 We're back with the breakfast in Plus TV Africa. Is it come I took is and stand by he joins us this morning via zoom? Many thanks for joining us and Merry Christmas. Thanks for having me and Merry Christmas to everybody in Plus TV Africa and beyond. All right then. Let's start off with the leadership newspaper as always would have to look through the papers and see what stories made it to the front page and what big stories what are people talking about or what should people be looking at. The leadership is what we're starting off with and it talks about the 2023 it talks about the 2023 presidency. I beg your pardon that would probably be from yesterday quickly. Fast forward to today. It talks about NAS and the increase of the budget by 1.3 trillion Nair. A mid rising deficit and debts. NAS increases 2023 budget by 1.3 trillion Nair. Wow increases budget from 20.5 trillion Nair to 21.8 trillion. Niger's debt profile may hit 70 trillion next year. We're looking at that 2023 Senate in Rowdy session over Buhari's 22.7 trillion request act CBN to extend debt line for old Naira notes to June. Okay 2023 G5 governors weigh Tunubu or be options. Wow this G5 governor is like a force you need to reckon with. You know even after 2022 moving forward. Lagos lawyers IGP orders killer policemen suspension. It should have been done uh without you know even this time. Auction. EFCC invites beads for 61 for feted houses and others. I mean so if you want to buy it just feels like it's time to venture into all of that. Gunmen bomb police headquarters in Anambra and free suspects. 19 dies in two Niger road crashes. Oh Hanezi president general Obiozor dies at 80. It's unfortunate but I think his you know left for some decades right there and it's very commendable. However I had some prayers with the family. PDP threatened sanction as G5 governor's mid Tunubu in the United Kingdom. APC presidential candidate intensifies lobby or be banks on president former president Hulusi Agunobasan just barking. It is too late in the day to go back to Atiku. Reconciliation failed says source. Governors on vacation. There ricks being disciplined anti-party activities. It's it's it's so interesting how you know the captions are being put out this morning but I can't wait to share Zickel's thoughts on all of this. Defense health gets lion's share. National Assembly passes 21.8 trillion dollar budget and NLC gives Buhari condition for new minimum wage. Uzodimba mourns Ohanezi's leader as he dies at 80. Calabar death cross river PDP. Lampoon Zayadeh for going ahead with the carnival. That's what you find also. Reps demand injustice or demands justice for lawyers slain by policemen. Car explosion kills seven Lagos residents heading for revival. And that's it this morning on the punch news paper but let's quickly turn our attention to the daily trust and the nation before we have Zickel join us to share his thoughts or bring his thoughts on some of the headlines. After selling 649 vehicles EFCC auctions 160 houses land worth billions of Naira. The Ziani ex-NIA DJ's house orders up for grabs. Government agencies orders to enjoy a right of first refusal. Experts command decision advocate due process will announce revenue from sales soon. That's what the spokesman is saying and all of this should you know okay. Physical activities that shape Nigeria's economy in 2022 smaller kind of tutorial. You want to check that out Nigerian refugees 10 taxi drivers sat from Niger Republic. Bandit skill 14 abduct 81 in Sokoto and Katsina. I'm fed up with my marriage. Ghandu J's daughter tells courts. Reps Suasu Bajabiamila did not deceive you. National Assembly raises 2023 budgets by 1.3 trillion Naira. Exploring 6th century old link between Kano and Algerian scholar. These are some of the headlines you find this morning and we have the nation newspaper. The nation says 2023 we came back in the orders for close support for article. Buharis, Osiba Joss, Beaches Sun and Tunibu's campaign. IG orders suspension of Kila ASP. Vandy. Naira notes Senate urge the CBN to shift that line to June the 30th. Now the headlines we find this morning on the nation newspaper. Well we quickly you know introduce our guest once again Ezekiel Yaitu. Thank you for joining us. Oh yeah thanks for having me. It's good to have you. Well the leadership let's start off with the leadership down. The leadership is talking about the increase of the budget by 1.3 trillion Naira. Ezekiel I'd like to share your thoughts and we know that this we have a revenue challenge and we also have deficit budget deficits and we we have too many issues that we're grappling with. We're looking at 1.3 trillion. How do you respond to this? Okay the the very first thing is that I think Nigerians I couldn't say this enough. We need to really understand what government is and what governance is. It's something specialized. It is not something that you dash somebody or it's not a reward process. It's a job that you apply for and there is a job description for the three tiers of government. For the judiciary you may not really speak much about it but the other two are elective and that's talking about the the executive and of course the legislature. Why do I say this? There is something that you must understand about budget and budgeting. Most people really don't sit down to understand what we are doing. In budget you are saying that there are one two three important things that you must do. Those things cost you a hundred Naira. They now come and ask how much can I generate by way of estimation? I can only generate say 15 Naira. Then I'm asking myself this differential of 15 Naira how am I going to get it? Can I bring it down to 90 or to 80 and then you say no I've cut and cut from 150 to 100. 100 is what will make life good for this country. Okay then that differential of 50 Naira you have two things you can do. If you are basically wanting borrowing you can borrow internally you can borrow externally you can borrow borrow from the Central Bank of Nigeria which is what they call the ways and means. If you are borrowing from the Central Bank of Nigeria to avoid abuse they are setting conditions criteria limitations checks and balances and some of them include number one there's a certain threshold that you cannot borrow beyond that number one. Number two you must retire what you borrowed a previous year before you can now borrow in the new year to ensure that it's a cycle which is like an envelope that is kept for you you return the old one you take the new one. At the end of the day as at today we are having a budget that probably has something in deficit in the in the region of probably 11 or 12 trillion. Now what they've done again is go back to CBN through the ways and means and they have not followed the laws they've not followed the conditions they've not followed the criteria. What it means is just that it's a recipe for chaos now even as tight as it was and the differentials that we had when it went back the National Assembly increased it again by over a trillion. Why did they increase yesterday tutorial or legally they have or constitutionally they have the right of appropriation that means they have the right to add or subtract or tinker with you know and at the end of the day if you look at what they are doing it has to do with their personal interests in what they call their constituency projects they don't come out that clean but if you really look at it or you have friends with them and you hear the back door the back house conversations you know this is a lecture on time coming some of them are not sure of coming back so they are like how can we give ourselves some insurance of some sort. So at the end of the day it is one thing personal interest against the conditional provision of national interest and that's because in our leadership recruitment profiling we really don't think of the people that we send to offices we are too concerned about ways if from is it from my tribe and things like that and we end up bringing mechanics or engineers to pilot an aircraft what's the result poverty capital of the world when will we stop and think. So but if you look at the 2023 proposed budget I mean just before all of this we're looking at a recurrent expenditure of 8.2 trillion Naira and when you juxtaposed that with the capital expenditure it means that we're going to spend more in the cost of administration running of government. Yeah mixing to up. Excuse me. Yeah mixing to up. Okay so we have you know the expenditure but we seem to be the real current expenditure in 2023 is put at 8.2 trillion Naira. Yes if that's recurrent it means capital is over 12 is close to 12 trillion. It is less. You know no because the budget is about 23 trillion isn't it. No the budget is not it was 20 you know 20 about 20 trillion but that has been increased down to 21. But you know that over time we have never I'm going to get the figures immediately and of course in the cost of this conversation we'll look at that. Now we have never I don't remember the last time we you know we are located so much to capital expenditure or you know in you know what I'm talking about having projects and what have you. So we always allocate so much for because that would be recurrent and that involves the cost of running governance and so we're looking at 8.2 trillion so what's left for infrastructure and development is less. No no no no no if you have 21 and you have 8 for recurrent it means you are having close to 11 for capital in fact more than 11 because 21 from 8 gives you about what am I doing where am I thinking this morning. Yes it gives you about 13 yes that's right because 21 from 8 gives you 13 so we have to determine which one is capital which one is recurrent. I'm sure you get what I mean. No I do but you know so what then was the reason why the National Assembly had fled the government over the 8.2 trillion error for recurrent expenditure. You see there's a trick that these people you know you know I'm contesting to for the the governorship seat in our state. There's a lot of trick there's a lot of deceit there's a lot of unethical practices in that thing we call budget. Budget is just a piece of paper that means absolutely it's like a ritual that means nothing because people don't stick to it you know I'll give you an example now there is what is budgeted and there's what is cashbacked what is released have you looked at the performance of our 2022 budget if you had you know a certain percentage okay let's say Hajimi is going to be 50 50 late just to make it a little easier that recurrent is 50 percent capital is 50 percent just to make it easy you would realize that now if they released about if the cashbacked was about say 80 percent of that budget you realize that they have released a hundred percent of recurrent you know and then it means that instead of 50 50 capital is now going to take maybe something neighborhood of 30 no but but but Ezekiel this is what I was saying and it's a good thing that I have the figures in front of me now now what's still talking about you know the budget when it was the total expenditure when it was 20.51 trillion naira right with a budget deficit at a time of 10.78 trillion and a total revenue of 9.73 trillion which doesn't even how do you have a deficit you know that supersets what you're going to you know that's what I say so yes so the capital expenditure just before you know 21 point trillion naira was packed that 3.53 trillion so it means that we're spending less and you know for capital expenditure you know and recurrent expenditure expected 8.2 trillion so we are located that's what I've been trying to say you're not doing a total analysis a budget has two arms capital and recurrent a plus b must make the total budget now what you've just given me is eight plus three which is 11 instead of 21 8.27 and then you have 8.27 with three with 5.35 yes if you add the two eight plus five gives you 13 we're talking of 21 so there is still an envelope that is missing somewhere a plus b must give you 21 point something but if you add those two you have not gotten it and budget has just recurrent and capital has just those two arms doesn't have a third arm now it is when you come to recurrent that you have running of government and you know salaries and wages okay so you can keep going but it starts from that a b recurrent and capital and recurrent okay then when you come to recurrent you now have running of government and salaries and wages so but that capital and recurrent must add up to give you the total budget so when you add three point something with eight point something you are getting something about thirteen point something instead of twenty one so there's something missing somewhere I have not taken time to study the details but conceptually that's what I was looking at I also looked at other things like the sources the benchmarks that they have put and what what the production quota that they are looking at is beyond what we are getting as of today so the question is what are you doing what have you put in place to make sure that we'll be able to get more barrels or oil per day I've not seen why they should be what they've been able to look at to give us more and secondly the benchmark of seventy five dollars of seventy five dollars to so it's like a naira to a dollar no no no am I getting myself up of seventy five there's something I wanted to get a dollar to a barrel yes that they are using one has to ask I mean how is that ambitious or is that you know is that realistic on the average over the period I think that it's a budget that they are just rushing to get out and get what they want so the new administration the two the different you know parties coming in must sit down today today and study the budget and rework the budget so that whoever comes in within few days of getting into office will be able to send something back to the national assembly on what is workable what these guys are doing they know they are not going to want to be the ones to implement the budget so they are just cutting things in and out just pass it get their own part of the pie and then move on and or check out as it were okay let's leave the conversation of the budget and look at all the issues on the papers this morning another talks about that's on the punch the pdp threatened sanction as g5 governor's meet tunable in the united kingdom do you think that this is just you know leap service I'll tell you this you know the name my name is Ezekiel which makes me a prophet of some sort okay but I actually should have started by expressing our condolences to the Igbo nation general on the loss of their president general I don't know how that's kept me a man who's lived to the lovely age of 80 and then he's made his marks and then we our hearts go to his family where we are we are grateful to him for the services he offered his nation good back to pdp 2023 let me say this 2020 pdp have lost the plot I don't know why how article got himself into this situation but I can tell you for free that 2023 is going to be close to a real two-horse race it's going to be four-horse but you know the top two are likely going to be um bole had met tunable and uh mr peter will be and if if I were to advise number one is that the g5 is most likely going to you know root for um mr peter will be I can say that for a fact because there is no way that they particularly in the south are going to go for apc I can tell you that for free you know I live here I'm contesting here I know that the the depression of the people and the feeling that one muslim muslim ticket is is is an affront on christianity and christianity is a big deal you know in in in the south generally let me say south south south east okay and between south south south east you have um so many states five plus six that's about 11 states and that's substantial by any stretch of imagination so what's going to happen is that if I were pdp rather than lose out they should start to think in terms of a working understanding between them and um labor party mr peter will be I think that mr quank was so might also come into the mix so that we now see a kind of government of national unity that is being put together against apc that everybody just generally feels that look we've had enough can you just pack not only on account of the muslim muslim ticket but also in terms of the past performance which a lot of people have some a lot to say against so if there's this you know grand understanding between a pdp you better not lose and be out in the cold you are better of being wise that understanding between apc pdp nmpp and labor party because there may not be a clear winner because right now they may not be able to say look we uh you know they can't be a merger again there could only be an alliance and the long thinking in terms of how do we share government if they sit down and have that conversation they will get apc out and then we'll have something that comes close to a government of national unity between these three major parties I know that I also have sdp on the block and then the other smaller parties if they they just say look for whatever is worth let's call it justice let's call it equity let's call it national movement orientation the voice of the youth and because you are from the southeast and there seems to be a lot of momentum of the youth I really don't know how because it's sounding like you are endorsing uh this action or the actions of this g5 I'm doing a political analysis I'm doing analysis I'm not my party is not even mentioned in the mix so I understand yes I understand so but you know it's looking like yes it's fine we we can't maybe because you know to the other side because a lot of people seem to see this as a very good or welcome development for pitao b's presidency or you know his campaign and the fact that he's vying for the sit in 2023 but one of the question I'd like to ask is that why did this g5 governors not support pitao b while he was still member of the people's democratic party why did they not show their support because he already saw the hand of time and left so why why were they why did they not support why did the likes of we cannot step down for him and say you know what we and we pick you and we endorse you so why are there you know acting in this light I mean if this is anything to go by because it's also another thing to say if you know you have it would be the first in its kind that you have governors from a certain political party broadly you know throwing their way to another presidential candidate of another party entirely and we know without you know mixing or missing words that this is anti-party activities you see you see 2023 is is is is something that has never happened not like a year that is coming it's it's it's there's a lot we need to reprogram our minds and open up our hearts to a lot of things that have never been that will come to be you know that's number one number two there's a certain level of arrogance that PDP has that costed presidency before and they've not learned from it I'm very close to all of them I'm very close to Mr. Peter Obie I'm very close to Juan Cuasso I'm very close to Adebayo I'm very close to Dumebika I'm close to all of them and I had a discussion with Mr. Juan Cuasso before he left and he said within the party there's these arrogance that they don't care who you are they just say we want to do this and they don't do strategic analysis and understand the strength of each person he says if he went to primaries these guys can dust him but he he knows who he is and what he can do and he's proved it the same thing with Peter Obie if the two of them were in PDP as are today they'll be almost non-entities you understand me they've come out to show who they are and PDP can imagine the two imagine Juan Cuasso and Peter Obie running together today there'll be a winner but these are two people that were inside PDP and PDP never saw them never took them serious so the two guys that we say oh I wish they could come together we're actually inside PDP and PDP would never have given ticket to any of the two of them so as of today I think it's the hand of deity God is doing something and he needed to kind of break a lot of the conventions and the traditions and bring new things I think Nigerians should open up their minds to a lot of possibilities don't be too dogmatic about things because there's a likelihood of there going to be nobody having a clear win in 2023 and there will likely be a runoff and in that runoff there's going to be a lot of trade-offs and a lot of things are are possible and it's not only at the national level even at the subnational level a crybom has never had a situation where you talk about the big five has never it's always been PDP PDP PDP then somewhere along the line APC came into the mix it became PDP APC somewhere along the line out of PDP came YPP out of APC came NNPP and of course AGC and you now talk of the big five in a crybook it's never happened so it's going to be the same thing working looking at there may be no possibility of somebody getting a clear winner so why don't why don't we have this g5 governor's just leaving the PDP and you know joining the labor party it's that same no they can't they can't why this is why can they do that no you're talking academics intellectuals today they are running what is irreversible some of the governors are going for senate you can't leave the party means you lose your seat some of them are having people like weekend is having somebody take over from him he can't move that person to another party now those windows have closed so they are at a point they cannot leave their parties they can't it's not what is politically possible it's not possible they've got to remain in their party but you see what they are doing is they are doing this ideology of passing not party passing not party and they are starting to do aggressive enlightenment of their people on how they can pick and choose and you know a lot of times we just miss miss miss we kind of fail to see how Nigerians are extremely versatile and they say oh they cannot no there's nothing that has come that Nigerians are just to immediately whether it is about cashless policy they are just to immediately whether it is don't bring up anything Nigerians adjust to it okay we are so gifted we can we cannot adjust to it so now they are doing passing not party so they are now picking and choosing a man has about four logos that he's saying house of reps this person senate this person governorship yeah you understand me and they are doing it and it's becoming and we have two more months and everybody's going to be enlightened on passing not party you know ideology and this maybe in just a minute or less than a minute is what's happening or what has happened in an amber state is unfortunate the fact that police headquarters has been attacked why is it that non-state actors seem to be having so much dominance of you know the states where you have fully you have the government you have the necessary architecture in place you know to ensure that lives and properties are protected there's something about government that is a betrayal of the oath of office that they took to defend the nation they put their personal interest too much into it if the federal government wants any of this nonsense to stop today to stop i say it on my honor and with every sense of responsibility the capacities open to government is almost endless but we put primordial sentiment we put personal interest we put pre-bendalism far and above the oath of office we swore to be blind to sections or tribes or traditions but to be fair free and fair to all concern i think what is going on in an amber state a lot of people are looking and enjoying some of the politics imo state enougu them a boy state but i am looking forward to a government that puts the lives of the nigerians far above any and every other consideration chapter 2 section 14 subsection 2b is what they swore to the security and the welfare of every citizen let me put it that way because they said of the people shall be the primary purpose of government the day we understand this will start to elect people not based on whether they know me they don't know me but on fit for purpose who can deliver on that day we'll start a journey to making nigeria one of the greatest nations on earth all right then is it going to i talk we have to leave the conversation at this point that's because we're out of time thank you so much always a delight to listen to you share your thoughts on some national issues thank you my rice has been waiting i'm going to rush i'm going to eat my rice that's fine do have yourself a merry christmas once again and a wonderful 2023 thank you same to you and the management of plus tv africa all right then that's the size of it on off the press we take a break when we return we continue with more interesting conversations please stay with us