 Think Tech Hawaii. Civil engagement lives here. And we're back live. We are young talents making way only here on Think Tech Hawaii. I'm Andrea Gabrielli. I'm your host. And every Tuesday we keep an eye on the future with our most brilliant school students as we talk about their science projects. And joining me today is Ryan Nguyen from Kaiser High School, who carried out a science project about dementia and Alzheimer's disease. Welcome to the show, Ryan. Hi. Thanks for having me. Thank you. It's very nice to have you here today, as I understand you are a VIP, really. You are first place overall best in category for biomedical and health sciences. Did that correct? And then I understand you also received several awards from the American Chemical Society, the Queen's Health System, and the U.S. Army. So that's fantastic. Congratulations. Again, thank you for being here. And before we begin, I would like to take just a short amount of time to thank BB Davis, who is here with Dr. BB Davis, who is here with us today from the Department of Education as well as the University of Hawaii, who's going to join us here in the show. She is one of your mentors, Ryan. And also I would like to thank all of our audience, because this is going to be our last show before a small summer break. But this has been an incredible season, really. We've been here with Young Talent's Making Wave. We've been featured on OC16 every consecutive episode, as we made it to the top five lists on Fintech shows for the most viewed, one of the most viewed shows here on Fintech. So thank you very much, everyone, for watching us, for supporting us. Now, Ryan, I'm curious about your project, you know, this Domain Shell Alzheimer's Disease. Why did you pick this topic for the science sphere? So, well, there are a few different inspirations. One of them, especially about the dementia part of it, was my great-grandmother, who actually has dementia. And especially when I was younger, it was really hard for me to come to terms with the fact that she would not recognize me, she would not understand, she would not remember the things that she cared about. And that really did stick with me for a long time. And of course, I was part of the inspiration. But another part was, well, I'm currently a full-time college student, as well as being in high school. Right. And I took topology and philosophy classes. And in these philosophy classes, I learned about philosopher John Locke, who investigated how consciousness, I believe, was the key to personal identity. Right. Today we have this particular background for our show today. This is a painting by Picasso. It's the girl with the mirror. And I was reading that art, and particularly the way consciousness developed in the brain, the way we think and everything, can strongly affect dementia patients as well. Some people at the MoMA, the New York Museum of Modern Art, just by looking at this very painting here, they developed an interest in art. They wanted how to learn, and they slowly improved. So that's really something amazing. And it's great that you are really learning and studying for this. So maybe, Ryan, why don't we have your first slide up, so you can tell us more about this dementia science project that you carried out. Sure. So here, this is just an image of the brain. You can see a cross-section. And you can actually see the hippocampus and the amygdala, two of the main regions that I looked at in this project. What are they? Well, the hippocampus, it has large effects on memory. Okay. So it's a memory storage, can we say, for the brain? It creates new memories and transfers short-term memories into long-term memories. Oh, wow. Okay. So it's very important. It's also affected early on in Alzheimer's disease. And there's also the amygdala, which is another one of the places I looked at. Which is the purple one we're looking at in this image with the arrow. That's right. Right next to the hippocampus. And this area has effects on emotion, including emotional connections. Okay. So that's why you focus particularly on this. Definitely. Yeah. So what's your science project about? Well, in this project, I used data sets from two different databases and using a certain program called Free Surfer. I turned these data sets, which came from an MRI machine, into processed MRI images that were 3D-based and there were 3D and voxel-based. And I used these to create these volumetric images that I could perform volumetric analysis on and look at how Alzheimer's disease would affect the brains of these different patients. So you were trying to see a connection between the size of these amygdala and hippocampus with normal patients and people affected with dementia. Yes, definitely. And I also looked at two different areas of the brain, besides the hippocampus and amygdala, which were the insula, which has multiple different effects, and the enterinocortex, which has similar effects to the hippocampus, which is memory, but it's also the supposedly the first area in the brain affected by Alzheimer's disease. Right. And so let's maybe see another picture that you brought us, another image of the brain. So what are we looking at here? Well, this here, it's a carved out area of the brain and you can see that little pink thing in the center is actually the insula or the insula cortex. Okay. And I just wanted to point out how deeply hidden inside the brain this insula is. It really is. It's in the middle of the whole structure. So what's the role of this particular... Well, the insula itself has many effects and these include consciousness. As I was thinking about with John Locke, how he thought about consciousness. Right. That's right. It has effects on interpersonal connection and even the gut feeling that we get, say when we're scared or say you walk down a dark alleyway. Where did you find the images, the data that you used as part of this project? So the data that I actually got was two raw MRI image sets and these came from two different databases. The first was... So databases. Yeah. Two different databases. And so how did you calculate... How did you estimate the volumes of the amygdala and the hippocampus? So with these raw images, they came as well just images, gray scale... Just gray pictures. Yeah. But with using free surfer, I was able to turn these into images that were voxel based where each different voxel or cube was one millimeter cubed. And with this I could also use free surfer to approximate the area of these different regions and the volume of these. And the volumes as well. I believe the next slide is about, is an image scan that you acquired, that you got and you processed. Yeah. Can you tell us something about this particular image? So here is an image that has already been processed by free surfer, that world that I processed. And you can see the different areas... It's a cross-section? Yes, that's right. It's a cross-section. I believe coronal cross-section. But here I was trying to point out the enterinocortex, which is one of the regions I looked at. That should be right at the edge. And I also want to point out how much information that this image would give over a normal grayscale MRI image. Right. So basically you got sort of a... a bunch of data images. And then with this software you can slice, you can sort of slice the brain and have a look at all the different parts of it. That's right. And so as part of this, as you got basically the images, but you had to do the processing as well, I believe we have an image that you brought us here for your code, the code that you developed to process all these images. How did you develop this? How did you develop this? Well, this code, the code that I used was generally based off of the original free surfer stuff and this... not stuff, but the code that free surfer uses to process these images. Right. But there were a few steps in the beginning that were specifically needed since I used a kind of... I used a certain way to... instead of using... directly using Linux, which is what people would normally do, I used Windows. Oh, okay. But I had a few different steps that added to the code that I needed to use for proper processing. And this was mostly just trial and error and using materials that were already open to me. So how many mentors did you have? We mentioned Dr. Bibi Davis, but then you also had some others as part of this. So you really got involved with the medical science community, I guess, to really try and bring and carry out this science project. How was this experience, really? A lot of it was... Having all these mentors... Yeah, there were a lot of people and a lot of it was really knocking on doors. And I'm sure other people will relate to this too, but just looking for mentors, looking for people who can help, and it's great that there are so many people like these mentors that are willing to give back to the younger people that are willing to give back to the community. It's absolutely terrific, as you said. And the state of Hawaii science and engineering here is truly a wonderful opportunity for students, like you talented students, young talents, like you to really engage with this science community. But also, how was sharing this information? Because there are a variety of people around the world who are affected by dementia. There are huge numbers here in Hawaii, the world as well. And also for the Ohana of these people, the families of these people, it's very, very challenging as we remember your great-grandmother. That's right. How was sharing this information with the community as part of the science fair experience? Well, definitely part of what I tried to do with the science fair was share my ideas of how free surfer, which is generally used for research, might be used in a clinical setting where that's why I compared with CDR or clinical dementia rating, a rating of various clinical factors put together to see how bad dementia is. And while comparing this with the volume, using free surfer and my own methods, I was able to look at how possibly free surfer would be used in a clinical field, possibly, since it gives so much more information than the raw MRI scan that doctors may be getting. That's wonderful. It's a wonderful project, wonderful. And, you know, we need to learn more about this. So let's have our next slide up so we can see. This, I believe, is going to be a difference between the demented versus normal images. That's right. So maybe if we can have the slide up so we can see. Okay. So how do they differ in terms of you mentioned the size amygdala and the hippocampus? How do they differ? That's right. Well, here, it might be a little hard to see due to the size, but I pointed out the amygdala in light blue and the hippocampus in olive green. So these are two pictures. Above we have the normal brain, I guess. Yeah. And below is the demented one. Yes. Yeah. Okay. And you can see the thinness of the different volumes of the brain and the decrease in volume in general of these two areas that I looked at. You can see in the gray matter, which is the gray colored material. I mean, I'm sorry, the gray matter, which is the pink colored material and the white matter, which is the gray colored material. There is a difference in volume. Right. Okay. Let's see some result slides that you brought us here so we can compare. Okay. So this is total volume of the amygdala I see on the y-axis. Yes. And then on the x-axis, what is CDR? So CDR is the thing that I mentioned before, the clinical dementia rating, which is made up of different clinical variables. Okay. Where zero is a normal patient and three is a severely demented patient. And you can see, as CDR gets worse, noting that clinical dementia, I'm sorry, as CDR gets worse, noting that the Alzheimer's disease and dementia gets worse, you can generally see that these volumes will decrease. Okay. This is really a terrific science project that you carried out with a lot of implications for people of the communities who are affected with these problems. And so I'm very curious to learn more from you as we learn about your science project, but also from Dr. Bibi Davis who is going to join us here after our break. We'll be back soon. 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So I invite you into our conversation every other Monday at 2 p.m. on Think Tech Hawaii Broadcast Network. Join us for Hawaii Together. I'm Keeley Ikeena. Aloha. Aloha. And we're back who are live, we're young talents making way here on Think Tech Hawaii. Today we have Ryan Quinn who is talking about the dementia about his science project but also oh, we have a new guest here. Dr. Bibi Davis is joining us. Thank you for being here Bibi. Thank you for being here with us. So Bibi is from the Department of Education a STEM teacher of teachers I understand and also the University of Hawaii scholar but also a mentor for Ryan and also a judge at the science fair. Wow, that's a lot. Thank you for being with us. Thank you. And so how does it take for you for professional scientists the teacher to actually mentor a brilliant student such as Ryan at the science fair? Initially you get to know the students a little in their interest and then you explore with them where they want to go with it and then you try to find partnership with the University of Hawaii and even with members of the DOE a greater population out there to help mentor these kids in terms of the science also providing lab facilities for them to The lab facilities we talked about in a variety of other shows before. And these lab facilities are high in research lab like UH These are the labs where professional research is carried out. Yes And so it provides an opportunity for these students to go in there and you know they have curiosity and they want to innovate you know they have imaginations and with the new things that's happening today so like for example with Ryan he went out there and took with programming which is an area that's helping us understand a lot of areas better and he's trying to use that to enhance MRI scans to kind of have a better clinical evaluation from it That's really something that can help the people you know to face these issues as well these diseases Yeah And some of the other things we have to do to help the students or mentor them is also not just the science behind so for one you kind of assist them in thinking what is the science of the project and because a six year old can't understand their project either then they're not explaining it the way Some of the scientists can So for one I always tell them you know a six year old must understand what you're saying but also a professional scientist must understand what you're saying and also that journey of evaluation looking at the data interpreting what they have You have to interpret this data but also it's also something very important that needs to be taken into account Is that right? Very important and then the presentation how you present so we even work in that because sometimes if the student is not connecting with the audience or the judge or whoever they're presenting to them we need to rethink how we do that So we always talk about the voice and how they present themselves even from the way they dress as they go they represent themselves and the scientific part of it also after the interpreter data we also talk a lot about what is the limitation of your conclusion and result Right because you have to put it in context to try and see So Ryan how was your experience working with BB and you know all these mentors that you had how was this I understand that you spend long nights doing science and everything There were a lot of late nights and many times we stayed up like up to two or three just talking about my speech about say how I would present and this is really important sometimes the judges will really care at these science fairs about how you present Absolutely And well it's been a really positive experience and I've learned a lot I've done a lot of new things and hopefully I can continue with this kind of thing and that's why I love the science fair so much so many possibilities It's amazing really and so that leads to my next question What's next? What do you see next with BB as part of this research that you're carrying out? Let's see Well there are a lot of different possibilities Because you are in high school but you are at the same time taking college classes That's right So what do you see ahead? Well So more short term I've been thinking with expanding this project hopefully maybe looking at how to reduce the limitations of free surfer where there is a lot of learning and a lot of tools that you have to learn to effectively use it especially with the manual editing as well Or possibly getting more patients looking at more data sets since every patient matters of course Absolutely And for the long term I've been hopefully looking into getting into research as an occupation becoming pretty much a reason That's where baby comes in handy And a lot of other So it's not just a one person with Ryan or any of the other students we mentor but sometimes three or four mentor like in Ryan's case we had my husband Dr. Harry Davis we had Kalpana from the University of Hawaii we had Dr. Nick James from UH So a group of people Really a team Yeah, it's a team work of people And so let me ask you from the judging perspective how is you know you judge a lot of projects I also judge some projects occasionally But how is this experience you know for you being a researcher mentoring mentor of students how is the judging process Yeah The judging process is really to for one help the student evaluate what they're doing and for us to also as we talk to them to help them kind of enhance their curiosity and talk about this you know what if you've done it with another instead of free surfer what if you've done it with another program do you think you have gotten the same result or better why are you really doing this and so for a judge you know we learn also from the students Absolutely Yeah because like even for Ryan like while I was mentoring you know we talked the questions I would have like well how is this free surfer how are you going to help to to help give you a better output image and so you learn from the students or even have you know as a judge you come up with questions what if it's there you know what if you do this and to see how the students will interpret it too but you grow with the students also yourself because I think every year I judge every year I learn something new and the energy in the room when you judge like I always yeah there's young scientific mind helping to solve problems that haven't been solved yet it's really a terrific experience yeah so Ryan what did you learn more from the judges this year for your particular project that we're talking about today so this is the first time I was able to get past the state science fair and go to the international science fair and I well part of it was I've always been writing speeches but when I practiced for the first time at this international science fair I did terrible really I did really bad so I on the day of the judging which I had been well I had been using the speech up to the night before I decided I would ditch it so I lost my speech yeah actually in the middle of one of my judging periods I got rid of this speech and I just talked about what I knew and it ended up working a lot better wow so what's the different I guess so the main winners of this our Hawaii state science fair goes get to go to the international science fair but how is the international science fair different with respect to the the state one do you get to know a lot of more students I guess coming from all over the place yet with projects and everything how was this experience it was it was great we got to meet so many new people there were people from the world we got to meet people from Vietnam I believe Thailand a lot of different places wow and it was it was definitely a learning experience and looking at the projects that were there and I said it was kind of scary but I also noticed that there was a lot of focus on practicality right and real uses not just say developing things that maybe a few people could use but trying to find things for the population that could really help everyone I did not go this year but I've judged that the international science fair previously I've done the Phoenix I've done LA and it is about about 17 yeah 1700 students from about 80 90 countries you have there and it's amazing people from all of the world come there they're speaking in different languages but some of them have interpreters personally I've judged students from Russia and they have we try to make sense of the project the interesting thing is they do not if you have an interpreter they do not give you extra time you still have that 10 to 15 minutes a lot of time to present so it's really challenging for them as well very challenging and a lot of projects those projects you know you see companies who buy them or you know one year was there the student had a patent going on on his project and so these people solve problems and go out there and find other kids I like that ambassadors for an issue a particular issue to the world that's a wonderful experience that's a wonderful experience let me ask you so you mentioned the numbers of this international science here do you see it growing every year there are more bright minds coming up yes it's been growing by numbers every year so a small you know we have about one minute left for a conversation today time flies but Bibi just a small wrap up about the importance of the the science sphere our state international science sphere the importance of the state science sphere is that you know every kid is curious every kid wants to learn and know something there are so many problems they can solve today they can invent and so this provides a platform for the kids to come and try and so with enough support and the right support and the community and a lot of partnership we help move that kid and make it happen so we make dreams possible and for one yes and help the world to be a better place right thank you Bibi you're welcome and Ryan as an ambassador to the world for this big problem which is dementia what do you tell our audience what is your conclusion final wrap up well I really I would like for everybody to just I mean these kinds of science fairs and things are open to a lot of different people and I would really like more people to go for the opportunities that they have that has got a lot of people where they are now and these science fairs really do help a lot it might be like they take up too much time where the only people who actually really went anywhere in the science fair since we have more time than the other students and I really I hope that these opportunities continue to be given and continue to be take continue to be taken as well thank you very much you're welcome thank you Bibi for being here thank you Ryan for being here and so you've been watching young talents making way here on Frank Takawa this is the last show for this season but next season we'll be back for more and actually Brendan your Ryan's brother will be back for the opening show of the season so stay tuned