 The podcast like this, who gonna bring it to the table? Boss talk, who your girlfriend favorite? Boss talk, we gon' do it how you want it. Boss talk, yeah, everybody on it. Boss talk, it's a unique hustle. Check it, check it, check it. It's a unique hustle. It's your boy E.C.O. And I'm here with the lovely, amazing official Mr. Mako. What's going on? Nothing, nothing. You know my day will walk on. Man, hey man, check it, man. Hey, we in the building, man. It's going down. Man, hold up, man. We got a special guest in here today, y'all. This guy right here, he don't really need an introduction, man. He's one of those guys, man, that, you know, he been through a lot. And sometime we bring people on the show that been through a lot and know a lot about a lot of things, but we might not have ever got to hear these stories. Just with one, just click of a extra part of a mistake he might not even been here. So, man, this guy right here, a man Kevin Mumford is in the building. Hey, man, live and direct. And it's going down, man. So, yeah, got to answer this one. I know. So, so, so, you know, this is how we like to take it. So, I want to know about you growing up. You're born and raised here in Texas? No, in Oklahoma City, going down. Oklahoma, Oklahoma City, what part? Oklahoma City, the east side of Oklahoma City. Okay, and what was it like growing up in Oklahoma City? Cause when I think about, well, Oklahoma, I think about it being country. Race, this is what I'm hearing because I'm not from here, I'm from Jamaica. So, I hear about how racist Oklahoma is. Yes. See, that's a lot of people think Oklahoma is racist cowboys, but to be honest, well, my story is going to be like, really validating it because I grew up next to a farm. And I tell people I was a cowboy before I was a crib. Really? We're in cowboy hat boots and all of that? I just liked horses. Just liked horses? Yeah, yeah. Okay. So, you were raised with your mom and dad, brother, sister, just your mother. Where was that? In Garden Days and that's one of my books for Garden Block, it's called Garden Days and Garden Notes, it's a community on the east side of Oklahoma City. Okay, and where was your dad during this time? I don't know. Have you ever met him before? Yeah, I met him and knew him, but I ain't never known him. Growing up as I got older, we came closer. Came closer. I used to go see him on my own, yeah. So, you said you could, so what's the thing, cause you know, we grown now. So, we know that sometimes in relationships, mom and dad can't get along, mom keep the kids from dad. Was that the situation? Or it was just, he just didn't wanna come around. I really don't know what their situation was, but he came, he was more like a disciplinary. I guess when I got in trouble, my mother see him, so I really didn't wanna see him. Oh, okay. When I see him, I would almost done something wrong. Oh, okay. I don't know. Now as I got older, young people be thinking like, to mother and father not knowing like, well, daddy ain't no good. I never thought that. And like I said, one of my little views that, I never felt the absence. That's what I was wondering if he wasn't there. So, what filled that void if you never felt that absence? I don't, nothing really, cause- Just didn't think about it. When nobody, and my mother, my sister and brother's father weren't there either. So, I never even, in my home, I knew dudes down the street, one dude, one other dude might have a father and the mother in their home, but other people, it wasn't common. So, I say, I never even missed it. Like some kids now that, my father was missing, they be mad and holding grudges. Something like that. I never, honestly, never thought about it. My mama held us now. She worked at Jim Motors and Montgomery Woods. So, she had a good job. Yeah, so, and I had the hospital, so we ain't never- So, she had two jobs. She had two jobs. Then when she worked with Jim Motors, she just started working there and that's where she retired from. So, were you the type of person? Because, and I'm relating a lot of things to the people that sit in that seat and the stories that I hear. And, it seemed like it's usually the same story. Whereas, when mom worked two, three jobs, that's the reason why you still come to the streets because you were always out on the street because she was never there. It was that the same for you? Well, I don't think so. My dream's always been, like I stayed in my book that I just like wanted to be a part of, like, organized crime. You know, I looked- You just wanted to do that. I looked up to Lucky Oceano and Al Capone and I was Sicilian. So, I joined what I could join, the African Games. So, what exactly about it that glamorized you into wanting to be that part? I guess, fortune, fame, and women, and they ain't won drugs, but you know, it was just the power. And you saw it on the streets or you saw it on TV. Where did you see that, that made you wanting to do that? Because I'm just wondering, was it your environment or was it, because I'm trying to figure out, you know, being a parent now, you want to know what is affecting your children. You know, nowadays it's the phone, you know, that but back then, what was it? Was it the TV or was it something that you were seeing around you? Maybe seeing some Mafia movies back then, but I don't know, it gets just embedded in me because as you know, the streets also have that level of crime. You know, you see people in the big Cadillacs, Fleetwood, Pimps, and all that stuff back in my day growing up. And I'm like, yeah, I like that. They had cowboy boots, snakeskin, I see the boots. So, I said to me, get the boy. I knew where it started from, you know, the streets. And I see the Sicilians, I heard about them on TV. I heard the Al Capone guy and all them, not John Gotti at the time, but Lucky Luciano and all them. Now, honestly, I kept pictures of these people without my prison bed. My photo, I'm full of Mafia figures. I studied, you know what I'm saying, my room, I had cars, Cadillac, Fleetwood was on my wall. I had women, like some kids have women, swim supermodels. I had what I wanted to get. You know, my first car was Fleetwood. I had a six-fold Chevy. I had them at the same time. How old were you? I was 15. 15 when you first? When you first got locked up? No, when you first got the cars. The cars. So, when you got these cars at 15 years old, how did you end up getting the money to even get the cars? Right. My weight was hustling, man. My own boy, it was hustling. How old were you when you started hustling? How old was it given? Well, I guess you can say I started hustling when I started selling candy. Selling candy at school, selling joints. When I was in middle school, I was selling $15 joints and ragged weed like that. So, I started off young. I started everything young. They never kept you in the school selling that weed. And your mama didn't want to where all that money was coming from? She ain't ever seen nothing like that. But at 15, you bought the 15, you bought your first car. I left home. Both of my friends got kicked out because they followed me. I left my home. I never got kicked out. Really? Yeah. That's great. So, when you left your house, because, again, I'm a parent. My child can't leave this house at 15 and say he leave in this house. I'll kill him. I mean, hey. My mother was a good Christian woman and everything, but I, me and my own boys, we had a house out here by the lake, boats and cars and motorbike. We was living a good life. At 15. At 15. Yeah, that was older than me, but I was 15. And I was going to do what I was doing. In what part of Oklahoma this was in? Oklahoma City. Oh, yeah, right there in the city. Did y'all at that age was anybody coming up to Dallas near that time? I came to Dallas on trips. Like, when Redbird Mall was really jumping. I used to come here when I found me trips and all that, but we never came, we came to steal cars, man, come on boys and all that type of stuff. Yeah, yeah. I've been, like I said, I started a lot of this stuff early. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's why the city just kind of followed me whenever I did, whenever I did. Yeah, Kevin. So, I mean, when you think about just times that you could have been killed or times that you could have been taken out as a young man dealing with all this stuff, were there at those times as well, or did you guys just always get away scot-free? I always got away. Well, no chance of, cause I always got away. You always while slicking them. Yeah, I had 20 cars in three years. I jumped out and leave the cars and let them better the car and jealous to the me. Yeah, yeah. So they hated me because he always get away, he always run, cause that didn't mean none of me. I can get it just like that. Like that. Wow. So Oklahoma City, you say the, when you think about country, Oklahoma City back then and Oklahoma City now it's two different places. Oh yeah, more definitely, more definitely. Cause back then it was a little bit more rural, right? No, not really. Cause they really didn't build on development. They did it on the white side of town. Now when I got out of Oxy, we were riding down the street crying because I'm like, where I'm from, why I'm still like the ghetto, the two shorts, two shorts ghetto video. I'm like, were we from, they ain't remodeled nothing, they ain't built nothing. But on the other side of town, they got it. Looking nice. And paved streets and everything, but they ain't did nothing to our side of town. It hurt me becoming like all these hustlers I know from back in the 80s, y'all still here. Y'all ain't develop and put none of y'all in community. I say, well stay asleep then. I'm gonna get the key to the city. Wow. I'm gonna make the grocery stores where we can come. They ain't even know grocery stores where I grew up at to get for the black people to go and shop for food. They there. You gotta go to the white side. Yeah, you gotta go travel. Many people gang out on cars, they don't have no. I don't think it's just in Oklahoma, kid. No, it's not. When you go to all of these different cities, that's something I thrive on. It's going to see, you know, black, it's very seldom you see a black supermarket, a black bank. We had one literally in my neighborhood, like the one in Pierce, I seen when I had to yell on, that was a grocery store right in my neighborhood called Red Buzz. It's been nothing for like 30 years, a longer, nothing. And I've seen a guy when I first got to own it. And I walked up to him and said, man, what you doing with this? You're storing cars in here. You're storing stuff and this is, what can they do? And he told me, man, whatever you want to do, I'll let you do it. If you want to buy this, you want to do this, I'm going to do this for you. I'm like, I'll be back with you. Because you're hindering our neighborhood from growth. And I hear a lot of OGs will say, well, or if they're even in the streets that, you know what, I make my money, yeah, but I go and I buy stuff and give to the poor, to the kids, to the this, to that, to feed them, close them, had them pair the bills, stuff like that. But what you're saying, the first thing I think about is, none of them actually say, okay, let me open, like you say, a grocery store in this area for my people. Let me open a business because you need this in your section for my people. And let me show you how to run a business, being a black person. But most dope dealers, they don't even know how to run a official legal business in the first place anywhere. Cause I always, that's one thing I always fight about. I'm like, if you can run a successful drug business, you can run a successful legal business too, but you just refuse not to, you know? When you think about it, it really not to say the drug dealer that comes into a little money, I don't see it as being as far as much as it is. The older guy, like we had Mr. Luther, we had a Bubba Lane, we had different people who own business back, when they did keep it separate, and they did that purposely when I was young. So when you think about it now, those guys, they had a business, but then they was tiptoeing as well in their situation because they knew that it was certain stipulations, they wouldn't want to go up and go up against. When you look at these guys, these business owners, you know what I mean? They didn't get out of line. They built what they could and respected what they had. But far as educating other people around them, as far as their kids and the people that they, you know, basically grew up in the house with them, you don't see them, those people, I don't envision them having businesses now. Not all of them, not a few, but it's very low percentage. Yeah, very low. One of the things I wrote in my book, a letter to the Princess tonight was, when we grew up, we never was taught. The white people, they taught their kids allowance to give them that. We go, mama, I ain't got no money, I ain't got no money. So we never knew how to manage money. We ain't getting no credit. The thing was the bad thing. The world has ran off of that. The white people had credit. When they kids turned 18, they gave them a new card. They credit is already established. We were never taught to handle money. So when we drugged, we get the money, we blow it. We never was taught how to manage the money and how to do this, how to do that. So that's one of our problems. We don't teach our kids from the gate. Here it goes, some money, learn and say, they do it and teach them the art of managing money. I don't think all of the white kids either taught that either. Not all of them. That's probably the reason I say that, because they get a lot of times different cultures, not just people that don't look like us, because it's not just white. Exactly. It can be Indian, it can be any race, it can be Jamaican, it can be, when you brought up in a situation, a lot of this is taught because of things like businesses. But at the end of the day, a lot of times, these people are basically taught to work, a lot of them. They go into labor, you see what I'm saying? They teach them how to be laborers a lot of time because that's what they're doing. So like you said, your mom worked at General Motors or whatever. In her mind, she would teach you what she's doing to get by. So she'd be like, you gotta find your good job. And you see what I'm saying? Cause that's what she knows has brought her the success to take care of you guys. You know what I mean? Same as a lot of people that work for different companies. That company will never be theirs, but white, black, Indian, whoever, if they have something that's working for them, they're gonna teach you to their children. And would it also depend on the generation that we're in? Because when I say that, like now you have a lot more black businesses that appear compared to what used to be back in the day. And because of that, you have, those parents might be trying to tell their kids, although the kids might not wanna do it, but they're educated to know that I can own my own business. I can run my own business and this is how I can do it. And I remember back, some older people back in the days would tell me like in certain cities that you went to, you would have predominantly black businesses running the town. But it's not like that now, but back then it was. And I'm sure that they would have trained their kids to know how to do it is us for them to either take it over, do it or not. You know, so it comes and goes. Yeah, like I said, I really, I think that with today's society, I think we're in a much better place. I think a lot of those rappers and entrepreneurs that you see out here, it's a blessing that they've been able to change their generations for their, the Beyonce's, the Jay Z's, the Kanye's and all of the futures, the people who deal with the rap and the Robert Smiths to deal with software remanufacturing. When you see these type of elite, the Mayweather's, you know what I mean? You still, these guys are doing things that have never been done before in the black community. So we gotta give them a big ups for that. The Jay Prince's as well. I mean, to be able to maintain entrepreneurship and longevity as long as they have with them. Those rooms were not easy for them either. You said to go into those rooms and to be able to be accepted in those rooms. We think a lot of times just because they got money now, it was easy to Dr. Dre's. It wasn't easy to get in those rooms. And if you watched their story and you went talk to them, all of them would have a similar story. That's what my thing is, I'm a survivor of genocide. They're not just about me going to prison, being a gamer. They said, everybody, like I said, Kyrie Irvin, Kanye West, Jay Z, Tupac. Everybody went through this because they had a foot on their neck. They grew up as a black man in America, just like I did. Exactly. They had opportunity and they took advantage of it. That's right. And they had support and they utilized them. Like you say, Dr. Dre and Jay Prince, Jay Prince involved the federal assistant for so many years. That's right. Now, whatever's going on with him and his son, now they're gonna use that to try to bring him down. Cause you could never mess with him the way you wanted to, back whenever he was living like he was living. No, 100%, in my, and you know, when you think about just you, when you first got in trouble and had to deal with the legal system, what did they catch you on? Was it, was it car theft? Was it drugs? My first charge ever, when I got caught, my partner came resting in peace. He's sleeping. Maybe he came by my house. My mother was in Vegas, going downtown. And he had a, it is kind of goofy. That's the way I blame him. I was, I was probably 12 or 13 or something. He said, he got a check. Let's go to the chest to cast these checks. So me and my other homeboy go with him. I'm a little, I've always been a little guy. I go to the check cast in place with the guy sitting there. The people say, when was you born? I say, I'm 50-something. Why? Man, they call the police so quick on us. I'm like, you're going to police. I'm like, let's go. So we break out the door, but the police catches and my other homeboy drove off cause like now. So that was my first time ever getting caught in my first charge of forgery. So that was that. And I, my homeboy mother come get us out. We go home. I'm glad cause my mother was got a town and they picked us up and got us out. So your mother didn't find out about it? Yeah, when I had to go to court. So when you went to court, did they throw it out because you were so young? No, I was juvenile. They go through the procedure, put you on probation and all that type of stuff. But I did that. And that was my first time. And after that, I really never got caught into the big time. You lived the probation now? Yeah. Well, how old were you when you, when you first faced your real serious? 18 years. 18 years? 18, how old were you? 18 years old? 18 years old. And what was that case about? And let me talk about the cribbing first. Cause you somehow got yourself caught up in the feeling like you was a crib. Oh yeah. Like you see what I'm saying? Like this is, and I have these conversations all the time with all of the, the Texas and Oklahoma bangers and, and, and represent Houston, represent streets that, IQ said represent the street that you ain't never even heard of. You see what I'm saying? So how did, how did you guys end up representing the crib life? Was it, what game, was it fire deuce? Was it? I was shotgun crib. Shotgun crib. I never heard of it. I never heard of it. It's not a gardenia. It's not a gardenia. So how did you end up being with shotgun crib? My stepfather from gardenia in California. And he brought it to you? Nah, he wasn't a game banger at all. I learned about the crib from, I was at lunch. My family was from Compton, Monopart. So I learned about the game banger when I was a youngster. You used to visit? I studied it. Did you visit? Y'all go to Cali? Yeah, yeah. You brought it back? I started this in Oklahoma. You started it in Oklahoma. So when you came back, you started telling them about the crib? Well, I told them about it. I'd like to say I was, it's like an 82 since I've been representing the Crips. And some more people came and my partners came from gardenia in California with my stepfather. All of them trans, LA. General Motors closed down in LA. Okay. And they came to Oklahoma. My stepfather, my uncle and everybody this and that. So his sons, my homeboy's friends came in. So I just, we hooked up like that. So we've been doing it every since. So Oklahoma, now there is a place there where people always know that if you go over to this neighborhood, this is where the Crips gonna be at. Oh yeah. I remember one time when I was young, people didn't even know these stories. My mother might know it, but it was some gangs that got busted over there and dispensed to the country or I think some blood or something. They was like, oh, the gang from LA is coming Oklahoma with it with who? I went and put a sign out across from my house and put the Crip live here. You know what I'm saying? Oh. My mom said, you better go get that sign over there. What? So you all let them know. Yeah, I'm letting them know. Hey man, I've been with this. The Oklahoma just don't know. You know, my family's Crips from out in LA. So you know what I'm saying? The OG, the originals, I ain't gonna say their name, but you know, they Brape Street, they bounty hunters, they Compton, they everything, you know? One thing I always wonder, like you say you are a Crip or you, you know, how do you just join? You just get up at one and say, okay, I'm gonna be a Crip, I'm gonna start it. These are the rules, da, da, da. I heard about all of them. No, but back then, how did you get into being a Crip? So you went to, when you went to LA, you went to LA and you said, I want it to be a part of this organization. No. And what did you do? I can't tell y'all how I got put on. Yeah. That just. Okay, but can you say this then? Did you join in LA and then you brought it here or did you come here and join? You brought it, okay. I know one of my big homeboys, he was telling me riding through the, we put the drugs throughout the city, you know what I'm saying? In the 80s, we had control of the city, but what, no shotguns. And he tell me one day, we riding in the Cadillac, you're like, I mean, you have all these people claiming shotguns or I said, hey, I'll find a wheel. And then before I knew it, that's my neighbor. He ain't from there. My neighbor, but I am and I'll be there. He was right. Everybody claiming shotgun. I mean, everybody, that's my neighbor. You ain't got no choice. You can't be nothing else from over there. Yeah, yeah. So how long, and here we go again, cause I talked to Melvin Farmer. I talked to Tola Marv. You've seen him. If you watch my show, I deal with the ones who originally started it and who started Eight Tray and was with Tucky and they all, this whole situation. So how do you live it till you die? You born in it and you die in it? Or do you get an age to where you start? Because when it first started, Crippen was something that they take to a different place and said it's a... Something that's supposed to help their people. Something to help the community. That's what it's about. The community. That's what, the community. What is it? Community revolution and progress. See the people society makes a negative, you know? Like they came out with drive-by shoes. I ain't never did no drive-by. But the media did and got these kids thinking, oh, I gotta do this to be down. That's wrong. That's why I don't like the media perpetrating. Cause like when they say, like in the 90s, they had a big movement of kidnapping kids. The media was piping, making these people think, oh, I gotta go do this. And they already mental for as they mine state cause you gonna go out and kidnap kids. Something gotta be wrong with you. So the media, they had a whole thing through. I'm sitting in prison when I'm like, man, look at this. The media steady blowing, blowing smoke and making kids, not even kids, but older people do these type of things. So I'm like, I ain't never did no drive-by shoes. Now if you ran into the house and I was busing on you, that's another thing. I ain't gonna wrap past your house and shoot your house up. But you see another reason why I asked you, you know, how did you get initiated and all of that? Because as people join and create their own other places, I would think that if the structure is passed down properly, it would have stayed what the true meaning should have been instead of, you know, I'm just gonna get up and start this and we're gonna start to unwrap this but not go through the proper channels of doing so. You know what I mean? Yeah, let's see. Like I said, I ain't no off brand from the original game. The most, what I see in America when it comes to encryption blurs, it's only a few states that really mimic LA. And that's Oklahoma, Kansas City. And I might say, I don't even know about Georgia and Texas. Some people may, but some people don't. You know what I'm saying? Cause this, like if you grew up with these certain individuals from this other side of town, they are a different gang. They ain't gonna hold true to what they're supposed to be like in Oklahoma and we put it down here. It ain't no, I used to grow up with you. I'm gonna kill you anyway. You know what I'm saying? No, cause you from somewhere else. So if the true meaning of Crip is supposed to be you helping your community, back then when you joined, what did you do to help your community? Oh, I used, like I said in my book. Back then? When you have a power, like I'm explaining to my daughter in the book, when you have a power influence over people, make sure you're using the positive way. I used mine in a negative way. When I was only 15, 16 year old, 90 soldiers up under me. They was all tethered on my stomach. And that's when you had joined? That's when you were a crew? No, that's when I'm the leader. And I got 90 people up under me, but I'm young and wild. I'm not educated like I am now. So I'm just, all you got, go put in some work. You gotta hold this down, this down. We protect our neighborhood. Not knowing selling drugs and this is gonna destroy families, mothers and kids that's on drugs. I don't know nothing, I'm just 16, I ain't live long, but now I know better than to make this household incomplete by taking their mother out, their father out and turning them into a junkie. Like I said in my book, if I were to use my power in a positive way to be more black on businesses, it'd be more black successful people in my neighborhood than junkies, drug addicts and dope houses. Yeah, but you know that now, and a lot of times we say, how can we change narrative with these younger kids? But when you look at the younger kids, they're the same as how you were when you were a kid as in hot headed, you couldn't, can't tell them nothing. You know, you're not making this type of money I am. Money's what to me, change people in a sort of way as in like, you can't talk to me, you ain't got what I have. Well see, now the kids nowadays is wrong. When we said, we listen to older men, older when we listen, they don't listen now. Like when I'm in prayer, I'm like, they dudes don't listen to, they just came out of their mother's womb 20 years ago, 18 years ago, but you know everything. So when you were on the street and you had all the 90 people under you and you was doing your thing, you had all that money and everything, if an older person had stepped to you and told you what you're doing right here is gonna destroy your community. You need to take it and do this, this and this. You tell me at that point in your time, go back and think about it. Would you have done differently? No, I don't know if I would have done it differently, but since I was the first one to put this game, I don't know about no games. I was the example. So no one ever gonna do that. Now the older men with money, they don't run from us. They might think we're trying to rob them. They was their decryption, they can say, they say, we country or whatever. These older dudes, they never seen them like this before. They thinking, we gotta stay away from these young men, but when I got to prison, that's why y'all come in to genocide, and say, man, get out of their old school. You ain't talking about none, they're not come, but now I understand. Could you just take us through just the fact of what caused you to go to prison? And how long was it? I went down for 15 years in the state. The first time? The first time. 15 years in the state. 18 to 33. What, we gotta, just tell me what happened to cause you to be in prison. What were you convicted for? I was convicted for robbery, kidnapping, robbery, kidnapping, two robberies, kidnapping. And what it was, just something happened, one of my partners, they didn't, I just took the far, I told them it was me. I ain't never got caught. I was had a dope case anyway. So I just tell them, I'm going down on me, I just took the far for him. For him and the few more people that committed it. They gave me a hundred and some years for it. They gave you a hundred and some years? A couple of 35, I think 335 was a 10 or one and a five. Wow. And so you would just basically stand loyal to the people that rock with you? I'm leaving by example, you know, you don't tell them, you know, I seen them when they come in the court, they couldn't identify me. They were looking for him, but he left out the courtroom, but never came in really. So they were looking for him and they didn't, but the DA told them I said it's him cause they wanted me so bad. So she said, yeah, that's him. I told them, yeah, it's me anyway. And I just played. So they called you for one thing, but then they ended up convicting you for several things while you were there. They added it on, added charges onto me just to boost the time. We had cricket lawyers, I mean, DA's up in Oklahoma city at that time. They just wanted conviction. There was a worry about people coming from out of the L.A. games. We had one guy, Bob Macy, he's dead now. He's telling people, if you don't even convict these people, man, L.A. or whatever, I'm gonna jump out this window. Now how is that justice? He tell the jury that. And he did it, he was known for it. And they wiped them people out. Now many people, I got a gang of homeboys that's been in jail for him. And then when he died, they come out trying to eat cricket. And him and this lady, black lady, George Gilcrest, and she was his funky. She used fake samples up, got one of my homeboys on death row in 170 years on a murder. She was his co-conspirator. When he died, that's when they brung it out to her. She ran, they ran down to the Texas somewhere. She was on the news reports and all that. And just black balled her, you know? So it was a cricket system back then when it comes to the streets. Yeah, so you go in, when you first get to prison, or when you, how long did you stay in the county? Like nine months. Nine months. You'd never been to prison before. You get sent, you're in the state. What was the name of the prison that you first went to? James Crabtree. James Crabtree, and that's where, how long did you stay there? I don't know, I don't think I stayed there long cause some gang bang and stuff came down, and they shipped me because they think I was a leader. So they had nothing to do with it. But they just got rid of me. So how long did you stay there about a year? Six months? I'm gonna say like eight, nine months. Eight, nine months. The next location you got, well, how was it though when you first went to prison? Like did they try to use fear tactics, the guards and all that? No, no, no. My first day off when I got off the bus, I pulled up, my homeboy was already there. He been down there for a minute, and some more homeboys was there. And they greeted me when I got off the bus. Some young dudes, I didn't know who they were. They talked to me and gave me, I'm like, where's my homeboy at? I went over there, hollering at him. And it was just, back then, it was just like, like Ice Cube said, just like a class reunion. You don't see all the people that you've been gone. You know, some homeboy been gone for shooting for probably a year or two. And I, he was right there. And I'm like, what's going on with this building? These dudes was radical, some youngsters, thinking they finna think up with me to go get this other homeboy. I'm like, hold up, nah, I'm finna go out at the homeboy, man. I ain't, whatever y'all got going on with John got going on. I ain't with that, so it was smooth. So they knew who you was. They knew, they knew you was about that life. Yeah, most definitely. But then they, but you told him, pump your brakes. I'm trying to see. Because I didn't know them. Yeah, correct. They knew you, but you didn't know them. Yeah, they, they my homies from Hoover and that, but I didn't know them. And I'm not finna just, fresh off the bus. I'm free, they ain't put my bags on the buck. They won't, they ain't trying to get another homeboy who was saying was a buster. I ain't, she did that before I got her. So when you, okay, but then they catch you up in all the stuff that starts to happen, all the, all the, all the banging stuff that's going on. They, they say you wanted the main contributor, so they ship you out. Now you go to this next unit. Is it more like a suitable place to work? It was very Connors, Dick Connors. It was Connors and Granny was the ones that was really rocking and rolling. So when you got off there, what was the difference in being at that one versus the one you had just left? Shoot, we had more homies there. More homies? More organized or no? Yeah, yeah, it was more organized. And the homie that was there with it, the first place, he was, he was there. So we all, Yeah, shipped them already. Yeah, so we, it was like, we was whole bunch, everybody from the streets, we knew. It was like 15 of us there in the hall. Was it more racial wars going on during that time or was it blacks against the whites or the Hispanics or was it just black on black? Or how was it rolling over? Just gripping blues with me. Oh, it was gripping blues. So the white boys, they were never really nothing to lose. And then they had the Indians, but I never knew what that meant, IBH. At the time, I was just seeing it on the wall, but I never knew it would, but now in the 2000s, it's when I would get out. Oh, that's what that meant. They weren't really, nothing, now they're killing blacks and everything. Hmm. So they had a gang. And how old was you when you left? When I got out, I was 30. No, when you went? Went 18. 18. By the time you turned 25, does reality set in that, hey, man, I done did some damn timing? And are you still in that mindset of whatever, anything goes? Always, anything goes. I ain't never got out of that. You know what I'm just, you know, I ain't never got out of that cause who I am and what I am. You know what I'm saying? You'll never slip and put your guard down like that. But, and then like you say, I'm in there with my people and we in there, we doing what we doing. It's like, I don't even like to say that stuff, but the yards I was on, it's either they run the yard, the whites, the Mexicans, the crypto bloods, or we run it. I'm never gonna let them run it. So I ran the yards where I was at. I had to drill and had to power. Every time. Every where I go. Wow. And so you, you do 15 years at solid 15. Solid 15, when you, and well, I fast forward to your release of that 15, but when you got out, when you, when they came to you and said you, you made parole or something. I discharged. They turned me down nine times. You discharged on a, on a hundred and some years. They gave me a hundred years, ran it together to a 35. Okay. And broke it down to a 21 in, 14 out. 21 in, 14 out. Okay. And you did, you did. 15. On that 21. 21. And so you come out. What are your plans when you come out? Well, when I came out to the state, my plans, that was so long ago. But, but the one thing we can't, we got to keep in mind is you was married to the same woman that you married to. Oh yeah. To this day. I got married in 2004. Why you was locked up? My car, I got locked up in California for a couple of months before I got, they posted somebody to be back to Oklahoma. So when I got out from there and came back, I was on the out 30 days and they called me and locked me up. And so our plans was to get married then in 91. So how long did you, did you, was it like a high school sweetheart? Did you know her like long before you got married or? No, we, she was, no, no, we didn't go to high school. Kimbell. I met her when I was, no, I met her and I was in the streets with her. I had my son, I got locked up the day before my son was term one. So you've known, you knew her for a while before, since you were 15. Okay. When we got married in 2004, when we was half old, that makes us. And she knew that you were gonna be gone for a while. She rode with me throughout more than 15 years. And so when you came home in 15 years, she was there, she basically, you paroled out to your house, went home. What was, what was the plan? I'll go back to that. The plan, I'm always gonna be an entrepreneur, a business man. Even during that time? Yeah, period, because I don't know how to work for nobody. Yeah. It's, it's, you got the entrepreneurial spirit, you gonna have it, and you can let the society take it from you. And to me, that's a no, no, but it ain't never been why I gotta go work for somebody. That's just not my makeup. So when, when you get out, how long do you stay out before you hit this other bump in the road? I was out for actually 30 months, exactly. 30 months on a run from the feds. Three of the months? 30 months. That's about two and a half years, two and a half years. But, okay. So I gotta go back, because I'm a female. And when she held you down this whole time, because I've heard scenarios, I know people who hold people down, but they'll still go on with their life while they're out here. When I said go on, I mean relationships do whatever. Was she that person where she held you down straight, or she still moved on and you understood? And then once you came home, that was what it was. Yeah, she might not have moved on, but she had experience I'm pretty sure, 15 years. I don't never expect no person not to encounter sexual, whatever. Cheating to me is when you get your heart away. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? You can do what you must with your body, because that's yours, I can't control it. That's like a control thing. But she ain't never let me, my kids came to see me with always. I ain't never went without. She never let my kids, most women, like I say, my friends, we went down, my home where he had a life, life without him. And his baby mother is my friend, my wife's best friend. And all mother friends, they one was wasn't there. So I'm the only one going to visit, they ain't. So I gotta give her that. Cause she ain't no, she could be like them. She never abandoned me. You know, that counts for what it is. I really wanted you to say that too, because I know a lot of people who, I've heard of cases where the man would be so upset, although she holding him down, sending him money, do all the things that you're talking about, that he would be mad that you, you know, you doing other stuff with your body that you shouldn't be doing. You need to wait the whole 20 years on me and da da da, whatever. They selfish. You can't control a person like that because they wouldn't do it. That's real. I ain't gonna do it. So you hit another month in the road, what is the, what is the, what happened? Another distribution. Okay. Cause that's what that was too. Secret indictment? No, just a distribution and the indictment came when they swooped up my neighborhood. You know what I'm saying? I guess they already had something going on before I got out. And I was just as a added bonus to it, who I am and what I am. And my little cousin set me up, you know, I come myself helping him out all along. He was working for the people. Wow. He came to court on you? No, no, he didn't come to court. Me and my other problem was he was the last one was going to trial. I played guilty the week before trial. My lawyer wasn't gonna fight for me. It was his first case as a federal attorney. He was trying to make deals with the DA. So you could get up there in the ladder. Well, you can fire him at that point and get somebody else. You couldn't fire him and get somebody else in that town? It was like you say, it was so many people related to that case. It was like 30-something people that are my homeboys in case. So all the lawyers and their law firms is 30. Anything is a conflict of entries. So you can't get lawyer. Like one of my partners got a life. But they didn't come, they came at you with different stuff at first. So when they first came to you, what did they come with? No, they don't come with you, no deals and nothing like that. So they basically had how much they wanted you to do? Yeah, my only, mine was five to 40. Okay, how much did they offer? I got 13, eight. They know of me, nothing. They wanted me to get down on my partner off being jail. And I wasn't gonna do that. So you ended up doing another 12 years? 12 years. That made me 27 years in prison. So 13 years. How was affairs different from the state and how they treated you? Affairs is bogus. I don't know what the rappers and people say. The state is way better than affairs. Affairs for the fake people. Okay, elaborate. I mean, the dudes in there is, they ain't fake. You got real killers in the state. You got people in the feds is weanies to me. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? They have behind the politics and this and that. I never even heard of none of that. And so I went to the feds. They used to try to convert me to a state person, I'm a fair person. I'm not learning, I don't know how to do time. I'm doing it the way I was raised. And this is, no, I'm not talking about, if I get into it with you, I gotta ask somebody come and fight you. I'm not doing no stuff like that with you. If you get into it with them, I gotta help you do that, man. I don't even know you. I'm not into no Crip cars and stuff like that. You know what I'm saying? Well, how did it, so the gang, so the Crip, the fact of being who you were as a Crip going to the fed, there was not other, they had to be other Crips. Yeah, it was all about the Crips and you didn't link up with them. But they were trying to do the same thing they was doing in that whole situation for the way they operated in the federal system. Politics. It was politics, I guess. I ain't never heard of politics. To me, police do politics. I grew up short. I don't know what that was. And like I say, the politics where they do is trying to control how you move. You, I'm a grown man, man. You can't tell, like that time, 36, 35, 36. You can't tell me what to do. They're trying to keep structure really of what they were trying to do. Break down the paperwork party thing for me. What was, cause you seen it your way, I see how he thinks. He's his own man. He gon' tell, these people that come in and they saying they doing a paperwork party to check what they were coming in for. What was that all about for you? To me, I never really, I seen it. Now I witnessed it, but some people, they might got two sets of paperwork, you know what I'm saying? They might got this one saying they good. The other one is what they own today. And I don't know. I don't know. You're the first person I heard say that. I can't, I can't. That's what I knew. I can't understand it because it's like, okay, you didn't tell it in 2000 and, I won't say 1999, but I met you in 2018, but you working with the police here. You're a threat to me now. I didn't know you were 99. So I don't care what you do. You're a police today. You talking to the lieutenants, you running and telling, you busting people in the yard. The people say that 90% of the people told it in the feds and the 10% wish they had. And I'm like, I think that this is bonus to me. The 10% told it in the feds for a show. And 10% wished they had. Yeah. This is like how I grew up in the state. I so drew hooked in the state prison to support my family because this guy I'm in prison, I'm not, I'm still a father. Correct. I'm still a, so I don't never drop my responsibilities. I'm gonna, I ain't made a, I'm the minimum $20,000 a year I made when in state. So I make this money. I come to the fair. I didn't sell a motherfucker nothing. I don't trust you people. No, no. No, I guess we're gonna smoke it. I'm not gonna share you dudes nothing because I don't trust them. I see them. Yeah, yeah. I can't knock nobody. Whatever you do is what you do, man, but. But they had like the feds, these guys are the ones with the money and. No, man, they got people in there for selling rocks for bullets. That's what I thought. These people is glow life smokers and everything up in there. I'm like, come on, man. No, it's blowing up high. Now maybe they went in the 80s. That's why I say all this politic paperwork, all that maybe worked in eight, but the new breed of people came in now is not what it is. So when you got there, they didn't check your paperwork. Did you have to go through all of that? One of my partners, they knew me. And so, yeah, they helped me with Marlon Berry, you know, helped me bite my case. So, yeah. Oh, no, no. I'm talking about, because from the way how everybody who sit in that seat and the way how they talk, they make it sound like everybody who comes in. You gotta get your paperwork checked. To your people. To your people. To your people or to anybody in there, whoever is the head. I ain't had no head. That's what I have, but my homeboys, that's what you giving your paperwork to. To your homeboys. And they check it out. Okay. But they already knew. Not just anybody. But they already knew you, so you didn't have to give them your paperwork. No, he helped me with my long life work. He helped me do my work, my own work. You're trying to fight to get your life to get out. To get out, yeah. So, yeah, he checked it. He looked at it, but he didn't know me, because I kept on the news. And he wanted so he know. You know, so I don't know. Yeah, yeah. I don't know where it was just. You can just walk up and say, hey man, no, they can't do it because they do it. You do that and you wrong. Now you got a problem. So you can't just walk up and say, man, let me see your paperwork. He showed you his paperwork and he's right. And now you got a problem. Wow. Okay. Yeah, so you hear, when you think about different people, and this paperwork thing I, you didn't hear about, you heard about it a lot. Like when T.I. talked about it, about the fact that manhood, you had to help paperwork party when you go down here. You know, people know you, you know, if I snitched it'll be there, they'll know it, you know. I just, you know, when you think about it from that aspect, you start hearing everybody start chiming in about paperwork party, paperwork party. I've heard, I've had people here to talk about it. And it's just something to where I think it's become something that's kind of, maybe a little popularized. Yeah, that's what it is. It's popularized. So the rappers and stuff got this fist up, Glenn and Rad, because it ain't like they say, it's you, like you in a Crip card, you got to bring your paperwork to be a part of that. Yeah. You got to be a blood, you got to be a Mexicans, Pisces and all that, they want to check your shit and make sure you okay. Yeah. That's what they, that's what that is now. The party, I don't know. I heard of that before, but I don't, that's just people, I don't know. I don't know about that, but I just know about the, like I don't say check in, but you don't hear it. Trigger it, see what it is. Da, da, da. He's good, he's straight and do his point. That's it. Do you, so when you get locked up that next time, I mean, your wife, she still just say, I'm with you no matter what. She down. The second time. Yeah, she was with me. It's the same scenario. Again, you know, she's with me and may did whatever she done throughout the time, but I don't know. I ain't keeping school. I just stay down. That's all about it. What about your kids? How do you feel like your son? It was your son, right? My son and my daughter. And your daughter. And I had a baby girl. Two of my youngest girl. I had her when I got out. You got a two year old right now? No, she's 15. That's the letter to Princess Shania. That's the book that I got. That's Shania. Yeah, so the book is, where can we get these books, man? Cause I, I, Amazon. A letter to Princess Shania. I like this book. I'm gonna, is this mine? You can have it. See, I had to take it from there. I gotta take this. You're gonna, that's really my workbook. I have my back when I go do things, but I always got more. Yeah, cause I definitely, I definitely keep these books. This show you've been on boss talk on a one man. So when you wrote this book, what were you, were you locked up when you wrote this? Yeah, that's when I wrote it when I was in the fair, it's to her. And then to be honest, that's my favorite book. I can't read without crying. Really? It's emotional rollercoaster. And the Garden Block is what everybody know, cause they into the gangs and street life and all that. And that's what is popular. But the letter to Princess Shania, I say that's the one Oprah want to talk to me about. So. Wrote this book, you knew, did you give it to her right away? No, I sent it home before I got it finished. And they, my sister, say she was crying. She read them and said they got to crying. This and that. And that's what I want. Cause it's thought provoking and I say emotional rollercoaster. Wow, I can't wait to read it. That's how hard right there. I wrote it cause most men think it's about raising the son, but the daughter need to father figure as well. And you know, that's, and I'm sitting there going through another transition in my life. And she was a baby. Like saying, well, I locked up, David for my son turned one. I got locked up when she was finna be two. So I really said, I can have no more kids. I always go to jail when I get kids. Come on this time. You wasn't trying to hear it. Nah, I don't want no more kids. I got great kids now. So I'm good. Did you ever sit down and ask her how did it affect her? You being locked up for that long while, you know, she was growing up. I asked her and then she's not open like that. She's not. She's my identical. She more of me than my son is. Be honest. Do you think it affected her? Yeah, I know it has. It got to be. Wow. But you say it didn't affect you when your daddy wasn't even around. I know it, but she's a woman. She might be sensitive. And you say she's more like you. It might not have affected her. I don't know. That's why I say I don't know. Whenever she can open up a top, she read the book one time. I think she called and was asking about it. And I'm like, what? She found it really good. She didn't really, I guess, called for my first time reading this. I know when I got into the halfway house and I was here, one day I was gonna, I said, before I published it, I said, let me read it with her. I'm sitting on the bed and we both cry. Everybody cry, you know what I'm saying? Because I'm like, dang, I'm trying to, she was acting, I don't want to say bad. I can't remember exactly what it was, but I needed to get it to a right then. I couldn't wait till I already got out. Cause I waited till I got out, but I said, no, we gotta read this right now. Cause it's a guidelines to what you need to be doing. So now you're my princess, one day you'll be a queen. So that's what it's about. Man, dope, man. So a letter to Princess Shania by Kevin Moffitt Senior, man, it's hard, man. So, Kevin Moffitt Junior, what's up with him? Oh, he's good, man. I said, he's just like me as well. Like I said, he's a great father, brother. Cause he's about 35. No, he's 32. 32. 32. Like I said, he on his way down and right now it was my grandson, Kevin the third. They coming to Texas. They got a football tournament. My grandson is, I don't even like telling people because maybe you think your kid tried to amp him up, but I'm gonna tell you like this, you my son, you ain't shit, you ain't shit. Yeah, yeah. But my grandson, he's a hell of a football player, man. Every game I go through, he made three touchdowns, every single game. Wow. Like how old is he? I think he, why you put me on this one? I don't know. I'm like my grandma, I don't know the ages. I think he probably eight. He might be eight. Love to play football. If not, he'd be eight January to 27th. He'd be eight. Wow. Love to play. He'd play everything. He's played soccer. I got Kevin footage of him on soccer. He's an athlete, he's a hell of a guy, man. Wow. He don't know he get it from me though. Ha ha ha ha. Grandpa, man. So when you came home, you got to meet him. He was locked up when he was born. No, my grandkids were born. Wow. How was that? It was wonderful, man. They were senior pitchers and stuff. They come visit me all the time. They said, and I'm in the vision one time, my granddaughter's sitting in Paw Paw, I'm sitting waiting to use the restroom in line. Paw Paw, I'm like, I'm like, Paw Paw, I'm like, oh, you talking to me? Ha ha ha ha ha. Cause I, I used to hear that and I'm like, damn, you tripping. What's so, what you want? She was trying to ask me something, but I ain't never heard nobody calling me that. Let me just say this, man. When Larry Hoover Jr., he come on the show. Larry Hoover, his dad, been locked up for 50 years. Now I might as well, 49 to 50 years. He never got to see him outside of prison. You know, and cause I always, when I talk to people, I try to think of everybody's situation. And I'll be like, okay, there's another case out here. Like you got to see your kids. You got to hold your grandkids. You got to be with them outside of those walls. Larry Hoover has never seen his kids, his grandkids. He got, what, Larry got 15, 115 for show. I think he did get to see Larry Jr. No, he get to see him, but be outside of prison with him. He has never been outside of prison with them. He ain't seen his son, who is Larry Hoover Jr. Outside of prison walls. So for you to be able to see, you know what I mean, to be here today, to be able to experience that, that's a blessing in itself. Knows death. And I know you know some other people like that as well. Same way. Same way. One of our saying they daughters is by my wife's friend or whatever they ain't never, one of them is pregnant with us. Then she just told me that day she will have a baby in January and that's his daughter. And she got a couple grandkids. And he ain't got to see none of them. What kind of words of encouragement? He ain't got to see none of them? I mean, not outside of walls. It makes him on his own or some stuff like that, but not. What kind of encouraging words do you give them because they, you know, they all connected to you. Them, your homeboys, your kids. Really my cousins. Yeah, your cousins. What kind of encouraging words do you give A to them and B to the ones who are on the outside? I'll tell them like they know. I live for them. Even when I'm fat, when I'm with my cousins, I found members die. I put their burden on my back. I got to be successful for y'all. Cause most of the time, and I'll beat myself up. People think I'm hard on other people, my kids and everybody, but I'm way harder on myself than I am someone else because I look at if it wasn't for me, y'all might not be in there with nobody's sentence. Y'all follow me. They followed you. And so now y'all in there. So that guilt is with me every day. So I strive to be what I can be. And I got it hard. But like I said, I've been part of the organization since I was a kid. Now I'm 50 years old next year and a couple months. And I'm like about myself because the same people I used to run with and deal with, I can't do it anymore cause they ain't, they stuck. They stuck. They stuck and they don't want to do better. I come home with a trucking company, did all type of opportunities for y'all to come on, man, let's get it. But they don't want it. They don't want it. And I spoke to one of my partners the other day and I said, why is this? Everybody that don't hang around the set, they successful. But the people that be around, they ain't nothing. So I got to leave what we grew up in just to make it. That don't make sense to me. We supposed to be making it right here as a whole. But you got to distract yourself from the rest of us, the people you grew up in love, willing to kill and die for, just for you to make it. Something ain't right. Because they still think of you back then, every time they look at you, they think you're the same person, they can't see the change. Kevin, what's the worst riot that you ever been in? The riot? In prison. Do you know what I'm talking about? The worst riot. And what caused it? Well, I ain't riot. Well, I was in LA, well, I was in San Bernardino. It was the Mexicans, I ain't mob against the blacks. And it sought over phone. Over phone? They wanted to control the phone. I ain't Mexicans, they wanted to control the phone. And me and my homeboy gangsta, we was there, we got gaffled up and we got caught up in down there in San Bernardino. I often used the phone. I don't know nothing about these politics. That's ever the first time I ever experienced it. And this is in fed? No, this is in the state, in San Bernardino, California. And I'm like, this is before I came back to Oklahoma, I came back to Oklahoma, that's when they gaffled me up and sent me to the state. But I got gaffled up in there on my way to Guardina and all that. So we're in their line and man, it was just the Mexicans outnumbered the blacks to, I'm gonna say five to one. So the dudes snitched on us and got us out. In the end of the book, they got us out of the way. And they sent us to the max. Cause we was gonna riot. We ain't bowing down, but the black sold us out. Them the troublemakers. Nah, we standing up. So we go to another side of the facility, maximum security now, where it's really even on a race tip. A couple of months, I'll say three or four weeks later, the Mexicans rode on the dudes where we was at. Beat them up cause I don't even know cause we rode on the Mexicans and they, they cut my eye when we, I threw something hit me in my eye. So they had to go give me stitches in my eye. So when I went on the bus, one of those guys was over there with me. They went to court and got his lesser time and went to back to where they rode it. Man, they had shoe prints and horseshoes, all of them were the, cause he threw a trashcan at them, but he hit the CEO. They beat him with Billy club and all that. They say, man, them dudes ain't I say, I knew it. They going to get us over here. They weren't going to ride. So that was a crazy situation. It was my first ride ever. You know what I'm saying? They ain't ever been in prison. So that right there, it's like all against the Mexicans and San Bernardino, California. And that's in this book. The garden, what's the name of this one? Garden block. The garden block. Man, urban tale, an urban tale. What made you write this book? Really, I seen Monster Cody. He had wrote this book back then. I'm on H block. That's in Oklahoma, the maximum security on the ground. That's where I turned 21 at. I guess I was a threat to the population and everything. So they had me where I couldn't even come in contact with another human being. So I was down there and I heard, I seen on the TV, Monster Cody book. And I read a book called Nathan McCall, Make You Wanna Hall. My first time reading a book. And it was amazing. He was a journalist from out of Seattle, from Washington somewhere. He went to prison. He came out, became a journalist, wrote a book. I'm looking like, I mean, I can do that. Then Cody came out with this book. And my big home OG baby, OG Playboy is in the book cause he been in jail for about 40, 50 years almost. You know what I'm saying? For killing the guy at the Bradley Park and back in Gardena. So I'm like, man, he made 100,000 off of that. So I wrote a book. You know what I'm saying? Cause I can tell a story. You know what I'm saying? So I did it and re-wrote it a thousand times. And I put it out. I say, I'm gonna do it. Man, I gotta ask you a question about being on the Cribs side about Nipsey Hustler. When you first heard he had got killed in front of his store. What did you think about that? Or did you even think about it? Yeah. I didn't think about it. I heard, when I heard about it, I'm like, damn. Cause I never knew his store and where it was located until after the fact. Yeah. We used to go there a lot. Yeah. And my home boys in LA was with me in a phase. And that's when it happened. That's where I was at when it happened. They were like, well, you know, cause shotgun who was in 60s, we don't get along with 60s. And so we weren't really no big thing to us. You know what I'm saying? To talk about it. But when you think about it, I'm like, what happened to his own boy? Kill him. Oh, so I'm like, that's just okay. That's how I go. They envy jealousy. And then they come out with all the other stuff. I don't know the details cause I don't get it. But the envy and jealousy, you picked up on it right away. Well, definitely. When you were in your own neighborhood, somewhere you at doesn't people to get you. That's why I say, I don't got people that's all right with me. I love you, I hate you. All right, people seen you to the grave or to the prison. That's real. If you say, oh, he all right. He ain't all right. Either I love you or I hate you. I don't got no in-betweens. And that's just my motto. Well, you know, the words say, and I'm a Bible-based guy, I said, let your S-B-S and your nose be known. You know what I mean? So you're really right. You either with it or you're not. You're not cause you can't halfway love me. You love me all the way or you don't. God don't even like Luke War. Yeah, I spew you out of my mouth. A double-minded man is unstable in all his ways. So all of this stuff is right there. Exactly. And I live by the Bible. I read my Bible every single morning of my life. I know when you were talking, you said that you love to read. My family's creed. I didn't even remember my mother, grandmother, auntie, no one said cuss word to this very day. Wow. My grand, my uncles was my grandmother, but they preachers and they go down and skip my generation, but my nephew was a preacher. And then I just fade my own way. I said, people say you're faking. On the reading your Bible, you say, man, y'all don't even know him. He was my son. We from the street. He must say, he read the Bible every day. Man, that's him. I said, I don't care what people think or say. They don't make me not a gangster. I'll be going on the lick. God please let me get out of here. I think a lot of people do that. It's just, you know what I'm saying? That's what it is. I just, I know who created me and God don't make junk. We make mistakes. He don't. What's, what is like, what is the plan for Kevin Muffin Senior? What, what, what do you, I know you start you. So you talk to the prisoners. You have a podcast. So what it was next for you, man? Man, like I said, I got this clothing brand. I'm shooting a movie to the book garden block right now. Okay. And the letter to Prince and Senai, a little short movie to that. And I just want whatever God had me to do, man. I'm just trying to do something positive. My word, when I was learning, I'm self-educated. When I was on the ground, I read the dictionary. Cause I can't say enough. I don't know the meaning. So I studied, I studied, I studied. And when I come to call philanthropists, I want to be a philanthropist. That's been my goal since I was 21. I destroyed my neighborhood. So I want to get back to it. I've been wanting that since I was 21 years old. So whatever it is, like I said, my first two million, I'm gonna buy everything that's tore up round that way and make it, make it better. You, you was locked up for 27 years. You've been home for two. Almost. Almost two years. What do you see the biggest changes out here for us when you came home? Cause you really never really just been home. I've been in prison majority of my life. The biggest changes is, to me, I'm gonna save the generation. I think this, cause when I went to the feds, it wasn't no Facebook and all that stuff yet. And now, like getting out of 06 and seeing, it was kind of the same. But getting out of now with all this media and all this stuff, it's destroying us. It's destroying our kids. Because like me and my daughter, she sitting on the phone all day, I'm thinking it's just my household. My friend like, no, don't make it up to me. I'm sorry, I need to quit tripping. Right, and too? Yeah, so I need to quit tripping because, but then again, I can't because, man, you just laying in your bed on your phone all day and come on, you don't even go outside and play. You don't see, like we moved to Texas. I go get some neighbors, your daughter at age, come here. I said, why you embarrassing me? No, these are my kids your age. They gonna go to the same school you go to. I don't need you to help me meet no friends. Yeah, you do. Cause you ain't gonna come out your room and your mama ain't gonna make you. Believe it or not, they meet friends. They do it and they talk back and forth through electronics. That's just the way it is. They don't know how to talk face to face anymore. No, not at all. I ran through the hills. We had hills in my neighborhood. We got named the Big Dipper, Big Red. Cause we played on them. Ran down through the Lake Canadian River and we explored the world, you know? Are you gonna be able to like, are you gonna be able to continue the podcast? Yes, what I'm doing is streaming. I haven't did a podcast. I just did the little streaming and on my little phone cause I like what you told me about dealing with the, you know, like the prisoners, the ones who are not out, being able to stream your with them and then pre-recording it and maybe uploading it to YouTube. That's hard if you can talk to them all the time like that. Cause I think people can be helped through that research. I'm supposed to be doing it now. You know what I mean? Later today is something I'm gonna point to because see the guys I know, like you say hockey is gang forever. I got a cousin in there. Both of them is on Murday Brothers. He started programming to help the kids. He's not alone with shotgun. When you call him his name, he said that ain't me. And when he asked me about that, I say, I condone what you're doing, man. Hold on, what? Well, you know, how can people get hold to you if they're trying to link up with you just for motivation just as if they're going through something because you are a guy that could speak things to them that other people can't because you've done the things that some of these, some of these mother's kids may be facing. They could call you and you may could give them something, some insight where you might have went in a lot of it library trying to fight for your life. And they don't even realize that. I know how powerful it is when you go into a situation and you have to be fighting for your life. So at the end of the day, you know some things that a lot of other people not gonna know when they come down to how to deal with the judicial system. And I think a lot of times our children and the people that look like us are very, very uneducated when it comes down to facing different situations after they came in, came up in an impoverished environment. You know what I mean? So how can people get a hold to you to link with you if they wanted to? And I know I said a lot. No, I got a Facebook page, it's Kevin Mumford Senior and then the YouTube channel, OG Baby Playboy, YouTube channel and then Instagram, I think it's Vic Romero on Instagram and my cards. I'm a personal trainer as well, so. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I remember you told me that. So I mean, just, like I said, I just want to be the last time me and you link. I appreciate you for coming on the show, man. We definitely, we cherish these moments, you know what I'm saying? And I thank God that you're free after being locked up, incarcerated for 27 years and being married for how long? 30, 30 years, you know, how long, 30? We've been together 33 years. How long have you been married? I've been married since 04. Okay. So I don't know, don't count. These are hard to know these things now, come on. Hey, I don't know, I got to count. Same, man. Like I said, I don't know. Well, thank you so much, man. We love you, brother. I appreciate you. And we're definitely gonna be rocking out again. I plan to keep on doing things to try to elevate our people understanding on what our people go through and I think you wanted those keys to help. Just like Toler about to come. So, man, thank you so much for coming on the show, man. And hey, man, if you guys make sure you like and subscribe to Boss Talk 101, man. It's been another great segment of Boss Talk 101. What a boss is taught. And we out.