 Hello, everyone and welcome to the possibilities of the metaverse together We're going to go on a journey as pioneers on a new frontier in its second act I'm Nicole Bishop an uplink top innovator with the world economic forum and the founder and CEO of Cortolio an AI power Platform that uncovers then transforms metadata in Scientific documents and to answers that bring moon shots within reach of innovators around the world today We're joined by a panel of innovators imagining and building this new frontier I'm sure you're curious. What is the metaverse here to answer that question I'd like to welcome Peggy Johnson CEO of Magic Leap a company at the forefront of its possibilities Welcome Peggy. Thank you. Thanks very much I've been given the daunting task of describing what the metaverse is It's that's not an easy thing to do actually. I'm the CEO of an augmented reality headset company and I'm often asked what what is the metaverse and Essentially the metaverse is a blending of your physical and your digital worlds Basically, it's a little frustrating as an augmented reality company That oftentimes the current dialogue around the metaverse is centered in virtual reality So virtual reality is where you might put on a headset and you enter another world and there's great opportunity for virtual reality There's entertainment. There's training. There's things like that But there's also augmented reality where you still see your physical world and you augment it with digital Content in front of your eyes and both are the metaverse, which is why it becomes a little bit confusing And the way I think of it is this if you think about the digital infrastructure of the internet That's the area that houses all of your data and the services and the applications that you use and you enter the digital Internet through a physical device whether it's your mobile phone or the PC The metaverse now will be will actually expand upon that and it will be Emerging of your digital and your physical worlds sometimes you'll be fully virtual sometimes like in this application here it's a factory the physical part of this factory is in gray and The digital part is in purple and they're blended together and that creates a whole new experience Now it's also important to note that the metaverse is not a singular Destination, I think sometimes we come to see that from the media that it's only one place That would be like saying the internet is only one web page but what it's going to be is an interconnected web of Networks much like the digital Interfair the digital internet is but it'll be expanded and it'll create new Experiences for all of us The metaverse is going to be the technological foundation of which we will build the future It's where I think we'll actually see what's known as web 3.0 really come to life and are when you buy digital assets you'll be able to take them in and out of the metaverse actually and At least the way I see it right now We are early days in the metaverse but I grew up in the mobile phone industry and I think much like the mobile phone industry much of where The metaverse begins will likely be in business and we see this already today in businesses that are used to wearing headworn devices so doctors who go into surgery might wear magnifiers or lights and First responders or soldiers might wear helmets and then in manufacturing you might have safety glasses those seem to be the industries that are adopting this idea of Digitally overlaying your physical world initially and they're they're the ones who are actually seeing value today But most importantly as at the dawn of this new infrastructure We absolutely must ensure that it remains open and it's fair and accessible for all players developers businesses consumers alike and and Companies so that it's not you know dominated by one one area of our existing digital infrastructure And then obviously like with any new technology we need to ensure that our data our personal data is kept private secure and Most critically that is your data and that you have the ability to access your data anywhere And I think the opportunity with the metaverse is we've learned quite a bit from What's happened with web 1.0 and web 2.0? We know what the pitfalls are so we have the opportunity to really form This new metaverse in the right way from the beginning and with that I think we'll come back to the panel just something to keep in mind the metaverse is already here It's useful in some ways, but it's early and so it's exciting to have you here as we start on this journey. Thank you Thank you so much Peggy Now I'd like to introduce the rest of this amazing panel first we have Hoda Al Kazami Who's currently a research assistant professor at NYU Abu Dhabi. She has expertise in cryptology Crypto analysis and constructing trusted security Architectures for different environments across a range of products and industries including digital safety in the metaverse Thank you for joining us Hoda Next we have Phillip Rosedale founder and CEO of High Fidelity However in 1996 he founded Linden Labs and created second life a metaverse that allows people to create Advertars of themselves and lead a second life in the virtual world. Thank you for joining us Phillip Next we have Peggy. We have the fortune to meet and we'll be hearing more from her shortly We also have Pascal Kaufman who's a neuroscientist turn entrepreneur that has been named one of the leading voices in new understanding of Intelligence by US Business Journal Inc. He founded the company StarMind for self-learning knowledge networks Pascal also launched the Mindfire Group to decipher the principles of intelligence and to make that knowledge available to cutting edge research In addition to an expertise in artificial intelligence Pascal Pascal has expertise in virtual reality Modern philosophy and innovation management. Thank you so much for joining us And last but certainly not least we have Ed Lewin who is the vice president government in public affairs at the Lego Group There he's responsible for Lego Group's work with governments and other societal stakeholders to drive the Lego brand purpose Which is to inspire and develop the builders of tomorrow. He is passionate about children's rights and well-being offline and online and the role of play in developing critical skills in children and adults Ed is also a trustee of the UK's Holocaust Educational Trust a board member of medical advocacy and research charity beyond Celiac and a governor at his local primary school. Thank you all for joining us today and The audience and I thank you and welcome you As the many people spend more time building Excuse me blending offline and online transactions the metaverse promises to be the virtual meeting space of tomorrow Where communities can work play relax transact and socialize how will this digital space transform our lives? First though we need to understand. How do we build the metaverse or build upon? What is existing today? So Ed you're part of a community that supports a community of builders a company Excuse me that supports a community of builders as well as children and young adults who will grow up with the metaverse Can you share your perspective on what's to come as you think about the building blocks of the metaverse? Well, thank you Nicole and thank you to the World Economic Forum for having me here today and In terms of what of in terms of what the metaverse looks like I think that's a really hard question to answer at this point because as Peggy says we're right at the outset and It's exciting because we're on the edge of a wave of technological innovation Technological innovation driven by human ingenuity It relies on imagination and when we rely on our imagination we tap into our inner child and children have the most incredible imagination Unencumbered by a lot of the the bias the baggage the experiences that we all pick up in our lives and so the future of the metaverse is Going to be inspired is going to be role-modeled by our inner child And at the Lego group we find that really inspiring because it's exactly how we work. It's how we create. It's how we play It's how we innovate so while I don't know what the future of the metaverse looks like one thing I am really focused on is That it includes and incorporates very deliberately the perspectives of Children as a vulnerable group in our society and if we don't do that Then some of the mistakes of the past some of the mistakes of internet 2.0 Where internet platforms that haven't been designed with children in mind may be repeated One in three of our internet users are children and young adults one in three That feels like a big enough group to design for and Yet too often at the moment when children go online they're confronted by unsafe Experiences or content that is inappropriate for them so I'd like to ensure that we have a metaverse That is designed with children in mind when I take my first tentative steps into the metaverse I I can bet that my four young children are probably going to be metaverse natives and I'd like to ensure That for them that for all the children in all our lives But the metaverse is one that is safe that upholds their rights and that is positive for their well-being Thank you so much Ed So Philip you have a bit of experience at this What does it take to build the metaverse build upon what's what's already existing? What are the building? Thanks Well second life Was is almost 20 years old now? And so the technology of the time was quite different But it did contain the essential building blocks that we needed to do what we wanted to do which was we wanted to create a Place where people came together in many cases people who hadn't met each other before and built things together And so we built Building blocks not not unlike Legos, but imagine Legos that you can also twist into wonderful little shapes and paint on and We allowed people to create avatars that represented themselves In any way they wanted to with the presumption especially at the outset that they wouldn't want to be themselves necessarily and so Privacy and identity in the way that we allowed you to say who you were was from the very start something that was quite meta You know it was it was very outside the idea of you know The traditional experience we also had to build an economy which looks a lot like the crypto currency Economies in some ways that we have today We had to build a digital currency so that people that were in two different countries that were using second life Could if they wanted to buy and sell things from each other and today that economy is $650 million a year of with about a million people using it to buy and sell things from each other So we've been able to learn a lot in this can't believe it almost 20 years I was I was here. I think in 2008 talking in an open forum about the about the same thing It's it's crazy, but yeah, we learned a lot. We had to build these basic tools that would enable people to come together I think the thing that was unique about second life. Maybe as a part of the metaverse as Peggy said Was that it was and is primarily designed to enable people to be creative and to kind of use that as a tool for coming together whether for Just getting to know each other or for working together or for improving their lives or learning something and that that How we make that work has really been our focus so much and Pascale, you know, we talked a bit about imagination and You know, could you share with us what you imagine the role of AI and data will be in the metaverse Thanks Lord for this question and Nicole I think the ultimate metaverse is actually our brain My brain is a perfect virtual reality generating a machine I see things I can charge things and in my brain everything kind is constituted So we can definitely learn from the principles of the brain how to actually build a metaverse that feels very much Intuitively our discussion with Philip. I asked him will we spend more time in the in the future in the metaverse in the in the Physical world and Philip told me I'm not so sure it still feels artificial I would prefer like my human body if he could Create technologies that make the metaverse feel as if I was in my real body Then I think that would be the ultimate metaverse that we try to achieve and There's a lot of hype about the topic of artificial intelligence We have pets ongoing. Is it another hype this metaverse topic or will that be the future? I'm not so sure about how much it is hyped these days I'm often a little bit underwhelmed when I see the devices that there are I haven't yet tried the latest Magical eep device of course and but definitely I think artificial intelligence will revolutionize the metaverse and Gives us the key to actually build a kind of a new world that might be a better world than our physical world to these days Thank you so much And you know one of the things that we share Pascal is the the thought around Many minds creating that one mind that you're speaking about and so the importance of having many minds contribute To the metaverse is something I'd like to ask you about Hoda as well as the technologies to not only build the metaverse But to be both diverse and inclusive. Can you share with us your thoughts about that? I Think it's very important for us that to recognize that there is not one metaverse And the way we build this technology today would govern how we are going to go forward and The metaverse is here to disrupt the way we build technology number one It shouldn't be a call of computer scientist or technology developers to develop this technology but we should create room for Social scientists Psychologists the people who are using this technology to co-develop the technology with the developers Give them a voice Because it's very important for them to add that level of details and be in control of their own digital Experience and digital existence. Would that mean that we have to also create a pathway where they are crowd Developing the metaverse with the technology developers. Yes, we need to do that from the get-go Why because the metaverse as it is right now. It's based on decentralized Luckily on decentralized systems and these decentralized systems are built to make sure that there is a bit of control that exists in The hands of the users control over their own privacy control over their own economy or economic Existence and control over their own for example. I mean there was a mention to the digital Coin that you could create so you can create your own money and you can value your own money and you can sell and trade that piece of Value to you within the metaverse this means that we need to disrupt Every way that we are used using to build this technology Starting with the crypto that we're building for using this technology starting as well with the security parameters starting with the approach of development and Be open to do that Because it gives voices to everybody within this community allowing children to create their own metaverse Their own content. So they are safe and secure within it And not an allowing also different classes of users to be existing So, you know now that we've talked a bit about the building blocks being inclusive in this space and the communities that will engage in this Space let's Imagine on this frontier. What a day in the life looks like in the metaverse Peggy, I'd love to hear from you about what the day in the life of an organization or a company might look like What might they get done in the metaverse? So actually I'd like to go to turn to the healthcare industry because I we're seeing that right now It's very tangible right now So our device is augmented reality you put it on your eyes You see your physical world and we can put digital content in front so right now there's a Munich-based company called brain lab and they were creating digital images of your brain But you were viewing them on on what they had at hand, which is a PC And so it was while it was a digital image of the brain You could you know it would spin around on the on the PC it was still flat on the PC and When Magic Leap Launched our first device they Incorporated that software onto Magic Leap and now doctors would put the device on and they would see the Digital digitized brain in front of them and they could spin it around and they're using it as a training tool They're using it to teach new you know young medical students about the brain. They're using it themselves To map the surgical pathways. They'll take during brain surgery certain neurosurgeons are using this ahead of operations Our next-gen device Which is coming out next quarter is going to be certified to take into the operating room Which means the surgeon can look at the patient's actual brain during surgery and see digital content Overlaid it'll make for a more accurate incision line. They can put a whole variety of screens in front of their eyes That will allow them to without moving their head over to wherever the screen is in the operating room It'll be in a more comfortable position that that they can see the patient's vitals So this is the type of thing that's happening already and obviously that'll expand into many other Enterprises and then into consumer as well. Thank you so much Peggy for sharing those really amazing Possibilities so Ed, you know tomorrow's doctors and scientists and researchers will likely You know learn to perform surgery and a lot of different points of education in the metaverse You recently with Lego announced a partnership with Epic Games about shaping the future of the metaverse for children Can you tell us a bit about that? What is the day in the life of a child in the metaverse? Well, I think it's fun And I think it's hugely exciting and you think about the different applications that you could have around the metaverse I mean first of all in the education setting in the classroom Yeah, you think about how learning about Volcanoes could be a completely different experience from reading about it to suddenly being Transported over a crater as it's erupting and diving down into the volcano to see what's really going on or from learning historical dates to being Actually at a recreation of an event so the possibilities are endless and and I think Very exciting and a great way to inspire and develop our children. You mentioned our partnership with Epic Games We're really excited about that. We are at the early days of it But we're looking forward to creating a space Where kids can be empowered with the tools to create to build To explore to socialize and to have fun in the metaverse and All that is going to be coupled with some very key principles that we've agreed with Epic Which are integral to the product firstly to safeguard the safety and well-being of kids and Families that enter this metaverse to empower them With their privacy rights and as well to ensure that they have the choices around data and other aspects of the metaverse that make the Experience a really positive one. So we're very excited about it. There's going to be more to come Later in the year or next year as we as we develop the product. Thank you so much Certainly, there'll be secondhand impact of children growing up in the metaverse thinking in new ways and innovating in new ways Pascal, can you tell me what you see as the day in the life of an innovator? possibly these new innovators in the metaverse Well, I'm very much looking forward to metaverse where science is actually conducted in I think the way we do science these days is rather Antique I have to read like scientific papers until I'm like 64 years old Until I and then I know like 0.1 percent about brain research if I'm lucky And then I would have one year where I can contribute something new to science So and then every child has to learn like to start from new So in the metaverse, I would imagine to have like a perfect Scientific assistant like the captain future series for those who know him like a flying brain with me And I don't need to do to find solutions because the machines are doing that for me But I need to ask the right questions So I think human beings should be there to ask questions But the machines are way better suited to actually get this information Maybe also the artificial creativity form new hypotheses. So I think science will be completely revolutionized in the metaverse and Also, and when I was at the gymnasium here in Switzerland when I studied ancient Greek and Latin I had to learn which Roman killed which other Roman back in the days But like in the metaverse, I mean we keep a knowledge is trivial So the education also content will be completely different in the metaverse environment I'm very much looking forward that science get revolutionized through the metaverse Thank you so much. We talked about Peggy talked a bit about health care. You talked about science And leaned on to Further around education So Hoda, what do you see as a day in life for act for for academics? What is what are the possibilities about learning in different disciplines in the metaverse? I think the merit of accumulating knowledge in this world is to have an impact and to have an impact and progressing the world towards Really positive frontiers Having that type of science Accessible that type of knowledge and development accessible to children and different age groups I don't mean only children but people who could use the science for impact is the I Would say is is the goldmine that we should focus on in the educational platforms of the metaverse because if you if you Groove people around purpose around creating value around around solving a problem that would get the world to a better place Then this is what we need to focus on. It's great to use it as a learning material But also how can we use it as a collaborative a place where we are solving a problem? we're a child in Africa for example is building a solution to For a solution of to build a new ways of Building energy for example in Asia for a town in Asia So I mean this kind of interconnectivity of resources and knowledge is what we need to capitalize on to create impact Thank you so much. So that increased connectivity You know Philip, can you tell us what you've seen in second life in regards to exactly that how have communities You know, what's the day in life of the community? What what have you seen in second life? Yeah, yeah, I mean, I mean, let me give you a little quick journey very visual and specific in the second life So right now in second life there are about 50,000 people that are logged in so it would be a bit like the population of a Medium-sized city in terms of the community who is sort of on the street in the place And and the average age we talked about kids well Well, well, there's a tremendous amount of metaverse like usage right now in games games like Minecraft Fortnite and Roblox those are all kids the average person in second life is closer to about 40 years old maybe in their Middle-Aid 30s, although there are many many people that are quite a quite a bit older as well as avatars in second life They use it about four hours a day So just as a framing 50,000 people about four hours when you log in the typical experience might be you log in in your house Which looks like a beautiful house. You've furnished it yourself. You've you've it's completely unique It's your place that you've lived in the average person has lived in second life for about eight years It's in there now, which is quite something so you might start in your house and walk outside But your house is in a larger community of houses so you can look down the street There are other houses your friends houses that are decorated with their own art and stuff They've built you might walk down to the end of the street and at the end of the street There's a band stage where there's live music. There's a lot of musicians that actually made it would not a lot But a few so far a second life is a million people not a billion yet But there are musicians who made it in second life. So you walk down the street You can hear music playing you walk with maybe a friend you go into the music venue There's new people that you haven't met before You listen to music for a little bit. Maybe you leave a tip In the tip jar for the musician Then you get somebody tells you let's teleport I want to show you some art and you go with them. Maybe this is somebody new you've never met before You click on the map and you jump to another place that is literally an artwork that is a whole space So it's a field with a wrecked train in it A Word in a farming field. There's a spinning thing. I can't think And there's wheat and there's all these strange things for you to explore and together you wander around in this gigantic artwork And have this experience while talking to this new person you met so four hours goes by quickly You log off back at your desk In front of your computer so that would be a second life day in the life Thank you so much Philip, you know, you mentioned leaving a tip and that leads us to talking about the economy of the Metaverse can you talk about some of the success and that was achieved on The economic end of things and some of the transactions that you saw in the in second life Thanks So there are hundred as I said before there they're typically in a day's time There might be a few hundred thousand people that are in second life, but a million people if you look at same month That the economy of the world is about 650 million dollars US Although it's in its own currency, but US equivalent per year The average transaction in second life is about two dollars So it might be for something like a pair of glasses for your avatar and earring a piece of furniture for your house as I mentioned Two dollars is the average transaction 650 million dollars a year so that's about 350 million transactions more transactions per second even in second life Then the blockchain can handle today. So talk about being early. We're still quite early the second life doesn't use blockchains the That's the average transaction size and all over that that sort of city-sized economy Provides a real-world living, you know a significant enough living to make your way in the real world for probably a Few thousand people of those million people. So, you know, maybe that's a good description of the economy all of the things that you buy and sell in second life are Coated with who made them and who owns them and if they're for sale and at what price So second life is a kind of a laboratory for many of the things that we hear being talked about in the web three stuff Such as NFTs, you know digital objects that you can own but yeah So to that point we start to see NFTs being leveraged to sell real estate in advance in the metaverse Can you share a bit more about that? What you've seen. Oh real estate, right? So second life the the space is about the size of Los Angeles All together and it is actually walkable, you know, it is it's a real city It has islands that you have to teleport to but much of it is connected So real estate in there from the very beginning has been something that you could buy and then sell if you wanted to And so that's a fascinating marketplace in fact I was wondering that I was trying to think compared to the very excited sort of NFT stuff that we're seeing going on right now Which is certainly, you know, at least some kind of a bubble at this moment Second life real estate is much cheaper, you know The the the real price of digital goods and of digital spaces is more modest than the real world So I think one of the promises of say Land or you know owning property or owning a space in the metaverse is that Because of course computing is much cheaper to provide the support for that those places can be much less expensive than the places in The real world, but yeah, there's a very significant real estate market and it's probably a You know, I don't know a hundred million dollars a year or something in in thousands of pieces of land Overall, I think second life is owned the land itself is owned by those who wish to actually own land and engage in community building But it's perhaps a hundred thousand or so people that own all the real estate there And so in order to grow that economy and attract Enterprise and in other trends in other transactions You want to have and make sure that there's a great deal of security Hoda, can you speak to what you see? In regards to security and keeping these transactions safe Security it's always a dynamic evolution of technology. So you need to always there's not One silver bullet security. So you always build it for the now and you strive to make it better and better And this is how the community started always like you build a piece of security and there is a Crypto-analysis or attack measures that are happening against it and you tend to evolve the security as you go So the way we build security now and integrate it and the different crypto systems or NFT systems is In my opinion not sustainable for the long run because we need to keep on strive striving to to maintain this level of security and Also security is governed by computing power And I don't know if you attended a few of the sessions yesterday where one of the declarations that came across is by 2025 we will have quantum computing Power that is available on commercial aspects and this is worrisome to me because most of our security that we're building today is Is not going to withstand 70% of our security that we're having today is not going to withstand quantum computing power If it is integrated within within the crypto world if it's integrated with the metaverse world Which means that we have the responsibility as a community of Scientists or developers building the security to evolve our our Primitives to be post quantum resilient or resistance or to Find different courses of improving computing maybe base our computing and memory based computing rather than The level of computing that quantum computing will provide and that's the conversation that we're having at the moment It's also how mindful are we when we are building this technology towards the the global goals of You know energy and climate, you know preservations because You know them going forward as well. We need to be mindful of the privacy rights How can we make sure that we decentralized privacy aspects? So you and the metaverse is in full control of your privacy full control means full control it doesn't mean that you have to agree on privacy terms and then Have to let go of partial level of control to someone else and if you can monetize that Private data, then you have the full control and choice of monetizing that private data And how can we escalate from there to also having this actual? Authentic realization of different rights, you know, I know most of Europe at the moment They have the GDPR laws which would says that you have on a digital space the right to be forgotten and the right not to be analyzed And that I and different rights, but in reality in technology We don't have algorithms that will grant you the right not to be analyzed So how can you in the metaverse if you choose to be invisible and I choose to protect your security? Then you can do that. No one could analyze you. No one could subject you to AI analytics if that's Something that you don't want to be subjected to and if you want to be invisible or forgotten and have absolutely zero digital Trace, how can you do that? And this fourth aspect is is that the majority of Characters that we're building and avatars that we're building and In the metaverse, they're supposed to give you the freedom of representation So freedom for presentation means that if I choose to be someone else I can do that but what does it mean in terms of traceability in terms of Providing a level of ownership in case of Something went wrong. How can you trace that entity or that personality and hold them accountable to the actions that are That they are ha, you know, that they are having on the metaverse Ecosystem so again, Nicole my bottom line here is we need to really Rebuild the ecosystem of technology that we're building it in the metaverse Starting with the computing starting with the crypto starting with a different level of algorithms because we're trying to build an ecosystem that is mindful of the end user you know Well-being and all aspects of what what well being is defined Yeah, thank you so much So you talked a bit about you know the well-being of the individuals engaging In the metaverse and ensuring that they are secure and their privacy is protected So there are excuse me additional transactions that can take place Peggy What do you see for the monetization of the metaverse is there an app store? Yeah, I think there's there's absolutely an app store It'll just be much bigger So for instance, I I'm very focused on enterprise right now And I'm looking at the capability of having enterprise applications accessible To to any company who who logs in to to the metaverse one of the applications right now that we're dealing with is For factory workers. There's an issue right now. We're a lot of the Older factory workers as they retire. We're not refilling it with younger factory workers There's there's there's not a lot of lure for a young person to go and work in a factory I think they're they're more digitally You know Digitally adept and a factory doesn't look very digital to them. And so there are applications that can be worn on The headset on our augmented reality headset that actually allow that young factory worker to have a digital experience like the older retiring ones would never have had the opportunity to have and There's companies now that are using it to train the factory workers So as those older employees retire the younger ones can actually become come up to speed more quickly By putting the headset on actually going out onto the factory floor on day one Maybe versus sitting in a classroom for three weeks They can walk up to a machine and they can be talked through how to Maintain that machine by the retired factory worker who you know Who will be represented in in a video in their field of view But they're actually seeing the machine in front of them They have the use of both of their hands to do whatever needs to be done to maintain that machine and For the the company that owns that factory this brings them a shortening a time to productivity So that factory worker can be put right out on the factory floor and be productive from day one Versus, you know sitting in in a classroom So this is the sort of thing that we'll see the monetization of there'll be a you know a pool of applications And then eventually obviously consumer application and lots and lots of entertainment type of applications But here's something right now that that there's significant economic value in So much Peggy so how do you talk that you know talked about security and privacy and certainly as we engage in additional transactions Be a B to B B to C You know we additionally there's continued issues around privacy So Philip can you tell us a bit about your perspectives on the metaverse then and now in regards to privacy Well at the start and this is somewhat unique to second life We wanted to enable people to have a second life And so we presumed I think in a way that was a bit different than what we have seen With much of the internet and and some of the metaverse projects today We presumed that what we wanted to enable people to do as Hoda said was to Indeed if they wanted to and likely they did create a completely unique identity And so from the start we sort of had to balance two concerns one was protecting their privacy In an extraordinary way Because if you think about it as you can imagine if you create a new identity for yourself in the metaverse or in second life And it's completely different identity. You certainly don't want there to be a breach or an attack on the company Or on your own data, which would reveal who you are in the real world There has been much science fiction written about this, but you don't want that to happen yet People only come together and behave in a civil manner when they have a degree of consequence and responsibility attached to their identity It's easy to do that of course with real identity. I mean everybody can turn in their passports You know when they come to the party or something But but again that doesn't provide for that first concern Which is that we should be able to be who we want to be at that moment together with others So there's this balance that I think we've explored a bit in second life And that we're going to have to do broadly I think across the metaverse and in fact I think some of the interoperability concerns between different worlds of the metaverse must focus on this Delicate balance between preserving your identity so that you truly can be someone else if you wished you but Connecting you to other people to the space In a way that creates responsibility and consequence second life is This bit of hope in what has seemed like a largely negative Set of interactions between people online You certainly can and I think the metaverse can be a tool for this by putting people together in a shared space where they feel Close to each other. I mean literally your avatar is close enough that it could reach out and touch someone else you know another avatar doing that right can enable us to Come together as strangers even in public spaces online and get along and get to know each other better and cross over Boundaries and be less divisive rather than more polarized so and be more inclusive so that That I think is an opportunity but There are tremendous risks and challenges that we do it right balancing security privacy Freedom of speech these things are extraordinarily subtle in terms of how we design them and we're gonna have to do it right But there is there is hope In finding that balance and responsibility Indeed we're opening up our world and engagement with with strangers and children will be engaging With people that you know, you may not be certain of what age they are and and what have you we've seen the Impact of online bullying Ed. Can you tell us about your view of how do we how do we keep children safe in the metaverse? Yeah Before we keep children safe We've got to make sure that we build fun and engaging Experiences and online playgrounds if we don't do that It's won't show up So we've got to make sure that it's a fun place to be an exciting place to be but in addition of course You know now we're at the beginning of the metaverse We must learn from our mistakes. We did make mistakes in internet 2.0 and we've got to make sure That safety is a key part of what we do but beyond safety and I really ask technology companies governments policy makers Society to think beyond safety to consider children's well-being as well Without safety you can't have well-being but safety is not a guarantee of well-being so we Building on some research that professor Sonia Livingston did in the Digital Futures Commission in the UK have Been involved in a research project and Hoda's Institution Hoda herself has been involved in this as well called right heck It's the responsible innovation of technology for children And we're looking into and trying to define what well-being looks like online for children And we had conversations with over 300 kids across 13 different and very diverse markets To get their insights on well-being and we asked them what well-being was about and there was extraordinary Commonality wherever you went well being meant physical well-being it meant went mental well-being It meant social well-being and what came through on social well-being was Children's need to feel loved to be loved by parents by family by friendships And also it was about self Worth feeling that they were Really positive about themselves and from there we asked the kids What did they want to see in online experiences and they wanted positive social connections? they wanted the opportunity to be creative they wanted to see Diversity equity and inclusion in their online experiences that being about Was the technology attainable for them? But also did they feel represented in the experiences that they were enjoying and so from there We are developing with the research institutions Indicators of well-being But we think that Designers need to have in mind as they put in place and they build this metaverse And it's with thought like that very deliberate thought At the outset But we're gonna get To a more positive place for children in the metaverse and I think that's what was missing in internet 2.0 And we should all learn from that and make sure that we're Moving forward in the right way for 3.0 Thank you so much. So we've had a great picture, you know that paints the future of the metaverse So what I'd like to ask each of you in 30 or second 30 seconds or less What is your audacious goal for the metaverse 30 seconds or less? Inclusive disruptive technology belt, I would say we shouldn't build the metaverse based on legacy systems But we should disrupt the way we build the technology across board As you can imagine, I would say that it would be that in 10 years time or so we can look back and say that remarkably enough We actually found a way to use the internet to come together Get along With each other resolve our differences resolve disputes solve geopolitical problems Together in a virtual space And I'd say I think it can help us have more fulsome communications and meetings I think meetings will come to life. They'll not be on our flat zoom screen that we're so tired of You'll actually be able to see people virtually in front of you and maybe we'll travel a little bit less I Wish that the metaverse will help us cut the pool signs so that we can accelerate science We can build human level artificial intelligence and with that we can create a golden age for humankind An inspiring fun Engaging environment for children with their safety and well-being at its very core and I think that's audacious, but I think it's achievable Thank you so much. We've heard from this amazing panel and now we'd like to hear from you Absolutely Your question Thank you so much for how you conducted it and also the variety of views One problem that I've identified or that it you you've touched upon is actually the balance between the physical and The digital because we're moving more and more towards the digital And more accelerated and as you say children will be completely immersive So how do we teach them to have that connection that we grew up with? and I Interested in the research that you said you're doing in the UK and the UK based and actually I was here launching two days ago and initiative to reestablish hand writing into the mainstream Worldwide because even ourselves we've blurred this and there's no space In our daily lives where we don't have screens any day So I think the researches and our conversations should also question that now that you are in the leading Forefront of that and I hope that yes just as much I say as we advance in being digitally Literate we shouldn't become humanly illiterate. I also would like you to Invite you to take on handwriting and perhaps participate in the project And also to pass on to the children. Thank you Thank you Thank you so much for the question And I'd like to know what are you doing regarding that? Yeah, thank you so much for the question I mean the Lego group is we're celebrating our 90th birthday This year and we're having a Good party about it in the coming weeks And of course at our core We're a physical toy company and that's not going away the Lego brick the Lego system of play much loved and is our focus But actually the the separation of physical and digital is something that I think we think about as adults But if you talk to kids today, they don't really see it that way. It's a very seamless experience for them between both online and offline worlds and so in our view and in our Opinion you got to have offerings in both space The brick isn't going away the unlimited possibilities of the Lego brick is here to stay But we believe we can enhance it through online experiences. We've dabbled in this and and got some significant online offerings But I think that the metaverse provides new opportunities, so I completely understand what you're saying and As a parent, I'm also concerned about good things like picking up physical books and Obviously playing with Lego bricks, which my kids do quite a lot but I think that we are have to be cognizant of the fact that Kids want to be online as well, and it's where they can get new dimensions of possibilities in play Mixed reality. Can you share more about that and find that balance and blend? I think the opportunity for the metaverse in the context of children is right now Kids are looking down at their screens. They're fully immersed in this other area of this digital area They're oftentimes they're disengaged from their physical world And the opportunity is for them to have a heads-up view again to enter their Or to come back to their physical world and have digital content Interspersed in that in that digital world. So maybe they're playing Legos physically But up in the corner of their field of view, you know, a friend is chatting with them And and so it's this type of mixed reality World that that is possible with the metaverse I don't actually think it'll be possible until we can get these devices into glasses formats You hear many many companies are working hard on making them smaller The current state of the technology is such that it looks a bit like what where we're at Which is kind of a goggles format But when they can be super lightweight and you just put them on in the morning the same way that you pick up your mobile phone In the morning, that's when I think you're really going to see the the potential there We might want to note or just add technically that a good thing that's happening right now, whether it's magically or The Oculus Quest for example, these latest devices can track the hands They actually use AI to do that effectively. It did was terrible a few years ago So there's something coming together, which is all these devices have cameras Even our own computers post COVID have more cameras on them and we can track the hands So the imagine a child being able to draw at least in the air quite accurately And so I think we're well we are seeing that there are there are any number of applications If you've not tried them now with the new VR devices that do allow that kind of a rich embodiment use of the hands And most importantly here you could see from the points of view of my colleagues in the panel But there is an escalation of how we build the technology to provide this kind of mixed Mixed reality that we are building and at the same time We are trying to build this reality where children are not consumers of the technology but they're also developers of the technology and soon they would be building their own Metaverse and hopefully they will be shocked by how it would look like from a child perspective Yeah Well, just talking about the handwriting I have a horrible handwriting But I learned that the largest part of the brain is actually for controlling your physical body So I feel that these days the virtual reality Technologies heavily focus on the eyes a little bit on like your hand, but they've children Spend too much time Deprived from sensory input. I don't think that's a good thing So I'm until the metaverse is there where it should be I would rather send my child into the forest get the hands dirty and swimming in the lakes Then they spend too much time in the virtual reality Thank you so much and thank you for your question this gentleman here Good to get your opinion on what is the fundamental problem metaverse will solve or what is the fundamental benefit? We can expect because there's a lot of promises and theory But what is the fundamental promise today? We are solving whether it's a commercial problem or the health problem or a social problem or what are the fundamental benefits? We can expect a Level be a question for me. Yeah, I Think the metaverse is the place where people can collaborate with each other And their people can actually meet each other rather easily Imagine a virtual for example science lab or fish intelligence lab where more than billion scientists around the globe Can actually collaborate together if you could tremendously accelerate science So I think one of the largest impacts of the metaverse will be on science and scientific discovery I think that alone is already worth to pursue the metaverse technology as heavily as we can I Think a practical example the tap happens in second life It's definitely happening with the these first generation VR devices is school If you could bring a teacher to your school that was an Egyptologist that was an expert in a specific Egyptian tomb and she could take your kids in the school into the tomb and Show them the you know everything about it and spend an hour doing that and then that same teacher could move on to a school Some more far away and you know do that her whole day. I mean that's just a huge Move forward for humanity because of the equality that it brings for example to education any teacher can be brought to any students Also, it's about removing barriers to accessibility of resources if you think of it today If you need to access a specific scientific resources or education resources You need to have Specific level of collaboration and partnerships and agreement in order to get to there Maybe the metaverse could be your seamless environment where you have where you will have Accessibility multitude of resources to build the impact and accelerate the impact that you want to go with but my question right now is we need to be mindful to the fact that This is only applicable to 60 percent of people around the globe who are digitally connected How can we build this technology where it is going to be? viral in terms of impact to also bring along the 40 percent who are not digitally connected because Sharing this resource and being able to build the technology where it it gives back to this 40 percent who are not digitally connected Is very important as well Covid brought up the digital divide did you want to add something? Well, I just think it has the potential to augment Human potential, you know, you can think of it as a tool that helps you do whatever you're doing Faster quicker. You're more informed a little bit like what it was pre Search engine and post-search engine. You know, we used to have to get out encyclopedias and look things up Go to the library and now it's just so easy to do a quick search It'll be that same sort of tool that will augment, you know, whatever you're doing bring it to a higher potential Let's take another question My apologies lady in the front, please Hi, so I totally agree with you that we need to ensure security and privacy in the metaverses and Also that they are built to be inclusive and diverse But my question is who are we and who do we how do we ensure that we are aligned and agree across the metaverses? That's a great question. I think from the terms of governance We need to find a way as Philip said earlier to find a Governance structure that does not disrupt the freedom Ecosystem that you're trying to build here. Does it exist right now? We don't know like who are we? What do we want to do? How do we want to contribute the ecosystem is supposed to be Mindful and respectful of everybody's right to exist on the metaverse, but at the same time build a level of Ownership to Malaysia's activities in my opinion There should be a way where we can build anomalies of Malaysia's activities for example and You know stop them prior to them having You know a catastrophic ramification on the other users on the network Yeah, you know, I think it has to be a mix of Many voices in order to solve this one from it. I'm an engineer from a technical standpoint I'm trying to be as open and transparent about what these devices can do so that society can understand why they need to be Have a certain amount of regulation around them. For instance, we have about five count or five Inward-facing cameras on your eyes because we need we need to know where your eyes are gazing in order to place the digital content And then there's four outward cameras that are trying to map your world And so that's a lot of sensors. It's much more than our mobile phones And so we have to ensure that everyone understands what these devices are capable of in the same way We need to understand artificial intelligence and what those algorithms are capable of doing in the biases They might introduce or not so it's it's incumbent upon technologists to not just create good technology and unleash it on the world but to also carry the responsibility of Containing and controlling that technology, you know, hopefully without suppressing innovation, but making it a safe place and useful for everyone Well, let me just add something, you know, maybe interesting on that This first generation of the internet that we obviously collectively have a lot of problems with especially right now relies on We have no identity there. You are anonymous when you go everywhere on the internet It is exceptionally unusual on the internet that you have an identity at all Now you might then say well to make this new thing work. We're gonna go government ID, right? But I think a more modern and philosophical thought about identity about we if you will is that we Our identity our individual identities are constructed by the local communities, which are multiple and overlapping that we're members of and so my suspicion is that we will through a mix of new Decentralized stuff and some of the things we've already learned will come up with a way for you to identify yourself to become part of we Through connections with others through many connections with others affiliations with groups So I think if this starts from the bottom up and is polycentric you are a member of multiple groups I think we'll end up with something that as I said before Balances that that need for freedom with an adequate membership in society Yeah, it's a great question about governance and one that we've been involved in several discussions this week on then We need to get there quick we need to get to a global consensus on what are the design Principles we want to see go into the metaverse and there's so many different questions. How do we do things like age verification? Online what impact what do we know and what impact and what research we doing on the impact of hardware on? young people whether through their Ocular vision or through neural elasticity all these questions are things that we need to Understand and understand pretty quickly because we know the rate of innovation is very very high so We've got to get to that global consensus. I think that This week is I've certainly heard some really positive and strong words about doing that and the transparency that people like Peggy is Committing to is is incredibly positive. So that's what we want to see across industry and Government as well I think you're hitting at the weak spot. We have no solution to that I do not believe that we can ease to reach so easily a global consensus when I look at human nature these days Didn't do a good job when it came to ethics I mean there are basic like questions like human rights for example even there We don't have a consensus So I would imagine that the consensus for the virtual world might be a little bit more tough to get So I think we don't have yet a good solution to your question Lady in the front there Hi, good morning. My name is Verena. I would like to share an observation and also raise a question So first of all, I would like to mention that I feel extremely humble and deeply impressed being able to be here life in this room with you Don't worry. I'm not gonna touch you but I think this is the the why been let's say this experience being here is something I assume is very hard to be replicated in a digital world in the met the worst But I yeah, maybe I can still see that in the course of the upcoming years. I would be surprised though Now to my question Ed you mentioned this amazing application of the importance of creating safe spaces for children in order to learn to have a fun Place amazing opportunities. I could see here in Peggy. You mentioned this applications in healthcare In relation to augmented reality supporting surgeons also another topic very close to my heart And I can't wait to see more of these things to be put in practice Now to my question. I don't want to play the devil's advocate, but what about the risks involved? So where I'm heading to is thinking about the current stage of the internet is I know it and you probably know a bit more about that I think about Fake news I think about deep fake videos something I consider very fascinating from a scientific or Artificial intelligence point of view, but also at the same time it gives me shivers about what could go wrong What about all the? Detrimental applications that are out there. So don't get me wrong I mean, I'm really looking forward to see all these amazing opportunities But how can we tackle the risks and what need to be done there to be able to ensure that the metaverse will be truly an Enriching experience for everyone. I Think that's a very good question. What's your name again Verina Verina? I think This is why we started the session by saying the way we build the metaverse and the underlying technology need to change Because these legacy systems that we build the technology based on they allow for fake news to exist They allow for this kind of misrepresentation of identities misrepresentation of facts and This is why we are suffering at the moment. So how can we fact check? Fact check all of these representation that exists in the metaverse Allow the users to for example yesterday in one of the sessions someone say that there should be an alert Button where you can exist where it can exit your virtual reality If you choose to if you were overwhelmed with the information or overwhelmed with it with the truth of information That you are being represented with so at the moment We're still trying to build solution for these kind of problems because they Cannot exist in a metaverse that should not exist in a metaverse reality For the high risk that they have and the implication of on the well-being on building biases on building specific polarization actions In the space, so it's an open problem. We need to still resolve it Well, I could perhaps give a specific well one thing I wanted to say I agree with you that the The face-to-face experience is very subtle and very hard to capture and we're not even close yet So we're still giving you a telephone to communicate You know if in a sense we're certainly not yet bringing you face-to-face We brought the lights up as we background these questions. I love that that was well done by our Organizers of course because it's very important because it changes the nature of the interaction that we have when I can see your face When you're asking the question to me so an example of how technology, you know is still has some steep hills to climb to put Us together. I would say a risk. I'll give a risk as a participant in all this stuff If we use AI to create fake people and then we mostly interact when we go online with fake people Not with real people We're going to be making a terrible terrible mistake and there's going to be an enormous temptation to do that because AI's will give us nicer versions of all our friends How terrifying right you could have an AI that is your mom and dad only they're much nicer to you That isn't any good. We don't want that right I think a key measure of success in Going after these risks is are we bringing ourselves together or are we bringing ourselves more apart? And when we look back at a day in our lives online Yeah, I think the most important diagnostic question to say are we making the right kind of progress is are we spending more time with each other or Less time with each other and unfortunately right now. I think in some in many ways We're spending less real time with each other when we're online I Will never dare to contradict Philip a big fan of Philip in the public setting, but I think I need to I Think it would be an awesome product to have like the perfect human being in front of you Designed by means of human engineers or AI. I don't care I just want to have like a super duper interesting person in front of me So why don't you think people would not buy such a product with the perfect girlfriend the perfect actor I think they would be an amazing product. Don't you think? Well, don't you think though that the risk the the risk of manipulating each other if I if I if I Adopt that virtual friend How do I know that virtual friend isn't manipulating my behavior? You tell me from from your extensive experience with the mind and AI will AI's be able to manipulate our behavior Definitely actually human beings are also able to manipulate my behavior No, but my my Tesla that I'm driving I mean, I'm completely pendant on that car and I don't think it was a good invention for for the planet But I still drive it because very comfortable. I don't need to drive on my own It can't be manipulated where I drive to I take that risk because the positive benefits outweigh my risks So but we maybe we continue the conversation off towards the doubt I'd like to join that conversation as well I have some issues with trying to create the Perfect person and particularly what impact that might have with people's self-worth offline. So I look forward to it And I think it's very important to take this conversation a conversation to the metaverse We should allow both ideologies to exist in the metaverse But at the same time give the user the full information about the ramification of having these two Both ideologies like having real people versus having perfect AI based structures and People need to know the impact of this exposure. Like I should recognize that this is a full AI build Human being or or virtual digital being and what kind of ramifications in terms of security in terms of well-being that would also Introduce on my interaction. I think give people choice is the best That we can have here on the metaverse Thank you for that question sparking, you know, exactly why we're here to hear these different perspectives with that I'd like to take another question from the audience. We have about the fourth row back the woman in the white and black My name is Magdalena and I agree that we need to as a global community look at the implications of All this technology, right? And do we really want it? What do we want what we don't want? But I want to go back to Mr. Kaufman because you brought up on one hand You're kind of skeptical and saying oh you're underwhelmed But on the other hand you're talking about building human level AI and so can you describe how you're going to use the metaverse To develop human level AI Well, I am when I'm in my physical lab here in Zurich I'm often stuck because I have to order like batteries or motors and have to wait for three weeks and because of the supply chains The crash I have to wait for months But if I was in a virtual artificial intelligence lab I can order that battery instantly and also sometimes I have like really stupid problems And I'm sure some scientists in the world would say hey Pascal it's so easy to solve we should do it like that So I think that way we can reduce hurdles and we can definitely accelerate science by having this perfect AI lab So to speak in the metaverse. Yeah We'll take another question from the gentleman in the front Blue jacket Jeff Richard's AO foundation so on the health care issue So I particularly to Peggy on this we teach with courses we teach with models We teach with cadavers. We're moving into the virtual reality. We teach 60,000 trauma surgeons every year how to operate So where you have an advantage? It's easy to model a bone. It's easy to model vascular system nervous system Model the immune system. You can't model that but the metaverse could this will help diseases This will help everything all over the world. That's one the second point. That's education. That's fine Then you come to actual surgery You can have a virtual body in the actual body of the person you're operating on and with Marcus You can know where the implant is you can reduce x-rays. You can make it much more accurate. So it's not just education It's perfect in in surgery and I see this as a massive benefit of the metaverse Just to follow on to that. I think we'll look back and say remember when surgery was done without Without digital augmentation and it's like when we had cars and didn't have seatbelts, you know No, that that will be how it'll feel to us and like it just on that another example There's an interesting company that is doing heart catheterization and they used to the surgeons used to insert the catheter by looking at it, you know PC in front of them and you know, it's hard to visualize your cognitively It's hard to visualize something on a flat screen But this company has taken the heart the live heart from the patient real time and Mapped it and put it in front of the surgeon And so now they're putting the catheter into the heart with much higher accuracy and navigation and Less fault and better outcomes. So I think we will look back and say wow How could we ever have gone into the operating room without it? And I also it would govern the way we manufacture solutions for this problem Can you imagine how it would give you an insight to develop for example a Customized precise models of the valves that need to be implanted in the hearts of every single Individual rather than just having a generic model that you need to replace in few years Yeah, I'd like to take another question second row Thank you. So I understand that the metaverse is not gonna solve the or bridge the digital divide yet But for those who are have access to it. Yes There is in my opinion also a big issue here and that is escaping reality and it's Issues it's it's problems and not dealing with it. For example, I'm in the metaverse contemplating and enjoying my sexy self Modeling and and of course dancing and partying all along. However, I'm not perfecting my real self I'm not exercising and so on and so forth with all the consequences and also Yeah, I may solve all these problems I do not know if this illusion of interacting with the perfect person is going to improve myself as well So the question is speaking of the second life. Yes, obviously it's addressed to you as well as to mr. Kaufman Again, I hope you will disagree maybe but this second life is addictive and I mean, I know it because I love it So how about the negative consequences? You know if I could just add something sort of from the world of second life while I agree that Our Removing ourselves from being embodied in our physical bodies in the real world is certainly certainly has risks I was thinking you were going to say that we you know leave behind Basic problems of the real world that we're discussing for example at this conference, you know such as you know conflict food supply Our bodies in the real world take care of a ball of us But one thing I wanted to say about second life. It's quite interesting When people create avatars in second life curiously enough and there have been a large number of academic papers now written on this They actually tend to improve Similar aspects of their real life So for example if people have an avatar that's very fit and dancing all the time they find themselves dancing more In their real life. This is something that is not I'm not asserting it as an anecdote. It's been studied a lot So there's a bunch of physical it has something to do perhaps Pascal could Describe it more it has something to do with our minds Seeing and seeing a version of ourselves that we then use as like a target we we we you know by Demonstrating where we want to be we then go there with our real Body and that there must be a brain thing. Yeah, the same as when you're dreaming actually you're also kind of exercising your activities So it's training that you're doing can ruin in virtual world And just to add your addiction question if you build technology that is not addictive. Maybe the technology is bad So I think you need to build addictive technology so that it's actually useful Chocolate is very addictive. I love chocolate, but there are adverse effects chocolate So therefore I think whenever you're building an awesome product. It gets addictive You actually have time for just one more question. I'd like to get to this side My name is Isha. I'm from Nigeria. So my question is I'm not sure there's an answer But I do recall you you mentioned that the metaverse has really been engineered around those on the positive side of a digital device So are there Are there opportunities are the companies that are looking at those in the fourth forty percent and figuring out problems figuring out Opportunities for them in the metaverse right now. I think Throughout the discourse that we have in this forum We have established that how difficult it is to access the forty percent, but it's our Collective responsibility to find pathways when we build the technology to give back to the forty percent And I think yesterday in one of the sessions someone talked about making this technology light weight So it can exist on any level of device and through interoperability And in the sense, maybe it would be available on cheaper choices much more cost-effective choices So this is number one and number two Maybe we could dictate on the technology makers somehow they use the circularity concept to recycle the devices that are Because you need devices go through specific value chain within the ecosystem of the metaverse How can we recycle old old, you know? Consoles that we are using maybe you should send it across through a one marketplace Platform to people within the forty percent and make it a mandate for these companies to share these kind of city devices or maybe Give back some of the You know, not only up to the devices but devices that you design for the forty percent Allow the community within the metaverse maybe to use part of their economic value that exists to Fund devices or to the fund for accessibility for the forty percent But all of these initiatives are supposed to be put there by design from the get-go from now We have collective responsibility to say that we don't just want to be commercially available We want to be impactful in terms of this availability First an agreement and an observation and it might be a bit controversial amongst some of the technologists But we have no hope of providing value to that To that forty percent of people in the next ten years unless we deliver these experiences whatever it is We're talking about over smartphones. I Mean it seems that at least say in the next decade It's going to be extraordinarily difficult to get to to give anything worldwide that provides help Using anything with smartphones. That'd be an observation The second statement though, I think the opportunity is that if we are able to Deploy Interactive experiences in which people really can both make and communicate with each other You know from wherever they are then we then we certainly must have this opportunity to unlock Creativity for people to Deliver to people all over the world their own unique experiences and capabilities. I think that that is Definitely an opportunity that the internet has not yet given us the internet has mostly been a one to many broadcasting thing Right so far, but if we reverse that and we allow people to build and talk and be creative in the right way Like we've been talking about then then we do have this huge opportunity But I think in the near term we have to go by smartphones the last thing I would say is this I was sitting here thinking at the conference about this the amount of money that we've printed deployed Put to work worldwide In response to COVID right has been in the trillions It is interesting to observe that though the technology that we have arrayed this new stuff like the Magic Leap is not cheap We actually have spent more in response to COVID than it would take to give every living human being Technology of the sort that we're talking about so this new advanced technology We've actually spent that much in the last couple of years. So we could do it Thank you Philip. So this Amazing discussion is coming to a close. I'd like to thank the community here and online for sharing your voices and adding to this Really important conversation and in that you've been sharing your voices with the world via this forum so for last word and Five words or less to the panel What are the key things that you have taken away that make you hopeful for the possibilities of the metaverse? The fact that it's an inclusive open system that we as humans are biased toward cooperation That will be able to augment human potential Not all questions are solved yet. So I think that's potential also for the metaverse The willingness for well-being and I was if I may say sorry, it's a few extra words very inspired sir by your projection on immunity There's a father of a son with an autoimmune disease that gives me great hope What we can achieve through the metaverse going forward Thank you so much. I'd love you to think the panel with