 Aloha and about. This is a show where we explore a variety of people, events, places, situations of interest in our city, state, world, and our nation. So today we're delighted to have Skyler Smela joining us. We're going to talk about a topic that a lot of people don't know a lot about. So welcome to the show, Skyler. Thank you. Thanks for having me out again. Well, you know, our title today is Gender Expansive and Gender Diverse Folks, which is interesting, you know, that these concepts, while they might be ancient, are sort of kind of being reintroduced into our society. And so we are at the forefront of here on our ThinkTech show. But today we're going to be talking about what is gender diverse and gender expansive community? What are some main terms we currently use? What are some new pronoun usage and why it's important to use that and about misgendering and why we don't want to do that? And how we address folks who are gender queer or gender diverse, some resources that are available, and how we can support and become involved as allies for friends, family, and just a local community. So again, thank you for being here. And, you know, we have a slide deck that we're going to be referring to. But we've got this first slide up here that says Trans 101 with Skyler. They, them. Can you tell us what is that, how, what's the they, them? Let's start off right with that. Yeah. So they then are my pronouns. So, you know, he, he, but there are some non-binary pronouns that people are using now as well. And they is one of them. So Skyler is on the show. They are very happy to be here. Okay. And so we're seeing this more and more, I think in people's emails at their signature line, they say, they just put pronouns there, he, his, she, hers, or sometimes I see she, they, or he, they, so they may, they may be okay with different pronouns, which we're going to get into a little bit later because I think for some people they're like, hmm, how, how do I, how do I go about doing this and how do I be an ally in this? So in our next slide we've got here, what's the T in LGBTQ plus? What is the T? What is the T indeed? Yeah, I know that for many people it can be quite confusing. So basically the T or transgender is an umbrella term for anyone who's gender does not align with the sex we were assigned at first. And as an umbrella term it's very wide. So we're going to get into a little bit more detail about it. Okay. And sometimes we see, like in our first slide, we had trans, T, R, A, N, S with an asterisk after the, that, what, is that shorthand or what does the asterisk mean? Is it? It's a little bit more inclusive because of course transgender is something that we use to talk about a gender diverse type of people. There's also trans non-binary. There's transsexual. There are many terms. So by using trans and then an asterisk you don't cut anybody out. Okay. So that's the preferred thing that we should be using. And you know, we are, we're all learning together about this and the, and the, I guess we'll call it best practices or evolving practices. So the T as we saw with the slide with the colorful umbrella, what's the T and LGBTQ? It's anyone whose gender does not align with the sex or gender that they were assigned at birth, which is interesting because we don't think of gender being assigned at birth, but in fact it's the first question that pops out, right? What are you having? Even before it pops out, you know, the gender review party, right? Gender review. You have to have it on the document for the birth, you know, that follows you throughout your life. So actually it seems to be something that's preoccupying a lot of people's minds. Well, and yes, I know and I think young people are more with this. There's no tolerance among the zennials or I don't, what's after the millennials? I call them zennials, but there's Gen Zs. Okay. There's no, there's no, they're already post-gender, I think in many ways. So we're really about educating, well, you're peers, but also folks that came before you. And the next slide we show about just how many people identify as trans or transgender. It says 1.4 million adults. That's in this country alone, I take it. That's just the U.S., yes. And that's self-identifying or is that people that we think is there or do you know about that? Yep. That's self-identified from, there's a statewide and then also nationwide survey on health and harm reduction. And this was actually done, this source is from 2014. So it has probably changed since then, but it was administered through the phone. And 1.4 million of the adults who answered that identified as transgender. Oh yeah. That's nationwide. Yep. And in Hawaii. Yeah. Actually, Hawaii is one of the largest populations of transgender people. For adults, about 0.8% of the population is transgender. And then actually for students, for people who are considered youth, it holds 3%. So in a study done in 2018, so more recently, about 1,260 high school youths identified as transgender across the state, which is about one in 33 high schoolers. Okay. And we're seeing that. Yeah. A lot of people say, you know, I don't know any trans people, but statistically that's just not true. You just may not be a person that that trans person feels comfortable coming out about that part of their identity list. Right. And I think that's the important point is that it's just like when people used to say they didn't know any gay people. Yeah, you know them. You just don't know because they don't feel that they can be out with you or whatever, or maybe they just don't feel like telling you or whatever it is. And some trans folks are more comfortable with expression and identity than others and some may be vulnerable and not able to express themselves even to a reporter. So the source on that next slide showed that one of the 33 high schools, this is so in a class of 30 kids, basically, you're going to have at least one kid in there who identifies as trans. And that was from a 2018 report, as you say, it's increasing. And an interesting statistic on that slide says 57% of transgender youth identify as LGBT and 16% of LGBT identify as transgender. So there's some crossover there as well. Okay. And as we say, okay, so Skyler, that's all good and well, I'm not trans. Why should I care? Yeah. And of course, the obvious answer is you want to be respectful, political correctness. But I think it goes far beyond that as to why you should care about transgender, gender diverse people. So I always think about this image of a bonsai tree. And a bonsai tree is very beautiful, very small, very manageable. But what they do to create a bonsai tree is they take a very, very, very small shoot of a tree, and they shape it over years and years, and stunt it into this shape, which of course is very beautiful. But I always think about that when it comes to children and gender, you know, when we're born as infants, I see a 360 of possibility. Who knows who this child can become, right? And that's quite exciting. And of course, there's genetic predilection, some people are more predestined or predisposed, whatever you believe to X or Y. But even before the child is born, we start to trim those branches of possibilities. So maybe when you were a child, you heard man up, boys don't cry, or you don't shouldn't be so bossy, or don't wear that. That's embarrassing. Don't act like that. What will they think? And so when you hear that, you know, both implicitly and explicitly through your parents, families, schools, media society, you start to also trim your possibilities. Oh, I shouldn't be holding my cup like this. I better do it that way. Or I can't speak this way. I better be quiet or louder. However, you know, we adjust ourselves because we want to be loved, we want to be safe. And so we become these things considered beautiful, right? These bonds I achieve. But if we're allowing transgender and gender non performing people to be themselves and making space in society actively for that, even if you are not transgender, even if you're perfectly happy with the sex and gender you were assigned at birth, you can be freer. And you can express in a way that is more close to who you really are. And I think that that would just make the world a touch more comfortable and less stressed. Don't you think? Absolutely. Absolutely. That says it very well is that, you know, and I think in this last year, when we have just the basic things of Black Lives Matter coming up and we're dealing with like basic issues of race still in this nation, but it's come a long way. And we're and we had, you know, the year before that, about, well, with the last president, of course, and the women's movement coming back again and saying, wait a minute, it's about recognizing and valuing each person for who they are, what they bring to the table, regardless of their external mutable characteristics. And I think part of this, this is just part of that ongoing story. It's just not as well known as race or gender has been. And it's part of becoming better humans and accepting each other and ourselves so that we can be all that we can be. Because when we have to repress something or supress something or oppress something, we're all suppressed, oppressed and repressed. And I think that's the the basic idea behind that. Yeah, you don't want to be a clipped bonsai either. So people may have a, and also just better for health, like these kids, trans kids and gay, just gay kids, it's hard enough. Just being a kid is hard enough. So let's take the pressure off of people and make it better, make it better for all of us. And we're seeing new examples of this. I remember, was it Gwyneth Paltrow, they didn't gender their child until they said, they said, we had a child, but we're going to let the child determine their own gender. And I thought, oh, I don't know if it was her, but it was another famous couple. And I thought, oh, that's quite interesting. They were liberal, moderate parents with the idea that the child will naturally choose its gender after probably it will be the gender assigned at birth that they were to assign one. But we're having other people that are coming out. I noticed President Biden, Assistant Secretary of Health is a trans woman who was former Secretary of Health for Pennsylvania, high position. We're had now Elliot Page, formerly known as Ellen Page, has just come out as trans and non-binary, which is interesting. So can you explain that just as an aside, how are you trans and non-binary for folks that might be wondering what that is? Oh, that's an excellent question. I actually have a slide regarding that. The idea of transgender as the umbrella term, that's the largest term. And within that, you have binary transgender, which is going from, say, if you were assigned as a man, going to woman, the other side of that spectrum, quote unquote, or vice versa, woman going to man. Now that's called binary transgender, because you're picking one of two. And it just happens to be the one you weren't assigned that is closer to your heart and mind. But then you have non-binary transgender. And I actually also am non-binary transgender. So that's, and there are many different terms for it, people who basically either feel like they are a combination of these ideas of man and woman. They're some sort of mix or both at the same time, or they are neither. They just don't fall on that spectrum at all. All of those people would be non-binary transgender people. Okay. So like Elliot Page, and it's interesting, I we're going to see a lot more of this as people feel open and freer to express themselves. And with people like Elliot leading the way, you know, it makes it easier. So our next slide, I think people get confused about all this stuff about sex and gender and sexuality. So we got something where we've got sex as male, female or intersex, which is, you know, people born with both types of sexual organs or some something that's just not clear cut. And then gender. So we got gender. I think society's getting the concept of trans woman or trans man, of Caitlyn Jenner being a famous example of a trans woman who was, and someone who's a cis woman or a cis man, that one might be a new term for people. What's a cisgendered man or cisgendered woman? So trans and cis actually come from the sciences, but as a trans woman is somebody who sex was not the gender, did not match with the gender that they feel is best for them. A cis person is somebody who's sex that was assigned at birth does match their gender in this society anyway. And we always when talking about this, we need to keep very close in mind the fact that different societies have different ideas of gender and sex and sexuality actually all of it. It's all cultural, right? And it does vary. But in our Western American context, we have trans, somebody who goes from one side of the binary to the other and cis, somebody who's at one side of the binary when they're born and likes to just sign. Thank you very much. Right. So I might identify as a cisgendered male because that's the gender I was assigned at birth and the gender I identify with right now. So for folks, you're probably that's what you are, if you haven't felt something different, that's your that's your term. We got some other words on their genderqueer, agender, non-binary, bi-gender, gender fluid, neutra, two-spirit and more. So I encourage people like look these up on the internet and see what it is that this is, you know, these are in Cosmo magazine. It's coming up. You've got to get used to it because this is going to be your grandkids. It's going to be your coworkers. It's going might be you and figuring out how to, you know, how do you identify yourself? It's hard enough. But then with other folks, we've got to catch up to speed and then we have sexuality. So we've got the main ones we got here. I think I have a homosexual, heterosexual, pansexual, bisexual, straight, lesbian, gay, demisexual, asexual and more. So there's, they're not always the same things. They're not the same things, sex, gender and sexuality. So we get there's got another good slide on there. I think that shows this with three people in there. So can you explain that slide number nine where we have, so you're, you're assigned at birth, your sex, or perhaps you change your, actually, no, you don't change your sex that you're assigned at birth, obviously, but you might later on and then you become trans. Now there's actually, this is where I get a little bit complicated. You're probably saying, oh, it was already complicated, Skylar. Okay. All right. It's harder before it gets easier, right? So your sex, that's the science-y stuff. That's the stuff, you know, in your pants and in your jeans between you and the doctor, right? That's assigned at birth. But you can change your secondary sexual traits. You can take hormones, for example, to give yourself a beard or breath, to you can have surgery, to change how your genitals look, have a hysterectomy, to change all the hormones going on in your body. A lot of people call that a transsexual, going from male, at least in your body's hormones and appearance, to female and vice versa. And then of course you have transgender. Well, what's the difference? So if sex is the science-y stuff, right? With your doctor checking you out when you're born, then gender is more interpersonal. Sex is personal, gender is interpersonal. It's who you go to bed at and you wake up at and go to work at. That's your societal role, where you feel most comfortable and where you identify with other people of that group, right? So a woman who or a female who identifies as a man would be a transgender man and a male who identifies as a woman would be a transgender woman, binary. So F to M, M to F and then somebody who's assigned male or female who doesn't feel like those two choices with them at all, they're not on binary transgender. So M to X or F to X and there are lots of different words to describe that. Right and everybody has their own way of describing how they feel, right? M to X, I'm glad you brought that up because you know and we hear the word transsexual, but I'm glad you put it in there because you're right about the secondary sex characteristics that maybe that is something. We don't hear that a lot because we figured, oh that's an old term, we shouldn't use that, but I think the key is that it's the term that the person wants to use themself as the most important one and the X interestingly enough is now being accepted on driver's licenses and I think the State Department is allowing it on passports too, if I'm not mistaken, or they will be very soon in the new administration. So the X just means I'm not identifying this way or that way and I think you're seeing that on questionnaires and surveys too. What's your gender? And this is prefer not to say none of the above something else and it's important to start capturing that information. Yeah, Facebook has over 60 different choices. 60 choices on Facebook. So yeah, so this is it is confusing for folks. We should let them know there's not a clear roadmap, but this is a good basic guide and just to educate themselves to see how we can best approach this. So on the next slide we've got something here that different types of cultures having non-binary folks just historically have folks in Samoa in Albania and here in Hawaii with the Mahua Kani and Mahua Hine and that this is and of course Native Americans all cultures had some sort of non-binary folks throughout history. It's just we haven't recognized it or don't haven't wanted to recognize it, but absolutely it's there. Was that a special on PBS? Is that where that came from? It's actually a really wonderful research online. It's an interactive map of gender diverse cultures which I absolutely love and they talk about all these third, fourth, fifth agendas and you know we have a tendency in America and of course in the western world to think that how we visualize it, how we conceptualize it is the right way. So it must be that there's just a man or a woman and this whole third gender is a new thing, but in fact other genders than man and woman have been seen as completely a normal part of life for millennia. You know probably as long as they were humans there were gender diverse people. What was the um you were just mentioned uh referenced something what was that from was that from that PBS show or was that from something else? The map of gender diverse cultures. Yes I think it's a resource on the PBS website and so I actually link to it as well you can see it in the comments. Okay perfect uh yeah yeah it's it's just like you know they say uh the native uh Alaskans or Eskimos have you know a lot of rewards for snow or rain because that's that's a reality it's just what we want to look at and see. So it's a great point that that we like to look at things we we want to know we want definition but that's because our society tends to be that way but we're we're getting more flexible. I like what you have in the next one about gender that assists gendered male straight male he him his is it's not normal it's just common so how we phrase this how we word this is is important because normal or not normal what's what's normal um and here's a an intersex non-binary asexual z her hers is that how you pronounce uh z here here's which uh is just some different pronouns that you could put underneath your um uh uh signature line so it's not not not abnormal just uncommon and I think as we as time progresses obviously this is going to become more and more common um not just uncommon it'll be more common so uh pronounce those again for us z so this person pronouns are here and here and there'll also be a lot of different resources at the end you can go into practices and more home or more uh pronouns. Thank you for that and so I have the next one here is this is the photo of you with some paint on for some festival and guessing there's a rainbow flag and I see how do you tell someone's gender masculine cis woman fem cis man trans woman gender queer how old were you when you felt different and could give yourself any vocabulary yeah well you know for me I didn't have extremely strict parents where I came to gender roles so I really didn't think about it very much I just knew I mostly hung out with boys I only had one female friend of course the female friend is also now trans so really I had no girlfriend um but that wasn't odd really and I was just that tomboy because I was assigned female birth until I hit puberty and that's when I started realizing oh my god something is very wrong here what is going on I could not stand developing into you know a womanly body and how my body was less of the issue than how other people started to treat me because of my body how I wasn't able to interact in the same way with my male friends how suddenly I was being catculled on the street and you know quietly or not so quietly forced into the sort of compulsory heterosexuality and so I didn't have vocabulary for this until much later you know until college but it was in puberty that I knew I think I might not be a woman after all and well and you grew up in a time with the internet so you had some resources or saw something on tv or something that gave you pointed the way at least towards a different reality which which is lucky uh not everybody had that when they were growing up um so the next slide you have what is gender it's an umbrella term for identity expression presentation and and you know your your own story and everybody's story is so important and I would love to explore that more um were your were your parents accepting at the time or are they are they have they been supportive uh well you know my mother is coming around uh she doesn't really understand this and I could give her the whole presentation she probably would still not be 100 percent but she really tried because she just you know wants me to be happy and whatever makes me happy but I was very very proud of her when she was talking to my uncle and she was saying well styler isn't really a man or woman styler is somewhere in between and I was just so happy I meant so much for me for her to be able to be that ally for me and it just made me feel immediately closer to her that that's it's wonderful to hear then and I can imagine it's confusing for a parent just that whatever you thought was going to be for your child but at the end of the day I think most parents who really love their kids want them they want them to be happy and that means they have they need to be themselves so you've got another slide on on on what our gender is our identity as a jawbreaker was as the inside is the your internal sense of what your gender identity is you're followed by the expression your psychosocial personality so choices such as speak walk man spreading you know on the yeah crossing your legs are not right and then your present case of your outward appearance style such as haircut clothing body shape the next one I think is interesting I love this graphic here's your gender and you have a few things on here Skyler is FTX gender queer users they them pronouns you have your gender identity as a lightning bolt somewhere between man and both and gender expression between androgynous and fem and gender presentation closer to masculine and and and androgynous what's the difference between expression and presentation that's a good question so expression is the things that you do to express yourself such as how you speak you know do you use a lot of different emotions in your voice or are you very modest uh whereas gender presentation is more the adornment right how do you cut your hair what do you wear how do you present yourself and right now would you have a beard or or or whatever yes yes that's all presentation and they don't have to match one really important thing I want to say and I know we're running up on time is that I have a friend who is so far on the blue side for masculine expression masculine presentation but the gender identity is all pink she was born female she identifies as a woman even though her gender expression and presentation are super butch very masculine uh so somebody who has those exact same marks with me may identify differently but that's a great thing you know we can understand each other more fully by having these different descriptors and having ways to articulate it now that's that's an important point and thank you for explaining the difference between those two because I I think it could be you know identity expression presentation that was a really great explanation and then the next one is and you so I challenge our audience where do you fit in this or how about someone that you know that you're thinking hmm so as we as we move on and we're and we're most of us are going to be allies in this community who might be watching the show or we need allies so you say ally ship is as easy as don't assume be courageous and see your identity ABCs we have some resources for allies there at the bottom but I see you say here like for an example on instead of saying ladies and gentlemen say esteemed guest instead of saying ladies or guys say folks or people instead of excuse me sir just excuse me and we can ask people what are your preferred pronouns as a matter of course rather than assuming we can consider donating to organizations that are supporting people and helping with education we can advocate for policies and government and business for example you're on the board of the hawaii rainbow chamber of commerce which is an organization trying to help people and businesses catch up to speed for people who are LGBTQ plus and then talking about it just like we're doing right now we have some final some resources for I guess not just allies but for people who might be also wondering where they fit in on this and it's our you got something here from the gender pronoun guide at swarthmore the HHHRC dot org that's for hawaii transgender resources and information about hawaii trans youth for the hawaii sexual and gender minority health report 2018 I think a really important read for folks to see what the state of health is out there are there any last minute things that you wanted to to say to folks um parting wishes or or things you want to leave us with well I would just say that you know if this is the first time or even the second or third time you're hearing this it might be a ton of information overload but don't be intimidated past this really does make perfect and I know you might forget to ask pronouns or you might hear somebody's pronoun and then mess up it's okay it's understandable it's not the end of the world just apologize quickly move on keep educating yourself and you're gonna be fine okay yeah we don't have to be perfect but trying is and being an ally is is where it's at and for those of us on the journey of discovering our lives this is a truly great resource it's been a delight to have you on today Skylar I really appreciate your your own journey your personal perspective and and helping to educate other folks and we look forward to continuing this conversation in in another show because there's so much more that we can talk about so for that today we will be wrapping up here we had Skylar Asmela as our guest today and we hope that you have enjoyed this as much as we have for now a hui hou and we'll see you next time aloha aloha