 I don't have any guests with us this morning. So do we just, I think we can dispense with introductions. And does everyone have the agenda handy. Yes. Okay. Is there any discussion on the agenda. We might not be able to get to everything without. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Shane is input. Not seeing anything. So I believe we could just proceed. Onto public comments. We have no public with us today. So. Keep moving forward. Which brings us to. Reviewing and improving the minutes from our prior meeting. We have a few minutes to just. Look over those quickly. She apologizes. She is trying to get on, but her computer rebooted. Without, you know what I mean? Like when it does that thing, and it has to. You don't have a choice. That's not funny. That's just such a thing that would happen on a Wednesday. Right. Can someone actually send me the agenda. I just realized the one I was looking at, I think is from two weeks ago. Yes. Let me know when you've. I'm ready. Someone else joined us. No. Okay. So I'm ready to review them again. Yeah, I don't have any comments. I motion to approve. I just forget. Am I a voting member? Can I make motion? Okay. I move we approve the. The minutes. I'll second. All in favor of approving the minutes. Okay. Okay. Let's say aye. Aye. Aye. Opposed. That's good. We're approved. Let's move on. We've we're on to our. Learning round table and just going to open this up to folks. Does anyone have anything they want to share. That they found interesting and relevant in the past couple of weeks. I actually read a really great article about Tabitha. She's a young woman who is helping as part of creative discourse. Tabitha more. And I think it was in the digger and I will send it to you all, but it was about. The racism that she's experienced in her hometown. And. And how she has to leave. Like. Or targeting her children. And it was just really. I mean, I. I mean, obviously, I think we all kind of know these things are happening, but it was just. I think it's a really bold and stark view on how it's impacted her as a person and how. She's feeling forced out of her community. So I just was interesting and I think it's. Good to sort of see that. Not good to see that, but like good to. Read this like honest report of that. I think a lot of folks just again, think it doesn't happen here kind of. But I think it's a good thing. I think it's a good thing. That too. So it was, it was interesting to read that. And also since she's. With us on this project. So. That out to folks, but that was my sort of week. We're exactly where she living. I think it's Rutland's, but I. Yeah, she has, she wasn't living in Rutland. And I think she's, I don't even know. I don't know if she's still in Rutland County or if she's left the area altogether. I don't know if she's still in Rutland County. I don't know if she's still in Rutland County. I don't know. Yeah. The NAACP. I was, I don't know if she still is. Yeah. I think she left that position and. Just doing this work with creative discourse and some other. Groups. I think a woman named Mia Schultz took over that. NAACP. Position. Yeah. Unfortunately, there's a. Another story of that. I don't know if you all saw this. There was a. An African American woman in Milton who uses a wheelchair. Who in December or maybe it was earlier in the fall was. Targeted and harassed and actually. Struck by a white woman in a private vehicle on parking lot. And. She was not assisted by the local police in any way. So there was. The peace and justice center in Burlington was trying to raise awareness. And get some action on this, but. That didn't seem to come too much. And. There's been a fundraising call recently. She has been so harassed that she's going to leave Milton and relocate. I think out of state. I don't know where I saw it as well. But. There seems to be a trend of. Particularly African American women. Being really targeted and harassed. And so this seems to be happening. Kind of routinely. Yeah, something to. Think about and be aware of for sure. Yeah, there was something in. And I can't remember where I saw it about. The obvious. Point that the previous administration has. Just unleashed. The rise of racism. Anti-Semitism. Xenophobia. And, and. You know, how to sort of put it back. Put it back in the bottle and put the cork on. Really tight, but. It is, it is a serious problem. I think was. Really stepping back to 1870s or 1880s year. Except it's not confined to, it's not confined to the south. Well, I don't think it ever was. This is true. Yeah, I'll put it in there too. There was. Keisha, who's working with us. I don't know if you all saw her article. Maybe she had shared that. But right in the same thing. And there was a woman who was on the. I think Hartford select board who. Was a woman of color who ended up stepping down because she was getting to harassed and. Like, what else? You know, that's just the same story. So. Anything else anyone. Was to share. They've come across or learned. I guess one thing on a. Less learned, but. On a more. Slightly more positive note that it's been really interesting to see at the. At the legislature and like what issues are getting prioritized. Like there's a lot of. And I think having leaders like. Keisha as a senator. And other things is. Really. You know, helping have. Having really great leadership on this, but like racial justice. And. Social justice issues are. Like really being prioritized in a way that I. Absolutely never seen and like being considered in the whole suite of policies in a way. They never were thought about before. So. You know, the, the. Unveiling of the racism was that. Has been there. I think at least has woken people up and is changing. Sorry. Something funny, but. But anyway, there's. There's. A lot of. Kind of. Working on it and working to address it and bringing in voices of people that haven't. Had a seat at the table for a long time. Good. COVID has had much to do with it. Or is that really more. You know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, because that was a tough one. But what rather you said, you have to do with it or is it really more, really, really. Um, not so much the center of the issue. I think less COVID, although it's just like another. Yeah. Star example of the discrepancy and, you know, but people are facing based on. Who they are. So, I think that was just like another point in your screen. So I am six report backs from other related city committees. Michael maybe start with you. Is there anything to report from I'm Lauren from the police review. Committee. Let's see. We have not yet heard back. We have, we have a representative from our committee who is in contact with Keisha. His name is Dan towel. And I think I reported that last time we have, we sent them some questions. We're waiting to hear. From them again. And so we're kind of on hold in that, other than that. We are starting to, we've, we're starting to sort of organize the data that we have already and pigeonhole it into several, a bunch of topics. And each one of them, each member of the committee has selected one. So we haven't really started talking about what we've found yet, but we are accumulating resources and. There's a lot of data. I think we're being swamped by data at this point. And the question is how to, how to start thinking about it and use it and using it. I think that's all I can report. Did you have a chance to your committee? Well, I've probably been met yet. See the UVM study that came out. I think it was last week about policing in Vermont. I haven't seen the. Well, the one that I saw was the one about excuse me about traffic. Is that the one you. The one driving while black and brown, because there was an update to this one was. Yeah. That's it. Yeah. Yeah, this was. It was just released. So it might be an update on some of those. Older studies. Yeah. I have it actually, I, I, after I went and got it, got the old one photocopied two days later, the new one came out. So, and it's twice as thick. So I haven't, I haven't weighed it into it, but. I don't imagine that the, the general results are going to be much different, but I will look more closely at some of the, some of the figures. I think it's interesting that that's that, you know, that the. And it may just be that that's what most police are doing is working in, you know, traffic stops, you know. Whereas obviously there are the serious problems in Berlin and in Burlington right now, but. This one at least is quantifiable, easily quantifiable. I have read that it's very difficult to get information about other kinds of issues with policing that. That the record keeping is, is, varies from community to community and there's really no, no statewide, much less nationwide standard. And with the disband and this, the, the previous administrations shutting down. FBI and, and, and the Department of Health efforts to look at some issues about race and policing. There's a big gap in what we know about what's going on. Because I've been one of my assignments is to look at use of force and it's clear that there are the statistics are totally unreliable. In that area. So traffic stops are at least uniformly reported. And catalog, catalog. So that's, that's where it's a good place to start. But it doesn't, doesn't by any means give us a whole picture. Thank you. Lauren, any updates from the land of city council? No, I mean, we haven't met for a couple of weeks, which is unusual. Yeah, it's been, you know, obviously. We've had some interesting conversations around the budget, but that was the most substantive recent thing that, that has been going on. And then we meet again. A week from today. So. No, no. And I guess the three. The four of us were at the city last city council meeting one way or another. And I thought that. Bill did a better job explaining what, what the, what the police budget. What the police budget was. How the police budget was arrived at. I don't know if it, if it convinced anybody who was already unconvinced, but, but it was, it was a better, it was an improvement. So thanks to Cameron for passing that along from us. Yeah. I mean, there was, there was not a defunding of the police. So if that's what you support, which that was certainly, um, you know, you know, what a number of folks of because we're kind of leaving those questions to this analysis, I think that part is frustrating, but it also the, yeah, I don't know how many, I was still finding it confusing, even though like, I knew what he was saying. I was like, I, I think this is still really confusing if I was just following it, um, like moving pots of money around and like cost of living increases and extra pay period. And like, how does this, it's like, you know, you know, you know, you can't really do a good apples to apples comparison to other departments because there was just so many moving pieces. It's seemed, even though we really didn't treat the police department differently, we treated them the same way, but it still seems like somehow. And then with the budget process, but where are we as we get closer to town meeting day? So now it's approved. It's like, you know, it's like, you know, it's like a ballot on town meeting day. Um, you know, and it is. Like a budget number. So that's what you're approving. So I think there's still, you know, there's. That's, that's what we're following. And, you know, but as we saw this past year, like, we had to be incredibly. We being the city staff. Getting the credit for all the hard work of like trying to figure this out. And then, you know, you know, what to do with what's coming in and priorities, but. So I think there's still obviously a role for this committee and. I think that the work that. Was done, like thinking about. Like the advice of earlier in the process and how this is built in more like at the ground level, like where Cameron's working, like with departments. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The tool that you all gave us or gave counsel is definitely something we're going to be folding into our, um, you know, budget discussions starting next year. Those conversations that already happened by the time, you know, you all develop that. But, you know, that's certainly something that will fold into our conversations. We're kind of. That's what I mix. I'll speak for myself. About like having a structure to those conversations. Yeah, maybe Cameron, if you could think about. Other ways we could contribute to that. Cause you know that we were, you know, whip that out very quickly. With just a little bit of research. Um, so there's other work we can do to assist. City staff kind of. Baking that in even more robustly. Um, maybe we could have that as a discussion topic. You know, as we get into the spring. Um, just so we can make it easier for the city stuff to kind of. Adopt that and use it. I'll note that. Thank you. Are there any other. Committees or city business that we want to hear about. Well, I'll add one thing. And that's the, the other committee that I'm on is on the Montpelier community fund. And, um, and, um, Um, as you know, the, the city council kept our funding level, which they didn't cut it, which was good because more than half of that goes to nonprofits that have to do with providing social services. Um, and so that was, and while those grants are. For the most part, pretty small ones, there are a few large ones in there. And so, um, it is a, it's a, it's a, it's a very important thing. And I think that is why we were, we were able to do it. And we were able to do that. And we were able to constitute a major contribution of tax funds to. Uh, organizations that are. Providing social social services and, um, and the kinds of things that our committee is interested. So that was good. That was good. We weren't, we weren't cut. And we were able to do the deliberation without. Without having to release pinch pennies. gave out, but it wasn't really because we had these constraints. We just, you know, we super, we look at those applications seriously to see how well they, you know, they present their case and what they've done in the past year and also what their needs are. We rarely add, well, I don't think we've ever added money to, you know, more than they've asked for. But we try very hard to at least do level funding and accomplished, we were able to accomplish that. So that's some help. Yeah, the presentation your representative made was really well done. It was a great story. Okay, so that's all I have. Okay, why don't we keep going then? So now we're on to creative discourse updates. Updates, and this is where I think we're missing Shayna the most. That she's going to try to call in. I have talked to Keisha about scheduling city staff and so she's given us three dates. So right now I'm working on figuring out which dates works for which in the highest concentration. So just to be honest, the issue we're running into is our police and fire group. I mean, I figured that would be the hardest one to schedule, but they all work really long. They all work shift work, right? And so getting them all into a room is kind of rough. So a digital room just for the record, we are not making people join in person. So we're just working on that. Trying to get that figured out. You know, they still want to meet with my two black staff members independently, so just trying to make sure Brandon and Emily's schedules are well accommodated. So we're just working that out, but that's all identified. I've also reached out to a couple of our LGBTQIA organizations and so they just want to know what day in time so they can advertise. You know, it's less of like, let's find 12 people exactly. They just want to advertise it for us. So I think that's fair. And so that's the issue I'm running into and I don't know about y'all, but like people don't want to identify like, yes, I, John Smith, want to come. It's how me when you want me to be there and I will be there if I can, you know? So I'm running into that problem. And so it's a little harder to schedule when I just kind of want to be given a date and then work around that date. So that's sort of where I'm at with that. But otherwise it's a good progress. So it'll be three minutes that are done. Great. Is this Shayna? I hope so. This is, hi, sorry, you guys. Hey, that's okay. Still waiting on my computer. So, and I don't have, so I don't have my like notes from my talk which we did just first last week, but I can share anything from memory. Although I think, great. I think Kasia also spent kind of a summary to you, Cameron, in terms of stuff that you guys are going over. Is there anything? So yeah, Cameron was just sharing about her work to schedule things with the city. Is there anything Shayna, you can update us on from memory about where things are at? Yeah. I mean, I think it sounds like, I don't, this might be repeats because I came in 10 of halfway through the update. Apologies. But that they're going to be doing like one, I like interview if there's only a couple of BIPOC city staff of just doing those like interviews and not as full on focus groups, but as wanting to start scheduling them. And it's almost, it seems to me, I think almost like what you were talking about, Cameron, of just wanting to like set a time and then recognizing that not everyone's going to be able to come of all the people that they're going to invite, but of like setting a time with like one or two people who are really excited about coming and then working backwards from there. And then, Yeah, Shayna, oh, I'm sorry. Yeah. No, go ahead. Ask them to just do that. Like just do this at the time. Yeah. And it doesn't even have to be like, we want to do this group, but this day, it's just, here's five days and times that work for us. We can just sort of pick who, what affinity group we want to schedule. Oh, I thought, I thought they did that, did they? They did that for city staff. They did that for city staff. Oh. Am I like correct? I think they did one for the city staff and then one for the BIPOC community affinity group. They offered two days. So that's just not all of them, you know? So, yeah. Well, because I think they wanted to do a cup, they wanted to do those first four before like having them more broad open ones because then like to, to then go, you know, go back and to edit the question, you know, kind of do like that first cut first before doing the bigger round of introduction. So, because, sorry. Yep. But yeah, so wanting to have the meetings with, with, you know, all the different city staff groups with the, with BIPOC Montpelierites and with the leaders of community organizations. Before going, before like scheduling the other meetings because also reckons like they want to do the survey around when they do that launch as well. But yeah, like wanting to talk to city staff and BIPOC faces in particular before sending out the survey and things like that. Yeah. So like scheduling all of these ones in February and then scheduling the next ones in March. Which was, sorry, I thought we had talked about that as well. Yeah. I think I'm hoping to go do some apologies. So the ones that they want to do, the city staff, the BIPOC and that's, and that's different from the BIPOC city staff or is that included in that? Because we had originally, I think. Yeah. Separated those, those two. But so city staff in one way or another BIPOC city residents, community leaders and what was the fourth one? The LGD, LGB. And police and fire. Oh, police and fire. Okay. Right. And that's from memory, but it should be on that, on that form on the, on the, on the. Okay. So one, two, three, four, four constituency groups before writing a preliminary report or sending out a survey. Is that the plan? Yeah. I don't think it'll be a preliminary report. I think it'll be for sending out the survey and for like focusing in on the questions for the other groups. Okay. And then, so we won't really, the first thing that we'll really have to figure out the stipends for, because, you know, for all the city staff and for the leaders of civic organizations, we won't have to do stipends, but for the, you know, BIPOC and then everyone from there on, we will like we should be doing stipends. And then that was a question that I brought to them. And they basically flipped it back around on us. They were like, what? Like whatever you guys think, you know, like make sure you have the conversation, like report it back to me. But, you know, they said in other places, like the money all came from the city, from the school districts, from these municipal sources and they didn't have to go through grant funds or other like local fundraising efforts. So they just like set the amount and went from there, but they're like, we recognize if you guys are, you know, doing the fundraising, you know, do, if you commit to doing $50 person and 35 people show up, like that's going to add up really, you know, like it's, they were really like wanting it to be fair and, you know, wanting it to be reasonable for our group. So I didn't know if folks had any thoughts about that. Cause yeah, I asked the question and they did not, they turned the background on it. Well, I mean, I went, I thought about this again because while I was doing the minutes last night at a late hour, actually what I was doing was, since my own notes were almost illegible to me, I watched on Orca our meeting again, which is why, this is why you've got those minutes at two in the morning, but I think it's time for us to decide at least on an amount and how that's going to be because we left that issue unresolved. And I, you know, the two amounts that I was hearing were, you know, is it going to be $100? Is it going to be $50? And in what form is it going to be in gift cards or credit cards or cash? And I think we just have to, because if we're going to do fundraising now or go into our bank account, we have to know how much we have to budget for that. I'll help your head. Anyone, do we know what funds we have in hand? Yeah, it's in the minutes. About $700 from individuals, which I think is the easiest, you know, funds to spend for stipends. 2000, I'm trying to find the exact number. Well, there was a $3,000 grant from Ben and Jerry's, right? Oh, no, the $3,000 grant is the one that we were waiting on. But there was a 20, what was the Ben and Jerry's $2,500? Something like that. It's 20, it's two, okay. So between the Ben and Jerry's grant and donations, you have $2,718. And the Ben and Jerry's is unspecified, right? Just $2,000 gift, is that it? So we could use that for the stipends, too. Is that right, Cameron? I think so, I didn't, I don't, I think so though. Well, Shanie, you wrote the grant, right? Yeah, I can't, I'll have to go back and check. I think I was telling myself we only have the $700, but we can, yeah, I can go back and check. Well, some quick math, if we were to offer $50 stipends, and let's say we somehow had up to 50 participants, we're looking at $2,500 in stipends at that formula. I mean, 50 feels like a reasonable stipend, but I guess this depends on whether the Ben and Jerry's money is unencumbered or restricted or anyway. I mean, and even if it's, why don't I just call them up and ask, because, right, even if it's not written, you know, we might be able to just get that, that okay. Okay, great. And then, well, and then we also have a commitment from Montalera Live to do, to, you know, get local business donations as well. So the ask there would be like to ask for $50 for those and then give people the option of getting it to be cash or a check or getting it for a local business. Does that make sense? Yeah, I wonder if we can get into some equity, some inequitable situations where people are getting either just cash or a gift card, is that a weird situation where somebody gets one versus the other? Is it possible to just offer them an option? Here, we have two possibilities. We have, you know, a $50 cash or $50. And it would be nice if the gift card could be not from a particular, not for a particular business, but to be spent in a local, in one of the local, you know, a list of where you can spend it so that, you know, it stays local, but it's not, you don't, you have to, you have to go to Bear Park to use it or something like that. Great. I'll need to take the money out of your account too. Like if we can, I'll just have to figure out how to physically get money that's not invoiced. That makes sense. It might be one of those things where, like because it's city money, you have to account for where it's going, right? So, I'll just need to figure out how to do that. No more. Well, because it'll go to Creative Discourse, right? And then they will have to. Discourse it. Yeah, of the dispersal, yep. So we'll just have, we'll just, I'll figure out what the best process is and we'll work it out with our meetings with the public. Yeah, but in Creative Discourse, you're not thinking too concerned about offering like local business gift cards as an option. So they could, they could manage having it be an option, like doing that or having it be a check or whatever it was. So are we agreement that $50 sounds like the right amount? Yeah, is that a motion? Seconded. Yeah, that sounds, that sounds okay to me. With the idea that it can be offered as cash or gift card or do we, do we need to be specific about that? I don't think we do. $50 value of something sounds right. All right. So we have a motion and a second. Does anyone have any other Creative Discourse updates or issues, questions? I'll get a vote on the $50. Oh, sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. All right, all in favor of a $50 value stipend. If our focus group participants say aye. Aye. Aye. Opposed? Passed. Nice work. Any other Creative Discourse business? I'm sorry, I did just, I'm pulling, I downloaded Google Drive, pulled up my notes. So here's just one, one sec real quick. Sure. Make sure. Oh, and then there was also the question of people participating in multiple buckets and multiple meetings that you guys had asked. And so I just wanted to report back on that, of they didn't seem to, you know, too concerned about that wanting each of the meetings, each of the spaces to be intersectional, right? So like someone who was participating in the BIPOC focus group can also be a youth person participating in the youth focus group. You feel like that that is good and important. And the only thing that they were like wanting to be, you know, careful about was of, you know, people like in positions of power, right? So of like not having the, you know, someone who's in a leader of a social service organization participating in the youth group or, you know, whatever it is. So kind of like in that hierarchy sense, right? So potentially not having like the chief of police participating in the BIPOC Montpelier race group, right? Which I thought made sense to me, but that's the question that people could participate in multiple meetings. They were like, sure, sounds good. Okay, good. And I think, were there any other questions that you guys have for creative resources that I have in my notes that I'm trying to find now? The questions from the SRO policing group, you know, the group came up with seven questions or so on policing to incorporate into conversations and into the surveys. They won't get to all of the questions in every focus group, or we'll get all of the questions into the surveys, but by having some of the initial conversations we'll be able to win a win down. And then to kind of avoid like overburdening folks, they're gonna have the BIPOC authorities face in particular go over both options and have that be 90 minutes to be able to incorporate both the like general survey questions and the specific policing stuff all in the same meeting and potentially offer a little bit more of sightings there, but I do not have an exact amount. So it has to be 90 minutes. The 90 minute time is just for the BIPOC group or is it gonna be the standard of their? Just for the BIPOC group, because it would be both for the group that you're a part of, Michael. Yeah, like for those questions. Come on, tell your police to move you, okay. Yeah, two birds one stone. Right, okay. And then yeah, when we're making the list of names, like when we're sending folks, just to put in how they identify to them as much as we know. So if they, so that they'll come in a little bit more prepared if they don't know who these people are when sending those names directly to Tisha and Tabitha. I'm sorry, I'm just, I'm realizing how silly this is of having it be like just me having these conversations and then report back when I like, still don't have my computer accessible. Does anyone wanna like join me on these meetings? I'll ask once again. You can always send them to me if I can, if I have my time available, I can be there to help. Yeah, okay. Anything else, Shayna from you on Creative Discourse? That's all that I'm seeing in my phone. So apologies if there's more. No, don't worry. That's all that I'm remembering right now. Yeah, we're seeing right now. My phone has also now been saying about a minute remaining, so let's see if it'll come back. The total buster. Let's move on. Do we have any other business folks? Have an announcement. Okay. So the city has been made aware and so therefore we cannot say anything that using Google Drives is actually a violation of open meeting law. So we'll be bringing that to council next week just to like ratify that, you know, committee shouldn't be using that to communicate. So if we have any documents to edit, you need to, you as a committee, if you have a document, send it out to the whole committee and then the committee can respond individually, not as like a reply all, and then we have to discuss that in the open meeting. So I'm just, I'm announcing this to all my committees. We're all announcing it to all of our committees, just as a heads up. That's all I had. Thank you. That was a bomb. Yeah, and I actually, I'm not a fan of Google Docs, of that kind of communication, but so I'm actually for it, but I think others are not. We'll see how that affects things. I would like on a related thing. I think it would be really helpful to send to all committee chairs, the statute or whatever it is, the rules for open meeting law, because a lot of us are proceeding without really knowing them. The thing is, is that when you get nominated or when you get appointed, Jeremy, please let me know if you didn't get this. I didn't get them, yeah. You get a welcome packet and it has all those pools. Right. So everyone should have them, but you're right, we can do another one for that, for sure. Yeah, it's a reminder because they are, and there are some members of committees who bridle at these, you know. Yeah. So we did edit the welcome packet because- You're like, we've printed out one a year or something. Yeah. Well, I'll make a note of that. We did edit the welcome packet. That's what we're asking council to approve, because it's technically there, policies for committee meetings. And so we'll, we can resend it out to everyone as soon as that's approved. We'll send it out every committee, all of them. I remember we did, I don't think we did it this year, but last year, like, Vermont League of Cities and Towns did what was an extremely long and detailed overview. It was like an hour and a half or maybe it just felt like that. It was a meeting loss. But if we do that again, we could send that around to the groups that people would like to hear it explained verbally instead of just reading a packet. So I don't know if that is going to happen, but it was like a lot of like hypotheticals and scenarios and stuff, which was helpful to think through, like what are situations you might find yourself in. So if that's on the docket anyway, that could be useful to people who want to dig in more. Cameron, is there any kind of collaborative document editing platform that city staff do use that committees might have access to? So staff can, so that's like the thing, right? Like staff can use it for internal work. Got it. Public thing is just not allowed. Got it. But also we don't have any special, any software. Yeah, we run into that at the medical center because of HIPAA rules. We're not allowed to use anything that we don't have a business agreement with. So, yeah, I understand. Any other business? Yes, I would like to raise the question about our meeting time. When we talked about this, I thought I was in September, I would be at working at the bakery. It turns out that I was misinformed. September should have been February. So, but my schedule is two days a week in the afternoons. So I can continue, I can, it doesn't make any difference to me from that point of view, which time we use. I will not be going to the bakery at 5.30 in the morning. So, if we want to move it back, if we do want to move it to an afternoon, it's okay or an evening, it's okay. If we want to keep it in the morning, it's all right with me too. And I don't know if I was the only one who raised a concern about it. Well, I don't know. Helen was the one advocating for the morning time. And is she, or is that right in the morning time? I can't remember which one now, but is she on? No, she didn't join. Okay. I guess if it doesn't make any difference to you, I would like to have it be the time when she would be easier for her to join. Is that right? Is that right? Yeah. Yeah, I'm still okay with that. And I can't remember from, we can go back and, I don't think it was in the minutes, but I can go back and look at the meeting again to see what she had done as it, what she had said it was her preference. That meeting was recorded by Orca and it's on the city website. You can get it through the Orca website. I'll see if I can find it again. I mean, I believe that was the morning because I was going back to Wednesday morning because we were meeting for the Saturday morning and she wanted to change it, right? Is that right? Yeah. I think that's right. And I was the one who said that I was, I thought I might not be able to do that, but now I can. So we can continue morning is okay with me. So do I, I'll make a motion to continue with our Wednesday morning meeting. Is that Wednesday, eight, every other Wednesday, eight, 30 to 10? Yep. Okay. Okay. No, eight, 30 to 10. Okay. I second. All in favor? Aye. Any opposed? So that passes. That is our new, new old meeting time. Thank you guys. Other business I had been tasked with updating. So I've been tasked with updating the copy for the website. I have not done that yet. I still have it on my list. So I'm going to do my best to get to that in the next few days. So that's my update on that. Shayna, were you going to say something? No, I was saying, I'm glad you don't have, you're not going to have to be at work at five 30 in the morning, Michael. That sounds hard. That's all. Nothing, nothing helpful. It's okay. I don't mind it too much actually. Makes me go to bed sooner. So I don't write too, I don't send out meetings at two in the morning. If I have to get up to be at five. Yeah, exactly. Anyone else have anything in other business? All right. I think we're talking now about our agenda for the next meeting. Is it kind of cut and paste from this week or do we have new items to add? I have nothing extra. We can copy it from this week if you want. That sounds okay. Well, are we going to talk, sometime talk about fundraising, about how we're going to do this or do we want to have more people when we have this conversation? I mean, typically that gets rolled out of the creative discourse or is it a bigger question than creative discourse? Well, are we going to, do we want to raise money for any other purpose from the community is, and that's where we have to go because we're up against a brick wall with foundations. Except for the Ben and Jerry's Foundation and I guess the Acorn Foundation must have been acceptable because that's where the last application went. But everybody else requires a 501c3. And then the only way to do that would be to go back to the Montpelier Foundation but they don't seem to be interested in doing that, right Cameron? So we have- Doesn't the city of Montpelier have a C3 number? Like if we need a C3 number to apply- We're not a 501c3. A C5 or something. Yeah. Okay. Because I remember putting some number in for this. Yeah, we have an EIN and we have some other tax stuff. I don't know if that is- Yeah. Oh, I think that's what a lot of the grants require. I think that's what I was putting in. Well, so I remember I did ask them about the creative resources about potential funding sources as well. And because they had sent this list of some specific foundations way back in the day and they basically said they were like and everywhere else that were doing this that the towns have covered the full cost of it and even just pointing to that the Montpelier Rocksbury School District has allocated like $100,000 for diversity equity work. And so they were like those were the ideas that we had had last time but like and potentially going back to the city and asking the city for more. So that was their only real advice there. But I can try to see if I can dig up that old email of where they had recommended in the past. But I believe that it included the National Life which I don't think we have the approach. So that could be another option. Well, can I just ask that we add to the agenda an item about fund raising. Just outside of the context of CD of creative discourse. I wonder if they know that my computer just rebooted. Yay. I wonder if, so I don't have much experience in fundraising, I don't know if other folks do. Is there, are there some experts in the community we might invite to help us think through this? Well, can we talk about that the next meeting? I mean, that might be, that was my point that if we're going to be getting into this we really should think about what we're getting ourselves into and we're gonna do it. So I think a, you know, a focused conversation that deserves a place on the agenda. Okay, sounds good. Is it that that makes sense? The only thing that jumps to mind and just thinking cause it might be someone maybe we would invite to a meeting like that chair of the Vermont or the Montpelier Community Fund who presented, who works for the Vermont Community Foundation. Like I wonder if... Christine Zaki, yeah. Like would she be willing to talk to us to give us? I could certainly ask if you want me to invite her to do that. Anybody could talk about that next week, but... Yeah, all right. And so, yeah, I just think opening the conversation so that we have an idea about whether this is what we wanna do and then we can talk about how we're gonna do it. And then we can get Christine to come and talk with us. Only thing I was wondering with Janelle stepping down, like do we need to put recruitment back on the agenda? Is there more? Okay. Yeah. Didn't we have someone visit us who was interested? What happened to her? You folks, yeah. Yeah. I've been sending the invites to her. She just isn't coming. Okay. Her name was... A little bit more than that. Yeah, more than that. Pretty clear. Let's add recruitment. We don't have to talk about it, but I'll add it anyway in case we do. Thank you. So your next meeting will be on the 17th. 17th, 8.30, 10. All right. So it looks like we're ready to adjourn. Is that correct? Yep. Do we need a motion to do that? Yes. I'll make a motion to adjourn. It's one of those things where as long as there's no objection, you're good to go. Okay, great. Well, I hope everyone has a great day. Thank you all. Thank you. Enjoy the snow as much as actual Vermonters can. I will be hiding in my house. Thanks, everybody. Nice to see you. Thank you. Thank you all. I'm sorry for today, but I appreciate it. Good luck, Shayna. I hope today goes up. Today goes up. Oh, my computer is a backup, so that's great. Okay. I once read an article about the most dangerous words in the English language, and the writer was Calvin Trill and said, update. The computer is updating them now. Bye, all. Bye. Sorry. Okay, see you guys later. Bye.