 Welcome to the show. And what I want to do is give you kind of the formal intro. So this is what I had. So one, I want to say a huge congratulations on like an incredible 2021 year, you know, fifth at the Olympic games. Now, and you know, and a lot of people I mean that is amazing, right? You're an Olympic finalist fifth place. And so to say congratulations is like, yeah, okay, right? Like, yeah, nice. Thank you fifth place. Yes, I'm very proud. But this is what I think to put in perspective that if people are going, wow, yeah, fifth, that's amazing. What's amazing is that it was fifth at the greatest shot put Olympics ever, right? Like, so your 2141, right? That was your PR. So this is the things that I think are incredible are your PR going into this season. You PR your first meet of the year hit the standard by a centimeter. And then right and then you were so you kind of knew your tickets punch will get into that you're representing Italy and all that interesting stuff. And this is a long congratulations but so, but the fact is you PR in the qualifying you PR in the final so PB right sometimes we interchange PR and PB in the US. So, so I think it's just that's incredible that you know you perform the rest of the season's lights out so you you hadn't hit another PR and tell the qualifying of the Olympics so you bring it at the best time, which you know I'm sure your coach is like going out of his mind to I want to I'm going to get to all that I want to hear about all the stuff. So, you know you throw 2141 in the final. And you literally that throw would have won, like, all kinds of Olympic games like you would have won 2000 you would have won 2004. Those are those names are like great Adam Nelson, you know you've got John Godina and 96 didn't throw 2141 like he's got multiple Olympic medals, you would have meddled in virtually, I think the only Olympics you didn't wouldn't have meddled in it was this one, and in 1988, which was like all the freaks from back in right Timmerman and Gunther and Randy Barnes right. So that was the second that's when you know, obviously, so that's my big introduction so to say again congratulations congratulations on fifth place at the greatest Olympic final in history. It's just, it's awesome so congratulations. Thank you so much I think it's nice to hear it with in that much context I think you know I obviously understand that I'm a, I am involved in the sport but I think for a lot of people that don't necessarily understand that it's nice to put into context I feel very proud, even though, even though it is with regards to my own performance I understand all that went in there but it really was a fairytale in many aspects. Yeah, you know so I like I said I have a ton of ton of questions. You know, I did some research on you, you sound like a really cool young guy like you got it sounds really put together I want to get into that in a little bit will go through. And I'll ask you about kind of, you know, kind of on your personal interest side you sound like you got a great positive mindset it sounds like you're in like you, it sounds like you have an interest in that kind of stuff like, you know, positivity. You know, just the psyche in the mind, and different things like that, but looking at your situation you're South African, you know, born and raised but I saw that your, your grandfather right is an Italian, and your mom has an Italian passport and it sounded like, you know, you have a sister and you guys had been working on like dual citizenship it sounds like when you started as a kid. Right. Exactly. Yeah, so, so how do you. You know, looking at your progression to and like you said a fairy tale, you really are now the thing that makes this when I said all that stuff to about the introduction and anybody watching. I've looked, you know, we have a post we're probably going to put on our Instagram today and I think it's a post of you throwing in its post against of Jaco Gil we kind of do one of those what's your who's your favorite kind of a thing right yeah. So we have this picture and I don't know in you I swear to God you look like you're you weigh like 240 pounds in this video. And, and I'm like you just told me earlier when before we started that you were you you weigh 114 kilos so you're right about 250 pounds, which is like unbelievable like pound for pound you were the best guy at the games. Right. Now you've got Crouser Walsh. I mean the four guys ahead of you. They're not just four guys they're the they're like for the greatest guys ever right which makes this why this is the greatest Olympic shop put final in history. I've been toe to toe with like darling Romani and he's a monster right like darlin's just jacked. Yeah, you know, and I, and I being an American, you know, I've, I've, I've known, you know, Joe covox his art venegas was his coach for a lot of years that was my collegiate coach had a big influence on me. Ryan Crouser, you know, I've spoken to him a few times seen him at some key meets and different things and he's huge too right and he's bigger like I've taken a picture with Ryan I look like a, like a shrimp and I'm 63 and a half. You know so I'm probably about your height, you're, I'm an old skinny guy now so I only weigh like, you know, 100 kilos now or something but I'm a young skinny guy. You're so so I so I'm looking at your progression and kind of talking about how we get there so we've got a couple of things I want to talk about ask you about the decision to compete for South Africa because funny enough an Italian teammate of yours, Nick Ponzi. I actually coach Nick Ponzi in high school. So when he was a high school, he threw 21. I think he threw about 2115 with a 5.45 shot. So I started coaching him he was throwing about 1830. And then after I'd been coaching him about nine weeks he threw 21. He had a huge PR so I coach huge job. Yeah, thanks so I so funny enough there's a little bit like kind of no and I know how much did you get to know Nick at all you guys travel as a delegation or was you know that kind of thing. So I got to meet Nick quite early on we we said it was our university when we first got there before we moved into the village. And so we were there for a few days with Nick, but we had all our separate rooms and then when we actually moved into the village I roomed with Nick for a bit. And yeah so I got to know him reasonably well in a short space of time, but yeah that's that's that's basically a good guy, a great shop put a you have him before obviously coming over to Italy. And yeah, nice, nice to have them they I think you know, a rising tide raises all ships. Yeah that's interesting and now now that said you, you train with coach Paulo de Saglio right. So that guy, he's, you know, two time Olympian, right around a 70, I think, right around a 70 foot PR right I think like 2123 123 exactly. Yeah, yeah. And so he, he, he had been coaching it fabric right Leonardo Fabri, as I say that right. Exactly. Okay, okay good. You know the interesting like I'm going to give it over to you because there was this decision you're South African you again you have this family connection sounds like a long process like and you eventually did this and you made the decision to throw for Italy before you broke out. Right, like I think you officially started representing Italy in 2020 and up to that point you'd only had like a 19 meter PR and not to say only but you know that I think the level of men's shop put over the last four or five years has been incredible, you know, every everything has gone up like on all levels. And so 19 meters, a few years ago like literally, you know in 2019 right you had 1909 so you'd barely scratched 19 meters, and, and then you start you you in that process clearly became an Italian citizen, and then you found coach I hope I'm saying that relatively correct. Okay, and, and that's an interesting thing so I'm going to just let you kind of explain how you kind of how you know how did you make that decision because I'm sure that's always a tough call. You know you're you're you're born and raised in one country and it sounds like you got the best of both worlds now it sounds like you get to go live and when the weather's good and both spots at this point. And you really took off it did I get this right in 2019 you look like you only had about three competitions. Is that. No it's a 29, you know I think I had a few more than three. I think it might have been, it might have been but but maybe six, you know, not a huge, not a huge bunch but definitely more than three. Okay, and then in 2020 you become an Italian citizen and you start looks like you're really hitting a lot of competitions over in Italy. And so yeah so tell us a little about that. I'll ask you about how you met, you know your current coach, and what you guys have done together is fantastic. And, you know, so yeah I'm, I'm all ears I'd love to love to hear it. Okay. Thank you. So I'll try, I'll try make this long story a short story but when it's our study at university from 2014 to 2018 graduated and sort of messed around with the output but the university was very academic intensive and the way that sort of South Africa is set up. It's very difficult to you know have a good quality of life without university education. It's not impossible but it certainly makes it a little bit easier I think, especially if you're going to go into the professions accounting medicine engineering. Okay, so I went to university and dabbled in shop but took it seriously. And I remember either, I think it was 2016 I got a PR or PV of 1697. And that was also happy with that and I was super confident with 1697 you know I had very little competition and there was no one really around at that stage doing anything bigger. 123. And you know, when I look back now it's unbelievably confident with 1697. Then I sort of probably should have been, but took sort of carry that all the way to the end of university and even in February 2019 that was my, that was my PV is 1697. Okay, and I'd always agreed with my parents that I wanted to, you know, give shop put as a career a try. I sort of understood and agreed and was super supportive but said, you know, get the education first. And then the sort of gentlemen's agreement with the both of them was that I'd have two years with that sort of financially support me. And, you know, with accommodation, the food like the bear necessity is nothing extravagant. Right. So when I went up to Johannesburg to be coached by a coach South African coach Pia Blachnott up there. In my opinion was the best at the time and maybe still fall for my own personal character. So I went up there and after two months of being up there he was diagnosed with the mouth cancer. Yeah, exactly. So he stopped coaching, obviously to focus on things for more important, which kind of left me a little bit stranded. And that was when I started training with a guy named ratio criminal who's also Italian South African. Okay. And being in Joe Berg I was in the process of already getting my Italian passport we had tried because I you have a birthright, obviously at birth. But it was extremely complicated at the time for logistical reasons financial reasons, and also just administration confusion to speak on the phone try speak to the right person understand everything you have to submit and was a long process. And, you know, so it got to the point of like, you know, being very frustrated, we couldn't get our citizenship and you know with with life just happening, we sort of couldn't get it when we wanted it. So we had said, you know, when I got to Joe Berg and we have the consulate in the province, I can sort of manage everything. And so in doing when I was up there I started the paperwork, and then in training with a variety of criminal he he suggested to me. You know, we were speaking, I said, I believe you're Italian, why didn't you compete for Italy, etc, etc. And he gave me his reasons and he he actually recommended Paolo Del Solio. And the first time that was the first time I'd heard of Paolo. Okay, I'm obviously a fan of shop with but I really don't follow too much of the history of shop with I'm kind of like, we'll get more into that I'm sure but later but you know I'm more of a fan of the sport as a vehicle, as opposed to you know just being a shop with crazy. Okay, I'm not particularly sentimental to the sport, which might disappoint a lot of people but I still think there's a lot of value in using it the way that I do. And so anyway, so that's the sort of the Italian part. Okay, and so he sort of kind of we spoke a bit and he gave me a few pointers and so I took his advice and then and got finally got the passport of the lot of back and forth and trouble. But then when once I had the passport. And in and around before I moved to Joe Berg my grandfather very recently was diagnosed with Alzheimer's a huge sort of early interest someone that got me involved in sports and he used to actually, he wasn't a man of many words and I think that had a lot to do with the language barrier and I'm understanding that now, especially being in Italy and learning the language and understanding the guts, the courage, the, the ability to sit down and study. And, you know, like I say he was used to come and support us and he was always sitting in the stands never said a word but he was there you know and that was something that that take a lot from that just that presence. And so when you're diagnosed with Alzheimer's and you know you kind of stop recognizing me and my other, my sister and cousins, and my coach was the coach at the time was diagnosed with my cancer. I just left university so I was like a weird transitional phase in my life. And it was like a combination of many factors and you know just searching for meaning and trying to understand what am I going to do. I've got my interests I've got my education, but I've got my passion and I've got my questions. And so you know that kind of all came to a point when I was thinking about doing something that was meaningful to me, because I think it has to start there. That was when I kind of like drew a lot of inspiration from my grandfather's personal story and leaving his family in, you know, going into a new land to try and enrich himself to give himself the, the, the laugh he wanted. Taking on all the risks, the uncertainty, the challenges. There's a lot I admire about him and in a way it was, it was something that gave me meaning in imitating the reverse of what he's done. But in doing that sharing sharing a lot of the challenges that he would have had in a way sort of give me a taste of what he went through. I mean, it's been fascinating to be an Italian to see so many of his characteristics that I thought were unique to him as an individual, but a lot of it has to do with the Italian culture and name to see what was actually unique to him and it's beautiful but it's it's difficult and often think about how difficult it must have been for him without the technology that we have now. Yeah, right. But it's, you know, I think a lot of people are quick to assume that it was a financial decision. And, you know, when I think a lot of people forget that when I went over I was in no position to earn money. Okay. And, and I wasn't even aware of maybe the, the financial implications I didn't know you know I was so out of touch with the South African setup and the support for the athletes. And I had absolutely no idea what it was like in Italy. And so you know when I was reaching out to people it was kind of in a way of just first of all looking for a coach and searching for a better meaning personally and imitating the the reverse sort of trip of my grandfather and that's kind of the sort of the short version of why I decided to go and do that and like you said it's not an easy decision. I often reflect on how beautiful it would be to wake up in the morning at a house at a house I would have a really close family you know with my parents will be close to my parents you know off the tough day of training come home, share dinner share a meal with them and you can be there for them they're not getting any younger I've got 89 year old grand. That's also you know quite an important part of my life and she's not getting any young and you know spending eight months at a time away from the people that I love the most often has me weighing up a lot of the, the, the meaning of how, how important is this actually to me so even a few times I've thought of like, you know, is it worth it and almost thinking not. I'm happy to be here now and I'm happy to finally, and this is not this is not before I did well this was even after the Olympics you know I was having these thoughts my environments is so intense and so disciplined and and non diverse it's so one track that's been a lot of the reason for my success but it's been a lot of the reason for the, the difficulty. And so I'm getting into a place now I'm sort of finally being maybe a bit more clear about what I want how I want it and so I think as I can be a bit more independent in Italy learn a bit of the language have a bit more saying what I do when I do it. I think that'll give me a bit more peace of mind but it certainly hasn't been easy. And so you're living in Italy, roughly about eight months out of the year now. That's kind of what it totals up to have for the last two years. And also so when I eventually went over to Italy, I was very fortunate enough to move in with my coach because what happened I was there sort of seven days before the national lockdown. Oh, wow. And my coach said to me, you know, you're more than welcome to stay with me but we understand you know these this is back in the beginning when no one really knew what was happening you know if you'd like to go home and be with your family. And that was a tough decision but I was like, I'm here, I've sacrificed so much to get this opportunity so I was fortunate enough to move in with him. Yeah, and he's actually he's got a shop of circle on his property from the days he used to train in a beautiful hill. And he's got a bit of a bit of land there that is also sort of works, and it's absolutely beautiful and so you know once a day we were training we're doing technique one day waits the next circuit the following and we do that twice. So it was very life training and that kind of took me from the 1909 to the sort of 90s and the slow progression into the end of that year I think the 2070 and my coach a lot. Yeah, you know I looked at that and your previous, you know, I mean honestly it's really interesting. You've said you said a word a few times and I caught it in some research I was doing on you, and you said the word meeting. And, and I think that's a really interesting thing because you have a very insightful kind of, you know, inward looking view it seems like, and it seems to me, because your success is, is pretty off the charts like I mean if I had a guy come to me with a foot PR so roughly you know whatever 1691. And now when you had that was your thought like I want to try to go make an Olympic team. What was that really in your head. Definitely, it was always the goal. You know, because, because in America, right, we're, we're teaming with, you know, zillions of like 19 and 20, there's like the list USA is crazy right in the shot, like the depth of guys. We could probably put, you know, a dozen guys on Olympic teams all around the world that would be easy, you know, it's incredible. If I had a guy come to me it with, you know, a 55 foot PR saying hey I want to try to make the Olympic team I'd be kind of like this guy's toweled and he's 20 some years old he's hardly thrown like that's a. And I mean it says a ton about mindset right like you've got to be. Okay, I believe in myself, and obviously you prove that and so, you know, coach. Paulo, I'll just call him Paulo that's easier right. So, you know, he sees he sees you coming in so okay but 19 meters at that point I'd say yeah okay 19 meter guy that's it, and you had like 16 comps that year I think and 13 of them were all over your PR so clearly it was a big breakout right I mean, and now all of a sudden 2070 it's like, yeah this is like you're, you're damn near to the standard. So, it. So how do you arrive at all that like you get there you train. How do you go from, you know, you had a and that's really amazing right I always think that's where that's a, that's a great testament to your athletic ability, and it's a great testament to the coaching clearly it's always I think that's a thing that this sport I see more in the US than I see from international throwers but I think you get a lot of guys and they start thinking. It's all you know it's an individual sport and they kind of forget like yeah but the coach is really a vital part of that process or being really is and everybody who's successful has great coaching, and it's that combination of great athletic ability and great coaching. How do you guys you know you guys are training in his backyard, basically right and you've got a whole training set up there, you do, you make that leap you believe in yourself, you go, you know, I mean that's a big decision and but you put yourself in a situation and it all happens which I think is a huge testament like I said to the fact that if you believe in something and you set out the actions to go achieve that, and you know you've done it and so how does how do you, you know you said again it kind of ties me back to the, the mindset and in the meaning of it all. And this is still something you were like you said you use it as a vehicle which I thought was really interesting and it to me that says you have some good balance so I think when you you know I've known some athletes who they get so obsessed about this, and then it's like it becomes not fun for right because they're they're they're working so hard and it's and it's becoming mundane because this is a tough sport this is a lot of work. You know you're always working you're throwing throwing is hard training is hard, you know it and so to have that balance of fun and it sounds like you do a lot of that it sounds to me from what I've researched and talking to you in a short time that you have that good balance so how does that kind of play into the training for you and and how do you feel that that's led to your kind of like success. I think a lot of my mindset especially with having been things outside of shot but has sort of been birthed by the fact that it hasn't been balanced. She had a very, very mixed sporting upbringing, so they're great environment for outdoor activity sport being really popular especially amongst the schooling system. And now did many sports you know I actually play baseball when I was younger, I did water polo hockey crickets hockey rugby, and the list goes on obviously athletics. There's so many sports that I actually did do and so I think that kind of like didn't make me out last one very early on. And I remember actually even getting to high school I think I was 14, and I wasn't even that really interested in athletics because there was no sort of movement behind it we had no training. We kind of just twice a year had these competitions so they could choose the national team etc from a school perspective. And I remember my dad saying to me you know just do it as a supplementary sport you know it can give you a bit of status can give you a bit of purpose and you know it ties into with some of the other sports that you're doing it's explosive. And so I kind of just listened to him and went along with it and that was kind of where it was and then it was only once I sort of fell in love with the individual self mastery aspect of the sport that I kind of went okay I can see myself doing this. And that was that was sort of where it came from and then that was when I sort of honed in on it. University was in my first year university I remember the first time being out of the out of the house I was staying by myself in the residence of university in my own room. And it was first time I kind of felt how meaningful it was to be in charge of your own time and all of a sudden I was saying wow I can actually train three times a day just comes down to my discipline and I remember at that point. I was waking up early I was training in the morning, going to university training at lunch, finishing university and then throwing in the evening so I was like training twice three times a day twice in the gym, once outside and it's not the correct approach but I was just so like happy to be in charge of my time and so excited to be moving and for the first time feeling fully responsible for my success and that's what I love about shot put is, you know, I could not have had the extreme successful rise and any other sports apart from individual sports, because in teams there's kind of you know there's politics there's team selection there's, you know, coaches, favorites, etc, etc, athletics, and I'm sure there's a few other sports but specifically the shot put for me was like, you just you throw the distance, and they can't deny you especially if you're doing it consistently and that's also a big thing that I fell in love with and realizing you know having this, this point in the ground that kind of shows you how well you're doing sports. As only recently I kind of learned that there's so much more to that market than just your physical ability there's so many other mental aspects, and I think you know my very intense environment from a training perspective and very non diverse activities being in Italy. I realize how important that stuff is and I still don't have it 100% right and I'm constantly working on it but having I'm starting to realize the importance of having these other things in your life to sort of push you through and push you forward in the sport. Like I say, you know, having having dinner with your family in the evenings that that's something that I feel could improve my performance that's huge. I don't like the discipline I just like the sort of the other wholesome elements of being a human being and I think that's, you know, my sports done really well but if you're looking for sustainability you got to start feeding these other aspects of the human of the human interests. Okay, so, so you're somebody who obviously sounds like you really like the training process so it was easy for you to start training frequently. Right. If you don't like training you're not going to train three times a day. Exactly. Exactly. So I think I definitely enjoy the training process. That's awesome. Now, when you when you started working with Paolo, what was that like so that was going to be kind of one of the questions. You know, like I said, it funny he was fourth at the Olympics in 96 right he was so he's an Olympic finalist and, you know, he competed in a lot of, you know, European championships and he's got a ton of international throwing experience, and I got to believe that's that's a benefit right because he can, he can kind of help prepare you. How did you guys because when I when I, you know, contacted you about setting up an interview, I'd asked if he could potentially join us, and you said, you know, how's your Italian. And I was like, not not real good how's yours and you're like, not real good either. So, so I so you know, how is that coaching, you know, I, which I think says, even more about how, how good of a coach is that you guys have a language barrier on top of it. And you guys have done all this so tell me about like, working with him, how, you know, how did that process go, especially since you guys have, you know, a language barrier and I'm sure that you're learning more Italian and I'm sure that's getting better. But how was it initially and like how is it now and, and, and, and how did you guys get through that. So I think his English is actually is really good. Okay, and learning a second language I can understand the sort of like anxiety and potential discomfort around having an interview I think in a second language. So I think I mean we can speak clearly relatively easily and he, what I like he's very the way that he sees the sport is beautiful so sorry so just to finish on the first point so I was very fortunate that his English was really good. Okay. And it was just more I think the interview environment and it's like, you know, not understanding etc. Okay, gotcha. So, I was very lucky from that point of view but as a coach, you know, I've psychoanalyzed him quite a lot I find the sort of people's behavior and those sorts of things really interesting. And so I've done a, I observe and, and just observe a lot and I think, you know, he is a he's a fantastic coach he's a fantastic person. And I think what makes him unique is he's just got such an eye and such a passion for for the sport, you know, he, there's a lot else that's important in his life but I don't see him get as passionate about anything else. And so frequently as he does for shot but I think as athletes, we're extremely lucky to have people like that in the sport. And, you know, a lot of people comment on the fact that, you know, both mine and Leo's personal bests are further than his and it's so easy to get caught up in the, you know, we better than our coach, but I think he sacrificed so much of his athletic career experimenting so that we can start where he left off. And that's, that's huge. And he made, he made all the mistakes for us. Now he, now he just tells us the blueprint, you know, and it's not, it's not even that easy he's consistently giving us feedback on every throw. Do this to that and his insight into the technique I'm still I'm still learning I basically do what I'm told I to go from obviously a an athlete coach because I was kind of coaching myself to then just being an athlete. And that's been one of the best things for me because, you know, it's when you're thinking and throwing you extremely slow and so you can't Paul kind of took that away from me and he he kind of gave me the opportunity to just feel through the movement. And he's like, I remember him saying to me he's like, you throw, I'll coach you say, and when you make a mistake, you come back I'll correct you, and you throw again and you just keep trying and that's kind of giving me a lot of sort of freedom in the technique. And I'm still learning the technique and I hope I never really get to a point where it's consistent line a little bit I do I would love it to be more consistent. Yeah, but I don't ever want to be under stimulated by learning because you know there's there's things and training and I feel and I go, wow, that's that's beautiful. You feel efficient, you feel light, you feel explosive, and that's that's really exciting and I don't ever want to lose those new feelings, you know, you'll go through like a month training camp and you feel like your body saw you getting and you just nothing's clicking in the last week, you know one cue you try it, and you go Wow. And I love that feeling and I when I look back so much of the Olympics was a blur to me because I was just so overcome by pretty much everything there but when I look back and I watch the videos now and I look at my technique it's so strange for me to see all the compliments I'm getting technically because I was never technical thrower, and it's it's it's I think that's one of the proudest things for me is that people are complimenting me on something that was always a weakness of one and I think that's just testament to the process of just dedicating yourself tirelessly to something that you enjoy or you know you want to want to do one and I think that for me has been one of the most rewarding things of what I'm doing. Cool. Now you said, you know, creating new feels and you talked about like you have those moments where it like you're kind of struggling everything's there and then something clicks. How do you how like what's the longest period of time maybe you were in one of those points where it was like it didn't feel real great. You go mentally when you hit that point like you're going for a month and now you're starting to get a little frustrated. How long do you can you stay in that point before you need to see that little, you know, that create that little feel that little glimmer that kind of pushes you to the next point. Yeah. I don't know. I feel like I was kind of there for the first 23 years of my life. Do you know what I mean I never understood the technique it always felt heavy it always felt difficult and only with Paolo. Did I feel that and only after trying to think of the first time I felt it. There was a competition in vichenza and we went there two days before the competition just to feel the circle out about 30 minutes from my coach's house. And that's that's one that I remember specifically and you know, I'd had in Italy I probably had over 1000 throws in Italy. And, and I went there and I felt and I went wow. That's that's what throwing is I can remember my coach is it welcome to shop with you know, a beautiful little cheeky Italian with coming through but but, and I felt and I went wow and that's the kind of the feeling I chase and I've been in that search and I'm still in that search. And I was very lucky in the Olympics. When we're in Chocorosa, there was a week before we trained in Italy. Then we went through to Chocorosa hour and we spent two weeks there or just under two weeks. And that was huge I remember spending like hours a day. I don't know a lot but probably 90 minutes every other day visualizing and just going through and trying to feel and then we're trained only once in the afternoon. And I remember going to training and remember thinking like okay I'm going to try this now and it's like it's not it's very unsettling to have one of the biggest competitions in your life and you're still playing around with with with the technique. And I think you know I was when I think but I mean I think I went to the diamond in Doha after my 21 11 qualification and you know competitions have always been a gamble I've never been confident in my technique. And I remember going there and it was you know I had that beautiful big warm up and then I just couldn't get in the competition and I never understood the technique until literally two weeks before the Olympic games. And that was the first time I felt it understood it. And it was it was great and it kind of carried my season from the Olympics and after. Yeah, and to be just to finish off just to finish off there you know it's like, I feel like you lose it quite quickly because I'm still back in that same in that same space I've got a better understanding I've felt the correct model. And you know you're searching to recreate it and improve on it and so that's what I enjoy it so kind of like I don't just want to have it. If I could just go every day to training and feel that I'd get bored so quickly I would have already stopped so that's what I kind of enjoy about it. That's very cool. Now you know what it is sorry it's just kind of stim in some thoughts so as the coach right I think I've run into that with a number of athletes and I find that here with athletes in the states my younger athletes will, I think that's the difference I found. And I think that's what where I'm going with this is that an athlete your age you're 20 you're 25 at the games, right, and you have the trust right, like to say okay we'll play with this tweak I have I have one of my throwers he's a 65 meter discus thrower I you know started training him when he had you know he was pretty much averaging about he was kind of like in your situation he had thrown 58 meters one time, never made it to like the NCAA championships here in the states but, you know, had, but was averaging about 55 56 meters in the discus. He pretty much always would trust me so even when we make a little tweak it's like you just got to trust me to tweak this tweak that he did that so you know we started coaching and 14 by 18 he had thrown, you know, 65 meters multiple US championships championships and different things like that. I have found however other athletes with older athletes, I find that that seems to be a little bit more of the exception rather than the rule that most older athletes freak out. I don't trust the tweaks, whereas I find with my younger athletes is why I've had a lot of success with them they're just like okay I trust you, and then we can make those tweaks last minute. This is a long way of setting up, you make tweaks, literally a couple weeks before the Olympic games that's a that says a lot about the trust between you and your coach, and then clearly the rest of the season was like, I mean you your PR going into games was 21 11, then you go 21 25 to PR and the qualifying 21 41 in the final 21 20 after that 21 32 20 you know then 21 63 so you're just really consistent. And then you have what would you would consider maybe a down meat right you went to Switzerland through 2085. And that you know it's perspective like up and you know, like, your bad meat now is 2085 and then you finish up with 21 66 right and you. And so, how do you get to that point where you trust that tweak two weeks out of the Olympics, and it just totally works. You obviously have to, like you say, trust with your your coaches a big thing and I think my, my biggest disadvantage became my biggest advantage and not having done really well kind of gave me the opportunity to go to my coach and say, you know, save me. Like, I'm literally putty in your hands I've got no idea. And I think it's that whole like laugh long learning principle and you know just being able to be in a space, knowing you don't know what you're doing, and just trusting someone you know it's hard not to trust someone who's come for the Olympics, and someone who's throwing 21 23. And, you know, when I came as a 19.09 meter thrower. Realize that so much to work on like I said, I was never complimented on technique, quite the opposite in fact you know and so when someone is so confident in a model you kind of think like, well I have to trust it. And it was also, it wasn't so much that my coach was making tweaks. He was saying the same things I was just, I was just understanding what he was putting what he meant the whole time. Yeah, yeah, so like, I've come back to him and he said this cue to me that he's been saying to me for six months, and I repeated back to him with excitement because I felt it. And so that's I think that's the most that's the interesting part it wasn't so much as you were saying different things. It was just that I was giving myself the freedom to, or permission to do them. And I think that it is difficult because you get so confident in the model and I still do it today. You get so confident in the model that you think your existing model is the correct feeling. You have to almost be stupid enough to look stupid in trying something different and when you do and it comes off right you think wow, especially what I've learned now in the in the rotational shop put is that is being relaxed and it's so difficult to be relaxed in the correct time because like you say it's 1.4 seconds and you've got to be your timing has to be perfect you know because a fraction of a second changes torsion about two degrees and two degrees is huge. And so I think that that's that's kind of, you know, I approach I remember in the Olympics in the qualification I remember walking into the circle smiling and just think to myself play, play, play. And it's the whole concept of going in there just being like, react, don't predict, and it was just getting in there and try and trying to feel feeling my feet hitting the floor. And I've been trying to get back into that mindset now in preparation for this for this season and it's not as easy as I found it at that time and so you kind of just go through these peaks and troughs. And that's kind of what I'm learning to not necessarily enjoy but surrender to because I think you know there's just so much and when I look back at my season stuff that I've had. I just think that in a weird way there's just been this divine intervention. I'm not extremely or particularly religious, but there's been there's been there's an eerie divine intervention into into my, my story you know I could speak a lot of some of the factors but you know you just mentioned the 13 PRs in the first year. Then, you know, then to get the Olympic qualifier by one centimeter. Not throw kind of near that I threw one in the born of 2105 that was one through not throw near that until the Olympic qualification which is like the most high pressure situation. Yeah, throw 2125 then go into the funnel and like, I'd love to take the credit for that but you know so much of it just becomes subconscious and you, you kind of just have to respond to to the environment. You're in and I think that, you know, being like a child being childlike and just playing and realizing, you know, you aren't that important and just have fun and capitalize on the opportunity gives you permission to to relax and that's kind of how I felt in those in those environments. Yeah, that's awesome. Like I said, I'm a, I like to, I love throwing, you know, I love, I love to coach it there's just something about the time of the year the weather, you know, you're out the grass, it's just, I just take it all in, having fun. Definitely, because it has worked out really well for you. So, so let's do this. Obviously, I could probably ask you a million questions about Apollo and again as a as a coach. It's really cool and it kind of lines up with a lot of the stuff that I think, you know, it's that comfort factor the trust factor. And like you said, you know, you got to go in, I always tell athletes, you know, every year, I got to prep athletes for, you know, big meets and different things like that and I was like well what's the difference between this national meat, and that meet, you know, at the beginning of the season that was low key and didn't matter. And it's like, at the end of the day there's no difference it's the same circle it's the same shot. It's the same thing you're just changing the dynamic in your head so if you go out and treat it like you would any other throw, you should perform well, you know, and sorry just to interject but my only criticism of that is that it's not so much the indifference, but but correctly using that energy and so it's like you know if it if it was just like any other competition you can't use the Olympic games to your advantage. And I think that is that is the that is a concept that I'm still experimenting with that. You know, the Dharma League final, you got this guy from the middle of nowhere in the Dharma League final thrown against guys two years ago I was watching for technique advice. And I'm throwing amongst them in this like weird performance type environment for the shop put and it's weird for me to experience all these things for the first time because you know I never had any athletic success early on I never had any athletic success you know university etc and so now all of a sudden you thrust into this environment. And it's weird and then not only do you have to compete but you have to try and perform. I think that's what I enjoy the most I don't know if my sort of like indifference and I don't indifference is too strong of a word because I am I enjoy the I enjoy shop but but it's almost like the fact that I don't I've got so many other areas of interest in my life, kind of make shop would not become a big thing it's like important enough for me to dedicate such a big percentage of my life towards trying to perfect or master, but it's not big enough, you know, I could walk away from the sport tomorrow and just still be so blessed and so fortunate to have. And so I think that kind of that kind of gives me the confidence to be like you've got nothing to lose, you know, and I remind myself of that very often because there's a lot of situations where you kind of just feel overwhelmed and you kind of just feel like why am I doing this why must be so far along the way and when you remind yourself of those things you know you can walk away at any point you always able to choose what you want to do. And that gives me a lot of confidence and I think what would normally be perceived as heart pressure situations because of, you know, the fact that they are just so many options and just so passionate about so many areas of life. Yeah, that's a, I mean that's a good, healthy balance. And just kind of to say to what you're saying when I was, you know, and I agree with you that was a good point you want to leverage that big comp. Because it's it's it and again kind of the elaborate on even what I was saying too because that was a good counterpoint right you got to leverage it. And I always say the adrenaline in that situation is going to be up no matter what right so so that's where I mean by like, do what you do. Right. And then it's like and let the adrenaline do the work. Right. And that's, and it sounds like you obviously leverage that extremely well. So let's do this. I'm going to shift gears. And like I said when I did my research on you and different things I really loved what I kind of like found out about you. I like your your mindset and you kind of have like almost like a young philosophical, like, you're a young guy with a mature philosophical outlook, I think that's really cool. So, this is, you know, the world record holder the greatest guy ever so that's a cool thing. Right. I mean, I geek out on this to everyone I get to see crowds I mean he's like, by far, not just like, he set the world record. And which I said was always about crowds or was. Yes, it solidifies that he is the absolute greatest ever but his number and volume of throws over like 22 and 2250. He just like crushes everybody historically like you can combine all of these great throwers. The amount of throws and they don't add up to what he's done so he's, he's really is just absolutely amazing. So, agreed. This six seven, 320 pound guy who moves like, you know, like, like a ballerina the guys incredible. And then here's Zane we're at 63 100 and what were you were you 114 kilos at the games as well. No 112 with the game. So you were like more or less exactly. Okay, so I mean it's, it's pretty incredible. Now to put it in perspective to like I was talking about how how impressive, you know, your results are you threw further than Tom Walsh through in Rio. Like Tom Walsh only through 2138 and got a bronze right you through 2141 four years later, those three guys all through essentially a meter further is it's absolutely insane right. So, talk about your technique and how a guy that weighs, you know, 248 pounds is in the Olympic final you're the you're the lightest guy in the Olympic final I know that without even having to look anything up. So, so talk about like, I see, you know, and this is kind of similar to some of the stuff I teach. You look like you have a little more active. You know, you're, you're, you're consciously looking like you're trying to open the, the left arm more aggressively but in a controlled way I always say you open the arm not the chest right because if you open the chest you're going to fall into the throw. So you're creating this sequence obviously between the lower body in the upper body we take this and we put into six pillars funny enough I told you I train mechanics. And then you'd said something earlier, you got to react and that's what I teach my throwers when we throw, we react we don't think we react right we do drills and we do progressions and we figure out mechanics then we rack. So, how you when you do your offset. Tell me at any point where you want me to set like how in again, depending on how much you want to give away or how much insight you want to you know I know so. The, the, the left arm action like crowds are, you know you see what I would say is, he's a chat more chest over arm shoulder chest connected long path. And whereas to me you look like you have a little bit more active right you're, you're not as big as him so speed start to finish. That was something I talked to Joe Kovacs about a couple years ago he said, Ryan so much taller than me. I've got to be fast, right, I've got to use my speed, and he's a freak like Joe's like some superhuman strength levels on top of it right. So, so with you with the left. I notice how it's kind of looks to me like it's an active left side upper body to kind of. I call it pulling yourself kind of you open it and pull yourself into the throw. And then, at what point like in it looks like you consciously obviously try to stop the arm here, so that you can wrap your body and kind of snap it into the power position. Yeah, is that. So, yeah, so I, when I think I think heavily coming out the back I don't even think about the arm I think about the left leg. Okay, I want to, I'm basically just waiting till my toes are kind of pointing the direction that I want to throw. And that's for me that's the hardest part of throwing is waiting for that for that left leg to completely turn, you know, because I'm not my only technique is that you can see the angle of my from my hips through my shoulders in comparison to Ryan I lean a hell of a lot out the circle. Yeah, towards into the circle which is not good for me because that takes the shop people off the axis. And so you know that kind of makes the 7.2 kg a little heavier when it's when it's not above your hips, you know, right, I'm very lucky I think for whatever reason I haven't worked it out I don't know why I've got a few theories but I'm lucky that I'm explosive so I get under it quite quickly. And I think that is something I like to work more on is just keeping the shoulders a little bit more back you can see Ryan's heel is infamously low. Right. Too bad actually in this one. But what that allows you to do then is it takes your central gravity more at the back of the circle. It gives your wider whip around. And that's basically what you're looking for you want your rock foot as far away from you as possible because that's the central fugue or force that generates. And I don't think about anything else after the left foot hits the ground apart from waiting for it to hit the ground again and then the rest kind of just takes care of itself it's like autopilot. Right. So my only my only sensations I kind of focus on is the left at the back and the left in the front and everything else kind of, you know, just bleeds into each other. Very nice. Yeah, you know I call this so my my system we call this, you know, you're wind up I call it pillar one and there's a lot of important variables and in the start, you know, and then this is what I would call the hinge the hinge is the left side we refer to the ankle and the knee and the hip and I coach my throwers. It's it moves like three hinges on a door they move in unison. And that's the axis that sets up the the throw the upper body is going to follow. And so for you how much do you focus on like with your setup. How much of this is, did you guys work on none. So to be honest, it was kind of like, you know, I did that because it's when I was younger, it's what I saw the other guys do. Okay. And, you know, now it's almost just it's almost habit it's not even necessarily conscious. And so it's very, you know, I kind of do it just to get a bit more, you know, I almost think when I think about it now, you know, I kind of, instead of taking the weight off the leg I kind of might want to keep the weight but take it further from a rotational position. Okay, where's it, you know, because I think for me, especially not having too many throws with the correct technique, you don't want to have too much variability with your weight off that left leg you kind of want to keep that left leg you know under your body the whole time. Right. So that's that's the other thing because I battle quite a bit with that that you know those three are supposed to hinge together but my my hip often sinks back down and that that kind of gives me a problem so I You know, like I say I wait for that left to go I've tried to focus a lot on the door selection of my of my right leg which is harder to do than one would think. Okay, especially for me but that helps quite a bit with me. Okay. And it just gives me such a beautiful wrap in the end and I don't think about stopping that left arm and kind of just happens because I know what it feels like to be in a good position at the end. And that's what I love about feeling as opposed to thinking about it there's just too much to think about in that short space of time as you said. And so I think that knowing what it feels like to be in the right position, you kind of just like you wait for that and then throw you don't you don't worry about wrapping rewrapping. I've heard all these terms when I was sort of kind of figuring out in the beginning but at the moment I'm not focusing much on wrap and whatnot at all just what I'm doing at the back to you just again very you're very reactive. I think so. Yeah, which has pros and cons. It does. Right. But, and ultimately you know I've been, you know, I coach, I have a small club with developing athletes. So I have athletes that are new and you're developing athletic ability and fitness levels and they're really raw. And then I've had those young athletes that are, you know, they're, I've had these kids that are, you know, six foot three. So was that 191 centimeters, they wait, you know, they're, they're, you know, what, they're 130 to 140 kilos as high school kids. And, you know, you know, and so I have I've had a couple of kids that are 22 meter throwers with the 5.45. Right, you know, so yeah. So to even to throw 22 meters even with a 5.45 you got to be doing a lot of things right and these kids are just, they just pick up things so much easier. So it's a testament obviously you're not going to be fifth at the Olympics and the best Olympics ever. If you're not an exceptionally talented athlete right that that's going to be so that's interesting so I like it so because you can, you know, so you you'd agree right here a little too far forward, correct. Yeah. So, so that being said what what other is there anything else you would you would like to point out about your position versus like, do you think, you know, because Walsh has once you you look at Walsh and crowds or they're kind of about the same. Walsh has the sweep leg incredibly wide. Right so he really creates that extra speed as he transitions from here to here right that wide leg really going to whip you into position. And then, and then very similar to Walsh this is where I would say like the left arm, I always, we coach to take it out. And you, you have that great reaction of this, this path which I think really allows you to finish. And that's a great finish. Right you squared up shoulders, hips through and you're just striking the crap out of the shot which is how you throw 70 plus feet weighing 148 pounds, or 248 pounds. It would be even more impressive you weighed 148. So, so is there any other points like as you come through the finish I love that like the shoulders are square the block arm stop the hips through, you're a little off the ground like whereas you can see crowds or maintains ground contact a little longer. Is this something that you're, you think you consciously do or is this something you want to do you want to try to keep yourself on the ground a little bit more through the finish. And that's something I consciously do. It's kind of just sort of all caught up in. And you know what when I get into that good position, I have to just give everything and I kind of just come up off the ground, which I think definitely works in my favor because it makes you know my 190 centimeter height. It's probably the equivalent of a 196 centimeter thrower that doesn't come up as high, you know, right. Because my release height is probably the same. It'll be interesting to see what that release height actually was between me and crowds they have a significant the differences because he's considerably taller than me. Right. You know, I do come up for five centimeters I think higher off the ground. Yeah, I'm not even sure if that's a good or bad thing. I think it kind of helps because you know I'm getting everything through but if I were to think about it technically you know you kind of want your, you want to be on the ground while the ball still in your hand. Right. But yeah, I don't know I just, I try kind of just throw it what feels good and it's difficult because you can get caught up in the sort of nitty gritty of things. And it's difficult because there's so much in the rotational technique to have a look at and that's what I love and kind of hate about it. But that's why I focus so much on the feeling because it's like, you know when something feels sweet and of course you can make adjustments etc. But at this point, it feels really good that finish and I kind of, yeah, there's a lot more that I really want to focus on in the back of the circle that I think will help in right position. Yeah, that no that's I would, I would, I would agree it looks a lot of good stuff. And that yeah I mean I love how you're like, like I said squared up block the hip through. I mean that's a great position, clearly. Good enough. Good enough for for a couple of personal best right exactly at the time you know I know you went better after that. Of course but I still I think still proud to in that in that setting. Yeah, so mean so much. Yeah. Now, training, you kind of covered some of the training but generally, you know what's the you guys obviously do you attribute the success towards the end of the season. Was it, you know, part of my job as a coach is always and I've had a lot of good luck with that you know you set a plan. This is when you're trying to throw far. I kind of do block periods you know where it's like I'm trying to hit multiple peaks. It's not just the old school linear thing. So how does your year look and then of course you peeked at the games you know and again I want to say you were fifth and qualifying and fifth in the final. You know you brought it you had I think like, you know it's a pressure environment you open up with a 2084 the second round you hit the, you know, your PR at the time is 2011 so how is that you know when you go in knowing the PR is only 2011 the auto queue is 2021 21 and you go 2125 you're like sweet I'm in, and I'm going to come back the next day how, how was, you know, how did that feel like you came in when you hit the 2084 do you feel good today was that like, when I hit 2084 I kind of went like wow that was easy. And so then I was like, this could be fun. And I knew after I thought to myself I actually don't know the statistics but I was like 2084 is not enough. And I always say to myself I don't actually necessarily I'm not too concerned about how I how I do in the Olympics from a position perspective, I just kind of want to PR. And so, you know, when I hit 2125 I was so happy I don't, I didn't even process that that was automatic qualification I completely forgot the numbers of I super happy and I remember asking the South African guy that car so what's the what is because I saw it hit the white line didn't know if it was 2130 and you know so much of that qualification is a is a blur. And so I just remember feeling super happy and just feeling like, wow, you know, that was kind of, I don't want to lie to you but the emotion around that the 21 25 in the qualification was coming fifth overall was almost more emotive than coming fifth overall the coming fifth overall in the final was fantastic, you know, PR in throwing 21 41 was amazing. But the emotion and the sort of, I was even I was surprised from, you know, doing that but also not surprised it's difficult to explain but it was just the emotion from going from sort of not expecting too much to them being they're going, wow, you know, I just came fifth in the qualification that's that's huge. And then to do it you know in the final as well it was of course the cherry on top but just I remember coming back to my phone and just seeing my parents that they were having a sort of a meeting with my other family members and pictures of them on the group crying and I think that was just for me just huge. Yeah, that's awesome man. Now you obviously that said, now what are you thinking when you come back the next day in the final, you know, and you, you, you open up again with 2085 on the final, and how did and then, you know, it wasn't until the final, obviously, like the final, you know, three throws that you know, 2140 and 2141, you know, you had to 2140s which was better than Romani he he he hit a 2188 on that first throw. Yeah. And you know that that held him for fourth but I mean at this point, you're going toe to toe with Darlin Romani I mean Darlin Romani is like a beast right like yeah, I mean that guy is huge right like you've competed against him at the guy is just traps chest I mean he is just giant. Yeah, so what's it like like like what goes through your head at this point when you're there and it's like, you're punching it out with Romani, I mean in all these guys it's just like. But at this point to your, you know, Walsh opened up at 2109. Right. And then he of course he he he hit some better throws, but he's even to put in perspective like his 2247 was the Olympic record before 2016. Right. I mean it's like this this was just like incredible competition. So I'm going on and on but no I enjoy it. So, so how do you you know you you you hit the 2085. Do you feel like, do you feel any pressure at that point do you feel like that's going to hold up to get you into the top eight so you can get three more, or you know, yeah at that point at that point I definitely didn't think it was going to be enough to get me into in top eight so I was kind of still still chasing it. But in the same but you know realizing it's probably not going to be enough I still have to be very active in trying, but also being relaxed enough so you don't mess up the time in the throw. So I was a bit disappointed I was a bit worried, and obviously after my third throw, and it wasn't, you know, I thought it was 2085 because I don't know if that would have qualified for the final 2085. I don't know what you know it from what I what I see from looking at the results, I think that that did put you in eighth. Right. Okay, so I think sorry you know exactly so I was yeah I think I was probably I was the last to qualify into that final I remember. And then the South African Karl Blichman was through 21 and his third throw and that was when I was like, I this can't happen you know that that fired me up and I remember. I'm not a big coffee drinker and obviously the Italians don't like that about me. But I now put into the habit of having like a triple espresso before the before I throw it kind of it works really well because I'm not like used to the caffeine and whatnot. And so anyway so I've been doing that and then of course the morning of the Olympic final was the only time ever in a competition where there has not been coffee they were running late and I remember thinking to myself I remember thinking. It's good. You know, of course it will happen today. I thought, like, you know, you're going to do it without it and I remember thinking that and going in and I thought I'm not going to let this affect me. And anyway, and then I remember off that third throw and Carl through 21 he said to me is like do you want to read balls I was like no do you have a coffee. He's like, I do have a coffee so you pulled out this coffee and you know we share that in between the the next three throws. And I was kind of you know I don't know if I can attribute it solely to the copy but it definitely put me in a good focus spot. And that it kind of took off from there and I think that's one of the things that I also love the most about that Olympic finals to do it with Kyle not that he's South African but you know this young, really good thrower. Yeah, but like, you know, we were to I remember I trained with him for two months when I was in Jobe with the other coach he trains with my previous coach. But these two guys that everyone, you know, no one spoke about us leading into the games and you know here we are on the Olympic final definitely top eight. You know sharing a coffee before the final three throws and just saying like we just two guys out here having fun. And I think that that for me was such a beautiful moments of the competition and help keep me calm because I felt like you know we had another training session and have fun with it and that really that helped me a lot. That's awesome. But sorry so I don't know if I answered your question I'm also getting a bit sidetracked. No no no that's great it's love I love it it's cool it's cool insights for sure. But yeah you know so when you go in you hit the PRs. And I mean you're just thinking, okay you made it in eighth, and now you're thinking. All right, what do you was where's your mind. And what is coach pilot what's he saying to you. So I remember specifically he said it to me after the 2086 and the qualifications and also the 2080 and also going into the fourth round. What I do when I come out the back of the circle and the arm I don't keep the arm sort of level. And so when I dip at the hip the arm goes up so he said to me said keep your arm level coming out the back. And so that is the only thing I was thinking in that fourth round and 2040 I thought that felt good. And then again, then going after it again I focused on the same thing and hit the 2141. And then in the sixth row, I remember thinking it's all or nothing. And I pushed super hard but I messed up the timing. And I think if I if I kept the timing with the speed that I came out of the back of the circle. But it could have been something could have been something special. That's awesome. But it was perfect. You know, I couldn't be upset. No, that's that's amazing. Again, you just kind of kept the peak going after that right you were just on a real hot streak. And I think you won the Italian club championship and finished with another PR like you had two more big PR is a 2163 and then a 2166. You're like, you know, a consistent 70 foot guy at this point. That is a long ways from just a few years ago where you're barely thrown you throw 19 meters one time. So, so this being said, you know, the American, I think, partly why I think America is so good in the shot is because these guys are just freaks they're they're all Peyton Otterdahl, he's a monster, the guy's strong as can be Crousers, a big fast, really strong guy like he's incredible. Joe, did you see Joe Kovacs with last year they made it on, he had like an 870 squat for four. I mean, it's like he's literally got to be one of the strongest dudes on the planet. Like, I mean, he's he's an he's incredible. So that being said, what are your strength levels. Everybody wants to know this stuff everybody wants to know what do you bench what do you squat like where you. Yes, I can't enjoy sharing these numbers because it's, I think it speaks to the beauty of technique. Prior to the Olympic games my PR was 150 kgs for two in the bench press. Wow. So now I've gone up to 160 kgs for two. And I have done in the squat I haven't gone over 200 for two. And we only kind of do quarter squats as well so I haven't gone over 200. Okay. And then snatch. I've only gone up to 90 kgs for three. And 90 kilo snatch for three. Yeah. And you can throw 70 feet in the shot. This is unbelievable man. I'm just trying to think those are kind of the big more because we don't deadlift. Okay. Clean squat. Do you do jerks? We do a behind the neck jerk. But it's kind of it's not it's not a jerk you don't we don't use our legs. It's more just we stand on our toes just to get that rhythm. And I've gone up to 100 100 kgs on that. Yeah. But those are kind of the only ones that I can think that are of any interest, especially for the big the big sort of three. So, so what now you I heard you earlier say you throw one day it sounds like you lift one day and you do a circuit. So that was that was specifically during COVID because obviously we had no like access to physiotherapists and whatnot. Gotcha. Gotcha. And in that period I think the heaviest I went on the bench was 115, which is just crazy. But at that time I hadn't had really consistent weight training so it was like for me was still a bit of a hassle. Okay. But anyway, but that was that was then and but now so it depends on what part of the season we remember we kind of do like a when we're on a training camp will do 21211. 21211 what is that. So, so we'll do throws weightlifting on a Monday. Okay, throws throws on a Tuesday and throws and weight lift will do field work and weightlifting on a Wednesday. Okay, so what's fieldwork fieldwork so we'll go down to like obviously a stadium will do some 60 meter like rhythmic runs will do some hurdle work overhead throws front throws and jumps into the sandpit. So it's kind of like it's an active recovery because my coaches like to put three throwing days together. And especially because especially, you know, it's on a training camp is quite it's quite intense. You know, we've just finished one now and it's you kind of walk out and you think flip well that's been like that's been a month and you and I don't know where it's gone. It's crazy you know I nap between the sessions you wake up you eat you and you're on to the next one you know and then you have supper you go back home you sleep and you do it again the next day. So it's really busy. So that's kind of so that's your Wednesdays is fieldwork weightlifting in the afternoon and Friday Thursday is just wait just a throws in the morning. Okay, Friday is throwing the morning weightlifting afternoon and in Saturdays weightlifting. So that's kind of how it's set up for watch for training camps and that is similar to last year but a little bit different there was a few tweaks. I can't remember so for the programs but it's kind of that's the principle that my coach and then how how much rest you do after training camp is it like a download week. Do you completely leave everything off is it everything lighter like how's that look. So we'll do a three a three week like I've just described to you now and then our fourth week of that training camp will be just throws Monday throws Tuesday fieldwork on a Wednesday. And then also like throws on a Thursday and Friday and then like a lot weightlifting. So it's kind of less weightlifting considerably and then fewer throws maybe between five and 10 fewer throws. And so that's kind of that's kind of how it's working. Now that's what we just finished. And I think that you're saying something earlier that I wanted to touch on. You're saying about peaking for the games and then doing really well at the end of the season. You know, we're still experimenting. I don't really have too much to compare to I've got two years and they've kind of been different for many, for many reasons. So we're still experimenting. We're still trying to find I definitely think, man, I really wanted to go on for another month after my last competition. I was in really good shape training was incredible. I was, you know, shocked to see the shape I was in. I had some nice big files at the at the time of the final, you know, at training in competition warm-ups. So I wanted to try, you know, get that into a competition. But obviously that was kind of the last one and it was important for me to rest, especially if I wanted to make the mentally focused going into the season. But it definitely seems like towards the end of the year I get into really good shape because similarly after 2070, right at the end of my of my year in the previous year. So it definitely seems like I'm in good shape towards the end of the year. Very cool. Yeah, no, I mean, the fitness stuff, you know, just sounds just kind of what you're explaining. And when you're lifting, you know, I feel like the trap a lot of people will fall into is like, they got to push strength, strength, it's a keyboard, it's a strength sport. So what do you think? I mean, clearly based on what you just explained number wise, you look like you still have a lot of upside. So where do you think kind of leading that as we'll kind of start, I'll start wrapping it up, you know, because I appreciate your time and I don't want to keep you on all day. But, you know, where does, what is the outlook to you like what's kind of the, where do you, you know, 22, I'm sure is, is probably got to be one of the big, big goals, I would think right that's a big milestone. I think you threw against Josh, I would tune day right another stud from America. And yeah, and he hit, you guys had a nice battle at that one of the meets where you had 2163 right. The papers are yours. He thinks it's an awesome battle. It was just a battle. Yeah, no. And but another month, you know, he's super nice guy, you know, you know, and I was really happy from that meet. You know, I was still a bit frustrated because that was 2166 was a slip from the hand. So I was kind of like, when I said it, I was like, I just want to get in, you know, and throw again, but obviously it was the last throw. But when he hit 22 minutes, it's just it's so nice to see guys that are just like down to earth and doing the sport for the love of the sport, it's easy to get caught up in the like sponsorship deals and whatever. You know, it's actually not so easy, but you know, you can get caught up in the sponsorship deals and you know the money and the fame and all this stuff, but you know to see guys that are just like out there doing what they can to train hard. They love the sports, you know, they they're growing themselves and I'll never not celebrate another guy, you know, doing well like that's incredible and it was, it was awesome to share that with them because we had a competition in Roberto the week before. Obviously he had been there for two he had landed two days before that competition dealing with jet lag and whatever competed there. So to see him come back and respond so well in that next competition was right and I'm so happy for him to have done that. Yeah. Yeah, you know, I mean, you saw the US Olympic trials right you had Otterdahl, Josh, and you had Durell Hill and they were all within like four centimeters like it was like two centimeters to I mean, they all threw like 21 what was like 2198 96 and 94 or something like. And yeah, you know, it just the US shot put is crazy. But any rate, but the point was with you. You look like you can get a lot stronger you've really only been two years. You know, I think I saw a really nice post you had made on like Facebook or something you were like 17 months prior. This guy was a stranger and you were talking about, you know, Paulo and you and how much you guys have achieved and that and you know it's obviously it worked incredibly well you do how often you train with fabric. Pretty much every time we train. Okay, we train we train quite a bit together. Yeah. And he's got a what a 2199 PR isn't that his PR 99 exactly. Yeah, yeah. So, that's got to be like how much does that push you to having guy like that every day. And then, you know, how, how was it between you two where you jumped up and he didn't probably yeah I'm sure he was expecting to perform a little bit, you know throw a little bit further than he did because he had some really great marks last year and and and then you know how was that when in the training environment with you to like how's the like the group dynamic. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so of course you know I'm very thankful that he allowed me to train with him in the beginning you know he took me into his home for a month as well. He helped me he helped me a lot and was just, you know, such an honor to be in the early stages of someone throwing like that and realize you know, you're just a human being that can throw really far and you know you tend to put these guys on a pedestal so to be involved in the intimate daily happenings of someone that such a good job. Gave me a lot of motivation gave me a lot of comfort and a lot of patience for myself and you know just to be seeing a good technique continually while you're training and being able to watch and and learn from him was was incredible. And so that that's huge and in obviously since that. And since I've sort of, you know I had a really good towards the end of the year and his marks when as good he's been dealing with some you know discomfort, muscular was, and I think you know off the coven sort of. Kind of like took away some of the sensibility of his timing and whatnot for. I'm not too sure how, how or why but you know he kind of struggled to find his rhythm again but had a beautiful 2171 in the diamond league in his hometown that was, you know, to. That's kind of what I, what I say like, you know, of course there's competition but you know to be involved like with Josh when he threw 22. In the town that he grew up in at the stadium is competing it to be a part of those things for me is just it's so motivated and it's so beautiful to be a part of, you know, I see what it requires to be a thrower so I can never. I can never, you know, look at someone's great result and be frustrated because of my own performance you know so to be involved that gives me such motivation and to be a part of those sorts of things. So I think now you know that helped me he's helped me so much to be you know proud to see how he interacts with the Italians and you know the Italian culture and I'm learning a lot from him always. And you know he's been very supportive of me and my success you know and so I think managing the team cohesion and team dynamic is an important part but we've managed so far to to keep it you know reasonably good and keep it an environment where everyone's still learning and supportive of each other so. You know, a lot of people have asked that because I think it's a natural question it's so easy to kind of, you know, let the jealousy creep in but we've, you know, we managed to keep it at bay so so far so good. Long may it continue. Now that's awesome. Okay, so listen, I appreciate it we've been talking for a while, and I'm loving it I'm going to give you a couple, just a couple of quick, rapid questions day in the life of zane we're what's it like. Wake up, eat, train, eat nap train nap. Okay. Let's see your favorite movie. The accountant, the accountant. Okay, very cool. Favorite book. There's a few I'm going to go with the one that's actually South African rights it's called textures of silence by Gordon Foster. Okay. See that that that right there just tells me you're a good intellectual kind of guy so. I don't be fooled. Okay. Let's see. Favorite food. I'm not a fussy eater, but I do enjoy a good burger. Okay. Yeah, something about a good burger chicken wings or tacos. Chicken wings. Chicken wings. Okay, I'm a taco guy can eat tacos. I won't hold it against you. It's not as popular. I figured right. Yeah, tacos and I'm half Mexican so my it's like it's like a genetically in me to one. Such a bad. There's worse habits. Yeah. So let's see. And final let's favorite relaxing activity to do. My other people I love my girlfriend, my family, probably, probably my favorite. Very cool. Does your girlfriend, you have an Italian girlfriend or a girl from South Africa. South African girlfriend. Okay. We are slugging through long distance. That's a trick. Yeah. All right. Favorite song. Favorite song. That's a tough one. That's a broad question is a tough one. I'm going to pick one but it's not necessarily, you know, I've got so many favorites. I would go Tim shell by Mumford and sons. Okay. And then what how about your favorite pump up song. You have a pump up song. You're going to get, you're like, let me get jacked up for a, I'm old so like I used to. Like black Sabbath back in the day for me, which was old and classic when I was competing. There is a US artist Russ. I remember on the way in the Olympics, I was listening to a lot to him. There's a song, I think it's for me versus you. Yeah. I like that one. Very cool. See it. There you go again with some philosophy stuff, right. Okay. All right. What's the, what's the kind of what's the big goal you think. And you don't have to share that if you don't want her anyway, but what do you what are you hoping to do in the next couple of years in Paris is only, you know, three years away, right, which is kind of cool. So I'm imagining, you know, Paris has got to be a big goal I would imagine. So what's how far knowing that Walsh through 21 38 in 2016 at the Olympics. And then the next year I think he's winning through 22. And then he threw 20, 20, 20, 291 in Doha a few years later, knowing how strong you are. And he's kind of on that vibe to where he wasn't, I think he was stronger than you though. I think so. Yeah, but, but, but, you know, he's obviously gotten bigger and stronger. There was a great picture I think him and Kovacs put up together were like when they were competing with back in like 13 or 14 and then like five years later they're both just like so much bigger and you know. Exactly. So how what do you think you ultimately, where do you think you can fall what kind of, you know, performance was like from a distance perspective or just overall from a distance perspective. So assuming you're hunting for an Olympic medal that's a given right your fifth I got to think you're thinking yeah look it I'm not I'm not I'm 250 pounds. I can compete with these guys. I'm going to win a medal. So I have to believe that's where your mind sets out. Of course and so definitely is I mean Olympic medal would be would mean a lot but you know, it is only one mark of my success I think right distance wise it's so it's so difficult because I really actually don't care. Of course you want it as far as possible. Do you know what I mean. I don't know. I'd love an Olympic medal I love a world champs medal I'd love all these sort of accolades but I think you know, when I think about it I don't want to sound, you know, washy washy and whatnot but it really is I just want to stay in love with my in love with my daily practice. I think that for me I think it's the most important if I can make a living doing something that's meaningful to me. And of course I'd love to you know I'd love for my hard work to pay off and then get Olympic gold and will championship gold but I think yeah to to continue using the sport to to make me interact better with other people I think that would probably be my biggest goal of the sport otherwise you know I need to pick something else that's a little bit more fulfilling right as far as far as possible. And I hope 22 meters will will come soon, but the beautiful thing about the sport the harder you grip at the quicker it falls and I think I just to enjoy the daily practice make sure it's making me better and I think that that's my ultimate goal for my career. Awesome man. Well hey, I just want to say thank you so much for doing this and, like I said, there was a, it's pretty incredible it was like I said not just a, and again not just a fifth place performance at the Olympics right it's like, that's amazing, but at the best Olympic shot put final in history I mean that that's just like I said you would have won. It's got to be a pretty cool feeling to know, you know this throw I would have won like multiple Olympics. Right like I would have meddled in almost every single Olympics, you know like that so that really puts in perspective so, and I think it's just more impressive like how you've done it. Like I said, the jumps you've made in the last few years, your strength levels. I mean like it just really going to be exciting to see you continue to throw over the next few years I look forward to hopefully meet you in person. I want to come visit you in Italy now you know I want to hang out with you guys that'd be fantastic. But thank you again. Congratulations again, and yeah it was absolutely fantastic hanging out with you and getting to talk with you. So, awesome. No thank you for having me and I appreciate your insight the research you've done for the interview your passion about the sport I mean I think it's guys like you. More people like you that keep the sport interesting and you know I think, you know coming fit at one of the best Olympics of all time is this fantastic, but I think, you know what sport does for the young mind I think it's way more important than any Olympic medal so thank you for you and the coaches, like yourself that are out there I think it's super super important and it's, you know, I really appreciate your time thank you for having me on. Hey, thank you so much. All right man. Sorry, can I interrupt you can I tell you one one quick crazy story considering you know dame. Yeah. And I'd like him to reach out for me or maybe you can chat to I'd like to just have a word but in university I can't remember the year it might have been I don't know if it was 2018 or 2017. I reached out to him looking for help on his on his on his page and I said you know listen, I'm looking for some advice just in the weight training facility just to kind of get a basic program I've got no idea. Anyway, he came out he's like yeah of course you know I have a look on my page you know and it was like $100 and say listen dame, you know, I don't want to do any disservice to your business and you know who you are and whatnot but you know is it possible to the cheap I cannot afford that. And he he helped me out and I responded when I qualified for the Olympics actually messaged him and I voice noted him and he read it but I don't know if you actually listen because he probably gets 1000 I don't even know if he answers his own messages. But I wanted to give him that extra $50 and I think I'll maybe wait till hopefully I see him in Oregon this year and because and meet him shake his hand and and acknowledge him because he definitely helped me at university with the weight training to get to the 1909 that kind of put me on a interesting recognition radar for the Italian guy so if you can just tell him that story, I'd greatly appreciate and then obviously to meet him in America, God willing, would be would be awesome. I'd love to love to shake his hand and say thank you and give him his $50. Very cool. Yes, you know, Dan copies everything I do. Okay, so I won't give him an interview. So we're friends we hang out every year at the US Championships and that kind of stuff, but but he's even self admitted he's like I've watched every single video you've put up like every one of them. And I'm like, to the point I probably shouldn't even say what about say but I had an editor that I trained for three years that broke his contract and is editing for day now. No, a trader. So, so he and I and we talked about it this year and he goes I probably should have told you shouldn't I. And I was like, you know, I'm like, yeah, I'm like, you know the guys. I won't say anything but I'm like, yeah, it wasn't it wasn't a very cool situation but so at any rate, but I'm sorry but maybe. You can you can you can you can buy Dana beer that's what I'll tell you you don't need to give him a 50 bucks. Okay. Now awesome. Now I look forward to meeting you man and again please, not please but thank you for your time. It's fantastic to be able to speak about, you know what I'm passionate about on this platform and have someone that's interested in the sport knows the statistics and gives a context it's love I really like when you put things into context like the fifth games because you know obviously I feel these things are very biased. And I think hearing it from someone that knows what they're talking about passionate about the sport just is extremely motivating for me and extremely humbling so thank you very much. Hey you're very welcome man it was a total pleasure and like I said I look forward to hopefully I'll be up there in Oregon as well get to meet you will go to dinner or something. And like I said I'd love to come to Italy though and get some good Italian food and hang out that would be fantastic. We look forward to having you and so if you do ever come down, let me know and we can we can certainly arrange something sounds fantastic. Alright man, thanks for your patience and good luck going forward. I hope it goes well and works in your favor. Great. Yeah, thank you so much. All right, take care.