 Okay, greetings everyone and thank you for attending Ukraine's horizons. I'm gonna stand up. They always I'm a professor They tell us we should stand up. I'm gonna stand up for one minute We we are we had a very interesting moment where on the one side We have to think about a military victory in Ukraine and at the same time We have to think about the European Union membership of Ukraine the concept which unites I think victory in membership is Reconstruction We are thinking about horizons Seriously horizons political economic and military and I thought the way to begin this discussion about horizons would be to ask Each of our valuable participants briefly to speak about what we learned or should have learned these last two years And then we will turn to a particular question for each participant. So Mr. President I'd like to begin with you for this brief round robin What did what have we learned about Ukraine in the last two years? What should we have learned? So that's a polite way of asking what mistakes might we have made From which we could have learned. Please begin Thank you Very much and I will start from the terminology because the horizon is something What is moving away when approaching? And for Ukraine, I think we need very clear final Set goals and we have to be consistent in implementing those goals I think there are several channels how we can support Ukraine and I cannot imagine the success of Ukraine without one of those Channels First of all, I would start through from military support. Of course military support is a key issue In order to be successful on the battlefield We need to support Ukraine as soon as possible And as much as possible Much was done A lot was done in the last one and a half years and I think many western countries changed their mindset And just started to realize that without massive Support with military equipment. It's not possible to keep russian Pressure on Ukraine and I think now We need especially The speed of implementation because the decision decisions are done, but the implementation unfortunately is too slow And we are lagging behind of the needs of Ukrainian soldiers The second channel, which is also as much important as the first one is economic support And they count very much on Ability of my colleagues in european council to take this very critically important decision on february first When we will gather in brussels again in order to discuss the issue of 50 billion euros Dedicated for macro economic finance macro finance assistance to Ukraine And they hope no matter 27 or 26 countries We will reach the agreement that will it and that it will be very material support to our friends ukrainians And the third channel is of course political support We need both political decisions in order to be able to invite Ukraine not owned only in European union and to start accession Negotiations as soon as possible But we also need success in the field of integration into nature And I would like to refer to Vilnius summit. Lithuania as you know was proud host of this event NATO summit took place in july 11th and 12th in Vilnius, and I think it was very successful meeting not only Because of decisions which we are taken in the field of deterrence and defense For investment pledge also regional plans Defense plans, but also regarding ukraine Although the first reaction of our friends was not As optimistic as we expected but at the end of the day, I think Everybody understood that this is unique opportunity to make the first step and to expect that this strategic Possibility will be used in later summits and now we are Counting for last months before the washington summit and I hope that it will be the success too Thank you. There'll be a second round of questions where we can continue these themes I want to just make sure that each of us has a chance for this impulse question Impulse question. So minister olongun. Let's take another shot at this What ought we to have learned in the last two years? That we can apply now. What have we learned about ukraine? What have we learned about europe? What have we learned about ourselves that we can apply going forward? I think what we've learned about ukraine is its commitments to freedom and to democracy and to the european calls To nato I see I think we're seeing a country that's been in a full-scale war for two years But in a war and the annexation of Crimea is 10 years ago now So the commitment has only grown stronger And I think that's that's what we've learned that this is a real conviction that the ukrainians have But that they cannot do it alone say they need our support. They need our military support and they need our support to connect and to integrate with europe as an economy Also in their in the security arrangements that we're talking about and that we're working on They need they need us. They need that commitment and we need to be there We need to make sure that we don't talk about war fatigue And that we don't forget about ukraine because we're occupied elsewhere in the world war in in the middle east threats in the pacific the balkan Africa there are many things going on But we need to continue that focus on ukraine because ukraine needs us and I think that's what we've learned Okay, well done Minister albares bueno same question same question to you We're very it's one thing that strikes me in this discussion is how natural a group this is It might not have seemed so natural a group three years ago before the war And but now there's a kind of natural collegiality of having a representative of the presidential staff of ukraine The the plenipotentiary if I may use that word of the united states government for aid to ukraine The minister of defense the netherlands and minister of foreign affairs of spain and the president of lithuania together This group has a kind of naturalness to it that it might not have had before the war And that for me is one of the things that I have learned that this constellation can actually Merge and it's been something really heartening to see especially from the other side of the atlantic Mr minister same question I think there are three main lessons the first one is a little bit related to what you were saying Is that when we act within european union, but also europe with its natural allies, uh, especially united states when we act With unity and with solidarity We achieve much better results and we do it much faster The fact that very quickly we decided to provide weapons at the european union level that we took And we are lying our sanctioned decision with within european union with the united states things like those made the difference The the second thing is that unfortunately We thought that european values and war In europe as a way of settling disputes between states was something that belonged to the past Something before world war two that it couldn't happen again There are threats outside European union russian aggression to ukraine is one of them also within our society that goes against democracy against european values and of course War it's still in the mind of some actors a way of solving issues And the third one is and this is something that we should have done probably very quickly We put a little bit of time in doing it Uh, we we thought that it was very clear for everyone in the world that this was a war in europe that is But this wasn't a european war Because it affected very specific principles of the united nation charter We should have talked much faster to the global south to explain them that what is going on in ukraine Is not only about europe, but it's about how we have World order based on rules and the very basic principle of the united nation charter Okay, that's so important that i want to follow up on it very briefly Do you think mr. Minister it is too late to do that? And if not What ought europeans to be doing because that seems to me to be a very important point you're making Definitely not and we have been doing it already for for several months But that's two things once is to explain that what such a stake in ukraine is not only ukraine sovereignty and independence which is already huge But is much more and it doesn't matter in which continent you are it affects you if russia wins this war Everyone in the world will be less safe because its big neighbor could want to do the same thing And the second thing we have to understand that there are side effects in this war That have strong impact on countries that are very far away from ukraine We have seen that with food supply with the energy prices And we must be next to those countries to help them spain for instance We have tripled our development cooperation programs on those issues with countries of africa to tell them that we Understand that for them there is also bad effects right as a as a historian of ukraine one thing Which has struck me throughout this war is how difficult it has been for ukrainians to explain to the global south That perhaps this is an imperial war Perhaps this is a colonial war And I tend to think that if others can find ways to help them explain that that would also be a good thing Um secretary pritzker same question What what might we have learned from the last two years that we can apply now going forward? Well, I think we've wasted too much time. Uh, and I In to begin creating the enabling conditions for reconstruction And um, that's the area that I live in and I would say that ukraine is making consequential decisions Now not only to win the war but also to win their future And they're cognizant that they can't win this war in the absence of economic recovery They're also cognizant that this is an economic war as much as it is We've just talked about some of that and I think the lesson for us is we've got to hold ourselves accountable To our commitments to ukraine and to accelerate our delivery On these commitments and with the united states I think we've made the commitment to have ukraine's back and to help ukraine stand on its own two feet and it starts obviously With our supplemental and our need to get our own legislation completed I think with the private sector, it's you know, my my word is you need to go to kiv. You need to go and see what a european city looks like in the middle of ukraine and You know just and also understand the private sector mentality that exists the the quality of the individuals who are talent to run businesses to carry out reconstruction and that the government is very much driven by They have a business mentality and a mindset They hold themselves accountable to data to keep performance in indicators and things like that And they're ready to prime the pump for projects And to the international community I think the points that have been made here about we have to remain united and not get distracted It's extremely important The war this war has enormous consequences for the world and If we and none of someone made the argument earlier today that I agree with none of the big problems facing the world economic problems things like Food security or things like inflation can't be solved without resolving this conflict Beautiful Mr. Yermak same same question. You have the last word and then we'll turn to particular questions to particular participants Thank you. I'd like to be very concrete and very short Several conclusions and what we can learn during these two years. First of all For 100 understandable that any frozen conflict in sometimes Push to the new war It's mean that all these Minsk agreements this Lot of far hundred rounds of the negotiations in normandy formats Russia use To be prepared for the aggressions Next I think it's a time to forget that in our world can exist local war The aggressions russia Against ukraine show and all the the crisis which Appeared in the results and food crisis environmental humanitarian That Just the country in the nazi continent have today influence of the war The biggest war in the europe after the second world war Very important time everything. It's necessary to do in time We're very happy that several days ago the first Security cooperation agreement the great britain was signed in kiv. This is the result of the declaration which was agreed in Vilnius But of course It's necessary to understand if It's happened before Maybe we can prevent it these Aggressions and these thousands of the people who is killed in ukraine The hacking of the international organizations it's one of the strategy of the any aggressors It's mean that we need very seriously to look because for example during these two years any person from red cross Any time visited to the any prisoners of wars of of ukrainians who is in the terrible Conditions they under tortures and you can remember the Alenevka prison then russian skilled 50 persons Of ukrainian and to last We really Saw that the mostly people of the world They very quickly made the choice And it's very good that the mostly the people of the world ordinary people make a very quickly choice that that on the side Of the good not in the side of the evil it's mean that We more need politics of value that real politics and the last Russia never not stop war by its will It's mean that To make it ukraine needs to win and this is 100 percent Thank you That's that's a very interesting point to to end on I wanted I wanted to repeat secretary pritzker's point about Existing conflicts being difficult to resolve Without a ukrainian victory I would add to that the point that there are conflicts which haven't happened yet Which might well happen Without ukrainian victory and so since you've asked an academic to moderate which is already which is always a risk I'm going to point out that hana aren't in her origins of totalitarianism made the point That in order for such regimes to stop they have to be defeated Defeated not in arguments, but they have to be defeated in a way that they understand that they have been defeated That I for me that's something that the last two years have been a reminder of We're now going to turn to particular questions or particular participants, and I urge others to chime in if you like Um president. I'll say it. I'd like to I'd like to begin with you Lithuania has been very clear clear than others certainly clearer than my country About the need for a ukrainian victory the slogan whatever it takes is much clearer than the slogan As long as it takes My question to you is What will it take and the slightly loaded part of my question is Can a war in ukraine be won by europe Without united states You may take that As you know, I will start from the last question I cannot imagine that we could succeed without the engagement of united states And this is very important because we are talking not only about the financial support But we are talking about the chances or perspective of ukraine towards NATO We are talking about the effectiveness of our sanctions and I For me, it's pretty clear that we can be effective of only in the case we Apply the same united policy of sanctions. We have the same approach regarding the how to behave with the frozen assets of russian central bank and private frozen assets And regarding the accountability accountability for the crimes of aggression So I think that united states europe and other democratic countries like minded countries Have to have the same approach and only in that case we can proceed and we can achieve this victory Of course much will depend on the braveness of ukrainian soldiers But for my country, which is not big country For my country, it was important to take the lead by example We will not be the leaders by volume of the support because we are not a large country But for my country, it is important first of all From the moral point of view We have 600 kilometers long border with belarus. We have 120 kilometers long border with kaliningrad region actually russian federation So for my country, there were no illusions about the final intentions of russian regime Not in 2020 2015 or 2022 My country understands very well that the appetite of russian regime is unlimited And if they will succeed in ukraine, there will be second target the third target And because they are challenging the entire democratic world not concrete countries not concrete targets They are challenging our system democratic system the system which is based on the Democratic principles and values Mr president if I could follow up on one little point because I want to make sure that that others pick it up as well as if they like Especially given your background in finance and economics Frozen assets could you brief us on where that discussion currently stands? Well, we are Deep in the discussion what to do with the frozen essence and how to create sustainable Legal framework in order to make the system work So now we are talking about the generated incomes from immobilized russian assets And I hope very much that we will be able to Transfer these generated incomes to the fund which will be dedicated for the reconstruction of Ukraine, but of course we are talking about The assets of russian central bank reserves The private assets which we are frozen by applying the sanctions on russia And this is not so easy from the legal point of view to To to find the solutions But even in this regard as my colleague mentioned We are too slow and we we are questioning we we are asking and requesting The european commission to try To prepare this legal framework I if I remember correctly probably one year ago But so far we are not there And I think this is very important that in many fields of our support to ukraine We speed up Speeding up is very important in order to achieve the better result. Beautiful. Thank you very much Minister olengrin, I wanted to ask you about the connection between The european union its politics and Reconstruction how how can those two things be connected? How does accession how do accession and reconstruction work together? And how do we understand for ourselves and how do we explain The benefits of ukrainian eu membership? To europeans to europeans, yeah That's a very very fair point a good point also But I think what I see in my country for instance is that there is really broad support for continuing support to ukraine And there is also a broad support for starting accession negotiations talks Having having that perspective for for ukraine ukraine is seen much more now perhaps Than before as a european country as a neighboring country that belongs to europe that shares our values I'm not sure that people in the european union are aware of the The the scale of the reconstruction that has to be done In ukraine and that means also the scale of the damage done by russia to ukraine Especially of course in the annexed regions still under russian control But reconstruction is much more than that because ukraine has been under attack the whole country has been under attack Last winter it was attacking the vital infrastructure the energy infrastructure This year they seem to be or this winter they seem to be targeting the The arms manufacturers and really military goals, but that means that there's been massive massive Damage And I think we we we simply cannot sort of understand the scale of of this and ukraine is also a very big country We have many ukrainians in the net loans in many other european countries I'm sure that ukraine wants them to come back They can only come back if they have homes to come back to if they have jobs to come back to You will have hundreds of thousands of veterans to reintegrate into your society. So this reconstruction has so many aspects And I think this is something that europe and european union is really good at To understand this to coordinate this To provide funding for this and also to divide the work amongst ourselves, of course under coordination of ukraine itself But it's huge If I can make another historian's point One could perhaps recall that the european integration process at its origins Was also a reconstruction process That the physical reconstruction of western and southern europe took place simultaneously with and was an integral part of The european union as we understand it Today with a little bit help from the americans No Quite a lot. We're gonna we'll let's keep that element in let's keep that element very much very much in play And I also wanted to to make the point which I hope um secretary pritzker will pick up as well That the the scale of reconstruction is also an opportunity There are many things that we reconstructed but that doesn't mean they're all going to be built back exactly the way they were before Many things can be built back better to quaint a phrase and Many many many things can be Ukranians have ideas about how to reconstruct which will be both interesting and profitable I think And so they're there where there seems to be a greater scale of destruction There is also I think sometimes a greater scale of opportunity minister about his point of essentially the same question How do we link the politics of European union accession With the process of reconstruction broadly understood And how how should european politicians be talking to themselves and their constituents about The benefits of membership of the ukrainian membership in the european union accession and reconstruction actually If we want to be successful for us for european union and for ukraine must be two parallel things The challenge is huge minister was talking about that the amount of money that will have to be invested We have to realize that this is a country at war It's such a challenge for ukraine and for european union that if we don't plan very well the reconstruction ukraine will never be able to meet the criteria And accession is already a very big spur For ukraine to improve business environment to do reforms. They are already making efforts to With anti-corruption regulation with loving regulation So both of them must be linked since the very beginning and and the benefits are very clear for european union first of all We have to make sure and I was saying this at the beginning That war is really eradicated from europe if russia wins this war We our security will be at the stake european union security So what's at the stake is to decide that european union is the only one that decide who is a member Of the club or not that war is not a way of settling dispute between the states So our security is really at the stake On what will be going on at the end of the war In ukraine and the second thing is it's how we view ourselves as a project in the world And ukraine fits perfectly well not only because the people in ukraine are also fighting for our own values And for being with us, but it's also how we will relate to the rest of europe and to the rest of the world And therefore we need ukraine in our project If I could if I could just follow up on that I it's um We often forget that The european union even as it was a project of reconstruction. It was also a project that involved Countries some of them represented here losing imperial wars And finding their way back to europe and I can't help but think that The lesson that a country has to lose a war Could be more clearly stated when we speak about the european union that just to say the russia It's not just that ukraine has to win It's that russia has to lose those are both independently good things. I believe Secretary pritzker I I hope you will pick up on some of the points that have already come up If you could if you could brief us from your point of view on the question of frozen assets That would be very helpful, but what I'd particularly be interested in hearing from you about Are is what is special about this challenge of reconstruction? Reconstruction is is now is now your brief and you have all sorts of experience in american government In the private sector, which is relevant to this to this brief What would you say is special about this reconstruction challenge in ukraine? for me as someone who has been traveling around the country during the war and has Physically watched people rebuild their houses. It it strikes me that an important element of this has to be While we focus on the central government We also find the localities or the other actors who have proven themselves Successful in helping to in helping to rebuild. This could be the private sector. This could be civil society This could be local government But i'd like to ask you to reflect on the breadth of what a reconstruction effort would look like in ukraine Thanks, let me start at the first question and then evolve to the second question There are many things that are special about this reconstruction. First of all, it's the largest reconstruction Project since world war two and unlike other reconstruction projects. Let's say in afghanistan or iraq You have a highly you have a combination of things a highly skilled workforce A strong state capacity a willing population And a long-term pathway into the eu and nato and that combination is extremely powerful when it comes to reconstruction Then you add on top of it the world's richest soil that's capable of feeding the world and inexpensive it specialization And you add those capabilities you add all those qualities together that makes this a particularly Compelling situation the challenge of course is it's in we're in the middle of a war So we've got to deal of course with the first situation before we can deal with the Past but we don't have to wait The situation in ukraine the way i think about it and it's because i'm a runner I think about it as a sprint and a marathon and um, you know, the goal is a long-term sustainable digital clean competitive european ukraine integrated into global markets That's the marathon But there's a lot of things that we can do now in the sprint if you will and the and those are the things that The ur that the ukrainian government and my part of our engagement We're working on very actively and that's working together to accelerate reforms Obviously, there's lots to do there support the development of key infrastructure That's absolutely necessary for ukraine to take advantage of its Expertise and capabilities as well as its natural resources so to improve for example the ability to export Items to unlock new tools Whether those tools are things like war risk insurance or maritime insurance, but also tools like The ukrainian government is i think the best e-government system in the world that i've seen I think surpassing estonia and Their population is using their services the capacity to take what are national services and bring them to the local level I think is huge potential and frankly Some of us in the western world could learn a lot from those systems And frankly, I wish my dmv ran like your dmv if you will But also There's an effort to reintegrate veterans and refugees is absolutely essential and then finally on on the sprint if you will This notion of russia must pay and doing the work now Among the g7 countries among the relevant parties who have assets Russian sovereign assets it's important to do that work now. It's hard. It's complicated. It's difficult and we need to work You know Get all the lawyers and all the various governments and all the parties really to come together to sort that through And then I think the marathon and the opportunity there are six You know, there are a number of sectors in ukraine that are obvious Sources of opportunity whether it's in agriculture, whether it's in the defense industry Whether it's in critical minerals and mining whether it's in energy transportation and logistics Or or their it and tech sector You don't have to work very hard for those sectors to really become soaring opportunities. So I think this notion of Reconstruction has many dimensions to it and many things we can focus on now Now tim, I know you focused on and you were telling me about the tiny NGOs that are doing work today You know, I think there's a huge Thing to focus on that's going on that also makes ukraine's reconstruction very special There is a local and Individual efforts that are going on that are incredibly impressive And whether it's SMEs, whether it's local authorities, whether it's tiny NGOs that are doing work And that ingenuity that creativity that it's it's not just happening on the battlefield It's also happening in reconstruction and that's those are those are capabilities that need to be built upon So on on that human question before we get to mr Yeremak who's going to have the last word I wanted to to ask european colleagues As to reflect on something which mr Yeremak already mentioned by the way Which is the human element So for me the question what have we learned in the last two years? I think one of the things that a lot of us have learned was There are quite a quite a large number of quite extraordinary ukrainians in quite a number of fields Which I don't think we really I mean in fairness I think very few of us appreciated that whether it's from you know from the battlefield to the academy There there are so many capable ukrainians across so many professions and so many disciplines so many walks of life But Millions of them are now not in ukraine Millions of them are now in european union Countries and very often it's those particular people who ukraine needs to have come back And it's not just an economic question. It's also a it's also a question. I mean if you'll forgive the word It's also a question of genocide Because if russia's war aim is to make the ukrainian population as small and as little ukrainian and as dispersed as possible Millions of ukrainians leaving the country and not coming back is also a military and so to speak a moral victory for russia So i'm wondering if any thought has been given to the question of How I mean it obviously these are complicated processes involving families and children and so on but it seems to me that With reconstruction must come probably some formal explicit mechanisms Which incentivize people or help people to make that transition back to ukraine? I don't think it's going to happen on its own and so I just wanted to briefly ask european colleagues if thought has been given to that Not really. I mean there is no this reflection yet in europe because we are very much focused On on the very urgent needs of the war and giving protection to the people But I think that if the war doesn't go Forever, let's say if it's within a certain scope of time ukrainians will Prefer and will rather than the experience of the ones that we have in spain almost 200 000 They want to go back to their country if they have the choice There will be certain motivation anyway to to come back to ukraine after the war and I think that The reconstruction of ukraine and especially this policy to build back better I think will have Give the a lot of opportunities to young people And I just can only can support and confirm what you said regarding that talents of ukrainian people because we have about 50 000 ukrainians in luthania And I noticed that many of them learned luthinian language with this which is pretty complicated in six seven months And it was not a case As during the soviet times the russian population they could not learn luthinian language in 30 years So probably it's not only the matter of talent. Of course, this is a matter of motivation But I think that Having in mind that it will be the country of opportunity After the war Finish, I think there will be of course motivation to come back But of course the labor market and all the environment and legal framework Should be prepared for return of ukrainian people And i am believer that the future of ukraine is bright Yeah I taking all those points. I can't help but think that when the time comes Of course, the time is not yet But when the time comes it may help to have a formal mechanism At the eu level just to Give people a way to do it timing and perhaps an an incentive Because from the point of view of individual member states, I mean turning what some of you said a slightly different way It is awfully useful to have lots of ukrainians in your country Poland for example runs almost I'm looking for polls in the audience runs almost entirely on ukrainians at this point, right? So it's it's it's very easy. I now notice too is polish in the crowd when I said that But it's it's very easy to take this excellence and make it your own And without really noticing this has happened. Okay. I've made my point and I've left the last five minutes for Mr. Yermak whose whose question is A very broad one What must change in geopolitics for this war to come to the kind of end which it should come And what was what must we be careful to preserve in ukrainian politics and society So that that victory will be meaningful. These are broad questions And please feel free to pick up on whatever points were raised along the way Thank you very much. I in beginning I'd like to make some short reactions. You ask For our european friends as we also europeans I a little bit That's a good remark You know Very concretely if now We will receive additional Air defense to our country Which we discussed In each meetings and the presidents the leaders Of the country and the level of the ministers Our people will continue to back And of course, you know this war one of these Lessons of the of many ukrainians that the best to live in the country in which you were And maybe why when the millions Have to Go in the beginning of this invasion. Maybe before they don't so deeply understand how They love country And that's the biggest chances they have in ukraine In the same time, I'd like to start to answer to your questions for say Very big grateful for all our friends partners for everything which done and in doing To help to to support ukraine And now you know that Franklin Roosevelt some Many years ago said that the World peace it's can't be the work of one man one party of one country It's mean that the most important that this unity Absolutely Historical unity of the world of the democratic free world around ukraine ukraine will be continued and of course We need this help We need this help in time and thank you for friends and colleague that they are deeply understand that During these two years Just during the last years. We show that we able not just to defend We're able to win And I'd like Repeat that just during this period of time Practically more than 60 600 days of these invasions We already occupied 50 more than 50 percent of our territory We practically Destroyed any Dominations of the russian fleets in the black sea Against the many conversations. We open new corridors of the of the grains Which successfully work? We not go for the any compromise for the black males from the russian side Of course, it's this unity of our partners and friends the same time For us, it's very important and this is the one of the priority of the president Zelensky to keep the unity internal in country because This is one of the our very strong arguments and very strong Weapons in this world And of course, I think that it's necessary After these two years The ukrainian's fighting and the brave bravery of ukrainian people show Very important. I think for many many years things That it's possible in our world Be really independent. It's possible not afraid It's possible to defend your values your principles And now it's necessary to finish this job And we are ready to do it We are really have the all possibility our people not tired Yes, two years. It's a lot of times, but we still very high motivated because we fighting for our lands And you know the support of the world which I saw the two days ago During the very successful meetings here. Thank you, swedish lands Of the national security advisors in which presents 82 countries It's one more confirmation and this is first Meetings we started from Little bit more than 20 countries now. It was practically the numbers of the Security council and it's from any continents I think we need be together. We need believe Not hesitated believe Continuous support And I absolutely Confident i'm sure that ukraine will win and it will be Common victory of all independent all free world and for and Make a very clear signal democracy Win will win against Dictators It's kind of you. Mr. Yerimak to to remember to to thank partners and and it's and we appreciate Of course that you say that but I want to end by just noting that we actually owe you much more than you Oh us and it's really incumbent upon us to thank you for doing all the things that we wouldn't be able to do without you And that's a note on which I'd like to close Thank you very much all participants for for taking part. Thank you very much for being here