 Today, I am so happy to be here with Andrea Jay Lee First of all, let me say hi to Andrea and then I'll talk about your background. Thank you so much for being here So I just want to I want to share with people about what I know about your background And then we can get in the conversation. So I am really honored to be talking with Andrea because She is a really experienced coach I mean she has been I'm seeing this from your bio, but correct me and wrong So and you've been coaching Since 2003, I mean you have right is that right and you've had a coaching business So you were really I would say one of the people that I mean for those of us who are still doing it I mean you one of you know, you have a lot of history with this So you have mentored a lot of the people that that I've looked up to that I have partnered with that I've worked with so And you have four books and you're coming out with your fifth or is this the fourth one coming out the fourth one is coming out Yeah, awesome. Yeah, I have the gray hairs to show for all of that We don't we don't need many years to have gray hairs But what I'm really I'm really want to appreciate is that you have tried different models of how Coaching works and how business works, you know, both offline and online couple years ago, you did something called wealthy thought leader, which some people here may have heard of and And now you're doing something called The that while you're doing something called power lab, which we'll talk about and you have something coming up called innovation Income through innovation, right? So we'll talk about all that, but I just want to just Just say I'm so grateful to have you here and I'm looking forward to all the insights you can share with my audience. Oh Gosh, I feel like it's exactly. I feel like you're introducing yourself. You have all of this too, you know It's really fun to be with you. And of course we have a shared Taiwanese background. That's right, you know, fun. Yeah Yeah, it's fun. Thank you for having me here. So and you're in Canada. Just right. Yes What the part of Canada on the West Coast and on one of the Gulf Islands It's actually a tiny little island with only a thousand people on it. I guess my Taiwanese roots are still with me I like to live on little islands Yeah, so I'm my closest big city that everyone would know would be Vancouver. Yeah, that's cool And but you do serve clients and students all over the world. Yes, people kind of come to your events online and things like that So I want to ask you there's so many things I want to ask you but since you are doing this income through innovation Incoming up. I want to I want you to talk about what you consider to be innovation. What is innovation? What does that mean to you? innovation is a way of looking at something freshly and so When we have thinking rats ways in which we have been Making assumptions about how a business can work or how our lives have to be or People around us like culture and advertising telling us that we should be working a certain way Anything that's counterculture and contrasting with the that prevailing story is innovation. Oh I love that. And so what have you seen as the I guess mainstream way of doing business that You like to just juxtapose And and maybe guide your clients in doing yeah, oh gosh, such a good question. So Speed is good Right, right. Yes. Fast fast fast. Yes Like hurry up and create your things and then hurry up and buy things or hurry up and make people enroll in things fast Yeah How about That you should listen to your market and when you're creating your income streams That's that's a prevailing message. And it's it's not that these prevailing messages are wrong It's just that one size doesn't fit all And so when I like to talk about innovation, it's to help people realize that Even if somebody is telling you that you absolutely must do X thing You must question it for and ask if it's right for you. So When I say the prevailing wisdom is Ask your market and create income streams at your market once I Actually think an innovative way of thinking is what what do you the creator of the income stream want? what What is something that is Spiritually satisfying to you and that can you can sustain And that isn't a should for you. Mm-hmm. Yeah Yeah, so those are the kinds of innovative thoughts that but that's what I mean totally So let's let's go in that direction then because I I'm really curious what you would think about this there are a lot of visionary or heart-based entrepreneurs who create Something that they're really excited about that they that really feeds them But Maybe they're ahead of their time or something or maybe their audience isn't big enough That they have a hard time getting enrollment for There's many reasons for that and some people maybe aren't even getting enough visibility for they're not even telling enough people about it But sometimes they are telling people about it and for whatever reason Let's say that person is having a hard time. How would you what encouragement do you have for them? So one of the main ways that I think you also espouse George and you are a great model of is to follow a process I call creating proof and Basically, it's a like to test Your idea the thing that you believe so strongly in in a nimble and inexpensive Low-risk way. Yeah, and in so doing actually helped educate the market and Hope them understand that they might want this new thing Mm-hmm. I love that and Can you give us? Can you think of your own kind of example where? You've been testing these and how do you how do you test? How do you like to test things? You know, I I feel so lucky to be able to just go to social media. I mean so many people say Like very few things are all good or all bad, right? So social media, of course It's difficult in some ways, but I think it's a very easy platform accessible to everybody. It's very Democratic, right? free And I'll post I'm curious How many of you resonate with the phrase business as unusual? or And just to be clear that businesses as unusual is the name of your upcoming book. That's right It's the current working title of the upcoming book Um, so in that way I'm testing the title of that book Um, I belong to an online business manager community I think you probably know that I'm involved in that community and they Recently have asked me to train them in coaching skills so I have this new coaching tool that is called the like it's a hiring daisy It's a daisy like a flower and it's a diagram of a daisy and it's one of my ideas This could be like a crazy idea. It could be a good idea. It could be a bad idea, you know So I'm gonna draw it quickly teach it on social media inside the group and You know show a video of it and then let's see. Let's see if I get booze and tomatoes Or if I get engagement questions good questions Yes, you bet. Yeah, that's cool. Yeah, I find that When one of my ideas isn't really The right fit for my people. I don't usually get tomatoes, but I get crickets You're like nobody says anything and then now I know oh, okay All right, this is not really exciting to my people right now and I have other ideas to try. I I think that's so beautiful to remind people like I you know How many ideas you have from like from just from nine o'clock today George? How many ideas do you think we've had? Well, I've learned to park things. So it's like I've learned that God I have so many ideas. I have to just park them and and a rhythmic way kind of just introduce them gradually Yeah So so tell so one of the things that you really value is bringing this bring the idea of nature or learning from nature and how we can Do business in them? Well business as unusual business in a more holistic way compared to the mainstream way is much more You know reductionist So what is yeah, what does it mean for you to how do you think about nature and how does that relate to how we do business? Yeah, I I love I remember watching some of your videos where you were showing like ducks and parks and Yes, I love that. Yeah, I live in a tiny place with just trees all around So I'm very inspired by nature and one of the ways I think it's helpful to think about nature to help us Think freshly about how to grow our businesses George when when in the Dominant culture when people go and buy a piece of land to build a house Oftentimes you all here, you know, well that thing is in the way. So we'll just dynamite that you know and Well, there's there's like a water situation over here. So we'll just fill that in with a bunch of stuff And I don't I don't really care where the sun is I'm gonna build my house in this corner of this piece of property and That that is a Can I say like a colonialistic? like Like power over the land way to build a home In the green movements when you have someone building an environmentally friendly home in partnership with the land Sounds much different, right? And so it's like, alright, where is the sun? Let me build To meet the sun There's a rock here, how can I let that shape the house plan Instead of fighting it use the shape of the land as assets and as a guide Similarly with income streams, I think the landscape that we're looking at is the strengths and assets of the human that is creating the business Are you an extrovert an introvert? Do you like to travel? Do you like to network? Are you do you hate to do videos? Do you love to write these are the natural? This is the natural landscape That we're building an income stream on and so I think it's such a relief to not fight against ourselves and to take this fresh concept from building a home on the land in a green way and make Environmentally friendly income streams for the humans that run them. Oh, I love that that. Yeah, the income streams fit the provider and It fits the client. Yes. Yeah, and and if and naturally There is less Hustle there's less Persuasion, you know kind of like trying to get people interested in something So no, that's that's and because the provider it's better fit for the provider. It's much more sustainable I mean, that's one of the things I you know, I in the intro to you I said, you know among those of us who are still doing this you have your you're still here and you're still thriving And I mean that says a lot it really does because I think about the people I partnered with when I first started A lot of them are not around anymore. I mean, maybe they're back in the corporate job or something like that and it's like wait, but Right. It's like that Like wow, why can't we build a business? From our soul's expression and and and continue to evolve it, which is why you said income through innovation. So How do you like to work with people Andrea? I'm really curious given that you have tried different models of coaching people of teaching I Don't know whatever you want to talk about in that regard like in terms of what have you tried and what's working really well for you now Yeah, thank you. Um, I'd love to share what works for me and share it in a way that I hope will be an eye-opener maybe to everyone who's listening I cherished relationship and It shows in my business model The majority I would say the majority of my work is still one-on-one. I Do have a group. It's an online coaching group. We don't do any teaching or training I always send people to your courses to get the training Yeah, the information that you bring and the wisdom you bring that's not my strength I'm the one that helps to like digest and then, you know Get the big picture and then like that. So I have one-on-one coaching I have group coaching and they have in person offerings like You know getting together George if we were to want to master mine together and work on each other's businesses in person And kind of live life together a little bit and then coach, you know, like that I will shadow coach events or workshops for people But the thing that's in common with all of these things is there's an element of just in time and closeness That I find so nourishing I find it very difficult to coach people at a distance I Feel like I'm only coaching like you know that You know that Sufi story about the the men touching an elephant and everyone is only touching one part Yes So the one person thinks the elephant is thin and like a snake because they're touching the tail and other person things It's like, you know, like a stingray because they're touching the ear only like everyone comes away with a different idea of an elephant If I'm coaching a person at a distance This isn't the same for everyone but it is my experience that I feel like I'm only coaching part of a person So I like to get in partnership with clients who this works for obviously And they're really understand holistically what's working and not not working in their life So that the business can fit in like a house that fits in perfectly with the hill on the land And it's okay if you love that to ask that in the partnerships with your clients And it's okay. Also, if you think if you're listening to this, you're like, whoa, I don't like the sounds of that at all. Andrea I don't want that much closeness with my clients it So I I think that that says a little bit about how I like to work people whether it's one-on-one or in groups or in person, but I Over time I've definitely changed and I know George you're the same way. I've definitely tried a lot of things What I don't like is I'll say this and maybe controversial is I don't like the the cultural Expectation to charge as much as possible. I don't know if that's interesting to talk a little bit more about Well, yeah, because with the kinds of mentoring coaching experience you have you should be charging $80,000 an hour No, good Yeah, but it's so so yes, let's talk about this because Some people might say well gosh, you know You know, she's written these books. She's she's led these Different programs successfully. She's mentored all these people. She she must be way out of the our price range, but But not necessarily No, and I know that to be true of you like I feel like again, George, we share so much. So I I think so I'll say this in general to try to be useful to anyone who's listening It's totally fine to charge to charge and it's totally fine to charge plenty um What I think is not necessarily right and maybe somebody will disagree I hope to engage in constructive conversation about it if someone disagrees, but Just because you can charge more. I don't think you should I Don't believe that I think that Money is a resource just like the earth just like the fruit on a tree Just because you can pick more and keep more in your arms doesn't mean you should How much do you need? How much will be delicious for you? What what what feels good about sharing can in pricing my own coaching I like to say of course. I'm running a business. I'm modeling running a business and charging my value But I am an advocate for my clients keeping as much money in their pockets as well There's enough for everybody. Yeah, yeah, it's beautiful. Yes Thank you for that. And I also think about the others in the industry, you know, it's like Someone who's charging a lot is basically taking more from them the the available resources in that industry It's like, okay, you know and also we get Like if someone is paying us a great deal amount of money There's a lot of pressure also to like wow They're they're spending a lot of the resources with us and is that the right amount of pressure that we should be expecting? but I Want to go back to coaching because you have mentored lots of coaches and lots of consultants You know, you you are so it's so you're so skilled at it now that it's you know, I mean I Remember, you know that that listening to an interview with you When I you know Close to when I started the business and like she's already so good at this You know like now you've gotten you've gotten even better at it So what would you say to somebody who says I want to become a better? coach Consultant or like a provider a healer. Um, how do I I know there's you've written books about this but how do I like what's what's What's alive for you right now in terms of how we How we might better serve clients like yeah, what's important to you now? It is a beautifully phrased question. It what it allows me to access George is that I Actually think less is more So When I'm coaching now because I have the experience that I have The question I'm carrying around that I'm trying to live is what's the right dose of What to say and Then enough quiet so that it's like it's like they're saying Only by removing can we create perfection once you've removed everything that you need to remove that is art It's like a sculpting us for sculptors, you know, so When we're new coaches, I remember having the feedback from a supervisor That I did a lot of talking in my coaching session just like right now But this is an interview. So I guess it's okay Yeah, yeah, no, you're you're don't you don't you're not as talkative as you know a lot of interviewees So you are very yeah, you are giving the right dose also But yeah, you're you're the supervisor were saying that oh a lot of talking too much talking And so as I am getting more skilled as coaches become more skilled or you aspire to become better I think this is a very good thing to keep in mind. What's the least amount you can say? for the best effect Same with building a business. What's the least amount of effort for the most? Wonderful return in your business financially in other words seek the minimum level. Yes Yes, you know, it it's I think it's very what you're saying is very foundational to to the true idea of coaching which is empowering the client, right? It's like letting helping the client wake up to their read their own resources thereby having those skills that they've developed be much more self-empowered rather than Depending on us more and more and more right right, right exactly and when we talk a lot We're actually kind of stealing their experience, right? Interesting wow Yeah, that's worth that's worth pondering on So Time is quickly coming up close for our interview and I I want to thank you for this We could talk hours and hours on this but Tell us what if somebody is saying gosh, Andrea, I do want to work with you in some way What are the different ways that people can can start to work with you? Thank you I think it would be really fun to invite people to come to this little five part email It's a little email-based. Yeah, mini course. What's it about completely free. It's about income through innovation. Oh great great Yeah, and it has exercises In it some visualizations and things that you can actually fill in and should give you real progress so it's that income through innovation calm and Some of my favorite writing some of my favorite Analogies and Fresh ways to look at things like some of what we've talked about today So I invite everybody to take that in and then from there if you're interested in Pursuing a conversation about how to go to a next step. There will be instructions in there. So I really welcome that Your newsletter is one of the few that I actually still subscribe to so It is it is a good invitation Great well you have Yeah, you've mentioned you do work one-on-one with people. You also have group programs You have of course an active social media so people should follow you there I'll have the links to whatever links you want me to include them either So thank you so much Andrea. Maybe give us one last Encouragement to the person who's saying I want to build a business that is unusual. That is that is me. That's fits with me Maybe up to now they have tried different things and it hasn't worked as well as they'd like or maybe some things have worked But they they want to they really want to step it up this year and then make it work well for them What what's like a closing encouragement you want to share? You know, it's so great because that the five-part a course is definitely going to help with that But one of the things I write about in there for this very moment, even if you don't have time to go subscribe to that When people struggle with Getting their businesses to feel like they're in flow It's usually because there's something is missing or broken About how they're doing it and a lot of times people will avoid it And not think about it and just try a new thing So my invitation to you is to remember the pearl inside an oyster Doesn't form unless there's a grit first so What is the grit That is pissing you off making you upset Getting you annoyed and frustrated and stuck journal on it bring it out. Let the grit be alive So that we can use it to turn into a pearl and a lot of times the struggles will melt away from there Wow, that is profound. Thank you so much for that. Yeah Well, I'm looking forward to getting the the five parts Exercises and things like that too. So I'll be sure to check that out. Thank you so much Andrea I've heard all the work you do. Thank you for having me George. Thanks