 And co-chairs, you are welcome to start the meeting and then we can wait a few moments or- Is it okay if we just wait a couple of minutes? Okay. Hi, everybody. Hi, Russ. Hello. Oh, there's Ms. Pat. Hi, everyone. Hi. Hi, Ms. Pat. Hi. Do you know if Mr. Bowman and Mr. Cage are joining us? I think Mr. Cage has football practice, possibly. I know that my son is there now too, so he might, that's possibly where he's been. I think we should start. Yeah, Bobby, good. I'm gonna need to leave the call at 7.30. Yeah, we should probably get going then. Yeah. I'm sorry, I'm just looking for the script right now. I apologize, everyone. Good job. Hi, my name is Alicia and I'm calling this meeting order as co-chair. Excuse me. Governor Baker's extension of the March 12 order suspending certain provisions of the open meeting law allows us to hold this virtual meeting of the working group. Given that we have a quorum present, I am calling the September 22nd, 2021 meeting of the community safety working group to order at 6.05 p.m. I will call upon each member of the working group at that time, they should unmute their mic and say present. This will indicate that they can hear me and we can hear them. Please remember to mute your mic after saying present. Deborah Ferreira. Present. Russ Fernan Jones. Present. Pat Ananabaku. Present. Brianna Owen. Present. I want to take a couple of minutes to review the agenda. We will first hear any public comment that members of the public want to provide to the working group. We will not respond to your comments, but we will listen to your comments carefully. We will then hear comments from members who have something to report. Then we will get right into the agenda as follows. A, presentation to council details. B, CSWG report part B. C, crest implementation follow up. D, IFB 6 follow up. E, proposed timeline and meeting schedule. F, resident oversight board follow up. And then G, hopefully the town manager will be joining us for the last 30 minutes of this meeting for a conversation. So our first order of business is the public comment section of the agenda. If any members of the public would like to make a statement, please raise your hand. I will recognize you and ask Ms. Moyson to turn on your microphone. I ask that comments be limited to no more than three minutes. The working group will not be responding to your comments, but we will be listening carefully. I do not see any hands raised at this time. Okay, great. So we can move into members reports. This is the time for members to update us on any work they are doing or events that are coming up. Does anyone have anything they would like to share? Okay, I will get right into the agenda. First, I would just like to update you all that you can see in the packet, the email from Lynn. We have gotten confirmation that we will be able to present our recommendations for part B on Monday, October 25th at 6.30, a special town council meeting. And she has presented us with two options. One, the presenters will be panelists and the remaining committee members will be in the audience. And option two, we can have the entire committee present at the meeting, but we would need to call a meeting of the committee 48 hours in advance. Ms. Ferreira. Yeah, I think we all need to be panelists and call a meeting because we're a group, even though I know that usually, and I'm thinking this time would be the same, where the co-chairs will present, but I think we need to be there at the United Front and be all panelists. Thank you, Ms. Ferreira. Mr. Vernon Jones. I agree. Ms. Pat. I mean, we shouldn't even have this as an agenda. I mean, it's obvious we should all be in the panelists. So we should move on. Okay, great. So we are all in agreement and Brianna and I will reach back out to Lynn and we will just have to make sure that we post that as a meeting. Ms. Moisten, if you can please take note of that. We can move into the next agenda item, which is the CWG report part B. I'm wondering if Mr. Vernon Jones might be able to pull up the draft for our report. I just have a quick question. What time is the town council meetings usually? I just forgot, just so I can put it on my calendar. Yep, so it will be at 6.30. 6.30. Ms. Pat. So while Mr. Ross is pulling the work together, I just want to commend the subcommittee for working on this, but I have some substantial feedback to give for the first couple of paragraphs. Just seems to me like the audience is the police chief and the town manager. So I would like that really reward or maybe move it down towards the end of the document. Also, I mean, this is non-stop starter for me. We have to have, we have to recommend traffic, if we want to call it traffic enforcement or control, but we should not be recommending a task force. It's not going to happen. You know, when we're done now, that's what it is. So I would like us to come into an agreement. We're not no more for that review or revision or a separate task force. So look into traffic enforcement. In fact, that's my motivation. That's why I joined CSWG traffic enforcement. CSWG traffic is one of them. And the folks that I connect with, I can I talk to, they're very curious to see what will come out of our recommendation. So my point is we should make it, we should make it as important as Crest program. So we have to have, we have to push for traffic enforcement or traffic control, whatever we call it. We're not going to table it for another group to explore. I will not, I will not sign off on this document. If that's what we're going to us. Thank you. Mr. Owens. Ms. Pat, are you referring to the cyclist safety thing that I had added? Cause I, that was one of the one. The cyclist. No, no, no, no. It says, I read the recommendation and it stated that there will be a task force. So for that review. Okay. Mr. Ross, if you can like scroll, I will show you. That kind of like disturbed me. I, you know, it's a non-standard for me. I will not agree to that. So in the, in the meantime, I guess we're looking for that. Just to kind of, you know, because obviously I was on the group too with, with Russ and Brianna. And obviously I want to commend Russ for, he was the one that started the whole document. And then Brianna and I, you know, this and stuff. So for me, just to kind of say it and, and I'm glad you got it. Ms. Pat, if that's the way you're interpreting it. For me, in terms of the task force, the way I, I interpreted it, even though I know I was reading it very late at night, was to create like a group of people who are unarmed, the kind of to, to be the ones to, you know, to kind of look at, at traffic violations as opposed to the police, you know, but yeah, maybe if it is, if it is reading like a task force, putting together task force to look at traffic. No, I'm not. Yeah, I'm also not. Well, Ms. Pat. So I read somewhere where it says in, it needs further review or something like that. What I'm thinking of in terms of traffic enforcement division, that is to, to be under the Crest program. I do not want the police officers to be involved with any type of traffic stop that is nonviolent. Yeah. So, um, yeah, because it said over here, if you go to page a lot, I know, I guess we don't have page numbers. Oops. We need the page numbers. Right here. He has it. Right there. Yeah. It says traffic recommendation requiring further development. What else are we developing? So I guess what I want, I want to know what else are we developing? I do not want the police continue with traffic stop. We need to recommend in this to stop ASAP. So you're saying just in terms of taking that out of traffic recommendations, because, you know, we are, you know, putting their create an anonymous police department, or if we want to put it like, you know, the department that goes, well, I think it did say that that would go under like the Crest program and stuff like that. But I think, I think it's basically saying, you know, these are the recommendations. I'm okay with the recommendation, but it says traffic recommendation requiring further development. Yeah. So we can ask, because, you know, we can take that out. We just take out requiring further development. What I'm trying to say is that we really need to amplify the importance of traffic stop. If you're wanting for traffic stop, I will not join CSWG. So it's very, very important just like Crest program. The police should not be involved in stopping residents period for any type of reason. They should not be doing that. Unless for dangerous situation or, you know, somebody is intoxicated or something like that, but they should not be doing it anymore. That's what I would like to see come out of CSWG. Thank you. Mr. Vernon Jones. Well, the reason I put it together this way is that there is no, as far as we can find out, there is no municipality in the entire United States that has taken all traffic control away from the police. And the one lawyer I consulted said it was not clear whether or not it is legal to give traffic stop authority to non-police. I mean, they're like Oakland, California voted this, but they haven't been able to implement it because it's against the law in California. And the person that I consulted as an attorney in North Hampton, who was part of making a similar recommendation in North Hampton. And he said it would take extensive legal research to find out whether it's legal or not in Massachusetts. I'm fine with taking out the task force and making this a recommendation, but we don't really have much of a blueprint of what this would look like. Thank you, Mr. Vernon Jones. Ms. Ferrara and then Ms. Pat. And I think Brianna also had her hand up too. Yeah, I mean, for me, I think, you know, again, we need to be cutting edge in terms of this. So, I mean, I don't know, you know, obviously, you know, on this group because of, you know, what could I do for UMass? It's not like I can do any legal work for you all in that way. But the only thing that I can say is that, you know, this is extremely important. Even though there might not be a blueprint out there, I think we need to be, you know, kind of do the leadership in regards to it. And, you know, and kind of stated that these are the things that, that we need to have happen. And I think a lot of, a lot of the times while we haven't seen anything out there in terms of the research that, you know, all the readings that we've been doing over these last couple of months and regards to it is because municipalities are very afraid of taking that step, right? Because they don't want to, they want to still rely on that crutch of the police, which as we know, are the ones that are, you know, a lot of times doing that, the racial profiling, which then stops the driver. And then that leads to the further harassment and everything else that happens after that, you know? So for me, you know, I'm with Ms. Pat in terms of us being very strong and, you know, making a statement in terms of clear recommendations. Thank you, Ms. Vera. Ms. Pat and then Ms. Owen. So a couple of things. Why don't we address the elephant in the room? This is about resource allocation. Obviously the police chief will like to, you know, keep his personnel. I get that. But that's not what this is all about. This is about the lives of BIPOC folks and other people who are marginalized. That's what it's all about. And they said the same thing with Crest Program. Last year when different municipalities are organizing regarding alternative community safety, people are saying it's illegal. It's not legal. You can't do it. It's not legal. And now it's spreading across the nation. So people will come up with all kinds of excuses what is legal and what is not legal. I could care less. We need to, you know, come up with very strong recommendation and then let the town council and the town manager work it out. But this is a living document that will last for generation. And I don't want to be part of a project that I'm not proud of. I don't care whether it's legal or not. But we need to make a strong recommendation. I mean, we have some cities and some communities reaching out to us about the work we're doing, CSWG. Like Ms. Freya said, you know, we have to be on the cutting edge. Because other people are not doing it doesn't mean that we should not, you know, try something new. Thank you. Thank you, Ms. Pat. Ms. Owen. I'm wondering if the group would feel more comfortable with recommending that we move traffic control to a department in Crest once Crest is developed and fully funded. That was, that was the recommendation when you and I walked on it. Yeah, that's what we said. Yeah. Thank you, Ms. Owen. Ms. Farera. Yeah, I mean, I think that that would, that would make sense because since we're already creating a, you know, the Crest program, it would make sense to kind of put it, weave it into that program. But I think, you know, obviously in terms of, you know, when I was looking at this, my thing and, you know, again, Ms. Pat, thank you for catching, I didn't catch the requiring for the development, but my thing was that since it was there, right, non-police, you know, department to enforce all traffic laws, obviously that's what I'm down with too, you know. So, but yeah, I think it would make sense to kind of put it on the Crest umbrella. Thank you, Ms. Farera. Mr. Vernon Jones. To be clear, we're not suggesting that Crest community responders deal with traffic. No. No. An additional branch be created. Yes. Yes. Should we just put this in the. This could be done by creating an additional. Branch within the Crest program. It would be under Crest program that the document that I worked with Brianna, you know, I'm happy to email it to you, that you all. That was a document on traffic control. Yeah. Yeah. So if we can just, you know, add to that one or this one, it doesn't really matter there. Yeah. I will email it to you. Okay. So just do it. If we take care of the further development and get rid of the task force and just say we recommend it. Move pride. Create an arms. Well, it says. So the A should be that. The traffic enforcement division, you know, should be under Crest Crest department or something like that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. In reading this, the headline here. It doesn't say. What. Department would this program be under. When I read a. Miss. With the addition, I would just add that. But not as a, it wouldn't be the Crest. I'm assuming that you're thinking of having a whole department underneath Crest and addition. Is that what you're saying? Or if not, can you clarify? Because the Crest responders doing traffic control. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. That's not my, that's not, that's not what I'm thinking. Under Crest department. Crest is a department. Just like you have APD department. They have traffic. They have all kinds of divisions. That's right. Program that will be a branch of Crest program. That is traffic. I like enforcement rather than control traffic enforcement. Yes. I'm just. I'm just saying that that should be expressed where it says this can somewhere in there a little bit more, because the way that it reads this can be part of the Crest program. It doesn't define that necessarily. Does that make sense? Set it again. I was just saying to define more that it's its own, it's an umbrella underneath the Crest program. It's another part of it's a. Sub department of Crest. Exactly. Right. That's all. Yeah. Sub. Program. I like to use the word program in, because the department is bigger. You know, the crisis department. And. One of the programs. Within Crest is. Traffic enforcement. Thank you, Ms. Pat. Ms. Farera. And I would just say, you know, I know we're trying to do this right now. But I don't know if we're going to be able to get the language just right. Right. Why would you say to kind of like, if, if, if Ms. Pat and, and I know Ms. Pat and Brianna had already the vision or maybe they had it. Maybe if you all could work on that paragraph. Yeah. We'll do that. Yes. Yeah. And just. Cause I know Russ is going to, is the keeper, but just send it to Russ and then he can incorporate that as opposed to spending the time. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you, Ms. Farera. Ms. Owen. That was my thoughts too, because I think too, one of the things I read in the report from New York was although they have self. Surveiling streets. One of the things that's being talked about right now is moving traffic control to the department of transportation. So maybe we could use that as. A footnote. To other towns and cities that are moving traffic control to different departments. Yeah. Where is that, Brianna? I believe it's in the department of transportation. Where is that, Brianna? I believe it's in the New York city. Article that I read, I'm looking through my email right now. Yeah, I do believe that I had seen some of that. Yeah. Other areas, what, what, what, what moving traffic. I was pleased into. You know, a different agency or department. I've thought about that, but I'm not sure if. If traffic. Enforcement is big enough to become a department. I think transportation department will be great. The question is, is it big enough to become a department? Maybe the town manager can answer that for us. I don't know. No, but I think, I mean, if I think putting it on the crest, like as a program or what have you, I think would be a good way to start, you know, you know, based on need and volume, then it could become a department or whatever in the future. You know, it would be great if, if the, if the town manager will agree to transportation department, it would be really good. That's the best. Why don't we recommend it? Okay. Let's do that. Oh, Russ, I just found the article. I'll send it to you now. I think that's clear. So let's do that. Yeah. I agree. When you all say transportation, you know, you're, you're adding like buses. You're going to be adding this and that transportation is a very big umbrella. It's not okay. So let's do that. Let's do that. That's what you all want. I don't know. That's biting a lot. So, so I'm just saying like how buses travel, how this travel, transportation is a huge department. It just doesn't deal with, with, with traffic. You mean public works in a, in a mess. We have public works. That's a department that include transportation. Yeah, that's what I'm like. Okay. Okay. Okay. So, but Miss. I'm confused. I'm just kind of like, I don't want us to bite off more than we can. So the buses are, are. Through the transportation service at UMass. So all the PVTA buses that run in Amherst are service of UMass. We don't, we have a transportation advisory commission. And, but we don't have a department for it and the transportation advisory commission falls under the DPW public works department. Yeah. And what does that include though? It's more about like roads and, and bike lanes and travel and roundabouts, which we all love and so forth. We don't have buses. The town doesn't have buses. That's fine, but I'm saying it includes a lot more though. Yeah. Yeah. So is that so we're recommending. Like trucks. Who manages the trucks? Well, the trucks are, they're just trucks. So DPW manages the trucks for the department of public works. Okay. Okay. So let's call it traffic. Enforcement department is so tiny though. It's a tiny department, but I also suggest that parking enforcement would be there too as well. Yes. Yes. If you're going to, if you're going to do that. Yes. Let's call it traffic enforcement department is so tiny, but it is what it is. So. Oh, I apologize. I just have a quick question. Miss. We already have people who are responsible for. Parking enforcement. So. Are you, I, are you recommending that they be merged? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, for me, again, I'm, I'm, you know, because I know we're just drafting stuff right now. I really want to see something. I don't know if I'm comfortable right now just being like, okay, you know, boom, we're going to call it this and, and I want to see what's going to be under it. What it's going to be. Because remember, we're going to get a lot of, of, of, of resistance to this. So we have to be very crystal clear and we have to be within parameters. Because remember when we, when we talked about crest, right? We were envisioning this, this program that was going to be, you know, ready to go at full, full staff, full, full status. And it was a whole lot of, you know, you know, resistance and coming back to us and chipping away. Right. So that's why for me, you know, just being like, Oh yeah, we're going to have this huge department and stuff like that. I'm, I don't know if that's the wisest way to go with this. I think because traffic is a very volatile. You know, area. And if we're going to be leaders, we want to be crystal clear in terms of what we want as opposed to being like, let's go big. And then, you know, and then let, let them, you know, go at it. I don't know. I really want to see what you all talking about with this, because right now I'm not clear. Thank you, Ms. for Mr. Vernon Jones. Yeah. I agree with Debra. I think we need some more detail here. And Debra, in your, you know, notes, you sent me originally on the draft. There were any number of things that might include, but my question is who's going to find that. And write it up. Yeah, I thought, yeah, but I thought we had talked about like Brianna and Ms. Pat. Kind of looking at that and find that paragraph. Could you, could you all do that? Brianna said you might have some stuff already. Yeah, we did. We did already. And we submitted it to the group. And then you guys were supposed to give us feedback. We're happy for that. That's fine. Okay. Well, Brianna, you have Debra's list of suggestions about what should be included there. Can you and Ms. Pat look at that? Absolutely. And I, I located the article I was talking about in regards to New York City's town council and their mayor looking at moving traffic control to a different department. Great. All right. Maybe that's enough on this. Yeah. For now. Yeah. Ms. Pat, I did not understand your comment about the introduction. So when I was reading it, you know, yeah, we have a great APD. They, you know, they have certification. That's not what I want to read in the beginning. I want us to start with our recommend, you know, some sort of background, but then go into our recommendation. I want the town council to listen like, you know, we want traffic enforcement program. We want oversight board, boom, boom, boom, boom. Like that. And then at the end, we can just, you know, say one or two things about APD. For example, they, they, um, the sanctuary that was included in the ad in the, in the document, I think it should be taken out. For example, did we get permission from the person that, you know, the town at the church had, you know, how about, you know, just to inject somebody's name like that. But that may, I don't know if did we get permission from that person. To include, to include his story. Yeah. I did not ask Lucio about this report in particular, but Lucio and I have talked about the fact that he would like his story to be public. And wanted people as widely as possible to know that he, that he appreciated having sanctuary in the church. The reason that paragraph was in the introduction is that what was wrecked when I talked to people about writing reports, but they said, if you're going to look at an agency, you want to start with what's it doing well that you want it to keep doing. And then what are the problems that need to be addressed. So that's, that's part of what, you know, why that's at the beginning. The other is that we've been told that both, you know, I mean, we've been told that both of them have a cooperative relationship with the police. And seven Jen said, resident oversight board won't work unless you have a cooperative relationship with the police. And to some extent, I think our crests. Responders are safer out on the streets. If they have a cooperative relationship with the police. And. I don't want to soft pedal any of our recommendations. I don't want to open the doors to a more collaborative relationship with the police. As long as we're not compromising our recommendations. We should do for the, because it increases the chance that our recommendations will be successful. Thank you, Mr. Vernon Jones. Ms. Yeah. I mean, for me, I think some of it can be there because I do agree. You know, it's, it's a good thing to kind of like. Talk about some of the positives and things like that. However, I did send Mr. Vernon Jones. A lot of edits that were included of mine, which, which. You know, I definitely didn't like, you know, kind of including like the CSWG is not reporting that we found intentional racism in APD. I mean, no, you know, I think that is soft peddling. I think that that's basically catering. To them. And I don't think it should be there. And where we have, you know, to talk more about the historical racism that's been part of the police generally and stuff like that. We need to include that. So we can be fair, but fair both ways. We can't just, you know, and then there's that part about this may all be the result of unconscious bias. So what? No, I don't any of that in there. You know what I'm saying? Because, you know, I don't know that, you know what I'm saying? And I don't want to give them any, you know, I don't want to give them any, you know, some of that, you know what I'm saying? And I don't want to give them any, any breaks in terms of those things, you know? So that's why for me, I was just like, some things need to be cut out of here. I mean, I get what you were trying to do with the Vernon Jones in terms of kind of like, yeah, you know, but some of that is get is going beyond being fair to them because I don't know. I don't know about that. So I can't make that statement. And I don't want to make that statement as a CSWG member because I don't agree with it whatsoever. You know, we didn't find intentional racism and all of those things. You know, why don't you and I work on that part together, Deborah? And we'll see if we can come up with something we can agree with and come back with it. Can I also send it to you guys too? Because I made my own edits, but didn't have enough time to send it to, to the subcommittee. Yeah. Deborah basically said what I was about to say. There are some language there that really made me very uncomfortable that, you know, doesn't reflect. You know, what I would like great on, for example, yeah, please, please send us that. Okay. And then. Sorry. And then I know there was some areas I'm actually trying to go to it. Where I think we need to discuss further. I know, you know, Mr. Barry Jones had included it in here. You know, like towards the bottom, like number seven. Well, I would, I wanted to make some changes in regards to it. And then there was, oh, yeah. Number eight, there was some areas there that it's just kind of like, I don't know if we've discussed it. So, you know, we should probably talk. And I wanted to kind of. Change some of the things. Like seven, the other eliminate over surveillance and over policing of BIPOC neighborhoods. We recommend that a resident oversight board be tasked with investigating and addressing the fall, falling issues with the APD use of force policy. So I was, I just wanted that kind of put different places. If we're talking about resident board, why are we talking about other there? Why wouldn't we put that in the resident board section? So some things need to kind of be switched. And some things we need to discuss further. Yeah, I just didn't have time to do that, but I agree that seven B could be moved to the resident oversight board. Yeah. And then, and then seven a, I was saying it could be under the healing visioning section. If you wanted to include it, you know, eliminate over surveillance and over policing of BIPOC neighborhoods. I think that would be a good place to kind of put that. Yeah. Now I don't agree. I think the community healing is about a community positive community process altogether. This is about police policy. I mean, we could make another, we could make it a, if it's the only one here, we could make it another. Make it number seven. Well, but I think we need to talk about that then because I mean, what, what do we mean by that? I guess I don't even understand what it means. This is a high priority recommendation for implementation by APD. We recommend that the APD take the lead on how best to implement this and do so promptly. They don't know how best to implement this. You see what I'm saying? That's why I feel like the healing and that's why my thoughts was around the healing. Because remember the healing and visioning is to heal. And then for the community, you know, to be the lead to create what the anti racist kind of, but you know, work needs to happen within the police department. Police department doesn't, they don't know how to do that at all. So through the visioning and healing process, that's how you're going to create this anti racist kind of path forward and what that path is going to look like. Right. So for me anyway, when I'm talking about healing, visioning is not just healing. It's healing. And how do you move forward to make sure that the police department is anti racist. It is not white supremacist anymore. It's not, you know, in terms of white privilege and it's not those types of things. So for me, that's why I was very confused about that. Because they have no, they don't know how to do that. Thank you, Ms. Mr. Vernon Jones. Yeah, I completely agree about creating an anti racist place is part of the healing and visioning. I think there are policies currently in place in the APD that send police to black neighborhoods more often. And I don't want to wait for the healing and visioning for that to change. I want that to change immediately. I think there are policy changes they can make right away. They would have fewer police cars in, in BIPOC neighborhoods. Thank you, Mr. Vernon Jones, Ms. Ferrara. So I guess for me, Russ, I mean, I agree with you with that, but I guess for me, then we'd need to tell them that we need to tell them what the policy changes because I I'm sorry. I don't trust them to make those changes. So if we're going to make, if we're going to make a recommendation like that, then we need to identify the policies that they're going to need to change right away. And, you know, and make that part of our recommendation. Then I agree. Then I'm good with that, but we need to identify that. I cannot rely on them to come up with, with what to do. Why don't we see next time. I'm. You know, Alicia and I meet with the chief. Why don't we see if we can. Find out a little more about. See if we can identify. I mean, it may be partly related to sector policing. It may be partly related to what they think they're calling community policing, but it needs to change. Yeah. We can't, if we can't get to the policy part of it, then I'm totally in agreement with those in the vision part, but if we can get a policy, we can identify policy changes, but I think we should recommend them. Is that, is that an okay way to go forward? Thank you, Mr. Vernon Jones. Miss Pat. You know, when I, you know, and I've read this document a couple of times, I felt similarly like Deborah. I feel that the healing thing that Dr. Barbara will be doing for us will kind of touch on. The hot that Bible community and managing marginalized folks experience with APD. So when I read this, I was thinking, oh, it should have been under the healing. Area section. That's the way I, I say it, but the seven A. Okay. Not the police and the APD, they won't do it. If we leave it up to them, they will not do it. I don't trust them. It's issue of trust. I don't trust APD. I'm sorry. Thank you, Miss Pat. Miss Owen. And they can still report to oversight board. You know, they can still do that. But I think part of the healing in this town, you know, has to do with APD to stop over policing my community. I'm also thinking maybe we can pull from our report with seven Jen on the sector based policing. And I don't know if the group would want to have a conversation about that. One of my concerns with sector based policing is just that. Police are, I don't, I don't know for me, I see, I see an officer at least once a day. I don't, I don't feel comfortable with that necessarily. And I kind of feel like maybe the police should wait until crime to be called because the report that seven Jen gave us says that they are really initiating the crime. But they're initiating things. So if they just responded instead of posted up and waited, like there's fires and Amherst, but the fire trucks are not in my backyard. For instance. And I don't mean to say that in a rude way. But just thinking out loud, or even if we could reduce the amount of police presence and people in the community. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. At certain areas patrolling. Cause I know in my neighborhood, there's a very specific spot that I see that I see police officers almost every day. And I live in an apartment complex. Thank you, miss. Ms. So yeah. So the other, the other area is, if you can scroll down. Ms. Moisten is to go down to like eight. Eight. Eight. So yeah. So, so we have that top paragraph, a ground reduced the size of the APD, but at the bottom paragraph, we're not looking to have current APD officers lose their jobs. We do believe that a combination of the crest program ending low level and all of that. I think we need to reword that because, you know, you know, I don't know how things are going to happen, but the reduction in size needs to happen. Right. So maybe we leave that. Sentence out. Because I don't know, you know, how it's going to transpire, but how, how can we guarantee that APD officers are not going to lose their jobs? You know what I'm saying? My thing is that if, if, if crest is going to be doing certain work and then the traffic control program under crest is going to be doing certain work. There's going to be eventually not a need for police to be doing certain things. So I don't want to guarantee things that might not come to pass. You know, I think we want to say that, yes, it's going to happen through retirements initially and not filling vacancies. And we want to be clear with that because we know, we just saw what happened. Right. When we made our first recommendations and we said. Reduction in size. That did not happen. I mean, I mean, first Paul Bachmann put in for an increase to hiring police and then they've been filling vacancies, which went contrary to our recommendation. So I think we need to be very strong in terms of our communication in terms of what needs to happen. Anyway, that's my thought. I mean, folks could differ, but I don't know about saying we're not looking to have current APD officers lose their jobs because I think it's, it's kind of being a little bit. Not sure of what we're recommending and what we're saying. Thank you. Ms. Pat. Actually, I really don't mind if that sentence is there or not. I don't have any strong feelings around there. I think all over several months, what we'll have said is that for the town manager, the town council, for them not to increase the number of officers, but they continue to do that when people retire, do not replace. That's what we've always said. So this might be good for us to live it. But if people feel strongly to, to, to remove that sentence, that's fine too. But I don't care either way. I mean, this one day, we're not looking to have current APD officers lose their jobs. Either way is fine. I didn't. Yeah. I hear what you're saying. Ms. Flora and I, Mr. Ross, I support both of them. I can say positive and negatives in it. So. Obviously. If the town manager is following our recommendation, they shouldn't have increased, you know, higher mall police officers. But he did anyway. Yes. Mr. Well, in response to what. Ms. Pat just said, I tried bolding. We recommend the town stop going break and season the APD. We've had two different opinions expressed about the first sentence in the next paragraph. And we can be helpful to hear from other people. Okay. I see what you did. I like that. Then you can delete the second one. Okay. Yeah. I like the, the one that you bolded better. I like that one. Thank you. Mr. Yeah. I guess since we're reaffirming of the previous recommendations. And we did include that. So I guess something. I mean, obviously it's nitpicky or whatever. Like we continue to recommend that a town stop filling big. But again, it's just kind of like we've said this before. And I know it's, it's what we're reaffirming, but it's kind of like, you know, that this is. In this report, we're just affirming. We're really making it clear that this needs to, needs to stop the filling of vacancies. Yes. And we say at no new hires. Did we say no new hires too? Yes, we did. Okay. No, but I'm seeing in, in, in our. In our right now. I mean, stop filling vacancies is the same thing as no new hires. No. Okay. It's in there. Yeah. It's just that obviously I'm trying to do it right now. So if it's in there, that's great. Okay. Thank you, Ross. You did a great job. Jennifer has your hand. Yeah, I just, I want to say that I don't know that. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I just stopped filling vacancies and. Don't have new hires or the same things. Yeah. Well, because if they are allocated money to do it, that has nothing to do with vacancies. Those are new. You know what I mean? Yeah. That's sure. Great. Yeah. And I think that's what I was thinking. Thank you, Jennifer. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I think we decide about the first sentence in the next paragraph. I really don't care. It doesn't matter to me. What about other folks? What do you all think? I see it from both sides, but I think I'm more comfortable with taking it out given that the beginning of the report is more. Giving. I mean, I feel like the report is balanced and how we're talking about, um, I guess good things that the police department does like the tone that we're setting forth. So I'm comfortable with getting rid of that. Um, but I think it's just a little bit misleading. Um, to read what I do understand that. What point you're trying to make, but I think we could reword it. Because I think after saying. Don't, don't fill vacancies, but don't fire anybody, but reduce the police department size. Is a little bit misleading and confusing. I feel like we could say it in a different way. If we wanted to have something of that effect in that paragraph. I mean, if maybe we'll come up with something else, but for now, let's take it out. There's almost seven. I don't want us to lose. Mr. Ross at seven 30. Yes. So, um, We have Brianna and miss Pat, who will relook at the paragraph for our recommendation on traffic. Um, enforcement. And they will send that to. Russ, Mr. Vernon Jones and Deborah and Mr. Vernon Jones are going to relook at. The, the, the, the introduction. Are the, are there any other parts of it? Okay. Are there any other pieces to the report that you all would like to go over, talk about, um, At this time. I thought the oversight document is where we're in. I like it. Thank you. Thank you, miss Pat. Okay. Um, so if it's all right with everybody, I will move to the next agenda item. Uh, which is Chris implementation follow-up. So, um, I would like to just report that last week, Miss Owen, Mr. Vernon Jones, Miss moist and the police chief and myself. Um, got together and we finalized the director of cross position and the cross project managed manager, um, position descriptions. We had some revisions in language. Um, can we pull those up? Yeah. Any questions? Miss moiston. See them? Are you looking at my desktop? Um, I can see them. Thank you. Um, and so we did these did go through the municipal rating system. And we did also suggest some salary adjustments. I'm not sure what the next steps are. Miss moist. If you have any. So there were very few revisions done to, and it's harder to see here because I had to turn it into a but there were a few additional changes to the director position. But the salary for level seven is agreed upon, which I can tell you guys what that is. If everybody can look at this and get back to me, it's like we can post the director tomorrow if everybody is okay with it. The director position can be posted. Has everyone gotten a chance to review these documents, Ms. Ferrera and then Ms. Pat? Yeah, that's what I was going to say. No, I mean, I need, you know, like a little bit of time to kind of review it and see if I have any changes. Thank you, Ms. Ferrera, Ms. Pat. I actually read it. I read it twice, even though we got it very late. For the job description and everything, I don't know what level seven is. It better not be less than 90K. Again, if it's less than that one, I have strong words to use because this is something that will benefit BIPOC and marginalized people. And I mean, departmental head in this town are making more than 100K. So I don't know what level seven is. With this amount of job description, the salary better be very attractive so that the town can attract robust BIPOC candidates who will be interested and can afford to live in this town to apply for the position. Thank you. Thank you, Ms. Pat. So how much is level seven again? So actually it's the, it's, I believe it's an, yep. So a level under the level seven, the following position, this is how they rate them by the, the other current positions. It starts at 74, 895 and it ends at 10652. So it's negotiable. They can follow anywhere in between that 11 step wage salary scale. And the positions that follow that are assessor, assistant superintendent to public works operations, building commissioner, the comptroller, the health director, the recreational director, the planning director and the treasure collector and the assistant IT director. Thank you. I would like, you know, to see this position well paid in order to attract BIPOC candidates. I can't say that enough. So, if you, if the town succeed in attracting applicants to apply the salary package better be comparable to white administrators in this town who heard departments, public works, APD, and so on and so forth. But I'd be comparable. So I'm, I'm watching, I'm watching. Thank you, Ms. Pat, Ms. Ferrara. Yeah, especially if the, if it's going to be hopefully expanding right to have a lot more people under the under this program and department, especially if we're recommending kind of traffic to be under there we need to think about that. I don't have that consideration too. But I'm with Ms. Pat, I mean, I always, you know, obviously, you know, having done the work that I did. You know, as a diversity officer and director vehicle opportunity. That was always a big thing right attracting people, especially diverse people from like East Eastern part of Massachusetts to the Western part of Massachusetts let's say, or what have you which, you know, a lot of times has a lot more diversity can be very difficult if the the community is not competitive. You know, so that's, you know, that's going to be a big draw out here. And of course, the other part and this might be for you miss moisten and then I don't know Mr. Balkan, one's going to join us at any point because that would be a question for him. Like what's going to be the outreach for this is going to that's going to be critical, the recruitment and outreach to really outreach to a lot of diverse, you know, communities, populations, schools for recruitment, things like that is not it can't be just a traditional post and we can see type of situation and needs to go to a lot of different agencies in all different areas where diverse candidates would apply, you know, even out of state to, you know, if we're going to have candidates that, you know, diverse candidates that in our pool, right, they have the experience that, you know, are willing to come out here because we need to get top notch folks and hopefully a healthy diverse pool. So what is the, what's the outreach recruitment plan. We will post what we post on our website we post on jobs in the valley, we have an account with diversity.com but that doesn't usually get us a lot of pull but it might for this actual position. We post on indeed. We post on LinkedIn. And then there's a, I have an email bank of folks that I email who are BIPOC community members when we have positions that I email out the positions out to, and we email out of the school. So if there are additional places where you know that we can post then that would be more than great. Thank you miss my son. And then Miss Freira. If I may. In addition to Debra's question. I also want, and I've said it in our previous meetings, another issue that is not well discussed is the fact that when we do refer people to apply. It's not because they're not qualified. It's because they see them as real agent of change people coming into the system to reform the system. And so they don't want to rock the boat. They don't, they like the status quo. So to say that we're not getting the diverse candidates or people of color they are applying, but they're not getting hired, because I miss is not ready for real change. Let's face it, that a lot of highly qualified and they want to stay, they want to work in our mess, but they're not getting hired. That's the truth. I know my facts. I get information. Thank you miss Pat. Mr Vernon Jones. Has there been any discussion, Jennifer about who's going to be on the hiring committee and whether or not the hiring committee gets to see all the applications. So we route all the applications to the hiring committee. The hiring committee has not been defined as far as I know. That usually comes. You know, we'll post for whatever amount of time usually most of our jobs stay open until filled. And so Somewhere in there, the, there will be a hiring committee created. Do you guys have suggestions who should sit on the hiring committee. So I'm not answering the question about the hiring committee because obviously just quickly hiring committee just needs to be a diverse group of people, you know what I'm saying and there's a lot of In the community that could that could that we could reach out to that because that could sit on that committee so that that's going to be key, but I'm talking more about still the recruitment piece of it. I know you have a list serve of people but you know, I don't know if we have emails of folks that have been engaging with us throughout this whole process. You know, folks from defund, you know, four and three defund defund four and three or what have you. I mean, we need to blast this to all sorts of folks, you know, it can be the traditional amount of folks it has to be to BIPOC and all folks that are also, you know, you know, embedded in this process from the beginning. We need to kind of outreach to all these folks to get it so I think once this job description is finalized, obviously, you know, make sure we have a copy. So I said, you know, create a very robust email list serve. You know, also, calling calling out to people if there's people that we really think might have the experience is really a call to say hey would you consider applying. You know, obviously, as we know, calling someone doesn't mean they get in the job is just calling them recruiting them to to apply for the position. And I've been thinking about how we could do that on LinkedIn as well. Just because I know that you can put in something as similar as community responders or key words like that and have individuals will work in that field come up. And then, you know, kind of look at what is on their LinkedIn page to try to connect with them as well. Exactly. Yep. So, um, Oh, can I raise my hand. Sorry. Go ahead and miss that. Another, another effect is, um, people who are highly qualified and didn't get the job will tell other people locally say good luck you're going to town or farmers. If you're quiet, you get the job, but if you're there to make change, you're not going done even bother. So my point is people have already some people have already given up. You know, they're looking, I mean, we're losing, we're losing talent. I understand, I understand that, but I'm not going to just, I don't think that we should just throw in the towel and assume that nobody's going to take the position, right? Like we have to make a conscious effort to reach out to people above and beyond the people are just here in the Amherst Pioneer Valley. Right. Like, and that is what I was trying to express the other day, like it's some of some of the parts that's hard in recruiting here for the town of Amherst is we don't offer things like travel reimbursement. We don't offer things like moving expenses. We don't offer things like, you know, our property taxes are super high. Our rents are super high. So those things, and I get that if someone's coming from Boston, it might be equivalent, but when you live in Boston, you have Boston stuff, right? And here we don't have that same stuff. So we have to go above and beyond and outside of our little Pioneer Valley, I think, don't you don't agree with that. I'm not saying that those people won't be told, but I mean, at the same time as Pat, you're saying that people won't come and apply. And but we have to get people. Because of past experiences, because of past experiences, people feel discouraged. I understand that, but we're not saying that's what I'm saying. And I'm telling people keep trying. And they're telling me how many times will I try? I have a reputation. They will not hire me because they don't want anybody that will rock the boat. And so Miss Pat, maybe we should just talk outside of this too, because I, you know, I see all the applications and stuff. So I would like to have this conversation, but now it's not the time and we shouldn't do that here right now. Yeah, you're muted, Alicia. I think she's trying to call on Miss Freira. Oh, yeah. No, I think, I think, and I hear you, Miss Pat, I mean, obviously, you know, definitely, you know, there's been those, you know, that sharing right that there's that that blockade that wall in terms of if you're going to be, as you said, a broker or a change agent, then, you know, then you won't get hired. So I think a way to kind of combat that is in terms of who's going to be on the hiring committee, you know, you know, whoever they put in there is going to have a lot of say and And that's where I feel we need to have experienced BIPOC people be the majority of the hiring committee so that they actually have the weight and the ability to be able to hire people that are going to go beyond the status quo and actually are going to do the work that we need to be done. So I don't know how can we kind of be involved or engaged and who gets to be on the hiring committee. That would be my question. But if Tom manager makes the final decision hiring committee will will will will give recommendation as who they think is strong candidates that ultimately is a time manager that you know, you know, makes the higher That's the problem right there. I know but like so for the last for the emmerced for the African heritage. He took all of the recommendations in except, you know, there was a conflict with one, but I mean he, he, I don't know. I think that I think that we're, I know, but I think that at the same time, like, there have been a lot of problems here in the town of Amherst, and I think that there is an attempt to at least try to see outside of the box of what we've been usually doing. I don't, I don't know the best way to say that. And again I just think that we should talk offline. Absolutely. Thank you. Miss Ellen. One of the things, well I want to thank you miss Padmas for your feedback on just hiring and recruitment. I think that your feedback is critical and I'm a little bit worried about the new timeline that the press implementation team has put together, given that the community responders will not be hired until December but the CSWG will be disbanded. I think that everybody's feedback here is critical and I also think that during these meetings, we, we provide community transparency because we're talking about what's happening at these meetings. And it's something I'm a little bit worried about and I would like to find a solution to so we can continue to engage in these types of conversations these types of concerns, and be more transparent with the community as to what is going on. Thank you Miss Ellen. Miss Ferrara. Yeah, thank you, Brianna for bringing that up because you know that was one of the things that I think we wanted to talk to Mr. Bachman about right so what's going on with the standing committee that's going to be put into place and and whether he's, you know, already thought about that because he's been knowing that that's what's going to happen. So that's going to be critical in terms of moving this this work forward. But in terms of the hiring committee I hear you miss Pat in terms of Mr. Bachman being the one to make the final decision on that. However, I mean this has been something that has had a lot of obviously, you know, a microscope in it and a focus on it so if there was a, if the hiring committee's comprised of, you know, experience strong BIPOC people, and then miss Bachman doesn't take the recommendations that they make I think that that will be a problem. You know, there will be a big problem, you know, in regards to it. So I think there would be some safeguard there because everyone is looking at this. This is going to be a critical, critical position. If you have someone that is experienced and strong at this position. That could be it for crest right there. You know, so this is going to be on the microscope. I know I'm going to be following this very closely. Thank you, Mr. Vernon Jones. I think it's really important when this position is posted that we not just post the job description, but that we spend the extra money or whatever it takes to advertise this as a unique special cutting edge opportunity to do something new. Because we are proposing something that's different and I think I think we can can sell it that way if we'll do whatever it takes to sell it. So I don't think it's enough to talk about a diverse hiring committee. I think I like what Miss Pat was saying about we need, we need people who are willing to, to be change agents who are willing to upset things. And we need some of those folks on the hiring committee as well. Thank you, Mr. Brandon Jones. Miss Ellen. Miss moison I was just wondering by chance if there were any updates on the director of the EI. I wasn't sure where that stood. Yep, that just had some other changes to made to it. And they're, we're working on it I believe on Monday we are working on it again so the town manager and the HR director, myself and the another HR manager all sat together and went through to measured all of the HR needs and it fit within the town of what it scope. I don't know how to exactly explain it, but it was reviewed and there were very minimal changes made to it, but that will be sent to you guys before we send it out as well. Do we know what the salary scale is for that position. I believe it's either a seven or an eight. What is eight. What is the range for eight. It's from 82 395 to 110 718. And so, we are hoping to be able to have it finalized by Friday so that we can get it posted as soon as possible. Which Friday this week. No, not tomorrow Friday, next Friday next Friday. Okay, that way you guys get to see it. I actually like this job description, and I can speak for my fellow members that I read it I think it's good. It's strong. Thank you miss miss for air. Yeah, I yeah I mean I guess like if we can have until tomorrow, at least though, you know, I was, oh for the day, and the day tomorrow yeah to review this. Yeah, I mean we can post it for Monday or Tuesday we do have to as Mr Vernon Jones said we do have to create a lead in for it there's no lead in it and we don't we don't just post the job description itself. So, and, and we need a good lead in not just the typical hey the town of Amherst is looking for a qualified individual, we need something stronger than that. And so I think we just, you know we have to create that lead in. If you guys have any ideas we're welcome. Most of these most of this stuff here is is your, I mean all of it really is your vision. We just changed the words to be more HR e ish, if that makes sense. I don't know. And so. Yeah, any suggestions for the lead in please. And one other thing that I wanted to say is that, you know, everything that I've said also holds true for the director of first the equity inclusion, you know in terms of the outreach the hiring committee, you know, all of that, you know, recruitment plan. All of it has to be, you know, just as strong as the one for press. I absolutely agree. And I think that that's the, they have the same equal level of import of urgency and importance and detail. Thank you. So, I think we have said that we will give group members an additional day to look over the job descriptions, make sure that they're in agreement and they don't have any other edits or revisions. So, if you do have any suggestions, please just send them to miss moiston. Yes, miss moiston. Sorry. So I just want to talk about the program assistant position quickly to that's up now. So when I I'm going to. So what I will also do is send you guys the two wage scales that everything falls on so that you guys can have access to everything that you would possibly need to make the decision. So the community, the program assistant and I just want to be clear because I know that the two co chairs and Russ are aware of this. The union does not have a position that is called a program manager as we were trying to name this so the working title of this position will be program manager but the union title will be program assistant. The program assistant at a level G which is where which is where program assistant falls, it starts at 48993 and it ends at 65842. And I, the two co chairs Russ and I sat and did some revisions and put down a proposal of the level H. What they say about the level H is the items in there the electrical inspector the building inspector the assistant sanitary and the wetlands administrator all have particularly skilled licenses that are connected with those positions and that's why they're a level H. I just wanted to let folks know that. Besides that there weren't many changes from the last time that Russ Alicia and Brianna and I met. Thank you miss moisten I just have a quick clarifying question. So, is does that mean that we, it's not going to be bumped up to an H because of that reason. Okay, thank you. Can I say something about that. I think we're being creative in this town, we should try to step away from the traditional certification, because leave the experiences. We should also count. If we're really trying to be more inclusive, I think we should not ignore the so called, you know soft skills as well. I disagree with that. You know, you know plumbing certification and electrical certification because of that similar position will be lower. I don't agree with that. Because you know people bring different, you know, skillset to the job. If the union job type position is setting amount to certain position issue applied to this one as well. That's the way I said, and again it to me it goes back to racial thing because I would like a person of color by book to get this position. And now we're talking about certification and electrical and I don't buy that. No. Well, so I understand where you're coming from with that because I thought we were all in hopes for an age, but that that's a union thing so the program assistant when you look at the se IU wage scale falls under a level G. And so that's where it is the level ages are all the inspectors and they are that because they have the licensees. I can bring it back to the group and see if they I mean basically it comes down to what the union says I we don't really have much. We have to negotiate with the union, either way. That's not up to us, right, as in a full terms like that we have to negotiate that with the union. And I can tell them to push it further to an agency what happens, but that is the that is what, you know, age comes with licenses and I don't know that how the union would respond to that. Otherwise, I can't speak on that. The only other thing I could think of was to make it a non union position. Mr Vernon Jones. Well, that's an interesting idea Jennifer what, what if we were to say, you know, making an age or make it non union. Right from my understanding, right. So, I can bring that back to them. Because in reading the description, it's a lot for this person to do it's a lot, you know, for the amount of money that being proposed. So none union would be a good alternative. So if they were non union. And if I look at what's equivalent on the non union, then that puts it, my guess would be a level two which starts at 49 and ends at 66 or possibly the level three which starts at 53 and ends at 72. But again, I will send the wage scales to you guys, along with the job description so you can have a so you can see for yourself and understand it. Yeah, I think whatever gets the highest salary would be fine with us. Me too. I'm in agreement miss moist and I think that we're asking for an incredible amount of work this is has a lot of responsibility it's a new department. There's going to be a lot of learning and hands on development I think with this role. And I also might, my other concern is just we have community responders who will fall under this and I'm also worried about their compensation being less than this. So I think we should really try to encourage this to get above. Yeah, I did say that because we had that conversation. So I will, I will say it again. Thank you miss my son, Mr. Vernon Jones. Well the other thing that may be relevant here is, I think we might want to revise this supervision exercised. I might take out generally none put in will provide guidance and instruction. I think the, you know, particularly as the Crest program grows that we want somebody to whom the director can delegate some supervisory responsibilities. So I would take out generally none putting will and say maybe, maybe supervisor responsibilities may be delegated by the director. Well that might help because the union positions don't have supervisory. Yeah. They don't, they don't have supervisory. I don't know, I'm sorry, what to call it again only if only if non union get this more money. The union does typically always get you more money. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Vernon Jones. Just to be clear, and are we asking that the DE, not the DEI director, I'm sorry, the director of Crest come in at a level eight. Yes. Yes. We, and the program assistant comes off of SEI you and goes to what are you guys, what are you guys thinking. Level three, level three, which is 53. No, five to 72. The minimum, I would like this, the assistant be a 65 would be the minimum or 60. So that puts them at like, I mean, so again, I'm going to send you the chart because 65 falls in all of these so it's just you have to you can't just say you want them to make a minimum of 65 because we can get them 65 at a level three, but then they're going to cap out in three years when they have their three increases at a step 11, right. And so you have to, that's why I want to send this to you because you have to look at it and really understand that if somebody comes in higher than anywhere in a five, like you don't get longevity here until you've been here for 10 years. So if you come in at a level eight, nine, 10 or 11, we get annual increases at our anniversary date and we get increases at COLA at the end of the at the beginning of the fiscal year, which always moves you up to scale. So then you end up maxing out and then instead of getting you only get 2% because you're only getting the COLA and you haven't been there long enough to get longevity. So I'll send the scales so that you guys can review them and just keep that in mind because it makes a big difference. Thank you, Miss Moisten, that is helpful. And so can we also send our suggestions in regards to the scale to you, Miss Moisten. Okay, great. Miss Freire, are you okay you're awfully quiet. I don't mean to call you out. Just what are your thoughts. I'm in total agreement with it. I mean, I guess my only, my only confusion that I had was towards the end with what you said that obviously like you cap out. So, so that obviously makes it more difficult though to bring in the kind of caliber of experience that we'd want. I thought it would only be kind of like that, that salary range right that and I understand that a lot of times when you're hiring someone, you're trying to bring him in for the company right a lower salary range, but they can keep on growing, you know, beyond a certain cat after that. So I was hoping if we brought him in higher, we could still they could still keep on getting those annual reasons beyond the cat, you know, right. And so I think I was only referring to Miss Pat saying we at minimum come in at 65 and I was just saying you can't really do it that way, because 65, I'm trying to show you the thing and you can't see it. 65 falls in a lot of places here, right 65 fall in a level two, but it's, it's a step 11 at 66. Right and we don't want to do that. So, the closest one to 65, we've got 61 at a level five and then at a level six we have 6807 6. So, 65 comes in at a step three of a level five, but you, you know, I think what you're, you're going for is you either, they need to come in at a five or six because they're already in that 60 range and then they have all that time to keep. Let's do that. Yeah, let's do that. So I'll say five or six. Yeah, let's do that. Thank you, Miss Meister and Mr Vernon Jones. Yeah, I'm sorry to have to go. No, talk to the town manager tonight. I support whatever it takes to get this, our successor committee up and running quickly. And I think a case can be made either way, whether it's a town manager committee or a town council committee town manager it can be created quickly and probably hopefully close to what we want. But it's vulnerable to the town manager dissolving it. A town council committee they will mess with the wording I mean they, they, they, they, they tend to spend a lot of attention, sort of putting their own stamp on exactly the charge that a committee has and all, I don't know that that is necessarily a problem but we should expect that. But as long as we move forward, I don't have a strong feeling about which, which way it goes. And I'm sorry not to be able to stay. And thanks for all the feedback on the report tonight. I think we're, we get closer and closer. Thank you Ross. Thank you so much. So I'm looking at the time and I just want to apologize to everyone that my camera is off my eyes are so dry and my glasses broke. So I'm just uncomfortably close to my screen and ridiculous. But I want to move us quickly through these two agenda items before Mr. Backelman joins us. So the next item on the agenda is the IFB follow up. I wanted to come to the group to let you all know that we are working with leap to help us review policies and procedures at the embers police department. I'm really excited to work with leap I feel like they are really, they're being flexible and they're eager to help us. As you can see in the contract that's in this evening's packet. It is a smaller scope of work that they're going to be able to do. Three things for certain that they're going to be able to investigate and provide information on are the use of force, consent searches in pretextual stops which I believe will support our report on traffic control and what we have on consent searches now. They have also been flexible with us to include language around if time permits to look at other things such as the APD data collection process, providing information on how to make public safety data transparent review of other policies like police overtime response protocol, firearm policies and staffing, and also UMass mutual aid agreements, which I think will be really helpful. I wanted to meet with Amos from leap a little bit before this meeting to talk about sort of the background to what we're hoping to get from each of these for the scope of work so I thought that was really helpful. In regards to our other consultants, seventh gen is unable to work with us because our timeline is very, very tight. The ADMHA is wondering in regards to our timeline. If we could give them an extra week. What I am thinking moves us sort of into our next agenda item which is the proposed timeline meeting schedule. Miss Moistin can I share my screen. Absolutely. I just have to be excused for a moment so don't call on me because I'm not going to be here. So this is the proposed meeting schedule that Alicia and I put together. One of the things that I wanted feedback on was how the group felt about meeting for an extra long meeting on October 7. What I am thinking is, is we give our October 7 meeting to leap in the ADMHA to present to us to give them an hour each and then 30 minutes of questions that we might have. Does anybody have any thoughts on that. And I'm sorry if I'm talking so fast I, I wasn't, I wasn't aware that the ADMHA was interested in this work until an hour and a half before meeting. Miss Ferrara. So I guess what is the ADMHA going to do because I wasn't able to review all of these things since you know we got a little bit later and stuff so I guess what I know what leap is going to focus on what are they going to focus on if I could just get a quick kind of summary of like quick like brief summary of. And then also, I guess if you can kind of go over what the schedule would be for the rest of the time so that again I can have, and maybe if we can get that sent out to us so that we have it. So we can kind of figure out you know okay what how much work are we going to get done within this time period. But anyway, so yeah, those are my questions. Absolutely. So the ADMHA is going to work with us to help us look into how the Amherst police department could be anti racist in terms of training accountability and supervision. Okay. And then in regards to the timeline. This is the meeting schedule that I put together with Alicia, we're intending that we meet four more times. The October 7 meeting the reason why it's a little bit longer than others is because we would intend to have ADMHA present and leap. And also report on the crest, like have crest the crest implementation team update and successor group and resident oversight board update. And then the meeting after that would be to discuss the consultants recommendations that we'd like to add to our report, and also maybe coming up with some alternatives after we get their information. And then we would present to the town council, and then Alicia and I designated the last CSWG meeting Thursday the 28th just for reflections. Miss Pat. Thank you to our incredible coach here so much. I'm okay with the, with the revised schedule, but I can speak for everyone. Thank you. Another thing in regards to the ADMHA. We are in conversation with them right now but they are not 1000% working with us given that the timeline is so tight they have requested an extra week. In the original IFB there was wording around to two hour presentations and we'd like to shut it down to just one one hour presentation to us and then we'd like them to join us for the town council presentation to support our recommendations and answer questions. If I have more information on whether they're working with us, I can let the group know. Miss Frera would leap also join us for the town council meeting. Yes. Okay, good. Yeah, because it'd be good for both of them to be there, if they're going to work with us. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, as of right now, it seems, yeah, it seems doable. You know, my only concern and I guess when we talk to Mr. Barkman is in terms of the follow up committee, right, because we're going to be basically making our recommendations and then pretty much will be leaving, you know, soon after that, you know. So I think that would be that and then I think to and I think we probably want to give more thought to it. I wanted to tell Ms. Pat, I like the idea of us kind of at least putting together something in terms of our experience with the CSWG. I do think that that would be important to document, because we were and will always be a very unique group. And we can't let that kind of, you know, fall to the wayside because we know that once we're done, then all of the different myths will begin and changes to what we did and so on so forth. So I think it would be important for us to have our own viewpoints or I definitely would be willing to be part of creating something like that. Thank you for supporting that. If we don't do it, somebody else will write it. I mean, somebody else will do it. So a lot during Part A of our charge I started working on sort of a document talking about our experiences and the pushbacks that we've experienced. Maybe I can share that with the group and we can add to that and talk about some of the experiences that we've had for Part Two of our charge and make it sort of a timeline of our experiences when we're reporting and include both of our reports. I really do like the idea that Ms. Pat brought to the group on a book. Yeah. Hundreds of years to come, our ancestors, our grandchildren and great grandchildren, they will be like, oh my mom, my dad did this for this town. History. We're making history in this town. We're risking everything. And to be on this group, it's not an easy group to be in. So to be very honest and be vocal and speak your mind and speak your truth. It's not easy. I'm a little bit of a lighter note and I can't even believe this on quoting her roads when he said a lot of times, when history is being made that people don't know that they're making history. And so I have to say, you guys might feel like frustrated because everything didn't move the way that you wanted to or all the recommendations didn't weren't implemented in the way that you wanted them to be. But I have to say, again, we've not had any committee for the last nine years that I've been here that has done so much and such a little amount of time. So. Thank you. Are you doing great job to it's not easy to be in your position. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. So we appreciate you very, very much. So when is Mr. Buckman joining us. Yeah, you definitely do it with a lot of grace. Yeah, she does it. Thank you. I can hear him, I think he because he's in another meeting. I think he's trying to, you know, transition from one to the other. We do have one just one last agenda item. The resident oversight board follow up. So I wanted to let you all know that Mr. Vernon Jones Alicia myself have a meeting next Monday at three o'clock with the town manager and the chief to engage in more dialogue and speak about next steps, and we'll update the group at the next meeting. Thank you. And then I don't do you guys have a question. Go ahead. I just didn't know if you guys had any needed any clarification on the differences between the town managers appointed committee and the town council. I mean, like there's no documentation for that really. It would just be whatever I wrote up based off of what Paul and perhaps Lynn has said and I haven't spoken with the council president about this yet either so. But the from what I've been told by Paul and the way that I see it is, you know, both of those. The council and the town manager have a great amount of, I'll just say it power right for lack of better words. So one is more towards legislation and the other one is more towards executive. And that's really the only difference and so my thought process would be whoever is going to get it moving. The fastest would be the way to go because I don't necessarily know that there's a lot of a difference right. But again, I will definitely check in with Lynn tomorrow or the town council president and see what her thoughts are about that. Thank you miss moisten miss Ferrara. Yeah, I mean I definitely see what you're saying miss Pat in terms of the town manager possibly putting whatever is quicker but the only thing is though is that we do want it to be long standing in terms of at least until all these recommendations like that they're monitoring the recommendations that they're following a lot of what, you know, our wishes were for the reports part a and part B. So the other thing though with Mr. Paul Bachman, unfortunately, is that it seems like he, you know, which is what he's doing with us right when we asked him to stay on longer and he was like no. He just will dissolve it, you know what I'm saying with all the recommendations being put into place and stuff so I, you know, the town council might be the longer way to go, but it might be the more the place that it stays longer. If that's case I guess I would want it to be whatever they would have a little bit more security to stay in place until the work is done in terms of overseeing and monitoring the recommendations. So I think for the council to dissolve a committee than it is for the town manager, I believe I'm not 100% sure but I think so. Thank you Mr. era miss Pat. I think it would depend on the outcome of this upcoming election, it depends on what we have, because if we have what we currently have. I think the oversight board might be diluted so much by the town council that if we're talking about new town council. Next year, then perhaps it makes sense to have them create that, but with this one. I don't have, you know, much trust. The second thing is that someone has suggested that we should actually push for is it one like something that the other the town council or the voters should look into so that to make the oversight board. Have more security like cushion that it won't get dissolved. It wasn't a bylaw it was like the step above a bylaw. Yeah, something like that. Yeah, I just, I didn't see that in the recommendation but it's something that we need to include as well. I just brought the president of the council and and so perhaps she's here and she can answer some of those things herself. Okay. Let me try to answer it first of all, I always enjoy listening to your meetings it's educational and you work so hard. The town managers under the town manager item report item on this gender for Monday is in fact the what our follow on committee we're calling it something else the whatever committee to CSWG. And that is not and the reason we put it there is because of the issues that several of you have raised and that is that you would like to see this get moving forward or CSWG concludes their work. And so the town manager and I agreed to put it on the agenda for this week for a discussion with the council. I'm afraid it's going to be very late at night because I also know he's in another meeting where they're still on agenda item one. So, just it's not these things don't happen as fast as we would like them to. So, and part of that discussion will in fact be should this be a town council committee or should it be a town manager committee. Either way, there are committees in Amherst that basically become ongoing permanent committees. And this, I don't think you're going to see this committee have this kind of short time frame that you've had, or, you know, the absolute deliverables, I think you're going to see something that's broader, although I have not seen your draft charge. But I have personally and I cannot speak for the council, but I have personally seen the following committee the subsequent committee as being something that's around for a long time. That really is overseeing, if you will, public safety kinds of issues so that discussion will happen on Monday it's not going to wait until we see you at the end of October. Okay. Thank you. Absolutely. So, follow up with that. So, okay, so the discussion happens. The name of it is a community safety and social justice committee. Thank you. So, so that discussion happens on Monday. When will the decision be made, I guess, in regards to it. Will it be that Monday too, or will it be another time. Based on the discussion of the council, it could be made on Monday. I mean, people could just say listen, we think this should be a town manager committee go forth and make it happen. What if it's what if it's decided about the town council can you all. Well, you know, somebody was talking about how people get into wordsmithing and I've seen it happen. So, I'd like to tell you it'd be fast. I don't want to be caught in a lie. I think we would do the best we could. You know, we, we, we've created things that look initially like town council meet committees, the, the ECAC and environmental climate action committee was one of those. But in fact, it's town council it's town commit it's town manager appointees. In fact, we recently revised that charge, so that as of January 3, when the new council is seated. There will not even be counselors on it. It will only be residents. It up up until now it's had two counselors on it. But it the town manager does make those appointments he does bring appointments to the TSO committee which is the Come on. I'm full of my acronyms tonight I'm sorry. The town services and outreach committee, and they approve them. I have seen in the space of the last two plus years I've only seen maybe three appointments ever even challenged, and even then they've gone through. So, I guess my question would just be that if it does get created through the town manager, you know, I guess the bottom line is, I'm trying to make sure it doesn't get dissolved by the town manager so when you talk about this standing committee being long term, even if it's created by the town manager, would that be the case then would it be written as such, right, or because this is what happened with us right this was a as a town manager said it wasn't supposed to be a long term committee, and therefore he's dissolving us. So something. No, I'm sorry. I was very rude. Go ahead, Deb. No, no, it was just to say that you know if it is created by the town manager and like you said if it's created as a long standing committee. So he then have the power to, you know, dissolve it, even if it stated as a long standing committee, you know, I mean obviously I can see him dissolving it let's say obviously for cause right like everyone goes crazy and it's doing a job where they're getting meetings obviously that would be a reason to dissolve it, but borrowing something crazy like that, right, people are just doing their work and they're being strong and they're actually making sure that these, you know, the issues of social justice issues are being followed through that should not be a reason for this, you know, for dissolving and the solution. Just a little bit of history. When the town council was seated, we were given a very thick document that was put together by the select board chair Doug Slaughter, and it was a document describing all of the committees. And we had this discussion G you know maybe we should consolidate some of these and so forth. That was three years ago, and nothing has happened. No committee has been dissolved. No committee has ended. What happened with CSWG is you had kind of a task to get done and we really wanted you to get it done as fast as possible and my gosh you have been amazing. So in that process of getting it done. Now the question is well what should we do to make this carry on. And fortunately, you have come forward with the draft. Again I have not seen it but my understanding is the draft of a charge for a follow on committee of a successor committee, and that successor committee may not have a termination end. We don't have one on the climate action committee. There's very few committees that I know of, mostly task forces do, or occasionally the president actually has the ability to appoint a task force. We did when we did the percent for art committee, and as soon as their task was done we dissolved it, but a lot of committees in the town of Amherst are in perpetuity until somebody says maybe we should look at them all and see what we should do with them. But nobody's done it yet. Does that answer your question to. Yes, thank you. Thank you so much. Absolutely. Is it in your charge that you've drafted do you have an ending date. Nope. No, good. Keep it that way. Lynn I do have a question for you thank you so much for joining the conversation. If our six, if our successor group. Well, first off I just want to say I see one of the biggest roadblocks or obstacles that this group has faced to implementing our recommendations budget. If this group becomes a town council committee will the successor group be more hand be able to be more hands on with the budget of our recommendations and carrying this out. You know, we're all in the same boat when it comes to that. And, you know, every East, for instance, you know, ECAC, they have published this huge document. If we implemented everything that document asks us to implement it would be the entire budget of the channel, because they would want every vehicle to be electric. They would want every roof to have solar on it, etc. They'd want us to have home incentive programs etc. You know, we just can't afford it so one of the biggest challenges that the town manager and his staff face every year is to give is to bring to the council for review a balanced budget. And so you'll certainly have the same level of ability to make recommendations, but you're, I hate to say it, you're in these pottos with all of us. Are you, are you wanting me to, you want to say something to me. Well, not, well, not limited to you to the group I just want to kind of follow up on Deb and Brianna. So I think one of the things that needs to happen and I, when this they're putting this forward as a standing committee, so that there is no end date so I do suggest that, you know, again the Human Rights Commission has there's a bylaw for that. And so it unless you change the bylaw that was ruled by town count man, the, sorry town meeting, it's not going anywhere. So those kind of things make things a little more secure, but also in regards to Brianna and the finances I think, you know, one of the bigger problems I think that happened with the CSWG is that you guys just didn't have the full understanding of how the budget process works. And so when we had the meeting, the first meeting with the African heritage reparations, except reparation assembly. One of the things that we did was we had John McGonnell come and walk through the budget and walk through what the stabilization funds were for them currently. So I think that, given this new standing committee, full resources of how the budget process works will be a much better, right, like it'll put them in a better position than, and I'm sorry that this happened with you guys that you didn't have those full resources and understanding of the budget it just kind of came up and it was like, we're going through the budget right, as opposed to really fully understanding how a municipal budget works because it works much different than a private sector budget, much different than like a university or a school budget, it's municipality for whatever reason is its own beast. And so I just think having those full resources will be something that we look to do for the standing committee. And I think that's absolutely right on. And first of all, a standing committee is an ongoing committee that it stays until somebody decides somewhere and it has to be, you know, through some process that it's not going to happen. So I, a standing committee is exactly what you want. I'm just going to share my own experience. Go for the standing committee first, do not try to make it through a bylaw. Initially, because the bylaw just takes so much longer. So just go for the standing committee, then try to do the bylaw. Let me just add to what Jen saying about the budget. Literally, the town begins in October and November to start forming the budget for next year. I believe that I believe it's on the 15th of November. There will be a meeting of the school committee, the library, and the town council, and Sean McGonough and the town manager will make a presentation that gives us a projection of what they think the budget will look like the coming year. Right. I think that's what we're doing to share our calendar is a mess. We will also have a public forum where we're literally asking people, individuals committees, whatever, come and tell us what you want to see. Then we actually move to put together what's called financial guidelines. And it's developed by the finance committee. And I don't want to interrupt you, but Miss Moisten, do you know if Mr. Bachman will be joining us tonight? I just want to be mindful of everybody's time and I know we have scheduled the meeting to eight. Yes. And he just texted me and said that they're winding down and then some other conversation to happen. So I know that he's, he's trying to. Right. So, Mariana, let me just say, we're starting the budget process and very, very soon for the, that goes into the next year. And even then, the, wow. Yeah, this is fancy. And even then, when the new council is seated in January on January 3, they will review anything that the previous council has already done. They make changes. They make changes. Miss Ferrara. Yeah, just to say thank you, Lynn again for, you know, describing that process and and I'm in total agreement with Jennifer, I think that that was something that obviously, you know, was, you know, too bad and hopefully it wasn't purposeful right that we didn't get that that budget overview. And I think that's going to be critical in the beginning because that did end up being a big part of the problem, right, especially towards the end, in terms of like, wait a minute, but, but this wasn't told to us in the beginning. And so now here we are making these recommendations and now we're hampered by the reality of the municipality and its budget, you know, so I think that that's going to be critical for the standing committee to have that understanding and to also have the understanding of, okay, what's the where the parameters that we can push against to, you know, because obviously, you know, a committee like ours is always going to be pushing against okay what's the status quo. So what's the parameters we can push against, however, what is also how things work, you know, so yeah, that would have been incredibly important for us to have gone early on. One other comment, and that is a lot of the budget process is regulated by state law. And so, while we'd like to think we have complete control we don't. Yeah, and I just I, you know, I want to say that I've learned I have learned so much from working with CSWG. And it's put me in a position in different places here in the town where I'm getting more intel I'm more involved in certain things that, and it makes more sense but one of the things that I did really really notices that, you know, I think moving forward for any new committee, regardless of what it is that, you know, a new committee needs to have the town clerk come and go over the basic, you know, open meeting laws, and that the finance director needs to come and do a presentation on the budget and so that's something, unfortunately, that we learned and Mr. Bachman said just he said just a one minute and so I think he's coming he has a step away for a second and then he's coming in. So, I just wanted you to exit me. Oh, okay. Thank you, Miss Lynn. Absolutely. Thank you so much. This is very helpful. I learned something tonight. That's awesome. Me too. This while we're waiting for Mr. Bachman. How long are we going to dedicate to this because I do. I know we had scheduled it until eight. You know, we were supposed to meet with him for 30 minutes. So, well, I guess for me, I'm saying 15 minutes is as much as I can give to this point that I need to, I need to take care of my family. Did we lose Alicia. Yeah, she's only that her she just texted me that her computer froze. She's logging back on now. She's also has something time sensitive so I'm hoping that we can keep the conversation 1520 minutes max. Can we negotiate at 20 max everybody leave. Yeah, I can hit leave really quick. Bam, we're gone. You're still working. You're still at work. I am. And yesterday my son's car broke down on Montague Road. None of the lights or anything worked in it. So I don't know, Route 63, I almost walked down to the Cumberland Farms area, Brianna. But it's very dark. And so there were, there were no lights or anything on down there. And we call AAA at 930 and they didn't show up to 130. And so we hadn't eaten or anything and then my other son calls at some point and it's like the dog ate the pizza, which was like even more devastating for us. Like dinner. And so I am exhausted. Wow. You get good sleep tonight. So what else do we have. So that was the last agenda item was just a conversation with Mr. Backelman. I'm trying to figure out if he walked himself out. So then the next meeting, just so I'm clear, the next meeting date, then if we can just kind of go with that. So, because I know we just did the. Oh, yes. It would be the 7th. It would be Thursday, October 7th, and we would be meeting from 6pm to 9pm. Okay, so six tonight so I can update. And moving forward, are we always going to be meeting now at six. Yeah, I have that on the schedule, but if group members have an issue with that time, I'm happy to move it. That's good. That's good. I love the six o'clock. It's perfect. I get my homework done in between. I was really happy when Jennifer was like when you send that and you were like six o'clock. I was like, yay. Oh, yes. Thank you for joining us tonight. I apologize for being late. I'm the sole staff person for the TSO committee. So thank you for being patient. Yeah, of course, we have about 15 to 20 minutes. We'd like to dedicate for this conversation. So a hard 820 deadline. I wanted to open the floor to you to hear your feedback on our, the draft that Ms. Pat sent you on our successor committee first. Yes, so that will be on the agenda for the town council on Monday. I'm presenting, I'm giving it to them for their conversation. I'm sure it will be scheduled as an actual agenda item. You're welcome to come to that meeting, but it'll probably be more likely that it'll be an agenda item for the council to discuss. Have you had conversations about this at all? Yeah. Yes. Okay. And then with it going to the town council, would they just be looking over our charge and would they be making the edits or revisions or would you or. Well, I think, you know, so I'm, I don't know what, what conversation you've had about it. I mean, my belief is that this should be a town council committee that they created. I think it has more and more sustainability that way. And so I think that kind of conversation. That's where that should be. Ms. Rara. Yeah, and Lynn was just on actually. Yeah, she was just on and she was telling us some of the information, you know, relevant. And of course, you know, I just want to make sure I kind of go over it with you. I guess for me, and you know, I don't want to speak for the rest of the group, because I'm sure they'll share with you. For me, the important part will be, again, it being a standing committee, it being on term. It's not being susceptible to just this, this solution like willy nilly, you know, without actual, you know, real reason to dissolve it right like basically okay you're not doing any work or something like that, you know. Because the committee is active and doing the work that it should be long standing. So my thing would be how would that happen, you know, is it best to happen through a town manager committee because that's what Lynn Lynn said that it will probably be a good idea to start it as a town manager and then turn it into something with a bylaw, because it wouldn't be dissolved. So I think that would be something the second question would be, how soon can that committee be put into place because obviously we need that that group to kind of, you know, be put sooner, of course, having process which we I mean a selection process which we stated in our charge and everything, but putting that in place and then third and we didn't put that in there, but I think we need to mention it and maybe obviously we're still on our drafts recommendations we haven't finalized that you know, will there be some type of stipend or something to it because it'll be a group that will be doing a lot of work, you know, so I think, you know, at least something, you know, should be able to go along with the work that that group does. So I never like to be out of sync with the town, the council president so I don't know what she has said. So we may disagree on this actually one belief is that a town manager committee is an advisory committee you are an advisory committee to the town manager, right. And the other town manager created this the community safety working group can make changes to it whatever. I think the next level is a town council create a committee which is what the energy and climate action committee was is what the reparations committee, African heritage reparations and then the third level is a bylaw, which is what the Human Rights Commission I believe is Jen would know. So each, you know, the doing a town manager is fast and you know it's just approving it, but it, but the next town manager can dissolve it say okay I'm done thank you very much. Town council committee is more townwide it feels like to me. And again I don't want to be a step with the town council president but it would be the town council that would have to change anything on the charge. Then a bylaw is as much more formidable it takes longer to get up and pass a bylaw. And then, and then it once it's there it's there unless you really rescind the bylaw itself. How long would it take though for the town council, if it seems like you're saying the town council will be the one to have more security besides on the bylaw way which Yeah, yeah. It can take time it I mean I just came from a meeting that was supposed to take an hour and it took two hours on one agenda item we are the still at first agenda item at 730 started 530 so I would hate to predict how long it would take them, but they actually did the reparate the HRA charge pretty quickly. So I don't think it's one or two meetings they usually take two meetings for almost anything. Would we be able to get this going before the end of our charge. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. So that's why I put it, I put what you had drafted into the council packet for Monday. So that we get the ball rolling on it. And they may have opinions on it whether which way they want to go. Thank you, Mr. Backelman miss Pat and then miss Walker. Mr. Paul I was wondering your feelings about us recommending to CSWG members being on the standing committee, your feelings about that. So I think, you know, that I think that's fine I think you don't want that you may not want that in the actual charge because then it's, you know, this charge will last for years right and so it's people are going to say well we have to now have two people who used to be on CSWG, you know, five years from now. So I think that what we can adjust it say initial membership should include because it is a scene as a successor group. And so I think that that, you know, there's some logic to that and for instance with the AHRA, which is the reparations assembly they did have someone from reparations framers designated as being as a member of that group. And I did, if I may go back to Ms. Ferrara's comment about stipends. You know, I think that should be a recommendation. It's, you know, something we're looking at for more globally for all town committees but I think by all means I would recommend you should recommend that is that's what you feel. Thank you. Thank you miss Pat miss Walker. Yes, thank you, Mr. Rockland one. So I was wondering if you had any feedback or any thoughts in regards to the charge or the language that we used in itself because I think what we were hoping for would is that this would be a time that you would give us feedback and your like ideas around it so that we can make sure that what we're presenting to the council is fully developed because I think we also had the idea that depending on what feedback or suggestions you gave to us we might want to revive that. And I'm not saying that we would want to do that at this point because I think at this point we're interested in getting this moving along as quickly as possible but I just would be interested in if this is going to go in front of the council and you're going to say well I have X, Y and Z suggestions I would like to know what those are also ahead of time. So yeah I did not want to make changes to what you had recommended. So, there were, I think that it works really well. Because you build off of the resolution that the town council had always already done. So the terms of appointments. There's some language we can put in there that everybody would recognize where you start with like one two and three year terms and then it that it flows and the terms actually will be three year terms but you start with, you know, two with one year terms two with two year terms and three with three year terms and then from then on, it's a three year term and there's language in the charter that we can just adapt for that. I didn't recognize the charter section that was being referenced under authority. It's a section 32 colon six so I think we want to identify what that section truly is. And respond to that. I just copied what from the, I think from CSWG or something. I just copied it. So we can look at that. When you have the composition. It requires two white residents. And then, and it says a total of seven residents from socio economic diversity and I'm not really sure what that actually means. So, what's what you mean by seven residents from socio economic diversity. Differing socio economic. Is that what we met. Yeah. Good idea. With diverse socio economic background. So we don't want them to all have the same socio economic background we want across the members for there to exist a diverse socio economic range. I, I gathered that I assumed that that's what you meant, but in terms of, like, if we have all people lower income do I have to go and recruit a wealthier person to serve on it. And also, we don't really ask him that question about what is your socio economic status that's never, it's not a question we ever ask anybody. So I'm not sure how we would accomplish that. You have advice. Employment information usually asked for job information. No. On the calf. No, I don't think we do. Jen, do we, we don't ask that on the community activity form do we. I think it's one of those things that might be optional. I'm going to look at a community activity. Yeah, form and I'm also trying to pull up the charge just to be helpful so that people can see it. So in terms of, I guess, two things, I guess you said that we should change the language to say initial. It should be initial likes to see it right. That's just housekeeping. Yeah. Yeah, so that would be one and then the other one. So I do get what you're saying in terms of, you know, necessarily don't have to pull like white residents in there. What we could do is just say five by Park, because I think what's important is to make sure that there's five by Park residents and at least initially two members of CSWG, you know what I'm saying, and then we could just leave it at that. We don't have to say to white residents and kind of just leave it and keep it, you know, keep it thrown, keep it as such, right. So the composition I think you would, there's some language I think for the CSWG charge it's a, I think you'd say at least five by Park residents. So right now it says you have to have five and you have to have two whites, and I don't think you need to necessarily. If it's all by Park. So be it right. But you're just saying that minimum. Exactly. Yeah. So I mean, I guess this is all helpful. Would you be able to just kind of provide us some of that language? Absolutely. Then we could kind of, you know, fiddle with it. But I think these are all helpful suggestions. The other, the other on the under the charge. The second bullet was to see where it says ensure the implementation of all CSWG recommendations. So that actually is a recommend the CSWG recommendations would go technically to the town manager, but ultimately to the council. And so if the council doesn't accept one of the recommendations for whatever reason. You know, and they say no, we don't want to do that. I think it would be hard to include this into the charge. If the council says no, we don't want to do that thing that CSWG had recommended. So I just think we might want to, you know, talk about what that means and what how that is included. I. So one of the things that I had thought about, oh, so under staff support, I think it's fine to say town manager doesn't need we had talked about having the DEI director be the support person for this committee. So, Miss moisten and then miss Pat. Sorry, I so I because I can't show the community activity form because of, you know, privacy issues, but I can tell you what the fields are. So it does ask for your contact information first name, last name, address, town, email, phone, and then tell me about yourself. And then if you're following on any, it just doesn't ask it asks for age, gender, racial, back, ethnic background languages spoke, and those are optional. So there's no inquiry about place of employment or economic status. Could we add a question to encourage candidates to share lived experience that would aid them on this committee or something with language around that. So we could I mean this is a form that's used for all town committees and the council has a similar but different form for its appointment point of committees. I think there's room on the committee on the forum to fill out. I think there's room people, some people felt the bare minimum because it's just they're just want to put their name in others put a lot more work, a lot more effort into it. I think even if we could put in parentheses encouraging candidates to share lived experience that could be relevant to the work it would be helpful. Miss Pat. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I think people can have some idea. Just to say occupation, somebody can say retired, you can have an idea. Somebody can say school teacher, somebody can say homemaker or something you can have an idea. That's in direct way of getting social economic background. I don't know. I mean, I, so I don't know. I'm a little bit concerned about that because I could say I'm a personal care attendant, but my husband's a physician. Right. And so that changes it. Okay, we can just. So, so my question is, should we just live that delete that one social economic. Mr. Bachman and this Walker. I think going down Miss Owens route, which was we might, we would actually think that it's a good idea to say for all of our committees say we are looking for people with lived experience with a broad social socioeconomic background to, and I think that that would apply to all committees not just this committee and that would be a statement to sort of of an inclusivity that we'd want to stay out there. What do you think of that Jen. I think that's, I was going to suggest something similar to that and I think that is helps with our inclusivity. Yeah, we wouldn't have to put it specifically in the, in our charge, but it would be a blanket. It would be on the form that you complete your interest form. Awesome. I know you had your hand up. Did you. And then I'm going to say something similar and I'm actually in agreement with Mr. Bachman suggestion because I was going to say that I do think that it's still important. So, I want to thank Alicia for bringing that up when we walked on the document. So, Mr. Bachman do you want us to send you the updated document. Based on your input, are you going to help us out and send us something aren't you going to send us the language and then we update it and then we'll send it back to you right. Yes, so I could, if you would like, if I could get a word I have a PDF version, if I could get a word version I get to attract changes and send it just back to the CSWG for your comments for your comments back. I'll send it to you tonight. Okay, tomorrow morning sorry. And then and then by when do you need our feedback because I know you're going to go on Monday. So I think what we want to do on Monday is, and is to introduce the successor committee to make sure the council and then say when would you like to schedule this on your meeting because, well, I'm assuming and maybe the council president and I are in audits on this. I think that it should be a council meeting committee and if they say no we don't want to do this then I would just move forward on it so I think we'll get hopefully they'll talk about it on Monday. A little bit to say, I think there's some general understanding that there's going to be a successor agreement. For me though, I'd rather, like, if we still can because I know they get materials beforehand. If we still can I would rather have it be in front of them like what we're thinking and all of that, you know, because this is time is of the essence, but we're going to be done at the end of October. So the sooner they can put this in place and like you said in terms of hopefully that through the town council which takes a little bit of time, the better it'll be right. So the draft is in their packet now. Yeah, what about this but this updated because I do like a lot of the switches that that we're trying to make and again like what Alicia and Brianna brought up the whole thing is, we're trying to do it in a way that, you know, gets the approval. So you get the draft, and it's not with some of these kind of changes, especially since they like wordsmithing right Lynn has said that's Russ has said this they like wordsmithing. So I think we want to get them the cleanest document because even with that they're going to start work to me. So that would be my thing can we do that. I say by tomorrow night or something or Saturday morning. Yeah, so you don't have a meeting posted so you can't do it as a committee. You could delegate to a member of the committee to do it, I could try to get something you know my edits to you. I mean, I think that we could also just at the meeting on Monday say, you know, there are there changes to be made on this and they will recognize it really quickly about all this and we were just talking about really cosmetic changes for most for the most part. Basically, you're saying that's that that they already have the draft that's what's going to have to stay, but okay, so no, no, no, no, no. This one I would recommend I will email the water to the time manager, if it's okay for everybody, let him make the changes and send it to the school to the town councilors. I would rather. No, but we need we need to look at it. Yeah. Okay. I think I had to make the changes. Make enough time to send it to the town councilor. But I still want my I want to have my eyes on it. Miss Walker I see your hands up. Sorry. So my suggestion would be that if Mr. Bachman could stick to the first suggestion of making the changes that we talked about tonight in with the change tracker so that we could see them, and then have that sent to miss moisten so she can distribute it to all of us and then we can send it to the town council. I don't think we should be presenting drafts to the town council. I think we should be presenting something that we say this is good. If you guys hope yes tonight, you can pass it because otherwise we're going to prolong this even more because then it's going to have to come back to us again. And then I had one other question. We created two additional documents that were essentially to go with the resident oversight board but I think that they might be important documents to be presented to the town council with the draft of the successor group and that is the why majority BIPOC and the why stipend documents. And I think if we could include those in the packet and that those can be also looked at that those are important things to consider when looking at the successor group as well. Oh yeah because we still need to do the stipend. Yeah, we haven't decided on that though, because we need to include that. So, so quickly, can we give up give ourselves deadline like can people, you know, give feedback by 3pm tomorrow. It's unrealistic. Yes, I will, I will email the word up to the, to the town manager. He makes the changes and send it to us. Can we, you know, give our feedback to him by 3pm tomorrow. Yeah, that's right. Well, Mr. Bachman, will you be able to get the document to us with your changes that quickly. I don't know so I can't guarantee that so. So what I'm, let me throw out a different approach I think they are the council meets next Monday as well to meet this Monday and next Monday. So if I, you know, we introduce it on Monday. You give me the word document I returned the marked up version you can talk about it on Thursday at your meeting at a publicly posted meeting and then you say here's what we want. Finally, to be the final draft that goes to the council for its meeting on October 4. I think that's the date. I think that would be a for me anyway I think that would be a better thing because because we still have the stipend we still have the other things I don't want to also rush this so that then we don't include important things that we need to include in there, you know, because that's a good miss pattern and miss Walker. Okay, so my concern is that the standing committee might not be up and running before CSWG dissolves on November 1, because appointment needs to be made I don't know how quickly that happens that at least we should have one or two weeks overlap with the new group please please let's quickly please. Miss Walker and then Miss Ferrara. My only concern with the second recommendation of the town manager is that we don't have a scheduled meeting for next week. So there would be no way for us to just email but we can email each other I mean, you know, we don't have I mean, what else am I going to do on Saturday morning, like come on. But Jennifer you wouldn't have to do that if if if we elongate it then it wouldn't be this rush rush it would just be Paul getting it to us us going through it and then getting it to you and then you get it to us and we have time to kind of, you know, mull it over and then get it to them. I mean, we can, they walk on, you know, the, you know, is there weekend off so we have to be respectful of that too. We can expect them to work on weekends, please. But Miss Pat, that's why. Tomorrow, let's get this done for tomorrow, please. Miss Walker and then Mr. Backelman. What I think the best course of action would be is that if Mr. Backelman could make the revisions by the end of the day tomorrow and send it out to us before he leaves and then that we have the weekend to get our suggestions back. I know ideally we would have the final version in the town council packet ahead of time but realistically since tomorrow's Friday and then we hit a weekend. So I don't think it's an issue because they do have the previous draft and they aren't going to be truly significant changes I don't think so I think it would still be okay to just bring them whatever we come up with over the weekend on Monday. So we should present to them the why stipend document that says why there should be a stipend, and that if there is a discussion leading to the town council approving this document, they can recommend the stipend to us and we can come back next meeting or something because we don't have time to come up with a whole discussion to recommend what the stipend would be but we have a document explaining why stipends are important that we can give to them at this time. Thank you so much, Mr. Backelman. They will not vote on it on Monday. They have, they have not seen anything they never vote, I mean it's very seldom that they are taking a significant action like this. Just on the first reading, especially if they don't have it well in advance I mean I get lectured on this all the time from the council. So, I mean I think it's too bad you're not meeting next week. So the idea of sending things to. So, the idea of the open meeting was you can't deliberate electronically so you, Jennifer can send information to everyone. You can't, if you express opinion back to her that's fine but if she shares what you said to other people then that's called deliberating and that's not allowed under the open meeting law. We do this. So I think that. Stop committing. Miss moisten, and then miss wondering if I make the changes. So if Deborah gives me sends in the changes that she wants, and I put them into the document and then, well that's a lot of back and forth though. Yeah, that's called consecutive that's avoiding the open meeting. Serial discussion. Miss Walker. But sorry, can we not just do it in two rounds like miss moisten sense to us your corrections. We all send back to her one, our one set of corrections and she puts them all together, sends it back to us. Okay. It's the last step that we're getting the revisions that she made from all of us that makes it not work. I think the solution might be a subcommittee I guess Miss Pat suggested it I think that might be the best way you know if you have people already getting together or something who can look at it. And say, and then, if the, if the working group is saying yes you have our blessings whatever you finalize is fine by us, and he went on forward it on. So we would try to get that done by the end of Thursday, next week, next Thursday so it gets in the council package. I just have to ask the council president she will add this to the agenda so. So it would be the only, the only caveat on this, but it's not a complicated document, but and also the good they will have seen it for a first draft of it Monday, so it won't be new to them. And they'll see a finalized version with support documents coming to them the next week. Miss Walker and then miss Pat. So, if, so would you all still have a discussion about it this Monday and if so what would this discussion be about if you're just going to rehab that discussion, the following Monday. So what I was intending is to say that community safety working group is recommending a successor group. There's a draft charge that the committee has has put together. We're finalizing charge the charge and cleaning it up and have that ready for your next meeting and the council president is likely to put that on the agenda for the October 4 meeting. And say counselors are there any things that pop out at you that you would like to highlight to us that we should know about in advance. They asked them to raise any issues before they actually consider it. And a serious as an agenda item. Miss Rara and then miss moisture. Sorry. Honest which I think we're not deliberating worse than town council. This is easy cosmetic issues. I don't know why we wouldn't like have the time manager make the changes we discussed tonight because I took some notes. I was relation myself that, you know, put that documented together. It's not like very difficult. I'm just concerned about time. We have less than five weeks. And if we keep driving dragging this the standing committee will not happen before November 1. So we need to go back and forth online. I don't understand that. I don't get that it's very easy. Let the time manager, you know, make the changes we discussed tonight. I have the notes. And then let the council do it on Monday. Please, people. So that could be that could be an option as well. If you say delegate to the co chairs or whoever, you know, we can make the changes because they are pretty minimal. You know, the only other change I would suggest is that we don't mention the consultant that we talked about CST. It says and seven gen. But seven gen is a consultant that you had and usually we didn't put a name of a consultant in a, in a charge. You know, I think if we make the changes and then we can substitute this charge for the one that's in the, in the council packet. So it looks a little more formalized. And for the other two documents, the supporting documents, are they ready to go? Yes, they are. Okay. Ms. Ferrara. So I'm sorry to keep bringing this up, but I guess I'm confused though, are they going to vote on this if we get them something by Monday? I think they're going to vote on it on Monday. So then we're rushing this though too. I don't get it. If they're not voting on Monday. Why are we rushing it to get it before them on Monday. But that's not what Ms. Lane told us though. When she talked to us. Okay, so then she thinks that likely I mean she's still in the audience right now. All right then pull her in because I'm confused. We need to move quickly people please. Yeah, I see it's supposed to be gone already so. Yeah, and let's not, I think that the, what the issue is is whether or not who's going to, who's going to be responsible for this standing committee, right? That's what the whole thing is. That's not the issue. No, no, no, I mean that's what the council is going to be. That's what their decision is right. Is that am I not correct? This is going to be standing committee is basically going to be what our charges but you know whether they're in agreement with everything that we've written about who we are, you know, and what we're going to be in terms of a standing committee they have to vote on all of that. So, so my question is that obviously if they're going to vote on it on Monday and they can vote on it on Monday, then yeah, let's make the changes but I don't know what she said that's what she said though. Yeah, well, here she is let's see. Let's see what she says if that's the case then. So, I'm in. I think am I. Yes, you are. Thank you. First of all, I always enjoy that. Paul has all this knowledge about committees that I don't always have so thanks Paul. I'm actually fine if it's a council committee or a town manager committee you were asking what could be done fat, the most rapidly, and I was suggesting town manager can be done as rapidly. Yeah, but that doesn't mean it gives it as quote as much protection although I just don't think that's an issue with this committee. The, in terms of the cleaner it is on Monday the more likely you're to get a vote but in fact right now. I just can't predict I mean I'm only one vote of 13. And I just can't predict I know that the council is very committed to continuing the work of CSWG and receiving your report at the end of October so if they see the revised proposal the way you're proposing it. Somebody can make a motion from the floor and we could say go ahead. So hearing that I think then it makes sense for us to move to get and I think Miss Pat is right that the changes we've talked about are pretty fairly minimal. It doesn't mean the council won't have comments on it. I do want to caution you about it won't be up and running before you term. It's just impossible because the way the appointment process works under the charter is once there's a vacancy it has to be posted on the town bulletin board for 14 days. After those 14 days. We make we do the interviews. And I think the way. So, so in turn you have suggested a process for interviewing for the group right and right now. I always do bring a group together to do the interviews. So, you saw who interviewed you for this position. I again used Sid Ferrara, Barbara Love and Keisha Dennis as a sole interviewers for the reparations group. So, I mean, I think that that's that will go without saying. But then once we do the interviews, then the recommendation goes to the town council they gets gets automatically referred to the TSO committee. So it's impossible to go back to the council so it's impossible for this group to be up and running before you term. It doesn't have to take really long, but if we don't get enough candidates for instance, you know, we sometimes it takes some time to recruit people. So, and we've already done a lot of recruiting for the reparations group already. Thank you for welcoming that helpful. And so I think if we're thinking about this realistically and knowing that it's not very likely that this will be up and running before the end of our group term that that makes it even more important that we get this conversation or at least a vote, the thoughts of a vote going in council as soon as possible. I still recommend that we just make these slight revisions send it to the council on Monday with the supporting documents, because if it's strong enough if there are people who feel strongly enough about it. It does have the possibility to move to the next step on Monday, and that would make me feel a lot better than, well, well, let's talk about it again next week. So I think that we should just do as much as we can and hope for the best at this point. Thank you, Miss Walker, Miss Pat, and then Miss Ferrera. So, Miss Lynn, thank you for weighing in. Can I suggest something that Deborah and the time manager work on this so that it will get to the tanker because I don't want to, you know, do anything else. If somebody jump, you know, make changes, that's fine. We're looking for something that then is that can be approved. So Deborah, if you really want to. That's fine. Going back and forth, we don't have time for that. Yeah, but I don't want to be the one to kind of just make the decision for the CSWG. I mean, this isn't. But we're telling you not to do it. We don't have time. No, I don't feel comfortable with that. You know, I don't feel comfortable with taking that on, you know, like, what, what, what, I think we should just have a plan. You know, I mean, you know, you know, Paul can tell us like, okay, when he'll get it back and then we just need to get our, our changes to Jennifer. And we can do that because of open meeting law and we're not meeting next week. I thought that we can, we can send it back to you. I thought we had to, we could do this or something. No, we can't make any of these changes. No, no, no, we can't, we can do, we can communicate electronically like that back and forth. Isn't that what I'm saying in terms of edits before it was because we were going to be doing a lot more kind of discussion. I thought these were going to be at it. We can't get any, you're getting, you're giving us edits. We can't give you edits back. So what I'm proposing is to have one rep from CSWJ and that's you to work with the time manager so that we can have this document out on Monday. Is that okay with Alicia and Brianna. So we don't want to say it just to have your work on it so that it will get to the time council on Monday, please. Paul has to say. Mr. Bachman and then Alicia. I guess the question is. See, we don't. The most efficient way would be to get the edits that we just talked about onto paper, someone from the CSWG looks at it, because this is a document coming from CSWG so it should be the final product someone from CSWG says yes this is what we're we want to put in front of the council. And so I don't think there's a lot of room to go back and forth. And I guess the question is, are there other changes that people we're talking about it now, are there other changes that people want to talk about whoever is your designated person can incorporate or does everybody have to see the written document again. The only thing that I would want to be a part of it. And I don't know if it would need to happen before the town council meeting Monday is the conversation on stipends and putting in language for the CSWG to help negotiate those and not just go off of town council recommendations. Miss Walker and then Miss moiston. I'm bringing that up Brianna I am in complete agreement with that statement. I just want them to have the why stipend document when looking at the charge because I think it's important to know when looking at the charge that we intend this group to be stipend. I do agree with your statement but I also wanted to say just in regards to the document that Miss Pat and I worked on the original version. And so I'm like as is I'm okay with it. Because that's what we created I'm okay with the revisions that we talked about tonight I think those are all great. I really trust and respect Debra's expertise and the vision that she has and so if she has any additional edits to make I approve of them. So what about though what Paul was saying in terms of the recommendations yet ensure the implementation of all CSWG recommendations. I don't want I want that language and but I know you said that that wouldn't be something that you would you would recommend but I would want that in there. Mr. Backelman and then Miss Walker. So it's your document. If you want that in there you should put it in and I'm telling you what I would do. And you can say you can reject that change if you want to miss Walker and then miss moiston. Thank you for bringing that up again I would be happy with whatever you decide to do with this document, but my thought is to leave that in there. Because I think that I mean we were told that the town does favor the recommendations that we put forward at the, for the first part of our charge that we just can't tackle all of them at the same time. I think we've gotten feedback that we don't want to do any of these things. And so we want a group who will make sure that they can see those things through that we've already been told are things that are eventually going to happen anyways. And we have written in the charge specifics about looking for grants and other things if the funding can't happen through the town and through the town budget. And so I think that that should remain. I have an agreement miss moiston and then Mr Backelman if you wanted to respond. Yeah, I just want to say that I only have what is listed as a draft for why stipends for the, but this is why stipends for the resident oversight board. So I don't know if somebody has a different version or if that's the same thing and change it. Before I I will need to send it in to Paul, I would guess or I just have a mindset is a draft version so I just wanted to make sure there wasn't another version of it. I can look for that and in the meantime with the group feel comfortable if I just revised it to with our successor group and change the language over from resident oversight board submitted it. Okay, Miss Pat I see you had your hand. Okay, so in terms of CSWG recommendations, actually some town councilors. So some of us privately that some of the recommendations that we're taking up, we should try to keep it alive. And that's why we included those. So, yeah. So, yeah, we would like to keep the all CSWG recommendations. So Deborah, are you comfortable, you know, representing us to do this. We trust you to work with the time manager. I mean, I'm, yeah, I'm okay to do it but it all depends on the time because obviously I'm also extremely busy. What, what, what would be the time span with this poll. I'm going to send the, the, the, the thing and then you and the time manager will figure out time. I don't know. Yeah, I just want to have an idea. So I can see if I can take this on, you know, So, Miss Pat, you'll get something to me when I can email it to you right after this meeting. So if I get something to you by noon tomorrow. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I wouldn't be able to get something back to you until because I have a solid a meeting until like at least 230 almost three o'clock. So that's what I'm saying. I'm super duper busy. So, but I can get that to you, I guess. So, whenever you get it, I will send it off to the clerk for the council and ask them to put it in the packet. I can get it to you after five then. Yeah, I mean, we'll just ask her to put it in. I mean, she's in a class all day tomorrow. I know. So she won't be looking at email till about five o'clock anyway. I just ask her to look at this in particular. So it might not get into the council packet till close the business on Friday. I think it's really simple though, honestly, just to page it off. But then and then Brianna, you're going to get the other doc. I stipend. Yeah, I can do the why stipend by tomorrow at noon time. And it was what's the other one to Alicia that we're getting. It's why. I'm sending that to him now because I have that one I just didn't want to send the why stipend. Okay. All right. And I just want to say it's 847 so I don't know how do you guys have other questions for the sound man. We're done. So on the other two documents who will be the final edit to say this can go to the council. No. Yeah, Brian will send it to you and me right. And. And then I can review everything and then you. You, you were the final okay before it goes into the council packet. Yeah. Okay. Perfect. Any more questions. Okay. So does anybody have any upcoming events that they like to share? That's my son. I'm so sorry that I don't know if I made an announcement or not about the Puerto Rican heritage. Celebration today, but it was absolutely fabulous and it was one of our larger ones. I think it's going to be a great celebration tomorrow from. Four to five. We are having in the Indian. India and Pakistani and Independence Day celebration. So over on the North common as well. So. Awesome. Mr. Backelman. I know it's so late, but I think that the Puerto Rican heritage day was spectacular. I mean, it's just a remarkable day. It was, it was fabulous. Awesome. Awesome. So our next meeting date will be October 7th. And just as a reminder, we'll be meeting from 6 p.m. to 9 p.m. If the ADMA. The ADMH. The ADMH. The ADMH. The ADMH. The ADMH. The ADMH. The ADMH. The ADMH. The ADMH. The ADMH. The ADMH. The ADMH. The ADMH. The ADMH. The ADMH. The ADMH. The ADMH. The ADMH. The ADMH. The ADMH. The ADMH. The ADMH. The ADMH. The ADMH. The ADMH. The ADMH. I agree to work with us. I will keep everybody. Informed as. To the schedule and when I know information, I'll share with Miss moisten to distribute to the group. And I will also share the schedule document that Alicia and I put together so we can all be on the same page. Yeah, and I just want to say the reparations committee is going to put that out there because a lot of those folks supported that has supported the community safety working group and I'm sure that if anybody has the ability to that. Just so you guys know. Thank you. First meeting. Sorry, Brianna. Well, they had a like a introductory meeting similar to what you guys had. Back in November. And so this will be their first meeting actually. Getting into the work. Awesome. Thank you. Are there other topics that were not anticipated within 24 hours. Awesome. Okay, so with all of our business complete, I'm calling this meeting adjourned. Thank you guys so much for your time this evening. Thank you. Good night, everyone.