 I am so excited to be here right now. I'm at the Fairmont in Dallas at the Artist in Residence studio of Dan Lam. She does these incredible sculptural pieces. They're colorful, they're weird, they're beautiful. I just wanna touch them or maybe eat them. Anyways, I get to talk to her today and you get to be in on that conversation. These things are engaging, right? They are very colorful, they're very attractive, they're very uncommon. And so I can totally see why this is popular, but how did you ever get to this? So I was in grad school two years ago. I graduated 2014 and while I was in school, I presented something to one of my professors in a studio visit and he was like, well, he's really beautiful, but like, so what? So then all of that, to me, that kind of sparked like this moment of, like I know my work has content. My professor is seeing my work and saying things that lacks content. And so he's kind of qualifying that with, it's beautiful, but so what? You know, so for me, there was something interesting there about this idea of something being beautiful and not having, I guess, something deeper. So I kind of, I followed that kind of thought and I started to like question my own aesthetics and question what is beautiful, what is not beautiful, what happens when you have something that is beautiful but it becomes too much of something. So basically it drove this idea of work that lives between something beautiful and something ugly. Interesting. So that's kind of what drives like my decision-making. I think naturally I tend to go towards like the beautiful, of course, you know, so like even in making these sometimes I'm like, oh, that's gross. Like a moment like that was happening where it's like, that's gross, but that's a good thing. So now I'm becoming more and more interested in this interactive quality that the work has, like you mentioned, like people want to touch that. And so these things that I've made that kind of are ugly and beautiful, people are still very attracted to them, but to the point where they want to actually engage and interact. They want to experience it with touch and not just viewing. And so I like the idea that someone wants to touch so badly, but they can't because it isn't a gallery. So there's a tension that's created there of a desire, but it can't be, that desire can't be met. So, you know, that's kind of like, that's where my idea started and then that's where they're at kind of right now. And the other half of the equation for me is really materials. I'm very process-based. Like a lot of the things I do is just experimenting, playing with materials, using materials in ways that aren't like their primary objective. Yes. You know, if you look at like all of my work as like a full body from like 10 years ago to now, you can definitely see like there's a relationship between the materials I was using and like the sort of flowiness, the aesthetics and I'm still kind of growing and learning with those same kind of things. Interesting, so you just finished grad school? Yes. You've got a lot of education behind you. Yes. How much do you credit school for what you've been able to accomplish? I mean, I think I've always known that I wanted to be an artist. It's always been like a, like I say it's a calling, like I feel it inside. If I don't make stuff, then it like eats away at me. So it's a very, it's been a very natural path for me. School, it both helped me better myself as an artist. It also, there were some things that hindered me, but I think in that way, they were more like challenges. Like for example, like that professor saying like, this is beautiful, but so what? Right, so that could have been, I think potentially like a moment where I'm like, oh, like I don't know. So what? It could have crushed you. Yeah, and I could have turned and it could have gone another way, but I think what it did was it kind of forced me to like stand my ground and also be able to defend my work better. It actually helps to just be able to talk about your work and have like an environment to do that, which then kind of fosters new ideas. Yeah, there's problems solving that happens through discussion with other creative people. And critique was a big part of that. Critique I think is probably a major benefit of school. I think a lot of times artists that I meet like that maybe haven't had school, they're not as used to that critique format where they present their work and I mean, it could be ripped apart. You just grow with your skin because of it. And you also again, learn how to talk about your work or defend your work a little bit better. Yeah, that's so good. On that note about language, like I find that I think that it is a duty of the artist to be able to tell the story of your art, whatever that is. You need to present the viewer with a story around your art. Because oftentimes when we think in stories, right? We're humans, we live storied lives and that's how we process a lot of stuff. And so like, you know, maybe the story is I went on vacation, I saw this artwork, it reminded me of going on vacation, that's why I bought it. Like that's the story. But if the patron doesn't bring that story to the work, then you know, you as the artist, you need to give them a story. You need to give them a story and like tell them why this is valuable or tell them like how you came up with this or whatever it is to bring story to create story around the work. I think it really helps people to, I don't know, just wrap narrative around what it is they're being presented with because oftentimes they don't have language with which to understand it. And so yeah, I do think that language has a lot to do with like it needs to work in conjunction with a visual piece oftentimes, right? Yeah, I agree. I love critique and I hate evaluation. I don't know if you feel the same way, but like I love when someone will help me by pushing my thoughts in a certain direction that I wasn't able to get there on my own, right? So they make me, they challenge my thinking. And I hate it when I was in school and someone would say like this is a A or this is a B or this is a 75%, like what does that even mean? And who are you to say, right? Because this is art after all. And so as an art teacher, I was always so like conflicted about that because my job was to evaluate and give report cards. And yet I felt like my ethical responsibility as an artist and to these kids was to not do that. So there's a lot of conflict there, but one thing that is sort of a way that I got around that was I used to say, tell me what you think was a success with your piece. Tell me what you would like to do better next time or how would you know, something that you would like to improve on next time and tell me what surprised you. And so for you, what do you think you do successfully? What would you like to improve on? And then what surprises you about your process or what has surprised you over the years? I definitely do think that my work as you, I have a strong voice. Yes, you do. And I think that that is probably one of my greater strengths as an artist. As far as the work goes, I think I'm really good with color. Color is like my, it's kind of my jam. Like I'm very, very good with the color. Yeah, you do well, you do well. I, color theories are really interesting. Like it's always in the back of my mind and that's why like a lot of my work when you see like I'm doing all these spikes, it's a very repetitive kind of motion and act. It constantly interests me because I'm dealing with color. So like, you know how a pink looks on a blue is going to look different than how a pink looks on a green or a purple or whatever. So like I'm black or whatever. I'm constantly like learning still from my own process. And I think that answers like what surprises me about my process is basically I'm not going to do anything that isn't interesting to me. If it gets boring, then it's time to move on. And so I'm constantly surprised by like the little discoveries I make. Like, you know, if I pair, there's infinite amounts of colors to pair with one another. So I'll like, I'll learn something new by just throwing in a new color. Do you as an artist say to yourself, okay, now like, you know, here's what I want to do better next time. Or like, you know, I want to change this or maybe it is just, you know, I'm doing everything well, but how do I keep pushing the envelope? Or how do I keep challenging myself? Like, but what do you say about that? Like, how do you, what is your idea about your own self-improvement? I constantly am experimenting with materials. So that's like another way I kind of continue to push myself. There are times when things are uncomfortable and I have to kind of evaluate, like, is that discomfort because something's not right? Or is it because I'm not used to it? And so if it is something I'm not used to, I like to push that. Yeah, so it's like, I think what you're saying is that you need to know when something needs to be abandoned versus when something needs to be pushed further. Yeah, right? Yeah, yeah. So those moments where like I'm uncomfortable, those are like out of comfort, those are like, you know, comfort zone pushing moments. And I think those are really important in the studio. I think it's really important. Yeah, because that's how you grow, right? Right, exactly, yeah. You can't grow unless you challenge yourself. And kids are learning these things all the time and not afraid to go there and not afraid to, you know, find out what will be down past A, B, and C. And then there's something that happens somewhere along the line. It's like, adults think that they don't need to do that. Why? Because they have a full-time job. No, like, I don't think that creativity is the best way to learn, period. Like to really fully learn and never forget and have it really like shape your mind in new ways. It's creativity is the way to go. I agree. What do you say to those kids who are, you know, they are just artistically inclined? Yeah. Maybe they're hearing, like, the messages about, like, ah, you don't want to be a serving artist. What do you say to those kids? I think it's really important to continue to be creative. I don't think you should ever stop. I think I definitely would encourage kids to just continue making things, even if it's not like the career path or like the thing that they're gonna continue doing for the rest of their lives. As a job, as a primary, like, moneymaker, it's so really important to continue creative endeavors. Even if it is just a hobby, though, I think, like, it's important to make the time for it. It's important to give it, like, your energy and your focus when you're spending time on it. And I think that passion transcends in the work, right? Like, if you love it, then it's almost like a viewer can tell when they look at your work, right? Like, I can tell. The energy's there. Yeah. I am so excited by your work, actually, because I just find it so different. And I think that I'm really excited by people who are okay to just abandon everything and abandon all, like, expectation and, you know, your parents' wishes for you and just say like, I am just gonna do it and I'm just gonna trust the creative process and just go with it and see what happens, you know? And if you do it enough, you're gonna come up with something pretty cool, right? Hopefully. Thank you so much for inviting us into the space. I love all of it. I'm so happy that we were able to come here. And I just wish you all the best. I think you're stuffed amazing. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it.