 Welcome everyone, and thank you for joining us for this edition of Conversation with a Shipmate. I am MC2 Lori Bentz alongside Lieutenant Bushan Mann, and we are here today with the Chief of Naval Operations Admiral Jonathan Greenert and Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy Mike Stevens. Good afternoon, gentlemen, and thank you for joining us here in the nation's capital. Good afternoon. Good afternoon. As you both have stated in the last week, many sailors are continuing to do good things, and that you don't believe that we have an ethics problem in the Navy. As ethics will continue to be discussed in the media and amongst our shipmates, what now is the focus on? Well, a small correction. I do believe we have an ethics problem, but I don't think we have an epidemic or a wave or that we're reeling or that we're out of control with regard to ethical behavior or the behavior of our sailors. You hit the nail on the head. There are hundreds of thousands of sailors and civilians who are doing a magnificent job out there in the Navy, and our statistics show it. And what I mean by that is we track conduct, behavior, we track ethical accusations, if you will, and those that are under investigation, and all of those facts and figures show that in fact conduct is a little better than it has been over the last five years. But the point is, you've hit the nail on the head again on that it is out there in the public. And we have to be sure that the public understands that we take integrity and ethical behavior and our character very seriously. We owe that to the public. And so that's what I'm talking about. It's kind of, hey, everybody, remember who we are and what our foundation is. Everybody. And integrity underwrites it all. Mythod? Yeah, you know, integrity is a core fundamental aspect of our core values, of honor, courage, and commitment. Whenever a sailor, any sailor violates our core values, then you could say, we could say, we have a problem. And then that problem needs to be addressed. And that's what we're doing right now. We're addressing the problem. You know, I completely agree with CNO that I don't see this as a systemic issue across the Navy. I speak for the Navy. But we do have a problem, and we need to get after it. CNO, your vantage point from where you sit is completely different from my vantage point or even Lieutenant Mann. Explain to us where you think we stand with ethnic violations. Well, we have a few people who have made some poor choices. And so it's high visibility, cheating in the nuclear power enterprise. That's an issue, all right? And Admiral Richardson was very clear whenever he and I spoke to the press on where he stood on that and he's taking action accordingly. We've had these issues before in the nuclear power enterprise, and I'm sure that he knows exactly what he's doing in that regard. We are looking into the nuclear weapons enterprise. We have no accusations in that regard, but there have been some across the Department of Defense. And we want to be sure that our folks, again, understand integrity, performance, telling the truth, never lying, cheating or stealing, that it underwrites all that we do. So my vantage point is we've got to be sure, as Mick Ponds said, that everyone out there, let's stop here and take a deep breath. Remember what we are about and what underwrites. Again, I keep saying that in the foundation of all that we do. Imagine any doubt going into the Hornet pilot who's sitting there getting ready to go from zero to 165 miles an hour that somebody out there is going to say exactly the truth of what is going on. Imagine somebody wondering before we dive the submers of the submarine if the rig for dive is completely done and that everybody has done exactly what they want to do. Imagine the public even wondering if a pre-critical check-off on a nuclear propulsion plan, a nuclear reactor, that there would be any doubt that everybody tells exactly the truth. And lastly, imagine somebody putting on a parachute and wondering if the parachutist put this thing together right and when they signed their name. There would be any doubt as to their integrity. CNI, we're going to get into that trust factor in a little bit. But I want to go back to this conversation that we want to keep on going, that we want to move forward. And we want to have that across both enlisted in the officer ranks. The behavior we're seeing is crossing both sides as well. However, there's going to be folks that are watching this right now and may seem reluctant to talk about it. How would you offer that they do that? How do we promote this conversation to happen out there in the fleet? Well, generally it would begin with a senior confronting a junior saying, well, let's have a conversation about it. But any junior sailor, if they are wondering about a tough decision, they should ask. Ask the chief. J.O.s, you should ask your captain. Captains should be talking, having these conversations on the bridge. There's right and wrong and a lot of that is just right up front. Always tell the truth, never lie, cheat or steal. But sometimes ethical decisions can be tough. So when we got together the last time, we talked about books. I have another one for you. I read this book many, many years ago and it was called, How Good People Make Tough Choices, Living Ethically. And it's a great book, you'll find it out there online. It's a thin book, so it's worthy of a read. And it's cases of how to think your way through in cases of ethical violations and people are going to be tempted. So we've got to have these conversations. It's part of leadership training. McPunt, what advice do you have for that sailor who is faced with challenging an unethical situation? Yeah, that's a good question and can be a tough one. I would like to start by saying two things. One is, we have to recognize all of us that it cannot be ignored. That when you've identified an issue involving ethics, specifically what we're talking about right now is integrity. You must take action. You cannot turn a blind eye. But I also recognize this from personal experience is that it's not always easy. As a matter of fact, most of the time it's not easy to address it because oftentimes it involves a friend, a close shipmate of yours. It can involve a senior leader. And so how you address that, how you formulate a plan of action can be very important for you in order for you to address it correctly. So I would offer this advice. If you see something and you know that it needs to be addressed and it's not a safety issue, it's not something that needs to be handled right now this very moment in time because some things we need to handle right now. But if it's something that you can talk to a trusted advisor, a mentor, a supervisor, a friend, might even be a family member. I know I talk to Teresa about things all the time. She is one of my most trusted advisors. I would say take that opportunity, have that conversation. Think about how you want to address it because sometimes you only get one chance to do it and you want to get it as right as you possibly can that first time. So that would be my advice to our shipmates out there because I'm sure as we sit here and have this conversation, there are sailors out there right now that are listening to us talk and they're thinking to themselves, you know what? I know of something, but I just don't know how to address it. So to those shipmates, have a conversation with someone you trust, figure out how you want to address it, but most importantly, don't ignore it. We can't ignore it. So you know, just based on what the McPon just said, what would you then say to a department head or CO in terms of having that conversation? McPon just gave the sound advice. I mean, we are all people. I mean, you can put stuff on our collar devices and you can give us rank and you can give us, you know, positions, but in the end, we're all humans and we are prone to make mistakes. We have anxieties and we have doubts. You have to sit down and talk it through. My advisor is darling, my wife is, he's got Teresa and anybody that's married and has a head on their shoulders would know that's what you do. You talk to your spouse about those things in life. I mean, they're your soulmates. Similarly, department heads and COs, you gotta talk it through, you gotta have mentors and that's what they're for. Find the mentor or if you're somebody that should be a mentor, find the person that mentor and then as the McPon said, have the conversation. Ethical decisions can be difficult. You know, it's not always, you know, truth or false, true or false or you know, or truth or lie, but those things we've talked about those and that's okay. You know, have that conversation. It's okay to have that doubt. See, you know, you touched on earlier about the public and what I want to ask you is across the services, as more allegations come out of unethical behavior, you can run into this sort of the peril of a tarnished reputation. Do you see the Navy as having an issue in the public right now? We might. I don't know and I don't detect it at this point, but what is of concern to me is that we don't and that if people are wondering that we assure them that they shouldn't worry about that. We assure them that once again, integrity is the foundation of what we're about. We won't tolerate a loss of integrity. We will hold those responsible, accountable. We take it very seriously and watch our actions, watch what we'll do. Ask us, so what are you doing about it and see to it that it is in the fiber in our existence. It's our ethos. We raise our right hand and take the oath. We talked about that the last time we got together and the importance of that and that's how we got here in, if you will, the good graces of the public. I think we all understand that the public holds us in fairly high regard. Those of us that serve wear the cloth of the nation. Hey, there's responsibility in that and we'll stand up to it because that's what we're about. McPawn, do you think this is affecting the sailors, the ones who are doing the right thing? You know, I know a lot of what I know is a lot of what you know and that's what we read, right? And if one was to just solely believe everything that you read in the social media and other mediums that we communicate by, you could come to the conclusion that the public thinks that we have a problem, but I agree with the CNO. That hasn't necessarily been what the public has been communicating back to us. I don't believe it's trust that's been lost and I don't believe our sailors feel that that trust has been lost. I believe that our sailors who interact with friends and family and people that they know in the public understand that people still trust them, will continue to trust them, but they also understand that trust can be a fragile thing and that we all need to continue to work hard to maintain that trust. Can I get to, Sean, you asked me a question, just the same question, what is the public feel and how do our sailors feel about that? I think it's incumbent upon us and I will take this for action to show our sailors what are the facts. In other words, how many courts, marshals do we have? How many masks do we have? Do we have a lot of people being put on report? Are DUIs up? Alcohol-related incidents? It goes on and on. The statistics will show that, no, they are not rising and in fact most are creeping down. We've been at this, I think all of you know, for a while, but that's only part of the issue here. The facts being what they are, what's the perception and what do our people believe? Our sailors and our families and our civilians. Our sailors know that we have a problem and we're addressing it, but I don't believe that they should let this in any way define them and who they are. We trust our sailors. We believe that the vast, vast majority of them are doing the right thing every single day and we will get through this. We will work hard together and we will tackle this issue. So Sienna, do you believe that the media or the perception of the public is creating a certain culture within the Navy as having that ethical failure or having that culture of allowing these problems to continue? No, I don't. Culture to me means it is an action or behavior that goes throughout an organization or an institution, so I don't think we see that at all. I would certainly hope that we're interesting. I mean the fact that that's the fact of the matter. We would be all of us and again, when you have a public that holds anything in high regard, they watch it. They expect things from it. If it has issues or occasional failures, that is newsworthy and we are seeing that. On the other hand, now it will watch it and expect it. That would be us to respond to that and that's what we're talking about here today. But I would hope that there's not sweeping through and I do not detect this, the ranks of sailors out there, a feeling of hanging my head because I'm in an organization that has a sweeping and a reeling and you pick your words epidemic of ethical failures. That's just not the case. I don't believe it, but perhaps more importantly, the statistics do not show it. And if I may chime in, let me ask you, if you have a sailor out there that's sitting there and he's saying, come on, I know what really goes on here and I'm not going to be a rat. That's what they call it, where I come from, where I grew up. I don't want to be a rat and rat out some bad game and that's going on a stage or a rat. So what do you say to that sailor? You know, that's reality. I can appreciate a sailor who's thinking that because I've thought the same thing before, but as I stated earlier, this goes to who we are as sailors. This goes to trust. This is in our DNA. We cannot ignore those sorts of things. We have a duty, a sworn duty and a responsibility to address it. Now let me say that not every ethical violation requires us to run it up the flagpole, the chain of command. Sometimes there's something going on that you can just have a conversation with your friend, with your shipmate and say, hey, you know, maybe you, maybe we should rethink this. This probably isn't the right way to do it or this is something that we shouldn't allow ourselves to get caught up in. I think when we talk about this sometimes, we instantly think that this is a subject that reaches the highest levels of attention or discipline because what's really brought this to the forefront is something that's pretty serious. But sometimes it's, I don't want to use the word minor because ethical behavior is always serious, but it can be handled sometimes with a one-on-one conversation. And I would say that that's probably the best approach that you can take if at all possible. So you're not ratting your buddy out, you're not, you know, throwing them under the bus, so to speak, you're actually helping them get away from this type of behavior, this type of conduct and to allow them to be successful. You know, the issue done at Charleston, the cheating on examinations, a sailor was offered an opportunity to use an examination that was, you know, violated, if you will, and chose not to. Made that decision, simply no, I don't, first of all, I didn't need it. They weren't under that much anxiety and chose not to do it. So, I mean, that stopped what had been, you know, an ongoing issue. And so there, it doesn't all involve, as the mick pond said, snitching on anybody or turning anybody in. And again, we all have anxieties and hesitations about it. But I think as mick pond said, most all of these can be handled at lower levels. And that's the, that tends to be the beauty of our military culture. You can handle things in a chain of command that can be dealt with. And the sooner, the better, and the sooner, the less egregious the issue becomes. It's a slippery slope when we go down and deceive. There's a lot of cliches, we won't go through them all, tangled web, you know, et cetera. But I think we all agree, if you can get it done at a lower level, do it, and everybody feels better, and it goes away. I know the last time we were here, we spoke about leadership. How does leadership play into creating an environment where ethics, morality, integrity is key to the success of a command? Well, leadership has to be approachable to do, to have such a conversation. The mick pond alluded to it before. Understand that everybody has anxieties. We are humans. And leaders should expect, anticipate mistakes. And I underline mistakes. And that's fine. People who mean well and make mistakes, that's okay. You come forward and describe that and have that conversation. So leadership has to be open to that, to that self-correction. And we can do that. Siano, you spoke with a shipmate in Guam recently. That episode can be found at navy.mil. You mentioned wonder of trust. Tell us how significant is trust amongst shipmates? And how does this affect a mission? Well, I just try to imagine you get everybody gets on a steel vessel and goes out to sea. If they don't all trust one another, you're going to drown. I mean, when you think about it, you're going to starve. You're going to run out of fuel, then you'll eventually starve. And then eventually, you're all going to drown one way or the other. So as crazy as that sounds, there is an element that's absolutely full of trust right there. But we fly airplanes. We all get together and go up in an airplane. You absolutely have to trust the pilots and they have to trust everybody in the aircrew. Submarine, I mentioned just earlier, a tactical aircraft, any aircraft, taking off an aircraft carrier. That's probably the classic example of the shooter waving his fingers, going around, looking for that thumbs up or not, stopping as soon as it's there because you believe and you understand. And sometimes, I know, you say, I'm not sure. And that's perfectly fine. So that's the essence of what we're about, ultimate trust in each other. And again, not too much drama, but it is all about survivability and lives are at stake. So if we lose that trust, if we don't have that integrity, I get concerned that you get on a slope. You say, oh, come on, Siano. We're talking small stuff here, a little lie. I say, yeah, okay, but where does that stop? And are you sure? Because once you get, we all know that once you get it embedded in you, and you say, well, I got away with that one, then when does it stop? Or how can you be so smart to know that whatever that log was that you made, didn't check that gauge, was not the one that makes the difference? I honestly don't know. And I've been in the Navy a long time. So that's the underlying piece for me. McPond, you're well-traveled. You're well-respected in this Navy. I think if you're out on that aircraft carrier and you ask that airman about that F-18, he or she will explain, well, it's my plane. So how far does that trust go, just sort of using that adage? Well, it just so happens, you know, C&O and I have spent the better part of our careers in a profession like many, as a matter of fact, like most of our sailors, that it's inherently dangerous, where we have to have the absolute trust in the people that were around. I was a helicopter crew chief for a long time. And every time we got in that aircraft and went flying we had to have absolute, complete, unquestioned trust in the work that our sailors did on that aircraft and in the pilots that were flying that aircraft. Because one mistake could possibly mean that you weren't coming home. So it wasn't, to me, something you just talked about. It was something that you lived. It was something that was a part of everything you did every single day. And we have sailors out there in a variety of fields that place that same trust in the people that they're around every single day. And so as the C&O said, it's who we are. It's part of our core. Without trust, one could argue we don't exist as a Navy. You said something about leadership. With your permission, can I come back and talk about something about leaders? Thank you. Appreciate that bit, Mr. Ben. One thing that I talk with our sailors about, in particular my cheese mess, in my zeroing in on excellence initiative, under good order and discipline, for leaders, if you want your sailor, our sailors, to do the right thing, then we have to do the right thing. Because in many respects, a sailor will become who you are. And so if you want integrity to be a part of their culture, a part of who they are, then it has to be a part of who you are. So more than what we say often, it's what we do. And so our sailors are watching us all pay grades. Our sailors are watching us, they're watching what we do. And they will emulate us in many ways. So I say to our sailors out there and to my chiefs in particular, if we want them to do the right thing, then do the right thing and they will become it. Is that a challenge that you face your chiefs whenever you speak with them? You know, I wouldn't say it's a challenge to them. This is something that they know. This is something they remind me of. And this is something that I remind them of, because this is a collaborative effort. I simply don't have the monopoly on integrity, nor does anyone. So it's a constant conversation and a dialogue. And so we go back and forth with this. And it's important that we remind one another. So we do understand that this conversation does not end here. It is a conversation that is going to continue every day. And our sailors are going to be faced with situations that they are not sure how to deal with. And as leaders out there, the chiefs, the officers, they, as you said, they have to be prepared to deal with certain mistakes or certain challenges that a sailor might bring to them. Is there anything else, any advice you want to give our sailors to help them understand how important it is to trust each other and to have that integrity, to step up, have that honor and courage and commitment to say something when they do see something wrong? Well, I would say I don't think anybody knows when their challenge to, if you will, tell the truth, the absolute, make that decision to express a doubt or say, let me, sir, I need to talk to you about this and then get it right. They will know that that isn't, if you will, a life changing or life saving event. I just say we don't have that choice and we can't pick and choose. It gets to that slippery slope. So embrace it as part of your life because it goes beyond the Navy. But certainly in your time in the Navy, they learn to trust your shipmate. And that's the definition of shipmate now, isn't it? Somebody that you absolutely trust. You know if this subject was easy, we wouldn't be having this conversation. It's been a challenge for mankind since our existence. But it's important and that's why it's important that we always talk about it and we maintain an open and robust dialogue and that we lead by example. You know what I'd like our sailors to know is that through my career, I have and I continue to trust them. I trust them with my life. Wasn't that long ago that CNO and I flew out to one of our ships for Thanksgiving? Yeah, I remember that. You know, we caught the wire and we took a catch shot and we probably wouldn't have got on that plane if there was doubt. But we have, I have the trust in our sailors to do those sorts of things and I will continue to do those sorts of things. So to them, I want them to know that I trust them and also to understand this. This is something that they own, that they control, that they make the decision. No one can tell you to have integrity or not to have integrity. You make that decision. We can remind sailors the importance of integrity and the role that it plays in the trust that we have in them and how we function as a navy. Thanks for doing that. He's right. Nobody can take your integrity away. You give it up. Thank you, gentlemen. Thank you so much for talking with us and giving us a deeper understanding of what is expected. I mean, if there was any doubt in the fleet on what the expectation was on ethical character, there should be no question at this point, you know, on your courage, commitment, being leaders, guiding, trusting each other to do the right thing. And I know sailors are going to be talking about this even more because now we understand it more. And I thank you, Lieutenant, for joining me here today so we can talk. We needed to talk about what is being said, what is being written about our navy. I call it my navy, too, even though I'm just a baby in the navy. It's still my navy and I shouldn't have to wonder if I can trust my leaders or my shipmates. Thank you so much. You're welcome. It's great to be here. And this is just the start. We have more to talk about. It is a long journey on this and we'll have to continue to work it. Thank you. You're welcome. Thanks. Thank you, Siano. Thank you, McPon, for being here today. And thank you, Lieutenant, for joining us. Thank you. And we want to thank you for joining us for another edition of Conversation with a Shipmate. Be sure to log on and watch the entire series on the Siano's leadership page at navy.mil and follow this conversation on Twitter at hashtag SianoGreenert. Thanks for tuning in. I'm MC2, Laurie Bent. We'll see you next time for Conversation with a Shipmate.