 Even more stunning to us because I really did not expect this when we asked them if money were not an issue Would you specialize in one of these sectors of the other and almost across the board? They said no, we would distribute our time more equally among these sectors because we actually Really learn something from every one of them And here's an example again. I don't know. These are just slides are so dark Is it possible like these lights here are just so bright? Is it possible to change the lighting at all? just Are you? No, they just I'm used to seeing them so much brighter. I think that's what but anyway This is a wonderful woman whose name is just escaping me at the moment. I can't believe it is who is a Filipina American But she's also a Native American an African American because her father was in the military service When she was born in the Philippines and she's an amazing visual artist This is an example of her sculptor work, but actually her main job is being her main paint job is being a drag king So it turns out then burlesque. There's a small number of women who play men and she is really good at this and but her community work Consists of this marvelous group that she formed with other Filipina lesbians and they do these humorous performances that are Addressed to their own Filipino community about being Filipino lesbians And it's a really really amazing you can just see from the group the how much fun they have and you know how supportive they are One more example Marcus Shelby a wonderful bassist jazz bassist here in the middle Has a big band jazz big band in San Francisco He has really done some of the things that Roberto and others were talking about this morning about being you know Preservers of history and reminding us of our history. He's done a really wonderful job of this One of the things he's done is to do these oratorios about African American history and his first one was about Port Chicago Does anybody know what Port Chicago is? Roberto knows it is in World War two Port the Port Chicago explosion at an ammo ammunition depot in the Bay Area was the single largest You know in the United States felt the fatality of World War two and it involved 400 African American workers. They were actually sailors in the Navy When this huge, you know ammunition thing blew up and they died and the remaining workers went on strike and said you know We need better health and safety Conditions and they were given dishonorable discharges by the US Navy Marcus Shelby wrote this oratorio and he took it which was many pieces and took it all over the Bay Area to communities and And he found survivors that were still you know lived through this experience and had you know had no money from the Navy or no compensation recognition and the result of that was not only for this community to reconnect with this experience But also to get them you know get the Navy to make an apology and change their lives So what one artist can do is really pretty amazing and he's also done one of sugera truth Which I haven't even heard of see he also runs a cafe called cafe Royale with a partner in San Francisco And in addition to providing studios space for visual artists and musicians he Every winter every Wednesday night. He gives a history of jazz Session for free to anybody in the community who wants to come And sort of explains how the rhythms are come from African music or how blues turn into jazz and then they perform and Jam and you know again, it's the idea of community service This woman tomorrow hot one probably gave us the most articulate because we did many interviews also In the Bay Area in LA. She gave us the most articulate explanation for why she really loved doing this crossover work And it went as this is she's a top Hollywood studio musician. She's probably on about a hundred and forty Film score recordings and she explained to us how they do it which blew me away She said you walk into the studio. They slap the music down in front of you. There's no rehearsal You know, there are other musicians You just have to play it perfectly the first time through and your instrument can't be have any Individual character. It has to be just perfect and you don't play the whole piece of music You only pay the part they're gonna put in the film So this is like, you know And on the other hand she works for two of the regional nonprofit symphonies in the in the Los Angeles area And though she describes as Really working with other people getting a lot of attention from the conductor rehearsals working with people in other art forms really, you know Bringing the best out of the music and is a very satisfying thing. Of course it pays a lot less So but she defends both of those experiences and said that even the studio music experience Really kept her on her toes and was a very good discipline and that she really learned a lot from it So I thought that that was a very articulate, you know response to that as a whole As you probably know artists tend to be Well educated, although they're they're all really if you looked at artists across the board You find many who would have you know, no education to a Bill Gates story or something like that But it is really true that artists that report in the census that being an artist is their major occupation or more I have to be white And non-immigrant than the populations as a whole the places that they live and these are what they look like from the census for Los Angeles, San Francisco, San Jose, etc And and also the immigrants down to one thing that we felt really good about in our servers results We had worked with many many organizations all over California to reach artists was that actually we had lower Numbers of white people responding than the census did as a whole, but we did still under reach Latino And Hispanic respondents even though we tried very hard and had you know We had Vietnamese and and Spanish and other versions on our website and that's just an ongoing concern part of it is the fact that Higher education is often really part of artists experience and that's less accessible to a lot of people Now one other thing I just want to mention as an economist There's a huge you know their whole group of us cultural economists and There are actually there's a famous article called the starving artists myth or reality And in it the guy really argues that artists actually are really willing to work for less Because they love what they're doing they feel what they're doing is really useful and the Buddhist idea of right livelihood And so they don't care as much about money and I think this is true you know again at some artists and not others, but I think that the The really interesting dangerous thing right now is that there is you know There's this huge emphasis on you know We everybody needs a college education and then there are these attempts to really Redo college education by saying some careers are worth more than others and there's this very very Terrible study by Carnavali at all out of Georgetown Which is called you know work for hire and really you know suggests that there are People are overcredentialed so a lot of artists are overcredentials because they make less money than people in other fields And they should be studying other fields that's the implication the implication is that money is the only important thing And it's yeah, I really am just warning you because you're going to be hearing about it It's a very big debate out there about this right now And I think it's really important for us to defend the right of artists to you know pursue the things that really make them happy and Not you know believe that that I'm not saying that artists shouldn't do better than they're doing and many of them want to one of the really interesting Things we've learned from the strategic National Arts and Longline project, which I serve on the advisory board for it I think is an amazing amazing effort. It's we have five years of survey data now from Arts high schools conservatories colleges and university arts programs From graduates of those programs and what their experience has been as artists what they think about How their education was and almost all of them say that they didn't get enough training about how to have a career as an artist I mean it's just sort of universally there But one of the really interesting things we found is that lots of them are working within the arts lots of them in arts education design fine arts and musicians if you're you might be have a hard time and so on but Many of them are working outside of the arts in all kinds of different occupations Administration, you know personal care. I can't even really read them here. I don't see how you could possibly either And when there's surveyed about it many of them argued that their arts training was very useful to them in the job That they're doing so that's another really important thing to really keep in mind And we just had a big conference around 3 million artists and we had one panel of basically scientists psychologists and education professors Documenting all the scientific breakthroughs that had basically come from artists and it was really mind-blowing very wonderful And I think those papers will be available soon okay artists really also work in many industries and There There are one side of industries you kind of call the cultural industries because artists are a large Portion of the workforce. I don't mean 50% but they're much, you know more prominent in those industries And they are in the economy as a whole and then there are other industries Just where there are a lot of artists because they're big industries So these are the cultural industries the top one is a throwaway industry because they don't know what to do with Independent artists so they just sort of bundled them in with performing artists and But anyway, and you can see they're 45% of their industry. Why am I getting yeah, okay? Sorry, and I'm just getting used to this new thing here But also other professional technical and scientific services those are photographers and they tend to work in the things that are classified And then the other ones are pretty obvious sound recording motion pictures radio TV broadcasting advertising publishing religious organizations You know artists form You know five times larger share artists in religious organizations in the economy as a whole and by the way a third of all American Musicians that report in the census work for religious organizations. Think about that I just gave a really interesting evening talk at a Cornell University when I was a guest there for a week on Why can't we talk about religion when we talk about art? And I'll just leave that at that for the moment Okay the industries that Employ lots of artists for where artists aren't a really big part of that part of just the definition of these sectors civic organizations, etc printing Management amusement gambling recreation colleges and universities 20,000 Artists in college you and by the way people are supposed in the census if I'm teaching a university teacher like Sonya I should be putting down teacher and that's what I always put down I never put down economists, but at their universities employ a lot of other artists in other forms Computer systems restaurant and food service elementary and secondary school So artists are in a lot a lot of different places in terms of the industries that they work in This is why I threw in because I think it's such a fabulous depiction of how complex Artists relationship is really to other elements in the economy. It's a wonderful diagram done by Bill Byers Who's a professor of geography at University of Washington for the mayor's initiative? Seattle City of Music which came out of musicians in Seattle and venue owners complaining about the city's type regulations on noise and other things and turned into a very very positive Relationship, you know, eventually by electing a music friendly mayor So he asked Bill Byers to do this. They will what is the music industry in Seattle? Isn't just really the symphony orchestra and the stuff at Seattle Center and these venues or what else is going on? So this is what Bill found and he did it by going out and talking to everybody So up here in the corner up your upper left hand corner of musicians and down here are consumers And these are all the different actors that are really involved in this process So up here sheet music writers and composers instructors instruments instrument repairs all the musicians service people For the arts so a whole bunch of people there They're interacting with then this is live music venues here all music and all the different things that are involved with that The venues themselves the monitors the speakers live music can consume via live broadcasts like Prairie Home Companion involving other kinds of devices. This is the Recording industry right here again lots and lots of different industries involved in right down to wholesalers and retailers This one is digital distribution of music which is online really, you know Retailers digital distribution streaming and so on and this one is music on other platforms like games media movies and everything else So really it's and actually there's a wonderful future music coalition and a young woman named Jean Cook was doing amazing surveying of musicians to find out just what their Relationships really are to these other sectors and one of the things she's uncovered is that you know the the incomes that Musicians report on the census. They're not subtracting all their costs from it So actually they're making a lot less than you would think they are which is not really too surprising to us, right? I kind of have a feeling about that overall This by the way is reproduced in my City creative industry strategy, which is my portion of the Otis creative economy of report Which was published in December and unveiled in LA I'm gonna talk some about artists in place because I have been teaching in urban planning for all these years And I've always I'm really a regional scientist. I'm an economist attorney. Why is why is there? What is it is the mic? Oh, it's cuz I'm bumping into it or something. It's like So if I could just quiet down So if we really want to understand Placemaking an artist we should know something about where artists are So I think that I've spent a lot of time doing this and I really think these are interesting These are the numbers from the 2000 census again the 2010 there just isn't this same long for an Occupational thing you have to use the American communities array. So this is the kind of best we have and It's not changed really that much since then so basically what this says is that there are three times as many artists in the LA Metropolitan area workforce, then there are in the United States as a whole and these are the other You know cities that have over representations of artists in their workforce, New York, San Francisco, Washington, Seattle, Boston, Minneapolis, San Diego, Miami Where's Chicago? Well, that's interesting Chicago is only about at the US average and that's really because of the composition effect And that's because they're actually still a lot of blue collar workers in Chicago So they make a bit bigger part of the workforce so that artists don't look as big but actually there are you know really really large numbers I think I computed that there are more artists in Chicago metro area than LA But I can't remember sure if that's true now interestingly I put Phoenix in here today So Phoenix in 2000 was just a little bit below the national average some other fast-growing places were below San Jose, Houston, Texas, and then there were some older industrial cities that were below But I think the bottom line here is that really there are some older industrial cities have done very well In terms of making of being artists friendly and nurturing the arts and that would include Boston and to some extent Minneapolis and New York And then there are some that have done poorly and vice versa the same thing with fast-growing places I just also like to point out that Performing artists especially are very concentrated in LA in New York and that's because of the big media industry So you have very large concentrations there musicians are the group that are the most spread out You know it's kind of most balanced across these metropolitan areas And part of that is because so many of them work for religious organizations, which are very local serving Artists work varies a lot from metropolitan area to Metropolitan area because of the nature of the cultural industries that are there. So these are the numbers for the concentrations of visual artists oops visual artists and What's interesting here is that 20% of all visual artists are in the motion picture and video industry in LA compared to only 3% in the US as a whole and The only other really kind of big standout for these set of cities is that Chicago 16% of our visual artists work for the advertising industry compared to just 5% in the US and Minneapolis, St Paul also has a very strong advertising industry and has high numbers of visual artists in that industry and Performing artists a really interesting one is Boston 42% of performing artists work in the radio television broadcasting and cable industry and That's quite a bit higher than the US as a whole and that's there really is a you know a big specialization in that industry in Boston now artists are also on the move we hear this a lot and it's a part of the whole cache You know my artists moving in and moving out I'd like to point out that in American society the average person moves every five years Some of them just move you know from one house to another within a metro area, but a lot of the move across state lines There's also a very important Age-core-heart migration where most young people like you that are going to college You know move Especially at a state level people come from small towns to bigger towns and so on and so forth And then there's there's another migration later, which I'll show you but it is interesting by occupation that some Occupations move much more than so actually turns out that scientists and engineers move the most So you know in this five-year period that we have the census data for we don't have any of this anymore This is all gone in the 2010 census. There is no question like this. Where were you five years ago? But interestingly they have very low levels of self-employment So scientists and engineers have really good jobs. They have jobs with companies with the military industrial complex and with government big government labs and universities So but the interest the next group is artists So artists who are in this kind of design and are tearing sports, you know occupation And again there their self-employment rates will blow here just because they're in with these other groups But they also move quite a bit So where are they do they move in 2000 compared to 1995? LA Received two artists for every artist that left and here the actual numbers 20,000 moved in and 9,000 moved out and you can kind of go down there Phoenix also was a big net gainer of artists Now that's because Phoenix as a whole grew fast So it would have gained every occupation a lot and the numbers are much smaller, you know 2100 moved in 13 Under left And so you kind of going down like interestingly Minneapolis, St. Paul Which you would think would be an arts magnet because of all our marvelous capacity lost as many artists In fact is slightly more than we gained and yet in that decade We are rate of artists increase was one of the highest in us So what's the the bottom line? We are home-growing more artists than most other metropolitan areas and that's an interesting story that I'll tell you a Little bit more later again some very low you know Artists out migration both from the fancy fast-growing San Jose and from Houston very interesting now This I think is one of the most interesting things I stumbled over I just did this almost by accident, but I thought well Let's see if there's any age relationship to migration of artists and we found for Minnesota a tremendous amount So basically the maroon bar is Minneapolis, St. Paul Twin Cities area 3.5 million people out of 5 million people in the state of Minnesota the yellow line is the rest of Minnesota and What we found was this amazing out migration of young people 16 to 24 and 25 to 34 so this is the college and post college age now You're gonna have big migrations of young people out of those places anyway, but extra big for artists and you know We know why it's it's where you go to you know Really cut your chops and do theater and everything else and and meet people and so on and so forth get more training But this is the interesting thing. There's a reverse migration in this age group 35 to 44 Big big game like 20% gained by greater Minnesota and 10% out migration of artists net out migration of artists from Minneapolis St. Paul metro area. So what is this about? This has got to be about Established artists who are really feel like I'm a visual artist. I can get a beautiful old farmhouse I know people like this and you know, I don't I have gallery representation I can come see my friends when I want or I can travel to perform if I want or I can write my book and Might send it to my publisher in New York. I don't need to be in the Twin Cities Maybe they're going home. Maybe not who knows some of them are some of them aren't and So that's just I think a really interesting phenomenon. The other group is 65 and over so Again artists don't have to retire and many of them don't and so they tend to also Actually people in that age group as a whole tend to leave metropolitan areas and go to the beautiful Pursuing recreation places between 55 and 70 or something like as a whole just really interesting also artists are Across the United States more apt to be city oriented and to live in the core city or the inner city rings And this is data that we did for Minnesota again from the census So this is Minneapolis this thing where we actually had so many artists We could cut it up into for statistical reasons into three chunks and show where they were and say Paul and then and this is way This is you know like 25% and above of the national norm and this is you know above the national norm And all of this is really you know below 75 percent below the national norm for the sheriff artists in the resident workforce They work so that's a really really strong and also we found that Performing artists were most likely to live close in followed by musicians and writers and Visual artists who tend to be more do their work more independently Were more apt to live farther out. This is what it looked like for Minnesota's a whole I think this is also really interesting so You can see that in northeast Minnesota in southeastern Minnesota. They're actually more artists in these areas Then there are in the suburbs, you know, the farther out suburbs of Minneapolis, St. Paul There's another really interesting observation about and I always like to say in fact I wrote this piece for Steven Tepper and somebody else's new issue on working occupations called artists live everywhere Because there's this kind of myth that artists are really about, you know, big cities and inner cities And that's why we think they're gentrifiers. We forgot to use the gentrifier word by the way, you know In our our stereotypes of artists and yet artists live everywhere This is the map for like LA that we do from our crossover data from the census and you can see this really dark stain here This is Hollywood basically so they're like eight to ten times the share of artists in the resident workforce here Then there are in the nation and all also in fact all of LA except these areas here Which this tends to be the African-American neighborhood in the Latino out here They have under the national average share of artists in the workforce But there are many many of them actually who are making music and creating beautiful costumes for you know Bolivian festivals and things like that that just art don't register as artists in the census So there's still a lot going on there Interestingly, this is one of the few exceptions where writers tend there are a lot of writers in this area And that's because of script writing for Hollywood, but mostly artists writers tend to look further up out here You have lots of musicians and visual artists in those neighborhoods I'm just going to finish by talking a little bit about Some organisms some of the just the support systems for artists I don't want us to forget that artists themselves have created amazing Organizations and this goes by with springboard as an example of them There are a lot of unions some of them have been around a long time and some of them do wonderful things the actor skills has An actors fund that helps to build and run housing for retired actors Because most of them are too poor to live anywhere both in LA and New York. They have big Complexes where artists get to live together imagine what that would be like In their retirement years National Writers Union organization I belong to that's affiliated with UAW and for a long time You know offered us very good health insurance through the UAW the freelancers union a really interesting new Organization relatively new in New York But working across the country to try to help all those young people who are already You know have become contractors doing IT and web design and all this other stuff try to you know Have some way of actually organizing and getting better pay and benefits Professional associations are just so many of those the composers forums based in St. Paul And it has chapters all over the United States the American composers for them the National Association independent artists is started by visual artists Who go to high-end juried art fairs around the United States and wanted some way to communicate with each other about what art Fairs were worth going to what kind of work sold at them what the weather was like how well the art fair was young Run and now they've ended up actually making some money by consulting with art fairs with people who run them about how to make Them better for artists, so just they're just amazing example of how artists even though they're atomized in the work that they do have really Often atomized work together and their wonderful service programs for artists the Center for Cultural Innovation in LA They have been just doing wonderful work for a long time have two versions of their business for art book out springboard another amazing example I Did a big project with the Center for Cultural Innovation called the San Jose creative entrepreneur project because the chief strategist of the city said Oh my gosh, we built all these art palaces in downtown San Jose and still the place is totally dead and empty We need artists and they looked at my numbers and saw how low they were for San Jose They said oh my gosh So we did this wonderful project with them for a whole year across the whole city government body in every age The agency was involved and we did a survey of artists. We had an artist town hall that 300 people came from we learned a lot of interesting things We learned that in San Jose they didn't in the area. They didn't really feel that housing Housing was a problem, but workspace was really a problem and that was somewhat unusual and so on So and now they're implementing a large range of things including workforce development programs that will work better for artists And so on there are some great web based resources for artists Basically regional Minnesota artists org any artists in Minnesota can put a website up there with information about their work And where to buy it or where to go see it and so on Chicago Chicago artists resource which was a city-run thing and now I think the city is under the new mayor You know spun it off in some way art home Which is a new project based in Brooklyn, New York to help artists buy homes is working all over worked with springboard on the really interesting project this year So and I just want us to put in a pitch for dedicated spaces for artists for as good as I think some of these organizations like unions and Artist services are in my experience the thing that most explains why artists are overrepresented in the Twin Cities Are these extraordinary organizations two kinds of organizations artist centers and artists live in workspace that have been built up over the years And I'll just explain them brief briefly This is the artist center study we published in 2006 that Profiles, I think 21 different dedicated spaces for artists artists membership organizations You know founded by artists built by artists governed by artists serving artists. This is the open book It's the new home sixth home of the law literary center and also houses the Minnesota Center for the book arts and a small non-profit press and If this was founded by Garrison keeler and a bunch of other artists who came out of the University of Minnesota Oh, where are we how are we gonna make a living as writers and they met in a loft above a bookstore that somebody gave them for free And one night somebody said do you think if we taught offered to like a course for poetry for people? Anybody would come the guys named with Jim more and and he said I'll do it I'll try and he sat up there He said he had no idea if anybody would come through the door 30 people walked in the door and they realized There was an adult hunger for learning about writing and being with other people and learning about it and so on so the law literary Center has amazing Spaces all these dude. This is a outside of their Reading space which is in the back. They've just come out of a reading and they're all moving these artists design chairs around And they're talking about it and having a really interesting discussion. This is a writer's studio I thought when I toured this building and they're opening in 1999 I thought who would want just a desk and a window and a chair and no phone or no anything and you bring your computer in and The answer is a lot of artists including this guy Jim more who says he can't work at home He can't write poetry at home. He comes here to write it and you can keep your stuff in a locker outside the door This is there. There's a gallery in the far side in an open space and we have about At least a dozen of these that are discipline specific So we have the writer's loft the American Composers Forum the Playwright Center All of those started in the 70s by artists then adding on over the decades now We have a textile center a high point Center for printmaking etc. All of these are membership Organizations and that's a big part of their earnings and some of them have artists co-op some of them actually have studios Well, you have a northern clay Center the textile Center where you can actually have studio space to work and They offer people a chance to teach and make money by teaching and beginning people to apprentice to really great people to hear Their stories they bring in some high-end artists from around the world Thanks to our generous foundations in the Twin Cities They have the textile Center as the greatest fabric art library in the world and They do membership shows they do other kinds of shows they have jury gift shops So it's really an environment I really believe in this idea of the dedicated space where you get to really spend time you walk in the place You feel a sense of belonging that it's yours. I feel that way. I took to create a variety horses at the loft I feel like I belong there and That I think has a very powerful and ongoing influence there It's another kind of artist center Which is also membership run and run by artists and started by artists that is devoted to communities and neighborhoods rather than Disciplines and this one is intermediate arts and it was actually you see video in the beginning It was not taking video out in the Vietnam War period into communities and helping empower them they moved into this neighborhood and they realized they were in the middle of a Very diverse immigrant rich Native American African-American neighborhood and so they've been working with young people since the young man That was really in trouble now He's actually teaching other kids how to do beautiful murals by the way the head of this was tom borough Who some people may know because he's quite an interesting arts consultant He was actually kicked off the arts commission in Minneapolis because he permitted this beautiful graffiti on the walls of the building That was like 10 years ago or something things have changed This is a Chad artist from Chad who had his driving cab and they reconnected him with this artwork It also helped him use his artwork to have conversations with this community about what could be done to really help them And this is their annual art car parade, which I'm really sorry. You can't see the details of it But it's really pretty fantastic. So getting out in the community. I think that's one thing I'll say about creative place-making. It's about getting outside the doors of your organization and going out into the community and Really engaging people and using your art and learning a lot from the other people as well It's from our artists and also artists live in work spaces. So Laura works in this building here the northern Warehouse building and this is the Tilson building both of these were empty warehouses had been empty for years This one didn't have a roof on it and the early 90s when art space projects, which is a nonprofit developer and manager of artists live in workspace You know did the work to create turn these into artists live in work buildings They were smart to make these first two floors commercial So that's one of the reason springboard is there and the black dog cafe These have been just amazing. These happen to be artists co-ops and there's a whole interesting story about that But this is Jusinius Hall a filmmaker One of the things that art space confronted was that to get votes from the city council One city council member said I will not support bridge financing for this project Unless you do something in my neighborhood So they took this old printing plant, which is in Frogtown or explain that to you today They made it into this amazing artists live work housing family housing The dance space in the basement among artists in his studio There's a very interesting analysis by and ghetto on Nicodemus Called how artists space matters where she looked because these buildings have been in place since the early 90s We really can see what impact they've had so she studied their impact on artists Which interestingly she found they didn't really raise artists income to live in these buildings But it permitted them to quit their day jobs in many cases or to work a lot less hours out And that frees up those jobs for other people. So artists chose You know not to make more money, but to be able to work more in their artwork, which I thought was fascinating also, they have been very very important as the Anchor venues for these art crawls that they have twice a year that have really brought so many people into this area Right into artists use the I bought work there It's been very good for local businesses There's been very little displacement. There hasn't really much gentrification that part of time It's been very stable for a long time now the farmers market is open again There's some uptick and we'll see what the light rail really does to it too But it has not really caused gentrification and there various other, you know, salatory impacts of the studies It's a very careful study. It's very honest also and very good methodologically so the reason I think these artist centers and these live works buildings are so important is because proximity really does create community and Creating space to where you feel like you belong and co-work with other people and learn across levels of experiences Has been very very powerful. I would argue for The Twin Cities Arts community and we did four or five artist centers in the rest of Minnesota Which I don't really have time to present but they're very interesting as well So I don't want to say very much about our place making but I want to just point out a Couple of experiences that I think are instructive of the ways that we can really incorporate the concerns that Robert Has really placed on the table for us. Both of these are from our creative place making study The first one is the case of the light rail system in Portland, which you know, we discussed transportation scoring So Portland was really the first city to do a light rail system They were very nervous that nobody would ride on it because it's like Phoenix or Minneapolis You know, it's a car driving town kind of spread out low density at a guy like a bureaucrat I got a staff guy in the department transportation said well How about if we got artists to design the stations and we had the artists to consult with the community about what they would Like the station to say about their community and the engineers went oh, no, we don't do that It's too expensive. It'll never go this guy went all the way to Washington He went to the Department of Transportation, which is a rich agency and they were really worried about this and They said yeah, go ahead see what you can do. So this is one of the outcomes from it This is on the north side of Portland a heavily Japanese-American community The artists went to the community said what would you like and they said we'd like the station to tell the story of our incarceration in the desert during World War two and he went whoa or she And so this is the outcome. This is on opening day These are the bronze plaques that are not on the station, but they weren't there yet And what it says right here it reproduces the newspaper from the 1940s It says alien ouster urged now and here's an older Japanese lady coming up to read This history this history that's now there to be read again If by the way if you have a chance you should definitely go to the herd museum and see there has envy I've seen the boarding school experience thing they have. It's just spectacular. It's really really really wonderful We went there spent our morning there today So and this is these are objects from the camps that people had left that they brought it and he made something out of as well And ridership really has been good for Partly because of that the other story is a story of Arnavill Louisiana which is about two hours from New Orleans. We spent some time their last winter coming through an artist An established visual artist came home to take care of his dying father He realized that his town was just like sinking into the bayou. There were crack houses It was just really a mess and so he decided what could I do? I'm a visual artist. He started a cafe and and there was all this wonderful music around Cajun music You know and not just white people, but there were African-american playing, you know Creole Cajun music and so on and then he got this idea How about if we use the French language that still exists in our area as a way of really building community and They started these language tables and you know They would have this sort of Arcadian Cajun French speaking people and the Creole African-american speaking people at the same table on the very first night Some white person tried to correct the pronunciation of French of the Creole person and the little white-haired lady Who ran it went no, no, no, we're here to celebrate French and it doesn't matter how you pronounce it Any pronunciation of French is good, you know, we're not going to go down that route and it has really worked for them And now you know They've they've gotten the attention the French attaché and they've been to France and they're going to take their old shuttered hospital You know that was built in the 60s and this was too small to succeed And they're going to turn it into a French language immersion school It already had people coming from all over the US This is their language table, you know to learn French in the summer and do these other things So one artist made this happen one artist who was from the community made a commitment to stay in the community This is what he did. So those are the kinds of things that go on that's in our creative place making study Finally, I just want to say that we raised the indicators issue this morning I wrote a very cheeky piece in the fall because I was so distressed because I was going to conferences and people doing these Creative placement projects were saying to me. What are these indicator things that our place in NEA are doing and I'm really happy that Ian Moss picked this great graphic for the front of the piece I made the sign but had nothing to say and it's I think a very careful critique of the problem of using the kind of Indicators are considering. I'm very happy to say that by the time this was published The NEA was already really backing off of using those but our place has Really done it and I really recommend you meet it read my piece. It's also in grant makers for the arts January issue of their reader. They reprinted. I brought a few copies with me, too And a few of my other study copies if you're interested in those. That's it. Thank you I know I talked a long time and now I'm ready to talk with you So who has interesting stories to share or something I didn't say that you like to talk about something I did you'd like to disagree with Robert Tucson I know a handful of artists that have teaching gigs in LA or San Diego and they do the balance Semesters. So there is that kind of interest in migrating Especially those that landed in Canada. They've spent six months out of the year in another city Now now What Anyway, so are you tracking that kind of pattern of employment? You know, I would say no, I think there are a lot of professionals doing that in a lot of fields actually But there isn't any easy way to track that without surveying people And you know, we don't we're not ever reflective about what we do in academia who we are I mean, you know, we never study ourselves Isn't that ironic so I would say no, I don't know how prominent I certainly know people who do that and they're not necessarily artists They're people sociologists and engineers and you know, people do that. I Think it's wacky, but they do I want to say there isn't you know There is a kind of whole class system in art Just like other things and that's one of the problems that we face and one of the reasons why a lot of people have Weird ideas about artists, especially visual artists visual artists don't have any ongoing property rights in their work So it makes it a playground for wealthy people And that's what the New York gallery scene and the LA gallery scene are about and that's why you get certain people You know pushed up into the star status and you have certain parts of the city that are but that's not That's just a tiny tiny tiny share of the artist population So yeah, hi, could you please explain the concept? I'm Jeremy Fox Yeah, I'm an art administration major Could you please explain the concept of gentrification? I Would be very happy to do that and this is important because Phenomenon the word gentrification came in in the 1970s 80s way before artists were ever associated with it So this is kind of the genealogy in the 60s and 70s young people began to move back into the city and Fix up houses through sweat equity and basically mainly there were young couples and often they were two income couples Where they didn't want to really live in suburb because that was the pattern You were supposed to like move out to suburb if you could But they wanted to go back and fix up these old house and partly because they had jobs in the city It was too hard to deal with you know two jobs and community and everything else So and this you know this became kind of a thing and it was you know in the areas They went to basically it was a good thing. They were doing they weren't really displacing people and after a while The development industry really began to say oh my gosh. There's really a market for Housing in the city. So first these people are going and doing themselves because you know There wasn't anything for them and they could do this cheap But then they began to see and that's a huge like in Minneapolis, St. Paul when I grew up there Nobody lived downtown Minneapolis except people who were living on the streets and now there's something like 60,000 people living in downtown Minneapolis And a lot of them are elderly people that they won't live out there in suburbia anymore And they can walk the skyways all winter long in Minneapolis and they can go to the theater and everything else But a lot of them are young professionals. So, you know the our problems in cities I mean our whole way of living in the United States is so Deformed by you know the fact that there's a development industry that's trying to always develop some new place And and chill it as the greatest place and tell people that they should be scared because other people are moving in and it's created this you know this really Pathological way of living that we have especially in big cities where there are whole areas You know that are only just white in fact some colleagues of mine just this week. They did this study of income disparity in Minnesota and they found that the that the Smallest income disparities in Minnesota were in the suburbs of the Twin Cities Why because they're all the same income? They don't let anybody in they have rules that nobody else can get in was lower So they all grew up by so the biggest disparities are in outstate, Minnesota, even though it's not that You know the disparities aren't that big but you saw it so anyway gentrification So this word actually came from Britain. I think was there because they have this notion of the gentry so the idea of gentrification is that you know Developers come in and they buy up Space they tear down old houses. They build new ones. They price them much higher and then people who live in the neighborhood You know get displaced and the big displacement Mechanisms actually because they have to pay property taxes So if the property values go up even if they paid off their house that they own it or if they're renters You know the building other people are gonna Oh, I can just sell these buildings and they can be torn down and I'll make a lot of money So that's the gentrification process that it's definitely happened in a lot of cities in different parts of cities and the development industry is very Implicated in it. It is partly Dependent on demand and that's the point I was trying to make this morning that Gentrification so then this famous book was written by Sharon Zucan who's a very smart wonderful sociologist called loft living and she documented how in New York in the 1970s in the whole Soho area That young you know people came in and they weren't all artists by the way because I knew a lot of them You know they moved into these old lofts first of all the lofts were empty just like these buildings in St. Paul They were empty they were they were had been manufacturing lost right in Manhattan And they were empty because the companies had to camp so they were gone So you know and they would fix them up and everything else so pretty soon the developer saw oh, you know There's a lot of desire, you know, you have to understand about New York City that every rich person in the world wants an apartment in New York City There's an endless amount of pressure. I mean the cost of living is just out of this world in New York City Especially in Manhattan So this kind of a process that she described is very particular to New York and wait But there are echoes of it in other places in Philadelphia They didn't really find that because nobody's moving to Philadelphia nobody wants to have an apartment in Philadelphia But it does happen in certain neighborhoods and the development has become very very good And like when I went to look for my house in Minneapolis, they took me to an area and they said this is an emerging Neighborhood I said, what does that mean an emerging neighborhood? Well, they said it's sort of low income now It's really on its way out. I mean this is the way they create in you You're the buyer thing you don't know anything about you know, they create this sort of sense Oh, it would be good to buy here because the prices are going up and so on and so forth So that was gentrification and because of Sharon Zucan's book unfortunately, you know Now lots of people think that artists cause gentrification that artists move into a neighborhood and then you know Their presence causes other people to want to come and and that drives up the prices, etc I think developers try to use artists in that way, but I think there are very very few instances I'm not seeing there aren't any where actually some group of artists is the reason for the turnover and development, etc But that's what gentrification is and it's a very serious issue and it's very Problematic because of the way that art place in particular is running its projects So many of their indicators and this is a part of my indicators complaint are really things that reward Things like cell phone news. Oh, this I found this is so interesting. So So cell phone news, especially on Friday and Saturday night, okay So who is using a cell phone in the city on Friday and Saturday first of all There's all this data some really great data which I I quote in there showing that you know A lot of poor people don't have cell phones at all a lot more than you would think don't these were surveys of people who took The bus in LA especially older people they don't have them at all Okay, if you're going to a jazz concert or a symphony or something you're going to be turning your cell phone off You're not going to be using it. So there's going to be no activity level on Friday and Saturday night Who's going to be using them young hip people? So This it is a problem. I think that there's you know, there's a whole Organized urban development industry. There's a you know urban land Institute I gave a talk there last year the woman who's just stepped out from executive director gave a talk there And you know, you can just see all these people there Salivating to find the next new place and be nice to drop move drop a little arts in there And that that would make it really great for them to redevelop as condos and so on and so forth I want to also point out that there are huge one of their other indicators is the percent of people living in the area That are working Okay So you could have big condo towers in a neighborhood where everybody went off and worked somewhere else And there was absolutely nothing going on there during the day and they would come back They would look really good by their indicator, you know, that doesn't have anything to do with activity Artistic activity or anything going on in the neighborhood. So, you know, that that's my brand But those kind of indicators are coming from a certain sensibility that really, you know As as the guy who does their methods of who's basically not very well trained, you know Wrote this piece with the woman who runs thing called the young and the restless. That's their idea of what's really great Oh, and they have these they have these diversity indicators that are The diversity indicator is that you should have some of different kinds of people in the neighborhood Oh, that's fine But what if you're in the big area of LA that's all Vietnamese people because nobody else would have them Or they couldn't afford to go or they were helping each other, you know get established You're gonna penalize them with an indicator because they're not mixed or how about age diversity? There's no age diversity indicator in there. Shouldn't you want to shouldn't we encourage neighborhoods? They have people all ages in them. They're just all these different issues So thank you for asking that and did I make it clear what gentrification is? That's what gentrification And it's free to disagree with me on this also It's an important issue. Yes. Oh, sorry. Oh, yeah And So it's clear, you know your skepticism around our place and you're very sort of challenged so What are the strategies that you're using and what strategies do you? You propose for allies to find themselves in conversations in mayor's offices with legislators, economic development committees, with developers who wield richer Florida and create a place for them, as very open weapons in the service not just of a challenging definition of gentrification but the need for revitalization in different areas that often don't include a real sense of the So I asked you that because I wanted to be Right, right. Well, thank you. That's a really challenging question First of all, I will tell you that I wrote the creative place making indicators critique to try to really influence what these two organizations were doing and I did send it to every Program officer. I didn't in one or two cases I actually knew the presidents of the foundation but I sent it to the people who were the research and methodology people and I sent it to the arts program people in all Foundations that fund our place and I know it made a difference and now I'm following up with some of them So I'm actually sitting down with them I just made a date with the Ford Foundation person to have a conversation about where does he think creating place making is going and I have a feeling that he was you know Someone who was also very concerned and critical about some of that so so that's one thing where I feel like I have some access I know somebody or Then I've really worked at that level quietly And I wrote the piece To really get it out there on the table And I think it's got some really great arguments and great examples in it And I just felt it was a traumatic thing for me to write, but I felt like it was an important thing to do You know it is I think the Richard Florida era is kind of over actually so I think he just disappointed so many people And actually he was Yeah Really Well, I think you can co-opt it, you know, that's what I would say for one thing you've got to find that There are many people doing this. I mean this wasn't a new thing There were people who'd already been doing this for like we got this just in passion letter from a theater director in Connecticut who said like Hello, I've already been doing this for 20 years and now I've already done it I I can't get any funding from this but the state of Connecticut Wants to change all its arts funding to create a place making funding and where does that leave me and I was like going What are we gonna say to the sky? Which we did talk to him about it, but so So that's one thing just finding people in your community to push back on it and encouraging people to push back on it and You know one of the other things I do so one of the and I've written a little bit about this But I've done a lot more public speaking on it So there's this idea about the cultural district, right? We're gonna doubt like New Mexico We're gonna dub certain places cultural districts and Louisiana has one too But they've softened a lot so now lots of places can be cultural district and there are their incentives to go with it You know you get you know sales tax breaks or you get you know a little chunk of money or something like that So especially in cities, I think it's a terrible idea and actually I often put up pictures of Minneapolis and St Paul where none of our major arts institutions are next door to each other there They're spread around and all of we have like 80 theater companies that either have their own Oh either owner rent their space They're all spread over all these artists centers are spread all over and I like to present that as a mosaic And I actually tell the story when I moved back to Minneapolis And was staying with my brother and sister-in-law. I've been gone for 35 years They go out every Wednesday night. They have five children and I see where do you go? And they said oh we go to a different neighborhood every time I said like what well We go to the jungle theater at Lynn Lake and we go to the Greek place for dinner before and we go to the topist bar afterwards And they said tomorrow night's our date night. You can come with us We're going to see Buena Vista social club, you know It's at the art theater and then we're gonna buy the CD and then we're gonna go out to the Italian restaurant And that's what you know, that's what they do So I got this idea of the mosaic Which I counterposed to the cultural district and I just we just had a big thing in Duluth led by the way by the Art School Dean who was a very amazing guy and was a theater director in Chicago for 20 years And he really knows how to cast and direct he's organized a whole Duluth arts community but he really is in favor of this little two or three block cultural district in Duluth and I made the argument in my talk and there were a lot of people in the room who really resonate I said you don't want to do this art district thing because for one thing it suggests that every other place is not an arts district Every place is an arts district So I said what you want to do is you want to show the mosaic you want to encourage people to move and then I just listed off The your symphonies over there your major Art Institute is down there your playhouse is over the university is up the hill You know, you've got this old forge that people are making something out of you've got that waterfront where all the stuff goes I'm in the summer make a map and pretty soon these young people in the beginning go And so, you know just really trying to undermine it by building on, you know, the other stuff that's there and pushing back and So and also I just think like the Richard Florida ideas. I mean, he really didn't have you know, Richard floors created class You know wasn't about artists. It was really about Everybody who had a college degree Period because that's how that's how we define the creative class all the occupations that are defined by higher educational Attainment or in the creative class all the rest of us aren't all crafts people not in the creative class So and you know sad to say, you know the scientists and engineers that were supposed to be attracted by you know The these you know inner city places where artists they never went there They don't like to live there like a like to live in suburbia Almost all of them. So that was my prior life when I was studying the military industrial complex So, you know, it's really his his thing is just very thin is for what I found really sad and pathetic is that You know, it was so Powerful for the arts community because they felt like here was somebody who's finally speaking for them My University of President invited Richard Ford to come and do one of his, you know, great conversations up on stage with him and He asked me to write the questions. I was so pissed and So I wrote these questions and I handed to my graduate students See if you have any questions. I said I have a few so one of them came back and she said What is it? What are the creative? What are the political implications of the creative class? Are they gonna rise up and take us in some direction? And what would that be and our president asked that question? It was the last question and Richard Florida was totally tongue-tied It was like such a just a great moment because he didn't have any answer to that. There was no Political implications. So I would just say that, you know, we all we need a lot of educating Maybe we need somebody to write something that really articulates a different vision not a critique of Richard Ford, but you know really emphasizes these other visions and You know, so I'd love to just hear about that if other people I like because I think that still is a really key thing I still see this cultural districts idea is like very attractive to people and Also, just aside the other powerful thing we haven't talked about tonight is really this thing about engagement So there is a big change going on in the art world where people who patronize arts Especially young people they don't want to go sit in the theater and be in the dark and have the action up the stage They care about the venue. They care about well, so they want to be more engaged in actually curating the event This is what you know, these various observers are saying and they want to see stuff You know performed and displayed in new kinds of settings and they want to do more of it themselves This is the really exciting part. This is the thing that should make every mayor's heartbeat fast You know because this stuff mainly goes on in cities. This is some suburban areas are doing it, too So that's a whole nother challenge for the arts community. It's very challenging to traditional arts organizations I've spent especially performing arts organizations. You write a play. You've got characters in cast How do you make it more interactive? There are ways of doing it. Sony I think has been doing a lot of really interesting work on that coming from theater and So this is the future really and this is the only way we're right now By the way, you know artists are way down in the totem pole and people's you know sort of like admiration for occupations and we're really small. We're tiny We're you know, we don't make it on the map Did Bill Clinton in his brilliant 50 minute talk at the Democratic Convention last summer did he mention arts and culture ones? No He went through the whole lexicon of things that mattered to Americans and it wasn't there We got to be there and one of the ways and I think it's happening See this is what I think is so amazing. I think people all over the place are Picking up their high school instruments and singing with each other. They're going into their community plays They're doing more artwork themselves There's just a lot of they're doing with their communities there in the Native American community the reassertion of language and learning language and the teaching of these traditional art forms and The encouragement to young people to do new things in Latino communities and LA the same thing You know organizations where the young people support the grandmother's knitting and they support the hip hop So there just is a lot of that going on and that is what we can really build on so that's I think they're really helpful thing Hello, my name is Deborah Webb. I'm from Seattle University and our city has a cultural space initiative right now with a designated person that's going to be leading the charge to Really create a plan for long-term cultural space and what we're finding from the community so far is that? They're wanting two things intergenerational cultural space as well as interdisciplinary space and I'm wondering if you're seeing that as a trend or a potential future success and we're going to blaze that trail Because the examples that you showed of cultural space that We're really successful are very discipline specific and what we're hearing from our community is there? They're not wanting those silos of disciplines. They're really wanting that in there and also families artists are getting older They're having families They want to learn the cello while their child is learning the violin And they want a space to do that and not have to drive into the density of the city And so I'm just wondering if if you're seeing that or hearing that around the city at all or the country You don't know but I'm really so glad to hear that you're I think there are little signs of it We had a huge flap in Minneapolis well in the Twin Cities about ten years ago one of our big foundation did this whole study about art in the suburbs and they Encouraged a lot more sort of artistic stuff in the suburbs and the established arts organizations got really upset Because you know we've been losing population from our inner cities You know for 20 or 30 years and they thought this was like oh the funders are gonna fund stuff out there And they're not gonna fund us You know they immediately had this them versus us thing So you know we had worked really hard like in Hopkins this entering suburb old Jewish suburb You know they have pawn shops on their main street and these older people in the community mostly they're a little World War two You know post World War two houses. They want to stay in the community, but it's kind of going downhill So the city of Hopkins decided to build this visual and performing arts center a city built an owned Performing arts center and it was like the first one in the Twin Cities And again there was so much controversy about so I just started saying to people look if people go there to hear Laura Kaviani our best woman jazz pianist in Twin Cities play jazz Then the next time you play she plays downtown, they're gonna want to go see her don't see this You know you've got a potential huge audience out there that doesn't go to anything But if it's nearby they will so you know except that and Interestingly enough now there's a lot of senior housing built right across the street from this place There where there wasn't any before and there are rest rods and there are you know music venues in this You know small four or five block area of this thing So that's what I think we really need and I'm so happy to hear about the intergenerational thing because I that's what I see in Native American communities in immigrant communities in LA It is intergenerational and they and they want it to be that way and I think you know Generational segregation is the biggest threat in American culture. We have and there are all these right wing people trying to beat Oh, you know pit old people against young people I mean it's so disgusting. It's unbelievable and a lot of marketers are trying to only market You know to one so I think this is another place where arts and culture can do a wonderful job And I really you know very I'd love to hear more about actually what you're And I think it's really good to talk back about that because I do think the intergenerational thing is important And the participatory thing and wanting to do it in your neighborhood is really important Thank you for that Somebody else had their hand up. Yes