 Hey everybody, welcome to the Linuxcast. I'm your host, Matthew Weber. I'm joined by Martin Burke. How are you doing, Martin? Doing well, Martin. How's yourself? Another week. You know, it's actually, like the last time we talked it was like negative nine degrees. We had like two feet of snow on the ground. Now it's like 50 degrees. So we're coming on spring, which is making me happy. Yep, so what have you been doing in Linux the last couple weeks, Martin? Not a lot, to be quite truthful. I've had a lot on with work and what not. So I haven't even changed distro. That's how bad it's been. So nothing major to speak about, to be quite truthful of any interest to anyone. So how about yourself? What have you been up to? Well I got a new camera. It doesn't help cheapo from Amazon that I've been having some problems with. Look, apparently there's no camera software for Linux for any webcam ever that I've been able to find. So I've been trying to figure out how to get it to stop autofocusing, which is, it's a weird problem to have. So that's basically what I've been doing. I did switch distros this week, but I ended up right back to where I was. Did you switch to or didn't see? Well I went from, alright, so I was on Manjaro and then I got sick of Manjaro so I decided to go to regular Arch. That did not work very well and then I decided I'd just go back to Arco, which I was on for ages. And I was on that for like two or three days and ended up having some light DM problems. It turned out there's a bug in that. So I decided I was going to install, what did I go to? Some Debian-based distro. I can't even remember. It might have been MX Linux, but I can't remember. I was there for like a couple hours. I missed the AUR too much. And came back to Arco. This is all in the same day by the way. And then I came back to Arco and the bug for light DM was still there. I ended up getting some help from the developers. Ended up switching to SDDM. It was fine. And that's where I'm at now. So it went a gigantic circle. I started on Arco, went through a whole bunch of different distros. I ended up back on Arco. Mind you, interesting you said you were having problems with your webcam. I'd actually reclaimed my webcam that I was using for Zoom meetings and whatnot from my son's computer that runs Windows. Popped it in, stuck up, smile or cheese, whatever it's called on different distros. And I had just a massive line going straight the way down it. And it was literally like, you know, the skateboard videos with a fisheye camera. It was like that because it's a HD wide camera. And it was just like, alright, shall I have a look for some software? And I thought it's going to be a rabbit hole because it is like a Chinese camera. Which unfortunately does work quite well with Windows. No doubt I'll get it working. It was just the line just put me off on the fisheye business with it. But yeah, nice to see someone else having problems like that. I think the camera that I got doesn't even have a brand name. I got out on Amazon and I'm pretty sure that because they have like 2021 HD webcam. It was the name of it. I'm sure it's just parts bin or something. I don't know. Yeah, I think there's probably mine as well. It was webcam and mic. So Linux picked up the mic, no problem. And the camera to be fair, but it was just a picture. I'll get it resolved. Hopefully won't have to use any zoom or anything like that soon. Excellent. Cross user we bear. Alright, so let's jump into the contact information. Contact information info, whatever. You can follow us on Twitter at the Linux cast. I'm at MTW on Twitter. Martin's Martin to you. You can subscribe to us. All of our feeds and social stuff by it going to Linux cast.org. You can contact us via email. The Linux cast at gmail.com. You can also support us on Patreon at patreon.com slash Linux cast. I'd like to take a moment to thank Devon C and Marcus B for being our patrons. And then also don't forget to support us on YouTube and subscribe by going to youtube.com. That's the best Linux cast. We're very, very close to 400 subscribers. So I'm pretty excited about that. Yeah, it's been a pretty good few months. Anyway, so every single week Martin and I choose a news link each. Sometimes it's news, sometimes it's whatever. Martin, what did you find this week? Well, what I found this week is a Linux from the Linux Mint blog. So it was a call to arms back in February the 20th. Linux news sites have picked it up since. It's basically that there is between 5 and 30% of Linux Mint users still on 17. I mean the current 20, well 20.1. And also 30% of users apply updates in less than a week. I mean, I can understand, especially if someone wants to coming off windows or you're stuck in on an auntie's relatives or a friend's machine. And there you go. That's all working. There's your internet, there's your Word documents. Maybe it's just a case of people just forgot to show them top right-hand corner how to update your machine. Or it may just be the case that people just have it on older machines to the internet. But I think they've got the telemetry from Yahoo, which I found out that's why the page looks so, well let's face it, early 20s. So they've got some telemetry from there. Nothing insidious about it. It's just when you install Firefox, you have the Linux Mint site come up and obviously it reports what bits and pieces that you're on. So it's just a call to arms really, just caught my eye just for people to remind other people that they may have stuck a Linux Mint on and maybe any other distros just to remind them to keep it updated in terms of security. How about yourself, what caught your eye? Before we move on. What's just interesting is that they're saying that they might actually force people to update some things, right? Yes. I'm just going to rub a lot of people the wrong way. Well, it's going to be hard because you'd have to update it to get the mandatory update. If you know what I mean, you're going to have to update it or whether from 21 it's mandatory or they set it at monthly intervals to I'm guessing it'll just be a take off system, security, updates and different things like that. I don't think it'll... Well, they wouldn't be able to police it, would they? If they say, right, you all need to update now because I don't know, just doesn't... I mean obviously what would be as safe and secure as possible on it, but yeah, I think good luck with that one. But yeah, whether it is just... I mean, you have it flick up in the corner anyway, don't you? You have this many updates. Yeah, I mean it's not going to matter so much for Linux Mint, but I mean it would never fly for other distributions that are big like Enterprise because I mean, the Enterprise market or whatever, they don't want to update ever. I mean, they literally had to claw them away from Windows XP and Windows 7 and they fought tooth and nail in order to stay on those things forever and ever. I mean, I'm sure there's some corporates out there that are still using Windows XP and I know there's many out there that still use Windows 7, so it's probably the same in the Linux market. All our cash machines run Windows XP over here, I guess they're doing the states as well, the ATMs. Oh yeah, I think I read that. It's just too much money to replace them. But if someone does get on the inside and manage to hack in and in trouble, it's pointless upgrading the money, it's just not worth their money, it works for them. If someone does manage to infiltrate it via USB, it's only going to be that machine as far as they're aware, looking at the statistics when I checked your ages ago that they're willing to take the hit on the one machine. Yeah, yeah, a lot of corporates still use XP. Oh, I miss XP actually, so that's quite good. It's just Windows got brighter and bolder. There you go, that's another story. It's definitely the best Windows that's facing. That's not really saying all that much. Mine this week was GNOME 40 has entered beta stage and it can now be tested by anybody. The reason I wanted to talk about this is because we really haven't talked about GNOME 40 yet. It's going to be a fairly big UI change when it eventually comes out. I've been talking about this on a few videos. It's curious to me how Ubuntu will go through and implement this change if at all it's the same since 2006. I mean, they've changed themes, but they've had the same basically out, the icons along the side and the bar along the top. That's the way Ubuntu looks. So it'd be interesting to see if they follow any of the GNOME 40 stuff. Have you seen GNOME 40 yet? I saw a quick peek out there doing dark theming standard or moving on to that. Well, that might be Ubuntu. Ubuntu said they might go through and do dark theme by default, but GNOME 40 has moved the dock from the side to the bottom and it's only visible when you get into the activities mode. Remember in GNOME how the workspace used to be along the side? Now they're moving it along the top and it's kind of doing kind of like an elementary OS kind of activity view. Yeah. Like I said, it's not so different that it's like radical change or anything like going from GNOME 2 to GNOME 3, but it's definitely different than what it's been for the last few years. That's what I take a look at that. I've never really been a fan of GNOME, but... I don't know who it is. I mean, a lot of people are good fans. I just don't understand those people. Yeah. I think as I say, what fits in with your workflow, isn't it really? I mean, you can get used to anything, especially yourself or your key bindings and whatnot, but yeah, it's obviously a lot of people that use it, but if it makes it easier to use... Well, I think it looks nice. It's just, I don't know that it would be for me or not. I've never been a fan of... Really, once you go to a window manager, I just don't see myself ever going back to a desktop environment. And if I were to go back, I'd go to KFC. I almost called KFC. You can tell it's almost dinner time. If I were going to go to KDE, just because I could customize it as much as I needed to to make it completely mine. But I'll have to do something crazy. Or I'd go to KFC. That sounds good to me. Yeah. I mean, when in doubt, it's either Linux or chicken. You can't have both. All right. Let's jump into the main topic. This week's main topic was we're talking about backing up your files. Martin, what do you got for us? Yeah. Well, backing up, I was just going to talk about it in terms of on my self-use and see exactly what thoughts that you've got on your own backup. I mean, I do try and keep regular backups. I mean, at the end of the day, there's like the olden days where we'd have various different videos and this and our DVD movies that we backed up to our hard drive. I mean, none of that really happens now or through other sources, shall we say. So more case now, obviously you can get it from your Netflix and you've got Spotify, things like that, YouTube. It's mainly obviously keeping hold of the things that you'll never, ever get back like your family photos and important documents or scans of important documents. I mean, I'll always keep one in the cloud. I'll always keep a couple of backups on hard disk and also have backups on USB. I know they say that you should send it off to somebody. So it obviously isn't on your property. So haven't you ever had a fire? You're going to lose everything. But I'm hedging my bets on I've got everything I need on the cloud. Are you cloud services? How do you do your physical backups? All right. So I do external hard drives and I have like four of them and they're all here. So if I have a fire, I'm screwed. But I do have like my pictures and stuff backed up to Google photos or whatever. And a lot of my writing is up in Google Drive and Dropbox and stuff. And I have peak cloud at one point and I have stuff there. And I'm sure I had something on Apple iCloud or whatever when I was running Mac. So I mean, I have stuff all over the place. I have not found a mass online backup solution that works good for me. There's not a lot of them that work on Linux, first of all. And if I'm going to do a massive online backup thing, I want it to be all in one place. You know, I don't want any restrictions. I want unlimited. So like Backplace has an unlimited service but it only works on Mac and PCs. So if you want to use Linux, you have to use their CLI tool and they charge that storage the same way Amazon S3 charges and it would be like $400 a month. I don't have $400 a month to spend. I mean, that's a rent payment. That's just ridiculous. There's like a crash plan or something that works on Linux that has unlimited backup and it's fairly cheap. But their software is God awful. It's just not good. Other than that, I've not, like I said, I've not found a good mass backup online storage for Linux yet. I want to, but I mean, it has to simultaneously be really good so cheap enough that I can afford it, you know? Well, yeah. I mean, prices are coming down every year. It's ridiculous. Interesting about you saying you're a hard drive. I mean, obviously we'll treat ourselves now and again to a bigger hard drive. I'll always keep holding and stick a label on when I took the hard drive out, leave the data on it, transfer that onto my new hard drive. Obviously with distro hopping and things like that, I've got two hard drives, well, SSD drives, sorry, in my PhD and I'll just keep shifting the home over, sorry, my home directory over to my physical drive in there. Sorry, so I've got one SSD, one hard disk drive. And then copy the photos back over to the other one. So I've always got two relatively recent ones on my machine currently. I use Google photos also. So at the end of the day, that's the only camera that I do use in my phone. So I'll back up to the cloud and then I can back up to my PC as and when I want to stick an audio book on or anything like that. I have been also, and you'd said P-Cloud. So I use P-Cloud, put the teeth back in, P-Cloud. So you get seven gigabytes free. It's quite popular with Linux users. As you say, none of them have got the best integration of just a quite simple drag and drop. And obviously there's ways and rounds of doing it, but when I was using P-Cloud a bit more often, it did seem quite cumbersome, whether that's changed now or there's some decent software that literally I just want to move this folder onto there and do it. I don't want to go through the web UI and upload things like that. They have their Linux software, but it takes a lot of resources. When I add it on my computer, it takes like a gigabyte or more of RAM. And oftentimes it would, especially unlike if you're using Arch and it doesn't control its own updates, all the updates would come through there. You are from Pac-Man. It wouldn't register that there's like, it would, excuse me, it would register that there was a new update. It would remind you every 30 seconds and you can't get rid of it. It was annoying. So that's the reason why I stopped using P-Cloud. It was just really annoying. Yeah. So I'd use P-Cloud just to drop some important things in. Some photos I've got there. You've got seven gig to play about with. There's a lot there free. You've got 500 gigabyte, 159 pound, two terabyte for 309 pound. And I believe that's for a lifetime. I mean, that isn't too bad, but the rate that file size is increasing, who knows? We both use Dropbox. So you get two gigabytes free with that. Which is just, I mean, seriously, come on Dropbox, two gigabytes? Why even bother? But you can increase it to 18 gigabyte with referrals. I don't know that many people. I'm a loner. I have so many complaints, Martin. Yeah, neither do I. But I'm just saying I just searched eBay for Dropbox and I found me some referrals for about two pound. So basically I got 18 gig with Dropbox free forever until the change of rules. So Dropbox isn't too bad. It's okay, but two gigabytes measly. I mean, it's been that way for years and years, that's what I believe. The one that I favor at the moment is Google One. Yeah, that's what I had to. It's just easy. It does what it says on the tin. I'm not too bothered about, I've got no particular data on there. It literally is photos. I know there's a hiccup before with the photos when people was backing up. I've got bits of other people's photos, but it's literally what it is. I ended up having to buy Google One because I ran out of storage for email. I mean, that's the only reason really I'm paying for it is because I went over the 15 gigabytes for email because I've been using Gmail since it came out. So I got all this stuff. So I decided to, because we're all on Android phones anyway, I decided to pay for it. It's 100 gig for 16 pounds over here, but it's 200 gig for 25 pound a year. And I can add my family members to it so we can share all files or this and that, which isn't bad. And you've got the Google Photos and they're moving away from the photos and just trying to cut down on the storage. But Google One, it just works nice and easy. And I use a program called Overgrove. You do get a free trial. So you can try it out for a month and see how you find it. I have noticed with things like the uploading to Google and things like that, it does take quite some time. But Overgrove is quite nice. I think I paid $5 for that. And it literally starts with boot up. I can drag and drop into a folder. It does it in the background and leave it to go on there. Oh, sorry. It was 200 gig for 25 pound a year and two terabytes for 80 pound a year. That's where I had the two terabytes and you're not going to run out of two terabytes anyway. And finally, which we've all probably had at one point, is Microsoft OneDrive. So any hotmail account, you get a free five gigabytes with it. So you could just have a different account. I'm guessing to get that. I mean, if you want a subscription to get your office tools and stuff like that, and you'll get one terabyte storage, it's 60 pounds a year. And you get that for like five people too, so that's really cool. Yeah, so how do you find this? I mean, it is quite good though, especially if you are part of the ecosystem of spreadsheets and things like that, or if you want to create a web app to use Excel. But yeah, the Microsoft Drive, I mean, it is quite good the way they work. I mean, I know it's a pain in the butt when you log into, you've got to put your hotmail because if you say it's a lot of my hotmail, it takes me about 10 minutes to type it all in. But I mean, it does back everything up, even your wallpaper on your desktop, but it backs literally everything that you would need. And to be fair, it has saved me a couple of times, although it's too geeky, it has saved a couple of pictures with various Windows crashes and stuff like that. But yeah, let's just say one terabyte, 60 quid a year with office, up to five family members to share. Yeah, it's reasonable. Is there any others? I mean, obviously I haven't got into mega upload and things like that, which is too bad. I think I tried mega for like a day but I don't know why I didn't stay with it. So, I have the Google thing, I don't upload anything to it from Linux, unless I absolutely have to because I didn't want to pay for Overdrive because I didn't know if I was going to stick with Google or not. And the free options, there's one called Grive and I used that for a little while back when I first started using Linux full-time and it deleted a whole bunch of stuff off my Google Drive. That was not good. So, I pretty much stayed away from that. Basically, my backup, my way of doing backups is I have a cron job that takes place every day at midnight. It just takes my entire home directory and puts it on the external hard drive that I have hooked up to my computer. That's basically what I do. Really, I have my photos in Google Drive or in the Google Photos and most of my writing and stuff that I do is also, you know, other places. The only thing that if everything, you know, crashed or I had a fire that I would miss that I don't have, is probably the YouTube videos that I've been doing for the last three or four months. I have about 100 gigabytes worth of stuff that I need to figure out how I'm going to upload somewhere. I just haven't figured it out yet. I could probably just go ahead and shell out a little bit more money for Google and put them up in the Google thing, but I'm not sure if I really want to do that. I mean, I know a lot of people they create like a S3 bucket and put their stuff in there, but it seems like it's so expensive, you know? And really, I could deal with something that's inconvenient to deal with. Like if I just had to do this once a month and it was manual and I had to enter a command or something, you know, I don't care about inconvenience. And more, I mean, price is really the place where I, you know, have to look for first poor people, you know? Yeah, I mean, as time goes on, it's just going to drop and drop, isn't it? I mean, not so much the price. I'll keep the prices roughly about the same, but they'll just keep increasing the, you know, keep about uses. And I forgot another big player. If you've got Amazon Prime, you get unlimited photo storage. And I've just logged into check. I've got 10 gigabytes used for video and file storage. So that's not too bad if you're part of Amazon Prime. I'm not too sure whether you get the free. I don't think you get the, I think it just is to prime members to get the unlimited photos, and video, you do get 10 gigabytes, which is a plus of having prime, to be fair. Yeah. So that's another one. So I mean, there's plenty of free choices to spread it out of your files, but if you've got copious amounts of YouTube or edited footage, you're going to have to spend the books. Yeah, I know. I was going to say, probably if you're a Linux guy, or a tech guy at all, I mean, if you're going to just go free, just get free of everybody's and then spread it out amongst you. Two gigabytes on Dropbox and 7MP Cloud and just have them all running in the background. That sounds really complicated. Some random script. Just stick your photos on Amazon Prime so that you've got your free storage there. Whoever you would trust with your personal data, I really don't know to be fair. I've got a bit on Google, but I've got two-factor authentication and everything on that. So that's relatively safe, which is what he says. But yeah, I was thinking about that. If only somebody could make some program that just spreads it all out evenly between these mega upload countless, many others. Degu, I think I've paid for as well. I've got it on some offer. Negabyte costs for life. Costs me about 80 pounds, which wasn't too bad. I've literally never used it because it takes about five minutes to upload a one-negabyte picture. I won't be using that. That's a waste of 80. Get a bit faster. That's about it. Do you back up to USB or just draw the trustee? Physical drives more? Yeah, it's just through a USB external drive. It's the way I have like a Western digital thing that I just got. Because my old one, I had like an eight terabyte one for like a year and it did not last with the dam this time. Before that, I had a four terabyte one. That one's still going strong. I had that one locked in a fire safe box. And then I have one from college. It was like a, it was probably like a 150 gigabyte one. I mean, it was ages and ages ago. That one's somewhere around here. But I had to get a 16 gigabyte or 16 terabyte one from Amazon not too long ago to replace this eight terabyte. And that's just the one that I have, the only one I have hooked up to my computer. But I do have in my computer, inside the box of my computer, I have the terabyte one that has the boot drive. And then I have a blank two terabyte one that I probably will use to back up the videos, at least so I have at least two places in case the drive fails at least. So I have hard drives all over the place. It's ridiculous. I've got a large collection. My oldest one I think is 20 megabytes. It weighs about two pounds in weight. It's one of my first hard drives, 20 megabytes. And I used to go through, I used all the Windows help files so I could stick little games on and then trying to squeeze as much space out of this more new drive. Now, you're not going to run out of drive space if you run out of drive space nowadays. You've just got either too much to watch or the resolution's coming in 24K. I bet you're not touching anywhere near, the capacity on any of your drives. Let's face it, it literally is nice now just to drag one folder with all your documents, everything just plop it on the other without going through deleting. I mean, obviously I've got duplicates galore but I don't have duplicates and nothing spaced out between all my drives. When I switched over from the 8 terabyte to the 16, I did go through and delete a whole always go through and do like a full backup on my stuff. Usually just, it's the kind of like a delta kind of thing. It just takes anything I've deleted off and replaces the, puts anything on it that I've just created. So I don't have a whole one for every day. That would be ridiculous but every once in a while I'll go through and create a new folder and do a new thing so I did go through and took off a whole terabyte worth of old stuff because I had a whole bunch of VM virtual machine stuff on there and every ISO ever I've ever downloaded, I got rid of all that stuff. So I did delete like a whole terabyte with stuff when I transferred over but I still have, I have like, I don't know, three terabytes worth of stuff and most of that is going to be videos, like movies and TV shows. And if that stuff went away, I mean, I understand there would be some people who would care that their TV shows and stuff that they've, you know, but for me, if that stuff went away I would just re-download it. I mean, this is going to sound great. I mean, some of it obviously I've paid for but most of it, no, I haven't. So that's just the way, I mean. It's on the internet somewhere, I just gave up on my, I had that many music videos that I'd downloaded in the past before YouTube that I clung old on for years. It's a case of, why am I holding on to these? It's YouTube's air. Watch some on YouTube. I have like 50 gigabytes of music that I never use. It's not Spotify, right? Yeah, yeah. I'm YouTube premium so I use YouTube and it's a case of, it's like back to the days when people stopped going CDs and was ripping them all. It's just so much easier just to pay a subscription and do any sort of ripping or anything like that. I mean, we ended up just getting rid of all our CDs. We're in the process of buying them all back now slowly but surely because I think I quite like sticking the CD on. A record, I guess. People are going back to vinyl now, yeah? I'd saw something. They're trying to bring out track back. They need to stop. No, that's not. Those things failed so easily. They just broke all the time. I mean, it would be like going back to, I mean cassette tapes for a little bit more hardy but how many times did you use a cassette tape and then have to dig the tape out of your player because it ate it? I mean, it's like going back to VCR. That's what you got your pencil for and get your pencil back in there. It's interesting what you say about like when you went through your backups I was doing what you say. I was transferring to help and I thought, why does this folder sound so big? Let's have a look. It was just full of OSOs or this and that. You just think I'll keep that one just in case I'll try that out later on or you'll try it out and you'll download the next version and you just have a gathering of them which doesn't help but yeah, I did have untold amount of Linux distros downloaded. Yep, all good fun. All right, let's go ahead and move on to the apps of the week. I think we could just both agree make sure you back up your shit. Yeah, especially photos. I've got stung before and lost a year's worth of photos and you can guarantee I don't go through many of my photos but there's a lot of photos in there that add memories and end of the day just yeah, back up your shit. Yes. All right, moving on to the apps of the week. Martin, your app of the week. Sysmon task. This is so I'm talking about sticking people over from Windows onto Linux. This is a system monitor clone of Windows task manager. It even comes with the graphs and process killer installed. It literally is a one on one copy of the end system task manager if you can remember that on Windows. So it did say for anyone that wants to look at them there's untold system resources on Linux. That's what really caught my eye to be fair recently. I haven't really had much of Linux people that hate Windows. Stick that one in. How about yourself, what did you find? All right, so this is like an old one that I've been using for a while on it. I'm trying to think of I feel like I've done this one before but I'm just going to mention again last pass has been doing there's some crazy stuff they went through and changed their free thing. Yes. Great. Because I do use it on my computer on March 18 whichever thing you log into is going to be the one that's going to hold your account. I've made two decisions whether to log in with my phone where I need it more or the PC which is just easier. You could pay Yes, of course. I saw that. We've got a percentage of it. It's really hard when they've given you something for free for years to then go through and force you to pay for it. Especially when I may be remembering this wrong but last pass would go through they used to charge you to swing your stuff. That's the way it used to be but it was like $2 a month or something and then they changed it so that everybody got synced for free charging and they've made it so completely complicated. My pick is Bitwarden so Bitwarden is free so it's free like beer and free as in freedom open source now they do have a paid tier where you get use of UB keys and stuff like that but otherwise everything is open source you can actually go in and read all the code if you're a developer you can actually go in and audit the code if you wanted to and it's not like other open source ones like Npass is partially open source but there's some server magic or whatever that goes on in the background that's proprietary this one is completely open source so it's also free and it's available on every platform you want very well designed I haven't had any problems with it it's I actually like it better than last pass because the web interface for Bitwarden is better the application for Linux is native instead of some weird electron app the Android app is very good I haven't tried the iOS app because I don't have an iPhone but I'm sure it's just as good so that's my pick I mean I've got Bitwarden members signed up to use with my UB key I might as well go back to Bitwarden because you can just export your last pass into a CSV and import it into Bitwarden once you get your head around it it literally is a 15-20 minute job to transfer all your last pass stuff across I think I might be doing that because I can't be doing either going to my phone for some random password for a site that I haven't logged into yet but there you go they got me well and truly I'm not going to pay for it I mean I would if it was a reasonable amount but I just want to pay 200 quid for a lifetime and just job done if they gave you something that was more all they're actually doing is taking away stuff they're not giving you anything extra that you didn't get before you're just paying for stuff that you already had it's very they did not handle it well I wouldn't be surprised if they lose half of their membership because why would you stay unless you literally only use it on one platform I understand you want companies and developers stuff to make money I'm not against people charging for stuff that's not where I'm coming from it's just more like I said before it was really really hard to have something for free and then all of a sudden not have it anymore because the company decided they wanted to charge for it's much easier to come up with new features and then say hey we want to we have these awesome new features yeah or just tag in some what we've got some photo stories add this to your account just do it as add-ons I mean yeah I would pay with it but I don't want to tie in to a monthly payment just to hold on to my password I'd rather just use a CSV spreadsheet and computer and use copy and paste on the time you can't get much safer than that unless someone actually does get into my PC but yeah I might give Bitward and other trials a bit too used to last pass and it was working for me greatly but yeah I think of what we're going back on to Bitward and then see what those guys have got to say obviously if you like what you're getting an upgrade to the premium version I think it's like $10, $12 a month you get and something like I'd like to say a gigabyte it's been a while since I've been on and you can just add to it if you want for file storage you're talking about Bitward the class for Bitward it's $10 a year $10 yeah I mean for a year yep I wouldn't like to say much last pass but I just looked at it and it just laughed yeah but that $10 a year is nothing at the end of the day since I'll be there I'm with you on the lifetime though if Bitward said hey you want to give us a hundred bucks and we don't have to ever pay us again I'd definitely do that I mean I want to support them because they're open source and stuff but I mean I forget that I'm paying them like a year from now like what's this mysterious $10 charge on my credit card alright anyways we've gone a bit over but that's okay that's it for us this time coming up next time I'm actually so we're going to talk about printer support on Linux I mean could I get any more nerdy than printer support on Linux you're going to talk this is this is my topic too why do I want to talk about this anyways that's what we're going to talk about thanks for listening and we'll see you next time bye stuff cheers guys take care