 We have no time in hand, so we have to be very strict with speeches." I'm being told by the first speakers that I can't find my glasses. On diwylliannw y gŵr, ond'i sefyllfa yn cyffredin. 1, 2, 4, 8— On diwylliannw'r cyffredin. I'll try to find my glasses. I'll easily lend you my glasses if you want. I don't know if that would be. Oh, you've got them, that's fine. I'm delighted to have the opportunity to open this stage 3 debate on the housing amendment Scotland bill. I'd first of all like to take this opportunity to once again thank both the convener and the members of the local government committee for their careful scrutiny of the bill to date. The cross-party support that the bill continues to receive is very much welcomed. I've been clear all along that the bill is a short but essential measure, one that is necessary because of the decision by the Office for National Statistics to classify registered social landlords as public sector bodies in the national accounts. It will amend a number of the powers that the Scottish housing regulator can exercise over RSLs, while also providing ministers to limit local authorities' power over housing associations. If the classification decision by the ONS was left unchanged, the Scottish Government would face significant financial consequences, with all-new net borrowing by RSLs, which have previously been counted as private borrowing, now counting against the Scottish Government's borrowing limit, effectively adding £1.5 billion to our £3 billion housing investment programme. The stage 1 debate showed clear agreement from within the chamber that should we take no action to ensure that RSLs are reclassified back to the private sector, then we would be putting this Government's commitment to deliver 50,000 new affordable homes at risk. That is a risk that we simply cannot take. As well as support from within the chamber, I am delighted that stakeholders have also recognised the need for the bill and supported its general principles. We continue to work in partnership with key organisations, including the Scottish Federation of Housing Associations, the Glasgow and West of Scotland Forum of Housing Association and UK Finance, which has greatly assisted us in developing a focus bill that addresses the matter at hand. You may recall during the stage 1 debate that I confirmed that the Scottish Government would bring forward an amendment, providing for the regulation-making powers at sections 8 and 9 of the bill to expire three years after the bill receives royal assent. By way of background, section 8 of the bill gives ministers the power to make further modifications to the functions of the SHR beyond those that the bill makes. I have been clear that we would only exercise the power in section 8 if, when the bill is enacted, the ons were to conclude formally that the changes to the Scottish housing regulator's functions are not enough to enable it to reclassify RSLs back to the private sector. Section 9 is different in that we know that we will need to use the power that it confers before the ons can review the classifications of RSLs, enabling ministers to make regulations limiting or removing the influence that local authorities may exert over RSLs through any ability that they may have to appoint officers or to exercise certain voting rights. Subject to approval from the chamber today to pass the bill for royal assent, we expect that section 9 regulations will be laid before Parliament in early September. While such regulation-making powers are a sensible precaution, we took on board the concerns of stakeholders, the Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee and the Local Government and Communities Committee, who expressed concerns at the open-ended nature of the provisions. I'm therefore delighted that the Local Government and Communities Committee agreed unanimously on 9 May to the sunset clause amendment. That brings us to today's important debate. I thank the Parliament once again for the opportunity to speak about the Housing Amendment Scotland Bill and the crucial role that it will play in ensuring that we can deliver our ambitious affordable housing programme. I look forward to hearing the views of other members on that important issue, and it therefore gives me great pleasure to move that the Parliament agrees that the Housing Amendment Scotland Bill be passed. I now call in game Simpson to open the Conservatives. Mr Simpson, five minutes please. Thank you very much. I certainly don't intend to speak for five minutes. This is a technical and uncontroversial bill, but it is important, dare I say, vital to the social housing sector that this is passed. If this bill does not go through, then it would make it extremely difficult for housing associations to deliver their part in meeting the Government's affordable homes target. Housing associations were classed as private bodies for accounting purposes until the Office for National Statistics decided to change their status to public bodies. The effect of that, though, is that any borrowing they do counts against the Scottish Government's borrowing limits, which in turn means that the Government might have to limit what RSLs can borrow, and that would not be good. To get over this hurdle, you need to reclassify RSLs as private sector bodies, and consequently it is then necessary to loosen the powers of the housing regulator over them. The effect of the bill will be that housing associations will enjoy more freedoms and be able to deliver more. Briefly, the bill narrows the powers of the regulator to appoint a manager to a housing association and to remove, suspend and appoint officers. It removes the need for the regulator's consent to the disposal of land and housing assets by an RSL, any changes to the constitution of an RSL and the voluntary winding up, dissolution and restructuring of an RSL, while protecting tenants' rights to be consulted about certain changes. It provides Scottish ministers with regulation-making powers to limit the influence that a local authority has over an RSL. There was, as the minister has said, only one amendment to the bill at stage 2, adding a three-year sunset clause to ministers' regulation-making powers under sections 8 and 9. This was in response to concerns that the local government and communities committee, the delegated powers and law reform committee and bodies such as UK finance had raised about the open-ended nature of the powers. That shows how uncontroversial this has been. The sector wants it and needs it. Parliament, I believe, wants it. We should proceed here today without any fuss, and I am well under five minutes. I intend to sit down. Well, nobody is pressing you to stand any lower than necessary, Mr Simpson. Mark Griffin, you can have a generous four minutes, if you wish. Thank you. I think that we have moved on to the bill debate without any amendments. This afternoon, and this, too, will be a short and agreeable debate that shows how much this is an uncontroversial and sensible bill. To protect the provision of affordable and social housing in Scotland, Labour will, of course, be voting for the bill at decision time. Let me take the chance to thank the parliamentary clerks, professionals across the registered social landlord sector and SFHA in particular, for helping the bill to progress so smoothly. I also thank the minister and the local government committee, including my colleagues Elaine Smith, Monica Lennon and Alex Rowley, who have worked on the bill the past few months. On paper, we are changing how housing associations are regarded for the purpose of national accounts. Although the effect of today's bill is fairly minor at first glance, it is clear to me that the issue at the debate is a thoughtful one about the ownership of housing and how the system is structured to protect social and public housing. By legislating to protect the future of social and cooperative housing, we are again working to support Scotland's efforts to tackle poverty by building 50,000 more affordable homes. During the stage 1 debate, my colleague Elaine Smith remarked how she is not naturally drawn to reclassifying a body from the public to the private sector. I think that most of us would take that position too, although we accept that we must legislate in order to protect both the Scottish budget and the ability of RSLs to build desperately needed new homes. I think that it is because of Brexit and universal credit that RSLs face new challenges to secure debt and build those 50,000 affordable homes, so adding the risk of not acting would simply be the wrong thing to do. The bill would not only change the status of RSLs but also change the powers of the regulator, in particular to intervene in struggling RSLs and to access information in March. Andy Wightman rightly spoke about the need to better involve tenants in RSLs. If an RSLs have been run well with tenants and not for tenants, they should have absolutely nothing to fear. However, there is still more work to make sure that tenants, the regulator and local representatives can speak up and get the information that they need to challenge management or intervene. Given that we have begun a thoughtful debate about ownership, perhaps we need to think more fully about how tenant participation has improved or housing associations report. Although lenders will require clear accountability from RSLs, it is welcomed that SFHAs have committed to maintaining current standards and that the Government moves towards freedom of information. The bill has allowed some space for more debate about the housing sector and long may that continue. However, for today, I encourage members to support the bill so that RSLs can get on with playing their part in building those 50,000 homes, which is what is vitally important if we want to tackle poverty and solve Scotland's housing crisis. Thank you very much, Mr Griffin. I call Andy Wightman to open for the green party. Mr Wightman is also a generous four minutes. Thank you very much, Presiding Officer. I thank the minister and my colleagues in the local government committee for scrutinising the bill. It is fair to say that it has not been the most challenging piece of legislation to scrutinise, and we have done our job well. It is our first piece of legislation on the committee. I think that the next piece of legislation on the planning bill will present somewhat different challenges. Yes, this is a technical bill. As I said at stage 1, at that time I agree entirely with the minister's remarks in his opening statement. For the second time, I can also say that I agree entirely with the opening remarks of the minister. I also agree with Graham Simpson's remarks as well. We will be voting for this bill at decision time. I did not rehearse the reasons why, but I want to use the next couple of minutes to reflect further on what we need to do to secure the human rights to affordable warm homes that everyone is entitled to. As I observed at stage 1, collective provision of housing has a very long history. In Edinburgh, for example, the Edinburgh Cooperative Building Company was established in 1861, made up of workers from many different trades, including stone masons, joiners, plasterers and plumbers. The poor state of housing in the old town and soaring prices in the new town meant that Edinburgh artisans were in desperate need of good, quality and affordable housing, so the Edinburgh Court of Building Company set about building their first colonies at Glenogle Park in Stockbridge, and the 11 terraces were completed between 1861 and 1872. Indeed, I think that some members of this place and certainly the House of Commons live there. Offering an alternative to traditional tenement accommodation in the colonies were intended to be flats that felt like houses, so each family would have their own front door and garden, and the co-operative nature of the... Mr Wightman agree with me that it is good to see the likes of the Port of Leith Housing Association develop new colony housing in the Leith Fort area. Indeed, I have visited that and it is very impressive. It underscores the need to have much much more public-led development of affordable housing to a high standard with good design. The co-operative nature of the building company is reflecting the motive, a beehive, the fact that workers could buy shares in the company and the dividends of which could be put towards purchasing a house. Over the past 150 years, there have been many other examples of co-operation. Housing associations themselves have played an important role in the housing stories since the recognition of housing associations in the Housing Scotland Act 1974. In a debate like that, it is important to acknowledge the good work of housing associations, particularly rural social landlords such as Lochaber Housing Association and Waverly in the Scottish Borders, as well as the many urban organisations. Although today we affirm the value and validity of housing associations as private organisations, we should also be mindful of the need to broaden out the debate on how to provide affordable homes, reflecting, in part, on the history of the co-operative movement and housing. We need to resurrect the co-operative principles of the past to refresh for the modern era by making the legislative policy and fiscal changes to promote them, as well as other models such as co-housing. As Mark Griffin pointed out, we need full democratic involvement of tenants in housing associations and council housing. In the private sector as well—this is important—we need radical reform. In Sweden, for example, the Swedish tenants union collectively bargain with landlords across the whole of Sweden over the rents of 1.4 million tenants. That is the kind of gold standard for tenant participation and rent regulation that we should be aspiring to in this country. Those are the kind of next steps that we need, and I look forward to engaging with members on that kind of debate over the next couple of years. Meanwhile, I agree with the general principles of the housing amendment Scotland bill, and Greens will be voting for it at decision time. It was a privilege to be convener of local government committees. The bill made its way through the committee stage within the Scottish Parliament. I thank my fellow committee members, and all who give evidence to the committee, including Mr Stewart, as minister of the constructive and collegiate way that we approached the rather technical bill. However, legislation has to be passed. Otherwise, as we have heard, the Office of National Statistics would have reclassified RSLs in taking the Scottish Government's maximum borrowing limits permitted from £3 billion to £4.5 billion. Something because of the constraints of the current devolution settlement would simply be illegal to do. Cuts elsewhere would be required to be made, and it would impact, as we have heard among other things, our 50,000 affordable homes target. That is just factual. The bill also has to limit the power of intervention by the housing regulator. It has to limit the presence of local authorities and influence over registered social landlords. I am glad to see that it has to now have a sunset clause, because we do not know whether that will do, as it says in the tin, to pass the legislation, and then the way in which the NS will make a decision. The Scottish Government needs that power to act after the legislation has passed to make sure that we have that right. I am delighted that there is now a sunset clause in relation to that, as well as to limit the Scottish Government's power, so that they are not open-ended. However, just as important, I am delighted that UK finance is very supportive of the legislation. Despite the significant contribution that the Scottish Government makes to investing in social housing across the country, housing associations, registered social landlords still have to go to the commercial sector and borrow money to make up the shortfall to invest in that housing development. It is vital that UK finance has confidence, but we should have confidence that we are registered social landlords, given that those additional freedoms give them the freedom to flourish. I would like to point out ways that they are already doing that, but I should point out, as a constituency MSP, that any constituent of mine's opinion of a social landlord is their last interaction with them. Sometimes tenants only get involved with social landlords when they have an issue. Sometimes we get a slightly nuanced or jaundiced view of registered social landlords in the country, but I am delighted that, in my constituency, there is a significant success story of the wider role of social landlords that they can do more of after the legislation. For example, the freedom to flourish for me means that NG homes in the north of my constituency can continue to invest in something called the Pitch Stops project in partnership with the School of Hard Knocks, which gets people furthest away from the employment market together to do a variety of teamwork efforts using rugby as the thread that runs through the activities that they perform to get them closer to employment and have a huge success in my constituency, or the sports coordinators that they appoint. The Scottish Government does not have to intervene on registered social landlords because they are doing pretty well already, and that is the experience in my constituency. They know their community's best, and that gives them the power to do more of that. For example, the Queens Cross Housing Association in my constituency has identified poverty in the area, not just for tenants but for wider residents, as a real action that they take in the local community to help their community. I could go on at length in relation to the variety of benefits that registered social landlords provide to the various communities. I will not, because I know that we will start to say that we have some time, but let me tell you some more then. Excellent. I think that registered social landlords have to be empowered more to do more in relation to the regeneration of our communities. Royston, for example, Copperworth Housing Association, Spireview Housing Association, Blockheham Housing Association and Glasgow Housing Association are in effect doing a local place plan before they even become a statutory footing under the planning bill in relation to regenerating their communities. They know their community's best, and Carder Housing Association are doing similar in Carder with their emerging Carder vision. I will leave it at that in relation to the good work that Housing Associations are doing, but we have nothing to fear from the bill because registered social landlords are already doing a fantastic job right across my constituency and right across Scotland. The bill is a technical bill to allow them to get on with doing that and making sure that we continue to invest in our communities and our social housing stock the length and breadth of Scotland. It is difficult to see what else can be said in terms of the consensus that is in the chamber with the bill, but I thank the minister and the local government committee for the work that they are doing. As Kevin Stewart said, although it is a technical bill, it is a bill that is absolutely necessary. If we were to lose £1.5 billion or £3 billion investment that is much needed in Scotland, that would create a major difficulty given that we equally all agree that, as Shelter has set out many occasions, there is a housing crisis in Scotland that we need to tackle. I know that the minister is absolutely committed to working with local government to make that happen. Indeed, I was reading this morning the review of the strategic investment plans for affordable housing, which was published by Shelter in February. It suggests that we are on track in building those much-needed houses. I want to highlight that the housing associations—certainly in five, where is my experience—have, as they have built new houses over the last decade, looked at houses that are there for people with specific needs. Housing associations have been good at building specific housing for older people, specific housing for people with disabilities. As we know, the housing crisis is not just about the lackey housing, although that is the key factor. However, it is also that demographics are changing in our country. I thank Mr Riley for giving way. I agree totally that we have got to get the housing right for the needs of people in various areas. I am very pleased that, recently, in Fife and in Cooper, we have seen a new development in the Kingdom Housing Association building larger housing, more bedrooms for larger families and wheelchair-accessible housing. I want to see those schemes right across Scotland. I have made it quite clear that, in terms of subsidy, there will be flexibility in that regard for specialist housing and for those larger homes that are required. Alex Rowley? Absolutely. As Mark Griffin said earlier, although that is a technical bill, it has allowed housing to be debated yet again. There was a time in politics when housing was up there among the key issues, up the agenda, and housing at one point would have been so influential that it could have brought the Government down. Sadly, it slipped back and I think that getting that back up there. The specific needs housing that is built also has a knock-on effect, and that is where we need to look at the types of housing that is being built within the 35,000 social rented housing. I do not know whether others have had that experience, but certainly I have had an experience when doing street surgeries, talking to people who live in large houses that they have brought their family up in, and they then want to move to smaller houses, but the only thing that the council has to offer is flats. Why would you, if you had a house, a back door, a front door, have brought your family up, then, in your later years, move to some kind of flats, some place, in a different way housing and living? The more we can build specific housing for older people, for people with disabilities, we will create a chain reaction that frees up houses for families and you actually get more out of the housing stock. I welcome the bill because it would have been devastating to have lost that investment. We have got that investment. Let us move forward and let us continue to build on the consensus in this Parliament that we should and we will tackle Scotland's housing crisis. Thank you, Mr Rowley. That is the end of the open debate. I call Mark Griffin to close for Labour. I am pleased that today's debate has confirmed that, given confirmation that, if anyone is needed at all, the bill will be passed and that social and co-operative housing will be protected. We have spoken again about the importance of and ownership of housing and are pleased that we have had that discussion. I spoke earlier about our ambition to hit Scotland's affordable housing target to deliver 50,000 homes by the next election. Although we would want to go further than that, the important thing is putting the conditions in place to deliver that number. The technicalities of the bill might be boring, but the legislation secures the Scottish budget and the investment that we can make in affordable housing, while ensuring that RSLs themselves can borrow effectively. The protection of the Scottish budget also ensures that local authorities can secure grants and deliver social housing to Central Scotland. North Lanarkshire Council has set out its plans to deliver 5,000 new homes by 2027. Those homes will provide a warm, safe roof over the heads of Scotland, poor as families but do so affordably. That is why we have to set the right conditions to deliver those homes. Housing associations and co-operatives proceeds can go back into the system, not to landlords or by-to-lenders, and workers in North Lanarkshire across the country will benefit from the boost to jobs. It has been a busy week for housing. The Parliament has begun its debate on the minister's planning bill. The Government has been lobbied to put ambitious finishing touches to the warm homes bill. I dare say that the minister has more vigorous legislative challenges ahead, which are key to delivering those housing targets. However, the bill is just as much as any other piece of legislation that is vital to secure much-needed homes. I am glad that we have set out our agreement to protect part of our housing system today. I now call on Kevin Stewart to wind up if he could keep going till 4.30. I would be most obliged. Mr Simpson has obviously not taken his opportunity to wind up here today. I did not expect to have eight minutes, but I am sure that I can keep going. I do not know if I will wax lyrically, but I will keep going until 4.30. I am grateful to members right across the chamber for their helpful and constructive contributions to the debate. Again, I would like to thank everyone who has been involved in the bill. In some regards, it has been easy for us as parliamentarians to scrutinise the bill. Please give a little thought to my officials who have had to deal with this piece of legislation, which is actually more complex than many would think. Although it is highly technical, it requires a lot of work. I thank my officials for their effort in that regard. I really appreciate the cross-party support. It is going to be easier for me, in this occasion, to put through stage 3. It may well be in the future, but we may have consensus on other things to come. As everyone knows, this Government has a clear and defining reason for making housing a priority. Providing good-quality, warm and affordable homes is vital to create a fairer Scotland, to secure economic growth and to support and create jobs right across our country. At the heart of that, it sets our commitment to deliver 50,000 affordable homes over the course of this parliamentary session, with 35,000 of those for social rent. I will give way to Mr Wightman. A couple of weeks ago, the First Minister confirmed that the Scottish Government's target is to build, and I stress build, 50,000 affordable homes. Is that the minister's understanding and will the report against that target be a report on how many have been built? I want to deliver more than 50,000 affordable homes. I can only do that with the co-operation of local authorities and housing associations. One of the things that I have been known for is a level of flexibility around local authorities meeting the needs in their areas. Some local authorities will buy housing off the shelf, and they will buy back to allow folk to move, and I am not going to stop that flexibility. However, I hope that our £3 billion worth of investment will deliver much more than that 50,000, and that we will see many, many more homes built right across this country, including the housing that Mr Riley mentioned in his speech, housing for varying needs, housing for disabled people, larger homes. Again, I rely on local authorities and housing associations to make good use of their knowledge through housing needs and demand assessments and local housing strategies to deliver for all the people of Scotland. I am really pleased that we had the opportunity to debate some of that last night during Joan McAlpine's member's debates. Those debates, I have to say, are becoming more and more consensual, and I am very pleased that that is the case. During the course of the last parliamentary term, we delivered over 33,000 affordable homes. That was 10 per cent above the 30,000 target. That was a great achievement and one that this Government intends to build on with the co-operation of stakeholders. We are making good progress on our target, as Mr Riley pointed out. The shelter report shows that we are on track, so it is not only me and the Government that is saying that we are on track. Stakeholders are saying that we are on track. However, we cannot be complacent. I will never be complacent in that regard. Recent statistics show that approvals for new housing association homes are up 33 per cent on the previous year, laying the foundations for a pipeline of proposals capable of delivering against the remainder of the 50,000 target by 2020-21. At a local level, there are some really good examples of progress to increase the pace of delivery, the use of public sector land to deliver over 200 affordable homes at the Craig Inches site in Aberdeen, charitable bond donations to deliver homes for social rent, and the expansion of housing association activity into new geographic areas, for example Cunningham housing association moving from the traditional area of Ayrshire into Dumfries and Galloway. Housing associations have joined up with others in order to provide agency support for partners with limited or no development experience. That has allowed more partners who can provide affordable housing to enter the programme and to provide efficient ways of working together to increase affordable housing. Housing associations and councils have also partnered with developers, and Housing Infrastructure Grant has been used to unlock housing development in many parts of the country. All of that is, of course, a testament to the hard work and determination that is shown by the sector, and in particular housing associations, whose role is absolutely pivotal to achieving our challenging target. Their role is not just about providing good-quality housing and services for tenants or building new energy-efficient homes. It is also about creating jobs, supporting vulnerable people and acting as an anchor for some of the most deprived communities in Scotland. I will take Ms Adamson. The minister will remember attending an event at the BREs in Ravenscraig with myself, showing some of the innovations in specialist buildings for people with disabilities and people with dementia. Do you like to expand a little bit on some of those initiatives that are happening? I certainly will, Presiding Officer. That was a very good visit, which showed that it could be done to make a house dementia-friendly. We have got to ensure that we use what we are learning in the likes of BRE and in other places, and ensure that the technologies and knowledge go into homes. That way, we can keep people at home and independent for longer. I am sure that that is something that all of us across the chamber want to see. In summary, Presiding Officer, what is bill is indeed technical in its nature. It makes very important changes that will enable us to continue working towards our ambitious housing targets. I am therefore very hopeful, after hearing the speeches today, that Parliament will pass this bill unanimously come decision time. I hope that our next debate on housing is as consensual as this one. Thank you very much minister. That concludes our stage 3 debate on housing amendment Scotland Bill. It is now time to move on to decision time and there is one question to be put as a result of today's business. The question is that motion 12483, in the name of Kevin Stewart, on the housing amendment Scotland Bill at stage 3, be agreed. Because this is legislation, we shall move to division. Members should cast their votes now. The result of the vote on motion 12483, in the name of Kevin Stewart, is yes 114, no 0, there were no abstentions. The motion is therefore agreed and the housing amendment Scotland Bill is passed. That concludes decision time. I close this meeting.