 Did I tell you guys we got the grant for NRCS for between River Drive and so we actually they sent some some initial paperwork for that and I'm just going to pull it off. So we got approved for under $33,000. I'll forward those to you after the work's out. That's enough to respond. That's the actual app that she came in to today. Alright, make a motion to call the meeting in order. Okay, meeting is called order at 6.02. So we have some public presence, public present. Welcome. We also have some media present. We have Onion River or Community Access who's filming and another gentleman just walked in. I'm expecting some people to come about the parking thing. I know the jurekis were coming. I heard from them that they canceled or are not coming. Go ahead and start. Are you? Good for you. Okay. Start us out with correspondence. Joyce, are you here for the parking petition or any of them in particular or no? I'm just coming to you. Okay, I just I just wanted to if you were here for something I wanted to hear it. All right, so the first is highway and bridge restrictions for from vTrans. We received this. I think this just has to be forwarded to George because I'm not it talks about the different highway bridges in town and what their restrictions are and wait restrictions. I think this should get forwarded to George. Second was just a correction for the equalization study results. And that was dealt with by the treasurer and the solicitors, I believe. So this is just an FYI that they did the CLA. There was a corrected number that came out. We have the VLCT news if anybody wants that. We have some other correspondence. First is ARC, the ARC newsletter. We have the November and December financials. There you go. She wants us to go through these if we have any specific questions just to reach out to her and talk to her. This is left by the telephone clerk. Now it's corresponded. See what your record is here. So I'll hold off on that for now. Oh, yeah, sorry. I just wanted to check with you. I do have one set of minutes for approval, which is January 16th. So that was one of the one of the special amendments to the agenda was it was January 16th, not the Senate that we had to do approval of minutes. And this was the budget meeting that we had the other day. So I make a motion to approve. Anyone seconding that? Yeah, the minutes. Yeah, just for the budget meeting we did the other day. Have some other correspondence to go through real quickly. So we're going to go to correspondence number seven, which would be the census, which isn't on there. What was six? Six was the one we just read the town clerk letter. So seven is this came in. This is about boundaries. I think it probably she got forwarded to George or maybe the listeners office. It's about town boundaries and its verification of the boundaries. And it's going to be returned by and this is just for the Census Bureau and they would like it back by March 1st. So we have to decide who we're going to send that to. I think maybe we would have better records than George, I think, for boundaries. Okay, so I'll just forward it to the listeners then. Okay, so this will get forwarded to the listeners. Do we know what are you going to let us know what six was? Or what was in the letter? Isn't it public record when it's out? Yeah, so I gave it to Town Council read for a minute because I just got it and I want to make sure how to proceed with that. I'm not 100%. That's if you want to make a note of that. So I would suggest that this be tabled to discuss at the next meeting after there's been further investigation because I can't really tell from this letter what exactly happened. I'm really confused. And I don't feel that it's, I think it's having just had it handed to me at this moment. I feel like I would need more information to comment on whether we should go forward on discussion on it tonight. I don't know if anyone else thinks. I would ask that it be tabled next week. Okay, I'm not, I mean I don't even know it today. Yeah, I'm kind of, it's sort of, all right, so essentially it's, it is, it's a, it's an additional complaint from the town park. And that's really all I'm going to get into right now until, until I've had a chance to read it. I just read it right now for the first time. So, Well, I think the question is why would you submit it to, and put it on the agenda? It was left for correspondence for me when I, when I came here. So I mean, you know, I entered it as correspondence. So, which it is, I mean it is correspondence. It was left. You know, it's, it's, you know, right. So I think we'll table this until, until the next meeting. And we will go forward from there. And that's under the advice of council. Okay. I, I just wondering, is it the same complaint about Ann? Or this is a new complaint It's a new complaint. And it's about somebody else. I think it's rolled into the same thing, but it's not. It's, I think under the advice of council, as I just read it and handed it to her, I'm going to hold off commenting on it. And I think, you know, it's, it's unfortunate. But like I said, council is, it's not something that was planned on being addressed here. You know, it's something that has to be addressed, obviously. And, and we're going to take, we're going to make a motion towards that earlier complaint tonight. You know, I got some advice from council. I got some advice from, from VLCT as to make a motion. And I have it on that letter. Are you going to talk to all the statements in that letter? Or is it just what the town clerk has to say? No, I think it's going to have to be another complaint, another investigation, another separate incident, I think. Yeah. Yeah. It doesn't seem including talking to everybody involved in the letter. Right. So we just weren't prepared for it tonight. Yeah. I mean, I wasn't prepared for it. And I, and I'm going to, I'm not trying to be evasive in any way. I'm trying to just, my town council advised that we table it until we have a clear idea of what's going on. And by reading that letter, I don't have a huge clear idea of what happened. I could, you know, I think we could also just say that it is something that just happened this afternoon. So we don't really have all the facts, all the information. And I can't even tell from reading this what happened. So I don't think it's appropriate. But all the participants that she's claiming in there will be discussed before. We will. So you hear all sides of stories and not just one side. We're not looking to hear one side of anything. Okay. I'm not looking to hear one side of anything. Yes, we will. It'll be handled. It'll be handled the way the proper procedures and the public will be made aware of it once we decide on how to go forward with proceeding on it. It's not a conflict of interest complaint. It's not, it's, you know, another complaint alleging, you know, harassment in the workplace, basically. I think that comments that are not respectful or are inappropriate here. So I would keep your comments to yourself, please. Okay, as long as it goes through the proper channels that have been set up, that you actually wrote, Mary Lou. Well, we're going to, we're going to talk about that. And Mary Lou just said it doesn't fall under conflict of interest. It's a workplace issue and a harassment issue, which is not a conflict of interest. So I think we should table it and move forward when we're able to move forward on it. I think, like you said, we're going to talk to the people involved and find out what happened and go from there. With that, moving on to old business. I'm going to hold off on the Jerecki thing because I know that Trisha Jerecki said she was going to come to the meeting about the petition. Okay. About the petition. So with that said, we'll just go on to the CV South letter. Old business for CV South. Actually, she just got here. How are you doing, Mrs. Jerecki? Okay. So I was just saying since you weren't here, we were going to hold off because you were the first thing in an old business. But since you're here, we'll go to. So we're going back to old business one, which is the Jerecki in the residence of Pittsfield about the parking. So we got your petition for the parking change. I left you a message on the phone saying that I was reaching out to VLCT and a couple other people to find out. So the two things I did find out. First, there is no, there's nothing in the grant about the hours. We're not, it's not respected on the grant. VLCT did advise us, so the municipal assistance center that petition regarding roads and regulations is considered public safety petition. It's a advisory petition. It's not something that can be addressed in town meeting because people could advise, they could advise their town meeting or their select boards or whatever the governing bodies are that we want to change the speed limit in town to 55 on whatever road we want and things like that, which it's not permissible under Vermont statute. However, what is permissible is this is an advisory petition. We have two routes we can go. We can bring it up at the town meeting as a non-binding vote from the town meeting members, see what they vote. Like when you did the, when you did the vote to change the time and you had the 88 people that said they wanted the meeting time change, bring it up as a non-binding vote, the next select board meeting, then we, we visit it then and we change the meeting. So as an advisory petition, we can bring it up as a non-binding vote at the end of the meeting. We can do a vote and see what people see, what they feel. And then the citizen to file the petition, someone has to come forward and formally ask the select board to revisit the, the ordinance. The select board has the ability to change the ordinance. We put the ordinance in two and a half years ago. It can be changed, but we have to be advised by someone in this petition they would like it to be revisited and opened and talked about at the meeting. Didn't that happen with the letter and the petition? No. The petition was to put it on, on the, on the warning to warn it as a, as a, as a town meeting thing for the vote, which we could have, you know, we were looking at doing, but unfortunately that vote can't be had a town meeting. Did you, these people, you know, we can do, like I said, we can do a non-binding vote at the end and see, you know, what people feel at the meeting, but you have the signatures here that are required, you know, someone's going to have to come to the select board meeting and ask us to change it. Then we'll have to have George in and talk about why the ordinance was made in the first place and sort of deliberate back and forth as to what we feel is appropriate. So if you're saying it just needs to come to be brought to your attention and have it brought up at the next select board, meaning why do we need to go through the town? Like I was saying, there were different options. You could do it as a non-binding vote, or you could just bring it to the select board. But ask for the change for next board meeting, put it on and ask for that to happen next, at the next meeting. We can ask, we can be considered, right. It can be considered and we'll have to get George the meeting and get his input as well. Do you think just changing the parking lot to the new park by the bridge so people can park overnight there? It's more of it with the cloud issue with the fact that people were parking from the tenants' house. So actually we are constrained as to what we can do with the open space. So open space, there can be no orignite parking at the open space. We and FEMA and VRCB are all owners of the open space. FEMA has regulations that say there can be no overnight parking at that open space parking. I really think that I spoke to George about it and most of it was the clouding issue and that people were from the tenants' house parking there and keeping their car there. So if the person that has the house with the rentals could say they couldn't park there and then just during snow hours you can't park from, you know, this hour to this hour if it's snowing out. I think we tried that with the owner of the house at that point. That's how it used to be actually. Before there was the ordinance. But we kind of discussed it last week or something about maybe having like a set few parking spots for overnight. That would be overnight. That's like rather than these ones out here where George really kind of needs to plow those along the town hall and maybe something off to the front of the building. Like three spots. I just have a question. Is that the whole reason of no overnight for plowing issues? So April, there was no plowing issues. So why do we have to have it year-round? Why not be snow alerts or whatever? The ordinance was written before I became a select board member. Okay. It carried over into the year that I was a select that my first year as a select board member got voted in. George presented to the select board what the actual issues were that were plowing issues and there were overnight parking issues with the apartment. I don't recall what all those were. The tenants would get in the summertime with brother. I don't recall what all those were. But what I'm saying is we can revisit it at a select board meeting if you guys don't want to do the town meeting part and you just want to bring it to the select board we can put it on the agenda for the next meeting. It probably doesn't need to even waste time at town meeting because I'm sure it's going to be long enough that. No, no, no. I'm just saying we can do that. Whichever one is quickest and easiest you have. I know but all I wanted to do was let you know what the options were as they were spelled out by VLCT to me. You can bring it to town meeting for a non-binding vote. You can bring it directly to the select board whichever you prefer to do. So can we bring it to the select board right now to ask for that for next. Yep, put it on the agenda for the next meeting. That is a beautiful thing. Okay, so that is tabled to the next meeting. Okay, so the next meeting you're saying someone on that letter has to be there. Someone just did it. You just did it. You already did it. He asked it to be on there so I will ask George to come and explain what the reasons were behind everything and you guys are more than welcome to be present and we will hash it out. We'll figure it out. Whether it's a couple spots or whatever we end up doing we'll figure it out. Okay. So are you going to invite George? Yeah, I'm going to invite George to come to that meeting as well. Okay, so the next is CV South. The only reason I put this on the old business is you weren't at the last meeting. You weren't at the last select board meeting but you were at the budget meeting and we did. So CV South has another, they have an amendment going. I didn't know if we wanted to do a letter supporting them as well like we did for Colton or not. Just saying you know that we support the town business or not. It's really, I think it's an amendment to a ruling that was already made so I don't think there's a huge, huge reason for us to write a letter but we could if we wanted to support CV as well. So and this is just about they're wanting to amend. It doesn't say what they're amending on it. To amend the decision that was made regarding their permitting. So, CV South wants to do an amendment, yes. That's um, it's an expansion of the. It's the across the street part of CV oil. It's the part that that is over by the snowmobile trails. So, um, you know I'd be willing to talk to Greg or if anybody knows what's going on with this maybe we can find out what they're what they're looking to amend and go from there. So, we can put that. Do we have a file on this Act 250? Their application? Yeah, it's upstairs somewhere inside that. Yeah. Um, I know, I know um the last Act 250 notification I got was about coal. Yeah, there's a file on both. Okay. So, moving on from that, we're going to go on to the buyout discussion with Mary Lou, update on the buyout. Okay, well everything is on track for a closing on the 30th to um, this would be for the town to purchase the property owned by Marion Abrams. So, that would be held here at the 10 offices. And I believe that's 10 o'clock. Yeah. And for those of you don't don't know um the Abrams is applied for fee money. Excuse me. They have buy form of granted um under under um HUD and FEMA um a buyout dating that was post dated back to Irene um for their property. So, the town will be acquiring that property and then having to do the same thing that's did to the other houses that were acquired during the FEMA flood where there'll be demolition of demolition existing properties. Structures on that property, it will be demolished, cleaned and and then um the town will take ownership of that open space as well. Okay. So, do we have to actually discuss the demolition plans or is that the reason we're calling off on that? So, the part that we're going to talk about with the demolition plans is um the only thing I wanted to make a note of was that in the in the budget there's going to be a discrepancy between the money that is coming back for the buyout um we're getting we initially put out $260,000 for the buyout. $178,000 of that is going to come to the town on the buyout date that Mary Lou was discussing, the 31st, the rest of it, the 30th, the rest of it is going to be reimbursed to the town but it doesn't get reimbursed at the time of of the purchase of the property it gets reimbursed once a demolition happens on the property so the town is putting up um. So, we pay out first and then we get reimbursed. We get reimbursed so what we have to do is we have to put out to bid, have the contractor come in and give us whatever the different bids are and we've allocated up to the last property that the town demolished was on up was on part place and that was um just under $50,000 that was one structure um on the Abrams property there's two structures so in the budget we allowed for up to $70,000 in that so there'll be a discrepancy but depending on how much it is we'll get that money back when when the demolition actually happens so I just wanted to make a note of that so people understood what was going on with that. So, Mary and Getz are the Abrams get the 178 or? No, we get the 178. We're getting the 178 from we're the town pays the Abrams 260. No, the Abrams is. They're getting 170. Yeah, they're getting 170 and change. Um we're going to get reimbursed that money from from the federal government at that time so when we do the when we do the purchase for the 170 we're going to get a check back for the 170. That check actually comes in for us to do the oh to do the purchase. Okay. Yeah. So, we'll yeah. So, 178, I believe is the amount. 177s will change. This is what the Abrams is are getting for the buyout property. We're getting given that check to do the buyout. And then I understand that so that's what I was saying. There's 260 total coming from the government. Right. 178 is going to the Abrams. The rest is going to be held until we acknowledge and then we will go to the check from the government. Okay. Exactly. So, any other questions on the buyout or okay. So, the NRCS grants um the board was notified that so with the April flooding, there was some things that weren't covered by FEMA. Um those things that weren't covered by FEMA were the um the mitigation work that has to be done at the Parment to Place site for for the erosion into the open space that the town bought. Um that falls under um it's just short of the bridge. The erosion happened just short of the bridge at Parment to Place. Um so that open space is considered town infrastructure. Um FEMA will not replace open space um infrastructure but what they did do is they put us in in process for what they call mitigation grants through NRCS. NRCS is going to pay to um armor that bank across from um the properties over on Parment to Place but the the property the river part that abuts the open space they're going to armor. It's going to be um three feet that can 200 linear feet long and there's going to be a um armoring there to channel the flow under the bridge and away from the open space. Um are they going to do anything with the other side of the river where it's water? That garage is about private property and unfortunately they don't cover anything with private property and NRCS wouldn't cover. Okay, when that bridge or when that barn falls into the river like the one at the little shed, see the oil that will soon fall into the river too. Who pays for the cleanup of that when that happens? So when that happens I mean obviously we will we will have to deal with it when it happens. FEMA has come out and NRCS has come out and and and ours come out and they have talked to the property owners. They have talked to property owners about what they have to do. um you know I don't know what the process is if they can make them armor that that stretch of of river they can't make them do it. I don't think they can make recommendations. um I know I've been told by the family they don't have the money to make the the armoring recommendations that have been told to them. um you know unfortunately that's a mitigation that FEMA won't cover NRCS won't cover because it's private property. um the White House right at the bridge the White House and that barn are owned by the same family. um and it's it's a matter of time you're right. It is a matter of time. The barn is real closer. The trees just came down and are there the barn. I know. They went and surveyed it the other day and Sharon Bore from A&R went and surveyed it again and it went from five feet to four feet to whatever it is now. The same as that little shed at the CVE wild property that is about to fall that's even closer to falling in. So unfortunately like I said that's private property and so far that's not it's an issue we're gonna have to deal with if it impacts the bridge and the state will have to deal with um until then we've been told by FEMA and I think you're aware I've put tons of hours into FEMA stuff. Yeah, you've done a great job of that. There's unfortunately only so far you can go with the FEMA stuff and NRCS and A&R um you know we're squeezing every dime we can out of them for certain things um like I said they're gonna armor they're gonna armor the other side the the infrastructure property that the town has. Can you do that doesn't it always affect somewhere else? I never wanted you to put up the wrap and everything else and we had that problem on the other side of the bridge that when they did it originally that you couldn't put up certain stuff and you had to put in all these twigs and that's what they wanted so that it would keep it safe without making it worse for the next hundred feet past it you know. Right. Unfortunately Joyce my frustration for FEMA is very high because I was told essentially it's not our problem to the bridge to the barn falls in the water and wipes out the bridge then it's a FEMA problem and I'm like well how about we take care of it before it becomes a problem and they're like FEMA doesn't do that. FEMA's about disaster recovery not disaster avoidance. It's disaster avoidance after the after it does that. The bridge is trying to avoid the bridge falling in that's what people are putting that down. Um the other place that so between that property and then tweed river drive where the wash there was a washout actually just below the Tundings house um NRCS is also going to armor 150 feet of that roadway except that's going to be five feet deck and it's much higher density stuff because of the pitch um but that's going to be armored as well. The town did get a grant for both of those through NRCS. The the amount of money coming from the federal government is $143,000 and there's a uh $30,000 match that the town has to do if we decide to accept the grant which the board is going to talk about next meeting as well. Um I actually got the grant paperwork this evening sent to me at and had a chance to look at it so so that's something else we're going to be doing. So um with that being said we have to discuss whether we want to do that. The budget this year is is a is a whole other interesting animal. The you know we had to do a lot of things with the budget that that people are going to be questioning and sort of wondering about um we level funded a lot of different things um and departments which I just sent an email out to them saying that we level funded them because we can't look at doing certain things um this year and because of the fire truck and the new librarian physician and things like that the we held the tax rate to point five seven um with what we did but that's not incorporating in the schools so the schools are still coming and we don't know what the final number is with the schools and that's going to jack the taxes up. So the warrant the warning for this town meeting is going to be pretty pretty um it's going to be not as substantial about asking for outlays of money because we just don't have the money to outlaw. You know we the town is is we've got some some things to think about and some stuff to do at town meeting. We have to talk about where our priorities are as a town and what we need to do with our budgeting because you know we would like to do capital planning we would like to sort of get us on the track to doing what we have to do is a town to be better prepared but because of the the line of credit we took and things like that which is going to carry over into next year we we are looking at not doing as many things as we would like to. Now the budget's complete now? Yeah the budget we completed the budget on the 16th and um we're waiting on the on the school number that has not come yet but it's not it's not officially due until the end of the week. So moving on to the complaint um number five so with the complaint um I reached out to the LCT as um as recommended by Mary Lou and I talked to I talked to um some people at VLCT the town um under its passive insurance is available to receive three hours of of human resource legal advice um so um VLCT is advising and they would they say we should avail ourselves of that and have have a um passive passive VLCT attorney look at what's going on and then come up with an opinion as to what the next steps forward are on that um Mary Lou agrees with that I believe um so um what I am going to do is to allow us to do that I have to make a motion that we that we seek the council um so I'm going to make a motion to bring in outside counsel as recommended by VLCT and passive and allow the chair to authorize an opinion from said council as to what the next steps forward are the reason we're doing this is because um Mary Lou looking at the policy VLCT looking at the policy um that we have in place the complaint doesn't fall under the under the either heading of a of a conflict of interest or ethical violation um it it's a it's a harassment complaint that is a is a human resources issue um and we feel we need to get some human resource input on that so with that said I'm going to make a motion that the board um bringing outside counsel is recommended by VLCT and passive and town council and allow the chair to authorize an opinion from said council as to you know I'm going from point of order discussion on the motion before the second discussion on the motion before discussion on the motion before the vote is taken Robert's rules of order once the second is given it can you can no yes second discussion that it goes the motion the motion is seconded and then it's open to open for discussion so the vote has not been taken the vote hasn't been taken it's been I made a motion and the motion was seconded then it can be open a discussion between the board members and then we can take a vote and the public no there's no there there's the the vote is of the board right now to to allow for the seeking of outside counsel to advise the board it's not it's not a motion it the motion that should be discussed with the board and the townspeople no there's no the the board is is who's making the decision I believe that's correct does the town council know the rules of order or is there a discussion open to the public pardon what is your question is the discussion open to the public after the motion is after the motion is made I would say yes it should be open to the public who is present okay so I will I will go to town council and I will say okay my understanding was it was between the board that's fine I'm going to limit any discussion from the public and and the board I'd like people to limit their comments to five minutes or less if they can and then we'll move on I would first like to say if I'm recognized of course you are that I have been waiting over three months to defend myself against allegations of harassment and it looks like this motion is another tactic to circumvent the protocols the board adopted last year to handle complaints against public officers for if if you follow the protocols any complaint that comes in on a public officer should is is discussed so I am what I've been advised by town council and vlct council is that I'm being told the policy that's in place is not applicable to what is going on okay we are not talking about a conflict of interest we're not talking about an ethical conflict this is this complaint was filed October 8th why has it taken and you know exactly why it's taken this long we've tried to mediate the complaint we've tried to go through EAP we've tried a bunch of different things okay and we and we have done all of that and and that was just completed from my understanding Mary Lou reached out and as far as I know it hasn't been completed no one's reported back community was completed so we've taken numerous steps however to it hasn't been avoided we've been trying to deal with it and get it resolved in a way that is giving everybody involved yourself included due process when I'm advised by the town council and I'm advised by vlct that the policy does not apply to the current situation and I have to seek outside council as HR human resource council that's what I'm that's what the motion is motion is to to get an opinion from passive through our insurance as to what the next step is and how to properly address this complaint okay the town has expected almost two thousand dollars in consultations with the town attorney on yes we have and we did that because you saw outside council and it's a letter to me and at that point in time I had to seek town council okay you saw it I saw town council when outside council was was was brought into this and that's what I had to do okay and outside and town council at the time advised me that meetings that Trish was present at should not happen without her being present okay so that is what has happened okay the complaint process has not been avoided I have tried to do this for I tried executive session I tried mediation I tried a bunch of different things and I'm we're waiting for the results or EAP I don't know I know that Mary Lou reached out to EAP and they were going to reach out you know waiting on the results of that but since then at Mary Lou's behest I contacted VLCT and they advised me under passive which we have an insurance claim which we have insurance and we've known about but I was advised that I had to make about that but in unfortunately I was advised that I had to make a motion to do that so that's what I'm doing I'm making a motion to take part of that outside council and to use it as appropriate you know it has I was told by VLCT I have to make a motion for that so that's what I'm doing what can you tell me what is EAP it's invest EAP is is a employment assistance program and it's a it's a division of the employee assistant program that addresses conflicts you know with communication and procedure especially related to municipal issues so we you know in researching how to address this particular complaint that was one area you know one possibility an avenue that looked like there was potential there and it took quite a while to get to the right people at EAP invest EAP and see what they felt was a possible way to get things resolved that was brought back to the board and you know some of the ideas that they had were not really were somewhat rejected by the board so we went back and came up with another way to try to resolve it with invest EAP that's also a free service so we're trying to do this without costing additional money beyond what's already been expended and what I have the only I've only gotten a partial report back there was some a meeting with the town clerk the town clerk did report back that she felt it was beneficial to her but she did not feel that there was a meeting with her and and would be productive at all so we're kind of back at square one and we also I mean as people probably know we've discussed this at town at select board meetings about how to resolve it and haven't really been able to come to a solution to address it properly either that everybody was comfortable with so that's why we are trying this other free resource to see if maybe they can bring some some path to resolution to get people on the right track again Mary Lou so you're saying that you're representing the select board in this complaint but then I'm also hearing that you're representing the town clerk and advising the count clerk in these matters no I'm not she has not reached out to you and discuss this complaint no I think we're sticking to the motion right now the only conversation I have had with the town clerk was to call her and and see if she actually had a conversation with investee as it was rec it was recommended two weeks ago when I was at the last meeting that investee and keep me both separately with the town clerk and with Anne and that's all I've heard follow-up as far as whether that was done or not in her note she says she's met with council I'm assuming it was you who's notes in Patricia's letters that she wrote she states she met with council how are you aware of a letter she wrote because you this this letter that we just got today is that what you're referring to or not at all the prior letter one that is public record okay I don't know who she spoke to about that I think you're incorrect I think you're referring to the herald article okay I apologize on that but go ahead Josh isn't who you're making a motion to meet with part of the EAP no no the lct is of Vermont league of cities and towns right they through passive and verb pretty much ensure of most most municipalities in the state the lct has what they call the max municipal assistance center which uh select boards and and elected elected officials can reach out to for advice on problems when I reached out to the lct about this issue they um they gave it to they have an in-house person who does human resource issues the woman who who who who spoke to me said are you remember passive I said yes we were contacted by passive and told that we have um three or four hours of free free counsel from a human resources attorney available to us through our insurance so what I'm asking for is the ability to reach out to that human resources counsel to get advice on this okay um because vlct when Mary Lou looked at the policy I called the max center the max center is is vlct's lawyers they looked at the policy initially said that it did not fall under the policy for conflict of interest and ethical standards in the way the policy was written so with that being said they recommend that I talk to a human resources attorney who will come up with an opinion on what the next step forward should be they know that we've tried to mediate this they know that we've sought investee ap's help have you really sat down as a board without the complaints involved and talked all sides before this at a meeting we have not had an executive session about now not because it should be out in the open but when there's a complaint have the three of you sat and discussed it or did you two decide that trish was in the right and you were going to we're talking about the motion right now we're not talking about the complaint and the mechanics itself okay and the problem is right now the board has to decide what's in the best interests of the town and what's in the best interest in the town is is is free is protecting that town is protecting the town and discussing it amongst yourselves before you bring in mary lou or well since this is free i think it's a good idea to proceed with this i think the motion is pretty self explanatory that we're seeking legal guidance from human resource attorneys as to what the next steps have to be unfortunately we're dealing with elected officials and there's some gray areas to what is enforceable and what's not enforceable and what what the what the levels of certain things are and that's why human resources has to sort of give their opinion as to what the next steps forward are but isn't this like you're talking about the motion you're not talking about the verdict a few weeks ago and now this is we haven't made the verdict we haven't made the verdict if you're talking about the vote of no confidence it was the continued behavior of the people in this situation that led me to take a vote of no confidence because this is an ongoing thing that is not ended and you know it and voted for her resignation you're right because i feel the behavior exhibited is not that that is is but you never even discussed it with her you discussed with the town clerk not with no i discussed it with the town attorneys i haven't discussed it with the town clerk don't we're talking about the motion right now okay is there any more discussion about the motion from the public call the question okay so again i will clarify the motion one more time by reading it the chair makes a motion to bring outside council into the matter recommended by vlcp and pacif and allow the chair to authorize an opinion from set council on the complaint all those in favor okay can i ask one more question is there a way to put in there like i know we're getting free free hours but what if this takes well or four hours but if this takes 12 hours like we can limit it we can we can limit it so dollar amount or something i can find out if there's a dollar amount but right now i'll i'll limit it to the to the free hours and we'll go from there okay i know that i mean just because we're two councils then working on no no i understand but i i also feel i also i'm i'm not looking to spend money like people say haphazardly and just out of control okay well but you know what i also i also have to act in behest to the town what's going to protect the town and when outside council is brought in the day or two after the complaint was made and and i get a letter from that outside council i have to seek town council i'm not a lawyer i'm not an hr professional so guess what i saw town council's advice and town council said can i just time forward clarify something that you just said you said you got a letter from an outside council is that what you're saying you you said i got an email or something from outside i wrote you a letter saying i had gotten advice i did not say that i had hired it was it had outside council on the bottom of the letter i had all right listen it's seeking advice from outside council is getting outside council okay and when i presented that would you ask your board about seeking outside council which you're supposed to do or did you just pick up the phone and call the board chairs allowed to call town council herb so why don't you become familiar with the board rules okay yeah the board chair can call town council that was clarified at the beginning of the this the the sitting board session and if the board contacts council if other board members contact council they come to the board they come to the board and say why they're contacting council with that being said the vote was in favor of seeking outside council i will at the at the suggestion of juice limited to the three free hours and then we'll come back if that looks like it's going to go over that and what the cost may be for that right no no no i i believe reed so the decision to not go forward with the eta whatever that group was was because trish said she there was no decision but she but trish not to go forward trish we're not discussing the complaint in right now we made a motion a motion is to get an opinion from hr that's what we're doing okay but what was that other group doing there is no discussion now we're done with that we're going to move on to the last item on the agenda last two items on the agenda tonight and then we'll close the meeting on to new business we have to sign for the harvey's excavating outside contractor they have to be approved for the upcoming year and they have an independent contracting document checklist and then sign for them to be used as a subcontractor by the town and we do this for most of the contractors if you want to look over it look it over you can didn't harvey's already have the expired it expired so it has to be expired so they're offering one does it expire how long is it three years not sure if it's one or three years three years yeah and we get a new certificate of insurance every year we have to sign this yeah yeah oh i'm in two places in the back no i'm just letting in look at it first and then you can look at it if you want and then i make a motion that we approve and sign for the certificate of insurance okay i will sign it all right so the last order of new business is um we received yet another petition from town members this one um undecided voters of pittsfield requests to select board and see the following article in the warning for the town for 2020 town meeting all it says is prohibit the sales and dispensing of recreational marijuana or marijuana products including but not limited to solvents edibles within the town um two things i got back on this were they need five percent five percent of the voters of the town to sign the petition they have 12 votes and five percent is 20 someone signed it it wasn't even the resident of town but two people who did um and then um vlct advised that the language isn't acceptable either so if they wanted this on the on the thing we could put it forward if they had enough voters um but the language would have to be changed but since they're on enough voters on the petition we can't act on this we can do it as a non-binding question again like i was like i advised um this is jerrucky we can add it we can have a discussion about it at the end of the meeting as a non-binding issue but that's as far as we can go with it as as this petition stands um how close can you to have it on so 45 days so there still is time to get to get um the signatures there's still time to get signatures i think we are 47 days away so i think i don't know why i think that uh i thought we were 47 days away but it's 45 days away yeah from February 1st to the 2nd is 30 days it's 29 days that's 31 yeah and then we have six days yeah right right yeah so we're out okay but we can bring it up as a non-binding we can we can certainly have a non non-binding discussion i don't know where it originated from but we can bring it up if we want as a non-binding issue to that i know that uh that jesse brought it in but i don't know where it came from so came from jesse your mom came from the round table on the back jesse's and the jesse's oh um i do have a question um yeah and this is just from reading in the newspaper um the town clerk you said has up to five thousand dollars she can spend up to five thousand dollars without permission so in the purchasing policy purchases are allowed to be made up to five thousand dollars without your approval before they need for bidding purposes before it can go to bid so anything over five thousand dollars needs to we need to get bids on right so so what i'm saying is under five thousand dollars charles it's said in the paper that you said she can spend in the budget in the budget okay she had five thousand dollars in the computer budget the question was brought to me about the computer and so the town doesn't have a purchasing policy per se limiting what george or the town clerk can spend on items when they do things like george can get repairs to the trucks or whatever needs to be done trish can do things the the complaint that was brought before us was that she was spending money she wasn't authorized to spend okay which i totally get i get with the complaint is but from what i understood in the paper it sounded like just because it's in the budget no no no no no i can go spend four grand because i have the town clerk get the chapter out i think that's because no i think that's no that's that's because what's written in papers and what's not written in papers you can write volumes about what's not written in papers right it was the the five thousand $5,000 that I was talking about was a $5,000 in the budget line item for a computer. She spent, let's say, $1,600 on a computer. She notifies us of that. She doesn't necessarily have to seek our approval to buy a computer. If the office computer is, we knew the computer had to be replaced. We had been told the year before the computer had to be replaced. During the FEMA work, the computer stopped working and wasn't able to keep up with the amount of stuff that was getting generated through it. It slowed down. She bought a computer. The question that was brought up by one of the select board members to her was did she have to, she didn't have to get authorized to make that purchase. She didn't have to come and ask us to make that purchase. The town office has to work. There's money in the line item for her to go and purchase a computer if necessary. We don't have a specific number or policy in place that limits the amount of money that Patty would spend money for yearly contracts or things like that. She'd come and tell us what she was spending. She didn't ask us permission to do it. She came and reported. Trish came and reported that she spent the money on the computer. There was nothing from the budget. It was in the budget. It was in the budget. We still have to sign off on all of those purchases. Right. We still do them. What if you decided you didn't think you wanted to do it and it was already spent? Right. I'm asking like, you know, for not that... The select board member who brought the... I'm going to buy a computer. The computer was signed off on when it was asked to be signed off on. There's a process. If there was a question of that spending, the select board member could have brought it to our attention and said, I wanted to talk about it in a meeting. That didn't happen. It got signed off on. The purchase was made. And the question was written on the order. Didn't we have to... It was a question of don't we need to discuss this at select board meeting? No, we don't have to discuss it at the select board meeting. It wasn't part of the capital budget, the IT capital. It wasn't part of... And we were told a year ago... I was just asking not to get into this whole subject. I was just trying to see if it's... The process is... It was confusing the way it was in the article. And it was confusion there. The general process would be... Right. So the general process would be... The general process would be is when the orders are done, if there's something questionable... In order is a request. Order is a request for approval. When the order is done, if the select board member has a question about that item, they come to the select board and they ask to discuss it at the select board meeting. Okay? That order was signed off on and the purchase was made at the time. It was already made. It's already ordered. There's a process though. If Matt has a question with the orders, he would make a motion or ask to have it put on the agenda at the select board and it would be brought up and discussed. That's the first I'm hearing. That's the first I'm hearing about that process. That is the very first I'm hearing. If you had a question in order, what would you do? I would ask the person who put the request in for the order. Okay. And if they didn't answer you in a way that made you sign off on the order, then I'm sure you'd bring it to the select board if that were a question. I know that that was the process. Then I guess the two questions that I asked the town clerk about... We're not discussing the complaint. I think Joyce had a question about what would happen normally if something were questioned. Right. George has in the budget that he needs a new grader and we are putting it in the budget every year. But that doesn't mean George is going to go out and spend a great grand next week without your approval. In the purchasing policy, that has to go up to bid. After you hit $5,000 and over $10,000, the processes have to be out to bid. There's different bid requirements for the amounts like FEMA has different requirements for over... for Culver 33, the end of Upper Michigan Road. That bid is going to be well over $126,000 is what they consider a large job. So that bid has very specific guidelines. So when George puts that out to bid in the spring, there are very specific guidelines that have to be met with that bid. And when purchases go over $5,000 for the town, then there is a bid process. The question I was asked by the reporter when I was asked about by the reporter was about, I believe it was about the $5,000 in the budget for the computer. To be honest, the conversation with the reporter, I think he's in the back. You know, I think everybody's questions were answered appropriately, but maybe they weren't. I'm just seeing what you're asking. I think my intention was that... You were asking, you were talking about a specific item. In the line item. You were talking very specifically general about anything and everything. Right. I thought it was general, too. Is there an amount that the town court can spend on her own without anything? I'm naming her flowers. I mean, can she just go buy flowers for her desk? So she can spend up to $5,000? She can buy cloth things up to that. I mean, well, so whatever we set the budget, I don't remember, like, for, I don't know, maintenance. I don't remember what it was exactly or what budget it came out of, but like, town hall, we knew a $5,000 budget for maintenance. And for town... We still see everything that gets... We see the things that come through, like the t-shirts for the clerk came. T-shirts for the constables came through the clerk's office, but she purchased those for the constables because they came to her and to the board with a specific complaint at one point in time. General question, I'm not trying to... Back to that computer. I don't know computers, so this is just... Shouldn't have there been a discussion, and I'm not sure, and I'm not trying to pick on Trish on this laptop versus a desktop. The security and everything, if you're talking about security or anything with that. We went based on the recommendation of our computer. The IT person. That's all I was asking on that. I was just curious. I'm not a computer person either. Neither am I, so I didn't know. That's why I was asking. I know that we had a discussion about the building security and the IT person. This is before the computer purchase was made. We went to the town offices and the library being separate entities. They weren't for a while. They're separate entities now. We go by Becky's recommendations for security. Becky comes to us and says you have an opening here. This year, one of the big things is having susceptibility to fishing and spear fishing and all that type of stuff. Having backups in place. The board got a recommendation from Becky to do backups every day to a secure cloud that a lot of banks use and stuff like that. So we did that. It's $10 a month. Things like that that we enter into contracts with, the board discusses. But in that particular case, that was installed prior to any discussion by the board. In that particular case, it was installed prior. It was. It was not brought before the board. It was discussed and we agreed to cease its operation if we didn't want it done. Becky was programming a bunch of stuff and put us in it and asked us to do that as a further security measure. We all agreed to do it and then bring it up at the next meeting and we discussed it at the next meeting. Are we going to start digitizing any of our files upstairs? I know that the listers have some stuff going on with mapping and stuff like that. I don't know if that's what you're talking about. I know every time somebody comes in to do something, the percentage of that money has to go towards digitizing that. I know that, have you looked into it, there is a significant expense to that. We have some numbers that Patty brought forward at some point in time about that. Periodically, everything gets archived and goes to the state archives. Right, but I need to go online. If I wanted to go online for Kilington and see your land record, I can do that and I can pay and get all those records. A portion of when you come in an attorney comes in and files something and they pay their fee, a portion of that goes to digitizing. It goes to the, I forget the name of the fund, but it's a record preservation fund. I don't think it's necessarily for digitizing, but I don't know. I just thought if we could get librarian numbers and how many people are upstairs, maybe we could have the library and start scanning some of our records. Back to that. It would be great to have it, for sure. It's a small town and a big expense for a small town. As a Lister, we are doing the mapping. We've already gone in contract with Nimmer to map the whole town, so we can get that done. We are in the process of hiring and we're interviewing for appraisals because we need a whole town re-appraisal. Didn't we just have that done? You make a motion to do what you want to see. Bruce, did you have anything you wanted to talk about specifically or you're just observing entertainment? Better than TV, right? All right. Are there any other questions from the public regarding anything that happened, regarding the last two items that we did? Sorry, no. Did you get your question? It's about digitizing. Sarah talked about that a little bit. I know there's some numbers it was looked into. I think... Do we even have a scanner here? No. Small. I know Patty looked into the cost. The cost is significant to digitize the records and it's going to do with the map size. The mapping process will all be digitized. They are going to take and have looked at the maps and we're going to forward them. No, I meant all the archive records. The archive maps will all be put into these new maps so we have as accurate as we can layout because there aren't really that many surveys of parcels of land around here but everything we have in our files will be digitized on maps by Numeric. I can just add that I do know that when the state increased the recording fee from $10 a page to $50 a page, part of the basis for the increase and part of the revenue from that increase is supposed to go to digitizing files in the land records throughout the state but as far as how that money is brought in, I think it's being brought in, centralized and then divvied back out to the various towns that still haven't had the resources to bring it up to get that rolling because it's only about $2,000 or so towns in the state that have indexed. When we say we're going to reappraisal and hire a firm, all that money we already have in our till from the state to pay for the reappraisal so it won't be coming out. Sir, you said it was $58,000. Lastly, I think that's what you said. It was $58,000. Right now in Solistic offers to pay for the matrimony and maybe not all the matrimony but all of the reappraisal. If I can have a minute of your time when we're done. Cheryl, I just wanted to say that entertainment is fine but it's a curiosity that brings me down here to have to read any papers and stuff and see what's going on. If I could have a minute of your time when we're done until like two, if you have a second to adjourn the meeting to talk to you about something. That said, I make a motion to adjourn. Aye.