 Yeah, so my streaming software seems to be streaming up. There we go. Okay. Now. I said they has said it says have an excellent connection. Now there we go. So that seems to be doing something that we wanted to do. Give me one more second. I'm going to copy and paste the stream URL to my Twitter. And I'll send you a URL as well. Hang on. Let's see. Okay. Twitter. I'm going to do is I'm going to go here to my channel and I'm going to see if I have an entry. So we're actually according to, okay, there we go. Carbon Mike James Dillingpole live stream. I'm going to copy this link. Okay. I'm going to put it. I'm going to put it. I'm just going to see what happens when it's. Yep. That's the stream. Okay. I'm going to I'm going to email this to you right now. Okay. Cool. Let's see. James Dillingpole live stream link. So I might if you if you have someone before you tweet it out, I might I might tweet, you know, just email it to someone who's not in that same house and just verify that that that everything's good. They can hear both sides of the audio. Yeah. So, so is it? Oh, here we are. Okay. Okay. Oh my God. This is I wonder and I won't be able to see how many followers we've got. Will I? I have let's see. No, but this is this is why you know you and I need to get on I need to show you how to do this on your end so that you so you can get the analytics because you really need the analytics and the whatever and and there's people should be able to kind of super chat and send you money and do all that shit. So yeah, yeah, that's we really do want that. Yeah. Okay. So have you got any? Can you see anything? Is anyone listening? Watching? Let's see. No. Wait, wait, wait, wait. I'm going to click the analytics. There appear to be four playbacks that three three concurrent there appear to be three concurrent viewers right now. We have three viewers. Yo. Okay. Well, let's just launch into it, show me. Yeah, let's launch into it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's it's been a while since we since we talked and I have to say the world's got a lot, lot worse since since we last spoke, hasn't it? I mean like crazy, crazy was that is hang on one second. YouTube is not receiving enough video to maintain a smooth streaming as such viewers will experience buffering. Okay, one second. I'm going to turn what's going on there. Don't know. Okay, we're just going to forge ahead and see what's see what's going on. Anyway, yes, the world has gotten much stranger. I mean, there's so much to talk about where should we start? Well, I think I think we should cut to the chase. So so moments before we started doing this, my first ever live stream, I don't know how many you've done. I was looking at my Twitter and up on the screen, it came that that CNN had declared that that Biden had won the presidency. And and then the BBC agreed that Biden had won the presidency. And then lots of not not just the usual leftist suspects, most of whom I block, but also most of my alleged conservative Twitter, Twitter, Twitter people, they were all crowing about the Biden victory. God knows why. But I'm but correct me if I'm wrong, Mike. Biden hasn't actually technically won the presidency. I mean, just because a few wankers, including Boris Johnson, by the way, he's who's already congratulated him on Twitter, because a few wankers claim that Biden is now president. That's not the case, is it? No, it's not. Because the problem. And, you know, I should I should I never hesitate to point out that I myself do not care for care for the president. I didn't vote for him. I didn't why I didn't vote at all this year, and I didn't vote for him last time. But more important to me is the fact that I'm an American. Okay. And so we're supposed to have elections that are conducted according to a certain standard. Right. And it's true that there is not while there is not one national standard, we have basically 50 different standards for elections. It is also true that even even by those individual standards, you know, state by state, there seem to have been an awful lot of shenanigans. For example, you're supposed to, you know, every state has some kind of deadline by which a ballot has to be received. There is compelling evidence that people in these states postmasters, for example. And, and I guess, you know, postal service bureaucrats in these states have been receiving ballots and backdating them to make it appear as if they appear as if they showed up before the deadline. There's there are these, even on the night of the election, there was this very suspicious thing where they stopped counting in the middle of the night and everyone went home and all the trends started to reverse. That's also odd. You see, here's the thing, Donald Trump, it was always bound to do better in large cities because cities tend to vote Democratic. And the cities also also, how can I say, since since the, you know, the urban centers tend to be the precincts, the voting precincts that close first. So one would expect for the voting to trend more red as the evening wears on. So initially Biden was ahead in the urban areas and then as as votes and returns start to come in from elsewhere, it's such a trend more red. Now, all of a sudden you tell me that in the middle of the night, we have this massive trend reversal and all of a sudden all these ballots for Biden start coming in, that is suspicious. Now listen, it is possible that that actually happened. But you see what the other side didn't do itself any favors by one, stopping the vote counting in the middle of the night for some strange reason. And two, in some in some documented cases, insisting that the observers from the Republican side not observe them counting votes. You know, many hands make light work and many eyes make honest elections. And so I've got a big problem with that. Again, as someone who who you've heard me, I beat up on Republicans every chance I get. And I have I have my contempt for Democrats is greater right now because the Democrats have lost the plot, right? But this here stinks. Something's wrong. Like something's that like like somebody is doing something slick. And so the fact is that it is not. It hasn't been decided yet. These these votes are being these results are being challenged in many states. Someone really has to explain to me how it's possible that Arizona went to Biden, you know, whatever you think that there are plenty of good reasons to criticize Donald Trump's immigration policy and his immigration rhetoric that reason in other words reasonable people can disagree about the merits of his policy and the and the kind of the the I hate to use the word appropriate, but the kind of the propriety of his rhetoric around immigration. Fine. But you cannot convince me that there's some huge hidden groundswell of support for the Democratic Party and for Biden in particular in Arizona. No, I'm sorry. I don't I don't buy it's on the border. Exactly. It's on the border. Right. So so so I just don't and I also don't buy the fact that it, you know, Democrats seem to have taken a trouncing down ballot everywhere. Okay. But somehow things mysteriously flipped for Biden. Now again, these things are possible. Unusual things can happen. But the fact is, you know, the fact that we didn't have enough eyeballs, the fact is that ballots, you know, tranches of ballots just mysteriously start appearing. The fact that we have several, I think it's like four different videos now coming out from Project Veritas, where they interviewed postal workers said, Yeah, my supervisor was talking about, you know, backdating ballots and and receiving ballots, you know, and forwarding them on in a way that it said that smelled to those workers themselves in a way that smelt, smelt fishy. This is this is not good enough. Yeah, go on. I agree. I agree. So so here's what what is shocking me at the moment right now. And that is that you've got the entirety of the mainstream media. You've got certainly British politicians. I expect that Boris Johnson is the only isn't the only politician to have congratulated Biden on his alleged victory. I've got, as I say, all my all my conservative and name only friends, I mean, you know, even even some of the stauncher conservatives among my friends, it certainly in the commentary at have have always had a distaste for Trump and seem to imagine that somehow Biden is going to make everything nice. But here's what's troubling me about this is Biden hasn't won. And it's it's it's entirely possible that there has been electoral fraud on a massive scale. And there is certainly sufficient circumstantial evidence to to support this this theory. Certainly. So do these people, I mean, this is almost a rhetorical question. Do these people seriously imagine that just by by by coming out on Twitter and saying that Biden has won, it suddenly becomes so. And do they think that they I mean, presumably the idea is to bounce Donald Trump into into accepting defeat when he hasn't been defeated? Correct. I mean, look, I think that's certainly what they think. I mean, I think it's obvious. It's obvious from from. It's obvious from the way we've seen the left manoeuvre on very many other issues. They think that they think exactly that they think they'll simply say it and speak it into being as if they were God himself on the first day. Exactly. That's exactly what they think. I mean, that's look, that's gone, gone, gone. It's it's also I get the impression that they think, well, it would be so embarrassing now to try and to try and change. Now we've now we've said that said that Biden has won. Now we've congratulated him. President Trump really can't go back on this because we've all we've all said our thing. We've all we've all made false of ourselves and we can't have that. That's exactly right. It's extraordinary. That's exactly right. I mean, you know, this is as I was telling one of my Twitter readers, London star, shout out to shout out to her. Oh, yes. Oh, yes. We like her. Yeah. I think they tried it. We don't no one can know how this thing is going to go. But I think they did try it on the wrong person, you know, because whatever whatever else you say about Trump. And again, I spare no criticism for the president, but he's a savage. Okay. And he's not one of these. He's not one of these Washington guys who, you know, when they talk about things, they go into this kind of NPR style drone of the American people. He'll be like, look, this this stinks. I mean, that's him. You know, he's going to come out and be like, yeah, this. No, I think what are these? Well, how come you find all these ballots in middle of night? How come you're how come you're you know, yeah, how come you don't want my my observers there? You know, you don't want observers there. And then, you know, the audacity. Let me just you know, what gets me about it is if you're going to rig an election, at least make an effort to be somewhat kind of subtle about it and to kind of, you know, to kind of play your hand in a certain way, you know, you're going to kick the the observers out of the room. You're going to kick the Trump team observes. And then you're going to tell us, then you're going to try to try it on with us like, oh, this is because of COVID? What are you stupid? So yeah, I, you know, again, you know, I don't. Yeah, go on. They were they have been so so blatant about it. You're absolutely right. So what I what I've been doing all the last few days is is been I've been deleting or or mutating half of the people that I follow on Twitter because I can't bear the ones who I find it almost less forgivable for a conservative to to diss Trump and and and to promote the narrative that this that Trump should just accept that accept this, this, you know, that he was defeated fair and square. I think I think those those conservatives are the useful idiots. That's correct. Of the left. No, that's no idea. I mean, they really the ignorance in this country, Mike, and you must have seen this, the ignorance in Britain of American politics is so it's it's unbelievable. Oh, it would be unbelievable if one one weren't aware of the fact that all the newspapers, including supposedly conservative ones like the telegraph and the and the mail, they report on Trump. They might as well be the Guardian. They just they never they never think beyond the fact that orange man bad and oh, he's he's so crass and so vulgar and they ignore all his achievements and they ignore the uselessness of of Biden and how epically awful it's going to be. Not least, I mean, you saw how the Yuan rocketed upwards when it was when the markets thought that that Biden was it was going to win. Now, why would the Yuan benefit from that? Why would that it's because Biden is a CCP place man, isn't he? I mean, he's there. He's there. Is that the gimp? Well, he's certainly don't get off the fence, James. No, I mean, look, I think he's certainly he's certainly a doormat. I mean, you know, he certainly he certainly doesn't have an end. And by the way, you know, I want to point out that this is just for anyone listening for anyone, you know, who cares about this. This goes beyond what one's actual opinion is about how foreign policy should be handled. Again, there are very good reasons to to dispute elements of of Donald Trump's handling of foreign policy. We can get into that if you like. But the point is that and there's there's several things that he's done on the foreign policy stage that I disagree with. But that is beside the point. It's actually and by the way, I don't want to get this debate, not this debate, because we're not debating, but I don't want the discussion to get caught up in well, Biden would or would not do a better job in foreign policy. That also doesn't matter. You see, because this is an election and you got to count the votes right. And that's it. And you know, I don't it does simple as it does not matter. You know, people really need to think people really need to get it together. You know, this a president is only the president and he's only in the office for four years, eight years max. And the fact is, four years is no time, eight years is no time. But but the lifetime of Republic is something. And, you know, just as people were talking about, you know, when when Trump got into office, they were talking about, well, you know, he's destroying institutions and he's undermining the legitimacy of this and that because of the way he speaks, because of things he says that all that may well be. But all that pales in comparison to how much you undermine the core institutions of Republic when you are seen to do these kinds of things here when you are seen to be putting your thumb on the scale with respect to with respect to with respect to elections, with respect to the counting of votes, you know, you should you should welcome you should welcome people into the room say, yeah, I want as many people as possible, looking at this here. Okay. You know, if if they in other words, if if if the if the Democrats really believed all that rhetoric they were spouting about the possibility of election shenanigans from the other side, then they should they should say, let's have twice as many people in the room the hell with COVID, you know, you sign a waiver, you know, that you don't care or whatever and get in the room and let's say I want we want everyone to see these votes being counted. Let's be extra that you know that in other words, if I were a Democratic leader, I would say, hey, listen, let's have let's be extra scrupulous this year. We don't want any hijinks. We don't want anything to and you said, I'm saying that's what you do if you're serious, right? You say, okay, no, no, no, no, no. Okay, you said this, you said Biden is this, blah, blah, blah. So we're gonna make sure that you count every vote exactly. Okay, you know, keeping the shine of very bright light on everything they've done the opposite. Why is that? Why is that? You know, you I mean, you know, look, look, I don't have I'm not a political scientist, I'm not a poster. Okay, but you know, there's enough content that people looking at the screen people listen to this know this that there's enough anecdotal evidence from people who drive around this country and when they drive around in the suburbs, all they see is Trump signs. Now, how is it that you know, Trump managed to beat Hillary Clinton last time around. And now with Joe Biden, that there's less enthusiasm. I mean, people were actually enthusiastic for Hillary Clinton, for better or for worse, they were. Okay, people weren't enthusiastic for Joe Biden. Okay, and now you're telling me that you found this groundswell of support for him in the middle of the night? Really? No. Okay, yeah, I do hope I do hope that were I not a Trump fan, were I a Democrat, I would be as disgusted as I am by this by this fraud that's taking place because okay, before in the run up to this, these elections, Douglas Murray was on my podcast and made of he said, I'm worried about civil war in America, because on the one hand, you've got people who believe in the US Constitution. And you think that America on balance has been a pretty good place to live, which is why so many people want to come and live there. And it's done good things done more good things than bad things. And and it's a model of democracy and so on. And then there are other people who think that the the founding fathers were all kind of slave owning racists. And that the the face is carved into into Mount Rushmore belong to belong to really dodgy characters of whom one should be ashamed. And that that every every American value is is worthless and that America is something to be embarrassed by. And those two conflicting ideological positions are hardly a recipe for harmony. So into that mix, you've now got a situation where I mean, we know from Florida, for example, that that a lot of Hispanics, you know, voted Republican possibly for the first time in their in their lives. Yes, that you've got. I mean, I know that Trump even increased his vote amongst Black women by by a I think 4% something like that. So we're seeing a sort of shift in politics. We're seeing it's not just about about white racists. It's about all of America, all sorts of people voted for Donald Trump. And now they're going to be told that their votes are going to be stolen away from them, their democratic right to decide who's going to be the next president, because basically the GOP establishment, Russia, China, the United Kingdom, apparently, the Democrats, the mainstream media and big tech have just basically decided that actually your ballot doesn't really count. And and here's the proof they've declared the election for Biden, regardless of what actually happened in the in the voting booths. Now that seems to be a recipe for years of well, I mean, whether it's civil war, I don't know, but it's but it's hardly going to help matters if Biden just gets in without anyone having checked very thoroughly into whether these rumors about electoral fraud are true or not. It's got to be done. I mean, for not just for the sake of Biden, not just for the sake of, you know, the Trump brother, but for America, the whole of America. Well, that is correct. Donald Trump is the least. Actually, I would say Donald Trump and Joe Biden are the least important parts of this whole story, actually. Right? Yeah, it doesn't matter who doesn't matter who we're talking about. And again, I don't like the man. But that's not the point. If more people voted for him, then he gets the nod. That's if you've got more electoral votes, then he gets the nod. That's it. I don't care, you know, because because as an adult and as a citizen of the Republic, you know, some things are more important than whether or not I get my say or I get my way. Okay. And this is this is it. It's like, no, no, no, this is you got to do this right here. This is what's important. And the fact that it happens to be a person that that that that I don't like or that someone else doesn't like. So so what are we saying? Always saying that we that that that the elections are only going to be honest when certain people agree that more or less the right people are on the ballot. Is that what we're saying? Because if that's what we're saying, then okay, but then let's stop pretending we have a republic. Let's just stop pretending. So so this is and by the way, I don't necessarily even think that this is this is necessarily limited. This kind of shenanigans only happens because you hear this a lot like this is what Democrats always do. I think this is what politicians do. I think I still think that in the year 2000, there were some shenanigans on the other side as far as that election between George W. Bush and Al Gore. But but again, the fact is that here right now, we're looking at some we're looking at something that looks an awful lot like systemic malfeasance in the in the in the in the kind of the gathering and the counting of ballots. And so people people need to to fight that. But here's the other thing I want to say is that however this thing goes, you know, one, I think it the okay, so what what we have on our side and when I say our side, I don't mean I don't mean necessarily people who voted for Trump because again, I didn't vote for him. But on the side of people who care that votes are counted fairly incorrectly who don't want to see an election stolen. One advantage is that it really looks to me from looking at all this stuff. You've got to go to project veritas.com. First of all, you've got to check out these videos from James O'Keeffe. It's very important. I think that it really looks very sloppy and amateurish and almost panicked. You know, I talked to a lot of my friends about about, you know, who are more on the conspiratorial side. And what I tell them is, you know, I disagree with them, but I usually going to disagree with them respectfully because I think they're not they're not unreasonable. They're not unreasonable to to to be suspicious, right, and to think that this is part of a large, you know, kind of globe spanning conspiracy because it looks awfully conspiratorial. But I think this, you know, this doesn't look like this doesn't look like any competent deep state operation. We could say that you know, you think it's the deep state or not. But Jesus, I mean, this this looks like this looks like this is like high school going. So give me some hope here, because you see, one of the one of the things because I've been so busy deleting or blocking or muting any accounts that give me kind of contrary views. I tend to talk to people like you and my friend, my friend, Rapp legator in in in Florida. And these tend to be people who are kind of think they're there of my party, they believe that the election hasn't been stolen. But but that with that in mind, given that this is kind of I'm seeking confirmation bias in a way, but tell me, is there is there any hope? I mean, the stuff about the watermarks, for example, is that is that a kind of urban myth? Or is that actually true? That does not that does not seem credible to me at this point. And by the way, anytime, anytime anyone says anything having to do with blockchain, Bitcoin, I tend to, you know, hold on to my wallet. I think. Okay, so some hope. Well, well, I think one thing that it's important to remember is that this is it's never it's never down to just one person. Um, the past four years of a Trump presidency were important in the sense that Donald Trump is was and is a disruptor, right? He's not, you know, you and I know that he's not a principled conservative. That's not a dig. I'm not saying he has no principles. I'm just saying that that's a separate question. I'm just saying that he's not he's not animated by exactly. Well, not not just not establishment, but he's not thinking he's not thinking in terms of, you know, like Edmund Burke and, you know, Russell Kirk and whatever. He's not thinking like he's a populist. Okay, now being a populist is also not necessarily a bad thing. It can be a bad thing. You know, it but but Donald Trump was and is important as a breacher. And I tell this to my to my conservative friends all the time. When you see my friend, my retired Colonel friend out in Colorado, he knows who he is. I won't say his name. I won't put him on the spot, but he knows who he is. He gets a kick out of this analogy because, you know, when when they train guys in the army to do dynamic entries, like to break into houses and clear rooms and things like that, there's a guy with a battering ram. And then there's a stack of guys behind the guy with the battering ram, you know, and then the guy in it with the ram will breach the door and the other guys run in. Okay. And then he'll pull his line and then he'll go in behind them. Okay. So now Donald Trump is a breacher. And what I'm always telling conservatives is listen, you know, you're a little bit too happy about just the fact that you have a breacher in the White House. Because you have a breacher in the right, it's what you now have to do is to go is to enter the breach that he has made. You have to now get smarter about how you talk to people and get smarter about how you persuade to how you persuade people and get smarter about how you kind of undermine the forces that are trying to undermine you. Okay. Let's talk about the race thing a second because I think it's important. Donald Trump did make significant gains in Black and Latino communities. Yes. But the way I see it and listen, he is to be commended for that. Okay. But the way I see it, the rank incompetence of Democrats, the extent to which they've lost the plot, the extent to which the extent to which Democrats have forgotten their working class roots, the extent to which Democrats events clear and open and scathing contempt for all the things that working class people actually love and think are important and valuable. The sheer destructiveness of Democratic liberal social policy over the past few decades should mean that the Republicans are running the table right now. Like Republicans should not be congratulating themselves because they're getting 10 or 20 percent or whatever of the Black vote in some precincts. They should be asking themselves what's wrong with them and part of the problem, and this is not necessarily down to Donald Trump himself, part of the problem is that the people advocating for this kind of outreach, the people advocating for this are also kind of cack-handed and amateurish. And I'm looking at you, Candace Owens, and I'm looking at you, Charlie Kirk, and a lot of these other people who are waving around, who are kind of not waving up, but banding about this ugly and stupid plantation rhetoric all the time. Anyone who is not the Democratic Party and anyone who's not a Green and any kind of a weird French Party should be running the table right now in a lot of these urban areas. And they're not. And the fact is that they can and should be doing better. That goes beyond Donald Trump. And by the way, that effort can and should continue beyond Donald Trump, whether he ends up stepping down at the end of this year, or whether he does get four more years. It's like that, that needs to go on. And by the way, let's assume that Donald Trump gets four more years. Then what happens then? What happens in 2024? Where are the kind of conservative candidates that are being seeded up from the pardon me? What's the name? Is it Christie? No, the governor of South Dakota. Surely she she goes in next. OK, well, I mean, you know, I don't know anything about her, so I can't speak to her one way or the other. But anyway, but but more immediately, yeah, I you're you're a you're a techno geek. And you and you and you have the advantage of living in America and you and you know, you presumably following this stuff a lot. Well, does does President Trump have a plan? I mean, has he got because what I'm seeing is is people like the House, the kind of the swamp, if you like, yes, the House Republicans, that the people like Dan Crenshaw, the guy who I was a stand up guy with his eye patch, he's clearly decided to throw Trump to the wall. So you know, he's not going to give him any help. Lots of I mean, if I were a Republican right now, I would be doing everything I could to save my president, because actually, he's our best hope we've got of advancing the kind of things that Republicans should believe it. But a lot of his people seem to be just like, oh, he's so embarrassing, we can't get rid of him quickly enough. Has he got enough of a team? And has he got enough lawyers? And, you know, just give me some throw me some crumbs of hope here. Right now, I'm sort of getting I'm getting worried. So you're looking to talk about short term hope, well, the short term hope, excuse me, the short term hope is that he's a savage and that he doesn't he's and he's got the bully pulpit. He is in he is in less of an information bubble than most other people who have who have been president, partly because ironically, he over uses social media so much that he has this kind of periscope, you know, out of the bubble, you know, into what's going on in the rest of the country. So that's good. And, and, you know, people on his team, a lot of people on his team are savages as well. I mean, you know, what's his name? Bannon, you know, Steve Bannon is a savage, right? So that's also good. Is that enough? I don't know. So, you know, I can't tell you that. I'm glad you didn't say I don't think so. Right. No, no, I don't know. Yeah, well, but I don't know right now is is good. Right. But here's the thing. Here's the thing. It really either way. Well, first of all, I think, by the way, Douglas Murray, who I like a lot, I think Douglas Murray overstates over overstates the matter. I don't think America's on the brink of any kind of civil war. It's just not that's not going on. America wasn't on the brink of a civil war this summer. America wasn't burning this summer. Nothing like that. There was no leftist takeover this summer. What happened is that the forces of order retreated in the face of chaos. And by the way, in the face of what appears to have been orchestrated chaos, I just want I mean, maybe I'm stating the obvious, but I just want to point out something that, you know, this really this past summer between the riots and the ridiculous, you know, stupid, panicked overreaction of, you know, lockdowns and closures in the US really does seem to have been an attempt to also to game this election before the fact. It seems to me that all these mayors and governors who allowed a small ragtag group of spoiled post college students with useless degrees and bad haircuts and poor hygiene to run rampant in American cities and in some cases take over real estate in American cities, it seems to me that that was an attempt to provoke an overreaction on the part of the federal government so that so that they could hang that around the neck of Donald Trump. And to his credit, because I didn't think he would, he's an impulsive guy, but to his credit, he handled that in the in exactly the correct way. You know, I'm always saying this, that you guys, the British, wrote the book on counterinsurgency. You literally there are several books, all the books on counterinsurgency worth reading, pretty much with a few exceptions, were written by Brits. Okay. And the first commandment of counterinsurgency is do not overreact. And he did not overreact. And that's to his credit. And what that meant was that you saw that at a certain point, these mayors saw they weren't going to get there was no percentage anymore in allowing this nonsense to go on and allowing this mayhem and in this stupid, destructive street antics of Black Lives Matter and Tifa and they and they started to pull back on it. Okay. COVID, same thing. Right. It's clear to me that many of these restrictions were not at all about safeguarding life, not at all. They were when they weren't about simply the petulance of petty and small-minded bureaucrats insisting on obedience, what they were about was slow walking the economy so they can hang that around Donald Trump's neck. Okay. Now, the extent to which I'm less certain about the extent to which that was successful, but that seems to me that that is what it was. Now, it seems I'm going to make a bet that after this, after this, after 2020, right, no matter who ends up in the White House, we're probably going to see an easing of these restrictions because there will no longer be any percentage in it. Whoever gets in, right? If Donald Trump gets in, then he's in his final term. You're talking about coronavirus. Correct. There don't be any percentage anymore in slowing down, in trying to trash the economy because what difference does it make? And if Biden becomes president, right, then there also won't be any percentage in slow walking the economy, so they're going to back off it. That's my prediction. I can't be certain, but yeah. Yeah. No, I think coronavirus would never have happened had it not been an election year with President Trump as one of the candidates. Well, possibly, what wouldn't have happened? Well, but I say I'm not so sure about that because you see, again, this is the thing. Events are the enemy of politicians everywhere, always, right? Yeah, but wait, I can't know what you're going to say, but the thing is, there have been years, influenza years, as bad with as higher death toll as this year, never before has the economy been closed down, never before have people worn masks, never before has been this nonsense. It's all been orchestrated because Trump is president. Well, but yes, but that doesn't explain why there were so many lockdowns in the UK. That only explains lockdowns here, doesn't it? I agree that, look, only connect and there are all sorts of ideological currents going on. We can talk about some of them. One of them, of course, is definitely the rise of China. We have been played like fools by China through the year. You think, for example, of how they fooled us into adopting this mask thing, which had never been a feature of Western culture. You go on the underground in Tokyo or whatever, you go to Hong Kong, everyone's wearing masks. It's what they do. These authoritarian tactics were not part of our culture in the West. Well, but wait a minute. Suddenly, we kind of copied them. Well, wait a minute. I would push back on that a little bit. I've been to Tokyo, I've been to the subway, both of the Tokyo subways, because there's two of them, two systems. People wear masks when they are sick, so they won't infect anyone else. We don't even do that. We don't even do that, but what I'm saying is even over there, it's not some kind of universal thing that everyone wears masks traditionally. It's that you wear a mask if you're sick, so your coughing and sneezing doesn't infect anyone else. We have no history of quarantining healthy populations on masks. That just doesn't happen because it doesn't need to happen. I agree with you that all I'm saying is that I don't want to, again, maybe I tend to be, people who talk to me know that I tend to push back, and it's not a reflexive pushback. I like to think it's a reason to push back against conspiracy theories and things like that. Why? Not because I don't think that these, not because I, look, I don't put anything past these people, but here's the thing, they're not that bright. They're just not that smart. What I'm saying is that what they are is opportunistic. It is entirely possible, and I think it's likely that there were people waiting to pounce on the opportunity of, hey, we have a new, okay, we've got a new, some disease we don't know anything about, so we're going to take some seemingly temporary actions or some ostensibly temporary actions to kind of stem this thing, and then what people realize is, hey, we can get people to do what we say, and hey, by the way, if we do this, then all of a sudden, then economic growth starts to sputter, and it's like, wait a minute, if we can slow down economic growth by doing this, then that is also possible. At the end of the day, look, I'm trying to cast the widest possible net, so I don't want to go down any particular road where you have to believe this whole tranche of things just to line up with me on something. I think that it is clear, what we can agree on is that COVID-19 has a 99 plus percent survival rate, and what we can agree with is that, what we can agree on, excuse me, is that everything is a risk, but as a society of grown folks, as adults, we need to understand that accepting risks and thinking about trade-offs is part of the deal, and we don't get to live in an environment of perfect safety, no government can prevent all suffering, no government can prevent all death, and we need to realize that ultimately all of us, every single one of us, has been infected with a sexually transmitted disease that has a 100 percent fatality rate, and that's life. It's called life. So we're going to take some casualties, we've got to get on with it and get back to work, and I think that the situation over there with Boris Johnson who's clearly lost the plot, that's the whole other thing. Yeah, let's talk about how bad things are over here. I think I'm possibly even more pessimistic about the world than you. Look, I share your view that this wasn't a conspiracy in which people sat down in a darkened room and said, right, we're going to exaggerate the the virulence of this novel virus and we're going to exaggerate the the deadness of it in order to unseat Donald Trump. It's not, things don't work like that. As you say, people are way too incompetent to be able to plan things that accurately and anyway life doesn't order itself on such obvious lines. However, what I have noticed is this opportunism you mentioned, this convergent opportunism, where, for example, I don't know whether this has been the case in the US as well, I hope not, but one of the consequences of the government's response in this country to coronavirus has been a massive reduction in the use of cash. Now, obviously this worries me greatly because if the government stops cash being the popular currency, what it means is that everything goes electronic and the government can monitor every single transaction and they own your ass and it makes it much easier for them to profit from things like negative interest rates and so on because what do you do with your money? I mean, you can't store it in your mattress anymore under your mattress if real money isn't accepted. And how does this creep in? Where did the idea creep in that money is somehow going to give you coronavirus? Well, it came from the government, but it obviously came from people within the government who are sympathetic to a particular way of the thinking and it's a kind of Davos mentality, it's a kind of technocratic, it's a great reset mentality. I think one of terrifying things in this year of horror is one, the way that China has come up with its economy booming while every other economy in the world has been hamstrung, but also the great reset and also its ugly cousin Agenda 2030, the UN's sort of globalist takeover, they have both accelerated towards their end goal and I'm really frightened because I don't think a lot of people, a lot of people still stuck on the idea, oh it's tinfoil hat territory, oh it's a conspiracy theory. The great reset is talked about every day by the World Economic Forum and Klaus Schwab, the sinister ball German guy who invented, who founded the WEF, it's talked about by Prince Charles, every time he uses the phrase build back better, by Boris Johnson, by Justin Trudeau, it was the campaign slogan of Joe Biden of course. So we are being accelerated, the coronavirus pandemic has been used as an excuse to accelerate us towards a world where we are going to, the government has much more control, where we have far less freedom, where it looks like cash is going to be abolished, where property rights may be abolished, where there is this thing called a universal basic income which gives the government the right to decide how we live our lives because after all they're going to be in their eyes bankrolling us from now on. I mean give me some hope here, I see a lot of bad happening, I don't see any pushback. Okay so yeah the first thing is, yeah I don't, a couple things, we have to distinguish between things that, let me pull back and see if I can, okay, let me go lateral a little bit and then I'll circle back. There was a woman named Jane Jacobs and she lived in New York and she was, she was one of the finest kind of and keenest observers of urban life who's maybe ever put pen to paper. She wrote a famous book called The Death and Life of Great American Cities, she loved cities and she is most famous for having gone up against Robert Moses, talking about government overreach, talking about people, you know, central planners exerting top-down control, you know, Robert and in an undemocratic way because no one could really knew how to get rid of Robert Moses, right, you know, where did you get your power, how did you come back, how did we get rid of you, okay, Robert Moses, the power broker and Robert Moses is almost single-handedly responsible for the destruction of many formerly viable urban neighborhoods in New York City because he had, When was he around this guy, Robert Moses? This was back in the 50s, right, 40s and 50s I believe and he, you know, East Trimont in the Bronx is one example of a neighborhood he destroyed, you know, with the Cross Bronx Expressway. Robert Moses was basically, he caught the virus that the, this kind of, you know, how some of these bad ideas come from Europe, sorry Europeans, but you know, so there was, listen, there was a nasty little Swiss man named Le Corbusier, that was his, his, oh yes, horrible, yeah, okay, right, so Le Corbusier had this city called the Radiant City, right and everyone was supposed to kind of, yeah, working people will live here and it'll all be this big grid and everything will be like, you know, it'll be like clockwork, okay, and of course, when he, when he went to, to the Parisian authorities to try to sell that idea, they told him to go soak his head, so he came here and Robert Moses fell in love with the Radiant City and actually, if you look at, if you look at layouts, models of the original Radiant City plans and then you look in New York City, you look at very many housing projects, you know, high-rise housing projects, they look exactly like Radiant City, that's not an accident, okay, so anyway, Robert Moses wanted to plow a highway through the middle of Manhattan, he would have destroyed the West Village of Manhattan and Jane Jacobs was a resident and she organized, you know, local residents and went up against Robert Moses and won, okay, and that's why there is not a highway running through the middle of the West Village of Manhattan. Now, the death and life of great American cities. One of the things she said, one of my favorite quotes from her is that poverty has no causes, only prosperity has causes, okay, so you know, people like to ask, well, how come there's, you know, this, you hear this from progressives a lot, how come there's so much poverty and so much stuff that after that and what she says is, listen, poverty has no causes, only prosperity has causes, you know, those poverty is the baseline condition of humankind and it's only kind of by concerted action and by, you know, coming together and organizing ourselves in certain ways, okay, many of those ways spontaneous and ad hoc and not possible to plan centrally that we can, that we can overcome poverty and we have overcome poverty, so and that's obviously true. Now, I steal from her shamelessly all the time. This past summer, I had a lot of my conservative friends, even some of my progressive friends, well, I'm trying to red pill, you know, well, why, how come there's so much violence? How come there's a, people ask me, how come there's so much enmity between the so-called races and how come this black, white, there's no, what I tell them is, stealing from Ms. Jacobs is that conflict has no causes, only peace has causes, because conflict is also the baseline condition of humanity and we should know this, especially as Westerners, because as Westerners, as, you know, the denizens of Western civilization, one of our foundational documents, namely the Bible, tells us this in the very first book of Moses, Genesis, because in that book, right, the first crime is a homicide. I'm sorry, the first crime is a fratricide, right, right, the very first thing, you know, that post-Lapsarian humans do, is haul off and kill each other, right, and I keep telling people there's a reason why that story, the story of Cain and Abel shows up at that place in the Bible, right near the beginning, because it's one of the most important things for us to know. Conflict has no causes, only peace has causes. Now, circling back to what you're talking about, bureaucratic overreach has no causes, only limited government has causes. That is to say, it is in the nature of bureaucrats to overreach and to centralize and to try to preserve their own relevance at any cost, that is what they do all the time in every country, every, everywhere, okay. Only, it's only a kind of an ironclad discipline and kind of an understanding of why limited government is so important, okay, and judicious policy, judicious economic policy and social policy that make sure that people, that we keep the level of risk that the ordinary person has to confront to manageable levels. It's only that that allows us to really keep some kind of check on government overreach. It's only divided government, it's only fractious and kind of rambunctious divided government that prevents that. So, now, I'm rambling a little bit, but let me, I want to really answer your question, is it? So, I don't, I don't have to go look for any, and again, I'm not absolving George Soros of anything. Listen, George Soros is plenty grimy, don't get me wrong. Bill Gates is plenty grimy. Mark Zuckerberg is plenty grimy. Jack Dorsey, don't get me started on Jack goddamn Dorsey. But, and the news media, same thing, but what I'm saying is, I don't have to look for any special causes for why bureaucracies around the world are trying to centralize their power and try to consolidate things and try to put themselves at the center because that is what bureaucracies do. And the problem we have specifically, I think, in the West, you know, China is a different story, but the problem we have in the West is that we have, we have allowed too much power to centralize in too few hands. And what that means is when the number of hands is that small, when the number of pairs of hands is that small, anything they do looks like a conspiracy. Whether it is one or not, if you want to believe it is, that's fine. Again, you are not unreasonable to believe it is. You're not crazy to think all this stuff is, is okay. But what I'm saying is, it is not, it is not necessary to believe it, to understand why it is happening. It's happening because that is what bureaucracies are. Now, you know, how do we fight against that? We have to decentralize. And this is what I'm going on about all the time. It's like, we have, you know, we talk about social media, you know, as a tech guy, I'm big, I've been pushing people to, you know, start your own platforms. Contact me at the foundation society. I'm not charging any money. I don't want any money from you. I don't want any donations. I just, I just want to show young conservatives with something to say, how to get, how to build platforms where they get to say what they have to say, and reach out and connect to the audience without YouTube getting a veto, or without Twitter getting a veto, or without Facebook getting a veto. I will do this for you for free. But this is what we have to do. And the answer is not going to be building another monolith. You know, everyone's talking about Parler. Well, Parler is what it is. I don't care, but you know, I'm neither a fan nor a detractor. I'm just saying it can't be about building another monolith to challenge the mountain because then when that other monolith goes away, then we have the same problem just in, you know, clothed in different garments. So, you know, smallness, smallness, smallness, decentralization, keeping the pressure on, okay, and, and persuasion, persuasion, persuasion. This is politics at the end of the day. If you are not persuading, you are losing. And then outreach, outreach, outreach, the Democrats do not have a good case to make for themselves. And the extent to which they were able to, to, to do anything consequential in the cities is not a success on the part of the Democratic Party. It is a failure on the part of the Republican Party. Those failures are reversible. They can fix this, but they have to care about fixing it. And so there's plenty of hope around, you know, that this is not, you know, again, at the end of the day, these people are not 10 feet tall. They're not invulnerable. And again, by the look of the most recent election shenanigans, they're not even competent. So, so there's plenty of ways to push back and push back, we should. And we can. So, so I don't, you know, and by the way, I just want to say the other thing is that is that, you know, we have to be careful, you know, look, it's, it's no good to be, it's no good to be a Pollyanna. It's no good to be a pan gloss. It's no good to just say everything is lovely. What have you? Okay. And I don't want to call myself a kind of like saying everything is going to be okay when it's not. But I'm, I'm, I also don't want to catch myself in the thing that a lot of conservatives do, which is to be moan. Oh, you know, the end is nigh, all is lost. Because again, what, who we try to look to get young people coming up all the time, whose side do they want to be on? Do they want to be on the side of people who are, who are kind of energized and who think we're going to turn things around? Because that's what the progressives have for them. Yeah, their ideas, listen, their ideas about how to turn things around are stupid. And in fact, they're so stupid and so wrong that if, if they're allowed to be implemented, they're going to get a lot of people killed and they're going to immiserate plenty more people. And you know, I'm looking at you, Green New Deal, I'm looking at you, Socialist Economics, all that stuff. Okay. But at the same time, if people on our side, if all the young people coming up here from us is, oh, it's over, you know, it's going to the da, there's a huge global thing and we can't do anything about it, then listen, they're just not going to go your way. They're not. I'm sorry, because people, at the end of the day, people want, people, people don't want that. So I'm sorry, go on. No, okay, look, okay, pessimism, obviously, pessimism of the intellect, optimism of the will, I, I mean, that's that's obviously the default position for us kind of revolutionaries. I just, I can't really buy into your optimism right now. And by the way, I think after this, I'm going to ask you another question, then we're going to wrap up. So I've got to, I've got to go and have, but I'll tell you why, why I'm, I'm particularly worried. I understand that, that, you know, we've got to keep on fighting and that bureaucracies will always try and be bureaucratic and so on. But looking at what's happened, for example, in my own country, and I talk about this on my forthcoming podcast with Laura Perens, who's very good on this, you know, she talks about the feminization of our color, of our culture, of our culture. And I, you know, I look around. And although I'm very heartened when I look at that university in Manchester, where the kids knocked down the wall, I mean, I think that's showing some spirit. And I like the way that this, this crackdown, this lockdown nonsense has my, my children, and I hope it's going to do a lot to radicalize the using, I hope it's going to turn them against coming against collectivism and all its manifestations being fascism or communism. I mean, they're all, they're all ends of the same turd. It's, it's, it's, you know, collectivism versus free market. But what bothers me is this, look, we know that history goes in cycles that empires rise and fall. We are displaying all the, all the, the facets, all the, all the grim signs of an empire in terrible decline. And it's all very well saying, yeah, of course, the human spirit will prevail and we've got to fight bureaucracy and that nice woman that you mentioned, she, she saved Central Park. Yeah. But the thing is, say you'd been born in Russia in 1917, you would have spent your entire life living under the yoke of communism. So you'd been born, born in Mao's China, you'd have had the same thing. Say you'd been born at any time over a period of hundreds of years in the Persian empire, you'd have been, you'd have been a slave. The natural, the default position for humans is, is misery and slavery. Absolutely. Yes. Certainly. And personally, having had a taste of what the free world is like, I don't want to go back to it, but I'm seeing that the world is changing in an unrecognizable way. Anyway, we're going to continue this conversation another time. I think your comeback will be, will be too long. Yeah. Okay. Have you read Alan Bakari's brilliant book, Deleted? No. Okay. Alan, Alan is the, he's the tech, senior tech correspondent at Brightbar. He's a brilliant guy. He's one of the few tech reporters who hasn't been brought off by, by big tech. Wait, wait, how do you spell his name? Alan? No, no, he's got a wits. Alan, as in a double L U M. Okay. Oh, and then Bakari. I'm seeing it. Okay. There we go. Okay. B-O-K-H-A-R-I. He's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a great kid. Okay. Alan, once you read his book, you will realize the most worrying thing if Biden is allowed to steal this election. It basically means that big tech has won. Big tech, anyway, kind of pretty much stole this election or went a long way towards stealing with it. In his second term, which I think in a way would count as the first term for most presidents, because, because basically Trump spent most of his first term fighting his own administration and fighting the deep state and being undermined. So this would be his first chance to actually have a properly Trumpian agenda. One of the things he was going to do, what the guy he'd put in charge of the FCC was going to hold big tech to account and ensure some degree of, of equity where conservatives are concerned. We've already seen that the triumphalism that is taking place on Twitter, Facebook, et cetera, they're already flexing their muscles, ready to shut down conservatives, anticipating the Biden victory. Imagine how much worse it's going to get. So, so, so, okay. So, so this is a long way of asking, asking my question and asking you as a check-in. Yeah. At the moment, we are all conservatives and liberals alike, extremely vulnerable to the fact that we are all plugged in in some way. We are all clients of, of, of big tech. Yes. And they have access to all our data. They know everything about us. Well, wait a minute. I forget, I forget, I forget the term. But I was talking about, sorry, no, this is my, I haven't asked you my question yet. This is the clever bit. Okay. Alan was talking about how there is a move towards having computers or things where instead of big tech knowing all our details, we have our own private things that do that. Correct. Well, how do we get these things? How soon are they, and are they, are they going to rescue us? Well, okay, first of all, no technology is going to rescue you because technology can't rescue anybody. We have to rescue ourselves and we have to use the instruments available to us, which are technological instruments. Now, there are several things I know, you know, you've got to go soon. But very quickly, let me try to cover as much of the ground as I can. First of all, they don't know everything about us. Yeah, they'll be too polyamorous. Right. They don't know everything about us. They don't. Okay. Listen, this is the water I swim in. This is what I do for a living. They don't know everything about us. They know what we, what we actively or passively disclose. But you see, just even if, let's just say if you're staying with the social media, you're staying on, you have your Gmail account, you have your social media accounts, whatever, there are very many things you can do. Okay. To keep your activity, to keep your activity from being monitored, and to keep, to keep secrets to yourself. Okay. There are things you can do, even if you use those platforms. And then the moments you start to deviate from those platforms, there's even more you can do. So it's not true that the quote unquote, they know everything. A lot of what they quote unquote know is not known. It's inferred. And it's inferred because so-called AI and so-called machine learning, all right, and AI is a misnomer. Computers are as dumb as rocks. They're not thinking. They're not intelligent. So much of that is simply statistical inference. That's all it is. Okay. And it's just, and because big tech has big money, they can throw lots of manpower at these software development efforts, and they can throw lots of computing power at these efforts. They can do lots of statistical inferences. And many times the inferences are, they only have to be, they don't have to be correct 100% of the time. Their inferences only have to be correct enough to justify an advertising spend. That's how this game works. Now, what can, so what can we do to break out of this? Well, the short answer is we have to break out of it. And it's not hard to break out of it. This is a problem of habit. I mean, I'm sorry, but there is, you know, I've, look, I have, I have a website. I'm not going to say the website name because I don't want to be seen to be plugging myself at this moment, but it's like, I have a website. Well, you can people will put, yeah, that which is fine. But people, look, people can, if people, people know what my Twitter handle is, obviously, if you go to my Twitter profile, you see my website on there. Now, there are a lot of people who don't want to go to the website and click around the web. They'll be talking to me on Twitter and it's like, well, did you go to the website and look at the, look at the podcast page? I have an interview with so and so. Oh, I didn't, because it's, it's, and I'm not saying they're bad or what. It's just, it's, it's a habit. We've gotten into the habit of using these walled gardens that Washington can crack down on antitrust on, on, on kind of, on, on, excuse me, on monopolistic practices by these companies, but they can't crack down on people's habits and people's desire to simplify things beyond what's good for our collective habits. So the first answer is we have to be interested in breaking out. If you're using Google as your search engine, use a different search engine. Use more than one search engine. Spend 15 minutes with your web browser and figure out how to change the default search engine. That's a start. In other words, understand. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, please don't listen. This is how you, you don't start at the big end. You start at the small end because you start with what people can do today. Right? So the first thing is understand your instruments. You are a web user. You, you, James Dillingpole have what, 70,000 followers on Twitter? You can talk to 70,000 people at a time, right? Everyone who uses the web. Well, as long as Twitter lets me. Well, okay, but so as long as they let you and, and if they stop letting you, then use something else. But what I'm saying is right now you got 70 something thousand so, or around 70,000. So the thing is, you know, encourage people to start with the basics. Learn how this thing really works. I think I was talking to, I think it was James Black I was talking to about how every age is, is, is, is held captive to its reigning metaphor. The steam age was captive to the metaphors of steam. Okay, the computing age which we're in now is captive to the metaphor of computing and computability. And what allows an age and the people in that age to break out of that captivity is to under, is to get a certain baseline understanding of what the thing is. When a steam engine stopped being an exotic thing and just became some appliance, some thing that, you know, whatever, and people, and there was a broad understanding of how steam worked, then we were able to break out of that metaphor. People need to start developing a broad understanding of how these systems work and not, and not putting these systems on a pedestal. That is the first step. Nothing else good will happen until that happens. Period. Okay, I'm telling you. All right? So you got to know how these systems work. You got to know what it means to, okay, I'm not going to sign up for one service using my Gmail. I'm going to actually make an account on that service. I'm going to decide to use certain services and not to use certain others. Certain services I like to use, or maybe I'll use something different. I'm going to, I'm going to not, you know, for a very simple talking about data harvesting, you know, it's a big data harvesting thing is membership cards at grocery stores or at drug stores, you know, you go, you get a $2 off something if they scan your little membership card. Well, that's data harvesting. If you want your purchasing habits to be more obscure, then pay the extra $2 and don't use membership cards. Okay, now that's one, that's a very small thing. I know. The other thing I want to get to right quickly, because I know you got to go is that, you know, the techies among us, everyone isn't going to do this, right? But, but the one, you know, young conservatives or maybe even older conservatives interested in tech need to start spinning up their own platforms. Twitter at the end of the day is just a bulletin board system. Okay, when I was a young tech coming up, you know, I used, that was, that was social media and there were a million of them. This is possible to do people just are not doing it. And again, Washington can't help us here. Oh, my doorbell just rang. Thank you. Give me one second. Well, okay, wait, wait, 30 seconds. Hello, it's me. It's the James Delling poll show, carbon might's gone away. And I'm your entertainment. I still think he's, he's been too polyamorous. I think I think we're doomed. I don't know where we go to either. I don't know where we flee to. I mean, New Zealand obviously isn't an option. Whereas there's not an option. Everywhere is not an option. Costa Rica, what's that like? I don't know, you know, Virgin Islands, are they going to be still tax havens by the time the great reset's done with us? I'm not so sure. Switzerland, home of Clash Schwab. Oh, okay, I am back because of the big because of the COVID freak out. The delivery people will just leave your packages on the step and run away. Of course there will. Any, any fucking excuse. Exactly. Exactly. So I mean, that's another thing. They'll just blame COVID. Exactly. But look, anyway, you want to reassure me? Yes. So, so listen, you know, we can because guys, just briefly, can I say that the implied advice that use Duck Duck Go as opposed to Google, I'm not really, I'm not really having my terror about the future allayed by that. Well, and nor should you because that's nor should you because that's not the advice. What I'm saying is, you know, doing things like that, in other words, what I'm saying, what I'm saying to you is something very conservative. We need to first change, we need discipline ourselves and alter our habits of mind, right? And we need to, we need to become smarter about the environment that we are working in. That's the first step. It's not the only step, but it's the first step. Listen, this is not going to be turned around just because people stop using Google and start using Duck Duck Go. I'm not saying that at all. And I think you know me better than that. You know, history doesn't work like that. But what I am saying is that, you know, this is, we have to begin to build a discipline and kind of a systematic understanding of what these systems are, how they work and how we can work around them and how we can make them less relevant. But we can't make them, we can't make these, listen, you and I want Twitter to be less relevant because, because Vactus Twitter doesn't, Twitter wants to be, wants to be a gatekeeper. You and I want Google to be less relevant because Google wants to be a gatekeeper. They want, they think they have some formula for figuring out what's true or not. And you and I know that's bullshit. Okay, so, but we, that cannot happen without us, the change has to come from us first. Can Washington help? Yes, but they can't do this for us. That's what I'm saying. It doesn't matter what they pass in Washington. And do I think they should be broken up for antitrust? Yeah, there is a compelling reason to say they should, they should be broken up for antitrust reasons, you know, as a monopoly. But, you know, at the end of the day, that's not going to, that's not going to save us. Trump doesn't get back. Listen, again, the president is only the president and four years is a short time. Okay. So, so I'm not buying that. I'm not buying that. I'm so totally not buying that. Not buying what that the president is only the president. I'm, yeah, the four years is four years. No, no, no, this is, this is the line that I hear from a lot of kind of centrist conservatives, you know, or, you know, people like Dan Hannon. I know centrist. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you are, but you do have probably an attendant. No, I don't know. I don't listen. Listen, listen, wait, wait, wait, wait, I want to stop you right now. Listen. Okay. So this is, wait, wait, wait, wait, this is this is going to be hard work. And we may not succeed. But you miss 100% of the shots you don't take. All right. So, so this is not no kind of centrist. Nothing. Listen, what do you expect that you you think Donald Trump is going to save you from Google? No, of course not. Listen, we're going to know the SEC can't say up until now. If you listen, you and I both James, come on, brother, you and I both conservatives, if you don't think the federal government can save you can save people from poverty, what the fuck makes you think they can save you from from Google? Come on. I don't think I don't think the federal government can save you from poverty. This is my point. Massive, the massive monopolies need, need breaking out. And what happens? And what happens? Well, okay, wait a minute, but when, when, when, when, when, when Theodore Roosevelt broke up standard oil, okay, did he prevent Exxon from coming into existence? Exxon mobile from coming into, no, in other words, this is why would you want to do that? Well, what I'm getting at is that, okay, so let's say that Google gets broken up. Okay, so the next big tech monopoly rises over half many years, then we'll have that problem. And what I'm getting at is, look, we have to, you know, we have to start with changing our habits and changing our disciplines. Twitter will become less relevant if we use it less. And, and part of doing that is going to be building, you know, you know, people building instant not institution sorry, actually building infrastructure to support social networks. Listen, social networks operate at a scale that is not a human scale. That's a problem. Okay, and, and so we have to shrink that scale. The proper scale of a social network is, is, you know, a couple hundred people. The proper scale of a social network is your front porch, your living room, the people who you like to talk to, the people who you like to talk about ideas with. Okay, you know, and, and Twitter is not going to build that for us. They listen any company like that, whether it's Facebook, Twitter, Google would have you because they don't charge for their services. And because they want to operate at a certain scale, they have to go toward mass surveillance, have to, because they don't charge you, the product is free and therefore you are the product. So the only way around that is to build smaller social networks, okay, using the tools that are all over the place available for us, everything's open source, and, and encourage our friends and family to get in touch with us using those social networks. And I got several open source projects going on. I'm not going to talk about them in depth now, but that's the point. And people like, and by the way, there's other people like me in the industry, okay, who are ready and willing to step up and help people who want to change, who want to, who want to start to build kind of alternatives to these systems, build those options. We got to build something that's better than what we've got. But, but if we sit back and say, oh, everything's lost unless the right lawsuit makes it in front of the right court and, and, and, and Google loses or Facebook loses. No, not good enough, not conservative enough. Huh? Well, yeah, maybe, but who said, but who said, who said we were going to, who said any of this was going to be easy? I didn't know. Okay, well, look, the light, the light of doom, which is flashing in my face, giving people epileptic fits, is telling me that the battery is, the battery's had enough. And I think I've got to go, my wife's been making me a curry while we've, while we've been listening to it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, chicken curry with coconuts and roasted, lots of roasted coriander. Oh man, that's good. You know, don't don't get dragged for cultural appropriation now because, you know, it's white people are supposed to make curry. Okay, look, come on. It's really good to talk to you again. And I, and thank you to all our listeners for sitting with us in this, our first ever, what are they, what are they called these things? Livestream. Livestream our first ever Livestream. I've never done a Livestream before. I'm happy to do more. Although, do you know what I want? I want those flickery, I want, I want to screen with all those pretty like fish and whatever the swim up, you know, and everyone goes blip and, you know, you see, you know what I mean? You see sort of shapes and things, don't you? And you see people's comments and they give you money. That's what I want. I want money. You want the super chats. Well, yeah, so we got to get on separately. And I got to show you how to do this on your side so that you can see it. So you can spend, I can spend one up, you can spin up and get some super chats and what have you. Because I mean, this is, I mean, I've got to, I work two jobs. So I'm good to go. But you, this is, this is this online media thing. This is your thing. So I want to make sure that you can do this and kind of, yeah, yeah, yeah. So always guess it was my thing, which you were given how crap I am. But yeah, anyway, great talking to you, Calvin, Mike and Bob I friendly viewers and see you again soon. I hope you let's do this another one soon. I hope president Trump will still be president when we do the next one. So do I. So yeah, thanks everyone for listening and always a pleasure, James. Talk to you again soon. Thank you. Thank you. Bye. Take care. Bye bye. Bye. Okay.