 Alright, thank you very much for keeping it to why in the morning if you're just joining us this is Y254 TV. My name is Rob Agucco and you're just in time for the very next conversation of the day. And today it's all about understanding the 17 national values. It's all about the youth and the 17 national values. Now there's 17. Remember, 17. All these national values are very important. We may not be able to cover all of them. So I want to just pick just a few on this particular conversation. Well, to help us understand this, I'm joined by Peter Moshe. He is the deputy director from the Directorate of National Cohesion and Values from the Minister of Interior and Coordination of National Government. Karibusana Bonapita. Thank you. Hope you're well. I'm well. And thanks for finding time to join me this morning. Thank you also. Yeah, as we have this conversation, I'm sure that you also engage with us. The hashtag is one in the morning at Ram Agucco. That Y254 channel that is on Twitter. Head over to Facebook also or drop your comments on our page there. We shall sample your feedback as you continue with this conversation. Now, as we begin, Bonapita, we're talking about the national values and principles of governance that exist and that youth should follow. Let's just be able to just recapture on these things first, just in a nutshell. When you say national values, because you've had this conversation before, for those who may have joined us today and have no idea about what we are talking about, national values, before we touch on the different ones, what exactly are we talking about when we say national values, especially for the youth? He's an Inini. Yes. The youth are equal. Yes. First, let me say national values are the fundamental foundations we have that guide us as a nation and as a people in our country, Kenya. And of course, national values also, they are known to influence our attitudes, our behavior. In other words, they define us, they define our identity as Kenyans. Wow. And thirdly, I know national values, they also define how state power is exercised in terms of government relations with the people and also how people relate with each other. And it is because of these that the government is really interested in promoting national values, especially among the youth. We are coming to an electioneering period, come 2022. Yes. And when you talk about patriotism, for example, how can that youth ensure that they are patriotic? And what does it mean to be patriotic for your country? Yes. Thank you, Aguco. I know that maybe it is important to inform our youth that our national values are found in our constitution. They are found in article 10 of the constitution that's best for any reference for any Kenyan can get the constitution and refer. And there are 17 of them. And the first one is just the value that you have mentioned. That's the value of patriotism. Patriotism comes first as our national value because that is the value that it defines our commitment to our country as our people. And of course the youth have a role to play, have a major role to play in terms of promoting patriotism within our country. And there are several ways our youth and the general citizenry can be able to promote patriotism. That is especially under the youth. They are known to be the most innovative segment of our society. And therefore they can apply their skills and innovation for the advancement of our country. And if we talk about patriotism, I mean we've seen so many people. You've heard of this slogan. Yes. But it's not easy for me to say this. And I'm not a Kenyan. Does that promote patriotism? No, the latter does not. Patriotism simply requires that what can you do for your country? It's not as much as what is the government doing for you. Now, should the youth say that last one is called Jeshi and the other is called patriotism? Not only in Jeshi, there are several avenues through which the youth can promote patriotism. Remember, the youth are very talented. They can be able to participate through art, through sports. For example, they just concluded Olympic sporting activities in Tokyo, in Japan. It is our youth who brought us that kind of glory. Why do you want to be a Kenyan? I want to be a Kenyan because of our youth. They can promote patriotism even through music, through art. And several avenues that the youth have got to play their role in at least advancing the policies of this country and also in ensuring that we have a country and we are building a country that we want. We've seen even in sports, Kenyan youths go into the fields with a flag. They put on those t-shirts with the Kenyan flag. Some of them paint themselves, you know, the black, red, green colors on their skin. I think even that's a sign that you are standing in for your country. That's a sign of patriotism. All that we need to do as a nation, as a country, is to encourage our youth to sustain that kind of spirit. That's the spirit that can make us at least make this country also great. Is it possible for these youths to also ensure that that one also spreads even during times of elections? Sure. Sure, the youths have a role to play. And during an electioneering period, they are the majority. They can take the lead in ensuring that we have peaceful elections. But at least avoiding to be misused by anyone, to be misled, to be influenced in any way that is negative. And we can have a peaceful election. Of course, if we are able to convince our youths that it's part of their value system, that they have to contribute positively in ensuring that elections year in, year out, whenever we are holding them in five years, we have put mechanisms in place to ensure that we are going to hold that election without the kind of skirmishes that we see, that are characterized by involving the youths. Because it is during that time that youths are involved in violence, you know. If you go to the roads, those who are throwing stones, the youths. Yes. When you work a tile or a wash a motor, it's the youth. And how is it that we can be able to promote now national unity during this time? Because now that one is a threat to national unity. It is a threat to national unity in the sense that youths aren't able to, you know, see eye to eye. They cannot be able to interact with each other. Because during elections, now my neighbor is no longer my neighbor. Now they are from another tribe. Now they are from another. How do you promote national unity during these times? Yes. For the youth? Yes. There are several ways we can inculcate the value of national unity among our youth, of course, by enabling them to interact across the different diversities, across the tribal lines by ensuring that we are giving them the right guidance in life, in ensuring that youths embrace national unity because it creates a sense of belonging, it creates a sense of sharing. We look at challenges from a common perspective. We look at ourselves as Kenyans first before we look at ourselves as individuals coming from our respective communities and by ensuring that we make them believe that togetherness across the different diversities we are able to achieve our goals. We are able to achieve a common vision. We must build that sense of common sharing amongst our youth through, of course, encouraging them to engage in programs that cut across. But now we talk about national unity. There are two terms here that have quite caught my attention. Yes. Unity and national. There is unity that you can have as a family, family unity. There is unity that you can have as a society, societal unity. But here we talk about national unity. What exactly are we trying to talk about here with these two particular terminologies, national unity, because there is also international. Yes. Yes. National unity is basically a deliberate effort that we put in ourselves that influences us to look at each other from the different perspectives as equal as same people sharing same challenges, pursuing same goals, also pursuing a same future. Regardless of tribe and color. Yes. Regardless of all those classifications, regardless of all those diversities that normally we used to define ourselves. So it is upon us as leaders, as people who influence opinion to inculcate the same in our youths to show them, to give them guidance towards that vision whereby they will start looking at themselves across the tribal lines, across all the different classifications we have as one. It means the youths actually have the power within themselves to promote national unity. Sure. Sure. The youths have got that power because like I said, they are talented. Yeah. They are innovative. Youths, once they start engaging each other, they forget about their tribal backgrounds and the different classifications. So therefore it means it is much easier for us to work through the youths if we give them the right guidance. Yes. And if you look at the guidance that you're talking about here and I love how you're mentioning it. Youths have it all within themselves. Yes. The talent is there. And that's why everyone is talking about youth, youth, youth. Even during elections, they go for the youth because the talent is there. And it means that we are looking at that kind of power that is at the bottom, which reminds me of something called devolution. Yes. Yeah. The power that is at the bottom where the youths are has the ability to change the whole country. And devolution of power, actually sharing and devolution of power is one particular aspect that is important especially for the youth. Yes. How deep can it go? How can youths also engage in this particular aspect of devolution? Yes. Of course, the national value of sharing and devolution of power, it is important and it is there in our constitution and we have seen it. It's in application in terms of governance structures that we have at the moment. And therefore these calls for the youths to understand that system and the structure of governance so that they can be able to play a major role in terms of participating actively in projects, programs and activities that are taking place at the account level because this is a system whereby we know resources have been shared. The resources have been distributed now to the grassroots level. Yeah. And therefore the youths have the knowledge with which they can be able to also participate and make use of these resources, enable the counties also to run the programs by of course involving the youths also in such programs. That is where we find that if the youths were to be engaged at let's say at the account level then we could be seeing that the difference coming in in terms of progress, development, investments coming to the level of the counties. It is the youths who have actually that potential to transform and change the way things are done at that level. It means that the power exists. Yes. It exists. It's upon the youths from the grassroots to take advantage of it. Yes. To share it amongst themselves. Yes. To promote the beliefs that they have that take the country to the next level. Yes. And if I look at that aspect of devolution of power, for someone who may not understand what we are talking about here, how can MIMI as a youth, these are new terminology that I'm getting, devolution of power, what exactly are we talking about here? Because nowadays we are hearing so many terminologies especially in the political realm that are being thrown left right center. Yes. Devolution, sharing and devolution of power simply refers to the two levels of government. They are in terms of structure that is in a resource sharing. Yes. One and then two, the political power is shared also amongst the two levels that is at the national level and also at the county level through that political structure. Okay. And that is what it simply means. Yes. It means the youth can be able to engage themselves in this line. Within this line, for example, youths need not to be standing by and just watching. They have a chance also to lead through by participating in active elections. They can be elected to be MCAs. They can also apply for jobs at the count level to be the chief executive of SAS, the county public service board. They can apply for various jobs and also contribute actively and positively for the development of that structure of governance especially at the count levels. It's interesting because that's actually another perspective of national values, the participation of the people. Yes. Some youths have gone and said, no, in this coming election, we are not going to vote. Some are saying I have to make chalkers. Others on the other hand know who they are going to vote for and they are going to actually vote for that particular individual. If you look at on the flip side, there are those who know who they are going to vote for but when they get to the ballot, they get influenced in other ways. Participation of the people. How deep can it go for a youth? How can youths participate? Yes. That is under the value of democracy and the participation of the people. That requires that youths need to exercise their rights in terms of electioneering and ensuring that the culture of democracy is cultivated in Kenya and at the same time they need to be involved through participation of the people. It simply means they are all also an active law to play, determine that kind of leader and at the same time they can also go for active electioneering. They can vote for those very positions and we encourage that under participation of the people, there is need for them to be active or actively involved and in ensuring that we create a democratic culture that we can be able to be proud of instead of sitting back and saying, no, I'm not going to participate in elections because you are passing on the blame to someone next but in essence you have the right, you have the power. You can be able to take action. So it's not good for a youth to say that no, this time around I'm sitting it out. No. I'm sitting at home and I'm talking to you. So who is going to elect for you, that very person that you want? That you want. It simply means the youths must be actively involved. So if you don't participate, you will actually never get the results you want. No. No, that's for sure. So if you look at the structure that is coming up in these particular coming elections, I'm seeing so many youths coming up, vying for different seats. Is that also, you know, how good can that be especially for the youth? Is that also a sign that, you know, youths are coming up, that the mindset is being that the perspective of leadership in the youth, among the youth is actually changing? Sure. That should be encouraged and that's why we say a nation whose youth is founded on a strong foundation on national values, they will be able to participate in every aspect, in every sector of our society and that involvement is a positive direction that they have taken and that is encouraged. That will bring the kind of transformation that we talk about, that is brought about by inculcating and making national values a way of life. There are people who normally say that they are activists and they want to come up when they see something wrong. And the youths, when they see something wrong, they go to the streets. How can we, as youths, participate and ensure that we promote democracy in the society? As youths, at the same time, not get in bad terms with, you know, with the law and forces because we've seen so many people going on the streets, it goes and ends up in riots, what on earth, some even get killed. Yes. So what the youths need to understand is that there is need to abide by the rule of law. The rule of law is one of the national values that is very important. It simply means that you are always guided by the law. You are doing the right thing. You are looking at the law and ensuring that there is law and order. There is peace. Therefore, the youths have got a role to play also in this one because they are the most active and yet they are the most influenced, sometimes negatively. Therefore, once they are aware, they are conscious that there is the rule of law. They need to be law abiding citizens. They need to lead by example. Then that will ensure that the youths will avoid these kind of arrangements that we find which take them to their own direction. Is it because of lack of following the rule of law that during riots people get harmed? How can youths participate in activities that they want to engage in, follow the rule of law and at the same time achieve what they want to achieve? The youths, since they understand their knowledge, they can be able to read, they can be able to participate in awareness creation forums, they can be able to interpret the law and, of course, involve themselves in youth engagements, in youth groups, in awareness creation, in civic education about abiding by their role, ensuring that they maintain law and order, they participate in such activities like electioneering, without necessarily causing damage, yes. And what comes to the rule of law? Is it banned legally or according to law, someone to say that I do not want to go and vote? Should I feel like I'm breaking any law if I don't vote? It's a personal choice because that's personal liberties, but also those freedoms are allowed that if you cannot be able to participate in elections, then who is going to do it for you? Then you will continue to blame the others, push on, blame elsewhere, and yet you have the power within yourself, yes. So it is a good thing that they participate in those civic righties, yes. Those liberties are there, it's a civic duty, so it is something that we have to encourage our youth to also undertake, yes. Social media has had a very big role to play when it comes to observing the rule of law. Many have ended up on the wrong terms, on the wrong side rather, in terms of the law, some getting arrested, some getting infringing on other people's rights because of breaking the rule of law on social media. How can youths promote or promote the rule of law on social media online, regardless of these times that we are going for, because now we are going for 22 general elections, many will go to Facebook, to Twitter, the posts will come, there will be many. How can you promote the rule of law doing this time? Yes, we have the law, we have the law that governs media, and therefore it's important that the youths, before they engage in those social media activities, they need to look at the law, what the law says. The law is just one, it says you have to abide by the law and you have to refer, every action is defined in law and therefore it is important that social media is not operating out of nowhere. It is controlled also by a given legislation, so that piece of legislation which controls media must be adhered to by all the youths and any other person who is using media. They shouldn't just make any posts, talk about anyone, insult anyone in whichever way? No, an infringement on the law is just wrong, it cannot be justified in any way, yes. And that brings me to the perspective of human dignity, because many even go to social media. And they post about, let's say, a particular individual, a particular leader, and they would talk about it in ways that some feel to be inappropriate. How do you promote human dignity among the youth? Yes, the youths have a major role to play in terms of ensuring that people's liberties, people's rights, especially human dignity is upheld by ensuring that they don't do something that infringes on others' rights, by also getting involved themselves as an active segment of society, by leading by example, participating in activities that promote the dignity of others and also ensuring that they lead the way by participating in community activities, by ensuring that they have proved themselves like they can be able to assist their communities, also in terms of ensuring that they help, let's say for example the elderly, they can do activities that help the society, their communities, their neighbourhoods to be better places. Yes, that's a way of at least upholding human dignity. And we've seen so many youths not caring about others. Some are selfish for lack of a better term. Honestly, they promote selflessness. I mean their self, how do I say, selfish desires for lack of a better term. Is it possible for youth to look out for themselves, at the same time promote human dignity in a way that they are able to look out for their neighbour? Yes, they can. Of course, it starts with self and others also, but foremost it all is concerned about caring for others, ensuring that there is fairness, there is social justice, there is a way. You look at the others and you see them as having their rights and it is those rights that once you are able to recognise them, then against your own personal beliefs and rights, then you can be able to uphold human dignity, your neighbour and yourself. So you also believe that just as you are affiliated to a particular ideology, your neighbour also should be given the same respect to affiliate themselves with another ideology that doesn't necessarily have to be in alignment with what you have. No, you don't have to want that everyone acts or agrees with you in the way you see things. That is what we are talking about, human dignity, is respecting others, respect their opinion, respect their way of doing things as long as it doesn't infringe on you. You've seen it in terms of sports also. Many people are now mocking what was Arsenal. Arsenal players. I think it's even in many offices. I don't know if you have Arsenal fans in the building. I don't subscribe to that but I respect their views and their opinion. Yes, yes. Youths end up getting into fights just because they don't agree in particular ideologies. How is it that youths can be able to? From what perspective should they look at it? Well, they shouldn't be at loggerheads either at all. The youths were to understand themselves. The youths were to understand the avenues they have got. They have to understand the rights of others. They have to understand what needs to be done and how someone's action can be able to influence negatively or infringe on someone's rights. Therefore, it's a question of themselves understanding themselves, understanding their rights and understanding the ways to respect others and be able to interact in a manner that does not cause any kind of conflict. Yes, yes. Because we respect each other regardless of beliefs that we may have. We may differ but in a way we are together in this as youths. Yes, yes. We want to talk about equity. What do we mean exactly, equity? Equity simply means fairness. A fair way of sharing either resources, a fair way of working together, a fair way of taking action, a fair way of making decisions. But this is a value that requires that you look at the circumstances that someone is in. You look at the environment within which someone is operating. Then you act accordingly. If it is a question of sharing resources, you are able to let someone have resources according to their needs. Therefore, for the youth, it's a question of understanding that the value of equity requires that they are fair in whichever circumstances they are in. They face common challenges but the level at which one person is is not the same as the other person. Therefore, you tend to be fair to the other side to ensure that there is at least something that is happening at both levels that will bring you finally to a level where it's acceptable. Now for both. For this kind of youth who is watching you this morning and we are talking about equity. How should they understand it? How can they promote equity from the level that is the home level before they go even to the society? And from the community where they are and even as they go towards getting into positions of leadership? Yes, if I may take it from a family perspective, it's just a question of accepting that even themselves at a family level there are those variations. So in order to address those variations at the family level there is need to be fair in terms of what they get at a family level. When we come to the community, the same principle also applies. It applies that you must look at the needs of people first and then try to work towards at least addressing those needs. Can there be equity in leadership? Yes, there is equity in leadership in terms of ensuring that decisions that you make should be able to bring that spirit of fairness in whatever decisions that are made at the level of leadership. So you always have this feeling that there is no equity in leadership and that's why they are going to vie for some particular positions. That fairness that you are talking about isn't there. How can we promote it then in leadership? Well, leadership is about competition but the fairness will come in whereby we as the electorate, the youth as the electorate will be able to judge and say someone is going to be fair to them in this area, in this aspect. Someone is going to make decisions that will affect them in terms of fairness in distribution of resources in the way things will be done, in the way decisions will be made. Therefore, it is at that level whereby we will determine how to elect a leader that we can see will be fair to us. So let me just normally say this, that leadership is not given. It's taken. I don't know. They subscribe to that. I think I feel leadership is acquired through a fair process. Yes. That's democracy. That's democracy. So let's not vouch for leadership being taken. No, that goes against the values that we are championing. Yes. I want us to finish this conversation to wrap it up. But as you were saying, because there are so many values that we have not yet touched on, we shall find another day to yet touch on more of these values. But the ones that we have covered so far, we have talked about patriotism, national unity, we have talked about sharing and declaration of power, the rule of law, democracy, participation of the people, human rights and equity. For us to get towards the right path as the Kenyan youth. And I'm looking at the perspective of leadership yet again that youth want to be able to be given some positions to feel like they are represented. That they want to feel represented even as they vote. They want to feel represented even as they get into next year's election-eering period. They want to feel represented in terms of employment. Some lack jobs. Some are struggling from the ground. And we are talking about national unity, national values here. Yet we are talking about national values and we are talking about money. How can the youth who is watching you outside here be able to grasp all these concepts yet at the end of the day still understand that it is for my own good. It is for my own development and not only for myself but also the development of the society regardless of the challenges you are facing considering the economic times. Yes, first let me say that the youth should not sit back and wait to be given positions but they need to come together as youths, cocas, they have several channels through which youths interact especially currently nowadays. And they need to understand one thing that the foundation of a nation in advancement it is based on its innovation. It is founded on its national values. Therefore once we have our youths embracing innovation, embracing talent, nurturing and entrepreneurship and therefore basing it on a national value system the youths can be able to resolve some of the challenges that we are facing. They can be able to engage themselves in active lifestyles that can be able to transform their lives in a big way. So they don't have to wait until they are given. They don't have to wait for handouts. They don't have to wait for someone to give them something in order to influence them but they have the right and the power within themselves to come together, engage positively, engage each other and cocas and make sure that they are advancing the rights and the rights of the youths and they are able to change their states from the current state where we are talking about youths are being influenced negatively and they will move forward. It's quite interesting that you are talking about that because it was just last week that we had so many youths talking about getting into some odd forms of businesses which don't promote national values. Last week we had posed a question to our viewers there about the wash wash business whether youths can and so many youths were saying they wanted to do it. It was quite interesting on our social media page so many youths were saying that they want to get into that particular business it doesn't promote national values. It doesn't promote all these things that we are talking about here. Yes, that is because for a time we agreed that our value systems have been eroded both the general values, family values up to national level where we are talking about our national values we have faced the challenges as a society we have seen our society go through a transition we are also transforming we are also being influenced by external factors and therefore as a result we have lost our value systems but at the same time that's why we are saying we are reclaiming the same because of those low levels of value systems in us that's why you find our youths are saying there are shortcuts but what we are saying if we embrace a national value system and we make it our way of life then we don't have to approve some of those activities and actions we will find ourselves coming back on track and being proud of ourselves who we are, our country and of course we'll be doing things that advance life in a positive way Rat Tan encouraging some of those things that we are talking about The shortcuts Yes, the shortcuts Yes But people love short cuts Yes Sure Peter Moise, thank you so much for finding time to come my brother Thank you I appreciate it I was with Peter Moise, he is the deputy director from the director of national cohesion and values as always it's a pleasure We've not touched on all of them we still have more, remember there are 17 values 17 we're talking about youths and 17 values they've only touched on around 8 of them 8 We'll finish on them at a later date God willing we'll find time to have this conversation again Thank you so much for coming Thank you so much Yes Keep the hashtag going The hashtag is one in the morning at Ram Magukko and at Y254 channel on Twitter I'm sampling just a few of your feedback as we wrap this conversation up on our social media handle Remember, at Ram Magukko is my handle where you can find me, keep tweeting and keep texting Remember, it's all about understanding national values right here on Y in the morning Now, to sample a few of your feedback I'm seeing here, this is Stanley and as I'm watching you from Uttiru, yes, thank you so much Stanley I'm seeing here, national values is very important watching you together with my family here in Rungai Thank you so much I'm sure that you'll also tell us where you're watching us from Quite interesting it is I'm seeing here Dan and Asama enjoying the show Love the conversation, keep it up guys Alright I'm seeing this is Phillip Phillip and Asama, thank you for bringing these guests It's very important that youths promote national values Shortcuts are not good Alright I'm seeing Joy, Joy and Asama enjoying the show Watching you from This is, country that particular name there Shida Matamushi I'm seeing here, this is Alright, let me pass that Alright, this is Wilfred And Asama enjoying the conversation Watching you from Kino, Asada Sana Wilfred This is Agnes, Agnes also watching us Thank you so much for being part of this conversation Keep tweeting and keep texting Meanwhile, let's take a short break We'll be back in a bit But that brings us to the end of this particular conversation On understanding national values Are you aware that they are in the constitution Head over to the constitution And get to read more about that My name is Ram Maguko Thank you so much for being part of this conversation We still have more for you on one in the morning This is Y254, keep it here