 So we are beginning our interview with Mr. Peter Monk The interviewer as usual will be William McCrae, and we are currently in Ottawa at the Mining Association of Canada So to begin could you please state your full name? I'm Peter Monk and your date of birth November in 1927 and Where exactly were you born? In Budapest, Hungary And as a young child, what did your parents do? Well, my parents were divorced When I was one year old So I had a mother and a father and I would really had parents per se and You know the war came Pretty quickly. I was 12 years old and I went to school and my father was an oil company exacter I think he worked for a shell He wasn't very prominent or competent or brilliant Person he liked a pleasant life He had a wealthy father who I think looked after him several times. He'd gone through a number of marriages And as I said, my mother Did not have a job in those days ladies didn't really work and she had a good time in life and enjoyed traveling and That's all I remember and then came a war with change ups and everything and We also had the bad luck of being Jewish and then of course Pretty soon the Germans came in and that changed everything in a very negative way so That's what all there is and then my grandfather took us all to Switzerland where I spent The bulk of the war years Until I came to Canada. Do you remember what year you moved to Switzerland? I should do I Left Hungary and moved to Switzerland in 44. Okay, so I came to Canada in 47 Still you weren't hungry for a good portion of the work I was but remember Hungary was neutral up until they were occupied by the Germans Sometimes in the spring of 44 And pretty soon after that the Germans started to commit atrocities my grandfather organized his kids except one he had to living in Canada to be taken to Switzerland and So that's where I spent the rest of the war until my uncle from Canada could come over and organize my Visa and permission to come to Canada. Okay 1947 my big luck my lucky break You moved officially to Canada officially very officially have with a visa. Yeah, right on you couldn't know this come without a visa you can swim and Then you you went to school in Canada. I went to like we did we had to redo my high school Okay, that's what my metric my semitic at Lawrence Park in 48 and then I went to U of T In the fall of 48 in what engineering SPS And I graduated in 53 Okay, and as a why why engineering? I Guess my my family pushed me okay through the wartime and And and people have been you where they're gonna end up in life, you know Every border changed and everybody got killed and I mean It's a very different world Done it is now. Yeah, it's very hard for you To put yourself in a mindset of a parent Of a kid from Hungary With a Jewish background of 1946 47 So I had no choice. I was told that and plus my uncle who brought me here Nick monk who was here my grandfather Made him come out here and he Great engineering enterprise here producing radar components Highly high precision radar component during the war So there was no doubt So it's already a bit in the family. Yeah, I wasn't exactly me saying I died to become an engineer But as a as a child or a teenager or up until you went to school for engineering Did you have any interest at all or or or or like some form of sciences as a kid or no Not really more and more in part is some good-looking girls and dating I must have been lying if I told you that I so I think at home Engineering is not the department in those ladies I wasn't given that choice. I told you. Yeah, it wasn't a single woman in my class It doesn't surprise me known in those days. No, especially an engineer question and Right after right after school, what would you say my first job was I'm an electronic so electrical engineering Within two in those days electronics and Electrical electrical mean power electronics meaning More communications So I was into electronics. I went to work for Canadian national telegraphs. It's a telegram engineer I wasn't very good. I was bored From there I went to Atlas radio, which was a big importer of radio components From the US and Germany and then I went on my own Start off clear to mm-hmm, which was in those days also a bit of a technological breakthrough because Tubes radio tubes were just about to be replaced by transistors Which of course gave a whole different approach to design of a consumer product called radio because he didn't have the heat and Nor the space So So that came claritone Which became a bit of a Canadian success story And it failed but it moved to Nova Scotia By that time it was quite a big company public Yeah, it was famous with quite a few famous people Yeah, it was a deep blackberry of the days. Yeah, exactly That's not was the Peter Peter of comparison the Armstrong they all had We just saw the other day a movie called the graduate. Yes In the background you see a Canadian and people couldn't believe that you could make a high Tech product in those days and so where you make it. So Canada Canada Because in those days Canada was more like grain or wheat or forestry or or timber or fly wood You they couldn't believe that something that sold for five six hundred dollars This is not blooming dance Maces could be a Canadian product. It just was out of the perception Yeah, and and was it kind of Revolutionary because of the bit of it uses also we were new we were not I've seen Victor We were not, you know, the general electric. So, you know, when you're starting from a basement You got a bit more freedom than your six generation engineer in the radio department of general electric Yeah, especially with your design your designs were that was all the designs were made possible by the change And the other sonic composition But that was not much about mining No Funny enough, I thought of my background and yours. Yeah, I have One of the curators of the museum. He's the communications curator. He asked me He was just like oh, I hear you're interviewing Peter Monk and he wanted to declare those sorry a bit of infirmary Yeah, yeah, cuz he he loves that all that stuff, but but after that Then you move more into the hotel and restoration. Yes, well, I got fired Me and David go more because we moved from tell it from from stereo was an i-fi we moved to Nova Scotia They were taken by government grants picked a county was under water And the federal government was just at that time feeling its weight Way to how to help federally in underdeveloped or our hard hit areas economically picked a county was shipbuilding and coal mining Both were wiped out after the boom years of the war and So they were very keen plus a very influential person in Nova Scotia and throughout Canada was Frank Sobie For so best stores who accumulated the biggest wealth in picked a county and So he was very close to the cabinet the government of mr. Stanfield Who had a very strong? influence in Ottawa, and so we were attracted by a great offer to move our whole operation furniture making electronics into an integrated operation in New Glasgow Mr. County and then we defaulted in the bond payments because we had strikes and we have all kinds of issues I Got fired and to get a year salary at a sign an agreement not to compete with the promise So I had to look for something new and we have a small investment They were more now in the Pacific. I'm from there. We turned that We became quite good in business when you start with the basement you had to become efficient, yeah, you really have to I mean, you know, you can always delegate the the technological part to engineers better than you I came to business though the maneuvering of the governments and the grants and the finances it became more us and became more our specialty and To apply that to the hotel industry and we done quite well and so We built up a great hotel group starting from Fiji Hong Kong Australia and New Zealand Called Southern Pacific Hotel Corporation Which we sold out because I let my children and I did not want to go through what I've gone through Not to have a proper home and come to Canada when they're Ready to go to college. I want to grow up in Canada and have an infrastructure of France and Contacts yeah, I like it at home here. Yeah, and I had five kids. So I came back sold out and came back with the money we made and started Moved into national resources Or was our first investment quickly got wiped out in oil What you are 79 Okay Everybody said over we go to a hundred bucks. They didn't we lost kind of money And then I moved quickly into mining, which was very related Got a good board. All right some good fellow and joint investors with me Canadian institutions Guardian capital Joe Rottman who started off the Rotman school afterwards and We we we got really lucky in a gold mining area We teamed up with good people along the way We got some lucky breaks and that became then the genesis of Barak Gold because you were the you're the initial founder of bear cold. So I do you invested in gold already No, I mean in Barak Which we created to be the holding company and they put the money We got from the sale of our job group and I came back We had an investment company in Toronto and it looked for natural resources Our first investment was oil and gas in Calgary We got wiped out because they go they all pass went down instead of up and then but the remaining money We said, let's go into gold and gold mining and we made our first investment in Northern Ontario Small amount and then we went on from there and the rest is history Mm-hmm, and yeah, and bearic. I mean Eric became the largest gold corporation in the entire world. So yeah quite impressive where Where were all those these gold mines? So northern you started with northern northern Ontario, Northern Ontario. What else the next one we bought a Company called camflow which for the well-known Canadian public company Which went into default on their debt Because they diversified from the malarctic region in Quebec in Val d'Or and the Ontario Quebec border Which they had a great mine the camflow mine and they diversified from there into coal oil and Thermal energy all of which collapsed. It couldn't pay back their bank The bank came to us and said we need somebody to rescue the company We need I think a hundred million equity which we put up The bank gave us control The company and then we merged camflow into barrack and we ended up With a fabulous team of camflow mining executives Bob Smith And hill dr. Miko all second third generation Canadian miners totally experienced Absolutely competent in their field outstanding. I would say in metallurgy in geology in geotechnology in in mining per se mining management and I really my job was really to run the business part and we really formed a very successful cooperation Between the miners who I totally trusted and the miners who trusted me with business and that really was the Foundation of barrack success. So we merged barrack and camflow Called this camflow I've called it very gold maybe and then they bought a Big Texas the oil companies were falling on hard time They in a good days an oil went from nine dollars to 60 or 70 they diversified and they went to mining Now they had to tighten the belt. So they kept on selling the mines We bought all the Texas mining as Texaco mining assets in white planes and Bob Smith within bringing his Canadian technology From a big company or company management, which was bureaucratic large didn't know damn thing about mining Just every time they bought a mine double the production have the overhead and Became a bit of a stock market darling once your stock market Attraction you had the currency to buy more things. So we bought Homestake which was one of the oldest American gold companies with deposits in California, Nevada Then we bought gold strike the the mineral deposits in the middle of Nevada And then we bought like minerals and we did some 14 acquisitions Because with each of the acquisition our stock went up stock gave us a currency and Bob kept on exercise Bob Smith our president exercised his magic with a great team of minors but the Canadian Knowledge know how morality management competence geological competence not logical know how into bear and all the mines and in every single time in every single way They improve the performance which the market loved and we became within ten years the most comfortable gold mining company world far from being the biggest and then we did two big acquisitions One was Lakeshore lack minerals the old Lakeshore lack mineral mines In Ontario who at that time controlled the Latin American big copper and gold belt in Argentina called I did Elindio That is a so Harry York's Lakeshore that became Swiss sunny through his broker son-in-law Peter Allen black minerals and then we did our biggest acquisition that made us the biggest in the world Which was the combined placer dome mines Got less at all Which was by far the Canadian the Canada's largest Cold mining operation. I think probably that time third in the world and once we bought them Which at that time was the largest Canadian mining acquisition. We became the world's biggest And you you acquired many companies in many mines Other than gold whether other minerals yes, we had copper. Yeah, in fact Where I screwed up at the end Which caused now all the problems? At the time and gold price collapsed two years ago We try to buy a company called Freeport That also had gold so it would have been a perfect combination We had many meetings and discussions with their top Fairholders and some are others always did not work out So we bought another mining company copper mining company to expand Our our we didn't want to have all our eggs in one basket There's a danger to that my after our mining depends on the commodity price commodity by definition It's cyclical. So you want to even out the cycle? When we have a company of 50 billion dollar market cap, I mean it was a monster of a company Two three years ago, I think the third or fourth largest outside the bank banks Just in 25 years, so it was a good stuff. And so we made this big acquisition of Let's say I guess the marketing company called equinox that had nothing but copper in Saudi Arabia in Tanzania And by that Placer dome already has some copper. So we had we were in copper in Chile So we created a copper division and in fact the equinox acquisition instead of what we usually done using our shares to buy because The debt market interest rates went down from 10 to 7 to 6 to 5 When we borrowed the money for the whole acquisition, which was I think seven or seven nine billion Our bankers kept on saying why would you use your equity? We can give you the money tomorrow You just sell bonds globally in America and Canada huge demand for gold bonds gold was selling at 1600 or 1700 And we'll give you money at 3% and we were paying at that time our profits were I guess four four 9 billion after full tax So if you can borrow money and write the 3% off taxation the real cost to use only 2% So I'm going to borrow a 2% if you can make money 2% In a couple business, you should have bought the company Who thought the copper with gold and all the commodities will go from cover went from 5 to 3 This pipes out all your profitability and cash flow. So That's where we made a mistake, but you know You can't Look back and you can't build a company from zero to a global leader particularly not in Canada, which is somehow rather not Create doesn't create many global leaders I don't know why because we are I think the best in so many areas We certainly are recognized for our ethics our integrity our honesty The competence of our banking the reliability of our currency but somehow rather You know, there's no teller whether it's aabro or whether it's Every time when we Creating some a global genius. I mean the goddamn Dutch a tiny little country They got six glove there the Phillips light bulbs and they wherever you look the British the Swiss I mean you look at that God them chocolate business You look at a pharmaceutical business and they're seven million Swiss metal business. I'm looking about the killer. Yeah, they're not Yeah, I mean they just I don't know even blackberry who got six. I thought it's just unbelievable It's just I don't know and nobody's better than we are. I mean, I maybe I'm the president I'll keep on making speeches about that But somehow or other there's you know, even seagrams. I mean we dominated the whisky business, but in anything Doesn't matter what happens Olympia York. I mean they were I don't know if you remember that in real estate Was it the right ones the biggest backdrops in Canada the two like my brothers only canary wharf They owned everything. They owned trials. I can they have the family and they had the shopping malls. They own canary wharf Can like fairview, I mean this fair huge huge leading global companies I'm not complaining. We'll get it back, but yeah That's where we are. Yeah, okay A bit of a change of subject here would if I were to ask you Who was your greatest mentor? Would you have one and who would that be? I did but would mean much to you Because it was in claritone days when I was my at the very beginning of my independent business career I mean the world public was such an unheard of thing coming from Europe. I mean after the war There were immigrants like me Taking a stock of an unknown product called claritone and going to try to stock exchange. I mean I couldn't I had a man Who was one of her main various established American? electronic components supplier Who had a chairman by the name of Monty Shapiro in New York? He was a chairman of general instruments, which was a huge electronic American company and they supplied me with a very key Transistorized component that was very unknown Rogers gave me the tubes. That's how Todd and I became friendly precise told you We quickly switched from tubes because we just hit the radio business at a transition point And after 50 years of radio tubes and vacuum tubes They switched to transistors and by the way in the electronic world was claritone one of the first to use Transistors the first the first. Okay, that's another key to your success. Okay So I would call multi with an enormous influence on me in mining and mining Well, it was Bob Smith. Yeah, you had mentioned. I mean he was my God my partner my confidant my the person I spoke for every day five times I was very lucky. I I created some excellent relationships from my school days from claritone My lawyers my bankers You know, I guess I never Harden anybody I tried to share the wealth I I have certain principles, but stock options and having everybody in the company when you You know, the owners get wealthy that everybody should share that wealth and be created From the switchboard on millionaires when the stock was split every year twice three times back in 80s and 90s And very close consistently the best performing stock and all those people Operated an options and for the joy to see Those guys who work their guts out Get the benefit of the goodies And so when I moved from claritone to barrack, I had with me a bunch of real loyal people Decent who supported me and helped me And did you join any Organizations throughout your career organizations not a big means. No, I'm not a bigger I didn't like going to conventions not to mining conventions, not electronic conventions not to restate, you know, I own TriZak I sold some in my company and sold some Breakshifts I just thought to be that dependent and gold is not healthy So I had a few original shareholders who's interest I had to work for and including my own and So I diversified sometimes in the middle of the bike program into real estate Real estate one day and one of it was TriZak was a leading Canadian real estate company and Bromphons and the right ones owned it. It was in the hand of the bank And so we put up a large amount of money like a half a billion cash And we converted the international debt structure into shares Which they said they were ready to do with somebody credible putting up equity. So I Carried with me all the sort of people who Accountants bankers But it's much an association it was a matter of applying sort of where my business philosophies of You know doing it the right way of focusing of Sharing the risks of you know, I'm not trying to be greedy of other things that I applied when I Spend my first two thousand dollars In a curtain set When I built the first fund a basement, I mean, you know, it just seemed to work then and it worked ever since The scale may be different, but the principles remained the same I'd never went to a business school. Yeah, true So you didn't see you never saw an interest or a need really in joining in an organization I mean, I wasn't I wasn't the best electronic engineering claritone We had people ten times smarter than me and in school. I didn't even take a Transistors yet. It was we were still all vacuum tube in the in the 40s and 50s So what had the dino, but they were done and we could hire them. They were great people and you gave my platform How would I compete with that? Knowledge and a bit of knowledge is sometimes very Wonderful. Yeah. Yeah, and the mining. I mean that really for me to go to mind would have been dangerous I mean I they always invited me and I cut ribbons Also in the hotel business. I mean, how did I You know, I applied the business principles I probably provided some leadership to people who believe in me or believe in the common objective of winning and being Number one if you can get there and it's fun and get the rewards fairly shared And I mean, I know you were a busy man, but with any social activities With work or outside of work that Go to social activities listen my my of course, I mean I I love my friends and I love my family and I love skiing And I love my island up north and all the things normal Canadians like and do But having said that I'm I was quite focused. I was working hard I also like to take off my long weekends on my island. I had an island 50 years in Georgia Bay I never missed the summer I skied 71 consecutive seasons very few people have ever done that. I never missed 71 years when I gave up two years ago downhill What what's what's the best mountain you've ever skied? Canadian mountain holidays the helicopter skiing in Alberta and I will stalk and I'll boost you should be I've done some really exciting stuff In Greenland in Iceland with crazy helicopter tours in France. I did the ground tour From somebody now we did some and my wife is a top top top skier So we met skiing Might 40 odd years our kids are every one of them My son Anthony was at Queens captain of the ski team my daughter Nina the Smith College captain of ski team But our Natalie was captain of her ski team because they all grew up following their mother at age two three four Empowering rocks and between trees Good stuff. Yeah, I'm a huge skier. Are you that's yeah, that's why there's no sport like it. I love it There's no sport rush again. Oh, and you wait until you got kids your family your friends It ties you together. Oh There's nothing like it a football game So, you know an hour and you run around in the dust But I mean to be exposed to mountains Yeah between the sky and the snow and to see the landscape. I would like to show you photographs They could be all postcards. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah for sure right now I Mean you've done a lot of different jobs and a lot of different settings But how present and or absent were women in the workplace? Or if so, what were or their role in? My relationship to women or you talk about no, no professionally like In the have you seen that was not one of my issues now, and I know it's a modern I see it from my children and I know that in mandating women on boards Engineering is not nor mining was not traditionally the professionals where women would have excelled Nor would women be very interested. I mean, they were a hundred other fields like, you know in my Foundation is and I philanthropic activity, you know, I'm You know, I did you know, I spent decades and I am the cardiac center in the hospital I funded it and I provided the initial funding and I still do of course enormous matter women in university I I Gave the money for the monk global school of the U of T where I spent five years and I graduated from And among center It's all women but in mining Not so much. Not so much. We now in the last few years I see a quite a few And they're very good, but on the mines. It's not a kind of job that attracts women So I'm it's not a subject. Yeah, no, yeah, not not many. No, no, really And I'm such I just not an issue and can you talk a bit about a bit more about your philanthropic work? Well, sure. I mean I I Probably you you heard it or you read it. I I Have an enormous debt to be repaid to to to to our country and I have to also be in love with the country, so Hey, I love it and and you love something whether it's a woman or a Sports you spend time or money on it And I love the country of both. Yeah, and be I in contrast to you most likely or my friends, I mean I I I My family did not contribute Building this country your family probably has And Bob Smith's Grandfather died and my partner David Gilmour's grandfather and father risked his life for this country We got the benefits We didn't pay the price And I think that yet, you know, we You guys the country is so magnificent and that's why I can't is kinda I Mean you guys willingly share you do not say hey, hold on you came from Now I'm Europe. What the hell did your family do? You know, we are we are privileged. It's the opposite. I mean look I got the highest Definition out of Canada I Never been I've never been excluded from anywhere. I never felt socially or or academically or commercially or business-wise anything but Total full acceptance and inclusiveness Based on the contribution I can make as a human being not What my father and grandfather was it's a country where they don't ask you where you come from they ask you where you're going Yeah And so I have a huge obligation and so very early I said to my children Every single Christmas and we got together that you know, I'm an entrepreneur now and you know, I may die As a very wealthy man or I may be out of And do for you is what my parents have done for me Give you a set of values teach you what Human relations integrity honesty represents on how important they are And give you the freedom and the ability by providing you with an education to choose What you'd like to do would you like to be a carpenter? Be an excellent carpenter. You might be a ski guide I got very many friends who whose kids said hey, we don't want to have this rat race in Bay Street I'll give us a break who needs that we'll go out and get settled in rubber stock and become a guide and Ski and I respect that and that should be a choice for the kids And I don't want to screw them up by saying, you know, I'm worth a hundred million bucks and each of you will get What kind of a joy? Where is the sense of achievement money is just a symbolism It's a token of what we created the society to recognize your success What else do you know? But I'm breaking it in order of Canada. I mean, you know, you can get all the kind of for being a good fisherman or a great teacher Money is some reward given in the commercial field To me for me to hand that 20 million over to my kid who may be a drug addict or Maybe a bit of an asshole You know, it doesn't do much for the kid doesn't do much for me It's much better to say that you know I'll give you the education. I'll give you the set of values. I'll give you Everything to tell you what made me happy What made me successful and what made me a very satisfied human being when I finally go to my grave That's what life is all about Whether I end up with ten million dollars one million dollars hundred thousand dollars or hundred million dollars It's not really important there for the money that I make should really go back to where the money came from which is society Particularly in my case, which I said to you earlier. I have this enormous feeling of debt And you know, it's absolutely normal that when you Go through life and your early period when you really are dependent on other people because you haven't yet developed yourself confidence The people who contains those Assorts where you only get Things from at one point. I don't care. What kind of human being you are at one point you say, hey Times come for me to pay back If I got that much from you Some people come to the conclusion earlier. Some people come to this later But at one point you have a normal desire to reciprocate. I got so much I mean my grandfather aged 90 couldn't speak English who looked after them the Toronto hospital why why There's no country where I mean, it's just my father came here my mother came here. They all buried in the Mount Pleasant My father was Jewish in the Jewish cemetery. I mean, I mean they didn't think they just They were given everything by your country security comfort inclusiveness a home free healthcare education for their kids Well, I made it It's not time for me To repay the country. So to me my foundation became really of how important and because I believe in Focus, I just don't think that you achieve much in life With a limited capabilities, we all have unless you focus that capability on the issues that are of Prime importance to you. I you prioritize your objectives The same thing was true for philanthropy and that's why I gave a large amount of money to the hospital And you see the Peter Munkardiac Center that in Toronto today is the number one character today Has the most complex cases as the largest cases heart transplants about transplants in every respect other complex cases get revert there We have huge research facilities it's a The scholastic field I've done that for the University of Toronto When we established the monks rule of global affairs and then I was global affairs. Yeah, I'm blurs it Yeah, so And then we have a third foundation Which is public affairs, so we support some 40 40 think tanks from artifacts to Vancouver Where intellectuals academics decide to do Studies that can be helpful for Canada to form its governmental or opposition policies And they are think tanks and they we have a board board they apply to it. We also have an institution called among debates Check it on your website Superb every six month Among debates out in Toronto Thousands of people it's all across the world in television every debate is published the book is published afterwards We've done doesn't solve them About any every every debate the different subject last one was about should Russia be Inclusively handled or should be punished in the last one but we had one on the importance of religion We had once on the importance of US Canadian relations. We had once on Europe. Thanks So they bring in people like Kissinger like Tony Blair Watch it. I will I love the bit. It's every you. Yeah, it's fun. We are a best in Canada I hate to say that. Yeah, they they just been announced that on September 25th among debates will host the leadership debates and economics between Harper Tudor and and the market and That's not a thing for a private and that was funded by me I'll look into that. Yeah, please. I will I won't debates September 25th Go on to your web. I will I will I know. Yeah, I know you don't have a you got time Okay, I'll finish with two questions. Thank you. And this one's I guess it could be tough, but I can divide it in two What what is your proudest moment in life and I can divide it we could go What is your proudest moment in life and then what is your proudest moment professionally or proudest my proudest moment in life? I think Quite a few when I did the bugger boots with all my kids and we were so good We're dubbed the helicopter that the bugger booth CMH had us a picture taken as a helicopter left and This whole huge valley I wish I could show you a picture They were our guide my swisky guide who I invited as a guest My wife and the five kids So so and they were entirely the monk family and I was either 80 or seven to nine at that time They all just guess that's it see it. See it. I'm Canadian modern CMH Yes, and So from a first achievement point a few that made me great Really proud But I was given the highest order of Canada, I mean also I got the first one companion I got a coat I am and they're only 300 of them living and I couldn't believe that Well, I got many since then honorary degrees, but when I got that letter in February From the U of T that I'll be given I could I could barely pass And it's not because my English wasn't good. I could use that. It's an excuse. That'd be BS The reality was that I was a smart enough or I wasn't This isn't enough or whatever. I wasn't I didn't manage I got my degree But to be asked at the University of Toronto to get an honorary degree doctorate I Remember crying and I don't cry very often the last moment was when I Think we became In 2012 we announced our profits for the year before After having paid full tax the zero government support of rent. So we're not bombardier or we're not one of these companies that Continued rely on a government. We never got a dollar. We showed the highest Aftertax profit The commercial activity we showed four and a half billion dollars after tax And I created it I started it that I thought So those were probably the four highlights over the last 30 years which made me Happy and proud Good answers. Thank you. Thank you. And so we'll finish with one last question probably my favorite if you were to speak to someone much younger or Students or someone like that what would be the most important life lesson or a piece of advice you could give them? I guess I guess I'm not presumed you're asking me advice how to become successful Successful or or happy and successful That's a better question You can't you can't you can't happy success was a much better Because you can be successful in business and you can I'm a billionaire by trading shares or speculating Don't know what you contribute to to yourself and you speculate and I mean I got a somebody I know quite well He's very famous and who made a lot of billions of dollars And his name is George Soros and he broke the Bank of England. Well, it's not much different And he was brilliant. I mean to better get billions against the pound and the panko of George Soros All the richest man in America, but he broke the Bank of England Soros S. O. R. O. S. Check it on your Google George Soros He's known to broke in the Bank of England when the British pound collapsed some 20 years ago That's one way to make money But but that's no different than you go to casino and you put Let's say you rich and you put a hundred thousand dollars if they were to lie you on the number and number comes out I mean he could have been right could have been wrong So money per se is only Really contributes to your sense of who you are the sense of creating that inner self confidence that makes you happy I Yes, I fulfilled your being if you look at money as a reward of your achievement It's an acknowledgement like the order of Canada. What the hell is all the kind of worth? I got a buck for it in the street corner, right? But it's it represents an Exceptional achievement, you know what it is that's how you got to look at money and What matters to you is your achievement the set of achievements doesn't make you happy and you got to get that in your mind That you got to focus on something where and I don't care if you are a great Carpenter or a great Fisherman or a great creator or just a plane business man. This is really what I am. I mean, I'm not a minor I I didn't become it because gold minor because I'm a best minor. I didn't even go to mining school As I told you earlier. I didn't go to a mining association. Mm-hmm. I want to know about geology yet what I've done so and And so a you got to look at money purely as a result and as a symbolism of your achievement whatever field medical Scientific business and then the second part of that Which is equally important that after you did get your reward Which is money in our society for having excelled in the field you prioritized or your chosen Then what do you do with the money? It's not enough to make it What really makes you a fulfilled human being and you reach 85 and 88 which I am Is to look at the second side and say I made it But I didn't just hoard it. I just didn't put into Diamonds I Created schools. I created public debates. I Raised the awareness you shared of Canadian intellectuals. I shared it So what you do with it and the totality of that I think if you do the achievement part well and you do The second part well what you do with the money I think that then you can go lean back at the end of your life and say wow, you know, I think I've done it Can do better in life than that On the smoke, thank you very much. Thank you for your time. My pleasure