 In Cross River State the issue of zoning causes division among stakeholders as 2023 gubernatorial elections draw near and the Independent National Electoral Commission INEC says they might have to postpone the 2023 elections if President Mohammed Abdel Buhari fails to sign the Rewalked Electoral Amendment Act bill by Tuesday. This is Plus Politics. I am Mary-Anna Cole. The buildup to the governorship race in Cross River State is generating diverse interests among stakeholders across party lines. This is in view of the realignment of interests probably caused by the defection of politicians between political parties. The all-progressive Congress APC seems to have resolved the controversy about its zoning agreement as the state governor Ben Ayadeh stated that the rotational principle in the state would be retained. On the part of the People's Democratic Party PDP its state chairman Venesha Sikkim disclosed that the party will decide on where to zone its governorship ticket to at the appropriate time. In addition, stakeholders in Cross River State have published the Calabar Declaration advocating for power to return to the southern part of the state. Joining us to discuss this is the all-progressive Congress chairman in the state. Thank you very much Mr. Abdel Buhari for joining us. Thank you very much my pleasure. Good evening Nigerians. All right also to be joining us later will be the People's Democratic Party state chairman Mr. Venesha Sikkim. But I'm going to start with you Mr. Abdel Buhari. Let us look at the issue because of course you're the party chairman and you are the ruling party in Cross River State. We have heard that the governor has said that the zoning and the rotational government will stand. Is this the position of every single person within the APC or are there people who are against it? Thank you. To answer your question directly congruity of opinion does not exist in human life. When a question is asked in a gathering of about 10 is everybody in support of this you will find at least a dissenting voice. So to say whether everybody in Cross River State agrees with the issue of zoning as postulated by His Excellency and several opinion leaders in Cross River State. I will only answer you by saying that majority of Cross Riverians are in agreement with that position. I sit down here as Alphonsus Ogaeba Esquire. Not first as a decision of the party yet but as Alphonsus Ogaeba Esquire I believe in zoning because I am a product of zoning and because my whole political life from 1999 when this republic started zoning was an integral part of the party where I belong and zoning also exists in the party where I am now. So to say and to answer your question majority of Cross Riverians are in agreement with the position of the governor for power to rotate among the three senatorial districts and for 2023 that position that power should go to the south stands very popular and acceptable by almost all except the few who may have their good reasons based on perhaps their own ambition too. A lot of people who are saying that the APC is towing the line of zoning because they want to retain the seat of the governor being that recently the governor moved from the PDP to the APC and of course he does not want to lose that power that he has over you know the governorship seat and of course the power that he has in the state being that the state is led by the APC as we speak. Is there any truth to that? The decision of the governor calls only a reflection of who the governor is, a man of integrity, a man of fidelity. I recall in 2019 I was among the team of his excellency that went before the southern senatorial district leaders called the Seven Alive Movement. We had that meeting in Haikief, Etienne, Asukua, Ekpaion house. The who is who in the politics across the state from the south across party line gathered and the governor made a statement that in his own view he is here before the southern senatorial district to ask for their support to enable him complete his remaining four years tenure so that at the end of 2023 power will return back to the south. Knowing that in 1999 his excellency Donald Yook was governor till 2007 and in 2007 to 2015 his excellency Senator Leah LeMocchi was governor and now that he has been governor from 2015 to expire in 2023 power ordinary should return to where it starts. To him that is an ordinary natural free flow because it is not just about rotation. The consideration of a senatorial district which has waited for 16 years should know that after 16 years power will come to my district. To us what that has achieved is that it has kept political harmony across the state. It has reduced social and political tension. It has reduced financial recklessness because you do not need to jump into the context when you know that a time for you will come. Like people were saying that this thing can start from the nuts knowing that everybody has had it and somebody asked me you are what person the governor likes so much is stood by you to become state chairman of party don't you think is an opportunity for you to accept that I can start from you okay I say if there's anything I have learned from the governor in addition to my natural in it is not to be greedy it's not to be selfish I would not accept even if the governorship ticket is thrown on me the natural thing is I should go back to the south and I think that is the position that is popular it has to do with the fidelity of the governor and not setting sentimental interest or political underlining as you have just started okay well we're being joined by the PDP state chairman in Kosovo Mr. Venashasek and Mr. Kim thank you very much for joining us Mr. Kim can you hear me great well I'd like to hear from the PDP on the issue of zoning being that there's been some a lot of people within the party in fact the party has been divided between two different people on the issue of zoning where does the PDP in Kosovo state stand as to the power shift come 2023 is zoning on the table or is it to be jettisoned as some politicians within the party have said I'm sorry hello I'm hearing very well but I think that from here you say things like zoning and whether it's on the table yes yes all of everything is on the table but it remains that we have not been practicing zoning in that sense in which you are there when we are starting we must basically put an end to this before and that's not what we're doing but again it's something to be jettisoned Mr. Kim I think that we're having connection issues with you can you can you again say what you just said you're saying that you have not necessarily practiced zoning in the sense that we are looking at it from what sense do you think that we're looking at it from and what kind of zoning has the PDP in Kosovo state been practicing that who practices it well I'm asking you said you're not practicing zoning or rather you're not looking at zoning the way we're looking at it so I'm asking what type of zoning has the PDP in Kosovo been doing yeah yeah what we what we have been doing is that after every election when a candidate images from a particular zone we eliminate that zone for the next election that's how we arrived at the point where we were able to do each zone for eight years to where we are I think that if you work for us so there is there shouldn't be any apprehension about whether we are now throwing away zoning or not so that sense in which we applied zoning we never start now at any point and say uh yeah this time when he said he's going to the south the next time he's going to central and then the last time he came to the north no that's not what happened Donald won and defeated Tanoa Gabi in the fair and pre-primary went ahead in the elections he served two terms to him okay contested with uh water energy who was dedicated to Donald you come from the north he defeated him and he became and there was only the north left so it was only fact to say okay the north there was no problem for anybody else with the north so that that's the sense in which I mean that we have been practicing zoning so if for instance we go for the next round and a candidate emerges from the south or maybe from central because the north is actually not in the race we cannot say okay that south or north or central that took it this time has been eliminated we were going for the next round then they will be choose two to contest if they contest and one again with that one is eliminated then there will remain only one and then they'll be lonely for anybody to contest with them so at the point it's this and sense in which we put this zoning out there we are going to disenfranchise any but on the basis of so-called zoning is not a sense in which we understand it but everybody can practice it the way that he understands all right you were quoted to say that zoning all right that governor I add a apparently because the governor has taken a position on the issue of zoning and he's saying that it needs to ticket needs to go to the south you were quoted to say that his position was unrealistic and he was not being realistic with the issue of zoning as opposed to what you have just said to me that you know whoever wins is practically eliminated and that's how the turns are being taken but this is as this is being opposed by so many people and this has led to the calabar declaration where they're saying parties who are not going to field candidates from the south will not get any bulk votes what's your reaction to that honestly I'm struggling to hear you but did you hear me when I said what I said about the calabar declaration the fact that these people have said or they've come to an agreement and these are people who are from the southern senatorial districts most especially politicians they're saying a bulk vote will not be given to a political party who does not field a candidate from the southern senatorial district I'm not in APC I don't know whether you're talking about APC I'm talking about the calabar declaration these are people from the southern senatorial districts whether APC or PDP people of calabar are entitled to agitate for what they want agitate for their interests and they are entitled to that absolutely it's democratic even the people from the north where here they come from are entitled to agitate if they want now when the delegates are approaching that it remains for them to be influenced by those agitations or the sense in which they are preaching their equity or whatever you call it now now you cannot understand like what the governor said I can imperil pronounce from the beginning that you have zoned to the south thereby criticizing everyone who may have had an interest to contest that is the antithesis of democracy people should have a right to choose they can even decide to choose from where the president governor comes from because it's democracy it has happened somewhere else where in Nigeria and nothing says it can happen anywhere else I don't understand this hanging on to these chains of zoning democracy it doesn't work that way interesting now there are also people who have said that most the APC the PDP are taking these stands and the different stands that you your parties are taking is because of selfish reasons and not necessarily in a democratic way that would benefit the average crush variant that's not me speaking but let me push you first missy came before I go back to miss deba you have said or people have quoted to say that have been quoted to say that the reason why the PDP is taking this stand is because there is a certain candidate that they want to favor within the party no absolutely no that's not correct the position I have consistently advocated on this to the state executive is that we will provide a level playing field for everybody who wants to aspire and who wants to contest and that is not only for the governorship election that goes for all elective positions that is our position except until certain time that like I said if we have to fight the guns of a party beside that we can formulate an alternative strategy that could win us election fine and good but through our 22 or so year history through the three cycles of elections we have had we have always contested except the last one when only the northern central district was left that is our history you can go to the records and check it so I don't know why we are suddenly trying to change the rules of the game maybe because we are afraid of a certain candidate in the race but I don't see why we should be on unnecessarily a certain candidate that would be more who I mean I'm trying to understand are you trying to say that there are candidates within the southern central district that are not good enough to run the state or is there a very special person within the party that everyone should be afraid of I'm saying that the electorate would decide on the basis of whatever criteria they choose to elect in a candidate for the party as swag bearer the court buffers means that we are not challenging this one we talk about every other election because this goes for all elections we have people who are serving five times in the national assembly three times in the national assembly all these issues are subject to zoning but they conveniently only with respect to the entrepreneurship Mr Kemai you're still there I'm going to throw this back to the APC state chairman Mr. Eba you're still there let's throw back this to you you've heard everything that the PDP state chairman has said concerning the party that the governor is acting like an emperor and deciding to dictate what should be the modus operandi in picking who should run as governor across boards it is unfortunate when an adult goes besieged by expressing his verbal dissent who is acting like an emperor anyway it's not surprising because um Venatius he came was bought for a price to come and spew such kind of gibberish on national television you're making allegations that I do not have proof to weigh you in the room where he was bought for a price and what price I do not know why you should call a governor who only wanted to rely and stand by what he said in 2019 to be called an emperor if there's any emperor is the governor that bought him for a price from river state and he should know that very well but to the question of what we are saying section seven of the PDP constitution is very clear on the issue of zoning article 21 roman figure four of the pc constitution is clear on zoning section 14 subsection three of the constitution of Nigeria is clear on issue of federal character my dear sister you can only place something on something and that is when it will stand if you come by the sentiments that does not hold water you are bound to give this kind of falsity and fantastical issues like uh the young man has explained in 2014 2015 in cross university PDP agreed on issue of zoning that was because the other two senatorial districts had previously produced governors for the state and you're speaking because you used to be a member of the PDP I was a member of the PDP great and I cannot sit down on national television and tell the kind of lies that that man is saying but it's it's not surprising because when you are lacking in character that is what you do just do not try to attack his personality and this attacking he called my governor an emperor a man without character should not sit on national television and call a governor an emperor because we know who the emperor is in this country and that is governor wiki so you should not sit on national television and call my governor well governor wiki the last time I checked governor wiki is the governor of river state and not the governor of cross river this man that I don't know this is the man that I think I think I want hold on hold on mr. ever just hold on hold on mr. ever let me bring in the national because you're making claims that uh go ahead go ahead misty came I'd like to hear from venacious uh because you've made an allegation that the governor of another state is controlling the PDP in cross river yeah you don't you don't you don't know anything about about running a political party what position have you ever heard no no no misty came hold on I need you to respond no no no attacking hold on I need you to respond to those claims can you hear me I want to ask again he's saying misty came can you listen to me I want to ask you the question again in case you didn't hear me he's claiming that your party is being run by the governor of another state and I find that very at that claim as furious as anything else but then I want to hear from you why a member of the apc in fact the party chairman of the apc in your stage would be presuming or making such an assumption on national tv that governor wiki is running the PDP in cross river state misty came can you hear me is that for me yes please sorry I didn't I didn't have a question I'll take it again please listen he has said that your party is being run by the governor of river state and he's saying that you have been bought for a price by that same governor I find that very disturbing but I'd like to hear from you you see I don't want to dignify such uncouth talk with any response if a governor attends an event political party event in a state that means he's running the party that's that's why I say the man does not know anything about how a party's from how they operate it they run their worship of governor worship of specialities in what they call loyalty that is not we call democracy that is why they will run away from PDP to wherever they conquer for those who stayed back in PDP where they were democrat if they could run away from PDP like he was he was my contender for this position they had to run away with the governor to go and capture another party what we have in PDP cross river state in rural democracy as we speak they don't even allow us to come out to contest elections on their platform the only platform rural elections contestations are going on is PDP in cross river because we have allowed a level playing field for everybody on test why they sit there and wait for their inferno to be checked to them when to do and where to zone what we are using with the people allowing everybody to contest so that he can get the support of party members across the state that is how democracy is around that is how democratic parties are around okay let's move away from the issue of zoning now Mr Eba this question is for you there was a youth summit that held in the state over the weekend it was a very big event but then of course it got a lot of people talking when we saw the advertorial for that event it was cross river youth summit but then many people who would have loved to attend the event saw the apc plastered all over the events venue the stage we saw people wearing dressed in uniforms with ayadeh and talking about the apc so i just want you to clarify was that an apc youth summit or was it a cross river stage youth summit please explain to us what that was yeah for me no no no it's for mr eba a ruling party can you hear me yes i can hear you when a ruling party is in the states and you have under mr eba are you still there i think we have a connection do not operate on mr eba are you still there can you hear me i can hear you very well can you hear me we lost you for a second can you hear me all right i'm going through the same question to missy came um we we saw the event i'm sure you saw the event it was a youth summit for young people obviously in the state but then there were people who were worried about the fact that it became an apc event which somewhat had made people who were not necessarily members of the apc who wanted to attend to take a step back um do you care to comment well just uh some of the misinformation and um this great school thing they are doing in the state out of desperation to sustain they are very failing but they claim that they had a cross river state youth summit when we decided to have our own event which was the flag of they now decided that what they had was an apc youth summit and that we should not have two political party events at the same time in the city of calabar because it will bring conflict it was on the basis of that they used the police to attempt to frustrate our flag up when i talk to the commission of police i made it very clear that the summit that he was claiming to be an apc uh occasion actually a bipartisan multipartisan occasion how did he become an apc summit so i'm sure that you would with dismay as they try to turn what was a cross river youth summit into suddenly becoming an apc summit but the whole idea was orchestrated to make it look like a party mentioned that they could stop udp from holding their flag of rally that was built for that day but would the commission of police had himself approved the force to create justice has been approached and reached into so you can see the desperation with which they are trying to run their failing party we are nobody we know that the people are with us and we demonstrated on that day with people's power they couldn't stop us from doing our rally and we had a massively attended successful rally and today their problem now is that it's actually going to be a weekend who was invited attended and presented class to our flaggerat today that means weekend is running cross university it's a shame well um there are people who wondered also why a governor would be at a local government congress where it was not necessarily a state primary or anything they were wondering why there was a governor at that event why why was governor wike even there in the first instance out of curiosity the election is critical to us you know you know the second turn of the party in cross university a party that has won all these major elections and only make a mistake they start to take and so and so reclaiming cross you could not do that with the past two governors you had the former governor donald juke uh senator lily mocha and other pdp stalwarts you needed a governor yes i know i know i know i know but what i'm saying why did you need a state governor at that event did you what statements were you trying to make with that state governor he had been inviting people to reverse it from across the country to commission are you not aware when did this country become the bad guy so that you cannot go to a change a political event in another state of gold i don't understand what that means interesting you were not the only one expected who were expecting of the autumn if you look at our invitations look at our our billboards and we're expecting of no attention we're expecting okay okay let me go back to mr bathe we lost him for a bit but i think he's back mr bathe can you hear me thank you very much i hope you did not bring us to listen to vena she's well you went out for a while and we're trying to get you back but i asked you a question and i want to ask that question again the event that we saw was supposed to be a cross river youth summit somewhere along the line we saw a lot of apc flyers apc flags people wearing iad a um t-shirts and and all of those things which also made people wonder people who would have wanted to be part of that event but for political reasons took a step back so i want to ask you what was the idea behind these youth summits and what were you trying to achieve at what point did it become a political rally it was cross river state youth summit okay and don't forget perhaps the one you saw was when we came live at about 3 p.m that youth summit started at about 11 o'clock where cross riverians are cross party lines excluding the pdp alone because what the pdp we have pictures and videos from that event and that's what i'm making reference to we have pictures showing the youths with pdp flags with we saw videos of trumpeters and musicians wearing the iad a t-shirt and apc logo on it so if that was a youth summit for example and i'm from apca for example and i wanted to be a part of the cross river youth summits and then i go there and it's apc all over the place why would you think i would want to step into that event it was a program meant for all youths i was in that program i was there as chairman of apc and i went there with several thousands of apc people to say thank you to the governor people from other political parties were there if you were thinking about the average cross riverian who was a young person and you were trying to reach out to them why did you need to make it at some point become an apc event i'm still asking that question why was there a need for it to become an apc event the dominant political party in cross river states so because it's the dominant political party every other party is not welcomed what is the people of the pdp the apca our labor party showed up with their own flags because it's a youth summit and you know they're also a party they feel that in the garden of every 100 youths if i need cross river state and don't forget when the governor was giving appointments what the governor was putting food on the table for people he did not just do it for apc he did it for other political parties including people in pdp so they came in their different colors to say thank you after holding that summit and what was the target of the summit to say we are saying no to the interference of some empires from some state important political cannibalism into cross river state don't forget on the third day of february pdp had a primaries which resulted in bloodshed don't forget on the fifth day of september 2020 with lost lives in cross river state on the top of pdp primary what does this have to do with the question that i'm asking you i'm sorry you're diverting to something else i'm bringing you back again i'll ask the pdp chairman is on the phone he just said that they had their state local government congress on the same day and before then they had gone to the commissioner of police and informed him that they were going to have this event at the sports club on the maritala mohammed highway but then on the day of the said events the commissioner of police says well you can't have two political events side by side meaning that your event was a purely political event for the apc please help me understand no no no at what point is this change from get it very well summit to summit that was to hold in cross river state was advertised as early as january in january even when anec had not released the timetable for political party activities so please get it very right what the commissioner of police decided to do was to foster crisis when he saw the number of banners when he saw the number of pictures of vehicles that were coming but he just told me sir that this was not a political event it was an event for cross revering youths but because your party's the dominant party that's why your flags were there right but me it was a summit of all youths in cross river exactly i am a youth and i came with over 10 000 youths from apc exactly to be part of that so how did the commissioner of police get to the get the information that there were two political events when you had just a youth summit while the pdp was having their local government congress that's one political event and another event for young people the young people political activities was dominated by apc the commissioner of police that had already given approval prior to the holding of their rally discover that calabar cannot host two political rallies in his own estimation even though it was meant to be a youth summit but i said it was heavily dominated by apc but why did the pdp choose to do their rally in calabar even when they know that they buy election flag was meant to be in apc with the pdp but i went to the multalamuhamed highway with a plan to block the highway so that delegates that were coming from the central and the northern part of cross river state will not be able to enter into the stadium i'm sorry how would they block the express when the sports club is not on the highway it's by the highway please unfortunately the sports club is by the highway is by the multalamuhamed highway it was blocked until the police intervened and came with an armored personnel carrier and they were jumping to the fence even when the place was barricaded but i'm not yet to speak for the police the police should take their action but it's a signal to the inspector general police to the chief of army staff to heads of our security agencies that these lazy people are not prepared for election all right we have you can imagine we have a rally today in ukulele if the SS cautioned them that our campaign has been on for more than one week okay there came a 50 timetable to conflict with our own campaign today in ukulele but i have been cautioning my people saying please when they come with trouble just avoid them because we are waiting for the 26th of this month don't know who which party is the party to rely on the cross party i will put them to a share because 26 is just by the corner we have to go mr eba this conversation has to continue some other time unfortunately time is not on our side apologies apologies because we have had many breaks from you because of the internet connection but we want to thank you time is not our friend vanashas became is the state chairman of the people's democratic party alfonso's eba he's the chairman for the cross river state or progressive congress thank you so much for speaking with us gentlemen unfortunately we have to go now well thank you all for staying with us we'll take a short break and when we come back we discuss how the possible refusal of president bohari to assent to the amendment amended electoral act bill they spell a later time for the elections for 2023 we'll talk about it after this break