 Good afternoon. Howard Wigg, Code Green, Think Tech, Hawaii. We're going to talk heat today. Today is the first day of spring, and we all in Hawaii can feel that spring heat coming on. And guess what heat does in Hawaii? It comes through windows, and we get uncomfortable. A large part of the job of those of us in the energy field is to get that heat rejected so it doesn't come in the window. That has two very good effects. The occupants of the home or building are much more comfortable and they don't need to reject the heat as much in the form of air conditioning. Air conditioning is a very big energy consumer, and those of us in the energy office don't like very big energy consumers. So we do all we can to keep homes and buildings naturally comfortable, which brings me to my distinguished guest, Andrew Sabaras, president of and CEO of Cornerstone Energy Solutions. Greetings and welcome to the program, Andy. Thanks for having me, Howard. Very happy to be here today. I've heard him speak many times, and he's a super, super techie guy. Do you have your PhD from Princeton Physics, was it? I don't have my PhD at all, but I live on campus at Princeton University. Ah, okay, because when he speaks, when he's doing a real techie type presentation, that's what you sound like. I've hung out with them a long enough, I guess. You get that by Osmosis. And we're going to talk about hubaroptic glazing, and hubaroptic is a German product top of the top of the line. I would say without prejudice, and I'm sure you are totally unprejudiced when you agree with me, and we're going to talk about the difference between high-performance glazing or glass that contains metal and doesn't contain metal, and the effects thereof. So why don't we launch, or would you like to say any opening remarks before we launch into slides? We have a video to share with you. I would love to share the video to get started. The one thing that's real important to understand is that I've spent my life and my passion in green and sustainability. The one product we had mentioned, the hubaroptic is the top of the chain as far as window films are concerned today. But as a cornerstone as an independent consultant, and my colleagues, Rich Goldberg and I, we have the ability to select any product that we feel is best for the consumer and whoever that is. There are certain climates where I like different products, but for Hawaii the choice is very clear. As clear as I believe the hubaroptic window film to be, the choice is very clear. But if we could start the video, I think that would help us greatly. We'll start the video first and here she blows. Why don't you explain us through this video? Because we're not going to get the audio. Hopefully you get the credits across the bottom there, the closed captioning. What's happening is they're talking about from the early days where ceramics have been utilized, whether it had been in pottery and such like that, to make them more sustainable and longer lasting. But now it's our components inside of where we are. Engine blocks by Mercedes-Benz are being tested that won't require the same need of antifreeze or coolant because what's happening is that they're able to dissipate the energy. Our space shuttle for one of the most obvious examples is coated with ceramic tiles. It hits 2300 degrees Fahrenheit on reentry into the Earth's atmosphere, but its ability to have a rapid, if not immediate dissipation of the energy is what keeps the people inside the craft safe. So as opposed to a metal, when a metal heats up it has a tendency to move, metals cause different problems with friction, and in our glazing world what happens with metals today is metals will cause thermal stress if they heat too much. Right now they're talking on the video about its use in the space program as well as weaponry in the dental field. Ceramics are utilized now for tooth replacement as well as bone and hip replacement. They're using ceramics because they find our body adapts with more. It's explaining what a titanium nitride type product is and how the sputtering process occurs through this. And titanium was named after God? Yeah, and there he was. So essentially in the sputtering process and what they're explaining here is that we take a metal type product and it goes into a cathode and through the process where argon filled chamber, the negative ions are what attaches to the substrate. Therefore when they do attach you have a titanium nitride product. We have to insert nitrogen to the end of it which is where you get your titanium nitrogen and actually as if on Q we put a video of it on there. So on the bottom we have the cathode and as you start to charge what happens and what we're seeing there is the window films, the titanium particle goes up and then they're going to add the nitrogen to it. So it is a fully metal and dye free technology. By being metal and dye free you're never going to have a corrosion, a color change and we're able to build a stronger construction that again would rival glass. In the past I think it was safe to say that glass was very permanent. You'd see 80 year old glass. We see it every day here in Hawaii but you put a tint on it and the tint would tend to turn purple or the metal tints are now we're finding corroding. We thought maybe 10, 15 years ago we had some great metal tint but what happens is tint in a salt water environment the metals corrode and some fantastic reports have come out that said anything within 75 miles of a coastline the metals are corrosive. Right now what we're seeing is it's explaining that the ceramics have four times the performance 12 times the comfort. We have these on slides coming up and we'll talk about those a little bit more one-on-one as we hit them. Actually we don't have slides it turns out. Oh no we don't have slides. I'm in front of you so if you turn the page in front of me we can go through those which is okay. Okay well I will lead us through the slides and then you can fill in here. So we've been through the nanotechnology versus the metal technology and we'll get into a lot of detail there but as you said the same product that's going into these windows is going into hip replacements and into the space shuttle we're talking some very very high performance material here. The IR rejection capabilities of ceramics are what was originally put onto the stealth bomber as you think about radar the stealth was able to name itself is to be undetectable by radar because radar is infrared so if you coded ceramic onto the stealth bomber it rejected the infrared away which made radar invisible by radar. Okay which brings us to the fact that you just now sent me some studies from the NIHB National Home Builders and some of the metal based window film that reflects off the heat and gets to its neighbors is actually melting vinyl siding on the neighboring window films. We've seen reports recently where not only is it melting siding and by the way and it's a fair assumption it's some of the metalized coating of tint and there is a huge differentiation between tint and films today but what happens is when the sun is hitting the metal it's reflecting away as Archimedes so appropriately tried to teach us years ago how we all choose to ignore concavity what happens is that the metals when the sun is reflecting has the opportunity to reflect over 200 degrees back against surfaces. In North Carolina just a few weeks back they had on very good international news coverage where a home caught fire it's home catching fire it's wooden sheds and wooden fences some pretty interesting reports on what happens when the sun is hitting it. Here in Hawaii I find it a little bit different yes there's the scare tactic of the vinyl siding may melt and maybe cause your wood chips to get on fire which can cause a home fire very serious but here in Hawaii we used to have jealousy glass everywhere and it was enough if you were warm you opened your jealousy glass and there was nice air temperature coming through what's happening today is we're finding that it's hot and I don't think people understand the heat the urban heat effect heat island effect and that heat island effect is really causing problems and again for those at home it's a man-made problem it's up in the for up on Kaniwi just outside going north shore maybe it's not as big of an effect because there's less buildings but all the buildings that we're seeing along Alamoana they're big beautiful glass structures and to make them energy efficient and in compliance with what we're calling code we're putting reflective glass on well that sun's energy is not just going to go away when it sees it it may be protective to the interior but it is going to reflect backwards and it's going to heat up our air and it causes several problems okay now the ceramic coating I understand doesn't reflect for the audience IR is infrared and that's the real heat that we really feel the ceramic apparently something has to happen to that heat to not get inside Mr. Newton taught us that energy is neither created nor destroyed so something it's there somewhere where does it go? so the way ceramics work differently and when the ceramic films first came out we used to hear people say but we can't have an absorption level above this percentage and it was right around 50% and the reason was because it will cause thermal stress and break glass and today there are still a lot of people here in Hawaii that will claim ceramics will break glass they've been around on Hawaiian buildings large projects since right around the turn of the century about 2000 not breaking glass and the reason is is because those ceramic films although they may only feel 2mm to our hand and they're about 2mm thick the problem or the good part is of that 2mm each individual layer and there's about 6-7 different layers of property in there working some of it does reflect the solar energy back if you happen to have dual pane glass and we're operating on the interior surface some will re-radiate into that airspace up we're often asked if that has tendency to break glass but it doesn't heat it up enough there is a layer that will be more absorbative if you took an IR gun and tried to measure the surface temperature of glass with film it's going to read hotter it will definitely be warmer and that's our offensive line in football it is holding up the heat at the glass the difference is that when metals heat up and they tend to move it can cause that thermal stress a lot of times we'll see old metal window films with very long fingers on the glass and that's because over time that elasticity is the glass heats up and moves and again on low E glass it's more of a concavity it's where it's bending inward or outward and the film cannot the window tint can no longer stretch back and forth the ceramics are intended to hold the heat and dissipate the energy and again what's called a rapid if not immediate fashion one of the slides which if I'm ever invited back we'll have that slide there was when they were developing the space shuttle tiles for NASA was a very big glowing ceramic tile and on that note as hold it there because I remember it's 2200C we do need to take a break this is Code Green Hawaii Think Tech back in a moment I'm Stan Enigaman and I want you to be here every Friday noon thinktechhawaii.com watch the show be there I pity the fool who ain't Hi I'm Tim Appichella I'm the host for Moving Hawaii Forward and this show is dedicated to transportation and traffic issues in Oahu we are all frustrated by sitting in our cars in bumper to bumper traffic and this show is dedicated to talking with folks that not only we can define the problem but we hopefully come to the table with some solutions so I invite you to join me every Tuesday at 12 noon and let's move Hawaii forward Hi I'm Cheryl Crozier Garcia the host of Working Together on Think Tech Hawaii Join us every other Tuesday from 4pm to 4.30 when we discuss the impact of change on employees employers and the economy Good afternoon again Howard Wigg Cold Green Think Tech Hawaii my esteemed guest today is a habitué of Princeton University and his knowledge shows that habitué I said Andrew Sabatos president and CEO of Cornerstone Energy Solutions we're talking about window film but instead of just talking about window film we're talking about space shuttle technology and when that space shuttle comes back into the earth's atmosphere it gets hot how hot is that and how does that relate to ceramic technology which relates to window film again it will hit over 2000 degrees Celsius again Celsius so 2000 degrees so that heat build up we have to keep the participants of this shuttle safe inside so the heat has to absorb but we want it to dissipate the energy away from that doesn't always mean dissipating the temperature off of the tile but can you touch it and you actually can touch it this is very similar to a brick home if you own a brick home and you have a metal garage door on an August day and the sun is beating right on the front of your house feel free to touch your door you can touch your door or your I'm sorry the brick touch the brick and what's happened to absorb the heat but it's dissipated the energy away from the home if you touch that garage door or even sometimes a glass window you'll put your hand on it and you will burn your fingers in your hand because it is absorbing and holding on to little story I like to tell and I'm gonna love that I'm gonna get to say this here for you my daughter Madison and I will do something that's kind of fun we will take a cookie sheet metal cookie sheet to simulate your metal technologies and you take a brick to simulate your ceramic technologies and we'll stick it in the oven and put it in the oven 200-300 degrees for a little bit of time until the oven is nice and hot and if you open up the oven after that time you can put your hand in there and pick the brick up anybody that's ever done some baking around the holidays if you look at a cookie sheet that's been in the oven for 30 minutes to an hour it no longer is flat it's warbled and that's warbled because the metals would like to change when metals heat up they like to move and they change ceramics don't have that ability ceramics again being more of a nitrite type product versus an oxide yeah and just to we've been talking about metals moving around a bit we should note that cold surfaces or cold elements are tightly packed and relatively stable whereas hot elements expand and move all over the place the molecules move in very wild the fashions are dashing all over the place and when that occurs inside of metals the result is that the metals themselves are actually moving so our next topic is high definition clarity now you've got all these little beads there might be millions of beads in a window but you can see out of that window pretty garsh darn clearly what's going on with that how come you're not looking at a lot of little beads I think we'll have to give a little bit of the credit to the fine folks at Mercedes Benz what happened is that this technology has been sandwiched between glass at the factory level the OEM level and to this day is still as I believe the name came up in the heritage video at the beginning they're still utilizing this and they'll put it between in a home or business or office the glass is not normally right to you in your vehicle as you're driving your front windshield where you need the best clarity and to your side windows where it is almost inches away from your face you need the best optical clarity we are able to sputter these an optical clarity that just does not occur with metals or dies because it's more of a particle versus it being a coating and again that is really one of the bigger differences between a tint and a film these go on as in a true nano scale when they're applied to that substrate we feel that the substrate we utilize as well is probably making a very big difference in that technology and just for the audience's clarity a nano if I'm not mistaken is one billionth of a meter one billionth of a meter so we're talking about some pretty gosh darn little particles very small particles and as we put it up there it can be controlled in any visible light transmission as well so as it's being sputtered we have the ability to change its visible light transmission or how clear or dark something is it can be as dark as a 5 visible light transmission one of the first applications in the state of Hawaii was a ceramic 5 project and it can go all the way as clear as an 85 visible light transmission product so with just about every in between roughly by 10 and just to clarify there you're talking about visible light transmittance and that measures the amount you take your say your inside and you're looking outside at a landscape and if you did not have a window in front of you your visibility would be 1 or 100 but if you take a clear quote-unquote pane of single pane glass and look through that you think it's totally clear but in fact it's more like 0.87 you're just getting 13% of the visibility is being blocked and you're talking about the nanotechnology getting up as high as visible light transmittance as 0.85 which the human eye absolutely cannot perceive any difference at that level glad you brought that up as well there are times where we've actually placed samples on glass and asked people to locate where the sample is and in the middle of a 60 by 65 inch piece of glass we'll stick an 8 inch by 11 inch piece of material on the glass and once it's on there and cured it's very difficult to even see where the lines around it are which makes for seeming larger windows than 72 inches very nice. Here in Hawaii I think that the visible we're getting into a different world here with day lighting I'm not a huge fan of day lighting glass and as a US GBC chairman and somebody who has gone globally to speak for that organization on green projects there's a lot of glass that is coming out in this world today and it's very clear whenever I see certain ones come out I absolutely look I know we're going to find blinds a good example would be the building I sent a picture of to you today many people here in the islands are familiar with the NOAA facility on Ford Island that was built with the most state of the art low e-glass with a 60 visible light transmission so very clear day lighting the problem is that we don't always realize and recognize that 44% of heat is delivered through day light and if it's delivered through day light the fine engineers over at the NOAA facility said I'm so glad you came because the heat is killing us in this building it's very hot as the light passes through because as light passes through the heat comes through now that didn't happen in the past now if it was clear uncoated it would be even hotter so I'll be very fair to the technology the problem is again that you're reflecting the heat away from the building so the building outside is warmer and inside if you're trapping the long wave inside the building and not giving it a place that glass is allowing heat in but not allowing the transfer back out for that to escape most buildings that I see with this are going to coding their entire building with blinds and that comes at a very great cost and it takes away from the day lighting we have a local high school that actually partners is going to be filming they put in brand new very energy efficient low glass and it's coded with construction paper and I can share with you where that school is and actually if you would like to see the installation next week I invite you to come by the teacher very excited because Carnegie Mellon Daylighting Report has taught us several things including wherever positive daylight occurs very good things happen so what happens with positive daylight is students have better attention level better test scores and it's just a more positive environment conducive to learning so with construction paper up 24-7 it's not conducive to learning in the school world where where we spend quite a bit of our time in schools hospitals hotels things of that nature two-way communication is also very important is now you know in very great tech reports from the glass manufacturers themselves they're saying that low e-codings will block cell phone and more importantly our first responder signals our police our fire and our EMS their signals are being blocked at the glass that cell phone tower could be directly outside the building but once the doors close you've lost your signal and we've all experienced walking into a building before where we have absolutely no cell phone reception and usually the glass is to blame for that specifically the metal in the glass the metal in the glass because this didn't happen before one of the things that's become really important to me as I've spent the last several years here in Hawaii is that I'm watching a lot of new construction and I won't pick on buildings specifically by name if anybody's ever seen me speak before you've definitely heard me mention the buildings and I've spoke for the AIA there is going to be a reflectivity requirement in the Kakaka Park area which I'm so happy because it came as direct result of what business partner Rich Goldberg and I've done we've had a passion to save the glass from going into landfills we've seen low e-glass on no less I could probably name off the top of my head 15 buildings that are under 5 years old and that low e-glass in the one report I had sent you this morning the one point it makes very loud and clear once low e-glass starts to corrode there is the replacement is the only alternative glass replacement we don't always have the money to do that especially in our state buildings and I can spend hours talking about why low e-glass corrodes it's a great product and I've gone head to head with some of the finest folks at glass manufacturers at the end of the day their own tech reports say within 75 miles of a coastline and when you start to bend stuff into a concavity saltwater corrosion is here and the only way we can beat that is to go to a more inert type material well getting back to schools this is one of my particular passions I happen to be a I have met Lisa Hachong who started the performance and view studies in California probably 25 years ago and what she found was they would take teacher and a bunch of kids who had very very poor views out of their classrooms like maybe it was totally enclosed or it was curtained or whatever and they measured the performance of these kids and then take the same teacher the same kids and put them into classrooms with great views of the outdoors and this is what you're referring to test scores went up by 20 percent and a lot of these those of us who know public schools the portable classrooms quote-unquote we don't that we could go on and on and on about that but we have unfortunately reached the limits of our time thank you Andrew Sabatos president and CEO of cornerstone energy solutions for talking about high high performance glass keeping the heat out keeping the visibility good thank you very much cold green think tech Hawaii see you next time