 People of the internet welcome to modern Night, we are committing is gravity a hoax. We have iron horse aka flat earth Aussie crossing swords with tea jump and Going first night is flat earth Aussie. So I will turn it over to him for a ten minute opening statement flat earth Aussie I mean iron horse. Excuse me. The flat the floor is all yours No, I thank you guys and Good to be here. Good to see you again T jump. I'm gonna do a short introduction of myself My name is Ross Thatcher. My YouTube moniker is iron horse formerly known by the joke name flat earth Aussie Jesus I haven't always been a flat earther I was born and raised in the country and just as I was entering the home computer age Writing programs using every bit and bite my Commodore bit 20 had to offer at 13 years of age. I moved to the coast There I discovered surfing mates girls and rugby league football I tend to exploring the coastline rather than computers for many years I spent my 16th year as an exchange student in North California, which gave me a greater appreciation for Australia and our education standards My love of nature eventually led me to an ideal career as a pet store owner when my wife and I bought a small pet store That are just closed down We took over the day our eldest daughter turned two and my son was just three months old Our youngest order was practically born in the place Conveniently waiting until five minutes after closing to be born Seven years later the business sold for over $200,000 profit on what we had as part of a property settlement on our divorce I went on to run a successful contract cleaning business for the next five years Cleaning all night and studying nature's ways by day the ocean the forests the weather the stars The moon the tides all these things were my life my lifestyle as well as studying natural health and healing and brewing my own health Tonics This coming winter solstice. I'll be revolutioning so turning 51 years young happily engaged with my beautiful 15 year younger fiancee and Flat Earth truth and realization has dominated my existence after formally being interested in all manner of hidden truths about our reality Being interested in all manner of hidden finish that today on 10 to destroy the ridiculous notion that mass attracts mass and liquids and gas by virtue of being massive Contained by the non-solid barrier of absolutely nothing Does gravity exist? So far as the scientific consensus of things of mass dropping through the medium of air at 9.8 meters per second squared Absolutely, that's the observable consensus of physics everywhere on the plane or earth The question is why does the ground stop things dropping the answer is resistance Resistance from what the density of the ground so far densities already winning over gravity So one point to resistance as the fourth zero to gravity Well, why doesn't it fall up asks every incredulous globe lover global ever? Well, what sort of resistance does the density of air give? Well, free force beaded off as very little resistance most of which can be explained solely by the attributes of shape alone Though relative density is definitely a real influencing factor as well Clearly the heliocentric web of lies is 100% relying on the unproven belief in invisible pulling force of mass Proven the most simple definition for their spinning spaceport to be even remotely viable as a scientific belief The idea that everything of mass is pulled towards the center is the height of pseudo scientific belief Unnecessary unrequired absolutely extraneous to the reality of the stationary plan of earth. We clearly live upon I'll use some real-world examples momentarily but to entertain the space age fantasy today's heliolists It's where allegiance to I challenge my space-brained opponent to find just one example of everyday life experiences Taken from space showing ships or planes from a distance Seeming to appear to operate upside down or sideways on the spinning spaceport or even any object dropping in the direction Apart from the universe the observed direction of down We all know the fancy flu excuse is used to gloss over the absolute absence of any of earth's motions Yet when a skydiver leaps from a moving plane They very quickly lose the plane's momentum and drop straight down to the awaiting earth Exhibiting absolutely zero of its alleged actual rotation motion Yet imagine landing on the back of a speeding train at 100 miles per hour It's barely moving one-tenth the speed of the earth's spin Yet the sudden change in speed would be likely to rip their legs out from beneath them earning them the day Earning the daredevil a posthumous award into the Darwin Hall of Fame Even the most simple experiments can dismiss any motion of the earth Which is just as important a factor of the heliocentric dialect as the easily equally mythical gravity We drop a rubber ball onto a moving conveyor belt the momentum of even a slow moving belt will impart some momentum onto the bouncy ball And it will rebound in the direction of the momentum no matter how tiny the speed Yet drop it directly onto the floor it drops straight down it bounces straight up According to our heliocentric faithful followers the ground isn't just moving eastwards at over a thousand miles per hour But has another velocity on its annual journey around the sun the equivalent of almost 87 times the speed of sound So basically we're told this invisible pulling force of gravity is pulling the ball inwards towards it With such force that the ball falls sideways two different directions one at max speed of 1.35 The other at max 87 all in order to create an optical illusion of dropping straight down And bouncing straight up But a relatively tiny speed of a treadmill even moving just one mile per hour One seven hundred and seventy sixth of the speed of sound and gravity doesn't know to correct for that Maybe the stationary planner earth it here and could be forgiven for thinking earth isn't moving at all That there's a universal up and down and without the need to keep everything clinging to the underneath and sides of a ball Spinning through space that the belief in the theory of gravity is totally extraneous to everyday observable physics I can give multiple examples how relative density is basically the only relevant requirement Now that we've analyzed and dismissed all that is absurd about previously believed earthly phenomena Let's take three balls identical in size a lead shot foot a solid rubber ball and a ball styrofoam Taken and released from a high bridge the rubber and lead ball will hit the water at the exact same moment The styrofoam has the same air resistance yet due to the properties of its density Or more correctly its air content in its physical makeup It actually possesses some amount of buoyancy in the medium of air by comparison an airfield balloon would waft down even more slowly But both the solid balls with no air content drop 9.8 meters per second squared in the medium of air As they both possess the same air resistance, but now in water gravity gets selective Why it pulls the lead ball down to the solid bed of the water that leaves the rubber ball floating on the surface This is a prime example of relative density and buoyancy Well, it might be reasonable to say that the word weight can be substituted in many instances where the word gravity is used Even that would be a gross oversimplification Even though the very word gravity was originally borrowed from the latin gravus, which literally translates as weight It's quite simple to prove that relative density also relies upon the attribute of volume This thoroughly debunks any last notion of an invisible pulling force of mass attracting mass Which I'll put to rest by retrieving the lead ball from the bottom of the river and weighing it Exactly five kilograms whatever newtons of pulling fourth earth's center is allegedly exerting on it I hammer and beat and roll it flat then shape it into a dish. I weigh it again Still exactly five kilograms same amount of raw mass But now when I place in water it magically floats. What sort of wizardry can debunk the force of gravity so easily By altering the volume and turning it into a container of air which also has extra mass and weight it now floats relative density wins a game Another example a way an empty balloon it weighs 100 grams It sits flaccidly on the ground I place a canister of helium on the scale It weighs 10 kilos. I feel the balloon from the canister until the scale shows it weighs nine kilograms So now the balloon with a knot tied into it must weigh 1,100 grams or 1.1 kilograms Its overall mass has increased by a kilogram But its overall volume has to at least a cubic meter of increased to a cubic meter or more And we know that the mass of the ceiling cannot possibly contain more gravity than the earth beneath The relative density of the volume of the balloon relative to the density of air finally Satisfies the globe incessantly the globey incessantly asking why down why not up? Gravity is not only an outdated theory for an outdated mythical belief belief But we can equally dismiss it as the ancient superstitious explanation for tides It may have served its purpose very well as the go-to god of the gaps throughout our former somewhat darker ages Yet the explanation of how the one mass of only one moon can pull water by virtue of its own mass Twice per day has to be on par as ridiculous as a pressurized atmosphere Bounded by a vacuum like a helium balloon stuck to the ceiling with no balloon The global will demand that the moon's gravity will pull the oceans towards it for tide one Then pull the earth itself through its own ocean to create tide two on the inside Not only would this immediately negate tide one the six times stronger gravity of earth would be pulling with the moon That's negating tide two no matter how much spin they put on it Not only was the moon the final nail in the heliocentric coffin when I last met t jump negating fictional space I'll leave it as the final word debunking gravity on the absurd spinning space ball called belief All right. Thank you so much iron horse And we will go ahead and kick it over to t jump for his 10 minute opening statement T jump the floor is all yours Gravity is really easy to prove all we do is take a container Suck out all the air making a vacuum put an object in it and for some reason Even though there's nothing in there to cause relative density. It's completely empty. It's a vacuum. It will still fall down And if you turn the container upside down And put a ball in it it'll still fall down Which means there has to be some force that isn't relative density That is causing objects to go down And not up Because if we have a vacuum, there's no relative density But it's still going down for some reason that disproves relative density and disproves All of flatter off his argument and shows that there must be some force to pull things through a vacuum And we're going to call that gravity and it works Everything else he said is scientifically wrong. The moon Does pull water in one direction if you pull water in one direction in a tub The water on the other side will come to fill the giant hole that's placed and that creates a second wave I go that's where you have double double different tides different times the day because If there's an absence of water the rest of the water is going to feel to go into rush to fill the absence There you go two two Tides pretty easy Yeah, it's not not hard to prove that at all There's also like the at most effect if you are traveling east You are actually lighter than if you're traveling west because Of these effects. So it's not like this is hard stuff. I don't know what Ozzy's confused about Gravity's proven by vacuums and dropping balls in them problem solved I'll conclude there All right, thank you so much t-jump for your opening statement And let me just say to everybody in the chat I want to let you know especially if it's your first time joining us at modern day debate that we are a neutral platform Hosting debates on science religion and politics and we want you to feel welcome no matter what walk of life You're from and if you have a question for or comment for one of tonight's debaters Please fire into the old live chat and be sure to tag me at modern day debates Super chats go to the top of the list. They will get first priority All we ask that you please keep it civil attack the argument and not the person as insults will not be read And that goes for the general discourse in the live chat as well Our invaluable moderators are working tirelessly to elevate the conversation So please show them the show them and the debaters and each other the respective not hurling insults and attacks Our guests are linked in the description below whether you're listening on youtube or via the podcast as well So, um, please if you like what you're hearing, please check them out click on their links and kill them some love Hit the like button if you like what you're hearing subscribe so you can hear more juicy debates in the future And also in the description, there'll be a link to the after show tonight that i'm going to be putting on I believe flat earth ozzy. I'm sorry iron horse is going to be joining me And I think t-jump as well for a little bit. Um, and then also With that we will kick it into the open discussion for one hour gentlemen. The floor is all yours. It's your first word You're muted. I'm sorry. I have him muted. I think my bad Go ahead. Um, yeah, I just want to quickly mention before we go any further I'm having real trouble clearing this here is any chance you can turn it up on the app that we're doing this through Because I really struggled to hear t-jump through that Um, I can't control his volume Uh, do you have a volume button on your phone? Yeah, I've got to turn it right up and um, it's like only half volume or something Anyway, I'll work with it. I'll just struggle to listen in to Whatever sort of responses you have you started off with saying a vacuum is a proof of gravity But you've got it all totally basquered. It's like usual is that the fact is that a vacuum is a complete lack of density So why would a complete lack of density have more resistance to say water or Mercury or something that has a lot of resistance now we can float an anvil in mercury We can float a rubber ball in water, but nothing is going to float in a vacuum So the vacuum is the absolutely worst example you're possibly used to counteract relative density It's the complete total lack of density How does density apply a force in one direction or the other? Well, it's it's not applying a force the force is resistance So if it stops something from dropping then that's the resistant force if there's no density, there's no resistance So it drops right right so density if relative density is a resistance And there has to be something else applying a force to cause it to go down to resisting against right? Well, yeah, if you lifted it up in the first place if you less lift it left at resting on the ground It's not going to go anywhere So you pick something up. That's the force you let it go The reaction is dropping if you don't pick it up. It won't react it won't drop So density is a resistance. It stops things from falling like if it's on the ground It's resisting it to stop it from falling if there was nothing there it would fall right if like the ground disappears fall So there has to be a very very basic very obvious Right, I think we can observe everywhere all there has to be a force causing it to go down Why is it going down in the first place? You didn't listen to what I just said. There's no force Making it go down. There's a lack of a force nothing resisting it. So that's what it does When with the first observation in anything you do in science Is you make the observation first then you design the argument to support it one way or the next What do we observe in nature is things drop unless they've got something of density beneath them to resist them There's no evidence of anything falling sideways towards something due to its mass it all goes universally straight down That's physics first law of it observation Yeah, so if there's zero forces there is zero movement. So any movement requires a force So if it's going down that means there has to be a force Causing it to go down Otherwise it would do nothing if there's no forces it would do nothing would just stay there and do nothing So there has to be a force causing things to go down Right. Well, actually there's a force causing things to stop falling and that is density Without that it will just keep dropping as we've already asserted You don't need a force to cause it. You need a force to lift it in the first place So I can stop this from falling. I've stopped it. It is now stopped. It is no longer falling But if I let it go it starts to fall. There's more force that's been added to it You were resisting it. Where where where does the force coming from when I let it go Something has to add force to it to make it go down. What is the thing adding the force to it to make it go down? No, you are creating a resistant force with your hand and you're removing a resistant force Resistance is irrelevant here. I don't care about the resistance. Why does it continue to speed up when I let it go It goes faster in fact Why does it go faster if it was it has to change it goes from zero To plus one meter per second two meters per second three meters per second It's speeding up. It's going faster. How is it going faster? What what is adding speed to it? by virtue of its own mass And the lack of resistance of the medium of air as I said, if you dropped it in water, it's not going to drop that Because the water has more density Ozzie you need a positive number here something needs to add a force to it You can't just say it automatically adds a force to itself It can't do that because it could add if it was only itself Then it would go in no direction So the reason it's going in one direction not the other direction Has to be there has to be something there To add a force to the thing to make it go in one direction Not the other direction the thing itself can't do that the objects within its own mass Can never cause it to go down on its own It can't do that because all of the masses inside of itself apply equally to every direction So why does it go down? I'll see what force is causing it to go down. Okay Is it still going down now? No, because it's met a place of resistance. I don't you apply the force to it by lifting it You you applied another force of resistance by holding it then you remove the resistant force So physics because a thing of mass is automatically going to want to drop into it is at a place of resistance It is not still dropping is it wrong wrong. Ozzie. It does not automatically want to drop something has to make it want to drop It doesn't drop automatically Ozzie. There's no force inside of a cup that makes it want to drop Ozzie It doesn't work that way mass doesn't want to drop Yes, there is because if you let the rest it would start You apply the force to it and say that when you apply force, there's an equal and opposite reaction and that reaction is dropping No, Ozzie because there's no for further to be an equal and opposite reaction Ozzie if this is an equal and opposite reaction me holding this that means there has to be something going up And something going down. Ozzie. What is the thing going down? Ozzie? What is the thing? Wait Wait, you know, no, Ozzie. Ozzie. It's heavy on its own weight Doesn't cause it to go down because if I put it in a space with no gravity It'll just sit there. So why is it going down? It's the relative It's the relative density if it was a helium balloon. Would it go down? No, because it's not more dense than the air. It would go up Electro-valuatism is a different force There's no point continuing to argue something if you're going to be that thick about it and you can't get it Now time tell me you're gonna No, no, no, so again helium balloons The reason they go up is because there is a more dense thing at the bottom Density can apply force to an object if there's a more dense thing That means there are more molecules that pushes it up and if there's more molecules at the top It'll push it down if there are no molecules density doesn't push anything So if they're in a vacuum And it still goes down that means there has to be a force to cause it to go down If there is no force, there is no movement. So if it moves that means force necessarily. There's no automatic movement That seems it seems like you're okay. Well, and you think that because it moves. It's just automatic There's nothing causing the movement. It's just magic the magic of the object causes it to go down But you said it's magic the helium balloon rises the helium balloon rises because it's less dense than the air So it's displacing The air is displacing the balloon which causes it to go up in the case of the the object that you're dropping It is displacing the air. So the air is going up which creates the Illusion of the thing going down, which happens to go down to the place of resistance So why is there's no such thing as a vacuum anyway? Yes, there is we can vacuum all the time So if we create a vacuum with no particles inside of it and put an object in it It's not displacing anything. There's no relative density. There is zero density And why does it still we can't create a vacuum? We can get close to a vacuum, but there'll always be some amount of density there Good enough if if there's if the molecules literally not touching the top and the bottom that's zero density So zero density object in it it falls Why why does it fall? It's not displacing anything. Why does it fall? It's displacing something. No, it's not something that's vacuuming There's no displacing. It's it's a near vacuum. You will you'll never get a total vacuum. Anyway, I see I don't need a total vacuum I just need enough of a vacuum that it's not displacing anything I create vacuums that the particles are so far away that the object isn't displacing anything So yes, we can create it where there's zero displacement. It's not displacing any particles at all still falls. Why does it still fall? I'll see Because it has mass and mass Resistance mass is not a force because mass doesn't go down masses are just a is not a force Why? Because that's where things of mass go we live in a relative density realm everything of mass Actually goes down. There's a universal downer. They've a false side does it not even in your vacuum because it always goes down You can't say Scientific endeavor is to make the observation first. You have to answer the question Why does it go down just saying it goes down? Yes, obviously it goes down. Why Does it go down? Because there's nothing dense enough No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, you can't you have to have a positive number here So if I say why does uh, why does something going at a speed of seven go at a speed of seven? I can't say because nothing is stopping it. No, you have to say You're going to shame somebody on the opposite side of the ball These things aren't dropping down there. They're dropping up. Why are they dropping up? Because they go into the center of mass, but that's never been observed. It's never been tested And a requirement of your spinning space for belief that has no evidence never been seen We're talking about gravity we don't we don't we don't We can say that we can Why do things with mass go down you can't say they automatically go down That's not an option. You have to say there is something causing it. What is the thing causing it to go down? lack of resistance That's not that's not a positive number osse You can't say if I ask for what is a positive number There is a hole what caused the hole osse You can't say because there's no resistance. You have to have a positive force basic logic if you want to have An effect how it would cause A hole in what what are you talking about? What hole? If there is a thing a positive event that occurs in reality You can't say it occurs because nothing stopped it Something must have caused it because it wasn't always occurring So if it can't be always occurring something must have predated it to cause it to occur So what caused it to occur osse? It can't have been falling forever osse. So why does mass fall? That's right. The newton's law says for every action. There's an equal and opposite reaction So if you don't perform a force in the first place like picking it up Then it won't drop if you pick it up and you leave it somewhere where there's nothing to resist that It drops. It's really really straightforward stuff. You don't need extra In extraneous forces to describe it. It is just the reaction To the initial force that you placed upon it Yes, it's an initial force called gravity. That's why it goes down. You don't get an option there If it goes down, that's a force if it moves. That's a force if there's no movement There's there's no force. So if you're saying it's moving yet, you're admitting there's a force So you lose if you if you think it's falling Throw something out in the air Wrong force wrong force osse if something goes down if anything is falling down at all If anything is ever being pulled down for any reason, that's a force osse you lose Getting terrible reception here. I'm struggling to hear If there is anything going down at all There must be a force to cause it to go down It can't go down without a force osse must have force to cause it to go down No force no movement all movement equals force You don't get to separate the two. You don't get to say it automatically goes down It's not true. It's true the reaction to a force No osse if it if there's no force Are you going to say that the wall crumpling then is gravity because it made a hole in the wall Yes, like how how is that Saying that there's an opposite force to something when I apply a force to something and create a reaction The reaction is directly a result of the force applied So if you pick something up, that's the force applied the reaction is dropping There's no extra force applied to cause it to drop Just as there's no extra force to make the hole in the wall If you put enough force from your fist in the first place, it's as simple as that Whatever force you apply you'll be an equal and opposite reaction I already debunked your nonsense there osse if an object is moving that's a force There has to be a force to cause the movement So if an object is falling for any reason ever there is a force causing the falling Resistance doesn't cause the falling osse No, it's throwing it up in the air in the first place, dude. No It's just a reaction. No, no reaction Long lying a force If you left the line in the first place if you didn't apply a force, it's not going to drop is it wrong osse If I throw an object up. I'm applying a force upwards There has to be something else to cause it to come down a different force another force osse Basic logic if you throw an object all areas apply a force up Then there has to be something to cause it to go down osse Well, why don't you listen then that force is relative density because the object is more dense than the air And so it will move through the air and come back down I already disproved that osse because if we throw it up in a vacuum, you guess what it still comes down If we throw it up in a vacuum, it still comes down No density It is a total lack of resistance more resistance than a lot of resistance is it? Yeah Nothing is pushing it down. There is no relative density to push it down in a vacuum. That's all right That's right pushing it down can't go down without a force It's got its own mass It's more dense than the surrounding medium and nothing That's why it will come down until resisted by something of sufficient density to resist it and it comes to rest No, no, no, no osse if there's no density on the top and there's no density on the bottom It's not going to push it up and it's not going to push it down Basic logic here osse For density to work it has to be more dense on one side and less dense on the other side It can't move anything if it's equally dense on both sides If you have something equally dense on both sides, it will not move. That's how density works You understand Walls The walls are not a gas they don't Walls and floors exist aren't the walls and floors don't A force to an object in them That's what the point of a vacuum is if the walls apply the forces in a vacuum It wouldn't be a vacuum osse. It'd be filled with walls. That's not how it works osse So the the universe without walls being a giant vacuum. How do we have an atmosphere on that? Gravity and electromagnetism the forces that pull things together. Yes. So gravity electromagnetism down it pulls on air Gravity does pull on air. Yes, electromagnetism also pulls on so why is the air? Why is the air up then? Why isn't it all on the ground? Because electromagnetism causes the bigger things to be pulled together harder Well, how come I can use get a straw Stick it in a glass of water put my finger over the top and lift the straw up out of the water And the water doesn't fall back down a tiny little vacuum Closets to the center of gravity can beat gravity a tiny little vacuum force because of the strong electromagnetic force Is this one has to pull all the air up there? That's because of the strong electromagnetic force. It's 40 orders of magnitude stronger than gravity. This is very easy basic stuff osse Strong electromagnetic force of my finger No, it's the strong electromagnetic force of the universe, which also applies to the particles in your finger Okay, so if I get a vacuum hose And I start drawing some water out I can lift it up over the roof of a building and as long as I put the other end Lower than the water source on the other side of the building that water is going to flow all the way up the hose And come out the other side That's another example of a vacuum force being way way stronger than gravity Which has no say in the matter that water will forcefully flow out until it's all lower than the outer end Had to explain gravity you can jump osse like it's easier You can just jump up and down you can use the strong and weak electromagnetic force to Tense in your muscles and then go up above fight gravity So gravity is 40 orders of magnitude weaker than the strong and weak electromagnetic force So obviously you can use those to overcome gravity. That's why rockets work Okay, so we you can admit then that a very tiny vacuum force is multiple times stronger than gravity And yet the orders of any molecules which virtually zero mass Can be miles and miles up in the air and gravity is still going to override The universal force of a vacuum with its really really really weak force as it hurdles Millions of miles now through the vacuum of space No, so dark energy means that the the energy vacuum is actually overcoming gravity It's going pushing things further away than gravity. So the opposite of what you said But yes gravity can still pull things in from long long distances But but an n molecule has virtually zero mass like yeah, it's like probably Point zero zero zero zero one grams of mass if that you know, it's even less So if gravity is a force of attraction and electromagnetic attraction to something that's virtually non-existent Then how the heck can we be hurtling through a vacuum of space and still have an atmosphere? Because vacuums don't apply forces so vacuums wouldn't push anything away like Vacuums apply zero force to anything I don't know if i'm breaking up to you, but you're breaking up a lot to me i'm struggling You know what you're saying here Vacuums don't apply a force so traveling through a vacuum wouldn't cause the air molecules to move away Gravity does apply a force so it causes things to pull together And so the non force of a vacuum would not stop air from being pulled by the actual force of gravity But we've just demonstrated how easily a tiny vacuum force can overcome gravity where gravity is strongest There is now that we're gravity weakest it gets even stronger again than a vacuum Which is massive force as opposed to the tiny little one of the simple siphon hose What what are you there's no vacuum force? What vacuum force are you talking about? There is no vacuum force in a siphon A siphon is a vacuum force You've removed the air from it and so you've got the water molecules flowing through a closed Pipe or hose and you can lift it up as much as eight stories over a building And the water will flow because water's so strongly wanting to seek its level And as long as you don't get any air bubbles in that hose Then gravity has no say in the matter if you take it up too high I think about 18 stories the water will even start to boil because water needs pressure So it's not a vacuum without the pressure the natural pressure right environment Your little gravity is weak. It does nothing and it cannot hold an atmosphere To a ball spinning through a vacuum of space So when you like put your finger on a straw and hold up water the vacuum is doing nothing There is no vacuum force. It is the air around the straw that is pushing the water There is no vacuum force. So if space is a vacuum it applies zero force There's no force that applies at all The thing that does apply a force is the particles the density that you're talking about that applies a force But it stops at the vacuum when there's a vacuum it stops applying a force There is no longer applying a force once you get to the vacuum So it's not a problem that we're in space Covered with particles and the particles hold themselves together and are pulled by gravity because they can only push out Where the edge of the particles are because when when the particles stop and there's a vacuum They can no longer push anything. They're not able to push anymore because they can only push as far as they're touching one another Yeah, I'm sorry. I'm having such poor reception here because you keep breaking up so much It's almost impossible for me to hear you what you're saying here I think I've demonstrated that a vacuum force of a simple siphon Is way way stronger than gravity and that's just a very simple vacuum force It's a very tiny one. So there's no such thing to say that the universal vacuum is Weaker than a hose. That's the most insane thing ever Again, assi there's no such thing as a vacuum force. There is the force of other particles pushing So if you create a vacuum on one side of a straw The vacuum does nothing the vacuum is not a force The other particles are pushing the water from the other side Um, it's not the vacuum does nothing So the vacuum doesn't just pull because of vacuum. That's not how it works That would violate your silly gravity principle. Everything falls if that happened It would literally prove your own theory wrong if that happened So the fact that one particle will push another particle because they're bumping into one another Stops when there's no more particles. There's no more particles. They can't keep pushing It doesn't doesn't work that way That means there's something else if something is pulling and there's nothing else pushing That means it's going to come collect into a gigantic ball called earth Okay, well, we can attribute that pushing force if I'm assuming you finished there. Yeah We can attribute that pushing force simply to the mass of its own existence Because we're not hurtling through a vacuum of space if if we say that Atmospheric gases have some amount of mass then they have some amount of weight, which is what gives us You know air pressure then that works totally perfectly fine on a stationary plane of earth with a direct downward force only And therefore that air pressure could be pushing on the water of the higher side Even to the point where the water itself is only This high on one side, but it's still going to flow all the way over that Eight stories if you want or whatever many stories of building to get to the other side because that's water seeking its own level And it's going to do so because of the vacuum force created in the hose as soon as you get a bubble of air in there You've lost the vacuum force and the water won't be seeking its level Through that massive hose through that amount of height against the force of gravity So it just proves that a vacuum force is indeed way way stronger than gravity And we can have pressure because we're not Contained by a vacuum Like I said, if you've got the helium balloon stuck to the ceiling without the balloon that makes no sense But we've got the whole atmosphere stuck to the ceiling of the sky without a balloon Makes no sense. We can't have it. You can't have a pressurized atmosphere in a vacuum Sorry, you've debunked your own silly position Ozzy. So if a vacuum force is a thing Um, why doesn't the water fall? So like you have a straw and you have like your finger on the straw and there's water in it Why doesn't it fall? Why doesn't the water fall out of the straw when you hold it up? Uh, we might have to do this another day. I'm not even getting anything from you here. Sorry I live in a pretty poor reception area here with internet. So I'm getting a dung. I turned him up all the way. I turned him up all the way Can you hear me all right Kaz I can hear you just fine. I'm i'm gonna use myself and him. Let's see if you say something and then he can hear it now I don't know if he can he's back at the tv yet See see if you can hear you now Ozzy, can you hear cars all right? Can you hear me okay? He's frozen Yeah, he is Frozen as hell ladies and gentlemen just letting you know that uh We are having some technical difficulties at the moment with uh iron horse. So Uh, hopefully he'll be back in a moment Uh, if not, I don't know what we'll do I guess we'll just read the super chats that are for t jump and uh go from there. Um In any event I want to let you know that uh, both of our guests are linked in the description along with uh after show if uh that happens and um I also want to let you know that uh super chats will go to the top of the list and um, please tag me at modern day debates Attack the argument and not the person insults will not be read I don't know what I should do. Maybe I should kick him out and then see if he can come back in Ozzie, can you hear me? God damn We even come back. I'm gonna try kicking him out. Let's even come back in I think he's already been kicked out like yes, maybe but his computer probably just doesn't Recognize it, but I think it should be okay to insult James. Like I think that should be Totally okay since super chats to make fun of James. Oh man Well, I wouldn't do that today not this week. Maybe uh next month That's a good point. Yeah, uh, he's not sending me an email or anything. Let's see, uh, we'll give him a few more minutes I don't know you want to He's not here to defend himself Uh Anything going on for you in the future. Oh, here he is. He's back maybe Are you there iron horse somebody else is here also named iron horse Hey Probably double joined. Yeah t-jump is about to Get double teamed by two flat earth Aussies. So this is gonna be a bloodbath ladies and gentlemen Okay, I don't know. Um, yep. I hear you. I hear something I'm back again. I hear you. Yes. You're back Uh, cool Testing can you hear us now? Yeah, it actually sounded a little bit louder too. It's much better. Okay, cool So so you you were talking about the vacuum power the vacuum energy So let's say you have a straw. It's full of water and you're holding it up with your finger Now if stuff automatically falls like you think it does why doesn't the water fall out of the straw? Because you've created a vacuum force to prevent it, haven't you? That's the power of a vacuum and it's only a tiny little vacuum that gravity has no say in it So the vacuum's on the top right the vacuum is on the top of the straw, right? Well, it's at the top end. Yeah, and what's on the bottom end? They are your water Yes, and the air the air below the water right? Well, yes, okay, so so why is the water not falling through the air? Because gravity doesn't exist. It's a myth. You've got a vacuum force holding it up It doesn't matter if gravity exists. It's something that has to stop it from falling. Why is it not falling? Something has to like hold it up from the bottom vacuum held by your finger As soon as you release that vacuum force it does drop doesn't it so there's no gravity involved There's a vacuum force overriding any possible Hope or thought of any amount of back gravity whatsoever So the vacuum at the top So the vacuum at the top of the straw is touching the water at the bottom of the straw It's what's holding it in because the water itself being a fluid has no air passing through it And so it creates its own vacuum force itself. That's a one of the properties of fluids What that makes absolutely no sense So we have a vacuum at the top and the vacuum touches the water but the water is different It's not a vacuum the water is not a vacuum and then below the water is the air Now the way a classical rational person thinks is that the air on the outside of the straw Is pushing up against the water holding it in the straw the vacuum is doing none of that The vacuum is just there and then the water is pushing up against the vacuum And then the air is holding the water So air is anti-gravity now. It's holding water up Yes Yes, so if there's a vacuum and then water and the air the air is Vacuum seal inside the top of the straw that the water's own weight Cooling against that creates enough of a suction to prevent it falling any further Which is why if you release your finger it falls back out because of the relative density So it just shows that that tiny little vacuum force can override gravity Just in front of your face that you can do it in the bloody cafe or in your kitchen table Or whatever it's something that anybody can prove to show that gravity is non-existent That's not needed to explain the observations of pressure pressure gradients vacuum forces and fluid Dynamics So how does the vacuum at the top of the straw reach down to the bottom of the straw where there isn't a vacuum It doesn't the water creates its own plug It pulls against the top of your finger where it can no longer create The air to allow it to pass out and so that little vacuum force that it creates holds itself in So the vacuum somehow makes the water magnetic so it attracts itself. Is that what you're saying? Oh, yeah, that's exactly what i'm saying I just said you've made a tiny little vacuum force which overrides any concept of gravity Because of water's own density Nothing magnetic water's not magnetic In fact, if anything, it's diamagnetic. In fact, everything is diamagnetic Which would be love to see if you could ever get around to addressing the tides and how gravity can pull trillions of tons of water around for two tides a day I addressed that before it pulls half of it and the First half creates a big hole and the water tries to fill the big hole and that's how I would have a second one It's pretty easy. So if you want to create a wave, okay Yes, that's how waves work Yeah, if you if you create like if a meteor hits the water First it pushes stuff away and then the water tries to fill the hole Yes So gravity's a meteor No If the moon had enough gravity to pull the oceans to one side of the earth It would create a massive low tide on the other side and a massive high tide on the moon side And they'd get one per day for 24 hours only you would not get a second high tide on the rear side because you've got Earth's gravity working with the moon's gravity pulling all the ocean towards the moon side How can you possibly have the moon overriding earth's gravity? When it's a sixth of earth's gravity And creating a secondary high tide on the rear side. It's just physically impossible if you apply just the simplest bit of logic to it There's no way you can use gravity to explain tides At all a diamagnetic force you can because it's a repellent force and it can push water around And then the water rebounding can create a secondary high tide back the other way No, it's pretty simple. So like if you have a Like say a bathtub and you put your hand in the middle of the bathtub and then you push your hand You're going to have a big ball of water here and a big trough of water here, right? Yeah And then the big trough is going to be filled by the water over here. This water's going to like fill the trough, right? Actually, no Fluid dynamics makes the whole wave go and hit this front back end of the bath and then when it flows back It will fill that trough. It's not going to fill that trough with another wave You're going to create one wave with your hand not a second wave to fill the trough The water will rebound off the side of the bathtub So the water behind your hand will just stay there. It won't fill the giant hole you've created The hole's just going to remain there and the water isn't going to fall into the hole until the It will bounce back from the other edge It'll slosh backwards and forwards and that's a tiny example just in a bathtub. We are we're talking about Yeah, let's say we're in the ocean if we're if I'm in the ocean and I put my hand in the ocean and I make a wave You're saying the big hole that I just made will never be filled until the wave hits the other side of the Atlantic and comes back It's no comparison It's no comparison what you're going to do to the water is nothing The water will just instantly feel it's find its own level. It's not going to create another wave to fill that trough It's just going to fill it up No comparison whatsoever in the small environment How does it fill it up? It moves right the water when you create a back like a hole it moves Fluid dynamics means water will always see can find its own level So when water moves, what do we call that? Flowing a wave we call it a wave You could call some of it a wave, but it's not necessarily always a wave So a river is a wave So if I put my hand in water and I push the water there's going to be a wave in the front Where the water has been moved and there's going to be a wave in the back to fill the first wave, right? Not necessarily a wave just water naturally finding its level And there's no way that you can try I'll see if you want to call it water finding its level That's the second time. That's how it works. Congratulations. Tell me then Tell me then how the moon is anything like a hand pushing through water. You're saying that the gravity is pulling Yes, yes, so it's a big thing that pulls the water in one direction like my hand pushes the water in one direction It's a force. Well, that would create the second part right behind it, wouldn't it? That create just one way and another way and you got your two tides in five minutes But you don't have two tides in five minutes. You have them 12 hours 12 and a half hours apart Right. So the size of the wave is determined by the amount of water you move the more water you move The longer it takes for the water to fill the hole, right? Tides don't move in one single wave They gradually rise over a period of six hours and they gradually go down a period of another six hours And then they go back up again over another six hours There's no such thing as a tidal wave creating the tides in one big burst And then having a low tide in between as an Next wave comes in here So imagine imagine the ultimate big sky daddy puts his hand in all of the waters on the earth and just moves all of the waters How long would it take the water to naturally flow to fill in the first half that the god moved the waters? five minutes If that two minutes Assuming your sky daddy that you're talking about Yeah, it's bigger than the moon Yes, so ultimate ultimate sky daddy super god decides to put his hand in the middle of the earth And move half of the water to like one edge And we want to we want to know how fast the water on the other side is going to fill the hole The sky daddy's hand left and you think it's going to cover the entire half of the earth in five minutes Yeah, I think it's going to actually flood the entire world in five minutes It's just I don't know where you come up with these hypothetical things from anyway in the first place Like, you know, let's how about we just leave you a mythical sky daddy's out of it all together and just deal with reality as we observe it And let's talk about what really happens Not not this magical if someone with a big hand comes and moves half the ocean at once You know, if you get a big wave the next wave will be following right behind it And it's usually generally even bigger. You know waves come in sets created by swell Which is created by winds out in the deep ocean So it's got nothing to do with the tides tides a completely different thing of water Sloshing backwards and forwards from as a weak diamagnetic repellent force of the moon Taking 24 hours and 50 minutes to go around us once which will create two tides as it hits the coast on one side Then as the moon passes over it's also pushing it back again Creating that back flow that you're talking about and so when it goes back all the way across the ocean That's where you get your secondary high tide and what time it comes around again We'll start pushing the first one back again. We can okay. Let's talk about reality like in what's actually there What's a tsunami? What is what is a tsunami? Tsunami is generally a wave created by an earthquake underwater and this place Let's say we have a tsunami instead of a giant hand because you want a real thing So a tsunami moves a large portion of the water does the water automatically get refilled in five minutes Oh, it creates a massive flood depending on where it hits Yes, slightly behind behind the tsunami Does it take five minutes for the rest of the world's ocean to fill the giant hole the tsunami has left? No, because the same water goes back and feels back now came from it doesn't the bathtub Right, it takes longer It doesn't work like that You create a giant hole in the ocean because the tsunami pulls the water out of the ocean It takes quite a long time for the water to move and fill that because water Doesn't go at this speed of light like you think it does It actually takes some time because of how physics works for the water to actually spread nothing to do with time So does it? Yes, it's got a physical effect of something happening to displace a large amount of water very quickly And then that water receding is nothing like a tide. So right compare the tsunamis with big thing first It's a comparison first half the first half what you said We have a thing that displaces a large amount of water that's called the moon and gravity So it displaces a large amount of water in one direction and it keeps going it doesn't stop like tsunamis stop And then the water goes back But if it kept going just imagine a tsunami that continued to go and continued to pull the water all the way across There's going to be one wave where the tsunami is where it has a large big ball of water that it's drawn And then it's going to have a big empty space where it brought the water from And then there's going to be a wave behind that that is coming to fill in all of the empty space the tsunami left So if there's this one gigantic tsunami That doesn't stop and it continues to pull water all the way around the world and goes in one clockwise direction around the world There's going to be two waves There's going to be one at the tsunami and there's going to be a second one Billing in the whole the tsunami left now two waves, right? Well, there's a huge problem with that because first of all we've got continents You know about 30 of the earth is covered with continents and that stops the water from flowing in a way Even if it's a tsunami a tsunami might be compared to a extra large tide Momentarily in some places, but it's still going to flow back the way it came That's not going to be filled in by another wave coming because if it kept on going We wouldn't have land masses, you know land masses are measurably above sea level and that's what stops Everything from getting flooded all the time if you were looking at it on your globe Then everywhere is below the curvature of this massive mountain of ocean in the middle of two continents And so that'd be below sea level. That's just simple Observable logics you have to invent you have to bring in gravity to make the impossible possible And that's why the globe is such a ridiculous concept because without it We can explain everything in physics without gravity. We can explain it all we don't need it But without it your globe is dead. It's gone. It's nothing. It's ridiculous It wouldn't even have water in a universe In a universal vacuum. There would be no pressure Because it just boiled you put water into a back Okay, so let's say when when a tsunami forms There's it's going to go to land But so there's there's like there's a America is here tsunamis here and then there are some ships over here What happens to these ships? Do they get pulled in towards the tsunami? If they're in deep water, they just go up and over the tsunami passes straight under it I don't know so so tsunami's going towards america and they're on the other side So they're behind the tsunami. Do they get pulled in towards the tsunami while the tsunami is moving towards america? No, that's not how waves work in deep water So so the tsunami takes a large amount of water and moves it Creating a deficit less water here And the ships right next to them. They just they don't like move It doesn't like pull them because there's more water moving towards the land I don't know if you listen to my um introduction where I mentioned how I've spent years and years surfing And so as a surfer I learned a lot about the way waves work in the ocean That the wave itself doesn't really even exist except there's a ripple in the water It passes from one part of the water to another so it moves But the water remains where it is so if there's a boat sitting there Well, the wave goes under it and keeps on going So only when they reach shallow water that they start to pick up extra water and start to then break Which creates, you know, the waves that surfers are looking for but in the deep ocean That's not how waves work at all. They basically For all intents and purposes don't exist except that they create their ripple But that's the water that it passes through Stays where it was so it's not really moving like the tsunami you say it is It's only when it reaches the shallow water that fluid dynamics then pick up Surrounding water and pick up speed and momentum and then it can create the disaster that it creates Yeah, yeah, so it does that Mellow little rising and falling It picks up the water picks up the water lifts it out of the ocean puts it on the land Then there's a big hole in the ocean. There's no water there. The rest of the water behind it Fill that in so it creates a double wave in every tsunami There are multiple waves that happen. The first one is the initial one with the big wave Then a second one comes which is the water from behind it coming in and then they both go out So when you create a gigantic hole in the ocean when you remove the water the water that was behind it Comes after it to fill the hole. I'll see this isn't this is just basic logic. You can do it in your bathtub I don't know how you don't understand this if you create a gigantic hole in the ocean The water behind it is going to fill that hole and that's called a wave That's the tides. I'll see it's very very simple. No, that's actually not a hole. It's called a trough That's a trough between the waves And the next wave that comes along Doesn't fill the hole at all. It's just waves moving through deep water. That's not the tides at all The tides are very much a coastal phenomenon You wouldn't even notice them at deep sea except where you've got shallow rocks because that's all it really affects In the in the open ocean, there's no such thing as tides Not that mean anything to anybody anyway It's the coastal areas where you have the rise and fall in the shallow waters that has effects over everything so to say that even a tsunami moving through deep water it is not going to Create a second wave from it. It might have extra effects from whatever caused the first tsunami and you might get more waves from it That's completely plausible. Most of these waves do move in sets But they certainly do not create holes and they certainly do not try and fill the hole You've just got a trough between waves and all the waves will move constant distance apart from one another Until reaching the shallow water where they build up the momentum and do all the damage Can you show my can you cast can you show my screen? I have like a picture of how tsunami works Yeah, so Ozzy what are these these are all there's like a hole This is a trough here right the part under under the little dotted line. Those are troughs, right? I guess you could say that but the totally unreal. Yeah, okay That's good enough. Good enough. So what happens to this big ass wave over here if there's a trough Is it going to move to fill the trough ozzy? Because it water wants to reach its level right ozzy So if there's a big trough here and this water's going to the land Does this big wave going to fill that trough? Is it going to move over there? Yeah, that's That's the tides ozzy. You've done it. You've figured out the tides. It's not tides. That's swell Yes, that's what the tides are. That's the second tide. That's the tide on the other side. That's what it's doing No, no swell and tides are completely different things They bear some resemblance to each other in certain local locations, but To say that waves are the tides is ridiculous. You've got no idea what you're talking about We're talking about a six and a quarter hour difference between The first high tide and the second high tide How can a wave coming a minute or 30 seconds afterwards possibly be an explanation for tides? That's ridiculous. Do do do bigger waves move slower ozzy? What's that bigger wave If the wave is bigger does it create a larger wavelength between the next wave? I guess you could say so. Yeah So if you have a really really big wave then you're gonna have a really really big trough And it's going to take a longer time to fill the trough. Isn't it on it? It's not going to take a quarter of a day That's just not how it works If you're trying to say that one wave Is the high tide that's the way it recedes immediately. That's not going to create a low tide immediately for the next six hours If if another way Why are the trough if it's the bigger if the bigger the wave the longer the trough If you get a big enough wave. Yes, you'll get a six hour trough. Congratulations. It's basic physics Yeah, you're insane, mate. If that's what you think you're absolutely insane. You've got no ocean experience whatsoever You've probably never ridden the surfboard in your life. You've got no idea how waves work No idea how tides work. I've spent years of my life decades Observing tides. I've watched a high tide creeping up across dry sand as the moon is far into the east still approaching This is the major high tide of the day because the secondary high tide doesn't wet the dry sand It only comes up a certain amount of Period up the dry sand or that it's already been saturated So when you've got water creeping up the unsaturated sand, that's the major high tide of the day and that's with the moon Hours away. It's not going to be four or five hours until it's overhead By which stage that tide is already receding and on this way well out again so it cannot be the moon pulling it from Hours away to the east When it's obviously repelling it and pushing it forwards in front of it and by time it's overhead. It's nearly low tide So you may have spent years watching the the the waves I have spent years watching flat earthers and debaters who don't understand anything on debates And I can tell and based on your logic I should understand more about flat earthers than anybody because I've spent years Watching them talk. Clearly. That's not the case. You spending years watching waves is like me spending years watching flat earthers It's still a mystery of not at all that because this is a natural phenomenon in nature. This is really Almost extraneous to both either the flat earth or the globe earth argument Except to say it's completely just related to tides alone. That's real world experience You've got a lounge room experience classroom experience book learning experience I've been out in the real world experiencing it in real time Revolving my whole life around how the tides work how the swells work What i'm going to do for the day where the moon is whether I mow the lawn because of the moon phase or do I Do some weeding or whatever I do everything according to moon phases and observation of tides Which I've done for decades and decades of real time real world experience and I can tell you that You know, I used to be a die-in-the-wool yearly. I say trust myself I believed everything about it and yet all my observations of the moon didn't match they don't match the the mainstream belief even watching a Luna eclipse the shadow comes from the completely wrong side an angle It kind of cannot possibly be attributed to the sun being beneath the spinning ball earth Casting a shadow on the moon. It's absolutely absurd. There's everything about heliocentrism that I've seen Is why I'm a flat earther not because I've been sitting watching stuff and debates You know on youtube all the time, but because I've got real world real life experience decades of it Out in reality and so I know what I'm talking about and I know Tides caused by the pool of the moon is impossible Everyone everyone who's older than 24 has decades of experience in reality That's just basic logic and obviously it's a natural phenomenon in nature. Clearly. That's the case Flurfs are also a natural phenomenon. There's nothing supernatural about them. Literally nothing you said makes sense I'm ready to go to the q&a All right, um, are you ready to go to iron horse? Yeah, that's fun. All right. Um, ladies and gentlemen, we do uh have some room for super chat still So if you do have a question for one of tonight's debaters go ahead and send a super chat still, uh, we do have room for that at this time and we uh I'll go ahead and let the timer run down for the Open discussion before I switch to the q&a timer just to let that happen And uh, we'll go ahead and start that now. So our first question comes in from Space is a lie for five dollars They say just because you don't fall off the planet living in australia does not mean earth is flat And that's for you flat earth Aussie. Did you hear me? Uh, well, that's right because when we live on a stationary planet earth We have a universal up and down and you can't fall off anything when all the solar stops beneath you Gotcha. Thank you so much. Oh, yeah, I want to let you know everybody in the chat that uh To hit the like button hit the subscribe button for more debates Our debaters are linked in the description below So if you like what you heard tonight and you want to hear more from either of them Please don't forget to check out their links because uh, they we do appreciate them They are the lifeblood of this channel and again, there will be a after show tonight So if you want to hear more from either of them tonight, I believe they will both be joining us for that In the after show that is also linked in the description and uh with that Let's go ahead and kick it to the next super chat from oflameo for two dollars. They say for both I'm hearing myself probably Aussie his piece his uh thing From oflameo for two dollars for both can curvature cause a force Can curvature cause a force? No Curve curvature is just a shape. It is a result of a force. I don't curvature can't cause a force. I don't think Um, okay, uh iron horses stepped up for a moment. We'll move on uh from mark reed for five dollars asks why down in um Iron horse, did you want to answer that last question can curvature cause a force? Um, I'm having trouble hearing there again, mate. You sound a real staticky to me I'm just trying to think where I might have some head phones, but I can't think Can curvature cause a force? No, I'm just getting No, try try put it in the chat like type it in the chat Yeah Okay, I'll type that and I'll ask the next question while I'm doing that can Yeah, I can copy and paste it actually while I ask the next question. Um Mark read for five dollars why down in You know, I should I'm gonna type that one as well. I'll just copy and paste that to him So he can read that and let me see Oh daddy 29 says I thought australia had better education Can you hear me iron horse? I'm just getting static. Okay. Here's the next question for you. Can you see that? Can you chat can you see the chat in the text chat Aussie? No, I'm only looking at it on the app On on the Then I'll stream your there's a question for you In the app in the app. There should be a uh comments Option like there should be a box that says on the right Why down in particular is just as dense above and to the sides of an object Uh, because even the air above doesn't offer resistance does it it's the same resistance below it So typical can you hear me? Yeah, I can yeah, okay. There's a question from mark read for five dollars Why down in particular iron horse the air is just as dense above as to the sides of an object I think he just down Oh, he did. Yeah, I think he lose literally just answering that question Yeah, I did but I wasn't sure if you did I couldn't make out what you were saying. I'm sorry the craw daddy zero two nine for two dollars I thought australia. No, I'm sorry from joe schwarz 199. What is your favorite video game and why? For both the guidance sigma two because it is extremely difficult and skill-based no grinding Iron horse, do you have a favorite video game? No, no, I got playing video games about 20 years ago. All right from Gotcha. Oh play me over two dollars. What is the definition of force and hoax? Who's that thing that's for you? What is the definition of force? And hoax, I think I could go both ways Force and hoax well force is when you apply energy towards something And hoax is when you believe in something that isn't true Uh, yeah force is something that applies uh energy to something And hoax is a false statement that is positioned is true I don't see it craw daddy retype it and I will grab it Even if you don't you don't have to resend it as a super chat. Just retype it But mine has a question for osi. Do you have a son named mango from jody w? No, my son's name is Not mango all right for 599 from anton gomez says T jump gravity is not a force. It's 100 illusion. I love you, but you are bananas Well, technically it's it's just a curvature of space time, which is not technically defined as a force But it's definitely a real object that exists for sure that's been proven to exist There's novel testable predictions that have been confirmed in a lab through the lego measurements Gotcha. Thank you so much From jacob mackenzie for five dollars says a wise tom heeds the chair's instruction But a mocker does not listen to rebuke recliner five 12 15 12 The church of the chair the bible of the chair book of the chair Gotcha From mr. Monster for five dollars. What good reason would educated scientists have to fake the truth about gravity If gravity is not true, why is it not mainstream? Why is that not mainstream? Sorry Why is it not mainstream that gravity is not true? No for me. Well I think it is pretty well mainstream like that the mainstream Why isn't it the mainstream opinion that gravity is fake? Well, well, they will readily admit that it's not a force and yet They have to think of it as a force that that's a requirement Or belief that they've carried over from hundreds of years ago to make the earth a spinning ball when we've got absolutely no Uh way to detect any of the motions which are incredibly huge motions And so they just need to have it Even though they know that's just the theory that doesn't really make sense and they haven't got a bloody clue what it is Okay, thank you so much. Uh, this is the comment. I believe from craw daddy that we missed iron horse Find a playground get on the merry-go-round and do one spin over the course of 24 hours And tell me how thrilling the ride is Yeah, well, that's a lovely example of people that live in a world of ignorance Because if we're going to make this merry-go-round even close to resembling reality We've got to have it with a radius from the center to the outside horse that you're riding on of 4000 miles And you've also got to have it sitting on the back of a truck for example or something A supersonic jet where this jet is flying through across the ground at about 66600 miles per hour now I can assure you even without being on the back of a truck if it's just moving once per day at the end of a 4000 mile radius you are going 1.35 times the speed of sound and you'd better. Hope you're wearing your superman cape and a good hard hat Angular velocity is the same no matter what distance you're going at so it doesn't change if you're like A foot away from the center or a thousand miles away from the center of the angular Okay, we'll put a clock in the middle of a paddock And take the clock face off it and put a length of wire across to the hour hand and start extending that wire out Just for one kilometer and see how fast you have to run to keep up with the clock It's a ridiculous example to say that Revolutions per minute are anything to do with angular velocity if the air is moving with you You don't have to move at all everything will be moving with you So you won't have to do anything but you got to move with the hour hand, you know We're talking 4 000 miles long. Can you even grasp the concept of something 4 000 miles long if you haven't got something When it comes to If the ground and air are moving with you, you could just hold the hand and it will you won't have to move at all It'll you will feel nothing. You'll just stand there I'm sorry for my personal For my own personal modification. I guess I missed it. What's 4 000 miles long? Clock hand so he's saying if there's a clock in that's 4 000 mile long hand and you're at the edge of the hand And you're trying to like hold on to it While it's moving, but why does it have to be 4 000 miles? It's just he's trying to make an analogy that if there's a clock hand And it's moving and it's 4 000 miles long if you're trying to hold on to it It would move very very fast and you'd get blown away by the wind So like if you're standing on the edge of a very long clock hand And it's moving the edge is moving just like the center is moving How would you be able to stand on it? Okay, I was just trying to understand. Thank you so much Is that okay? Thank you. All right, uh, let's move on from john h for five dollars If earth was a globe and we observed 12 noon facing the sun six months later We would be facing the other way. Please explain Oh, I think he's frozen crap. Hold on. Oh, we got another one. Here we go. You there Yeah, I hit the back button and close the window. I thought that would happen if I Try to get anything on the phone. I can't lose it All right, john h for five dollars says if the earth was a globe we and we observed 12 noon facing the sun Six months later. We would be facing the other way. Please explain Yeah, that's 100 truth. I think that's actually a question for t-jump to try and explain that one I would explain it by if you had a big wall and you had 365 clocks Forget the quarter for the moment We'll just put 365 of them in a big circle on the wall and right in the middle you put a big Blinding light that created that was mimicking the sun so everywhere where it's hitting each individual clock That is the representation of that particular day of the year's daytime Because the clock is always going to have the 12 at the top So that's their daylight out So if you got 12 o'clock at the very top clock and 12 o'clock at the very bottom clock And that one's going to be facing the sun at midday But this one's going to be facing it at midnight and say yes day and night would indeed swap places if We were actually on the spinning ball going around the sun But because on the flat earth the sun goes around above us It takes exactly 24 hours per single rotation to go around above us And that's why it's always overhead at midday More or less in your local time zone of which there's about 24 time zones around the planar earth Yeah, yeah, so day and night are based off of the earth's rotation around itself Its own axis not based off of its axis around the sun So in six months the earth will be on the opposite side of the sun But luckily we designed day and night times to be based off of whether not the the sun is the earth is facing the sun Not about its position where it is located Uh around the sun so so it's the day and night cycle is a separate cycle from the the calendar year Those are two separate separate cycles It's a cool story there t jump, but the fact is we measure a day with a fixed amount of time It doesn't matter what we call it if you want to call it 23 hours and 56 minutes and four seconds This ideal day of what the we observe the stars going around above us You can call it that you can call it 24 hours as we do whatever the fact is We use a fixed mechanical clock to measure exactly 24 hours every single day Which means that the clock itself from the example I used if you made a big circle around the sun The clock is always going to be in the same position As it goes in a big circle around the sun so day and night would indeed swap place No, no, no that You it would depend on the time like if we made it 30 hours days then yes Yes, it would if in if the days were 30 hours long then you're right It would change position As time went on it's irrelevant It's irrelevant as long as the amount of time is fixed. It doesn't matter what amount you give it Whatever value is irrelevant. It's fixed. It's the same every day That's the that's the issue that the globes can't get they just say oh, it's 23 23 hours 56 minutes and a little bit and that way it keeps the sun We don't have to adjust our clocks, but we don't adjust our clocks The clock is the fixed amount of time regardless of what you call it So like if if we have a ball and we're moving the ball around a light bulb If the faster we move the ball The slower the ball has to be spinning for a day So like imagine if the ball wasn't spinning at all. It was just like fixed we moved around Then one rotation around the sun would eat would also be one day So like the if the ball did not in any way rotate It was just going around the sun in a fixed position Then the one year and the one day time would be exactly the same But if we're changing those times Then we can have a day time That is a certain number of days per year You can count those and then we have two different measurements now So we can make them separate numbers Yes, and we've got 365 0.25 rotations of the ball to create one year Yeah But each one of those rotations is exactly one rotation of exactly 24 hours No, that's why we have leap years No, we have leap years because of the quarter of day And because it takes that extra quarter for the stars to align and we'd like to keep our The sun is a star bro bro, bro Oh, well, you can think of it like a star, but it's no star It's literally a star. Shall we move on gentlemen? Sure. Okay from neon soul for five Um pounds or euros for uh iron horse Why things fall in a vacuum instead of floating by your logic the resistance should be the same from all sides That's totally illogical There's no resistance in a vacuum. Is there a amount of resistance? if you made of a non-vacuum and you made I don't know everything the same density as the vacuum Like like a molecule of gas will not float in a vacuum because it's not a vacuum anymore the minute you've put a molecule of gas in there so That's a ridiculous thing to think that non resistance Is going to create buoyancy you need density to create buoyancy not lack of density It gives nothing If there's a vacuum on all four sides all four sides have equal resistance, right? Zero and zero and zero zero zero zero. They're all the same. They're all zero Right, right. So if you have a vacuum all the sides have equal equal density zero Equal density on everywhere. Well, well in that case you'd have to be assuming a universal sized vacuum With nothing else in it and in which case you wouldn't know you're moving even if you were so that that works Yeah, you are floating because I was the question the question laws and laws and it's a chamber There is a dam How how does the chamber add a force in a vacuum? Because it's the place of resistance And so the thing hits the place of resistance and it goes no further because it has more mass than nothing Okay, uh from k tickari sent to a dollar super chat with no question attached So thank you so much for that We really appreciate it. Um, if you have another question that you wanted to attach that but you missed it Then just go ahead and send that in. Uh, we are out of super chats right now So if you have a super chat that you want to send in ladies and gentlemen, go ahead and send that and it will be read immediately Following the completion of the next question that we read I got a super chat on my end. Uh, if the earth is flat, why are other planets spheres? That creates two assumptions in the first place one that planets even exist And two that earth is even a planet We're not in outer space with the whole flat earth concept Is that we are the only physical plane in existence at the bottom of the known universe And the lights in the sky are not terra firma. And if they were terra firma, then they would drop to earth Gotcha. All right, uh from david h is reality a hoax More than likely I wouldn't be surprised what Well, everything is interpretation through signals that receive through our senses And so basically all of reality exists within the mind of the the observer So technically without an observer reality doesn't even exist. So At the moment there's currently about 8 billion different versions of the human universe at this stage And probably trillions and trillions of other versions of the universe from the perspective of other living conscious organisms, but technically everything is within Gotcha from extra j at iron horse. Why don't meteorites fall back up? Yes, we've never seen a meteorite fall up and to be honest, I'm Bit dubious about whether they even come from outer space like I haven't seen any evidence for them most of the times if we do find shrapnel or something from something that's usually don't we can explain from earth based um material and Obviously On a physical plane or earth at the bottom of the known universe There is only one universal down and anything of mass is going to go that direction We never actually see meteorites going up from the horizon, for example, assuming they exist What about the gigantic holes that we see? Gigantic holes well From meteorites explained by a number of other things A giant open-cut mine for example back in the day when we still had All this lost technology of things that we can no longer build today We see all sorts of examples of things that exist now. We've got no answer for especially ancient buildings and whatnot Even the pyramids Gotcha from victor hallock for five dollars for iron horse. What is the difference between density and gravity? Well, gravity is a pseudo force Saying that the attraction of mass Comes from things of density Whereas we just say things of density are what creates matter And matter and combined with volume gives something weight and weight relative to its environment Determines whether it goes up or down. So density and buoyancy is just Pure simple physics gravity is a pseudo belief that says things of mass attract one another Regardless of direction Gotcha from paul anchor All t-jump has done is assume a force. He has not explained why it exists Okay, it's the curvature of spacetime manifold It is the fact that objects in space uh bend space and cause things to fall towards them. That's why it exists Gotcha from darryl frost says sorry t-jump tides are not water movement and waves do not transport water The water stays still but the wave moves Uh Literally waves are water movements. Yes, they they they do move There's a thing It's why they go on land the water if the water didn't move they couldn't end up on land Gotcha from mark reed says. Oh, so what causes the waves? Does he that's iron horse think that some divine being is doing it? Uh, well, I guess in a way if you Since heliocentrism heliocentrism is all based on sun worship Then obviously the sun is god in the heliocentric belief and so technically that is a divine being And it is the force from the heat and motion of the sun moving around It's what's every 24 hours it creates the weather and that's the weather that creates the waves and the swell So in a sense, I guess you could say it's a great divine being doing it Gotcha, kevin says, um, he I don't have any money, but what shampoo does iron horse use for his beard? Oh, well yeah I'm here squeeze it out every morning Raj that uh from say Montreal says please ask tjomp which Yeah, which gravity was he referring to newtonian or einsteinian and if he knows Both are wrong Uh, general special relativity was einsteinian gravity. It's not wrong It's not complete, but it's not wrong. It's Just not complete Roger that from east uh from mantel Says a question. Why are we taller when we wake up and shorter when we go to bed at night? Is it gravity? I think that's for you iron horse. Do you want to get first tato? what Sure Because our body gets compressed I guess from standing weight Yeah, I'd probably just say it's a compression of you know our muscles and joints that Wears down over the period of a day because our body itself does have mass And it presses down on itself and we also got the atmosphere above us. So when we relax and spread out um, that gives a chance for everything to Go back to its natural state again without all that pressure down on us I doubt you barely measure it Gotcha from absolute zero if gravity isn't true then what force makes massive objects attracted to one another Well, that's a perfect nothing There's there's no evidence of large objects being attracted to one another. It's Yeah, you've got magnetism. You've got Static electricity. You've got electromagnetism those things will attract things to one another but by virtue of mass alone You do not have any form of natural attraction It's absolute perfect Sorry, I'm trying to shoe my cat go All right, I got a question or for him while you're shoeing your cat When will you be publishing your findings for peer review? Have you spoken to astrophysicists about your hypothesis? I'm still working on it. You know, I'm still any young I figured I'll wait till about 70 maybe 80 So that they can You know publish it posthumously like they do for all the famous physicists, you know, I just I don't want to rush into this thing Okay, um from tinkle tink wants to know what flavor of beep I have and that is strawberry blast So I just have to have that right here From mango tea they want to they say for 7.99 Uh t jump when are we going to debate on modern day debate? Set it up with james. I have no idea who you are, but do sure do it also pay me Rather that from mark reed. What determines weight? Did he that's you iron horse say that buoyancy creates weight? The higher I said the mass the density of the mass Times the amount of volume that it has So you can have something very small, but it can be very dense So it will weigh quite a lot more than something that's very large that isn't very dense And it won't have nearly as much weight. So it's the overall density per volume that determines weight No invisible pulling forces required density determines weight density is basically Well, the density of the medium is what determines the resistance. So for example You might be able to weigh yourself in the medium of air and be a certain weight But if you put that same scale into water then that density of medium is going to make you appear to be a lot lighter But you yourself are still at the same mass the same density Same volume. You're still the same weight The ability to weigh something doesn't necessarily determine what its true weight actually is What is lightweight? What is lightweight? Yeah Or what does lightweight? Yes I would say it doesn't weigh anything. That's why it's called light So why doesn't it go up because if if relative density is a thing then light weighs nothing then all light should go up, right? No, no, it's just there. It's it's not a a thing of mass It's an electro vibration of the atmosphere of causing photons to glow of the molecules of particular gases and stuff It's a whole other subject that we could enter into another day if you'd like to sub discuss that one next Why doesn't light go up? Okay, and then from mark reed. Oh, no, I said just for that one from travis statham Says to iron horse if the bible said the earth was a planet and gravity was real Would you then believe it? Not necessarily I I'd treat the bible like any other Historical book and see what relevance it has to the observations that we can make today If the observations they made 2000 years ago match what we can make today, then I'll say yeah, that's quite relevant But if it says something that I can turn around and prove with many many examples, especially because we have modern Photography and digital cameras and things we can stand up very high these days I'll turn around and say well no the bible is probably wrong because I don't treat the bible as anything Special that compared to any other historical book It can have relevance in many cases It could be useful for many people and might have good philosophy in it But when it comes to physical sciences, I think I'll turn around and do what we can do today with today's technology Gotcha Roger that from mango tea for 7.99. He's they say Gravity exists. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to sleep with your wife and have babies without gravity existing You are entirely incorrect So people in the space station can't make babies That is impossible because their blood flow stops them from being able to get erect. You can't Have sex in space. Unfortunately Really? But that isn't earth in space It's close enough to a very large gravitational force that allows our bodies to function called the earth So we can get it up despite gravity cool Because of gravity thanks to gravity only because of gravity All right from david acid d punch drunk For five Euros I think or maybe pounds If iron horse can spend the rest of the stream with one leg held up showing no movement downwards I will believe gravity doesn't exist What's it worth to you? That's gonna be happening because we know that muscular strength No takers david just just turn your camera upside down point at your leg. There you go. Probably the bigger super chat next time All right from neon soul for five Says let's try again. If we hold a glass with water in it. Why isn't the water going up? The air on top is less dense than the glass below and to the sides Exactly the air is less dense. So there's something more dense passes through this places The less dense thing until finding a place of resistance Which is the glass because it's more dense than the water if the water was more dense than the glass or to pass through the glass but Glasses are pretty strong. So that's when it comes to solids my solids are dense enough to resist something else's density But she hit it with a lot of force like a fire hose Right right to that from victor hallick for five dollars says iron horse What leading flat earth thinkers do you recommend following and or books to read? What leading flat earth what? Uh flat earth thinkers Thinkers follow or what books should we read? I think you should think for yourself. Um look into as much as you can find You know, I personally like having globe busters 24 7 on in the background. They are because I always Are promoting a lot of variety of different youtube users So you will see a great deal of people that you wouldn't otherwise be able to find So definitely recommend them And Personally, I haven't read any good flat earth books. I'm sure there's plenty of them. But yes, I don't have a reading list That makes me think of a juicy question. Is there any flat earth? Thinkers that you would definitely not recommend we listen to I think everyone has some sort of relevance You know, I'm not saying that they're all 100 correct all the time. We're we're all still on a bit of a learning curve ourselves So, um, you know, there's one that you would definitely dissuade us from listening to There's no flat earth arguments that you've heard that you've say definitely not Well, no, because I think even a broken clock can be right twice a day So even the ones that are quite often wrong just they've still got enough relevance to add that if you've got enough discernment for yourself Then that's what you need to rely upon don't rely upon anybody But yourself to discern everything you possibly can for yourself Roger that extra juicy from john h for five dollars t jump at what size do all observable flat bodies of water start to curve I don't know Eight inches per mile squared It's supposed to be neutral Eureka a curie for our moon landings real or fake Moon landing is real The question is moon landings real or fake Real we can we see the pieces that are still there. We can like bounce lasers off of them It was a really good hoax that they've done in the studio, but anybody that believes that we've actually been to the moon No, they might be Or maybe not the first time actually from mark reed. How do you explain the cavendish experiment showing mass attracting? Oh, the banana experiment Yes, well that's torsion bar suspended in the air and nothing can ever be left completely at rest and so eventually those balls are going to come to rest somewhere Against something and because you put other big balls in the way That's where they're going to come to rest that you've also got the other factor Of static electricity because you're using balls and so you've also got air Rotating around the wall time sets eventually going to build up some amount of static electricity that's going to pull them towards one another potentially and The last one of all that completely disproves the banana experiment is that Earth's gravity is so much more massive than the large ball Outside of either side of the torsion bar. That's just a matter of luck That it could overcome earth's gravity if gravity was actually a thing It's just going to come to rest somewhere eventually and it proves nothing And it's often failed by most people that try and perform the experiment anyway Roger that from mark twain What's me to show my cat? I think but my cats are put away right now I think I I'll try to pull them out for the aftershow, but they're put away right now So sorry from travis statham says to iron horse. So you're saying you're actually an atheist No, I would never call myself an atheist I definitely believe in higher beings of all sorts. So I wouldn't say that there's just a Special god that you know that obviously has to be an initial source of everything But I think our ability to comprehend what that could possibly be is beyond our ability to even try to think about but Definitely not an atheist. I believe in Higher powers all around us and many of which we would probably call if we had met one We'd probably think of that as god, but um, it's probably just a messenger an angel or something Gotcha Well, that brings us to the end of our super chats and all of our questions Let me double check to make sure nobody else anything else The last couple seconds looks like no, okay Well, that will wrap us up for tonight ladies and gentlemen I want to say thank you to all the moderators in the chat for keeping the uh discourse elevated Thank you to james for creating this platform. Thank you to everybody in the audience for watching And everybody who sent super chats and questions. Thank you to everybody else Thank you to the debaters you guys are the lifeblood of the show. Thank you for uh participating and keeping the discussion lively So once again to everybody like the video if you liked it Share it if you want to spread it and subscribe we have many more debates coming your way Our speakers are linked below check them out. Do it now check out the after show in a little bit about 10 15 minutes or so Uh, thank you everyone. Have a great night and remember to keep sifting out the reasonable from the unreasonable You guys all have a great night Goodbye