 Good afternoon. Good evening everyone. Thank you all for being here. Splendid show to see so many eager faces both here in the room, and we have a number of people participating on Zoom, so It's quite a nice crowd. Thank you for being here My name is Paul Lakeland. I direct our University Center for Catholic Studies, and This is the third of three sessions this semester in which we've been looking at different aspects of the question How should Catholic universities be? Faithful to their mission in connection with issue X issue Y and so on. So last time we met here Three weeks ago, I think We looked at the question How do we serve the underserved? So we're looking at what do Catholic institutions in general? Do what's their record? How faithful are they to the ideals that they claim to have? Then second issue is to bring it a little closer to home and ask well, how are we doing? relative to what everyone else is doing and relative to what our mission is and then third How can we do better? This time we are looking at the question of racial justice and a Particular issue in the whole range of things we could talk about connected to racial justice namely the case for reparations But within that framework we've got really these three issues going how the Catholic institutions What's the report card on Catholic institutions around the country? How is Fairfield doing relative to them relative to its own? Stated principles and What could we do better? So to help us address these issues We have three distinguished members of the university community To my and I'm going to let each of them say a little bit about who they are individually as they do their Make their remarks, but they are to my to my immediate right. So you're looking to my left You'll aim a felicon from student affairs to she Patel a senior here at the university and Dr. Shannon King from the history department. So each of them In turn we'll talk for a few minutes Then we would love to have questions and comments from this group and from the people online and Perhaps they'll interact with one another a bit and we will be wrapping everything up Around five o'clock or if we all get really excited a few minutes after that so I'm going to step away and leave it to them in a moment But I just want to say one thing for the benefit of people watching online If you're watching online and you wish to ask a question You've probably figured this out by now But in cases is the first time you can type a question into the Q&A By hitting the Q&A button on your screen and type in the question And I will be monitoring the questions on my iPad and I will pass them along to the To the panel here at the end of their presentations So if you if you people online have any questions, that's how you ask them and the great benefit there is You can ask it the moment it comes into your head The good people in front of me here can think of a question and then forget it Don't do that. Okay, so So without more ado, I am going to step aside and I am going to give the floor to Yolema Felican over to you Thank you so much Paul Well, good evening everyone and thank you so much for joining us here today as Paul said my name is Yolema Felican I'm the associate director of students diversity and multicultural affairs. I've been at the university back at the university for about four years I'm an alumna of the university So I'm just happy to be back and happy to engage with y'all and have a conversation So to start off as as Paul mentioned what we'll be discussing today Just wanting to talk about what Catholic universities Are doing just you know all across the world to show that the responsibility Of becoming anti-racist, right? And with that question, you know, it put it prompts the question of what is anti-racist, right? So before we even get into what we're doing What is it? So anti-racist is the opposition of racism But not only just opposing racism and knowing that racism, you know, is wrong or bad or whatever the case may be but to actively fight against racism and also to dismantle systems that are in place that contribute and or are explicitly racist With that said, there's a lot of different Catholic universities all across the world that are doing different things But as a collective even before getting into the specifics One of the things when doing this work is being vulnerable being empathetic and compassionate when it comes to working with underserved populations to really understand the needs of underserved populations Some of the things that universities Catholic universities are doing That I've noticed is one of the things they're having a explicit Anti-racist statement. So it is holding the University accountable when we talk about what is it that you're doing? What is it that you're committing to? It's making a commitment and it's standing in solidarity explicitly And another piece is also doing what you say that you're going to do in this commitment and not only having it You know on your website, but again, it shows Externally everyone who would look at the website who would learn about the institution that this is the values and the belief system of the university Collaborating just as a university when that comes to Inclusive excellent centers when it comes to diversity centers really leaning on on professionals To help do the work and understand that it takes a commitment of everyone to to really become anti-racist Again accountability is very very important Understanding that we don't know everything that they don't know all that there is to know but again leaning on external factors leaning on Campus partners to to really collectively do the work Programs and initiatives are really important, right? So part of it part of that that anti-racist Statement is a start, right? It's saying what we're committed to doing what we plan on doing But then the programs and initiatives is doing the work. It's those action steps Collectively so that's just some of the some of the points that Catholic universities are doing across the world But I did want to highlight and just point out a few different Catholic universities and kind of just name them one of the ones Which is actually the largest Catholic institution in the nation, which is DePaul University Having a very visible anti-racist statement So if you were to go on the website to see, you know the morals and the values of the institution You would be able to see this information Another one that I just wanted to oh and I'm gonna backtrack because this is a really important one Institutionalized training when it comes to diversity and equity And inclusion work as well as promoting anti-racist work because a lot of times when it comes to anti-racism Sometimes folks don't know where to start It's like you want to fight the good fight But how and if institutions don't allow this opportunity for you to be an ally and to fight this good fight sometimes, you know Folks will remain stagnant or not know where to turn But it's the mission and the the obligation essentially of Catholic institutions to be able to provide this for its larger campus community to make sure that we are standing in solidarity and actually fighting towards To be anti-racist so I did want to Look at Xavier Which talks about becoming an anti-racist university and I just wanted to read off their anti-racist statement Xavier recognizes that the lived experiences of individuals who are black indigenous persons of color Have been marked by racial biases aggression and other discriminatory Practices in alignment with our Jesuit values to walk as Companions with the marginalized oppressed and vulnerable and to work for justice We have pledged to fight against all manifestations of racism in Inequity at Xavier our commitment outlined by the university's anti-racist action plan is transformational and Touches every area at Xavier including academics student life and employee relations This website will serve as a resource and communication hub for an up-to-date information as we enhance our efforts to promote racial justice equity and inclusion at Xavier and work towards authentic change and Even with the ending when we talk about being authentic Authenticity also goes hand-in-hand when it comes to vulnerability when we're talking about walking with the marginalized or You know serving the underserved populations And with that just some of the things that I wanted to highlight with offices They have an office of institutional diversity Center for diversity and include an inclusion Presidents diversity and inclusion action and advisory council, but then there's just tons of different programs that promote Anti-racist work and I just want to highlight just a few of them such as there's actually an ally Program an anti-racist ally program that they have Aspiring anti-racist allies, so it's it's that point of don't know where to start But you're able to be in a room of like-minded individuals to do this work For Catholics, there's a commitment and an obligation to be anti-racist So with that said I'm going to pass it over Thank you, Yulema. I am teacher Patel a senior behavioral neuroscience and international studies several major With minors in peace and justice studies and humanitarian action is quite a mouthful So I always regret when someone asked me what my majors are in regards to what Yulema just said as well like accountability and reconciliation that does require Acceptance and so to answer the question of what are we doing? Well, and what could we do better? I think it ties into what you just said and taking accountability for what has happened on this campus In terms of what we do well on this campus It was a little hard to come up with answers for that I will say it's taken me a week to reflect upon it and to really When I first was asked that I was completely absent-minded about what we do well But I think in recent and past weeks. It's solidarity. What we do well is that we do show up for one another the support of professors of faculty of students in The protest in the weeks that we're following with dialogues that is something that we have grown in I won't I will say I've been here for four years and that hasn't always been very visible or very evident We've been progressing in that and there's been growth in that and I think that needs to continue And that ties into what we could still do better is Having that vulnerable conversation recognizing that not all of us will ever have an answer So I don't have a full concrete answer as I set up here on what we have done Well, or what we could do better because I'm still learning And it's being able to admit that it's being able to admit that we make mistakes It's being able to admit that we don't always know that having that dialogue with others It's engaging those conversations and it's calling people in a great mentor of mine And I think you can also attest to that Ophelia row Allen. She used to have this phrase instead of calling people out She would say call people in instead of attacking people on their opinions and their viewpoints Call them into a conversation call them in with your own vulnerability I think also in regards to representation. I do believe we are doing well when it comes to trying out Programs and initiatives, but that also requires Proper representation when it comes to boards the majority of our board are white men That doesn't accurately Represent the world in itself, but it does accurately represent the majority of our population on campus And if we want to have that change and we want better representation It means having those spaces within boards within trustees and within offices and committees where that representation doesn't does exist Not just calling them in not just inviting them to have a conversation or share their own story But genuinely having that space for them and including them with actual action Not just because we need to fill a quota or have a number And I think the other thing is and this is often met with a lot of anger I've expressed it as well and I've had friends that have also expressed it But falsely using advertisement to convey proper representation on this campus is wrong And I think we also have to address that is having marketing Properly represent the campus to falsify Marketing with here's a diverse community. That doesn't always stay true And also seeing it as humans I think when we try to implement initiatives when we try to implement change we forget that's not just statistics It's actual human experiences. It's actual human trauma And yeah I'll pass it over dr. King Good late afternoon, my name is Shannon King associate professor of history and director of black studies I've been here since fall of 2019. Although I feel like I'm still new to the institution Because of COVID and we've all been Covered up with our mouse. So it's wonderful to see you all some of you without your mouth So I was asked to talk a little bit about reparations and perhaps it's The case of reparations and so what I wanted to do is define it a little bit And so a very basic definition of reparations would be to repair wrong doings, right? And and a way to think about that is Thinking about how might we define a wrong doing and if we're talking about people of color What are the groups in this country? that have been Mistreated in particular ways historically and currently right so those are some basic ways of thinking about it in an abstract way Of course, we could get much more historical And that's what I wanted to do a little bit because that's my training and so in the case of African Americans We might think about the institution of slavery And so for just a little context for slavery and this is something that I've learned through Conversations with my nieces and nephews students friends colleagues, etc. Who? Have a sense of what slavery was but didn't necessarily know how long it lasted when it began What exactly was with slavery right and so some of them have a sort of abstract idea about Slavery as it was raised. It was a racist institution So slavery was a racist institution, but it was also an economic institution, right? And was also a political institution. So that's important to to consider and so if we think of An individual who was a slave for ten years. Let's imagine that that individual Does not have political or economic rights was physically abused and for ten years worked Without being paid, but if we combine that to millions of Slaves and if we think about how slavery began before the founding of this country Then and it ended in 1865 then, you know, that's a really long time So just to give you some numbers or dates approximately depending upon What state but we could say that the institution of slavery in North America began around the 1640s, right? And so obviously that's a hundred plus years Before the founding of the United States and then it lasted once for another Hundred years or so so that's Hundreds of years of unfreed labor That you know are clearly connected to African Americans and this country's wealth We might also talk about How the United States not only did it have the institution of slavery, but it also Occupied different countries such as Haiti between 1915 and 19 to 1934 and Controlled its finances for another 20 years. That's another way of thinking about Reparations for example wrongdoing violence, etc Other there are other programs that we could identify that whites had access to even after slavery or just before slavery ends in 1865 such as a homestead act in 1862 or the southern homestead act in 1866 or the federal housing administration's mortgage insured loans between 1934 and 1968 and so I'm just giving a sense of Various ways that African Americans were either Excluded or and or whites had access to Resources from the federal state and local governments that African Americans didn't have access to so that's one way of thinking about it other ways of thinking about reparations Could be apologizing for slavery or apologizing for wrongdoing, right? Other approaches have been thinking about reparations through litigation for example 1921 the Tulsa riot Tulsa the Tulsa black community was known as black Wall Street and African Americans They are managed to build wealth and though their homes were burned down Then they were killed and they lost all their businesses and you know, that's enough That's one approach and so there are various ways of thinking about it now So that's the sort of historical context. I do think though that reparations Could be understanding different ways. It doesn't always have to be about money it could be about different kinds of ways of Engaging these questions and honest ways Through programs resources, etc That I think are important to at least at the very least acknowledging some sense of wrongdoing like what what happened Why it happened when it happened and how we implicated all of us, right? and and I think that plays out differently depending upon the place and time right so what Reparations might look like at Georgetown University. Some of you may know that One of the ways that Georgetown University's kept afloat in a 19th century was through selling of slaves And they sold the slaves and they were able to keep the universities together. And so I think Do you recall maybe in the last 10 or 15 years? They created a program where they provide an education for a descendants of slaves in in Washington, DC and Baltimore-Marilyn era for example at Fairfield that would look very different right or the Bronx New York and Fordham University That might look very different right and so I think a lot of that has to do with having productive conversations About these issues. It may not be African Americans. It could be Native Americans, right? It could be Asian Americans for example if we're talking about the West Coast, right? So there's various ways of thinking about How and I forgot to press my timer, so I'm gonna stop there, but But I'll stop there, but that's a little sense of the case of reparations And sort of how it may look different depending upon the place and time etc. etc I actually just want to add thank you both As we're talking about reparations and the in the way of repairing, right? I want to get back to the question about what's Fairfield University doing and what we can do better So some sort of things that we do well or what we're currently doing I'll say Is addressing right like starting to bring in these conversations To the forefront acknowledging acknowledging that this is happening That things are still happening in the world addressing that that racism still exists right a lot of people would like to Think that racism doesn't exist because it's not overt Because they're not members of the Ku Klux Klan or or that that's you know not still at the forefront, right? But it's very much still happening in covert ways and to not you know Deny that fact is one of the things that Fairfield is doing in different departments and throughout the University So again Acknowledging what things that we can do better because when we go back to what anti-racism is when we go back to what we can Be doing better is moving past the acknowledging stage and we have to move past just the addressing stage But we have to move into the action stage and we have to move into the action stage of addressing policies That contribute to racism potentially, right? When you talk about anti-racism, we're talking about policies that contribute policies that that keep Underrepresented folks oppressed and things of that nature, right and one of the examples that I'll just be very you know Straightforward with because it just really Had a shift in the climate at the University and made a lot of underrepresented and marginalized students feel Unwelcomed and unsupported on campus, which is the remove the Black Lives Matter flag now It said that that went against policy and though that may be true It's a time where you have to rethink well What is that policy and how is it making people feel and and how are we advancing the institution with the policies that we have in Place because of course policies are in place for a reason we don't want to go against certain policies necessarily, right? But sometimes it's imperative that we rethink these policies in order to become a truly anti-racist Community and anti-racist institution In ways that we can continue to do that and move towards that route is having a chief diversity officer is having Institutionalized diversity trainings when we come on campus We have to do a lot of different trainings in the very beginning of the year Whether that is students faculty staff as a collective community because we are saying this is important We want to do you know bystander trainings or suicide prevention trainings And we want to do all these other trainings because they are so important And we have to put at the forefront that diversity equity and inclusion and becoming an anti-racist institution is equally important To add to that point also like the programs initiatives shouldn't just fall onto the owners of the SDMA office either It should be every single office on campus that takes that part and takes that onus and creating that change too. Oh Well, thank you for whoo. Thank you for an initial set of remarks We're gonna get you to talk to one another a bit more as we go along Before we let you do that Let's see if anyone here wants to respond to anything that any of the three have said or ask a little more Information about it or challenge it While you are thinking about What you want to ask? Professor Merritt has a question We need to use this for the people online Thank you so much for your comments and for this panel in general I think it's so important for us to have these conversations in general But especially in light of what's been going on in campus these past few weeks I just have a general question about the Difference of a discrimination statement verse that are an anti-discrimination statement and an anti-racist statement and the the importance of That distinction and how those two statements speak to two different realities and how faculty can Use the the differentiations of those statements, but also the institution in general Anyone want to take that? Just to make sure I understand the question the difference between Discrimination and racism is that I'm okay with starting and feel free to chime in but I think How I would respond to that is that they go hand-in-hand in the sense because Discrimination is a part or a contributor when it comes to racism So I would just honestly I would just say that they they go hand-in-hand and half are like equally Valuable or important when we're doing this work. So it's when we talk about discrimination We talk about racism and anti-racism when we have to address Those discriminatory statements and things of that sort in order to move forward into being anti-racist and address those it and work Through those though those different things. So maybe it won't be an outright or maybe it's not an outright anti-racist statement per se But it's a it's a contributor if that that's what we answered your question and anyone feel free to Kind of chime in Yeah I was gonna say language does matter and I would say that as you say like they go hand-in-hand And it shouldn't be the absence of either within a statement I think having both within a statement would be more powerful and more Useful I guess is not necessarily what I'm going for but impactful as it calls it out It calls it and it does it doesn't just avoid saying it I think I think we're often afraid of saying anti-racism or racism, but we have to say and we have to include it Thank you for the question. So one way of thinking about it is that discrimination is the category and Racism is the kind or sexism is the kind right? So if you're anti-racist Then that's targeting a particular issue as opposed to discrimination, which is broader So that's one way of thinking about it another way of thinking about it And this is how Historian or political scientists or a sociologist might think about it is that racism generally pertains to not just individuals but institutions and groups right whereas an individual can be discriminated against And the difference is is that when a person of color is generally discriminated against they're not only Discriminate generally right? They're not only discriminated by the particular action. Let's say of an individual, but also the ways in which Institution support what that individual is doing, right? So the the most prominent example could be how we talk about policing in this country Some of us might think of it as a good or a bad Apple approach, right? And we might focus on individuals where another approach would be thinking about Policing as police institutions and what they do as institutions Beyond the individual action, right? So that's what one way and generally when folks are talking about An anti-racist approach. They're really talking about historic and current Ways that institutions policies and practices, right? So it's all three institutions policies and practice produce a racist outcome sometimes perpetuated by Individual which might be which is different from how a person might be discriminated against But that but that individual is not part of a group that has been The oppressed at the institution practice or policy level Could we just follow up a little bit on on to she's statement that words matter, right? So, you know Somehow here we tend to try to use the blander words when we can you know, so of course Institutionally, we're against discrimination We might even want to say we're not racist, but we don't want to say we're anti-racist and so with that kind of thought I wanted to come back to to something that Yulema had said you referred to our Commitment to inclusive excellence We used to call it radical hospitality and that didn't seem to ring the right bell. So we went to inclusive excellence. I Just wonder if that too is a kind of Weasel word to get around what it is that we should be seeking to be I mean, could we be talking? We'd be using the language of solidarity better than Inclusive excellence it sounds lovely, but any thoughts on that anybody I think When it comes to inclusive excellence, I just think of Really everyone thriving, you know uniformly or together right so essentially, you know in solidarity with But I don't necessarily think that it needs to be a change in in that, you know language, but more so Moving towards Additional language, right because I know that we still use radical hospitality, right? We used inclusive excellence, but one of the things when we talk about words and as we're on the language piece of things A lot of things have become a buzzword, right? And I just call it out for what it is It's like, you know, we say diversity we say say space we say inclusive excellence We say radical hospitality and we say all these things and it's like what does it mean? Like what are we actually saying? So I think when we use these words it really is it depends on what exactly we're looking, you know What's our goal? What are we looking to do as we're using this language when we say inclusive excellence? What are we actually doing? What are we using it to promote, right? Because if we're saying inclusive excellence and what we really are promoting is, you know anti-racism Then we need to say anti-racism, right? So we have to think back to what is our mission? What is our goal and how are we executing that but how are we also using the appropriate language to do just that, right? And with that I'm just gonna kind of go I'm probably gonna go off just a little bit But when we talk about even the term BIPOC, right? We talk about people of color When it comes to representation when it comes to identity when it comes to language You know some people identify me as a woman of color, which yes, that's true But I'm a black woman, right? And sometimes when we use certain language It's to remove identities or to not call it out for what it is for whatever reason that may be and we have to get Comfortable with saying this is where we are and this is where we stand because a lot of times and how I call it for lack Of better terms is really a cop out, right? We're saying certain things because we don't want to say that other thing So it kind of leaves us in a comfortable area and we really have to get comfortable with being uncomfortable We really anti-racist work is a lot of work. It's mentally exhausting. It's emotionally exhausting It is draining but we have to do the work but going back again to language We have to you know, not just use language. That's comfortable not just language that as Paul said sounds good, right? Inclusive excellent sounds great But think back to what it is that is our mission what it is that we are aiming to do and use the language that is appropriate for such Yeah, so You know, I think thinking about this question historically Not just in terms of this institution, I mean I think Most institutions in the 21st century want to appear anti-racist and so They they are going to use catch words that are familiar to most folks and You know these things have a history and again, you know, I'm a historian, you know in the past We might have used diversity or multiculturalism or integration Assimilation there's been all kinds of words to get at these questions From a social movement perspective And here I'm thinking about You know black social movements in the 60s and 70s I mean they were less interested in integration and inclusivity and they were more interested in transformation, right? So even if we were to read someone like Martin Luther King, Jr. You know, he was interested interested in transformation. And so For me regardless of what the word is the question is What are the actual goals and outcomes and actions? I think that that gets back to what you were talking about before You know, what are the commitments of the board of trustees and those kinds of things? How can we tie language to actual institutions or programs here and Solutions that ought to be measured to determine if those things are fulfilled, etc. Right, you know real things, right? That we expect of any institution. I don't think Fairfield should be any different All right, we've softened you out. We've warmed you up. Come on ask a question. Someone must be wondering about something Other than what's for dinner Yes, thank you So you were talking about using language as a means of more fully addressing what actions need to be taken and what like progress we can make going forward but I Would kind of say like we need to acknowledge that before progressive actions can be taken and like real steps can be taken with the action Or with the language that we're using With the most efficacy Don't you think we need to first step back and address and weed out the flaws with the system and as to institution itself? like you were talking about the The policies that need to be taken out like wouldn't you say it's more so important to emphasize That effort rather than trying to create new languages and more fully describe ways that we can go moving forward My response to this is easy absolutely Absolutely, we have to I mean that was in response to Languages important right like just what we say and and how we say it and making sure that it lines up But absolutely we first need to look at what those policies are and we need to dismantle the systems That contribute and or are explicitly racist at the end of the day And sometimes that to your point it can actually influence the language that we're using right because you're looking at Well, what are we looking to do so in the same in the same respect? It's like we're making sure that the language lines up with the goals and the mission and what we're looking to do But even before that we have to think of What the mission is and what we're aiming to do right and even finding a word or or a topic or whatever The case may be to make sure that it's suitable for such but it's less about what the language is in that respect And more about obviously the action steps and the work that we're doing it and again dismantling systems and you know We're looking at policies and also with policy I'll also just say that it's important to look at where the world is We know that the world is changing and evolving and just you know looking at who's in the room when we're making these policies right because I Think it's fair to say that some policies that are still in place that have been in place for X number of years is not reflective of the people that it's looking to serve today Right, so we have to look at who's in the room today. Who are we serving when we talk about? Serving the underserved we have to think about who it is that we're serving who are we serving right the underserved population is Massive it's expansive, but we have to think through okay This is the group that we're serving again Who is in the room and also when we talk about decision makers who is not in the room? Tushy earlier was talking about representation who's not in the room when we're making these decisions whose voice is not being amplified when We're having these conversations right we talked about senior leadership being largely white men right There's tons of underserved folks that are not in that room even though there might be You know one or two people from different areas or from underserved identities But again that in of itself is difficult because it's like you know You feel that you're carrying that entire community on your back and being the spokesperson for that you know individual Community but to answer your question absolutely someone else yeah Um pertaining to the progression of internalized training Do you believe that a title six report should be filed overruling a victim of racist remarks wishes not? Even if they wish not to So when someone reports to like an RA or a mandated reporter in confidence Do you think that the mandated reporter should file a title six over the overruling? The victim of racist remarks wishes No extracted to anyone, okay, it's a question about confidentiality, right? Yeah. Yeah Sorry, can you can you connect the dots a little bit better? Right and and how is the training part connected to that? Ah So you mean sort of sort of the kind of training that The reporter would receive or the student in terms of Oops, sorry Yeah, that's a legal question. I mean, I think it's difficult What I will say about that and This is not answering your question unfortunately, but just sort of getting at the spirit of it Which is about confidentiality and safety, right? I think that's the nature of the question You know, I think it's really important and there are potential consequences In a different frame, we might call that person a whistleblower, right? and You know, I think that's a personal choice It would be great if institutions created resources and and Institutions that could protect students and others faculty staff in a way to report those kinds of Instances so they don't they don't feel unsafe. I mean just to pull back This is why I focus on institutions, right? Because oftentimes Institutions can continue to engage in racist practices partly because Or sexist practices partly because folks are afraid to report these kinds of things and sometimes news institutions May be more committed to the story and less committed to the safety. I mean, I think it's a really complicated Situation that isn't exactly answer your question, but I appreciate the question because it's a really important one To add to that it's also as an alright like that is a very much of a legal question But that also calls to the point of what our safe spaces that we do have What are those resources that we can have on campus if they are limited like how do we expand those opportunities to have that I Would add as we're saying it's it's a legal question That makes me think about again policy, right? If it's a legal question It's it's the system that is in place. So we have to think through those systems essentially And if there if there's an opportunity for you know, animinity Potentially right to say that this is happening and I think for just You know vert the university to to know that this is going on right the person may say You know, I'm not gonna say that you know, Bob told me that this is happening You know to him again to not to protect the individual But to know I think that it's important for the university to know that this is a real thing And this is going on here on this campus and regardless of who it happened to understanding that it happened to a student To anyone on campus in the campus community then something needs to happen, right? And even focusing in that regard on the the larger community versus the individual because I believe there's a reason as to why that Individual, you know wanted to either be anonymous or not wanting, you know to share that right but still needing like to which You mentioned like that safe space But more I guess closer to answer your question without answering your question, right? is talking about Policies in place and how we rethink those things right because if we ever have to say, oh, that's a tough one Like that's a legal question or like, you know And it's kind of between a rock and a hard place the policy is the thing that is is the rock in the hard place that we have to Figure out how we're navigating that Of course the policy has to follow the law, right? Yeah, I mean Well, law is in policy like law policy. I mean hand in hand when we talk about law I mean slavery was legal, right? So when we talk about what's legal and legal questions and we talk about the law They all go hand-in-hand as well So a couple of you raised good questions. We have a third one here Come on. Somebody's burning to ask Sure, I said White folks really like to be forgiven. We like to rush to forgiveness and dr. King mentioned Economic reparations that apologizing can repair harm and legislation and Often when people apologize, they think they've been forgiven. Can you share about? Where forgiveness plays or does not play a part in the reparation process? Thank you. So I Was stating that's one form You know, I think forgiveness is important I think the The model is South Africa and reconciliation, right? I do think though That that can be a little too easy Because Part of what I think a lot of us are saying is that these issues aren't the past. They're the present, right? And What that means is that We are we continue to be injured in ways that are less visible because It appears that laws have made us first-class citizens, right? So just to give a quick example We might talk about the Great Recession and the subprime loans which targeted black and brown working-class people right And that's in most of our lifetime but most folks don't recognize that as an example of institutionalized racism another related example Could be but different Is how you know, this country Gives all kinds of tax opportunities for for institutions and businesses and enterprises One way to describe that would be welfare But when conversations around reparations come up it often becomes easy for some to either ignore or to View these issues as simply a hand out, right? With that said, I do think an apology and forgiveness is a first step I also think that it's something that has to be a process and From a sort of social justice approach It would include the injured Right, and it would be about the injured feeling as if Their grievances acknowledged, right? I mean there are various ways and approaches that that happens Which requires more than a few words of apology, right? And you know, I think that you know part of it goes back to and you know, I Don't think you guys needed me. I think we could just listen to Tushy and Yelima, but Yelima Mentioned training. I mean there are people who Know how to do these things and can provide resources Strategies and practices for all of the for a lot of these things And these could be things that our institution invests in in addition to our chief diversity equity inclusion officer I'll call that home, but if I can also just add something that I say is That can be a first step, but the best apology is change behavior Right, so we actually have to do the work and by change behavior. I mean doing the work By change behavior, I don't just mean that like you were doing something wrong But it's part of doing the work to be anti-racist right not to say like oh my god I'm just so sorry that that happened to you and like just apologizing and then again recognizing why you're doing what you're doing Is it to bear the weight off of your shoulders to feel like I did something like I contributed because I apologize I acknowledge that but what else did you do right? It's it's it's actively doing the work in that apology It's kind of that idea of show don't tell right like I'm sorry that this happened And we're in we're in the current now or this is happening right because as we recognize and acknowledge today That it still happens right so what are we doing about that? It's it's really to be an agent of change in this environment through that apology because there's different ways to apologize Right some people just say I'm sorry But some people actually show it through actions and doing certain things and advocating and learning how to be allies And so on and so forth so what is your apology look like and I think that's really what people have to come to terms with Is what that apology looks like even in those beginning stages, right? So that's what that's what I'll add I'll add to what both of you said but I strongly believe and to put it concisely forgiveness begins with yourself And I don't just mean like okay I did that and like that's what happened but forgiveness in the sense of Why did that happen challenging yourself in the sense of we already as an institution spirituality and self-reflection values that we stand by Reflecting upon that genuinely questioning yourself. Why did that happen? What caused it? What are those unconscious and subconscious biases that exist in my life? And how can I change that into action? And I think that's where the action lies it starts with yourself and recognizing that so we have a and a question from the online group From beard your mother and it's a bit like the question. I was going to ask So I'm going to put them both together and it follows up on the reparations issue. So Be out your questions this how do you dialogue with others who see no need for reparations? Since they were not perpetrators like their ancestors and thus do not feel responsible for what happened in the past and The question I was going to ask which is somewhat similar to that was Well, why does it matter the Fairfield Fairfield was founded long after Slavery we weren't we're not like Georgetown. We don't live off the inheritance of selling slaves so Just to some of what I said, and I don't know if I said it too quickly Some of the policies Government policies that I mentioned were post slavery as I said the 18th will not post labor 1862 homestead act the southern homestead act the New Deal programs Part of the part of what's important about those various political Actions is that their wealth Garnering So that's purchasing land it's passing down wealth It means equity, right so part of the reason why Identified those particular policies is that the way we tend to gain wealth Part it part of it is salary, but part of it is passing down assets to your Children and grandchildren, and so if you had access to those different policies and therefore Although you may not have been alive or maybe your Grandparent had access to the federal housing administration loan. It is very likely that You are benefiting from that wealth part of what we know is that a lot of the wealth disparities between blacks and whites is precisely because of that moment between 1934 1968 and that folks are Have benefited from that So that's one way of thinking about it another another way Beyond you know beyond the sort of economic and political way is that if you're committed to these issues, right? And if you believe that there is wrongdoing then I do think it's important for one to Get involved through action Around these questions That's partly why when I gave the example Between Georgetown and Fairfield. I mean part of it was getting at You know the historic differences, but how reparations could look different depending upon the institutions is similar to the gentleman's question Around studying right, so I don't know and you know, I don't know if we have any Connecticut and Fairfield University or Fairfield County experts But I'm pretty sure there are various ways to think through and discuss Our county's history regarding Native Americans African Americans and others and If we are truly committed to these issues, we could certainly play a part in Doing that research in being committed to actions, etc. Etc. So I you know, I'm not necessarily an advocate of the of the of limiting these conversations to slavery Because I do think they're ongoing so, you know just in a simple way as I said in terms of the comparison that I made between Sort of how Businesses profit from our taxes and that a lot of us don't realize that we're supporting these big businesses That are incredibly wealthy and exploitative such as Amazon for example I do think that we could also Use our tax monies for something where we can agree that there was some form of wrongdoing I Think we I don't know if you were referring to this, but you know, we do have a Fairfield slavery project That was what certainly showed that slavery is not something that only existed down south Okay, so Ladies and gentlemen, you haven't been very talkative except for a couple of very brave people Thank you both, but you have been attentive or at least quiet. So thank you very much for being here Can you join me in a round of applause for our panel? And if you want to come to another event and not ask a question Tomorrow evening at 7 30 in the event space at the School of Business is the annual Jewish Christian Engagement lecture it will be a lot of fun. See you there