 Thank you all for being here today. I do want to call the Administrative Policy Committee together. And of course, if you would just for the sake of record, would you call the roll, ma'am? Mr. Brown? Here. Dr. Bussells? Here. Mr. McDowell? Yes. Thank you very much. There are several things we need to do, and I'm waiting on Shanique to bring us an application or phone. Because that needs to be revisited, just based on what we have on the agenda. What I'd like to do, of course, we need to set some parameters. We wanted to set some parameters for naming of streets and facilities and that sort of thing. We're not going to be able to do that today because there needs to be a revision of our two committees, our two persons on the committee to revisit that document and make sure that we're still, that we can bring this to council. Now, that does not negate the fact that there will continuously be persons who would like for things to be named after them. And of course, we want to honor that. But right now we're setting that moratorium until that document is vetted. Shanique is definitely bringing down that the current application, because we do have a current process in place that we're using prior to the moratorium. You do have in your packets some information regarding street and facility naming. That's correct. You have in your packets the order. You have the honorary renaming of streets, facilities, and sites. You have the resolution in there, the prior resolution. And then you also have the policy that's currently associated with that process. That's correct. So Shanique is bringing down the application. You also have, as Reverend McValmate referenced, to some requests that are currently pending for some renaming. Mr. Simons, ACM Simons has submitted a memo. It's your final page in your little packet outlining those particular renaming and signage requests that have been submitted to him and to the committee to discuss those renaming. So that's in that last page on that memo. And we have those listed on our agenda as well. So Reverend McValmate, what you're saying is you want to continue with the moratorium until the committee has an opportunity to look at the application that we currently have to make any tweaks and changes and adjustments. That's correct. And then you want to revisit these requests for the renaming and signage. That's correct. Now, that's what we want to do. And I think that that would be the fiduciary thing to do is to make sure we've got all bases covered before we go into the renaming, whether it's the street honoring someone or it's a facility that's honoring someone. So yes, we want to continue that. Now, that does not negate the fact that persons can continue to perhaps submit names. Thank you. You got one for everybody. Thank you. Thank you. And of course, the document that Shanice is passing out to committee members is an application that we've used for several years. And what we wanted the committee to do is to look at this document to see whether or not we needed to add anything on or to take some amount. We wanted to make sure that that would take place. The other piece of information, of course, is this does not, and I want to say this again, this does not negate the fact that person will perhaps still submit honorary names for streets and facilities. And we'll do the vetting when this is done. So just for clarification, we would, even though you're changing this, are you interested in changing the policy as well? So you want your colleagues to review the policy that's been included as well? That's correct. So each one of these would have submitted an application then? These have been requests that have been, and I'll let Henry talk about that, but I think these were requests that have just been, they've reached out to request these things. I don't have to say. Yeah, it's great. So there has not been an official application process for these. These have been ones that there's no application. That makes more sense. Through the request, of course, comes from Council. And Councilwoman Herbert submitted those two names. And of course, there has been the addition of one other name, and that's the Sarah Nance Resource Center at the Balefield Center. Those names have been submitted. Ms. Herbert. And just for clarification, one of them is not asking for a renaming. One of them, the building already has the name, is really doing signage. And when we get to that point, Councilwoman Herbert, we will then refer to Mr. Simon, ACM, to look at how much it's going to cost and that sort of thing. Is that correct? We're referencing the Leeward-Mals. Okay. And Ms. Virginia Bedford, Ms. That's a name request. That's a name request, right? Okay, we're looking for signage from Mr. Mals. Is that right? And you all need to collectively agree on that. And essentially, we'll agree on it and then we'll carry it to Council at the appropriate time. And I think that also, and Henry can say it at the mic, even if it's been a Council member request, it's still followed the process. That's correct. Evened. Yeah, we still need an application. The process still has been being followed, that application process. That's correct. So this was submitted? For the community, you know, I don't think those, not for these particular three, but I was just clarifying that there's no, there hasn't, we haven't not been following the current process that you have. It's just that these particular three have been brought forward and they haven't gone through the process yet. And you all wanted to talk about them today, right? Yeah, and we will not talk about it until we are able to consensually agree upon an application that's going to fit not only the honorary naming, but the honorary naming of facilities and that sort of thing. That's the end of the mic. No, you can't, but come over. Come on, come on, Councilwoman. End of the mic. So the only request that I do have is because it was placed on the agenda today, I invited people who were necessary in supporting those requests today because they were on the agenda today. And I was specifically asked, who was I bringing? So that is why I made sure to have people here. And so to not have a discussion after everyone has come, I think would be inconsiderate of their time. So I would like, even if you simply hear from the folks and consider what they say today at a later time, I don't want them to have to come back. Is that fair? That's fair, and that's fine. I would simply say let's have that conversation and those who are present to get to the mic, say what they need to say to mic, because that's going to be considered on full deliberation. Yes, ma'am. Is it my turn? So as reference, Reverend McDowell, do you want to go by the memo and have the individuals present on each of these to speak? Not necessarily. I want to speak primarily and specifically to the project, the Virginia Bedford and Mr. Moss. Yes, sir. And I think that's why we have some folk here for that. Is that right? That's correct. And I was told that I needed to have some people here. And that's fine. That's fine. Come on. Come on. Can I do the official introduction? No, but come on. I'm just playing. I'm just playing. Go ahead. And only because they're two, because they're two different issues. So the first one is the Leroy Moss Multi-Purpose Center at Hyatt Park. We have pulled all the information and we know for a fact that the name has been changed. The family, and I wanted to acknowledge the family. Ms. Jacobs, Moss Jacobs. Ms. Moss Jacobs and her granddaughter. Great granddaughter. They're here from Leroy Moss's family as representatives. And then we also have representatives from the neighborhood because as a part of my due diligence in talking with staff, we checked with the neighborhood and made sure it was okay with them. I went to Mayor Bob, make sure there was not a particular reason why it wasn't done. And I went to Councilman Davis to make sure there wasn't any particular reason why there was no sign put up on the building with the name. So I wanted to give that preference in these particular questions that you have, but I wanted to make sure somebody else besides Tina Herbert was here to say that is just a signage issue. And I think what Mama wants to say is, and the sign is to be the name on the building. But I think we all, I think we got that part. The other one is Virginia Bedford. Before you jump to that. So we, the name, honorary naming has already happened. It's just not on the sign. It's already happened. And years ago. You just need to do it. All right. Yes. And there's currently a plaque that's inside the building. Right. We talked about outside. For this signage to be out, external on the building. Got it. And I guess one of the things that I was hoping we would get clarity on too. And I guess we just deferred the parts and read how making sure that all the signs are the designs are similar. I don't know how we handle the different signs on different buildings, but I would defer to staff on that. But the main point of this would be to get the name, the full name of the building on the building. Yes, ma'am. I'll just put my hand back there. You've got this full name. That's what I said. That was, um, Jacqueline Ford could not be here for she as... This is Jackie Williams, mama. I'm sorry. No, this is the same as mine. You want to come up to the mic? Ma'am, ma'am, come up to the mic so they can hear you. You may need to take off your mask. Can you sign through? Yes. Okay. Jacqueline couldn't be here this morning, but, so this afternoon, she asked her grand niece to speak for her. And of course, after she speak, I would like to speak how important it is for it not to be just a small pack at the door. Okay, would you want to go ahead and go? Okay, I'll go, you guys. My name is Breonna Kale. I am currently a park ranger for South Carolina State Parks at Susqueen. Good all. So it's kind of my thing. Thank you for having this moment to be able to recognize my great-grandfather and the things that he's done. So yeah, honestly, truly, I've watched the family work hard to get the recognition and the research as to the name being Lee Wyrmoss Mercy Purpose Center. And so that is truly our end goal. We understand there is a plaque inside. However, in my opinion, that is my great-granddaddy park. That's what I always identified it as is the Lee Wyrmoss Park. And so I have heard various stories of the impact that he's had of creating sidewalks, creating different opportunities for the CNI community. I've seen, heard how he created, not created, put in street lights in Columbia and just making sure that this place was a great place to be for the community and for the peoples that was in it. And he passionately saw to create that legacy. And I would love for that legacy to continue. And I would love to be able to have something to show for my future children, whomever they may be. But my nieces that I have, Granddaddy Moss's great nieces. Five generations. So yeah, we have five generations that still say his name about every other day. And we want to make sure that you all know the work that he has done and that it's not erased. And that is something that I would love to see happen. And I do appreciate you guys taking the time considering it. Thank you. I think she said the wrong. I think so. And very well. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. Get ready. I'm sorry. Tina, you have something else? While you were doing that, I was trying to see if anyone over here wanted to say. Okay. All right. Is there someone else who wants to speak? Yes, ma'am. Would you tell us who you are? I'm Janie Nelson. And this is Mr. Lara Munson. This is Ms. Pat Myers. We're all from Hart Park Neighborhood Association. We're just in support of signage. As I thought it was going to be something about signage. And we want to thank the committee for all the hard work you do every day. And we want to also acknowledge our city council lady, Ms. Tina Herbert, for what she does. And in support of the signage of LeRond Mall Center. Thank you so much. Thank you very much. We heard you all loud and clear. Go ahead. If you would allow us as we continue this journey to make sure documents are vetted and completed and perfected, that would help us tremendously. You know, I'm sure that there's going to be perhaps a question as it relates to calls on both ends. As we look at this, this request, I'm not going to ask you how much it's going to cost. I think that that cost probably need to be evaluated and then come forth later on with a cost. Sure. Talk to us a little bit about that. So just for clarity, this process comes to the Administrative Policy Committee for consideration. So what you have before you is things that you all can discuss and to consider. And once you consider this, it then goes back to full council for a vote. The LeRond, you all have to decide that. You all decided that it comes out of this committee. And if you all agree that these changes, you want to implement these changes, then it goes back to full council for approval. But the clarity with Hyatt Park, the name Hyatt Park of course remains. That's the name of the park. It's Hyatt Park, the multi-purpose center. They did a dedication in 1996 honoring LeRon Moss. And they did name it the LeRon Moss multi-purpose center. So the clarification is they want the, there's a plaque on the inside that has Mayor Bob Cobble and all the council members that was there at that particular time. There is a plaque on the inside acknowledging that. So the request is they want to take the name LeRon Moss multi-purpose center and put it on the building on the outside. Not necessarily to rename the park itself, because it's going to be Hyatt Park. That's going to remain. But just to name the building, as it was done back in 1996, we want to put that signage on the exterior of the building. So that's something that you all have to consider. And whether that will go back to full council for full vote, along with those other items that are on the actual agenda. All right. Thanks, sir. Yes, sir. So can we? I hope you can consensually do this for us. Thanks for being necessary for us to do this in part and making sure that this document is perfected before we move. I mean, we've got the two requests before us. Certainly can't act on either one of them until through bid in this. What do you think, Peter? But I think this is a further record. I think this, thank you for being here. And I think that this is something that I would be very supportive of after we sort out some of the procedural things. Yeah, I don't think the committee is not going to say yay or nay. But what we are going to say, and what I'm going to say is that I support it wholeheartedly. There are some things that we need to do in terms of making sure that the document and the application of process proceeds in the prescribed way. Once this is done, and the committee, of course, will look at bidding this document as a perfected document, then, of course, I think just to follow procedures, we will need to have an application done. An application for the renaming. That's correct. No, no, no. Building is already named. Right. So why do we need an application for the building that's already named? It involves facilities. And a part of the resolution, of course, the part of this is that if we do anything with renaming a facility, we need to have an application out. It has to be an application. But it's not renaming. Well, I think we just going to have to make that decision whether or not if we rename the neighbor or most. And what we're actually doing is putting that building, putting the name of the building on the building. Is that right? It might be worth in the application adding a section of the type of signs that we would like, or whether it's going to be naming a building, or it's missing from this is the just street names. The other day, all we're trying to do is put some structure around this that we don't have. Which we don't have. And I think you're absolutely right. I think if we put in this document that is missing from this document a naming of a building that is currently there but not on the outside, we want to make sure that that process proceeds itself and goes in a very functional way. So just to be clear. Again, just to be clear, just to be clear with everyone, there was a dedication back in 96. And it was determined by the mayor at that time in council that that building will be named the Leroy Moss Multipurpose Center. Inside the building, there is a plaque that confirms that. And it has that name inside of the building. The family is asking, back then, for whatever reason, the actual name was not displayed on the outside of the building. So the act today is to see if that particular name could be just displayed on the outside because it wasn't done back in 96. Is that the case? We're very clear on that. I guess what we're saying is that it's likely that this will come up again, and then it's likely that it'll come up again. And all we're trying to do is add a little structure to the process. They seem like we're trying to avoid the process, but we're engaged in the process. And everybody knows I'm pro-signage. So that's not going to be a problem. So all we're trying to do is really just get our collective arms around this process. And now there's an additional process of signage and other stuff. So all we're trying to do is take a little bit more of the time to make sure that we're helping the process or not somehow. Because there may be situations in the future where we do want to name a building, and that's not captured in this application that it's not a street name, but that it's a process for that. So I don't have that. But I don't have that in front of me, right? That's not a day application. So the application has a check mark for street naming topper. And it has a check for facility and site naming on here. So you all would like to add another distinction of just to put a sign, just to add signage. There's also outlined how the signage, like the words, don't exceed a certain number. I mean, a certain number of characters. There's already some parameters and a policy. So you want to review that. An example about Mike, Mr. Chair, if you all think about an Eau Claire print facility, I'm just trying to give you some examples in the past. When it's come up, because it has come up in the past, there is a policy in place for naming, I don't know, Theresa or Henry. If it's not in front of them, we probably OK, that's what I thought I'd ask for it to be in front of them. We've gone through this a couple of times, and I just want to make sure before you all want to see what's already out there. So upstairs, most recently, what the City Council did was, I think, just Washington's signages to name the conference room upstairs. So there's signage outside of the conference room. Like this, I didn't even know about. That's the thing, like I just. Also, at Eau Claire print facility, Mr. Henry Hopkins, Mr. Jetton, Mr. Manley, those conference rooms have been that. This whole process has been done. So I think the process is missing. Like, I don't know about those name changes. There were lots of signage. And I know we joke about District 2 having a lot of honorary street signs. But I think it speaks to the process that like you can get away with not all of Council knowing about some of these changes, which most of the time we probably would be supportive. But the current process does not lend to a general awareness across Council what is actually happening in terms of signage and street namings. I had no idea about those conference rooms. And I think it's great. But I'd like to know who they are and why we're, you know, that's what we're missing in this process. And it's separate from the discussion of some of the naming requests that have come in. It was done at City Council and you all voted on those. So that last one in particular. So I just want to make sure before we were clear on what the process is and what it is y'all are asking us to change. And this is a signage discussion right here. It honestly does have to do with the naming piece of streets and work facilities. But I think the thing that is significant, of course, is that if we're going to look at this document, protect this document and send it to Council, it needs to be a document that's going to sort of umbrella everything that is required. That whether it's a sign on the inside of the building and we're going to push it from the inside to the outside. We just want to make sure all of us are signing on the same. Yeah, I mean, some of you are to approve, regardless. So you got two situations where we just described about Leroy Moss, but you also have the renaming, like for example, let's use Virginia Beckford as an example. You got Irwood Park. So the request for Virginia is to name the community center at Irwood Park after Virginia Beckford. So that is a naming of an existing facility that is just encompasses of Irwood Park. And that particular building is called just the community center at Irwood Park. So they want to name that after her. So that has no existing name associated with it. So that's a process that you all have to go through, of course, with an application that comes here and you take it back for full counsel. So you got two issues. We have to decide, either way it goes, you all have to approve. We're taking an existing name facility that has the recognition on the inside. You all have to approve still that the name goes on the outside. So that's something that you all have to have a discussion about and then approve as well. And we're not going to have that discussion until, now we can approve it. And when I say approve it, we can consensually. Approve it. But there has to be some eyes dot in some T's Christ. I understand. The other side of that, of course, we will make at the necessary time to make that recommendation to counsel. They either approve it. Now, after that, we will look for some consensual dollars if dollars are involved to make both of those things take place. Correct. Are we clear? We're clear. Ma'am. I'm sorry, it's not clear, it's been. So, there's no talk. I don't have any. Yes, ma'am. I suck. Can I say one, I want to make sure I'm clear and then I have one other person who is here so they don't have to come back. Please. Okay. And I just want to reiterate that I'm here because I was told I needed to come here to this committee. And I think the only reason we had to come here was because of the hold on signage. But normally we would have just filled out an application for Virginia Bedford. Is that correct? There's a moratorium so you wouldn't be able to fill out the application until this is the moratorium. Well, I've had an attorney or two say when was the moratorium put out? It was at a council meeting. The council did, I did ask that holding on a rare naming of streets and facilities be suspended. It was referred to this committee. I'm sorry? You referred it to this committee. The issue of the moratorium. We did it initially at council though. But it was referred back here to us. Yes ma'am. Okay. So I think the only thing that was not clear was that there is in fact a moratorium because we probably would have said, well, maybe we need to wait. But just for our clarity, once we have this discussion and this application is updated, we'll complete it and do whatever needs to be done. But I do want to get my good friend. No, I shouldn't say that. This lady I know in the neighborhood, Kathleen McDaniel to come and talk just to, you all will know that the neighborhood is in support of renaming. That is a, no, that's a naming. It's a renaming. No, there's no name on there. It has no name. Yes, so it's a naming. Facility sign name. Facility sign naming. Yes ma'am. Hey y'all, good afternoon. Again, I'm Kathleen McDaniel. I live at 3103 Lakewood Avenue and have been a homeowner in the Earlwood neighborhood since 2008, lived there since 2004. And from the time that I moved into the neighborhood, Virginia Bedford scooped me up and told me what I was going to do to make the neighborhood a better place. And I have cooperated fully. And in the time that I've lived there, what I have come to realize is that that neighborhood is what it is almost directly because of her work starting in the 80s and the 90s. And then transferring that institutional knowledge to me and other leaders in the neighborhood, which there's two parts to that. One, her knowing what to do and how to do the work. And the second part is training other leaders to come behind her to continue that work. And lots of people are real good at doing the work themselves. Not everybody is good at training other people to come in and carry on that work. And that was Virginia's absolute most amazing trait. She died a couple of months ago and is a huge loss to our whole neighborhood. One of the main things that she was able to accomplish for the neighborhood and for this city as a whole was the revitalization of Earlwood Park, the construction of the community center, moving the parks department down to Earlwood Park, redoing the nature trails, getting the disc off. Earlwood Park is a jewel, not only in Earlwood but for the whole city. And because of Virginia's work, I mean, if you want me to, I could draw you a diagram and write you a whole brief on it, but my neighborhood right now is like the hottest place to live in town. North Main is the coolest part of this city right now. I mean, curiosity, coffee, warm mouth, all of that. That is because of Virginia. So not only is she important to the city of Columbia's history in terms of just community development, but also in terms of the effect that she has had on the economic development of this city, warrants naming that parks building in her honor. I can think of no better person to name it after, and I can think of no greater honor for her. That was her life's work and it would be the best possible thing that we could do. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. Ms. Rivers, do you have any more? I am done. Thank you, ma'am. All of my friends and guests have spoken. Thank you very much. And whatever you all need me to do, I will make sure it gets done on our end. I'm sure you're here from us. Thank you all so much for being here today. Particularly, thank you for your participation. Thank you for what you've done and what you're going to do. And we certainly appreciate you for that. The city appreciates you for your willingness to come and be a part of this gathering today. If you'd like to stay the rest of the time, you can. If you'd like to get up and leave, you can do that. I can do it. Thank y'all. Thank y'all. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Thank y'all. You're gonna give Jackie our regards here. I'm the same. She's having a country. I don't listen about the records, but you know how I listened to the young ladies think about Urban Park and what the person that you were talking about being a boy. Mr. Neville Amos was high at representative, taking care of high at Park for 18 years. He's the reason why those kids have a basketball court, baseball court. He and his wife stole hot dogs, candy, and spaghetti dinners to build that center for the neighborhood. Because when his grandchildren came home and they said, he's told them to get out and play. They said, I have no place to play. And he said, we're gonna see about that. He worked hard and diligently to have that building built. And I think it is very important. Thank you. Not for the neighborhood, but for his children, grandchildren, great-grandchildren, and great-great-grandchildren to know who he is. Yes, ma'am. My name is Rosalyn Mose Jacobs. Ms. Jacobs, thank you very much. Anything else you need to say? You said it today. You pulled my leg. Please give Ms. Jackie our regards. I understand the day I was in the country. He's actually watching. He's watching. Oh, she's watching? She told us we did a good job. Great. Thank you all here. Thank you. So you do have... I just wanna make sure that we're on the right track. Remember now, we got two different issues here. We got a name on the outside of the building. And then we got Ms. Bedford who has, wants to rename something on the inside of the building. Isn't that right, Henry? Is that it? You have a renaming and just a signage on a building. That's correct. So we're fine with that. What I wanna ensure is that we do our homework, making sure that when we get this thing perfected, the committee goes through it. Hopefully next month we will have time enough at our next meeting to say this is what we're going to do. And we have something ready hopefully for council. So you wanna hold this until the next meeting and then forward it along to council? That's correct. Now that does not, again, that does not negate the idea of the notion that someone comes up and says, here's the street we wanna name and honor somebody. We just cannot do the actual sign-in and the placing of that sign on the street or facility until we've got this document in place. Madam city manager? Well, Henry stepped out. So I was just gonna try to answer any questions you all had. Any questions? I think we're good. So our homework is to take a look at this. Yes, ma'am. Come back with edits and any questions about the process. Okay. Yeah. I think part of the thing is that I think there's probably, will eventually need to be more than this. Yeah. In your packet, there's a policy that relates to power and street naming as well as facility and site naming. So there is a policy and there's a process that has been in place prior. So any kind of changes you all would like to make that I ask that you do that in addition to reviewing your application. Okay, that's fine. And that's what we wanna do. And I think it just allows us to place ourselves in a safety zone when we got other instances like that, like this, and we don't have a policy. I mean, one of the things that I'm concerned about is that we don't have another situation like we have. So I mean, and to be honest with you, it's that process followed the process until it wasn't acceptable to somebody within the area. So I mean, it's tricky, especially when you get, it's easy getting, you know. One person to get a letter of support, but when you don't have, it seems like this was a more intensive process that would help with making it. So this would be probably, and I'm just giving you historically since I've been in this role, and this will make the third iteration then of making the process more intensive. I get it. And so I think the point you just made is you have to really think about that. Because there used to be no process. It was just, you know, if someone put it out, and that's been the case, you know, if someone put it out, and that's been years ago, and we've moved forward to this process, which has worked. I mean, I don't, well, and I don't, yes, and I'm not gonna get into that. I think there may, I think with that, there's still some other things maybe going on about timing and conversations, whatever. In general terms, the process in front of you has worked. I think that the issue with Hyatt is still different than this, because it was, that's just a signage. The signage never, for whatever reason with that, previously seated council, they didn't do a sign on the outside of the building. They took the action to do it to name the multi-purpose center what it was. This is just a matter of you all want us to put a sign on the outside of the building about that. The other two issues before you would just follow that process. And so with Ms. Bedford or whatever the, I don't remember the other item that I think is being pushed forth by council member, Sarah Nance, then it would follow the process. I guess what I'm concerned about mostly is I just don't wanna see another family embarrassed through this process. So is she going? That's all I care about. So I don't want somehow that somebody comes back later on and says, I disagree with this. And then we have that. So that's my only concern is I don't wanna see another family embarrassed through something being named and then being undone. Right. And so that process with the letters and going to the community and getting people to sign off has to be followed. And then that has to be done ahead of coming to say we're doing something. And I'm not sure that again, I mean, it's not for debate at this point, but if that happens like it should happen as it has been happening, I haven't seen a recent issue. I guess what I'm saying is we did have an issue and- But that process has to be followed. The process was followed, right? Or not. And that's what I'm saying. So we'll- Well, okay, so do you wanna move forward the signage thing? No, I don't until we get this done. Okay. Until we get this done. Signage is, I shouldn't say a move issue because it's a very relevant issue. We need to do this first before we do anything else. And while there are, well, I think that's what we need to do. We're gonna come at it Pam with specifically how you want to change the policy and the application. Absolutely. Okay. The policy and the application is right now. That's before us. Yes, I'm, okay. All right. Okay. I sort of digressed a little bit at the very beginning of this conversation. I wanna talk a little bit about Peyton, you and I had this conversation about a month ago, I think. And this was a reference in a tennis rights, a very intense conversation. I don't need you to come up to it. I don't need you to come to it. May not be a need to do that. We had a good conversation about tennis rights and the ramifications of tennis rights. Some time ago, the mayor and I had a conversation. That's when Logan was here. And we looked at this whole issue of tennis rights and how that might impact our city and what we could very well do about what we could very well do. After hearing that, of course, we went into Logan's process of gathering information, of course, passing it on to you, make a long story short, passing it on to you, you and I meeting, having some conversation. And of course, my intent was to sort of move forward with that. I've since learned this because you're always in a learning posture. Isn't that right? Isn't that right? Isn't that right, TK? We're always in a learning process. And of course, what I've sort of ascertained is that the state housing has within its preview the whole issue of tennis rights and how that impacts, I wanna say, every county in South Carolina. Is that right? Isn't that right? Yeah, I'm gonna say yes, it's right. Tennis rights, of course, becomes one of the pivotal points in the state housing. And the packet, of course, that is involved when we look at housing complexes. We look specifically at tennis rights back in December because that was a real issue for us and for the city. And of course, we wanted to tackle that hands-on. But it's my understanding that to tackle that as a city is very volumous because there's the enforcement piece you have to look at which of course, state housing does that. I don't think it's in our preview right now to go beyond what we've already done with state housing as it relates to tennis rights. And I think anything we do today would sort of negate everything. I don't wanna turn that, I don't wanna, I don't wanna play that record over again. What's your old saying? So to kind of say back what you were saying, the South Carolina Housing Organization has a tenants bill of rights that's included with every lease that's administered for some of these housing properties that are overseen by Columbia Housing. So while our approach is important, it would be duplicating efforts. That's correct. And that we should defer to them for that tenant bill of rights. Yeah, we defer to them, it's their baby. I mean, it's their baby to rock or either pee. So my suggestion there would be that perhaps if they're somewhere appropriate on our website or whatever channel makes the most sense for us to have that tenant bill of rights available and make it accessible to folks and use our platform to allow people to know that those are the rights and those are what exists. Even if it's not that we're using our own, we're using the one that's been established. And then my other suggestion would then be to work with Columbia Housing to raise awareness that that bill of rights exists. Sure, so do we think, I mean, do we think that that bill of rights is serves the purpose that we were specifically looking for at the time this came up? So this is the copy of it, so you can see it. It's really state and federal laws that really cover what a person's rights are as a tenant. And so that's as Reverend I was saying, it's really the business that they're in, HUD prescribes parts of it, South Carolina Housing assists with that, whether it's legal assistance, what requirements a landlord is supposed to provide to a tenant, those are all covered in those resident rights and responsibilities. Again, HUD and state housing are the main enforcers, the main people who establish these rights and responsibilities and they're the most appropriate people to refer any citizen to if they have any issues. They of course are willing to provide education if we wanna do a workshop or we wanna do something. That would be great. Any development or something that's going to assist residents in knowing what their rights are, the housing HUD and South Carolina Housing are more than happy to partner to do that education. So I was just gonna say, I recall the draft tenant bill of rights that we created referred to the same state and federal laws. There are no city specific laws necessarily. And if there is, I would just ask that we make that available to people online in addition to this document or if we do any workshops or opportunities for people to understand and learn what their rights are to include any caveats or exceptions that we have for the city as well. Not negating the fact that there can be training workshops. There can be workshops available to help us all understand. And Peter, I hear what you're saying because tenant rights in one instant, it did not work. I think though, if we had, I think what you're getting at is a whole notion is how do we separate that? What I was gonna suggest is, so if someone, let me ask a question, then I'll suggest something, I think. So if someone, a tenant in the city of Columbia has an issue and this has been, we've well messaged and documented and gone through all the best way possible to educate people and to inform people. If someone has a problem, what would they do? They would contact South Carolina Housing or HUD in order. And it depends on the property, who is the ultimate responsibility for the property. So if we could, is it possible that we could make it where people in the city of Columbia had an avenue to address this issue with someone in the city versus someone- I think the problem is we don't manage the properties or any jurisdiction over the properties except for code enforcement. I guess what I was saying is even if we were just, it would be interesting to me and I think it would be relevant information that if we were aware that there were 327 complaints within the city of Columbia in a year, that would be relevant to me that I would never have any access to if someone's just kind of competing. I think it's relevant information, I'm not asking us to do anything other than to try to gather relevant information about people who live in our cities who have problems. And how do you access that? How do you take that problem? Yeah, and if it was just information that we reviewed on a quarterly or semi-annually basis or something, it would at least give us some information about do we have these issues or do we not have these issues? So I'm worried that it feels like, it feels like we're, and I'm not saying we are, it just feels like we're checking a box and moving on. So. And how do we realistically get to a position where there is a concern? Yeah, I just think- And it's been heard and you're going to at least try to make something happen. I just don't feel, I don't feel like I can drive home today feeling like I've done something good today on this issue. I think my question then would be, so we do get data from calls of service, right? When they call to CPD in terms of issues with safety and stuff, oftentimes we're able to get that information. But that being said, what I would then worry about is if we do capture this information, but then we can do nothing about it. I don't know that, but again, all I'm saying is if somebody follows the process and they put a complaint in and it's within the city of Columbia, I don't know how it can be disadvantageous for us to know about it. That's all I'm saying. I just don't see how that could be not responsible for us to know that someone who lives in the city filed a complaint through the proper process. I'm not asking us to set up another process. I'm just asking for us to know what's going on in our own city. That's all. I do think we have partnerships with, well, I know we have partnerships with state housing, we have partnerships with HUD, so there would be ways for us to get that information. That's all I'm asking is to have access to the information about our citizens. That's all. Mr. Pam, how doable then is it, I heard you say just a moment ago, state provides that kind of educational piece and training piece. Could that be an integral part of the training? As far as the number? Get it, no. Get it, hearing something, whether or not it's shared with us, we need to know. And the property owner needs to know how do we adequately do that. I really don't even see in here how that touches what I do. There's not, that's why I'm asking, that's why I'm sort of reiterating again the importance of having educational training. It may be necessary for us to do that. I mean, this is a serious issue in the life of this city as it relates to houses. Yes, ma'am. So when the problems occurred at the colony and we were going through everything we were going through with that and made trips to DC and came back and subsequently I met myself with state housing and the local representatives of HUD. And I expressed a lot of what you all are saying and how could we as a city collaborate with them to try to ensure that the residents, they are specifically, but even broader if there are other similar properties, how could we ensure that they were getting the proper assistance that was in point, Mr. Brown, and just being frank and honest with that situation. I mean, there was no lack of people reaching out to us. So we absolutely knew what was going on and through code enforcement and cyberbustles as said in police and fire and everybody else. I mean, we were absolutely, we're collecting that as it occurs and what's occurred in previous instances that Allen Benedict Court and ultimate unfortunate deaths that occurred back then. So the city by virtue of being the city gets the information and through our life safety mechanisms that we have to follow, then we're involved with that. But what occurred in those conversations that I subsequently instructed the staff to do with community development, et cetera. But at the time, you know, now we have a new community development director who has worked at state housing. So I think this opportunity now for education for hopefully some workshops to be conducted and for us to ask them more clearly for on an ongoing basis, how can we get information from you all when there are tenant issues at these properties? I think there's an opportunity there now and a mechanism for us to do that. We just need to put it in place. We'll appreciate that. Versus you all establishing a whole nother mechanism of enforcement that we really can't enforce. And I would note of the affordable housing task force Councilman Herbert reminded me that they are also doing some promotional videos and collateral and in that they want to include some of the tenants rights and responsibilities it's on their list of ideas and things that they would like to include in terms of content. But I think I go back to let's use our platform to help people that live in the city know what their rights are and use what's already available and communicated in a way that makes sense for the city. That would be my recommendation. I would concur with that. I mean, in my mind, you know, again, I'm happy with us attaching ourselves to the standards that are ready. What'd you go from? Yeah, what? Are you gonna acknowledge the mayor? The mayor, mayor. Do you really? I just, I wanted to add and I understand the process and we're not trying to reinvent the wheel. My concern is that there's great these processes are in place but how are they actually helping the folks? Because I'm getting phone calls all the time and there's no resolve on the other side. So what is our mechanism as a city with HUD and others to make sure these tenants rights are actually being taken up and they're getting the support? That's my fear is all of this sounds great about publicizing and getting but where's the action on the backside? We haven't seen that yet. We haven't seen the support from HUD and other folks on the enforcement side and that's my biggest fear. So I just wanna make sure I'm all in on sharing information doing it but I need to know that what we're doing gets the attention to support those residents and we've been through the multitude of people and it's not just one housing it's been a whole series and that's why we ended up doing this and talking about it is to make sure so whatever path y'all recommend let's make sure that we understand what's the backend because it doesn't do us any good to share information if there's no enforcement and there's nobody backing these folks up because if they're just spinning their wheels and the thing and they're getting pushed out or they're not being supported what's the purpose of it? We're not solving a problem we just exacerbate one. I'm glad you did and that's kind of my concern is that if we don't have any data about these complaints and they're in the city and all these complaints are always about the little guy and we always talk about I consider that's our oath is to protect every citizen but specifically the little guy who doesn't have a voice or doesn't know how to use that voice so it does concern me that this is what we said but we're kind of O-laying this a little bit but if I had the data of what I asked for is if anybody who's a citizen in Columbia files a complaint that we could have access to that complaint. And so that brings up the question is is maybe getting with community development and sitting down with HUD and saying, all right, will these complaints come in? And I'm adjaded by it because of the experiences that we've had in the last year and so sorry if I don't trust the system yet to support those residents. And so I want some more assurances that it's not just about sharing the information that there's actually somebody gonna do something about it when they do complain. I agree. Well, that's a missing and there's no action to take. It just has your rights. I was just saying, I wouldn't even, I'm a pretty smart guy. I wouldn't know what to do. If I was given this, I wouldn't know what to do. I just want to do. I mean, I have no idea. It doesn't have to do, it just has no idea. I want to think that you're exactly right because one of the things that we have not done, we have not looked at this document because we knew then, we knew back in December two years ago, a year and a half ago, whenever, that tenants' rights were being abused. We knew that. That always happened. And I think, and you're absolutely right. Not only two years ago. Ever since man can walk up right. This is the way it's worked. It's not about, yeah, whether or not they could get about big. I think the point is, we're in a society where tenants' rights are being abused every day. We've got this packet here that sort of outlines what that bill of rights ought to be. How does that negate to the fact when there's a brother in that apartment who's in a wheelchair and can't get out of that wheelchair because it's not handicapped, accessible? What are the rights? When a mother is in an apartment and there's mold and mildew in that apartment, what happens when gas is turned on and you can't turn it off and folk are having to evacuate the premises? How do those things relate into the city's equation? What we decided to do two years ago was to do the fiduciary thing was to make sure that our residents were taken care of. And that was a right. And that was a right of passage, I think, to move folk from a deep and desmos situation into something that gave some glimpses of hope. So I think we're on the right track. And I think, Peter, I think you're absolutely on target. Is it gonna make a difference if you've got this packet here and it's not being adequately transferred or translated into the city's policies? No, I think that's a big task now. The missing link of that task, the missing link on my mic, is that we haven't followed up with the field director from the local HUD office who offered to hear, she's already heard everything y'all are saying from me and then they offered to follow up to do these next steps. If after that, we still aren't seeing a difference. And after that, when we asked for, okay, in addition to the education and the workshops, because you have specifically heard these concerns on this granular level. And you also, can you also give us the data for when the tenants are now, because she also gave me the points of contact for HUD subsidized properties like the ones you're talking about who tenants, when they are still having a problem, even after they've been apprised of their rights, who they are supposed to contact for assistance, which isn't the city. So I would just suggest that we take her up and hold them accountable for doing what they said they would do. Now that's incumbent on me and the staff to do what I asked them to do to set these things up. And I think in the process of our own staff turnover and time that hasn't happened. So I'll just ask to let us try that first. And if that still doesn't work, then I hear what you're saying. Yeah, I'm fine. Again, I'm a big process person. So I wanna follow the process. I just think it's imperative that we have this responsibility and that we own it. And if we could follow up with that person and follow up in such a way that is not being followed up when you've got something catastrophic to happen, or something happens in a residential community where folks' lives are being just totally, for lack of a better word, wasted. And we find ourselves more chaotic than we are developmental. I think it would be to our advantage. And I'm just as concerned about the duplex on Leesburg Road. Oh, absolutely. I mean, it doesn't have to be a huge complex. I worry about these people. And I worry about that we should be doing something even when I know I don't know what that is. But it worries me that, if I understood the context of the problem, it may worry me more or less, but I don't. I don't have any idea what the issue is from a bigger picture. None. But Ms. Wilson, I think you're right on target. I think we have not utilized that part of tenant's rights as much as we should have. And I think it's time for us to kind of step to the plate to simply say, we're gonna utilize that person, or utilize that whomever he is over that. Hold him accountable. Absolutely. And it eases off of a lot of us who are in these kinds of situations we have to endure these kinds of situations. And I think you're right on target with that. Now, in terms of process, yeah, ma'am. I said after that attempt, I'm gonna hear you loud and clear, I just feel like I owe it to you to take the field office director of HUD up on her offer to mail this town. So we at least need to try. Ma'am, I would add that I think it'd be very helpful then if we're going to give them, because this is supposed to be in their warehouse long before our discussion. I'd like to know what they do to have them follow up and their procedure. How many people do they have employed to go after that? Because if they don't have the resources, then we're backing up. So I think it'd be helpful that maybe she could share with us the field supervisor share with us their process and how they're handling it now because we're not seeing it. And how are they, are they inspecting these folks who get HUD funding for rental properties? Are they auditing to make sure that these tenant rights are being signed and that the tenants know what their rights are? Now, who's following up on that? These are all the loopholes that we have continued to run in and that's the reason we went down this path. So, you know, give them the opportunity to share with it, but I want facts and figures with it. Sir, one of the things that I think would be helpful for us as a committee to bring, who's that, who is this person? Christine Boyd, the field office director for the Columbia field office of HUD. All right, can we bring her in? This is not a congressional hearing. Can we bring her in? Can we bring her in just to say to her, this is how the process ought to be and should be and how can you help us? And we help you in this process when something like that happens. Well, Ms. Boyd has been very, Ms. Boyd has made herself available to me and the staff in the past, I'm sure if we asked her. Can I bring her in? I'd like to bring her in next meeting. Let's make note of that. What you all think consensually? That's fine with me. I think it's very important. These are residents. These are persons who live in these environments and I want to make sure that we can adequately follow. All right, can we do that, Ms. Pam? Yes, sir. All right, you all right? We'll talk about this. What about you, Peter? Absolutely. All right, okay. Anything else? Wait a minute, let me say this. Stand up, young lady. You did a good job. You did a good job. You're just not talking today. Thank you, sir. You did a good job. Peyton and I had a good conversation about tennis rights. I thought we were on the right track until we found out something different. And that's fine. It's all about tennis rights. And it's not about me or you. It's about all of us, well, in this city of ours. So thank you. Keep all of what you got in your head and in your heart. In your heart. Because we're gonna need you later on down the road. Thank you very much. Thank you all. Thank you. You're gonna ask the mayor if he's got anything else to say? Mr. Mayor, you got anything else to say? Thank you, sir. Dr. Bussells. I motion to adjourn. Second. So moved. Okay. Thank you.