed to communicate so they kind of you know given a Round of applause for these men hunting uh that there's all these genetic adaptations to uh this new sort of motive of You know behavior really hunting in groups and um we're sort of discrediting or discounting women and their Contribution to these sorts of um leaps and bounds for human evolution. And so what we're looking at now is uh just The way humans are built, you know and this idea they they got trolled pretty hard from this article because they also talked about what gender and sex is because uh And neither are the same and neither are binary which right might upset some folks But it's it is what it is But they talk yes, we we talk about that all the time on the show. So yes, but I am I'm I'm sorry to hear they were trolled as a response to talking about science These two biologically Right, these two women are so ballsy and badass that they're they're fine But man, oh man, did they get a lot of flak? But yeah, we talk about the thing is we hear about testosterone being like the thing for working out and the thing for exercise and fitness And here they go through all the benefits of estrogen, you know, they talk about uh, well Sort of more things that are associated with with females Which is you know influences breast growth and stimulates milk production But it also goes through like, you know the fine motor skills and it helps with you know Making sure our memory is maintained. Even if there's uh, what is it? Oh, yeah improves outcomes of post traumatic brain injury enhances growth of development of neurons. Um And then also hold on this is what my my old eyes are like. I need readers Am I not wearing glasses right now? Yes, but it also regulates the immune system a lot of very very important things it also influences men too because you know We probably you're the watchers of your show know this or listeners that Estrogen and testosterone are not male and female hormones. We have both At different levels and that and those levels vary from individual to individual some have some Those that identify as women have more estrogen than those that you know other folks that identify as female So it's and some have more testosterone, but this particular article also touched on the idea that um, usually in a species when we um when we look at Social systems and reproductive strategies looking at the size differences between males and females our sexual dimorphism is usually a big indicator of how They had narrating systems were like say for instance in chimpanzees And gorillas males are a lot bigger than the females Gorillas are a great example. They're huge and so there's a lot of male male competition But in humans, we're pretty darn close We you know, we might think that men are a lot bigger than us, but it's it's it's not the case not at all and so there are You know a lot of arguments to be made that women are just as capable and we're doing hunting There are a lot of societies also they bring up the fact that the I knew which is a Culture in japan the same time the whole man the hunter thing was coming out in the late 60s There was a watson abbey I forget his first name, but um, he was studying the I knew and that women were doing tons of hunting and hunting with dogs You know and so the this research was ignored because it didn't fit their narrative and that's a problem And that's why we need diversity in science More voices that are not historical narratives our history is history is written by the quote-unquote winners but I would say losers Yeah Why have you written that thing? What's happening there? But it it is that it's not that what's trying to come out right now is a politically correct feminist agenda because that's part of like, you know What they say here, you know, it's like the trolls are saying that and That's not what this is. It's trying to balance the research because historically The questions have been biased the people doing the research have been biased the methods have been biased the samples have been biased It hasn't taken these things into account. I mean the idea that to this day men have Less of an understanding that they can get breast cancer Then women Is a disservice the fact that like women and uh our birth control or our sexual health has been Minimized that's a disservice. Whereas men have viagra and you know, there are all sorts of places that we can look at all of these issues You know and I don't know I I studied biology I as an undergrad and Along the way, I just it's one of those things that you learn that it's like this the idea of Sticking things in categories and boxes. It is so hard Because it doesn't really ever work for everyone. Yeah, it absolutely you're absolutely right and it's It does a disservice to so many Well fields of science, but also just you know, just day to day life when you compartmentalize too much I mean it helps and just getting through your day. Sometimes I get that but you know, what I have sad and frustrating existence right to have things in boxes that you can't Open your mind and think that oh, yeah, and that's another thing that I think a lot of these boxes should have like Be one box and maybe they should be more box like yeah, maybe it shouldn't out be a box at all It's an octagon It's an octopus Uh, but yeah, no, I was gonna say that I'm sorry You know, but I would without yeah, I was just gonna say at this I mean at this point we've seen you know, it was the world wars women stepped up rosy the riveter is iconic as a woman stepping into industrial labor um, we have now Archaeological evidence of female viking warriors. We have you know that people finally looked at Makes no more sense and you know, there's Yeah I mean and a lot of times these burial sites You know historically males and females were Sort of buried the same way and so it's hard to even tell like what grave goods go with who and they've kind of Because of ancient dna. I've found out oops. Yeah, that's how you discover. Okay These great goods weren't all for dudes, you know, so yeah, that's I mean, you know, maybe leaky was on to something though, you know, the women they were patient because we've always been the hunters Yes, and the go the distance Go the distance we go the disc. Yeah, we were patient and we're not we're not giving up Yeah, um, oh, I wanted to point out one cool thing because this is a great fact and it brings back to the chimps is that Um, uh, jill preets who is a uh Primatologist dear friend She her site in senegal. She studies chimpanzees and you know, we hear for years at chimpanzees It's always the males that are doing these group hunts and you know the males the males the males doing these hunts And then it turns out that she actually found at her site that females were not only hunting. They were using sticks They were using tools to stab bush babies In trees, so yeah Oh, yeah, so yeah, here you've got some great attributes of women to make an excellent hunter I like the wider pelvis might be great for carrying things because it's always like a child But I'm like, I don't know. I think that's always great on her hip I I swear every time I've moved or had to pick up heavy things My hip bones are a great place to set those boxes Heck, yeah Yeah, I think they're There are different body types. There are different effects of hormones At different levels depending on genetics and depending on these things But when we stereotype We We limit our ability to be the best that humanity can be Yeah Science is only going to be better with more questions more, you know, you're going to get different answers if you have different questions, right? Like, yeah, I mean that's And the same perspectives over and over like, you know, no, no, it's it's boring Yeah No, come on That's all I want from science the same people say the same things over and over again I mean, that's that's why I like doing this show every week Kiki that's called religion Oops, sorry There's nothing wrong with religion, but but it's it's static. It stays, right? Yeah, so it moves Yeah, no, we we advance we open we yeah I don't try to put anyone down I would like to just state things and be okay with the fact that We gain new knowledge and the textbooks that you went to college with I went to college They've been rewritten. There are new things in those textbooks now. They're Everything is advancing. That's amazing. Let's share in Florida Those textbooks. Yeah, they need a rewrite Oh Okay, we're gonna stay out of Florida because it's probably gonna be underwater soon, but let's talk about panama Panama, uh I can't sing but that's my van Halen. Um, yes. So I as you heard earlier. I love me some panama and um Yeah, they just had a coup for their conservation in panama because there was a company a canadian mining company that basically was The president cut a deal allowing them uh to Mine there for I believe it was 20 years and then an ability to re-up and they would infuse panama with like $375 million, but it was going to destroy and a big portion of this area and also affect the groundwater And panamanians were like hell no hell no hell no and it was starting to affect the Upcoming election cycle and they're like, no, no, no, no. We're not like this. No. No, we don't we don't want this which is it, you know, it's great because like panamanians, I think This is the first time they've well not the first time. I mean, there there's been lots of protests in the past for You know, kind of more regional Issues, but this is a huge showing and a lot of panamanians that I've talked to are really heartened by this because they haven't seen a showing like this, right? and so Everybody came together panama is one of the most diverse. I'm sorry, biodiverse Countries in the world. It's got over 10,000. I think hold on. I wrote it down, but it's got like But you're not wearing your glasses. I know i know my must hold on Here's my mustache must have glasses and a mustache read this number accurately With over 10,000 plant species more than 200 mammal species and over 900 indigenous bird species They have a lot of endemic wildlife that is insane. I like I said, I work there. I love that country and there's It's a small ish country, but lots of different ecosystems, you know, you got the canal zone You got the dairy and region which is thick thick jungle and then you got the tropical dry forest You got cloud forest up in the north and bokeh day and they yeah again a big showing and so This is kind of a big day for for panama or big week Hold on. Let me I also close that article so i'm to open it back up because I'm a lady that had to start my computer again You did yes, I just it was a good plan though It was it needed to happen. I was glitchy. You don't want a glitchy glitchy lady um Yeah, it's called the And by the way, it's copper mining. Um, so like I talked earlier about like colton and cobalt mining, which uh All most of the world's I think it's like 80 of the world's Colton is in africa and 80 percent of that colton is in drc And you know panama has a lot of copper as does peru and now This is awesome indigenous Folks in peru and peru and panama are like nah. No, no, no, we're not doing this um, we see we see what you're doing and um Oops, sorry that might have been loud. Um, no, it was like, you know an added musical note. It was great It was yeah, thank you. Sorry It's for for the excitement. Oh, yeah, I can show you emphasis and fossils I can't I can't really point but um So the region it was gonna be a map of peru, but we have a map of panama on the screen right now for people who are watching So I you see that thing that looks like an elephant's foot going out into the pacific ocean That's where I worked in that the white dot that's in the corner on the right the like yes That's where I worked that area, but where the mine is is um that that was my world God, I love it. Oh, I miss it. Oh, what a beautiful beautiful place in the world I was trying to buy property there so I could open a field station Um, still still dreaming But the mine was going to be if you pan out a little bit zoom out and then it's um It's it's it's more in the cologne area. So if you go back towards panama city, it's on the atlantic side Like in that long, yeah Yeah, that area. So, um Yeah, and that's you know, when you're threatening groundwater, it's it's it's not it's not okay And then there's a lot of also problems going on with like the panama canal is really really low right now um So they're dealing with their own stuff with having a limited amount of of ships that can go through um Yeah, and I know that even in nicaragua there was um A proposal to to to do a panama canal type thing but through lago nicaragua Which I've I've done field work in on yeah, I I think that I don't know if there's anything happening there I haven't heard anything Fascinating, but it sounds I mean that sounds like a poor idea, but yeah, I mean great for trade But poor for the country for the ecosystems. Um Generally, oh I should note though the cool thing about the canal zone is you would think That it messed up the ecosystems because it's like the dmz because it's like this weird sort of like like liminal space between urban and The canal it's got this really weird rich biodiversity in the canal. It's really neat It's kind of wild. Yeah, uh, it's like it's like the dmz in north korea where you know, there's a lot of interesting Biodiversity there because like nobody goes there, you know like certain areas. It's just not well traveled by humans A man a plan of panama all thank you I'm seeing some of the comments. I've laughed at your comments. I haven't always been engaged because I don't want to interrupt But that thank you Yeah, I I love panama. It's it's a if you ever get a chance to go it is absolutely spectacular And I yeah, I love that country and I'm glad that they're They're shutting down this Silly copy of alpha mine and and I think this is one of those You know the efforts where we have to applaud the people Indigenous people specifically, uh, you know people Who have historically been just erased and not included in votes not included in plans their lands their livelihoods their their societies Bulldozed erased In the name of banana plantations or you know, whatever else it was that, you know Water rights, you know by corporations that are you know purchasing these things around the country around the world and You know, I mean, I fully think that it's this this local Activism that's going to help heal what we've destroyed Yeah, and there's been a lot of that and specifically in panama with indigenous the kuna and the guna um They actually I think sailed a ship To scotland for one of their one of the climate summits like it was pretty darn cool. Yeah. Yeah so um, yeah, they've made really cool strides and um Yeah, take no guff take no guff create the world that we want to create and I don't know. Yeah, I This is cool. Thank you for bringing this story. I appreciate it. It's pretty awesome People winning Yeah It was going on I mean I I felt like I didn't maybe give it the fair shake that it deserved But it's been going on for several weeks It was in october where they first made this uh ruling and it kind of put the President in a pretty bad light, you know, kind of like he was screwing over his people for a good Deal, you know, and this was with canada too. I feel like this is the most impolite thing can Well, actually, no canada's done some terrible things. What am I saying? It's one of the more Yeah, canada has great pr these days actually is they really do I love my canadian audience though. Hello I do too But like but like, you know, just because I don't like some of the things they've done I mean, I don't like a lot of what our country's done. Dear lord. Are you kidding? Oh god. No but just like, you know When it comes to mining or indigenous youth, you know I mean, I okay, so just Little tangent, but for just one moment like people are like, let's go to space and put people in space I do all this stuff in space and I'm like, yeah, I don't know about the people living in space and all that kind of stuff, but asteroid mining uh finding resources not on our planet not on Rocky bodies that uh that That support life You know, why go to the bottom of our oceans and destroy Ecosystems that have been, you know left alone where we really need our oceans for survival Why continue to strip mine? Why continue to mine our planet when we potentially have the technology to go off planet and Be able to bring some of those resources back um, yeah Yeah, I think that would be great. I don't know I don't know. I mean just like, you know Bomb up the drop up drop them in What is uh, like that curiosity? What was that that uh the Parachute crane thing they did but anyway, what is it? Oh, what does an asteroid do after working out? what Takes a meteor shower Sorry No, but I like that idea. I like any idea that involves not destroying a part of the world that Yeah, was perfectly fine the way it is also just use solar power power, you know, and I mean like I don't know And also the the built to break obsolescence You know I'm done with it End stage capitalism you said it earlier Come on. Where's my Maytag man? My friend What the Maytag man What? Yeah, it's mark divine. Oh my god. I knew this guy. I've known him for years I haven't seen him in a while, but he I this the if you this is a small tangent, but if you ever we're doing it Yeah, if you've ever been down on your luck and I I am going through that time right now Where I'm just like, where is my life going? I am flailing. I am just trying to get by and He I remember I saw him. It was like 2001 2002. He was I went to over I was over You know, he was roommates with my friend and he was like laying in bed or like watching tv like we like popped it and said Hey, hey mark. How's it going? He's like, uh I just I can't find work. I think he was waiting tables or something. He was just like, I don't know what to do and I'm just like I I don't you know, I'm like done. I'm done. I give up and then like the next day he booked the Maytag man Which was like this huge campaign He like I know he was only the Maytag man. I think for two years and now they have this new guy I don't like that new guy, but yeah He's not as good as your friend that's not mark was great But it was it was like but it was one of those moments where I was like if it could happen to You know what I mean like down on his luck like what am I doing like eating top ramen? Yeah Hmm. I love that. You're like, yeah, he's like I'm at the end I'm the Maytag man. There you go Ma'am, can I see your washer? I'd like I'd like to fix your agitator, please This is this week in science. Oh my gosh, we've been having so much fun here if you've just tuned in I've been here for a while. I hope you've realized what show you're watching I hope that even you're enjoying the show if you want to help us grow get a friend to subscribe Tell your friends today All about this week in science. Give them links. Send us send them to our website Head over there right now. We have our 2024 Calendars that Blair has made available through zazzle so you can go click on the zazzle link There's also a link. I think I don't know. I'm working on it. The website is Defeating me recently, but if you click Uh, and there was a newsletter that actually went out with a link to the zazzle So you can buy the 2024 twist calendar that Blair has hand drawn lovingly during her time away with her new bebe so Get your year started With some good planning and with twist Go get it. That's right. And if you want to support us on patreon You can also click on the patreon link at twist.org and choose your level of support $10 and more a month and we will thank you by name at the end of the show and I do all the reading myself as fast as I can Without uh, you know Tongue tying a little bit It's all your support that allows this to happen. So thank you for your support All right, I have uh, I mean I have two more stories, but I have one more story I don't know. We've been on this for a little while, but I this story for me is really The thing I want to talk about which I think it's really awesome And I think it It has impacts I like impacts Yes across the world of neuroscience and the way our nervous system works However, the study was not on humans. It was on worms So Big important implications for people. No, it was worms, but anyway, you know, maybe maybe we'll see where it goes Two studies out this last couple of weeks. Uh, we're published related to the nerve networks in C. elegans That wonderful worm species that scientists love to poke and prod and change their genomes and do all sorts of things because of course They're gonna it's just like people, but they can't do these things to people. Um They were looking at these worms And in looking at these worms, they Were considering the traditional view of The nervous system Which is that nerves conduct Down their axons they get messages at their dendrites They conduct down axons and the synapses are the places where messages are transferred from neuron to neuron And there can be modulation of the neuronal signals by other neurons There can be modulation. Also, we've learned recently by local signaling from The astrocytes and other glial cells that surround these nerve cells in the brain But there's been this kind of like understanding that there's still like a chemical soup surrounding neurons in the brain and things happen in The real connections of neurons in the brain That can't be explained by the standard neuronal models. There's something else going on and so these research researchers were like What's happening Our neurons just sitting in a soup and sucking up little bits of broth and going okay I like that taste of that. I would fire now or I will not or whatever And so is it A network or is it a soup or is it both? Why can't it be both? So one of the studies that was just recently published out of mrc laboratory of molecular biology in cambridge uk We're looking at these molecules called neuropeptides. They're little tiny bits of proteins and they've kind of been just like Oh, they're helpers They're just there and they help things along. That's all they do But what they did with the cl again Is they changed the way that the worms nervous system Actually expressed the genes for these neuropeptides particular ones that they were looking at And they tried to predict how the neurons were going to respond to How these how different neuro pep these neuropeptides were released differently And so they created a map of what they call wireless connections within the worm nervous system the worms don't really have a brain but They published it in the the journal neuron and then there's this other research that was also published separately in nature and They worked again on c elegans and We're measuring neuronal activity and They were able to actually reveal how this Wireless so not Neuron turn neuron connections not like the wires in our electrical system or our house, you know But like wi-fi like just stuff. That's around the neurons. They were able to start Actually measuring how The soup impacted the neurons. So they used optogenetics, which is this really cool technique that I hope Or actually, I'm Wondering how it might be applied to humans some point in the future But really it's great for worms and flies and things like that because it you if you genetically modify Modify if you should not apply Nerves to respond in a particular way when blue light is shown shining to blood On them then They activate or they deactivate but they're able to trigger activity in certain nerve cells through light to make them Send messages and they were able to see One by one each of the 302 neurons In c elegans and how the signals propagated from one to the next and what they found Is that just on the basis of how the neurons connect to each other They could not predict their activity so what they also Were aligning with was this idea that these little tiny molecules the neuropeptides Are part of the part of the soup and they're activating the system Of these nerve of these nerves within the worms And they've been able to try and Start putting together a model of basically how all of this works together And so the whole analogy of like brains or computers and they've got these you know networks We're so it's so simplistic it is it's so wrong We've been saying it's wrong for a very long time But now like it really is even beyond that so what they say now Is that the neuropeptides Are equally important and maybe even more diverse than synaptic signaling Within the nervous network An example That was brought up in a nature write-up of these papers is A particular weight loss treatment somaglutide that's fairly common these days that people are taking It can activate neuropeptide receptors In the body So if somaglutide is activating neuropeptide receptors, what does that mean for how the neuropeptides are influencing Nervous activity so In addition to the wired components of our brain, we are not and never have been really Even thinking about the unwired components This these other things that contribute to behavior though we have no idea how they work The supporting actors Yeah, the brain broth the brain broth that is just yeah And so it's you know our how many neurons are releasing these kinds of other brain broths and how Neuropeptides and other components extra cellular vesicles that contain little bits and pieces How are the glial cells? Releasing stuff and how is that influencing stuff if we get things through the brain the blood brain barrier How are we impacting brain function and nervous system function? There are So many things that are beyond just the synaptic version of the model of the brain that Textbooks are going to be rewritten I swear Yeah, and it's it's always going to be rewritten which is kind of exciting. You know what I mean? I love it. That's it's yeah I I love it so much. I mean I I started graduate school go look in a nervous systems and going okay nervous neurons are neurons and then you have Glial cells that do this and they're just supporting popcorn They're like the popcorn you put in a package when you mail it so that your stuff doesn't get broken But now we're finding out that no no no they do so much more and there are even different ways that our neurons interact with the materials the components that are being released and I don't know in terms of How we are The drugs we give ourselves antidepressants weight loss drugs different like what kind of drugs? All the ones you find in your drawer When you're looking for the mustaches Just saying no that's interesting. They're complicated. It's great Yeah, are we over complicating it? you know maybe It's a simpler fix And so I don't know the simpler fix I think is the interesting perspective here Because like the last story that I was like, I don't know if I want to talk about this one Is fascinating because we talk all the time about okay We got bacteria so many bacteria in our body that there's probably more bacteria than there are human cells How do bacterial imbalances? You're crying now. You're like, wait, what? Who am I? Just a big slab of bacteria Yeah, yeah, yeah, there you go. There you go. Cellular cellular bacterial slab big primarial soup yes, uh But researchers just looked into Uh what they call the origin and functions of meta organisms at keel university And they're looking at the freshwater polyp hydra, which is one of our wonderful ancestors Very hydra they're like these little sea Worm things with they're a windsock in the water An aquatic windsock in a quad. Yes polyp So anyway, they're like, all right Lots of research looking into microbiome. How does the microbiome get in? How does it influence behavior? we have evidence that imbalances in the gut can influence behavior and animals can change aspects of Neuronal behavior, but it's like is that really causation Correlation what's happening there? They looked at the hydra published in current biology and in their work, they basically were able to Use visualization to see a bacterial free hydra and how it fed and then a hydra with bacteria added Now with bacteria too But wait, there's more and they ate better. So Bacteria influenced the feeding behavior in real time of this living animal, which is one of our ancestors and With whom we have lots of neuronal circuits and Things in common so It's a very I think interesting Point as we start to think about These questions of what is influencing the brain influencing neurons, not just synaptic aspects, but When the bacteria start to become involved How do the metabolites of the bacteria that then get involved? What kind of neuropeptides are bacteria producing that are getting into our bloodstream that then could potentially influence The brain's immune system our nervous system all sorts of aspects of our behavior Um, I may now no longer take any Responsibility for anything I do if I have an upset stomach. It's just going to be all the bacteria's fault Yeah, they made you do it They made me do it, you know It wasn't satan it was salmonella and that's fine It's okay. It's great. Yes, but uh, this is one of the first studies that has actually taken a very causal perspective in the way that they've put the study together and been able to show that Bacteria influence behavior Does that make them influencers? Yes But it's not on the internet. It's like in the inner costals. No, I don't know the inner gut Yeah In the my lord my my small intestines Wasn't that a moot interspace where they like went into the movie where they like went in the body That is quaden meg and meg ryan also with martin short. Are you kidding? I fucking love that movie. Excuse my French. I love interspace damn cooks Cupid was the main song when he discovers that she's Prego because he goes in and then he sees her reproductive track and he sees a baby and he's like Oh my god, she's pregnant Yeah, this is not the magic school bus. Oh my god, I love that But they didn't know about the bacteria. Mm-hmm. Yeah, no, no Oh my We've come to the 10 o'clock hour. We've come to the end of the show. Is it time for moustaches? I must ask you did you bring your moustaches? Did you bring your quality moustaches or did you bring your budget moustache? This is actually high. This is a highfalutin This is I don't know if you my brother wore this and play with your balls one That was a testicular cancer psa. There is play with your balls to testament of glory Oh PSAs those are important Yeah, people people need to see these things. Yeah, play with your balls one Actually, my brother wore this and play with your balls too. I believe because that was one He wasn't in it my ex fiance's in it. So I want to redo it because we don't need him in there but yes it was Do over Do over but yes the because I think oh, yeah, because of november, you know, they do the moustache so I I did a spoof on congrats on growing a great Facial flora, but now it's time to find alternative ways to use that moustache And it was very ridiculous, but also Make sure you take care of your twins Your dna satchels, you know You only get to you only get to Some people I have friends with none. Yeah, I have none. Yes So you got them. I mean, I don't know if you should flaunt them, but uh, take care of them Yeah Yeah, don't forget about them No, no play with your balls too was actually quite good and I need to I might actually have to re Just throw it up online. It's Tomorrow is november 30th. It's the last day because I said I I propose that the next, uh logical step is moustache ride december Which I know I know I'm a child. I'm a child. You might have to take that out I'm a 12 year old boy in a 44 year old woman's body. I'm sorry I'm not sorry. I'm laughing But I have moustaches But you did bring your moustache Even though it Doesn't seem to want to stick No, I need spearmint gum, but it won't open I It won't open it's okay. I'm gonna get you moustache for christmas Or festivist or whatever That's all I want from crampus is a new moustache Reason just woke up for that Reason are you excited? Do you want a moustache reason? All we want from crampus is the new moustache Maybe baby. We got a dash Oh, yeah, oh, yeah I'm just gonna grow mine out next time you see me. I'll have a full on stash. It'll be amazing. That'll be great That one though the one you have it's very like last time when you found one It was it very it was very dark didn't match your hair color. This one is very Oh, yeah, did I wear it as an eyebrow? I felt like I did You did Yeah, that's I do that sometimes, but I don't know where those I don't know where that moustache went I used it for something. I I think I Yeah, I used it. It's been a couple weeks. I mean, I know there's there's been time to Raisins Looking for lip as if she's eating it and I don't want to don't don't don't go looking for that What do you do with your moustaches? I have to ask you I'm a googly eye person Oh, I got some of those Yeah, so I'm more a googly eye person than a moustache person and I'm more likely to put googly eyes on just about everything. Um I laughed at myself the other day because I Was putting on my shoes and looked at the bottom of my shoes and there were two little googly eyes Looking at me from the bottom of my foot. So Yes, that's awesome Yes, googly eyes or I have this whole goal I have these big hedges in my backyard and um, I want to grow them out like weird Mr. Potato heads mrs. Potato heads with like weird hair and stick like Put giant eyes and like giant googly eyes and weird noses on all of them. So like Yeah Yeah, no, I I'm a big fan My dad I told my dad about this. He's like you have a beautiful backyard. It's traditional Why would you want to do this and I'm like because it's traditional and I know I need more googly eyes and mr. Potato head noses. Come on That's so funny. Oh my god Yeah, so at some at some point there will be like, uh, I don't know a video unveiling of my My backyard hedge characters I would love to see that Can I come and put mustaches on them? I would have put mustaches on your hedges. That's not it. Yes, please. They have to be large. They have to be large We'll do different shape ones. We'll do, you know, maybe mutton chops on one of them You know with a You know, yeah, like some lemmy type Motorhead thing going on. Um, I can't wait to help me trim my hedges This week on this week in science, Natalia is trimming Kiki's hedges Oh my god and and strategically putting mustaches all over them just so many So many why does that one have so many must I did it just needed them Natalia was here. Hold on. Don't ask questions Raisin Pada wants to see raisin and I wanted to I wanted to give them what they want That raisin you're so far from me She's like she's three feet from me, but hold on raisin. Can I The people that you know, they want pug the gelatinous sack of beans and sand. Hold on There's also puppets. I'm looking. I'm stepping over puppets. Oh my goodness Oh my god. She's so difficult raisin No, no, no, this is There's no No, I'm sitting on my Your hair is like a wig for your dog or your dog I can't hear you, but the hair she looks like she wants to talk to your manager I think she wants to talk to your manager I did my name is care raisin So years ago when I was on star talk, I had to do a bit right like it's so funny we my friend and I wrote the same bit but um We wanted Hi, baby girl. We wanted I wanted to make meal look like katie parrot katie parry because he interviews katie parry and then um I was gonna look like meal, but I bought a katie parry at the point at that point. She had a pick blonde pixie hair There you go raisin and I bought her this I bought him a wig Lipstick he had like little shoes that matched her and so he wore it And I still have it and I did a photo shoot with raisin wearing this blonde pixie wig It's pretty spectacular. I'll have to send you it say hi raisin say hi to the people This is this is a sack of beans and sand She's just slipping through your arms. Oh, she doesn't She She has no support structure This is a boneless pug This she's so cute has no bones It has no Yeah, no agency raisin snarf snarf snarf She's really quite annoying when she does the dead weight It's very pain because she's heavy. She's like I mean she's a very solid 17 She speaks in fart That's her language Raisin conversation. Hi bud My we had a neighbor that thought she was growling and we're like, no, that's just her breathing How could anyone think that was a growl? That is not a growl No, she was a special neighbor. She was you know, she she was a conspiracy theorist and that was her conspiracy Oh my goodness I believe that bugs don't actually just have a breathing problem They're growling at everyone because they're not actually friendly They don't want your pets They don't want you to love them. Look at us Look how many likes she has And you're like six legs there. What's happening? There's I don't know. I think I'm I'm I'm outnumbered I'm outnumbered by legs I call her Salvador doggy because she has a fat tube-like body But then these long spin look at this leg I heard there's the leg so long and it's just gonna drop Reason why are you so? Have agency have structure Look at the camera Tell people you love them Stare into the camera That was painful raisin, okay All right All right, comfortable Thank you for joining the show. I think we have come to the end of it But where's your cat I'm kidding. I don't know where she is. She's off doing her cat things right now Tonight is not a night of me being bothered. I don't know why she escaped out the back door earlier And so she had a little adventure and uh, oh, I think she's feeling her oats She's like feeling her oats and edges. I'm just really glad yeah in the hedges I'm just glad you didn't get eaten by a coyote. So oh god. Yeah. Yeah Get back inside Cappy Cappy Coyote would not appreciate the cap buffer But she's here she's fine. Good. She's avoiding me. I don't know. She's off somewhere being warm and comfortable as cats do I don't know what that means or feels like You're like, I'm really uncomfortable my pug just hurt me and I am cold because My soul is dark and empty because I'm in the dark jungle It's cold at night. It really does look like I'm in some weird heart of darkness That's going on. I know I need to work on my background like There's that's the that's the other that uh, yellow Background you mean like your origin story or no, you don't want to know about that. That's definitely a dark one But there's a banana suit back there um I've seen pictures Well, thank you so much for having me. Oh, yes, you're welcome What are the places once again where people may find you and follow you and you know be influenced by your magnificence Well, the bowels of the jungle of course, but I On twitter or x or whatever the heck we call it uh and instagram. It's at natalia 13 reagan And then tick tock at behold natalia and I am taking people on trips So if you want to come to the glopagos or madagascar There's still spots available for madagascar and I think there might be one spot opening up and glopagos It it's going to be a it's an amazing group of people a lot of animal people experts and whatnot. So Um, yeah, that's that's what I got going on I have a ton of comedy shows coming up lots of comedy shows. So follow me and I'll be posting And if you're in the la area Natalia, you are part of a particular comedy competition that uh, oh I just did that that uh, I did not yeah, I did it. I did not Go on to the it's it's it was fine But it was one of those things where it's a it's it's a bringer show So, you know, it was the day before Thanksgiving. I was like friends. You want to no nobody wants to okay It's not happening. No, so I did not advance. That's okay. That's okay. My own mom was like no, I'm not going Uh, but I do do shows. I'm doing a variety show next week called varietyville. That is at the broad water I'm also doing um, well, hope opening for house sparks tomorrow night at flappers I'm doing a show called horror nerd On december 15th at the improv lab where you get to dress like your favorite horror star So it's going to be so much fun. Come check it out Do you what are you who are you going to be? Can you know inside scoop? Have you decided I might I I'm oh, it's tough. I'm really I'm fluctuating between Carrie as in the carry, uh and frank and furter Oh That's a good one too. Yeah more comedic Obviously, yeah, I mean but Carrie has some good ones like I mean you got to come on stage and just say does anyone have a tampon I mean like stuff like that that really, you know I guess that's an interesting point like what material do you have when you are a different character like who What are the lines? What can you say that like for frank for frank and furter? Like what are the things that weren't already said in the movie that are Yeah, so what could happen? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah with frank and furter. I do a bit about Trans and being and animals if you have a problem with trans Well, anyway, any well drag queens especially if you have a problem with drag queens And you really need to take it up with peacocks and the male mandrel and all these animals in in nature that are like The most garish brightly colored freak shows and I love them, but like come on now They are and then the females are queens. Yeah, they really are I mean look at a peacock. Are you kidding? Look at a peahen. It's just like yawn, you know so Yeah Oh He's a hot dog Yeah I know I can speak for her truck It's the only song I can do karaoke a sweet transvestite and I love I love that movie and that song and All right Oh my gosh Everyone thank you so much for joining us for another episode again Natalia Thank you so much for joining me for another episode I was so glad that you were able to come back because once again so much fun and Tonight we got into some you know more real stuff, but I think we're you know at the point where we can We can dig and we can get into things and it's really very Yeah, it's wonderful. So thank you I appreciate it Everyone though, you know that I need to do shout outs right now and I need to tell y'all who I'm thankful for So I am thankful for all of you who are here in the chat room and who have been watching during this live broadcast Thank you to all of you who are in the discord who are in youtube facebook and twitch and I Do hope that you will always be here with your comments because they do influence us as we watch even if we Don't always respond to what what you're saying. We are watching Fada, thank you so much for your help with show notes and social media and gourd Arnold or thank you for helping to keep things real in those chat rooms Identity four. Thank you for recording the show and rachel. Thank you for your editing And finally, thank you as always to our patreon sponsors I must thank Arthur Kepler craig pots Murray Gertz treason Smith Richard Badge bob cole secret Ken north coat rick loveman george corris pierreville is our john ratness wami carl cornfield chris wozniak vegaard chef's dad donathan styles aka dom stylo alie coffin reagan shoe brew sarah for far dawn mondes pig steven alberon daryl myshac stew pollock andrew swanson fridtas 104 sky luke paul renovate kevin lear Reardon noodles jack brian carrington davidie youngblood shon colarance lamb john mckay greg riley marqueson flow steve leesman aka z mckenn haze howard tan christopher wrapping Richard brennan minnish johnny grilly remy date jibberton latimore flying out christopher drier artyom greg gregs john atwood groovy garcia Dave wilkinson ronnie lewis pill pill no paul rick ramas pillop shane curt larison craigland zoo duster jason olds Dave neighbor eric nap e o kevin adam mishkan kevin parishan erin luthan steve debel bob calder marjorie paul d disney david summarily patrick parker raro and tony steel Thank you for all of your support on patreon without you We really wouldn't still be doing this show So thank you and if any one of you want me to read your name At the end of the show make sure you head over to twist.org and click that patreon link On next week's show Our guest guest host is going to be the incredible tom merit from dts and sword and laser So I hope you don't miss it because we might get a little techie We might be bringing all of the robot news next week I don't know We will be back on wednesday at 8 p.m. Pacific time broadcasting live from our youtube facebook and twitch channels You can go to twist.org slash live to get links to all of those Especially if you want to listen to us as a podcast, this will be edited You can find us wherever podcasts are found look for this week in science get your friends to subscribe to For more information on anything that you have found here Interesting there will be show notes links to stories and our website is twist.org and it'll be like boom Oh sign up for our loot newsletter. Please sign up for our newsletter because we might send one one day You can contact us directly. I'm kirsten at kirsten at this weekend science dot com Justin is at twist many net do you mail dot com blare at blare bas at twist dot org Natalia do you want emails from any of these people? Sure if you want Natalia 13. Yeah Yeah, you're cool. Natalia 13 Reagan at gmail.com Great. Make sure you put twists in the subject line. So of course Your email doesn't get spam filtered into that weird wacky cloacal kiss between the bats with Big genitalia. We're not going there again And I mean we might oh my god Being us on social media at twist science is what the show is. I'm usually at dr. Kiki I might be the at the dr. Kiki. There's also blare Blair's menagerie and jackson fly and as natalia was telling you earlier hers as well We love your feedback if there's a topic or any guests that you want us to have on the show Let us know We'll be back again Next week and we hope you'll join us for more great science news. Of course You learned anything from the show remember It's all in your head and it's all you froze, right? I'm so frozen. Can you hear me? Yeah This week in science This week in science This week in science This week in science. It's the end of the world. So i'm setting up shop got my banner unfurled It says the scientist is in i'm gonna sell my advice Show them how to stop the robots with a simple device I'll reverse global warming with a wave of my hand And all it'll cost you is a cup of the grass coming your way So everybody listen to what i say. I use the science This week in science This week in science This week in science This week in science science science science I've got one disclaimer and it shouldn't be news that what I say may not represent your view It did freeze on a very nice laughy smile Cramed it's wonderful Oh my god, I was like, oh no Are you kidding? But it was perfect. It was the end of the show. It was perfect. I know it really did kind of go off with a A bang or whatever we went. Oh, did you go is it black? Is that normal? It's not black for me yet. No, everyone. We are still in the after show. Oh now. She's black. She's gone away. There. She's back What's up? Finning okay I don't know Your internet decided that it It wanted to do its own thing Hold on I got this new I think I told you this thing that looks like It's in a Pixar movie. It looks like Evie or something from I don't even know AT&T I think they messed with me, but um, yeah, I don't know I'm just gonna close some tabs. Is that gonna help? I don't know what happens Close the tabs Especially like again and again and again. I'm gonna tell people this is the thing google chrome Tills all your power It's terrible and it's an age old problem that they've never fixed, but uh I don't know Tills Well, that was fun, but you're here now. Yeah, I'm here. Am I fun? Yeah You're back Good Sweet have hello tab suspender Is that um, like a pair of suspenders or I'm guessing it's an is that a plug-in or an app I don't know what to do. Why how do I make cookies go away? Is that a cookie thing? What's happening? Chill out computer I need to get a new computer. It's also very very very old. It's like hanging on by a thread This is one of those things now that we're in this world where everyone has to be online And we do these wonderful things which are very fun You also have to be able to afford a computer that has a video card separate from the uh Uh The graphics card is separate from the main card and then you got its own thing The ram's gotta be big and then yeah, I mean isn't like the case with rams usually they They're very large animals, you know Yes, those aren't they're very horny onculates. Mm-hmm Sorry, I'm really sorry I uh, but they are not necessarily as persistently aggressive as female fruit flies apparently There I feel very much in tune with female fruit flies. I never thought I would feel so I don't know what such a kinship really Persistently Some days. Yes. Some days. No some days my family goes. Who are you? You are persistently aggressive You Your fruit my husband who my husband who loves me so much says my dear darling Kiki, why are you so persistently aggressive? And I look at him and I say Don't make me punch you in the forehead. Yes I'll show you persistently aggressive You want to see some persistent impression? Well, you're gonna have to hang out here. Um, all day It's gonna be persistent is going there My anger is if anything persistent, I mean it really is No Yeah, no, I'm pretty chill. I've but I've seen Your anger on this show. I mean, I was gonna say Natalia. I mean We should if you need somebody to talk to about the anger you feel like That aggression I'm here. Okay. Thank you. I'm surprised you didn't go running the other way It depends on if you're wearing a mustache or not. Oh, okay. Hold on if you if you've been able to find your mustaches then, you know Fine. If not, then I know that you have no vessel to pour the aggression into I could fit so much aggressions so many aggressions in this mustache. It's like my god damn It's your mustache familiar You're gonna store your aggression in it. Oh my familiar. Oh my god It's I put all my aggression in my mustache. That's why it's always up for a fight Oh my god It's got it's it's kind of got its dukes up. It already kind of like has that swirl that sort of you know that must It's that mustache too. It is the swirly Yeah, I got this and it's it's strawberry blonde, which it would match you kiki It matched both of us. Oh it matches you. No the coloration is like from what I'm seeing here on the screen looks It matches you quite well. That's not great And my boyfriend just got home so just in time for me to go look honey. I'm got a mustache And he's so surprised. He's absolutely Faced he's unhinged with his shock Blown away as an understatement. Where did you find that? I Probably underneath the cabinet. I mean, it's disgusting how many Jeff is it correct that I used to walk around finding mustaches throughout our house They're always stuck to what They're always stuck to his butt That's a whole nother. Yeah, no, but he's found them on his shoe, you know, and I'm just like, oh give that to me That's my mustache Yeah, so Does he does he does he miss his beard and mustache? Does no he doesn't he even the one that he shaved off yesterday Yeah, no, he was tired of it. He had hit the threshold Although I don't I do it for november. Was it like specific? No No, just sheer laziness Not wanting to shave which I like him. He looks great with a beard But yeah, I think he just he gets to a point where it's itchy and annoying and then But this is one of the the biggest beards I had seen on him And it was when he shaved it. It was quite robust the amount the wad of Fur I had you do you can't just shave that like what do you do you go through with scissors first and then shave Or do you have to have like special attachments to reduce the amount of hair and like slowly get How do you being your beard? How do you though do that? Do you want yeah, you use the trimmer first, right? He trimmed it first, but he doesn't shave at all. I've never seen his face Totally shorn. I've never seen he always has a like a shadow A five or a seven p.m. Shadow, you know Yeah, like I've never seen him fully Did your husband have a fully shaved? Yeah, he shaves every day. Wow He does a little like he'll occasionally let it get a little a little bit longer, but he's a regular Shearer sheer as of the facial quaff Yes, I had my my dad when I was young He grew a mustache the giant lip caterpillar and That's just I knew him for so long with this Mustache the lip hat. Yes, and one day he shaved it off Oh, no, and I looked at him And I started crying and I said I don't even know you anymore I think I was like seven or eight That's so sweet. Oh man. Oh That's yours Oh Like it's this weird memory in my brain and now I'm like, oh, I probably my my dad feels so bad that he shaved his Mustache, but does he have now? Does he have a mustache now? Do you know him now? Does he know who he is? Do you know him now? Yes Yeah, but he goes back and forth between having and not having mustaches It is yeah, but he's never had the full beard thing. Well, no, he tried to have a beard thing for a while It was more like the mustache goatee Was he sparse? No I was like, I don't like that one dad. You can get rid of that. That's fine. Yeah, but my dad's got a goatee Which is like a hip thing to have for a dad, I think in some ways where I'm just like I don't I don't understand But my dad was a very bearded human growing up and I laughed when he shaved I like because I was never seen his upper lip before and I was like, well, that was the same thing But you laughed I cried Jeff to be honest Jeff did that when he was for his dad. Were you for when your dad shaved? He was for and his dad shaved off his he had never seen his dad without Facial hair and he he was for and he started crying Who are you? Yeah, it's it's traumatic I don't understand I wonder if I should try to do the same thing to my child if I have one that I just walk in one day with a mustache I like it. Let's try it. It's a good experiment. I think it's great. There you go. I think this is I think I'm gonna be a great parent Oh, you're gonna be fabulous. It's wonderful Oh my god, my son he used to get I I go without a lot of makeup generally Yeah Mascara or whatever, but I'm yeah generally light on Stuff, but occasionally I'm like, I'm gonna make dramatic eyes. I'm gonna make go out go and yeah, I get I used to actually get dressed up and go out places with people But it was one of those nights going out with a friend and I'd put on Dark eyeliner and a smoky eye and had like a nice Red, you know, I did it up and I thought I looked pretty good My son Kai looked at me. He's like Mommy, I don't like it when you do that. Don't do this anymore What why would you do that to your face? Wow Oh my god, you don't think it looks nice No No Mom That's so sweet But also like no, I'm gonna do what I want Yes, you'll be fine. You'll be fine You're gonna live through this and you can accept me being multitudes. I can be I can I can Put makeup on I can do different things. I can dress up different ways and hello. This is How a person is You can wear mustaches You can google. Have you done just like walked out with like a third eye or something and just Yes, yeah, yes, I yes, I feel like you have many times Yeah, there there are many adventures right now. I've got like throughout my house I have I didn't do it But my friends came to visit and they hid little tiny hands all over my house. Oh, I like those I have some of those you're like In this door. Yeah, you can like fit one on your fingertip I'm like you can play like you have multiple hands and it's very fun Uh, but once upon a time There's a kazoo Your drawers are fun There are a bunch of um lake Turkana boy skulls Oh miniature ones. Yeah, but yeah, I know We did but they didn't come out very good or hard. Oh that came off pretty good. But yeah Trying to break them off like ice cubes. Yeah, basically it's actually oh, it's a small version of this one So it's just a little one those are Those are so cool. Yeah Um, yeah, but They're pretty fun. They're ridiculous I like you know what they need though They need moustaches and googly eyes. I feel like I'm gonna I actually have some googly eyes I could I have some little guys. I'm gonna probably put in this and send it to you So kiki can have a A nario katomi googly eye homo ergaster We'd love that. Yeah I've done that with our halloween decorations taken you know skulls and things and Put big googly eyes where the eyes are supposed to be and I have I have all sorts of visions of decorations that need to occur and usually they involve googly eyes Googly eyes and tiny now you could do the tiny hands too like little tiny hands coming out Um, have you seen that? I had pet chickens during coven like a weird. Oh, yes You showed you showed us those beautiful chickens that you fell in love with my sweet hens. Oh my girls Nuggled you. Oh, they were my cuddle nugs um, but During that time like 2020 it was really like popular this piece of like wire that you could put around your chickens And it had the little tiny hands on it. So it looks like they were walking around these hands I didn't have it, but everyone's like you need to get these and Yeah, I know it's it's I'm all about ridiculous animal get-ups My other favorite are the squirrel feeders which are like little animal heads and so Yes, go in to eat like the nuts or the peanut butter or whatever and then they're like suddenly a unicorn or a dinosaur or I love that. I'm a big fan of the squirrels Sorry. Yes. I am feeding the animals because it's funny It's okay. I mean, they're certain. Yeah Yeah The I had a friend that befriended Ravens and but she did it like the very ethical like what can you give raven? You know, they're not they're already gonna find right because they live in urban environments And it was like but ravens ravens. These are specific ravens. Yeah, I actually have two ravens that live outside of my house that are I love them so much and they you know, they come by and they have different Like dialects too, you know, because they do that Like that like that chatter to each other my friend was visiting from up north and he goes the ravens here have such a different dialects and ours up north Oh, I love that. I know right. I know I was so cool and I love it the ravens So this is like right now you're speaking my language because I did bird Studies and what do you tell me which bird? so it was bird lots of different birds, but um, I started with scrub jays and magpies and the scrub jays I You know and and the magpies also, you know, like in the central valley of california Like people are like magpies. They're such a pest And all they ever do is go And the scrub jays are like And they do their alarm calls and they're like That's what that's what people recognize right because that's what's loud and that's what they hear but When they were in the lab and I got to be in there giving them food They were doing these little tiny warbles. He's like And those little chips and like yeah, they have a there is a dialect There is a language There is stuff that we don't understand and they had like they had this little whispering Like the thing that I loved the most was the little like real sub Quiet talk that was like the just person to person or bird to bird. Yeah, you know, right? I love that and it was the most beautiful thing to listen to and That's the thing that people don't notice and so the Or the number of calls Right pro gives out when you put food on your lawn to call the other birds in is it four calls? Is it three three calls and then there's a chuck chuck sound that the crows do and there's like I don't there's a language. Yeah, there's a And these are intelligent social animals. Yeah Yeah, I love watching the Well, the the ravens. I mean, they're oh my god. Cappy Come here fuzz nugget. What is what is he doing? He was climbing She's being a jerk. Don't do it. She's like, hi, I'm here. Pay attention to me. Look at me I didn't get eaten by coyote. Give me love Tell me about what Montreal. What are you gonna say? Oh Oh, no, no, no, no that I would just say the the chatter between the ravens is so So so lovely and then uh, we there's like, you know a murder of crows that comes and harasses them And it's oh my goodness. Who is this muffin? You're so sweet Yeah, she's so pretty I love her. I think she's She's got such pretty coloration. Oh my god. She's such a little. Oh, look at her You're a little you know huntress Oh, she is she likes to hunt the things that's why I have to play with fake birds Oh, yeah strings with her in the house So that she won't go kill the birds outside Oh Yeah But she gets out she sneaks out Yeah, I don't let her out. I don't I don't let the cats out. I'm not that smart cat. I'm not an outside cat mom My mom's keeping her cats in too finally, you know Because for years as a kid. Yeah, but two billion birds a year As a bird person that must make you so sad Yeah Yeah, I mean and I grew up out in the country like on Agricultural land like my house my family house is like in the middle of farmland and so we had Mausers and we had cats that would Come and go and some of them liked being the house other ones didn't and so it was always just like Cats were outside cats. That's the way it was but I don't know. I think you know living in a city and living in an urban space It's just a completely different prospect, but Right Yeah Save the birds Save the birds Yeah and um We have coyotes in my mom's neighborhood pretty bad. So yeah, my mom has one very fat cat named weenus that's Oh, that would be such a snow. She's 20 she's 25 pounds. She's huge that cat's not running away fast enough. No Wait, you have a neighborhood bald eagle. That's amazing. Yeah, eric nap lives in alaska and so Oh, well crap. That's Yeah, eric eric has some interesting That's great. Yeah interesting wildlife and ecosystem stuff, but I think that's I love Robert varner says italian birds have the best style I know Yeah, I can't I'm not going to say anything italian because all I know That's I just actually told you off in italian. I know I heard it. I'm sorry. That's all I know My high school boyfriend's mom was Sicilian. So you know, I learned from the best And of course like I'm like, oh, I understood what you just said. Okay, great I don't know much italian, but I know that What if I was was it nink ninkio minkio domare it was like dick of the sea and I was like I'm I call it is that a sea a sea cucumber. Yeah, right Exactly. I kind of likes sea or a nudibranch. I mean there's a nudibranch. Yeah You know the nudibranchs with all their fancy colors and fluorescence rhinophores, man I did a series called sending nudes and it was sending nudibranchs And sending nudes. So I did like different nudes and different nudibranchs and then you did I remember that that is a good series Yeah, and then the dick dicks Yeah, okay I was banned From uh, so I like watching djs on twitch I'm I'm broadcasting twitch right now, but I really enjoy like especially during the pandemic It became a source of like I couldn't go out to clubs and listen to djs anymore Mm-hmm. They started broadcasting on twitch and like one of my favorite djs Started watching I was like, yeah, okay I can get in the chat and I can start talking and to people and talked. Oh, that's be awesome and Of course within two minutes. I'm talking about dick dicks and I got banned from the channel Oh my god, like and I had to get my friends over there also. I was like, can you back me up? That's an animal and like I'm not being rude It was This is why you need educated sensors that are like, oh, no, no, no, that's just a small-bodied on gillet sound in sepzahar in africa She's fine. She's cool. Exactly I have to say I'm probably the only person who's ever been banned from twitch for talking about You know, we're gonna get banned from twitch africa talking about nudes and and dick dicks No And maybe I will maybe I mean it was worth it right button. It was worth it Oh my god Yeah, that video I get I can't monetize anything on instagram I think I told you because of even like slightly talking about reproduction. Nope No, no Yeah So I think that's sell feet pictures And I think that's one of the the issues with media right today where we're supposed to you know be Content creators and educators and like, you know Edge youtubers or edge you talkers or whatever it is these days, but there's nobody who's determining the difference between This show and the way we talk about science versus Joe Rogan and the women what he did or you know Some of the you know other people who conspiracy theory stuff and like, you know And understanding appreciatively that you've done bigfoot shows and everything of course, but Oh, I don't I was a skeptic Right, but the the skeptic point is to come at stuff from an evidentiary basis to not cherry pick your data to try and look at things from You know, not the I have an open mind perspective, but like what do we really know and like where can we go from here kind of ideal and the Can we only talk about a Robot hands that are 3d printed. Can we only talk about Uh technology, can we only talk about, you know stem cells? In the realm of therapeutic uses as opposed to reproductive uses. Can we only talk about Animals can why can't I talk about? What is it with the slugs where it's uh From aphroditic species. No, no, no, no, no the uh Insemination where they like stick themselves in their own heads with the like Oh, I don't know. Traumatic. Traumatic. Traumatic insemination. Traumatic insemination. Red bugs, right? Red bugs, you know You know, how can we really educate and or make people curious about the Yeah, breadth and depth of variety in our world and biology and the universe if You know the way that we talk about stuff is considered the same as You know people talking about porn or you know hot tub girls on twitch or whatever that happens to be, you know like how I think your mental aspect is ridiculous. Yeah, I even got into it My mom is incredibly progressive and great But she hates that I've done anything about the clitoris, right? Like I've taught I have a I have a new sticker Because I have the the louder the call the smaller the ball sticker But I have a new sticker that says spider monkeys are lit with a hypertrophied clit, which is an animal fact spider monkeys have a hypertrophied clitoris my mom's like, oh you and your clitoris stuff like what is You know, what is the point? I said because people should know about this. She's like, yeah medical professionals and doctors or whatever and I was like everybody Should know about this Yeah, everybody knows about like everybody the wiener and Yeah We know where that is. We know what it does. We know, you know, but yeah So um, but yeah sex ed is a real touchy one because they you know, even like when I super touchy Yeah, when I talk about even like so I do a lot of shows comedy shows that I talk about Not from my own sex life. I don't bring up my own sex life But I talk about the sex lives of buffalo and penguins and bonobos and you know how that might apply to humans But I don't it's not about me like giving blow jobs and stuff But I might mention, you know, if like there is oral copulation with Penguins or whatever, you know And that there are certain things that are common to human like copulatory Prakat practices and enjoyments that you know, you can talk about it doesn't have to be you but it's no commonly understood Yeah, but the thing is does it so I have my question is like when I get asked, you know Do you have any clean comedy? Of course like well Because I asked my agent I was like too what is what I do clean enough, you know For some of the stuff and she goes you're talking about animals. So it's okay You know what I mean like in some cases, right? But it just it's it's tough because I do I don't want to offend. I don't want to you know Get myself in a pickle, you know, but at the same time I also like to push the envelope because I'm a little pickle Yeah Nice crunchy dill Yeah, classic. Is that is our classic dillpill. I don't even know No, but I feel the same way like I've been doing this show for a very long time and I always always always I want to talk about subjects and I want to put them out there and there's this weird like reticence and I'm like, huh Is this like My prudishness is it my concern for how people are gonna accept it or not accept it or is like You know, so it is always an interesting thing to talk Talk about things that are related to animal reproduction Or even human reproduction. Yeah, but it like the way I always, you know, and I always approach it is that it's This is science. This is a scientific study and I am Sharing this information I'll be it sometimes in a humorous way, but I try to be real You know, we'll go serious for a second. Yep Then the humor hits and the ha ha ha how funny about these words and then we go back to the real and like Yeah, you know, so I try and mix it in but it's always this weird place Yeah, I uh the first conference I ever gave a talk at It was ASP. It was the American Society of Primatologist and I remember my advisor who I adore But she told me she remember I was right about to go up and she's like remember this is a conference This is a talk. It's not stand-up comedy and this is in 2011 And I I say and at the time I was like, yeah, I know why no, you know But now I say Why not Why not Why not why I mean it doesn't have to be like again education and the the facts first But why not approach it and entertain because and and Julie Lesnick who is a Wonderful bio anthra. She wrote a book called eating insects highly recommend But she I interviewed her years ago about the importance of humor and her teaching and she says laughter is immediate feedback It's immediate feedback that your audience is listening And you know connecting in an emotional way Yeah, which yeah, it's not just listening But they're connecting Yep Yeah, and it's important. Yeah, right and that that'll that'll help them remember Even they might not know remember this the details of your research. They're gonna remember you Which in academia like let's be real. It's about publish or perish It's about forming and forging connections at conferences And if somebody you're you know, although there there is a back, you know There can be backlash to stuff like this to like, you know Some some people might not want to work with you because you were too humorous. You're too glib You're not serious because I I always say when I talk about science communication, you know Take take your work seriously, but not yourself, you know have fun with it with science communication But some people might not like that, but I think things are changing More and more because I think people are realizing that if we want to reach the public and get outside the rooms of a conference Because that's where a lot of this research lives and dies You got to get out there, you know or be open to other people presenting it in a way that's entertaining You know, and that's why people love the show like somebody actually just messaged me while I was In the show, but I love that podcast. Yeah, he was like, oh my god. I love that podcast. I was like, awesome You didn't that's awesome. Yeah, and he's actually coming back say Kiki says hi I will I don't know where my when raisin when that debacle with my dog happened. She kicked my phone You're sitting on it I might just I I have no idea where my phone is Like I think she might have eaten my phone. She didn't eat your phone dogs. Don't do I do love here Uh, Daniel's comment, uh from youtube. Oh, but we're we're allowed to talk about all the violence you like though So we can talk about all the human aggression chimpanzee aggression. We can talk about eight wars. We can talk about, you know Anything related to violence and fantaside You know real gnarly shit Yeah, but the minute we start talking about Reproduction or not even reproduction But just sexual health. Yeah It suddenly becomes a completely taboo subject and It's uh people like where we started You can't monetize You can't you can't It's not in a category. It's like, oh, you're talking to Libby about sexuality and Genitalia and this and so you're suddenly in a category that advertisers are not going to be Happy to be advertising on Yeah Yeah, and so then it turns Okay, number one All these platforms Monetizing through them Is stupid number two Getting your own Sponsors is hard But that's really the way to do it so that you have support for somebody Who believes in what your messages are and what you're doing? And I think you've already done that with like a few groups who have supported you in different um ad campaigns for breast health and mammograms and other stuff like that, but like I have not Really the mammogram stuff was not I thought that was I just I just did it because I wanted to talk about I had a friend that guy got diagnosed with very aggressive breast cancer Maybe three months ago. She's like a year younger than I am has three children just got married And I was like I and then I and then the same day I had my mammogram another friend that same day got diagnosed and she's 30 You know, so I'm just like women need to be on it I was convinced that you'd had sponsor support just to do that specific like because it was so hard like so specific a series of videos but Yeah, but I think that's the unfortunate part of the creator churn and making money as a creator On these platforms. I think is not really what you're going to do it's the Trying to find your audience Like the people who are watching here right now the people who have found you through instagram or other places who Want to support you like if you you know keep pushing your patreon um But then it's also It's it's finding other outside Places because oh, yeah, yeah, you know this like we've grown through the development of all of these platforms and seen things Come and go quick it disappeared like, you know opportunities come and go and then If you base yourself like I I just want to tell people who are like, I'm a youtuber. I'm a tiktoker. I'm like stop it Don't that diversify diversify Yes Make the things you think are important find a home for yourself, which is your own website Yeah, but then also put things on these platforms that can like Lead back to you and get yourself your help, but I'm so mad Yeah It's it's tough because I I mean I've watched people blow up on say for instance like twitter. They got blow up They blow up and they think they are god's gift to earth and you're like But you've only done Twitter and like you've only done nothing But like you know like tweets and and that's not I mean that you can engage with an audience But like look at twitter now, you know twitter is What is it? I know I Every time I go on it. It's a cesspool and it's just a bunch of angry trolls angry Arguing people and even instagram like, you know, I was making money on them for a little bit and same with tiktok I I had a video that got 8.5 million views Things started blowing up like all you all the congratulations. That's huge. Yeah, that's amazing Thank you. And it's it was a clip from my accident I gave I did a story a story collider show about my accident and it's a lot of the The comments or hate comments Because they're mad because they think it's a stand-up show and they're like, why isn't this hilarious? Why is this not funny enough? And I said and I would comment like real It's about my near-death experience. I told us I told a story that was real Yeah, people don't know how to read the comment or the you know caption So but anyways point being like that those hate comments It was a great lesson because that drove the algorithm You know and I would come I would actually say thank you like hey, thanks. You're driving the algorithm. Have a good day Like also I don't wish them any, you know, but that's what I would do and it's like, you know, you don't delete it you just kind of but um Yeah, like that. So, oh, yeah, like tiktok invited me to join their creator fund And then of course as soon as I joined that my views went down to 200 300 whatever and it was like from like 500 000 So wait a minute. What happened? I joined your group of like this fund that is supposed to be like the like the specially funded group of people On your site that are gonna be doing well And then and then puff What? Yeah, so I just decide I I don't put any energy I mean, I I kind of I'll do like I'm doing a live tomorrow I'm doing a live with a friend of mine who's a disease ecologist named jake sherba. He's wonderful And we're friends from tiktok and he's this great, you know, I actually I feel bad He's written up a list of questions for me that go back to like my thesis. I'm like Oh god, like, you know what I mean? I was like and he's like pulling up things from way back when and I'm like I haven't done any ample research But he's done some really neat work research about different worms affecting a lot of waterfowl and Ducks and lots of duck stuff. I don't I have to feel so bad because I'm like I need to read it I actually sent myself all the articles but point being you better do these type things You gotta do your research because obviously he's done it. I know. Oh jeez But uh, yeah, so I'll do that kind of stuff, but I don't I don't but like you said I don't um I don't put all my eggs in one basket, you know, I I'm Working on a book proposal right now. I'm like, you know, I'm doing a bunch of different little You know what I mean? Just kind of pivot and I've got a pod that science for social change is about to come out And that will be I've got a bunch of episodes backlog for that, but you know, it's yeah It's academic-y science-y, but you know, you'll like it. I think you'll enjoy some of it It's it's the people I've interviewed and so many people who watch the show are gonna love it too Yeah, so many good scientists. It's gonna be great Yeah, and I'm gonna have to have you on Yep I don't I'm I'm not interested in social change I want everything to stay the same. I'm happy it's good I'm just gonna put some googly eyes on some hedges. Don't mind me But you do I mean like you this has been going on for how it's 952 episodes Yeah, so I've been doing this. That's amazing twist this weekly been doing over 20 years and I It's a whole it's a whole labor of love. What did you start doing it? When I was in grad school at UC Davis It was a terrestrial radio show to start and then we started following the technology and I made tape cassette recordings and then I did mp3 Like mini disc recordings and then my friend was like I can put these on the internet for you And I was like, okay, and so we made a website and then we had We had people who actually found the website and like downloaded things and I was like what and then iTunes made its iPod directory and we Got in there and I I'm gonna debate. I'm in a debate with One of the people from science friday, but I think we started our podcast before science friday did so Yeah, we I think twist is like the first science podcast And that's fantastic close to longest running Wow We're not every day like some other weekly things other shows are like we do Monday through friday And we're already like 5 000 episodes or whatever but like That's a lot I got decades on people That's amazing That is a long ass time. I started listening 2007 dear lord That's amazing been around for a long time. Yes. That's so great. I love that though See, I definitely need to have you on because I need to hear the whole story Yeah, no, I've got on of it All of the story I've been working with my work on the show darling bring jennifer lorence I bring jennifer on a bonobo and we'll talk about how I swim in ditches and undead radio And now do this amazing psych off thing and try to tell people that it's good for the world Okay Yeah Doing the not lords work Yeah Yeah Oh paul disney you're funny according to some of my family members twist gets its money from big pharma and the government Waka waka waka Oh, that's funny because um, yeah, no That's really funny. Oh my god. Wow I Actually turned down pharma money What? Yes, there was a pharma company that approached me for uh to sponsor the show Probably over a decade now ago now and I said no Wow I could have made more I could have made more money y'all God It's tough having morals Ethical dilemmas suck This is why it right It's do you have sponsors other than the patreons or is it? Do you know that? No, it's all patreon. It's all listeners supported. Um, that's great. If we ever have Any sponsors it's only going to be sponsors that I believe are good for my listeners Copy that and that it's something they will appreciate and so it's worth it so Yeah, that's yeah That's just where I am. I could have been I could have been big natalia You are big You're a big time You'll always be big to me Big ol kiki I'm probably shorter than you but that's okay. Oh, I don't know about that. I'm short. I'll call you I like to say I'm five foot three and three quarters, but that is not true and I'm stretching it Oh Okay, I'm five five So here we go. I am a bit taller if I really Work on my posture I know Who are my high heels? There you go. I have eight eight tall glitter shit kickers They look like kiss shoes, you know the big old any platformers Yeah, I wear them Every so I wore them at one night at burning man for like 12 hours. I don't know how I did it. I don't understand It's because they're platforms Yeah, but still arms, but still that's pretty Eight inches Yeah, that's like But platform is probably half Half of that was Platform. Yeah, and then so Yeah You have a partner who's home and a raisin dog who's gelatinous A sack of beans and sand that needs to be hugged Needs to be hugged She needs love Loved And all the tangs and you cat and a human person and a child you made a human I did I made a human and He has to go to school tomorrow Which means I have to get up in the morning No Yeah, I'm doing this I'm trying to do this whole thing recently I'm like, maybe I can sleep until five minutes before I have to take him to school and he'll make his own breakfast and lunch That's what you think He's 12 and a half It's gonna be great It's going on 30 Yeah, take care of yourself kid. Come on. You're fine. Yeah, it's gonna be amazing Get yourself a pack of cigarettes. Have a good one Yeah, just you know stare into the meaningless void of your iphone You know That's all you need forever Oh Paul disney is gonna render the audio and upload it awesome And then goes Because it's after 11. It's late. It's late late My little baby head needs to go to the sleepy sleeps. We gotta put your skull. You gotta put your skulls to sleep and I tuck them in That's not creepy at all, but it would be awesome At all for my solid gold The solid gold wine gets a hot pink pillow because I think gold and hot pink cook really well together. It's pretty Yeah, hot pink satin. It'll be really nice and comfy for the cold. It'll be really good Pranthropist Boise I definitely talks that way I can just tell I can feel it. It's 2 15 in the morning where you are Yeah, you up late. You're in New York. Where are you? Yeah, welcome. Thank you for being here. Thank you Thank you. Sorry to talk your ear off You know what mustaches sometimes people stay up for the mustaches And on that note new jersey Oh jersey That place has a lot of trees and apparently bears which I wasn't aware of until recently because somebody else I know was talking about New Jersey and the bears in New Jersey What? Dumb bears No, but not dumb bears. It's I know I just like to eat a bunch of blackberries and just roll around and shamming fun You jamming blackberries. Maybe a little beehive, you know, it's all good. Oh, man Beehiving I want to hang out in New Jersey now You want to be hive in? Yeah, I want to be hive in Maybe that's the new slang. It's like what you doing and be having jersey. I'd be having I'd be having I'd be having I gotta find my phone. I think my dog ate it Maybe she's beehiving She ain't be having very well Oh behave Hive Oh behave behave Natalia have a wonderful wonderful night. It was I faded the wall. I'm like I have no more no more funny or entertaining things that I could possibly say I feel like that's actually not true, but um, I understand the wall I feel like at this point if we kept going it would be Interesting weird funny because you would be like the smashed thing that hit the wall What comes after that? I don't know the fun things in my life. You don't know who knows What else is in this? Like I said, you have the most interesting drawer. I did find more mushrooms that was Just the things at the bottom of my drawer I just keep it there in the bottom of my drawer just never know when you might need Some psychedelics, you know, like it's it's legal here or decriminalized. Whatever. It's decriminalized Decriminalized, right? Because isn't it decriminalized where you are? Yep Yeah, it is Yeah, what do you think is Great Awesome So next episode will be Kiki and Natalia applying googly eyes and mustaches to hedges On mushrooms I don't know. It's fine. It's just too wild and crazy fun guys It's wild and crazy Don't worry. It's decriminalized. Oh man Don't worry. I'll send you that gray sweatshirt you need to wear so we can be like matty and Oh my god And be wild and crazy Yeah All right, oh my god, okay. Mwah go to sleep in your dark forest. I will go Love your weird cat that likes to kill things. She's seriously looking at me right now like Am I still waiting? Oh my god Yeah Thank you john and i'm glad we're friends now. We follow each other. I think I think it was on youtuber If you're on instagram, I'll follow you and we can be be friends. Yes Or no, it was on facebook. I can't remember. Anyways, this is the fading The fade. The fade. It happens. There's the night and the fade and it's like, ah, you go into the darkness and then you sleep When you breathe like your pug Sleep well Yes, you too. I'll see you soon. I hope so. Yeah. Yes. Let's do it again sometime Yeah, I I have a lot of fun talking science with you. So I really would like to do this again. So Yay, all this. Thanks. This is special Bye Have a great night. Thank you everyone for joining And Natalia sleep well everyone stay safe Stay healthy Stay I don't know whatever you are And curious and of course be lucky