 Okay, that's a little bit awkward because it's my laptop that's doing all this streaming, but So I have a probably going to be short presentation But I didn't really I was kind of hoping it wouldn't be so much a presentation as the beginning of a discussion and so My name is Alan Akash if you don't know me already and I work in one of the HPC centers of excellence And so there's something like ten of us at the moment at the European level and They're there were in different application areas. My home is is ecam So it's a kind of materials space and there's a couple. There's actually a couple in the material space and I want to talk a little bit about euro HPC and maybe because of My role at the moment I maybe have some information that you don't have and maybe there's some people in the room who actually have more Information than I do, but I'll try and share some things. I've learned in the recent past right in the last couple of months And so the first question I wanted to kind of ask is you know Why even bother right? Why do we need a home right? What's the what's the why would we want a? project funding and Deadlines deliverables these kind of horrible things right? Well, why would we want something like that? And I think the first thing to do is like give everybody a pat on the back and We've actually put a lot of effort and a lot of people have more a lot of people in the room I put a lot of effort in making easy build a good product right a good tool it's capable and there's a lot of users out there and That's that's really good, but of course it comes with Like when it's successful it that with that success comes like support type activities right so more people start to use it and they want to tweet or they don't know how to do something very well or They want this software or they want they want want want so people want things and then the other thing is that it People have put a lot of work in and there's a lot of features out there And you know even me I learned things this week right? I didn't know X and Y was was it was available in easy build and so even now I still learn new things and It has all these features and having features means well Hopefully as little as possible, but at the end of the day there's probably maintenance involved right trying to make sure that everything continues to work and And for people who are coming to the tool and even for people who already didn't know the tool really well There's this potentially training or just informational stuff right letting people know that these kind of things exist Being able to have a discussion about it And then the next thing right to remain relevant especially to newcomers It has to be kept up to date right this is the whole process of of releasing new tool change right every six months This is this there's significant effort involved in that right but to be relevant to newcomers It has to be up to date and and then on the development side I don't know how much low-hanging fruit there is left right. I think we've done a lot of that That kind of stuff and and the kind of things that people are asking for now They're not that easy to do anymore right. They actually require significant development work and and so That kind of work is is that kind of time to do that kind of work is hard to come by And then one of the things that I think is quite important is is that? We really don't do the kind of performance testing and tweaking that we should do especially for like the marquee applications for the big ones You know and and I come at that from my like Center of excellence hat right like there are these centers of excellence that are funded at the European level right and they all Have software involved that are supposed to be you know heavily supported by the EU and From from their perspective from the EU perspective putting money into these applications and we deliver them right? It's not like the software is supported and easy but but we don't have a way of testing and tweaking like the tweaking involved in making Sure they perform really well and all the different architectures it does it does happen in cases And there's definitely people who make an effort in this way, but it's not done consistently right So people have an interest in making something work really really well But for the other ones they don't have that interest so it's not if somebody else is not doing it doesn't happen And and of course if you look at the potential of easy build like it has it has that potential to have an awful lot of people right an awful lot of European researchers and the HPC sites and But if we don't have the money and the time to have an outreach in the support program for them We rely a little bit too much on word of mouth and the word of mouth is good, right? So people if people talk about other people it's usually to tell them it's doing something useful for me So so I mean that's the most valuable one probably is the word of mouth in terms of people trust these people more But you still also need that Outreach program because there are people who are not going to get these words right you're not going to get into everybody's ear Because it relies on a network to be there And maybe some of these people are not inside that network and it's something you see a little bit in Euro HPC because Euro HPC is I Mean I can't remember how many Europe our states are involved, but there's quite a few right and And and there are some of these people some of these countries who are not players in the HPC scene really right So maybe they have a machine or something, but they may not have the way into the network Right, so they may not be able to hear these words right coming out of other people's mouths because they just don't have that Network and and that's something that you could address with it with an outreach program Yeah, so there are a lot of smaller countries in your HPC and Something like easy bill also has a way of ensuring consistency between sites So if you had a scheme where people can move Through the European infrastructure right from their university to their national infrastructure to the praise Infrastructure to the what will the infrastructure that will come in Euro HPC if there's somehow some kind of consistency in how software It is delivered as they transition through that. That's very that saves them a lot of effort, right and The thing about all this kind of stuff is is it requires resources now resources is a loose term Certainly resources means money, but probably most importantly it means time and and and without paying for people's time You're not guaranteed it right so people put a lot of effort into into what we've done so far people have put a lot of their time into it and But they do it like they find a way to make it happen Right they either do it in their free time or they do they're in the work time with the excuse that it helps them to do their Job right so they find the time But if you really want to make these kind of pushes and something like an outreach is this poor program Unless somebody's paying for it. It's not going to happen because it doesn't help you with your job, right? Typically and maybe for some people it Somehow is relevant for a lot of people though You can't just say I'm gonna go to these countries and give tutorials on easy build That's taking a lot of time from your actual work right and your employer might be like I don't see I don't see the benefit of that for me and and so it's so funding is something that could that can help you bridge this kind of a gap and Yeah, and that's exactly it right unless these things are part of somebody's roles Sometimes the progress in ways that you might want to go can be too slow, right? So that's probably the issue So just if you haven't heard of your HPC and maybe some of you haven't I hope that most of you have and Basically what it's doing is taking all the money that's going into HPC on the European level and putting it into one pot And and so why I say easy build a home in euro HPC if easy build doesn't have a home in euro HPC It's getting no European money right because it's in it's in the HPC space So unless you're part of euro HPC, you're not in the game, right? and So yeah all the money all the European money is going in there what do they plan to do in the next Four to five years They want to have two machines in the top five of the top five hundred and a further two in the top 25 Within the next five years and those are going to be open to private and public users and probably mostly public But they really want to see European industry using these kinds of machines And that's the kind of activities that what they would support a lot They want to support people and projects to bring industry into these kind of resources and They they have supporting actions for that So but one of one of the big things that they really want to do is stimulate technology supply Right, so they actually want to see European technology in these top two They want to see European technology where they're going to get it. Well, we don't really know that right, but But this is their goal is to actually stimulate the technology development to generate IP in Europe, right? And in this kind of space, that's a lofty goal, but we'll see what happens and and That's an expensive goal as well, right? So to try and generate hardware is is an expensive proposition I mean they've done it in other places They did it in China, but they threw an awful lot of money in it to do it to do that and and in Europe You don't have that you don't have access to that kind of money And then that you don't you also don't have the justification to spend it in that kind of a way and So with the money that they do have of course the justification is is the people who use it, right? It's the users and that puts a lot of maybe pressure on the scientific space because they are the users right for the most part They're the user they definitely want to see industry, but they're a little bit realistic about the level of HPC usage in industry It's not that high right and you're probably not going to see so many SMEs in that space unless you really hold their hand And bring them to it right and and they would support that kind of stuff But but most of the most of the justification is going to come from the scientific side And that's probably part of the reason that you see things like the centers of excellence And because they need that scientific community to drive these machines forward But a lot of the money will go towards the technology development side of things and So just to mention that there there are actually no relevant calls open yet I checked maybe maybe things have changed in the last two days But there's only one call open at the moment which is the hosting sites for the big machines So people who are actually want to host these big machines There's an expression of interest for that at the moment, but that's the only thing that's open so far They're supposed to come soon, right? So we should be seeing these calls already opening and they said it at the start of this year It hasn't happened yet, but probably you could expect it in the next Two to three months that you would start seeing these calls open up and that's their that's their website at the moment And I should mention that it's not the first Well, we haven't said we talk about getting funded for but we've kind of tried right so so we put in the So easy builder the group put in a proposal last year as a center of excellence and we call it code CoE It was basically software software engineering center of excellence and it was Adapted for the extra scale environment the idea being to bring the good practices and pull them into the scientific community more And so one of those a couple of things we touched on was like see the CI for extra scale machines and The delivery stuff of course so easy building containers and then best practices in general in people's workflows We didn't get the money. You probably would have heard if we did And there was a couple of criticisms which are interesting to think about and to address So one of the things that they push for a long time was was co-design right that you work with technology providers and help design the machines themselves That's a all always a difficult thing and of course as the center of excellence We have to address these kind of things as well and sometimes it's hard to know what they mean by that Whether they actually mean talking about designing hardware with people which is you know We're just not a big enough customer to for the to make that really feasible But they want to because they're interested in in hardware design in Europe This is a kind of a hot topic with them and so we don't let we don't address that I would take a different viewpoint I think there's two There's two aspects to this there's this hardware co-design and software co-design and software co-design is something that could we could have Probably elaborated on more in the proposal and the next one was what does it do for European industry? And we didn't really address that right and so so it's thinking about like It's not our space right we don't really do that But the things that we do do how do they make how do they help industry and actually like there are industrial people using Easy-building things like that right and so we just need to understand like how do they use it and what why did they use it? And then all we need to do is parrot that back right there are people and this is what they do And we can help that other people etc. And so so maybe we didn't do that no and The effort was not differentiated enough from ongoing activities and other projects and this is kind of that kind of statement is a bit Annoying in a way because like you know you make it you make a tool. That's that's fully capable or that's pretty good Right and then they say it's you know you're not doing anything innovative enough even though you're trying to build on this thing Right you want to make it even better right and then the other projects of now It's hard to know what they meant by other projects But if you think about things you could say like something like open HPC for example Right, so why are you doing this different from open HPC and maybe it's important to actually touch these things to say This is how we're different and find something that's they might have heard of before and say you know We're not this this is not the same as this because they do this kind of thing, but we do something very different, right? And and what yeah another thing was that we didn't actually have So we will say we were gonna like bring all these best practices But we didn't have anyone who say who said that we're going to engage with us, right? So we're not bringing a code We're not bringing an application to the game and we didn't have anyone who said like you're gonna all those all these all These great things and we're gonna use them right and that's that's actually pretty big shortcoming because They're interested in particular scientific areas, but we were covering the spectrum right and probably we're missing That community part right like who exactly are you gonna help and and like can you guarantee that you're gonna help them Or that they're at least gonna try and implement what you've done and we didn't have that the other thing They I mentioned is is performance analysis and optimization like how does it actually address these things that also wasn't wasn't included And there are ways that we could have done that too And lacks ambition in relation to exoscale and pre exoscale So they're very hardware focused right and there's gonna be this exotic hardware and how do we how do we address that? And I think this is kind like this kind of thing is a narrative thing you have to make the right story I think because because When they made and when they say this they're thinking in the application space, right? But you're talking about Supporting those applications right delivering the house is the software stack that they need before they can even start to use these machines Right and and this is so so so I think that that one is about the story Maybe the story wasn't told well enough to make this clear that like just so people can use the machines Like we do something that's really valuable to them because we make it possible for them to use it Otherwise, it's just like a mess for them. It's it's too hard to move there Unless they have a simple software where they go like type I need a compiler I type make and everything just works, right? But that's like a very small portion of the application spectrum out there And there's a question on the chat. How is Euro HPC different from ETP for HPC? ETP for HPC is a collection of organizations Euro HPC is like from the Commission and all the money sits in your HPC ETP for HPC is just like a Couple of people who it's it's an organization where they pay some kind of a fee to be a group But they're like a lobby organization. They're a lobbying group, right? So they don't they don't hold the purse strings and the money all sits in your HPC It's a European Commission thing and the way your HPC works in terms of its funding It took all the money that was there in the HPC HPC space in in a horizon 2020 And now it's collected that and it would manage that money from now on and and also from now on It's a joint undertaking which means that When you go for a project there, it's partially funded by the member states themselves as well So it doesn't mean a hundred percent funding doesn't come from from from from the European Union It's co-funded by the member states as well Which is different to the way it is before because that's not that's not how a horizon 2020 works and stuff So some of the things will change in the future in terms of funding and This is this is something else that shouldn't be there so So these are actually the next couple of slides are actually from the commission themselves right so it's from a presentation they give Just before Christmas which kind of gives you a picture for the timing of things and what kind of things are going to cover in the next couple of years and So there's a couple of different colors here There's the blue colors which are things that they say will definitely happen But take note of the big draft in the corner here Things change quite frequently like so the amounts of money that you hear about they check they tend to change So until you actually see it's published and Maybe you just have to accept that that the things might not be as clear as they seem here Right, but they have the types of calls. So these are these are the EPI is the European processor initiative And so it's our hardware stuff. There's two phases to that that they definitely want to happen extreme-scale technology It's the same. It's a hard. It's a hardware thing and then they have the applications. This is in yellow All right, so this they wanted to happen But there's no guarantees and then federating the resources as well a lot of this federation is somehow connected to how price works So so I mean I think the applications call. I believe it will happen the federating one I think that might might change a little bit because a lot of there's a lot of discussion between price and And in Euro HPC about how they will manage these kind of things in the future So that relationship is still it's still evolving And the one the one that I think is probably most interesting for us is this type of call right this this widening HPC use and HPC skills And I think that that's maybe where we'll see what kind of calls come out there in the end But that this might be the place where where easy bill could find a good home There are two things out there. There's of course the SMEs Support the SMEs are trying to get small and medium enterprise to use HPC resources and That's a challenge and We'll see how that works. I mean they're not They want to do things to help these people, but it's difficult like with a big company They can hire somebody who's the HPC guy or the HPC group right with an SME They already have a small staff members and stuff. They don't have a lot of time to spend learning new things Right, so so what kind of services you can provide those people and You'd have to see I think You'd have to see the call to see exactly what the scope is there the other interesting thing is these competent centers This is this is something that's that's coming in the future, which is and a competent center is basically an Organization in each member state That that covers like a certain set of skills for people So if I'm a business for example, or I'm an academic user But if especially if I'm a business and I want to know about HPC It's the competent center that I will go to first right and they will do the initial training courses and they will help me Get to understand what HPC see HPC is and maybe to help me find my way to the to European technologies right so these are the these are the first contact people and That's going to be interesting because because it's going to be one in each member state It's not necessarily that they're going to be this like for example if those member states are already in praise It doesn't mean that it's going to be the same as the praise partner It might not be but there's at least going to be one in each of the countries Right, so the whole point is that these are definitely going to happen in the countries now I would expect that that on top of having the centers in the countries. They're going to have some kind of Call to help support them right to make them consistent right because you got to get them to communicate You got to offer consistent set of services across the union, so and I would expect to see calls That are directed towards that right so so first what are they going to offer? How are they going to offer it and make sure that there's a consistent in the quality of that offering right across the European Union And then communicate with each other and that that that that could be interesting Yeah, and this is it right this is the the the competent centers is more details about them So one per members per member state on-demand services to people Access to an innovation ecosystem, whatever that might mean and to the supercomputers Access to experts training and outreach and then networking right and coordination across the other competent centers so so with this description That there there are certainly aspects of that where you could think Yeah, easy built together with other things could could could find the home The support to SMEs. What's that going to look like? Outreach to try and bring SMEs and Yeah, okay, so this is kind of interesting so the folks to the actual be in the areas addressed by the centers of excellence Right, so basically is taking like well, how do you interpret that right? Well, I would interpret that is is that there's a lot of drive in the centers of excellence certainly on particular applications Right, so so they're spending money in the centers of excellence To make a certain set of applications Exascale ready or at least ready to run in the European exascale architectures and then this money is spent these applications are oppressed open source But they want to get those applications down to two to businesses right to say these things exist They're free you can use them and we have the hardware It's also going to be free to use and however they do that as well But it's it you know so to try and get them in and say there are things there's capable software There's there's the infrastructures there for you. There's the support. There's the training right we have all those things and Yeah, then try and bring the SM the companies in that way I mean there of course it's all forward-thinking right that they think that HBC the space is Something that's going to grow in the future and it's going to be more and more people doing it And so so it's important to have this thing this culture start to start to make its way into into Into the SME environments as well Yeah, the timing for this they say quarter one right I don't know if that means quarter one or January right, but it hasn't happened It didn't happen in January today is the first of February. So let's say let's say quarter one The other interesting one is maybe the applications and That's the optional call that I would suspect is pretty likely to happen and HBC and big data they tend to couple these terms these days, right? So in the joint undertaking they kind of think of them in that they're spoken in the same breath So and these are these are large-scale Application pilots they want they're probably looking for application pilots on the new machines Also, I think the scope here for potentially scope here depending on how they were that that That call for for for easy-will as well And also depends on what we want to do a little bit right in what areas we might want to grow and Yeah, industrial pilot test beds. I mean when I when I look at these things I think like you got to have the software stuff for people like in this right I mean trying to get like industries and then tell them to use this machine And then you tell them that you don't have like they're going to expect a certain environment That's actually might be very hard to deliver right so even like the things like we did with it with the power 9s Right the stuff that we were able to do like we have you know Foss is more or less fully supported right on the power 9 architectures Which would have been really difficult for somebody to do if we hadn't put in that effort right because a lot of things Just like fail for reasons that unless you're a bit of a configure make guru like you wouldn't really know what that means It's just a failure right and so if you're not familiar with that environment things just fail Where so we we have the capabilities to make these things kind of happen a little bit And I think that's yeah, that's my last slide. That's basically it So I kind of wanted to to see the discussion on for the back of that very interesting talk This is a the future you draw draws a big picture, but currently we have price and I Don't know if you work in price of if you are familiar with the price project, but currently in price we have a lot of Perth son months Which are In there in this project and you have to work packages one dedicated to application and another one dedicated to a Unified view of the services across the price center But not even not only tier zero center the big one, but also tier one So my personal feeling is There can be something Something can be done already with existing project within price and Maybe we just need to find a way to to to redirect some of the pms To that's that's the hard part, right? I mean because you are in charge of the project. Well, you like you don't know me, right? Yeah, I mean it's true that that you like isn't chart is is running the show in place at the moment Or at least Thomas Lippert is the head of the organization and with with the PI on the calls, but And and that's true, but there are a lot of partners in place, right? And and and there's a there's a lot of players in price as well And so trying to say you need to spend resources in something that they haven't been doing in the past already Yeah, I think there would be some convincing there and I wouldn't be the one to do that, right? So yeah, that would kind of have to income internally I think from price before you would see something and it wouldn't happen in the next couple of years, right? Because they have their call at the moment and and and then a current call is not part of euro HBC, right? So so they will have to get their money also from from euro HBC somehow, right? So this whole dynamic between price and euro, right? So we have to see what's gonna happen there But like at some point They're also gonna be part some Propundant their funding is going to come from euro HBC as well So this is kind of like we're in this period at the moment where we don't really know what's gonna happen But currently in price Especially on the operational work package You have a sub-task which is use user services and the goal of this sub-task What it is written in the description of work what has been validated by the Commission is to provide a uniform way For users on all of these centers. So here there are rooms so for For any be an easy build initiative. I mean, I totally agree The thing is that people I mean to make the kind of changes like we made in you like right to start We're using easy but in the first place that that's a big shift for people, right? So for the centers, right? So if you talk about more people using it and using it consistently across everybody that might not never happen, right? Because you have people like who have been touched by SPAC as well, right? So there are SPAC Yeah, yeah, of course, but you can do in between you can work internally in the project To To to work on easy build to say this is the main solution for everybody and within the project We put effort on that part But if you want to do something else for instance with SPAC or your own tool At least are you are compatible with the price Command user environment. It's okay. So this way we can found some effort Yeah for that Maybe just because we do not we did not have the good connections I'm a bit curious how many people in the room actually work do work related to price You're really off the same place, but Yeah So not so many right, but there are but there are quite a few easy build users within price right as in terms of the site Yes There is a right a benchmark initiative in price that they run benchmarks and things and so they I believe that they install also Their software using easy build if I'm not mistaken Okay What yeah, I mean I think I'm not sure if it's still the case but surfsara were leading that right So so and surfsara use easy build, right? So it's kind of easy for them Well, they picked up easy build after most of that effort was yeah If you look at that was a long term the benchmarking went on for a long time Yeah, if you look at the the European Raised benchmark suite that they have they have lots of applications in there that we have an easy build But and they have installation instructions for those applications and you say look there's a cement there's a make file for CP2k and Yeah, you run make and if it doesn't work you change the options That's like the installation instructions and if you look at this you're like No, I mean, it's not that easy but not even close So it would be a good place to make easy build and like that properly Standardize it right because they made a lot of effort on on the runs and then the installations are like, yeah I just want to make and it's probably gonna work I mean the one thing I might say is that moving into such a large project It might be hard to be innovative to be like to do things the way you might want to do them or to make to like Do risky things a little bit right there might stifle that a little bit to try and please so many people Just to provide a services, which is Homogeneous across the site already. It's an innovation in terms of the price project Yeah, I mean we talked about this I think like if I look at the what people have discussed during the week There's interesting stuff out there If you look at what they did in Canada that they provide a software extract stack across the entire thing and at the end of the day What is what is easy? But it's it's it's it's about like, you know, gigabytes of space right and a software mount It's a mount point right and you know like in terms of the module path But if the user wants to use it it has to be in their module pad if they don't if a site doesn't want to show it Directly to users. It's not in their module pad. It doesn't exist Right. All it is is a bit of disk space and a mount point and a module path, right? That's it. So so I think That's an interesting way to think about it. You can make a service that's available to people They can hook into it if they want if not, okay but then but there is the possibility is there and and This is a pre-decided. I mean it's it they're you people are using in other places And the technology is there and mostly And then I look at what the guys did with reframe as well and I talk about this these marquee applications, right? I mean to remove the the the onus on people to know how to install these Applications and how to how do you know that that it's efficient, right? I can get a performance number, right? Some applications are good at telling you these things, right? So Gromax will tell you how many nanoseconds per day. How many nanoseconds a day am I supposed to expect? Right. What's a good number like what on my hardware? Like how do I know and maybe like making this easier for people to understand or Reporting it in a way like if they had a range right if you know between this range and that range That's like pretty good for this hardware. This is a valuable information, right? And yeah, yeah, and well, I know you have it, right? But that's what but that's what I mean. It's like this kind of thing especially for people and in the in the In the smaller countries in in Euro HPC the guys who are still paying money, right? But then might not it's very hard for them to actually access the money in your HPC because all the expertise It's in in the larger partners, right? So they're the ones that are going to host the big sites They're the ones with a lot of the expertise and and this is a discussion that's that's that's in Euro HPC That the Commission is worried about is is the participate participation of smaller countries What are you going to do for them like so they're going to put that they promise to put money in But what's the benefit for them in terms in return, right? So how are they going to get something out and you have to find a way to include them with the Realization that maybe they're not as experiences that are people maybe they can't bring as much in terms of the knowledge Pre-existing knowledge, maybe they can't bring enough as much to the table, but that doesn't it doesn't have to be like that It could this whole widening thing is that you can think about but there are services we can create We can train people we can provide these things in our countries that they have HPC machines Typically, right so and just help them do a better job They don't know all these things about how how things how efficient something is supposed to be or these are things You can all you can address right and you can share Just to add something really concrete. I was talking to you about this operation work package and this user services sub-tasks I am in charge of this sub-tasks and There is this price-common user environment concept, which is currently not in a very good shape, but This is already in the description of work So if we put this common environment to a higher state, yeah to a very good shape with the builder Nobody will see an issue. The only question is how you can use that To get a real benefit in terms of funding because the issue here It's to get people to help you to to work on that so so for me in the sub-tasks to just Open this subject and to to to start something to to to to do a really better job. There is no problem the big point is How you get into the work package to get the funding whether you at Ulish or you From VSC. I don't know you are in place now. Yeah But no, you're not right. I mean Yes, yes, I know one and the guy from scenario probably knows best. He's not he's watching In Belgium, it's complicated because Like always right so officially Belgium is a partner in place But through the French speaking part. They are their contact points Which makes it difficult for the Flemish sides to like actually be involved in stuff, right? It's a very weird situation There is a joint meeting quite often between all partners in Belgium involved in praise I Can assure you Stefan is going to it actually so He's actually spends a lot of time on praise so it's The collaboration is quite good and actually Even though most science money is not federal it even looks like for Euro HPC There will be a huge amount of federal money also Yeah, I so so I mean No, this this whole discussion is interesting because you could also think about that It could be if there is some call where things fit it can be mutually beneficial thing, right? So praise is a praise is a legal entity, right? So it could be potentially a partner in in a project we made a call and obviously that would help that project Right because obviously the Commission is very familiar with praise if praise is on board with something that we're trying to do And and this these lines these connection lines are drawn Then that can be useful and the same like you know We have that we have there's a probably people who are connected to other centers of excellence in the room Right, so if you can get support from centers of excellence as well There's also another project called which I'm also involved in called focus COE Which is a connection point which is a kind of a coordination center of excellence for the centers of excellence themselves, right? So try and connect things between the centers of excellence So you might be able to connect to that project as well, right and say through them you go to everybody else So I Mean I think depending on exactly what's in the text in the next couple of months that the scope for a project is there And then it's to think about you know, how interested are you like because you know projects are our efforts, right? And so you're gonna need like your your Institute to To give you the nod kind of Maybe just last point to add is that the the sixth implementation of the price project will start in a few months So this is a usually the time that All these tasks are precisely defined and each partner say I want to work on this and that so maybe Yeah, but So you said this is too late because everything is already defined bus But as I said, let me just repeat that for people on the on the stream So he's just saying that like the proposal as well But you already may improve the pms have already been allocated and that does not really scope to But as I said Not not not completely it depends a lot as I said From a technical point of view in my sub-task, which is already defined There is room to say afterward with we will work on easy build no problem and on the PM distribution the distribution is currently made for partners, but partners means Country and then within the country. It is not yet defined Okay, so it's it's done in major but in each PM that are already spread Maybe it's not already Assigned to a specific task. So if you for instance, you have 10 pms Maybe you can say okay. No, I will put a 4 p.m. To 4 pms to to to work on on this easy build part So just to mention that everything is not settled yet But to do an efficient things here Because you already do a great job. What's missing? It's more people from my understanding. So Dedicated time so you need to to get Enough pms to do quite a nice a nice job Anyone else who has some thoughts Guess it's all a bit up in the air right now Yeah, I mean the money it's decided right, but then the actual cause things changed right and and yes There's a lot of political interest in what these calls look like right so so so they might What was presented a couple months ago could change significantly by the time the falls actually come around but for sure this this widening perspective and and the EU concern about the The smaller countries are the ones who are not so represented in the funding that has gone on in the past Right, so this is an issue that they raised with the centers of excellence. There's too many Established partners in there and there's not the distribution right there's not there. What do they call them the? Can't remember the like the 16 countries who I can't remember but them But there's not enough Spread of the money right that there's not you don't see partnerships with smaller countries who don't have the resources and things like that And this is a big concern So that might be a good doorway I think and and yeah I think like in terms of the number of countries in the room right there's quite a few were well represented, right? Yeah, okay, we'll keep an eye on that and yeah, we'll certainly keep in touch How the calls go and we'll try to involve the people who are interested so if you're interested and maybe Helping to look into these calls or being involved in an effort like this. Let us know We can keep you in the loop with what's going on