 We are going to have an ASEAN session here. Actually, we call ASEAN Knowledge Network. This session when we are having a kind of presentation from some of the ASEAN countries. As you know this morning, ASEAN countries consisting of 10 different countries. But in terms of forest, ASEAN countries have a significant contribution for global climate change. In our statistics by ASEAN countries comprising around one out of three different groups in the world. From Brazil and also from Brazil, ASEAN is one of the biggest regions as the tropical countries in the world. So I think this ASEAN experience system forest and climate change will be very significant to be considered. This afternoon actually we have several colleagues from ASEAN countries. And we are here because also our cooperation between Germans and ASEAN countries. So before we start with the presentation, let me invite Mr. Thomas Hendricks. He is the head of ASEAN German program on response to climate change in Jakarta. Please join this working session. And on behalf of the German agency for international cooperation here at ASEAN and the ASEAN German program on response to climate change at the FCC. I would like to extend my appreciation to A.R.K.N. that explains why this event seems to be important to us. As G.I.Z.M. we support various projects and initiatives on forestry and climate change in several ASEAN interstates and in more than 50 countries all over the world. This project basically focuses on second issues like forest management, violence, the agriculture and other landscape related sectors. But while implementing these projects we realize more and more importance of cross sectoral measures and importance of the regional level. And this is for three issues like Red Cross or Flag Team. We need to be based upon local experiences but these experiences need to be shared and analyzed if there really should be to overall sustainability of things. So we need regional knowledge shared. Second, climate change may be an environmental issue but response to climate change is not. And it's not restricted to the local or national level. So response to climate change needs to be tackled in a cross sectoral manner and in many cases on a regional or trans-boundary level. And third, we agree that international agreements are needed to be able to convince the response to climate change. But at the same time we are always content about the results of the multi-organization process. So more than ever I think we need a better preparation and a better harmonization process. And where to realize this is not on the regional level. So we appreciate very much the work and the structures already established within the ASEAN region. These structures would be key to speed up warning processes in the member states and to achieve results from the international level. And these structures include networks like the ARKN. We appreciate that within ARKN ASEAN member states have shared information and experiences on forestry and successfully developed several compositions of Red Cross and the UNMCC negotiations. All those achievements wouldn't have been possible without the successful coordination effort of the ARKN and FCCC. So we honestly congratulate you for these achievements and for this effort. And it's a pleasure for me to announce that our ministry in Germany has just decided to continue the support throughout the FCCC, our program, from ASEAN and then to the ARKN, at least until the end of 2017. In this context let me add that we would welcome partnerships with other organizations to grow up the support of the regional level. So once more, on behalf of GIZ and GAMCC I would like to congratulate the organizers for this event. And I'm looking forward to your fruitful and enriching discussion. Thank you very much. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, our session will be around 90 minutes. So in this afternoon we have at least seven different precenters. So from Indonesia, from the Philippines, Ayala, Jeremy Broadhead, and Richard from Cambodia. Igu Elisabeth Williams from Malaysia, Mr. Muen from Vietnam, and Dr. Aristan Wang from Indonesia. I'd like to invite first, for people to know, she is actually the co-ordinator of ARKN, ASEAN Regional Knowledge Network for forests and climate change. She will care for kind of idea to address international, regional, and national issues of red glass approaches and lessons learned from ARKN FCCC. Who knows your time around five minutes, please. Thank you. Good afternoon, colleague. First of all, Link ASEAN Regional Knowledge Network for forests and climate change to serve with you how ASEAN address international, regional, and national issues related to forests and climate change. Let me begin with introducing ASEAN and ASEAN landscape. ASEAN is political and economic organization of 10 countries located in south-easy Asia, formed in 1967. It covers an area of 4.46 million square kilometers, about 3% of the total red area of Earth. It has population of about 600 million people, about 8.8% of the world population. In 2012, it combined nominal GDP has grown to more than 2.33 US dollars. For a single entity, it would run as the eighth largest economy in the world. In terms of forest areas, collectively, ASEAN owns approximately 283.2 million hectares. Despite diversity in forest areas, forest resources, spiritual histories, economic and political conditions, the regions are many important. For example, cultural value, biodiversity, richness, dependency of local people to forest areas in many countries, and vulnerability to climate change. In fact, this is one of the historical background of the establishment of ASEAN FCC. Airtime FCC was formed in 2008 upon the approval from ASEAN General Official in Forestry meeting in 2008. The objective of this Airtime FCC is supporting ASEAN decision making and implementation on forest and climate change. What is the approach of Airtime FCC in carrying out our task? Airtime FCC operates under ASEAN guidance, complying with ASEAN principle including mutual respect and effective regional cooperation. Through this network, experience, information and lessons, including challenges relating to forest and climate change, especially Red Cross, ASEAN. And where possible, common issues are addressed regionally and as the basis of developing common position for negotiation. I guess, continue what we are doing at the international level. Through this network, ASEAN has successfully developed common position and will be successfully also gain the support and recognition of our common position and our interests. At the regional level, we work together in capacity building and also through different support, we develop guidance for developing reference, emissions level and MRP system, also develop decision support tool on diversification and degradation. In regional level, we work together under three main areas, policy, capacity building and communication. What we learn from our process? First, in mobilizing resources. We try to mobilize support from various channels, multilateral, bilateral and also national sources. One thing is that very important and very relevant with this event is inclusive process, full engagement of all ASEAN members and also transparent processes in our effort at different level, international, regional and national level. Thank you. Five minutes. Sorry, I forget to introduce Bruno in the background, although I believe that almost all of you know who Bruno is. Bruno, Dr. Nour Mastripatin is the director of standard decision and environment in Australia and CSN Kids and Climate Change negotiations and has been the red plus lead negotiator of Indonesia and UNMCCC. CSN is currently the coordinator of ARKN and the coordinator of SID, God's Information System of Indonesia. I think Bruno is one of our best colleagues on climate change issues and powers. The second speaker I'd like to invite my colleague from Cambodia. There will be two speakers today. One is Mr. June Deluxe. He is the deputy chief of forest carbon credit and climate change office for Australia administration, ministry of agriculture forestry and business in Cambodia. He has seven years experience in all the communities of forest management and he is currently one of the Cambodia red plus lead carbon technical team members. So the second speaker from Cambodia, I don't know which one you are going to first. There's Jeremy Broadhead. He is a senior forestry and land use policy advisor or lowering emission in Asia forest only with comprehensive experiences in Asia Pacific and Africa. His experience range from project preparations and medicine to forestry policy analysis and linking climate change objective to forest management. So because you are going to be both of you, so two minutes for Jeremy, three minutes for Mr. June. Please. Good afternoon everyone. My pleasure to be here. I'll try to make this as quick as possible. This is just to introduce the draft ARNFCC decision support on addressing, assessing and addressing drives of deforestation and degradation. This is a publication that the USAID program has been supporting ARNFCC to develop over the past year or so. And there have been a number of meetings that we've held during which ARNFCC focal points have provided the framework and the direction in developing this tool. The LEAF program and climate focus, the consortium part of the time I work for has then been able to fit in the gaps and we've had several rounds of consultation. At the moment we are going through the testing phase. We've got Chunderlucks from Cambodia to talk about this in the next session. We're also testing the decision support tool at the subnational and national level in other countries in the region. As you can see on the presentation, the idea of this is to get some practical experience on implementing the tool. And it is quite important because addressing drives of deforestation and degradation is certainly not an academic exercise. And although we've built this consultative process, we realise that it is in some cases more of a negotiation than a consultation. I can have the next slide quickly. So an overview of the tool that Chung will be talking about the implementation of in the next presentation. The first step is to gather information on drivers. Select the drivers that you want to assess based on criteria that have been developed in a participatory fashion. And designing policies and measures to address the drivers. So this is very much built into the standard bread process. It's basically trying to construct a policy process around drivers. So in the past we've seen that there have been a lot of consultancy reports based on right-sense media analysis in which consultants come out with some recommendations for drivers to address. But this means to this decision support tool aimed to mobilise stakeholders in addressing those drivers. Because our experience in the region over the past, I don't know, 10, 20, 30 years is if you don't mobilise stakeholders then nothing is going to happen. Step 4 is implementing the selected drivers and step 5 is monitoring the implementation. And that's it. Thank you very much. My presentation will focus on the experience from the applied tool that JV has mentioned. This is an overview about the driver of deforestation and deforestation in Cambodia. And you see that Cambodia has high deforestation rate. By the same time, we have high forest cover. So in the point of view, it is a very good place for testing the red plus mechanism. FFT has no red plus strategy or FFT red plus implementation unless you have to identify a clear driver of deforestation. And as you see in the slide that in principle when we are developing the roadmap, we already identified some key driver of deforestation and deforestation. It is coverable driver inside forest deforestation sector and outside forest deforestation sector. Okay. How driver of deforestation and deforestation has been identified in Cambodia as a roadmap? As experience, we have three steps that this driver has been identified. There was first meeting with the existing background experience, red plus pilot implementation and a lot of research has been done in the past. And after we college all this information and then we conducted national and sub-national consideration where the driver of deforestation is a reference to the real situation, the ground or is a reference to the policy that we have in our countries. And after that it will be after we consult with different stakeholders and also at the last day we set up the working group to compile the Cambodia national red plus roadmap. So this is an experience that began from the identifying driver of deforestation in Cambodia in the past. Okay. This is just showing you an overall driver of deforestation and for integration it was divided into driver within forest deforestation sector and driver outside forest deforestation sector. And we classified as direct driver and indirect drivers. As Jeremy mentioned earlier that Cambodia we are in the last stage of applying we are in the primary stage of applying the tools and we are in the first, we are right now, so I am working in the Cambodian and Pasangcran Territz and we try to collect all information on policy related to driver and new research that we come up with, the driving parts of the overall driver of deforestation in Cambodia. But at this stage we cannot quantify all driver. We just prioritize driver that we need to address. So we are in the first step. Okay. What we learn from applying the tools? Cambodian need is because right now in Asian regions we have the tool that introduced by USAID leave program and the tool is being tested in two countries as I mentioned. One was Cambodian and the other one was Philippines, I think. Okay. So I am working with that. So after applying the tool we get some experience and Cambodian need to have one tool that appropriate and fit to the national constant. It is not limited to follow the Asian's tool but it has to be aligned with each others. And also in Cambodia we have a limited data on driver of deforestation because some data has to be reclaimed to different stakeholders, they have few and some drivers are very sensitive at the national level. Okay. What we learn from applying the tool? The challenge was that, I think it called a speech. Right now driver of deforestation for integration is very sensitive for different stakeholders. And people sometimes they use driver as a negative, some people use driver as a positive way. So I identify our uncertainty to identify this tool in effect to identify the driver at the national level. And also it is electric tool to see really all different stakeholders about the national level, they understood more about driver but the sub-national stakeholder might not understand well about driver plus driver what it is. So we need more games of transmitting information sharing to ensure that national and sub-national they are in the same head and understood driver at the same time. Okay. And keep the other challenges for coordination mechanism. Right now we don't have any national mechanism to collect or to manage data deforestation. While at the same time different stakeholders they have their own data and last ones. Actually fortunately we have a good opportunity we can improve these issues by right now we have Cambodian national task force, they will use as a platform and they will use as a mechanism to coordinate our different stakeholders to prioritize driver that need to address. And while at the same time we have a lot of programs from development panel provide all financial and cost support to improve the work of driver in Cambodian. And last, fortunately in the past experience we also have a rich experience on driver of deforestation and big relation was identified. Okay. This is my last time. Thank you. From Cambodia, Malaysia that have climate change and forestry program forest research institute of Malaysia framework. So she is very active in several occasion or event under UNFCCC and biological diversity policy. She will care for kind of presentation dealing with outcome approach on red plus implementation Malaysian explorers. Please. Thank you. Good afternoon to all of you next please. I will try to speak very fast. If you don't understand me just talk me later on along the corridors. Just to start off my presentation basically I just want to give an idea of how to be handled forestry in Malaysia. Plan issues whether it's natural resources or anything to do with land is at the state level administration. So the federal government of Putrajaya basically manages and harmonizes the different activities and management of natural resources. But this is all guided by national council. Some of these councils are through the constitution of our country where it's legally binding. So these are all the different links that we have which I've already put there. I think you can read in the interest of time I have to go to the next slide next please. So based on that the red plus will just fit into all those committees because we believe red plus is a holistic approach where we look at the environmental aspects. We look at the social aspects. We look at the economic aspects as well as the forestry like which is part of the environment and climate change. Red plus action has already been incorporated into our 10th Malaysia plan. Currently we are under the 10th development plan. So we are going to the level in two years time. So it's already implemented into that. We also have the economic transformation program which also talks about land sector issues as well as in line with our sustainable development goals. The red plus implementation is actually guided by the National Land Code, the National Forestry Act, Wildlife Act and many many other acts. I was just too lazy to put all of them down. And we also have enough national policies to guide us. Geretically we don't need any other policies but we still come up with a strategy. Next please. So for us red plus implementation actions are implemented at sub-national whereas monitoring and the different reporting and verification will be done at national level. Again for the safeguards will be followed the same process. Next. So was it useful for us after close to three years? I also must say Malaysia don't have international funds. I envy my fellow colleagues in the Asia region. It's all basically from national funds. Yes, we upscaled our best practices. Forest red plus is not something we started post Bali Action Plan but since 1990s. Common challenges were addressed. We also built cross we also built capacity building because one state may be more advanced in certain areas another state is better in another area so we just do our capacity accordingly. And because of this there's greater awareness among the policy makers and that help us jump start our process. And next slide please. I'm not going through all. Nothing is smooth and easy. We have our own challenges. Of course managing expectation is something that's quite difficult. We also have methodological issues. We also have some gaps in information, measurements and also we have issues with funds. How do we use this funds when funds are rather limited? How do we use this funds to get the maximum benefit? I think. In conclusion what I would like to say is the energy conditions for red plus implementation is already available. Forest policy and governance issue has been addressed through our different legislation both at federal and state level. We have some forest management but it's not perfect. As you know I don't think any country in the world has a perfect forest management system. We already have an MRE system that was done in the past but now we have to scale up to the other decisions that's required for red plus implementation. Finally we also have a national forest monitoring system in place since 2000. Now we are also upscaling some of it to some regions that do not have this and you see the red safeguard information system is missing. We have that and we are working with our colleagues from the biodiversity group to harmonize this together. With that I thank you. That's a shout for the time. So the next speaker will team under the red plus agency of the Republic of Indonesia. He was also under the same thematic task force under the president of the United States and we called UKP4 Indonesia. He got his PhD master in PhD from New Japan with special interest in biomass estimation using remote sensing. He is going to present development of REL or RML for red plus in Indonesia approach, challenges and less than that. Thank you very much for all of you good afternoon for everybody. So I will different from other speakers that most of them talk about OCE so I will speak about the aspect of the red plus agency reference emission network. Yeah because it's only 5 minutes I will also talk very fast and if you don't understand what I presented you please ask in the discussion. And of course as you know that the reference emission level is the red plus. So we know that there are two references. The first is reference emission level and the second is reference level. So they are different which someone maybe say that oh there is no difference but for us it's different. So reference level meaning that we count the historical of emission then the reference level meaning that we count the historical of emission and also the historical of removal. So this is two different definition from the reference itself. And then what is our position now, our step to be taken for defining or starting the red plus which is we already stated that we are moving from the readiness in the transformation phase meaning the reference emission level or reference level should be ready by the end of this year. So next part. This is our currently used the stepwise approach to define the reference level or reference emission level. So stepwise meaning we can choose which is the best which is the most appropriate from to our condition now. Then because we know that we have rational circumstances and also data availability then so we count the emission from 2000 to 2009 as you see the reference time is 2009. This is the year that we take because this is the data that such as in CAS will tell you later. And how we set the reference emission level we take the we select we select the data then we map the data of the age of historical emission so you can see the red line so we start 2014 and we will be taken yearly. How can we measure the reference actually I have 60 slides for how we measure the reference. This is our data. 2011 actually. But we choose the 2009. Take this as written in our major mantra and we want to have this composition and reference. So how we measure the emission from the device. This is our methodology. Next one. And we define the process as the Central Kalimantan and this is the number. This is the working document so you can see the number but this is our working document so maybe change little bit but maybe the number is around this. That's all for my presentation. I think that was a tough topic in 1991 and in hand under five years time. Monitoring and assessment for in two arms but firstly for a year and secondly for a release. Each chain is divided by using different climates and different times. For cycle one from 1991 to 1995 with resolution 30 by 30 meter was used for detecting changes for a year. By interpretation I mean at the NSDM as well as 250,000 and for a map in the same square. For cycle two from 1996 to 2000 for three in bed this was 15 by 15 meter was used for for a mapping. This was equivalent with for a type map at 12 to 100,000. For three in bed was used for form of green color from 2001 to 2005 for a type map was used based on the interpretation of landscape EDM image. Vietnam also started to apply for visual interpretation on PC. The for a type map was used for sub-nation level from 2006 to 2010. For type map with resolution resolution 2.5 by 2.5 meter was used for for a mapping. To improve the level. The digital image was with support of that image from AXIA and from 2012 because in software the digital image is being used. For everyday since 1991 a systematic sample system has been set up in whole country with a grid 8 by 18 meter size of sample is the 100 hectare. In each sample with size 500 it takes a little from sorry and identified by for a type sample uchi, renalization g, bamboo, vegetation soiling and socio-economic in the United States to be assessed species composition forest and ecological status on and conditionally renalization the other four conditionally vegetation and socio-economic and for monitoring for that area at the level set up with digital resolution and using automatic interpretation method as a model. The maintenance of inventory should be considered by to align with the set line set line in the interpretation and sample for monitoring for that quality a sample procedure with digital 8 by 18 meter but only for Vietnamese to be suitable the set of sample should be the outside should be for decreasing cost next step in Vietnam for monitoring carbon stop research to find out the converted factor to carbon stop to take forward to carry out for classification system would be hybridizing FAAI FAAI classification for that thank you and he presentation on development of natural forest systems and MRV system in Vietnam the speaker got not least so we started with lady and we are going to the speaker is also lady but not please please miss legal and policy specialist with the climate change and environment cluster of the attenuous school of carbon in the Philippines just going to present developing safeguards and non-carbon benefits and right plus implementation in the Philippines please thank you Pat good afternoon everyone so just a very quick overview of the Philippines as of 2010 the forest cover of the Philippines the percentage compared to our land area is about 25.7% so there is just in terms of the forest cover there is a very big urgent need to really increase efforts to address the situation aside from that there is that make red plus an idea activity to be engaged in the Philippines so we have a very rights based and community based legal framework that's already existing in terms of indigenous peoples and community participation we also are one of the biodiversity hotspots top biodiversity hotspots in the world so it's also urgent to address this issue and also we see red plus is offering to bolster good governance in the forestry sector so like I said a while ago we already have a very solid and comprehensive policy framework so our constitution our values loss in terms of environment and natural management sorry natural resource management indigenous peoples rights our forest policies and even our local government for they all contain the laws and policies that may be applicable to red plus so the enabling policy framework is already existing we also have climate specific laws and policies we already have our climate change app and company strategy and plan and we already have the Philippine national red plus strategy and one since I'm talking about safeguards and non-carbon benefits one unique aspect of our red plus strategy is that it came out before the Cancun safeguards were agreed on so it came out in 2010 before the Cancun safeguards but even without reference to the Cancun safeguards the PNRPS as we call the strategy already has the foundational elements to enable us to carry out the development of safeguards and identification of non-carbon benefits so this is just kind of the timeline and it just please click the last last there's another box there yes so this is a process that shows what the PNRPS went through it was a very collaborative and very stakeholder driven process from it was a one year series of consultations and expert workshops etc but it was very bottom up and multi stakeholder and if you read the PNRPS it really shows how inclusive and participatory it is and I'll go through some detail of the PNRPS in the next slides so the impact areas actually there's a very big emphasis not only on carbon so we know red plus is a mitigation strategy as agreed in the UNFQC but our impact areas include poverty alleviation biodiversity conservation and even government so these are all things that are valued in the Philippines when we implement the red plus next slide please and we call it the triple currency approach so these are the seven components of the strategy but like I said what it should amount to is not only the carbon results but also community and biodiversity so we call that the triple currency when we look at how we can benefit as a fund from red plus we don't only look at the carbon who benefit the reduction of carbon emissions but also the benefits to community to our local communities and to biodiversity so this is just a summary that I pretty much already explained so we can go to the next slide and also this is just a rundown of the initiatives on safeguards and noncarbon benefits so these are not all the initiatives on red plus we have in Philippines or they don't all cover things related to safeguards and noncarbon benefits but they do focus on safeguards and noncarbon benefits in various ways so we have policy studies we had an initial new red program until last year and now we also have projects focusing more specifically on safeguards in developing the safeguards information system and so the challenges that we have the first is assessing and analyzing institutional arrangement so we know that we should be building on existing systems and arrangements but before you build on them you have to understand them what are the gaps and the strengths and tailor them accordingly to meet your red plus needs and that can be very challenging also monitoring and evaluating safeguards implementation so now we're just rolling out our initiative to develop our safeguard information system and we know that we're hearing up for that in the next few years and of course ensuring sustainability of financing but I don't think that's a unique to the Philippines as I just mentioned earlier so lessons learned just please click through all of them I guess there are five main lessons from the development of our safeguards and noncarbon benefits first is that we really should look beyond carbon when we're talking about red plus because it really will ensure the long-term sustainability of carbon results and also benefit other sectors not only in terms of mitigation and it may involve some investment on the part of government but it's worthwhile and long-term investment civil society in the Philippines we really recommend that civil society participation can really have a big influence on the policy development and implementation of red plus safeguards and noncarbon benefits and like I said before it's important to build an existing system especially at the local level so that we can get by from different stakeholders and avoid a multiplicity of efforts and lastly safeguards offer a mitigation of a risk mitigation approach so and it should be communicated as such it's not an additional burden it's not an extra a layer of things that you know you don't really need if we really have countries mitigating the risks of implementing red plus and their price will reflect that. Thank you very much I have different countries also 10 different countries in Asia probably you also see that what they presented actually is rather diverse from one country to another country this is by design of ARKM to inform you how ASEAN is actually work together on climate change and give some lesson with some emphasizing on each of the countries if you see like the just mentioned she has focused on safeguards and then Michael our colleague Chun and Jeremy and Cambodia talking about the driver of deforestation and decision support tools and Dr. Phillips talking about more on policy in Malaysia experiences and Mr. Muiak talking about forest monitoring system and also inventory and then last but not least Arif Dharmak Darmawan from Indonesia is a kid who has learnt in Indonesia side especially on RDA and RR this topic actually are required under Red Plus infrastructure so far under the COPS UFCCC what we are doing in ASEAN hopefully will be more focused and focused transforming also giving lessons from each other and then strengthening our position on implementation of Red Plus in ASEAN countries so now it's time for you to give a kind of comments suggestion or question whatever we still have a little bit ample time around 30 minutes from question and answer so I would like to invite first 5 questions please 1 2 3 here so please introduce yourself and give a question for please thank you my name is Syabir from Indonesia and from the first 3 speakers I did come to both countries Indonesia and Taiwan have a kind of similar problem probably because either it is classified or too sensitive I wonder how do you deal with such political difficulties and the second one for Malaysian speakers I know that like a solid policy configuration and you have seen a commenting in the national level but I wonder if when it comes to the need of coordination among Ministers and also the way to implement program in state level I believe a state characteristic is different from a province so could you please thank you may I ask your institution actually I am working for national institute of public administration but currently I am a student the second question is lady thank you my name is Rene from Victoria University of Wellington I would like to ask speakers from Indonesia Buk Nur Masri Batin and Arif Danmawan many red plus initiatives have been done since 2007 red plus institutions in Indonesia is really strong my question is how far do you think that red plus has changed the forest governance in Indonesia thank you thank you good afternoon everyone my name is Jeffrey Blee and I am with the US Forest Service Regional Forest Advisor thank you so much to all the speakers and to you Pak for convening this session I'd like to congratulate the knowledge network because it sounds like there has been progress I am quite curious about what the next steps are as we heard and you pointed out there is quite a diversity of challenges and progress shall we say amongst the countries and I imagine it would be quite challenging to be here but if the speakers could comment on or you could comment on what the specific next steps for ARK and FCC are to move the region toward greater progress with red plus perhaps in the negotiations globally or just here in the region and if I may ask a very specific question about the non-carbon benefits from our last speaker to what extent is the network thinking about those non-carbon benefits and both the adaptation and the mitigation side thank you Dr. Sochita Dr. Sochita Mr. Sochita Mr. Sochita Mr. Sochita Mr. Sochita Mr. Sochita Mr. Sochita as in as Asia they really explain the presentation have to make some they are first of the Indonesia since you have a number islands different places, different треть drivers of the presentation have different degree of interest help getting up with the national level different degree of drivers. Some island may have the, the, some one different rate, and the other maybe you don't, very low difference rate, how to come up with the, every one for the national, different levels. And they come to the sixth question, to the Oakley from Vietnam that they mentioned. You come up with the conclusion the sample plot should be outshipped. What the city becomes outshipped from, from the other, out of shape and why you pick up that one. And the last one for the league from Philippine, they mentioned about the, you come up with the safeguards, whether significant again before they can come. And they, they heard that they, your country developed national, national red strategy in France by the, by the, uh, NGO, civil society. And then come, normally in the beginning red pass is, is challenged for different stakeholders, some, they could even not, don't mind red pass. And why your country is mistaken that why red pass is, is the opportunity and why the civil society come up and help government to develop national strategy. It's very, very, very interesting, but I'd like to thank you. Tudra, and then the last question. Thank you for the opportunity given to me. I'm Steve Harrison. Uh, I'm Indonesian representative on Asia Youth Climate Network, NYCM. Um, my question is delivered to Ibu Nur as the director of ARMKD. My question is, uh, is there any specific mechanism in ARMKD to deal with the factor of social engagement or community participation to achieve, uh, goals of, uh, IEDD plus implementation in the, uh, in the regional framework. Thank you. Uh, now it's already five, so I'd like to give a time for presenters to give a response, although not significantly, but really for whom some of them giving a question. So I'd like to ask all of you to give comments or, or response for that kind of question. I think it's a very good question. So, uh, because Wunor has since submitted a lot of comments and questions, uh, given to you, please, Wunor. Thank you, Pa. Thank you, thank you, uh, colleague for the comments and, uh, question. Uh, I think the question for, uh, specific to Indonesia, uh, we'll go to Pa Arif. I will just add her sound. Um, I will address specific, uh, question, uh, from Purini, there is, there was specific question to me, uh, how far that plus has changed our forest governance. Uh, as Indonesian, you know, how difficult it was to bring, uh, all sectors, uh, together, policy related to, uh, land-based, uh, sectors, um, talking about the spatial planning. So, um, the way I see it, Red Cross in Indonesia should be seen as no regret policy and action. So whatever we do ponder, there is positive impact. We should see. And when it's the negative impact, we have to. And, um, sorry, I couldn't get your name, um, from the U.S. Forest Service. Thank you, uh, for your comments and, um, this is a good question because I didn't have time to, uh, explain it in the slightest. So, five minutes was gone. Um, the next step is, um, at the international level, we will continue to work, uh, to express our position and interest. And, uh, so far, uh, ASEAN, uh, member states, has been recognized as the group that, the, the extreme position right and left. So, uh, this is, uh, the thing that ASEAN, uh, threw out and XSEAN negotiated some idea what we play at the international level. So, we will continue their roles, balancing the position so that we could reach consensus, uh, without forgetting that we go to negotiation is to take care of our national interest. That's at the international level, at the regional level, we will continue to work together. Now, resources come through many different channels. Uh, we use also, uh, one that goes through ASEAN, for example, KFCC, goes through ASEAN. And GIC also has bilateral cooperation with individuals at ASEAN. What we will do in the future is a scale down from ASEAN level to national and, uh, scale up from national to regional. And we work also, uh, from regional to international. So, what, uh, we will plan to do, and so far we have done so. And now, uh, RELAT national will go to ARIK, uh, from CITRA. Um, I think it's not only, you know, it's a part of the drill, actually. I should prevent myself from answering. Um, from youth. Um, so far we have found, had mechanisms in place to, uh, address, uh, the social engagement at the regional level as we know that a social engagement is very unique from one country to other countries. Um, uh, through this network we will learn what are common in all regions so that we could develop mechanisms that we could bring to regional level. Otherwise, we have to recognize the differences, the diversity with this within us, and we will draw what lessons we could learn from it. Thank you, Paolo. Thank you, Paolo. Uh, next, uh... Thank you, Paolo. Um, just two, two, two questions, uh, related to my presentation. To what extent is the network thinking about non-carbon benefits? Actually, we, uh, the last meeting of ARIK in February and March... March, yes, just, uh, recently we developed, uh, a submission of the network on non-carbon benefits and non-market based approaches, uh, because there was a poll for submissions from the UNFCCC. So we do have, we've had, um, some, uh, we've had extensive discussions on what we agree on as a network, and I guess, uh, and, um, I think my colleagues can add, but I think some of the highlights is that we think that, um, countries should be able to define what their non-carbon benefits are because it can vary very widely from country to country and from one community to the next. Um, and, uh, in terms of adaptation and mitigation, if we did state in this submission that, um, non-carbon benefits have, uh, uh, impacts, should have impacts in terms of both mitigation and mitigation. And I think it's now on the UNFCCC website if you'd like to read the whole thing. Um, and to Mr. Cheater's question, uh, why civil society had this initiative, I think, uh, partly it's that in general the Philippines has a very strong civil society to begin with, so very involved, um, and NGOs, academe in various aspects of, uh, society and especially in the environment. Um, so the UN, the UNFCCC is one, uh, arena in which civil society has been engaged or they've been following since, um, Bali. And when Red Plus became, uh, with, with the process to discuss Red Plus was launched in Bali, it was one of the areas that civil society really looked at and studied whether it can be, uh, beneficial to engage in as a country. So, uh, I don't think it was, um, I guess, I guess that's, that's what grafters think that it was a strong civil society to begin with. And, um, government is also very open and willing to discuss and, and to engage in more multistakeholder and participatory processes. So, uh, the discussion and dialogue between the two, um, was quite, uh, open and successful. And I think that's carried through in the development of the strategy until today. Comment? I think there was a, maybe the first question, uh, about sensitivity, sensitivities in Indonesia and Cambodia, is that right? Okay, so, um, I think maybe, uh, children can correct me if I'm wrong, but some of the sensitivities in Cambodia are about, uh, during the driver's, uh, assessment and, uh, addressing process are identifying actors associated with, uh, different drivers. So, uh, you know, the kind of naming names, uh, the kind of things. So, um, and what we're doing there is, is trying to approach different actors, uh, individually or through, uh, through the forum and, uh, considering how we can, uh, basically appeal to, uh, companies and private sector partners or, uh, those involved with foreign direct investment to see, uh, if there are ways in which, uh, uh, different objectives can be aligned. So, as, uh, I think, uh, in the morning session, there was discussion about how the objectives of different sectors have to be aligned and we're not trying to, uh, or, I don't think it was time to say that we should stop economic development or, um, change the, you know, just stop, stop everything in these tracks and cause lots of, lots of economic disruption. So, the, so the challenges, uh, I think when addressing these sensitive issues is to try and get a, uh, custom, try and find some common ground so that we can address this issue of the trade-off between economic development and environmental sustainability. So, I hope there's some, some useful information. Perfect. Uh, I just, I just want to make to what I'm here to mention. Actually, uh, in the table here at the password map, we already identified drivers as shown in the presentation, but actually the sensitive issues were that, um, in the past periods, uh, different stakeholders, they have different data on drivers. Even the government, we also have our own data, kind of near research, NGO. The thing is that it's hardly to harmonize each other and, um, it's hardly to, um, make sure that the data is really, um, accurate. So, this is one of the key problems that we are working right now. We try to harmonize all of our ground drivers that reflect to the data of, for instance, like other involved in national, international events. Thank you. Thank you. First of all, I'll answer the question that was directed to me, then I'll just add on to two other questions. I'll just leave my comments. On the question how do we harmonize between sub-national and national implementation, um, it is quite straightforward for us, because before we do any, any policy or action plan or even strategy, we need to have stakeholder consultation. So, we do that, so from the stakeholder consultation, we develop our way forward, and then it's brought to the national, uh, land council meeting, and the biodiversity council as well as the climate change council. So, um, the land council is actually a legally binding council where whatever actions and whatever decision is made, the sub-nationals have to come up with regulation and implement them. So, that's how we address, uh, land plants or even any forestry issues. I hope, um, I've answered your question. And, um, Sujitra did ask about, uh, uh, local communities and NGO participation. Actually, in my country where we don't have funds, we work very closely with, uh, NGOs and local communities too. WWF was with us when we did our one and only UNDP readiness project. And then WWF was also helping out sub-state government in doing, uh, the EU project. And also GEC this morning, you heard from Faisal. He didn't mention that, but he was also instrumental. So, we have this, this bridging process at, uh, in Malaysia. And the third question someone asked about, um, what is the, uh, the, what we see this network would take us, what's the next action plan? Okay. So, I think, uh, this has been a very enriching network. And one thing that I do see as, uh, Ibu Nor and Aya has already mentioned non-carbon benefits is national, uh, agenda. And we have 10 countries with 10 national agendas, with different progress and different definition and understanding of non-carbon benefits. So, I think we can learn from this process how each country handles the different aspects. And then probably we could, we could do from there to come out with our own national agenda. I think that's something that will go on when the, uh, the discussion of non-carbon benefits progresses. Thank you. Thank you. Mr. Muya, this question about the White House, it's a bit more than as I said, yeah. When we something design, um, something design for some of the system, we use, uh, use a tool, uh, a tool is called a simulation something design for, uh, for everything, for everything. Yeah. The first, the first step is we are, we are building for that to build a full map, full map, the second you run the tool, you run the tool on the full map for predict, predict the accuracy and cost for each method, each, each method. So that, um, up to input, uh, the, um, the tool is, uh, uh, set of some to, you can put the L set and A set and, uh, mid-time set and spare set, uh, some in the top, input, uh, the tool, uh, up to that you input, uh, distant uh, distant between blocks, between, uh, up to that you run the tool, the tool on the full map, the output is a accurate, it's an accurate, accurate, see, and, uh, estimate the cost of each method. Um, I can, I only take a sense of the algorithm, because my image is not good, so that I hope it is safe. I'm sorry. Thank you. Sorry. Thank you. Uh, about the first question about the problem of data. Uh, actually we have, uh, at least two problems. The first is technical and the second is un-technical. The technical problem is about the, the cloud. We cannot, uh, remove the cloud. We need to find a way to remove the cloud, so this is our middle problem of the most sensing in our country. In our country, and not in, I don't know, in, uh, other countries. But in our country it's very, very bad. So this is our first problem. So that's why we are proposing annual reporting, not annual reporting for it. So that's why, uh, I think two, uh, two years is, uh, you know, we have, uh, ample time to have, uh, good data. And second, uh, problem of data is technical, meaning that, of course in other countries, uh, have also the same similar problem, which is um, transparency of data and sharing of data is problem, you know. So in our understanding, Red Class is about, uh, to share the data. Because we have anything about, you know, plantation, we have forestry, we have, you know, many energy, etc. So it's about the land we need to have good data about land. So we, when we talk about land that many, not only forestry, not only agriculture, but many sectors is play, play on the ground meaning that, uh, this is our, so can I say, our to answer the second question. So, did, uh, Eric Plus, first governance, yes, of course a little bit, a little bit, a little one of, uh, I mean, the successful basic process which, uh, each sector opens their data. So we have, uh, we have forestry, we have agriculture, we have, uh, land administration agency, we have, uh, Ministry of Energy, they open the data and we build the moratory map. So this is our, uh, achievement as a country to build that map because we are talking, you know, in the previous time, we are not talking just work ourselves, we saw forestry working, we saw agriculture working and it's, it's, it's very, uh, okay, it's very, uh, we need time to, to talk. So this is our, including, uh, yeah, although it's still not saying that red glass is both carbon, but governance is also the, the the great achievement. And then, about violence, yes, this is, uh, an issue in the countries, in the country where frustration in Central Kalimantan is different with the frustration Ache, for example, and in Bagua. So that's why we build this national. So we are not doing the national number, but we are doing the province, population, then we are doing, uh, consultation with the province, then we are a great act. So that's the, that's the, we still have five minute left, so I'd like to give Bruno to my British experience, just one minute. Thank you, uh, uh, this is, this is a special to respond to, uh, Srijitra about the challenges and, uh, developing reference innocence level as we, uh, uh, different drivers. I think the biggest challenge for Indonesia is forest area is about 70% of our country land area. We have about 250 million population and is expected to have close to 300 in 2030. Establishing reference innocence level need to take into account of what Indonesia want to be in 2030 and this is not easy. So this is the biggest challenge, uh, for us, um, about half minutes, uh, to go back to, uh, resistance for tool, actually for Indonesia at the national level, there is no sensitive, uh, issue because there is national circumstances and sovereignty taken care in that, this is not about tool, uh, so there is no sensitivity there, becomes sensitive when we bring to regional level because we expect to use that at different level, uh, regional, national and local level. Thank you, Pa. Thank you very much, uh, oh. Uh, just, uh, half minutes. Thank you very much for giving, uh, this half minute. My name is Mahmood. I am the Red Fork and for Government of Pakistan. Uh, we are looking at your experiences and learning lessons from what you are doing. And one particular question, uh, I want to ask, especially in Indonesia and Cambodia, uh, have you developed some protocols or systems for, uh, sub-national level financing by private entrepreneurs because we hear that they have worked with you and some are also contacting us and we don't know if you should tell them no or we should tell them yes. Welcome. And how have you developed some protocols we want to share and you get your, uh, experience. Thank you, Mr. Mahmood. Thank you. Uh, this is easy question but difficult to, to answer. Uh, at the moment we haven't, uh, had a formal mechanism uh, in place. What we have is trying, uh, to have dialogue or to develop, uh, mechanism and as mechanism need to go through the dialogue and, uh, before it is decided. So, uh, if you ask me, we don't have, uh, that the formal mechanism but, uh, under the first investment program we will exercise that at, uh, local level. But it's not starting now. Thank you, Mr. Uh, sorry everybody, it's time is almost finished. I like to, I don't want to give again summary of the discussion but I like to give in the science that what ASEAN countries working actually to have a good network to work together to have a, uh, exchange level or web plus and hopefully in the near future ASEAN countries will have a very solid, uh, commitment and working as Mr. Lunar mentioned working in, uh, all UNFCC uh, event to have in balance between black and red wings group. That's what I think is ASEAN countries, uh, like to do this work. The last things that I also do in the science here, uh, do in head plus is the biggest opportunity for us in tropical countries to see the remaining natural force. That's, I think it's I like to highlight what we are doing in head plus. Again, thank you very much for your attention and please take care.