 creative zone. My guest today is someone who as a part of her, who as a part of the founding members at Malin Linda's has been one of the one of the brightest minds behind the agency's best work be it work for Motilal Oswal, for Tooyam, for Farm Easy. We are pleased to have with us today Garima Khandelwal, the Chief Creative Officer of Malin Linda's. Hi, how have you been? All right, quite okay. Thank you. So we wanted to speak to you about work that's happening, creating a bit of adversity and a couple of other things. So first of all, we want to start by asking you how is this experience been creating a bit of remote captivity and how has created a concepting change post lockdown? So I think there's been a lot and lot and lot of conversations because everything today, the conversation, whether it's ideation or discussion or presentation, or even execution, there's, you know, a lot of talking that really goes, you know, and earlier on you could rely on a lot of things that, you know, would get picked up, you know, with physical interaction, so to speak, or, you know, presence, but now it's all through computer screen or, you know, phone calls, etc. So you do have to probably be quite specific or, you know, you also have to rely on the fact that things are getting picked up, you know, how you're really talking about it, etc. So yes, now five months down the road of this remote working, we have kind of figured that that's really how it's going to work. So that's how it is. That's nice. That's nice. So lockdown took us all by surprise. So what were the initial hiccups for the operational challenges when you started off and how have you been like kind of adapting to it now? So yeah, I mean, all of a sudden, you know, we were all in different geographies and, you know, getting together on a screen, etc. But yes, I think immediately it made sense to collaborate with people with whom you had connections, like, you know, with the team, for example, you already know how everybody works and it was easier to translate, you know, while you're working long distance and even when you're collaborating with the filmmakers or, you know, other people, it just you, I am for sure relying on a lot of my past, you know, connections or a lot of my, you know, that whole compatibility that you have that you have left over yours. And it's helping to, you know, be able to work now with the same people because you already have traveled, you know, you know how somebody thinks and how somebody value adds, etc. So I think that is how and now, of course, there are newer, you know, people you've never met in reality, but you're also working with them now and that's also happening. But I was carefully choosing people who I've worked with, you know, before to work remotely with. Right. So if you can also take us to some of your work, any one of your campaigns done during lockdown, and how did it all come together despite the barriers to creation? Yeah, so I mean, I guess I'd like to talk about, like a brand you mentioned, Motila Lozwal, you know, the we had, we just did a campaign for them like a TVC for them. And then strangely, or interestingly, the idea was approved, you know, before COVID, you know, before I think in Feb is when we had just go ahead on this idea. And then lockdown happened. And we were trying to think that, okay, maybe we need to do a more COVID specific, you know, kind of a take. And the client said that no, that idea actually still works. And let's go ahead and execute it. So a thought that was thought through in a pre COVID time was executed totally, you know, you know, post COVID time. So, you know, things that we would take for granted, you know, earlier on had to be labored and discussed and all of that. I remember it at, it was about, you know, restaurants for it, you know, as an idea and pre COVID, those restaurants would be really packed, but we really had to, you know, be sure that they have scanty, you know, like there are less people now post COVID, should people be wearing masks, but you know, if people are wearing masks, maybe it takes away from the idea. So execution, you know, of an idea which was meant to be at a different time was interesting for me, you know, because we did that. And then of course, remote shooting for something that we would have ordinarily been shooting in a very different fashion. We did, you know, with the director in Bangalore. And, and again, you know, collaborating with somebody who already knew the brand is cost helped, because we were working with somebody who we had worked with, you know, on the same brand. So it, so yeah, it was, it was an experience exciting. Right. So what are the larger execution challenges in this new way of working? I think the many things that we took for that would seemingly luxury earlier on, like, you know, a small change today can really, you know, dominant effect of that, because, you know, explaining it earlier on, you would just get it done with, you know, much more simply. I think that is a challenge because many things have to be left to, you know, like not everything can, can be quality wise, you know, like, you know, things have to, you have to let go, I think a little bit and let things flow, because it is impossible to have that kind of check, I think on things that we were used to. Interesting. So tell me, speaking about clients, how have clients responded to this situation as opposed to when we started off? Are they ready to like spend now or, you know, are they still tightening their first strings and where do you see them really spending now? I think clients, actually, a lot of clients, priorities maybe have changed, you know, of course, they have to be spending on stuff, which, but there's a lot of element advertising, you know, that is happening today. I mean, immunity itself has become a category, right, on its own and many, many brands that are catering to that new need that consumers have. So I think, I mean, like there are actual communication pieces that need to go out. I mean, you know, FNGG brands are doing quite well in the market today. So they have to pretty much, you know, the context is different, but I think the need to advertise is back is what I think. Right. So, you know, the code is now moving towards, you know, digital rather than cracking a TVC. So how equipped are creative agencies now to kind of tackle that? So I think, you know, all of us are digitally native, right, like maybe all are consuming content digitally, right. So I mean, in that sense, I know how I'm consuming content and, you know, how things are, like, maybe yes, there is a lot of target communication that happens or there's a huge database of how people are consuming content, etc. But it is still about the idea, right, that's holding it or there is a strategy and a creative that's required for anything that's even going down out on digital. It's just a medium where people are consuming it today, but there's no difference in, you know, in the way the work is needs to be, you know, like the first formats are different or whatever. But I think at the core, it's still the idea that holds it together. And while, you know, YouTube will say six, seven, six seconds, seven seconds, Facebook will say 10 seconds, but there are often more, you know, two-minute videos that travel on WhatsApp as well. So as far as the idea is engaging and, you know, there is, of course, there's need for creative minds to crack, take a crack at it. So this entire situation has also brought in a great deal of people in the way we work. So when you see the green shoots of opportunity daily, the positives out of this that have, like, actually helped us as an industry in a way of working, because for example, I see a lot of digital work happening now, and I see digital acceleration, then I see a lot of creatives coming up with work on their own on depression, on domestic violence, suddenly during this lockdown. So when do you see the positives really in the green shoots? So I think because we've all had now kind of a shared experience, you know, so there are a lot of insights and a lot of realities that are common, you know, for everybody. Everybody knows that it's gone through one huge like a past review, so to speak. And therefore, there are many things that have propped up and need to be communicated and need to be spoken off. So I think that's that's a plus, you know, because it's kind of one ground that everybody has experienced and is now, you know, evolving from there and work for that. That's good. It's actually quite interesting. That's nice. So speaking about, we spoke about clients, we spoke about digital and speaking about work now, when we started off, I saw, we saw a lot of work in terms of UGC, in short-run phone and all that, which we still see, they're still nice to see. But do you think that there's going to be a saturation to it that have you seen that evolving as opposed to when we started off? Absolutely. I think there was one phase, like you said, you know, there was a certain kind of work that was happening. Of course, now with production that's opening up, we really have gone to the next phase of, you know, filmmaking. And it's really good because there's a whole, you know, like there's so many people, their livelihoods are connected to the production, right? So I think it's great that production is opening up and, you know, people are getting hired for it, whether it's actors or, you know, the crew, etc. And now it's not a, you know, 150 people crew, but smaller setups, maybe simpler kind of storytelling. But yes, we have moved from, you know, even brands actually were earlier connecting at a very human, you know, kind of a level of, you know, of being showing empathy, etc. But now actual, you know, real stuff that then needs to be sold is being communicated. And that has already started, like, you know, I mean, places have opened up or, you know, shoot is like on full on. So it's great. Next phase is on. Many people tell me that they've also learned a lot of production hacks, working through the situation and all that. What's your take? Yeah, production hacks or, you know, even solving problems, you know, innovatively, and in like the smallest thing probably needs to be thought through or discussed or, you know, like, I mean, what's the age of, for example, the actors or, you know, I mean, can you have so many people like, should it be simpler? All those things are key. But it's amazing. I think, I think the work that's coming out now, it really doesn't lack any, you know, I mean, I don't think craft is missing. There is craft in the stuff that we are seeing now. So yeah, that phase of ads now is exciting now to see. Superb. So lastly, as we know that COVID-19 is a human trading crisis in a lot of our watchers are speaking about not factoring work created during these times. So what would be your message to brands and to agencies on creating work without being exploitative and we are without using it as a mere marketing flaw? Yeah, because we see a lot of conversations on COVID-19. Correct. I just think that, you know, it was in the cultural moment, it was more like a, you know, I mean, a pandemic or a catastrophe or, and there was work that was being, being created, but not for the, you know, the effect of winning, winning an award or anything for it was more about, you know, how do we collectively communicate or how do we talk about winning over the virus, etc. So yeah. And as I said, you know, that was one phase of communication that a lot of brands did. But now it is time for brands to really talk about what is it that if context is COVID, how, what are they offering? What are they, you know, what do they want people to buy into? There were many brands that were actually really, really visible, right? Like when, at Spence, probably are lesser right now and Amul, I think, as one brand was, you know, available and in the sense, it was really visible and therefore top of mind, right? And they're selling stuff that people are actually consuming even, you know, across to the phase. So yeah, I think that, that phase of treating COVID as, you know, that something social advertising probably needs to do is now. Perfect. Thank you so much, Garima, for your time and for this really interesting conversation. I'm just glad that we finally made it happen. I thought that this is never going to happen in a project. Yeah, no, sorry. I mean, you know, just things, days just spill over and things are just going on quite crazy. So, but really, I'm glad that it is. Thank you so much. Stay safe, stay connected. Bye. You too, you too, yes. Thank you. Bye.