 Big shit. It's a unique hustle nigga. Big shit. Big shit. Big shit. Name another podcast like this. Check it, check it, check it. It's a unique hustle. It's your boy, he's CEO man. I'm here with a lovely official. Mr. Mako, what's going on? Nothing, nothing. Damn, what going on? Hey man, what's going on man? We got, hey man, listen man, we got a special guest in here today man. He don't really need no introduction man. One of my day ones man been supporting me ever since I met him. And it's been a blessing to have him in my life. What I've seen him do since we've been together is extraordinary movement man. And people need to really tune in, tap in to what this guy bring to the table man. For our youth, for our black culture, for everything that he represents now. Guys, you got to step up and wake up man. It's my boy, Mayhem the mentor. He's in the building. What's up, what's up? The introduction was solid. Solid. So how you doing today man? I'm here to promote the book man, I'm blessed. Well I can tell you right now man, I love the demeanor. I also love the demeanor when I see you go live on Facebook. The things that you say a lot of times man, it pretty much brings awareness to certain things that may be taken in the wrong way. Or somebody may not have got a cool grasp of what it really was, what was going on at the time when it was happening. You are doing a recap of situations and I would always call you and be like, man you keep pushing. People need to hear that. You remember those days? Yes. So what's up Mr. Mayhem, are you with us today or is it just me and Mayhem? I'm here, I'm just listening to the conversation right now. So what's up man, talk to me. Tell me something. I was thinking about, what if I just talk about the book Black Massacre. No, no, no, no, no, no, we don't even do it like this. Let's go back into you, Mayhem, before you were Mayhem. How did you get the name Mayhem? I want to know about you, I want to know growing up you said you grew up in Louisiana? No, I grew up all over the United States. But you were born in where? I was born in Los Angeles, California. And because I've read portions of the book and because we have a personal relationship, just give us a little spill about who you are, how you, you know, because you were born into a situation that many don't even fathom. So could you please give us a little bit about that? My biological father was murdered before I was born on New Year's Eve 1977 in Los Angeles, California, trying to break up a fight. I was born on April 29th. My biological mother OD'd on October 1977, four months after I was born. And then I went through seven different foster homes before I got adopted by my family today, which is the Dabrell family. How old were you when you got adopted by that family? I think maybe seven months old, something like that. Oh, so you didn't go through foster care that long then? No, because they sent us through foster care because it was five of us all together that was adopted. And they said my older siblings were older. So they separated me and my twin from the other. So you have a twin? I have a twin brother. Identical. Identical twin. And they were trying to get us adopted fast. So you all got adopted together? Yes, we got adopted together because the adoption agency in California, they knew that babies get adopted a lot faster than older children. So they knew that if they can get us to the right family, that we can get adopted. So they ended up shipping us to a lot of different people because we were two kids. And they knew that we can get adopted fast. So it was crazy. It's all documented. So seven months in seven months? Within the seven months. Because what they said was that I had got so attached to the, I had got so, they said when I was younger, it was hard for my mother to touch me or feed me or something because I had to disdain me for women. I didn't like to touch women. My dad was the one who came and got me about the orphanage because when he walked to the door, you know, it was like the first man because, you know, here I am a young kid. I come into the world and I have my mom and they take me from her. I go from another foster care. I get closer to my mother. Hold on, hold on, hold on. But you say you got adopted at seven months. Right. Okay. So you're talking about feeding the babies. We're talking about, we didn't go to an orphanage. We were in like, what's it called, foster care? Foster care. So at seven months, you... We were confined to what they said, the playpen. They said when I was in the playpen, the little, them back in the, I don't know if you remember back in the day, they used to keep us in the playpen. They said when I would come in there and the women would come in there, I would fight and kick and... At seven months. At seven months. That's why I was trying to figure out, I'm like, wow. And they said, why was he doing it? And they said because I was getting close to the women. And they said seven times that I had got close to a woman. And every time I would get close to the woman, the woman would leave me and I would go to another room. So finally my dad came in there. And when he reached into the cage, I just would like, and all the people were like, what? I thought he didn't touch nobody. And they said, man, something about that kid, he liked you. And your brother was in the same way, of course. No, my brother, no, no. He would go to anybody and everybody. He didn't care. But anyway, it took me a long time to get over this. Even my adopted mother couldn't feed or change me as I got older. Until we went through some type of thing. She said she had to hold me down to something and tell me something. She tells the story. But they'll tell you. But you don't remember. I don't even like talking about the story because I don't really remember. It's just something that they told me that I had to go through in order for me to develop. Because they said all this stuff, because I went through special ed when I was growing up. So I grew up in Los Angeles. In the 70s. So my family is a Creole family. So at this time, the fabric of the environment in Los Angeles in 1977, this was when the tensions was getting bad. And what's crazy about Texas, you know, Texas, our cities are very liberal, more democratic. The rural areas are the more racist areas. You know, you've seen the more Trump supporters. In California, it's opposite. Our major cities in California are more racist. And then the country part of California is very liberal. So the people who adopted you, they were from Louisiana? They were from Louisiana. And they would just move from Albuquerque and they moved to LA. And that's where they got us. Because my dad couldn't have kids. So when they adopted us, this is when things kind of started getting bad in LA. So they moved back to Albuquerque. Then my mom got a job. We moved to Colorado Springs, Colorado. My parents got a divorce. Oh, so father asked, are they still together? No, they got a divorce. So then we moved to Arlington, Texas. The first time we moved to Texas. So you moved with your mom or dad? My mom. Me and my twin. So then we didn't stay there too long. Then we moved to Fresno, California. We didn't stay in Fresno too long. Then we moved to San Diego. Didn't stay there. Did you still keep in contact with your dad during all of this movement and everything like that? Yes, kind of a little bit. We talked to him. We know where he's at. And it's so crazy. As a child, he was the one you went to and you really didn't deal with her. But then when they broke up, she's the one you went with. She kept the Social Security money. So she got the money to keep that and help us out or whatever. And he felt like she was more educated than he was. And he was just like, it's better for her to take care of you. Because she's more sophisticated or whatever. She's more responsible if she can cook or whatever. So he was just like, he was around and he was there. But he wasn't as responsible as he could have been or whatever. They felt it was best for us to go with her. So we didn't stay in Fresno that long. My first job was delivering the Fresno B newspaper. Newspaper. I've seen that in the book. Right. So that's when I really became... And how were you when you got your first job? I would have been right then. My first job was... 11-12? Or you older? Something like that. 11-12. Something like that. Yeah. But I mean, when you come talking about being a tough person, man, I'm a twin. You know, I got my uncle Savage. You know, I got a lot. My dad was tough. My dad got four brothers. My uncles, you know what I'm saying? And when you seeing your dad and your mom, okay, because I understand your dad passed away in New Year's Eve. And then your mom that October... But did you eventually find out about your parents, your biological parents family? My biological dad was black. And my biological mother was white. Okay. So because of that dynamics, the family rejected everything. So we never, you know... So even up to today, you don't know that side of the family or anything? One was from Alabama. One was from West Texas. You know... And you said you had five siblings? Mm-hmm. Was that for your biological mom and dad? My four... I have four... My siblings, they're biological. Same mom, same dad. Were you able to get back in contact with them? We was in a thing called an open adoption. So it means I always knew I was adopted and I always knew that these brothers is exist. But you didn't know... So you knew how to contact them or where they are and everything like that? They knew how to contact me. I was the youngest, I was the baby. I was the last to be born. But sometimes the baby have to take things on their hands when you get older to reach out. I take them on their hand now. I reach out. I keep everybody in mind. Are they still living? Yeah. All of them. Have you... When the last time you've spoken to them? All of them. Like, weekly, two weeks? Yes, it is. That's dope, man. So growing up, when did you find out at what age did your parents, your adopted parents tell you that your mom died at that age and your dad died this how and when did you find all of that information out? How old were you? As soon as I... As old as I can remember. Really? Yeah. And how you think that affected your upbringing? No. It didn't affect you? Knowing that? You had to deal with the car that you was dealt, right? Yeah, I never worried about it. I never thought about it. I just... It is what it is. I just... You know, I had a rough life. So I was... We was poor and it's like... Well, you don't have liberties. You don't want to have... I was worried about... You know, we was like... I knew... I knew wherever I was at, I knew we were struggling and we needed... We could do better and people were doing better and we weren't... We weren't doing this bad because I remember growing up in Albuquerque and we were struggling. And we had some white neighbors next door to us. We used to go outside and play with their kids. And we went outside and they was out there playing. They were like, You want to eat some food? We were like, Yeah, we just... We eat sandwiches and peanut butter sandwiches and they went over there and they was eating dog food. Wow. And I was like... And they didn't see nothing wrong. It was normal to them and it was just like... They was trying to offer us some in good faith. It was nothing un-normal about it. It was like, Yeah, it was pretty good. It's kibbles and bits. People out there eat dog food. Those people, they were poor people in the world. I know, but that was them. I know that for that fact, there probably still are people out there who still does the same thing even today. Yeah, but that's crazy. Yeah. You would think that's absurd when you haven't done it. Mm-hmm. Right. Only seen it in TV show. I seen it on... I think it was good time. They was eating some dog... They thought the lady that was poor was eating dog food on good times. That's the only time I've seen that. And this was really going down like that. They was offering us. They were like, we got plenty. Wow. What did you say? What was your response? No, it wasn't her. No, it was good. We don't eat dog food. We don't eat dog food. So let me ask you this. I'm going to move up just a little bit. So just to get to the point of where you get into criminal activity, I've seen that you made it to the 11th grade and you had to drop out. That's what the book said. Or you got in trouble. I went to prison. You went to prison. In the 11th grade. In the 11th grade. So you was pulled out. Juvie. No. T.D.C. T.D.C. Because you was 18. Juvie is juvenile. T.D.C. No, this is T.D.C. At 18. What was the crime that you was convicted of? No, he was at 18. Aggravated robbery and attempted murder. Aggravated robbery and attempted murder. And that was your first offense? No, it was my first offense. That was my first offense as an adult. Yeah. So they had already been tracking you and watching you? They had already been dealing with you as a youth. They had been watching me on drugs. Nothing, this was on, they were watching me on other stuff, but I had been kicking those dust for quite a minute. Yeah, and I know the early part you said you at first got introduced to gangs and then the second portion is where you ended up dealing with the drug. That's only in a deal year. That's why I'm originally from a deal year. Okay. And that's when I got introduced into gangs and that's a younger part. How many times did you get in trouble before you got to 18? How many times did they catch you? Three times and I went to jail. Three times you went to jail before 18? Right. We found the purse, we tried to use some credit cards, credit card fraud, right there on the Dillion Kingsley. Okay. We went to jail on the end of there. We broke into Lake Highlands Junior High School at the gymnasium and broken in, stole some bats or something out there. Yeah, yeah. Young kids. Young kids on Church Road. Yeah. And then we went to jail still in the suburban. Oh, got you a suburban. Do you think your environment that you were in is the reason why you ended up doing the things that you did? The environment that you were in back then? The projects or those things? Right now. Like a guidance. Like a guidance because there's people, it was people who lived in the same environment who didn't do what we were doing, but if there would have been some more, if there would have been people there to say, hey man, we're going to lead you in the right direction to give you some hot way to make money or give you a way out. Give you something to do, something extra to do besides hanging out with the fellas. Because you were being raised by a single mom, really? No, because at this time a single mom had a boyfriend, a living boyfriend who we did not get along with. And he pushed us in the street. See when he, we, we and him, we butted in here for nine years. Oh, he was with a bat. At nine years old hitting you with a bat? Oh, we was going at it. Wow. Because if he was trying to hit on my twin or something like that, or he would try to just, you know, I wouldn't... And she didn't say anything about it? Oh, no. She didn't stand down. But so when you, okay, when you go to prison at 18, how long did you stay the first go around? Almost 11 years. So on the first go around, you stayed 11 years on the 15? On the 15 year sentence. Wow. So because it was aggravated, they made you stay that long or did you get in trouble while you were talking? No, man, I was actually in the 12th floor. You were a young bull? Yeah, I was 18, man. So I went down there and they did that. What you doing there? I was on a lot of you. I was on her first hit TDC. See, now one thing about TDC, TDC is, you know, a lot of people right now who be claiming to be in prison. So prison has a transfer facility. So when you first go into prison, you just don't go straight into prison. We got to go to a middle unit. You know what I'm saying? You went to the militant. So no, I went... Most people out of Dallas would go to the militant where you more comfortable. You got a lot of people out of Dallas. I wasn't that fortunate. I went to a holiday unit. Okay, you went to the holiday? Yeah. And when I went to the holiday unit, man... That's Huntsville, right? That's Huntsville. Okay. And it was mostly Houston people. It might have been like five of us down there. Yeah. Out on the whole unit. And everybody... It was Dallas versus Houston. And this back in the day, this is the 90s. This is in the 90s. This is when they... When you walk through the TDC and they say, welcome to TDC, you know, while you're down here, you're gonna fight or bust a 60. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is what they... This is what the law tells you. This ain't no inmate telling you that. This is the law telling you. And this is TDC. And when I think about TDC, that's kids. No, that's TYC. Oh, TYC. I'm mixing everything up. But TDC is a bust a 60. That's commissary? Bust a 60 is a commissary. Yes. So when the law tells you off the bust, you're gonna give up your booty. You're gonna fight or you're gonna bust a 60. Have a nice day. Get into the day room. That's what they tell you when you come into the door. So TDC was very gangsta when I went into it. So he was right up my alley. Yeah. But when I went through the door, you know, I immediately got into it with the Houston guys. You know what I'm saying? Of course. Just off of where you're from. I'm from Dallas. They were like, oh, what you mean? Oh, and he's like, where you from? He's like, I'm from South Park. I was like, oh, it's always been that battle. Then before he said something, I dragged him off the bunk, stomped him out. Then he thinking it's over because now we know because back in those days when you fought, they just told you stand outside and let the mosquitoes bite you. And then after that, they just let you come back in the door. So we standing outside. He think it's over with. He don't even know who he can talk to. Yeah. Yeah. It's all day every day. As soon as he came back everybody was like, man, man, man, we got him again. He's man, it's over with. No, it ain't over with until I'm through stomping. Yeah. We'll go back out now. We got to stand out there till breakfast. So the name, did they strip you down or did they come from? Did they strip you down or did they just let you stand out there? No, we just stand out there till breakfast. We come back in from breakfast. I got him, hit him all in the shower, got him in the toilet, stomped him out. Man, you're so... I said, man, let me tell you something. I did my first damn prayer. I said, man, you know, I had already light skin and nothing. So, hey, man, I had already, I said, man, the first dude, I'm going to give him the business. So I was already, you know, I was on one. And then I was young and I was very, I ain't saying naive, but I was on it. I was on it. Yeah, street. I was on it. Yeah, I'm going to not want to eat the food heads off the muscle. I stayed in the population two weeks. That was it. I stayed in him custody nine months and then I got out for like a week and I went back to meet him. I had to go to work. What you mean? You were on the whole squad. Even though you was getting in trouble. What is all you can do in the meeting because it is work on the whole squad. Okay. Okay. Because I was thinking if they locked you down and said something, you didn't have to deal with it. So you just got on. See, when you go to see, see some people see, say, that's close. Close custody is not because close custody that you locked up in the cell, but you still go outside and work in the field. Seg is administration, administration, segregation. That's when you locked up all the time, you know, in the cell. That's on something else. You know, you didn't cry. I didn't do that, too. You know, you know, that's, you know, you was about to ask something. So how were you when you, you acquired a name mayhem? I was about 16 years old. And who gave that name to you? The people in the neighborhood gave my name. The street I'm from is mayhem. By Spring Valley. In North Dallas. Okay. So mayhem is the far north you can get. You pass over mayhem, you in Dallas. Spring Valley is the borderline to Richardson. So if you cross over Spring Valley, you in Richardson. If you on this side of Spring Valley, you in Dallas. So mayhem is right there. Dallas police patrol mayhem, but they ain't even mayhem no more. It's that Spinoza. They ain't changing the name of the street. So that's where you got it from? That's right because I moved up where my clothes, because my neighborhood, because I come from Adelia. And when I moved from Adelia, I ended up getting shot on Adelia. You know what I'm saying? That's how the police ended up. I was a guy down by the police. They had me in the bottom of the hill shot, you know, in the shoe there. So my name was on the police report. That got us evicted out of the Adelia Heights. And then they moved us to, they moved me to mayhem. And that's when I got over to the mayhem and started hanging out with the police. And then when I moved to Spring Valley, all my clothes had mayhem. So people around the neighborhood would just be like, ma'am, ma'am. And so then everybody where I would go would be like, you've seen mayhem. And then when I went to jail, you know what I'm saying? People would just like, that's mayhem. And I just, it's just stuff. Wow. And then when you were in the prison, they'd tell you off the muscle. Don't let nobody yell or punch them in the face or something like that. You don't let nobody give you nobody name. You ain't, that's your name. And how were you when you added the mentor onto your name and why? I added the mentor on when I got out because my name was OG mayhem. As a radio talk show personality. And I could say I'm a mentor to kids. And it seems like when I started, when people got to say, asking OG mayhem, they was more fascinated with me trying to tell you about how to live a more realistic life. You know what I'm saying? What you're supposed to be doing. So I didn't want people to call me OG mayhem. So I just said, ma'am, don't call me OG mayhem. Call me ma'am the mentor from here on out. So it used to be OG mayhem. Okay. Wow. So do you feel like when you, okay, when you went to, when you was in prison and you basically said, when did you wake up and be like, okay, it's been, it's eight years now. I got to get the hell up out of here. You know what I mean? Or did you think about it like that? Or you was like, the first time I'm with the prison, I'm never really, I can say, I'm talking about all the way to eight, nine years into it, you was just still whatever it take. I don't care about getting out. The first time I went to prison, the first time I went to prison, I was in what they called penitentiary balling. Okay. I didn't give a damn about no parole. I was on some, doing some time and, and just, I didn't care. I did, I was only supposed to do seven and a half years on my 15 year sentence. I know. Here I am on 10, I'm on, I'm doing 10 years. Now I'm like, what five more years? I mean, when you started doing time, man, you started getting kind of a little confused. He was like, what five more years? Five, that's five years. I mean, I was living so comfortable in prison as, you know, I'm saying, even though I'm young and, but I'm on it. You know what I'm saying? I'm, I'm, I'm living good in prison. You feel me? So it's just like, man, you know, man, I don't even care about what parole got to say. My homeboy like, just go down there, man, they might give you something. I went down there and talked so bad to the parole people. I went down, I never, it's the first time I went down to parole. They made me look like a fool. So this time I went down there, they were like, nothing changed, my house, everything the same. So it's just like these things, this is just a rehearsal. It's like a joke. They send you down here to see parole, then they get you set off within four or five months. You know, I ain't got time for that. So I went down to this parole meeting with, with an attitude. And I was like, they were like, what you want to know? I was like, what do I want to know? I want to know what's for child hall. And they were like, what you mean? So I was like, man, I want to know, you feel me? That's it. That's all I want to know because I'm going to go get something to eat. And I left that parole people right there and I ended up getting the F-I-3. What? They gave you one. They gave me an F-I-3. Why? Because they felt like they couldn't change the way you responded to them or they was amazed by it. I didn't even know until I got a land to go to, to, to go to the school house. I'm like, well, he ain't in no school. Would you give me a land for it? You ain't changed. Changed. So I must have made parole. I'm just trying to get through it. You come home. How long did you stay out? I stayed out a year. You stayed out a year. What was the cause to make you go back into the situation? After 11-year sentence, you like, okay, now you get out. I'm free. I'm for to do right. Oh no. Hell no. I'm out here. And I don't know what I'm about to get into. I said I was going to do right. I mean, my homeboy can't pick him up here. The gun in the car. Oh lord. I didn't left him. I can't be hanging out with you. At first. At first. At first, yeah, because first thing my homeboy pull up, he got heat on him. I can't be hanging out with you. I already got no good, but my dad in the past in a way, I was doing good. I got my CDL license. I seen that in the book. I got my CDL license. I was working at the DLW airport. I was doing great, man. I was really focused. You feel me? I had a lady that was a teacher at high school. Okay. The Soto High School teacher. What about that? Beautiful. I had a beautiful life, man. My dad was like, hey, man, come see me. My dad, at this time, was living in California. This is my doctor dad. He got to be married. He's doing great. But he's like, hey, man, my dad was born with his kidneys on the outside. So he was on dialysis. He always kind of been struggling with his body, but I'm not understanding how serious this is, but he had dialysis. Okay. So he's running out of his kidneys and stuff like that. So he tell me, hey, man, I don't think I'm going to live too much longer. I'm not going to die. Then I'm going to tell you I love you. And this is, you know, so we got to have this conversation. And he's like, when you're going to come see me, I'm like, I'm going to come see you, but I can't come see you because I ain't been out of prison for, you know, prison got stipulations. And when you got that murder case and aggravated robbery and you got all this, they ain't going to live. Yeah, go ahead and stay. They ain't trying to do none of that. So I'm like, listen, so let me do six months and then I got to put this information in, then I can go out. But by this time, I'm going to get my money up and then I'm going to come see you. He's like, don't worry about it. I'm going to come see you. Okay. I'm going to say, all right, would that work? My dad left from California. He had a massive heart attack in Santa Fe, New Mexico. Wow. On the way to come see you. On the way to come see you. On the way to come see me. Wow. So now I go to, I said, well, you know, I got to do the right thing. I messed up, man. That's crazy, man. That's a hard blow. Well, let me do the right thing and go see Tia Perot. Perot, my dad died in New Mexico. No, you can't go. Wow. So what do you think I did? We're ballistic. Start turning up again. Now I went to all, my dad had three funerals. We had one in New Mexico, one in California, and we buried my dad in Louisiana. You went to all three? I went to all three of the funerals. So they, yeah, it's on. It's up from there and on. So now, once you go to them, do they automatically violate you or you made it back? They automatically violate you. Man, I'm gone. I'm out of there. I'm violated. I don't even care about no parole. Man, I'm out of there. By the time I came back to New Mexico. Now you're on the run. I'm not on the run yet. But you know what I have a question, and hold on, put that on pause one second. What? Did your twin brother fall down the same path? No. No, the reason why I ask you, because when I ask you if your area or where you grew up have an impact on where you went and you said it was because you didn't have the leadership or the mentorship so your brother was raising the same house, same situation, same everything, but he didn't go that path. Oh Lord, he had a worse of a childhood than I had. My brother was my, you know, he was like, you know, he was my wife version of me kind of like per se, but he wasn't he wasn't kicking up no dust and he got in trouble. He stayed in some, he stayed in T.Y.C. So he did get in trouble too. He was incarcerated most of his teenage years. I didn't get incarcerated until I was 18. So he did go down the same path somewhat. Yeah, kind of. Okay, so that's what I was trying to figure out. If he was like the good brother. We both have four felonies. Okay, okay. Continue with your story. Go ahead. So we back at the point of your dad, you didn't violate it really and you think you don't know you violated. When my dad died, I went back to it. So what happened was I'm still working on something like, okay, you know, don't worry about parole, I can explain that. Right? So I go to my job and my job tells me we're going to suspend you because, you know, you just took all. You didn't tell us nothing because I had been locked up. I ain't never had no job. I don't know you're supposed to notify nobody and nothing like that. So I let them know, you know, okay, well, whatever this happened. So I showed them my dad's obituary. Obituary. They were like, all right, cool. So come back in two weeks. So here I'm strained up because I didn't went through all these criminals. I ain't got no money and won't nobody let me borrow any money. I ain't got no cars. Never. I've been doing good. You know what I'm saying? I just need to pay, you know, catching. You've only been out a year or so. You ain't even been out four years. I ain't been out a year. I ain't been out a year. You've got six, seven months, right? I've been out maybe six, seven months. Yeah. But now I got the car. I got a house. I got rent. I got all the stuff I got to pay for. And now my job tell my two weeks and they, you know what I'm saying? So what you want me to do? You got to get to it. You know what I'm saying? I need some bread. He was like, I can't eat no bread. But I give you this. Yeah. That's how I did them too. So I was like, all right, we'll come on with it. So I said, I'm just going to, I'm just going to make 10,000 and then I'm going to stop. Right. That's what I told myself. Yeah. I made about 80,000 and about three weeks. It wasn't no stop. So I don't need no damn job now either. I didn't even need the job. And I violated it. I'm fine. I'm running really. I'm on the run. But anyway, I got jammed up by the grace of God with a half a brick, 40 cal, all that they got me. Half a brick, 40 cal, what happened after that? Did you? I went back. That's when I went to prayer. How many did they give you this time? I got, listen to this. This is a funny story too because when I got jammed up this time, I prayed. I was like, man, look at her Lord. I said, if you just give me, if you can just let me see some daylight. Man, I said, I promise you, you feel me? Like what would my dad say right now? Yeah. He knew that his son was back in prison. You feel me like, you know what I'm saying? He would be disappointed. So I said, what would he want me to do? He would just say, do better. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Do better. So I was like, I bet I'm going to do my, I'm going to try to move forward and try to do better. And I prayed. I was just like that. So the first time they was coming at me 25, 15 and five. Then they were five. It was 15, 10 and five. Then they were five, then I said, no, they said, then they came with three eighths. Three eighths. Three eighths. Okay. 15, 10 and five. You tell my three different cases with these different numbers. Three, because I end up having the item catching one case, the dope case, a secret indictment and the pistol case. So I got all three of these cases I'm facing after just doing 11 years. So I told them, I said, listen, if you can, I said, if you can give me something, if you can give me something under 10 years, something I can do out there. Let's go back to the fact of how you, you basically was, was you listening? No, I was talking to him. Okay. When you, when you, when you went back to jail or when you was getting ready to go, when you was getting ready to get this time, the 10, I was thinking the 10, the 15 and the five, I was thinking that that was the same sentence they kept coming at you with, but these are three different things they're trying to give you time on. And then you end up getting 8, 8, 8, that's dope. Right. How'd you feel? How would you, I got to take this. Say, man, it was funny because I remember going back, I was in the government center. I remember going back into the government center and I was happy that I got three eighths and everybody was looking at me crazy because they were like, man, you got eight years. So you didn't never go to New Holland. Oh yeah. I went to New Holland when New, I went to New Holland when it first opened. Oh man, that was a, that wasn't a car. It used to be, it used to be the cook chill. Yeah. Yeah. I was back when it first, brand new when it first opened. First opened. Yeah, 96. So when you, okay, so when you get these 8, 8, 8, how much time did you end up doing on the, on the concurrency? Six. You did six years on that. So let them in six, six, okay, that's 17 years. Wow. 17 years. And that was the last one when I meet you I was trying to get it there. Yeah. I remember looking at your pictures, these same pictures on wall. Some of the same ones. These pictures come to prison. Yeah. These same pictures, I was looking at them. See how I got to do it? You see how I got to do it. I was looking at these pictures. What did you think when you seen the pictures? The pictures of me and I say, man, and Steve, man, yeah. Me and NJ used to walk me and see, because you know, everybody in, I say everybody in prison is not going to be real. I don't, you know, I'm buying to this everybody the same and life is fair and everybody needs a trophy. Everybody is not the same. Right. So, you know, when you in here, you know, I was trying to, like I say, I was on a mission. But, but, but check this out. When you, when you see the picture, because I remember when I sent the pictures to the prison, I was sitting and called me and my boy, you know, I want him to be able to, you know, look, and when you get out, we going to be kicking it. He told me about, when we get out, we going to Vegas. We went to Vegas. He told me, he's been telling me, you got to chill, man, with this, what you doing? Yeah. I got a plan for us, man. Just listen to me. He said, I wouldn't listen to him. He said, man, he'd be sending me these letters right now. He got a plan for me. He wouldn't open up these stores, man. I want to work with a man. Yeah. We've been rocking from, from way back. When he was a kid, yeah. When he was a kid, he said, man, and he always has a love for me like a big brother, man. He said, man, and that's why I say, when I came, I said, mama, because me and him. You brought me about. Yeah. Me and him went through a lot because we left that unit. He followed me to another unit. I know it. I don't see how that happens because you know how crazy it is in there. It's a hundred and nine different units over there. Wow. And not only did he follow me over there, we were cellies. Wow. You see how God do it? We were selling. And I was telling him when he came through the door, boy, I was so happy. It was like, it was like Christmas. It was so happy to see him over there. Let me ask you this though about the, when you get the pictures, y'all, you say you thought something. What did you feel about the fact of, okay, he got a homeboy in the world. He lying, this nigga lying. I used to think every nigga was lying when they tell me stuff. I ain't trust these niggas locked up. Well, pictures say a lot of things. So, you know, it really don't matter what somebody say. You can say what you want to. You pull out that picture. You like, oh, the nigga got a picture. Yeah. Or somebody else come in and they verify what you know what I'm saying. So, so MJ was already verified. Okay. So, you know, he didn't show everybody the pictures and all that, but the pictures, definitely, but he didn't show everybody. First of all, he just showed, he didn't show everybody the pictures. Yeah. That's the way he is. He really didn't show everybody. He didn't feel to do it. He really didn't care about what anybody had to say. Unless you were cool with the cat or just somebody else. We used to walk around the track a lot. That was all little, you know, you know, things we used to do, you know, because men, like I say, men going to talk. So, you're going to talk about some real issues or you're going to talk about the gossip girl stuff, going to talk about what came on the soap operas, what you're watching on TMZ and stuff, you know what I'm saying, or you're going to talk about how you're going to take care of your family. So, that's what I was on and so he was like, hey, I'm going to be, you know, because you got to realize I was, I had been in prison 14 years before MJ came into prison. Real talk. You know, and when I tell people, I came from Coalfield and, you know, I was on Coalfield 12 years, like you said, the TTC units. That's really, we consider that not a rock and roll, it was like you had been locked up a long time and you was respected because they knew you had, you was a person that dealt with time for a long while when you say Coalfield, right? Coalfield one of the biggest and most, it's a legendary unit. You know what I'm saying? But I was on the Wallace unit, I was on Telford unit. I was on close custody. Damn it. I was on close custody after the Smith unit. After, because I was in the biggest ride in the state of Texas. The Mexicans versus Black. You know? Wow. That was a big thing. That'd be crazy. That's very crazy. You know, people died in that ride. They said one person died in the ride and I swear to God at least 50 people died in that ride. Wow, they tried to cover it up. And this ride was in prison? Yeah. In La Mesa, Texas. I didn't know. The person died. They talked about one person got decapitated. That's the person who they called dying. But see, how a prison does it, if they don't die, they life-flighted all the people who died out of the unit. So nobody died out of the unit. You know what I'm saying? Oh yeah, they tried to cover it up. They died here. You see how they did it, except the person who got his head cut off, yeah, of course he'd have. He died. We could lie. Yeah. So let's do this, man. So when you when you come home, I see you come here. Now let's talk about the fact of how we get to Mayhem the mentor, the book, the book, the black massacres, how you came up with the concept. What made Mayhem say, I'm going to write a book? You know, I know you was well educated because when I talked to you, I knew that you was on something totally different than everybody else around me. So good look on this book, man. I love what you wrote in the book. And I'm just going to be real, which I'm going to sit back and let you tell me how this thing came about. I wrote this book as, you know, as I was talking to kids, right? On the anniversary of this book, on the anniversary of black Let me, let me see what we got here. On the anniversary And it's on your shirt, too. Right. On the anniversary of Black Wall Street, I had one of the youngsters that I was talking to. He was coming telling me about Black Wall Street. Did you see that? I seen that. I liked that. We hear a baby? Right. So they were telling me about Black Wall Street like it was the only one that happened. And they were telling me like I didn't know about it. And I was just like, once we get the information, we want to share it. And I said, it is a blessing. But at the same token when I started to elaborate that this wasn't the only black massacre, he was like, nah, nah, this is the only one. He was like, nah, this is the only one. I'm telling you this thing because I would have knew about it by then. So I was telling them well, did you know about this black massacre? Did you know about that black massacre? He was like, nah, I didn't know about none of that. So I said, you know what? I need to write a book because not just on black massacres because that's what I was telling me. So as I was writing the book and I'm getting writing the book and then I'm hearing on the news constantly that the government is trying to limit what they teach black students on black history. They don't want to teach the truth on black history. And I was like, well, if we don't talk about what goes on in this book because right now we're going through what, voter suppression, right? They're trying to limit critical race theory. They white lost history and they black massacres was caused by voter suppression. Wow. So you got to realize this book isn't just black massacres. This book is called the black massacres, a tribute to Black Wall Street, the Tulsa, Oklahoma Massacre, the first 27 black massacres in America after the 27 war after the war began. Right? And the reason why I say after the war began because before the war began slavery existed. So before then massacres and crime or something that would probably be documented is something that could have been done and swept on the rug and just whatever. But after after the Civil War began then everything was pretty much documented. So one of the biggest things that happened like one of the biggest right, you ever seen the movie Gangs in New York? Yeah, I have. You seen it? Yes. Now the movie Gangs in New York since you've seen the movie, right? No. Could you? No. Because the movie is called Gangs in New York and not the first black massacres because the Gangs in New York what they got is about the Bowery Boys and the Natives. Right? Right. Right? Or the Dead Rabbits. Right? The Dead Rabbits is the Irish immigrants and the Natives Bowery Boys is the the Natives. Mm-hmm. Both of them races. Wow. So during if you see the end of the movie it says that the Dead Rabbits break out. The Dead Rabbit right happened in 1856 the New York City Draft Ride did not happen until 1863. Wow. So we talking about you know you know this is about six years different. So this bad this this ride had nothing to do with the Dead Rabbits or the natives or the barrel boy. This was all about these white boys killing the government of the United States of America and then massacring all the black people out of New York City. New York City at this time, all the black people lived in Manhattan. Wow. That's why Manhattan got cleared out. That's why Manhattan's one of the most newest built places down there because it was destroyed during this, this New York City draft ride. We know how destructive or how deli the Civil Wars, right? The most deli's insurrection in the United States history was the Civil War. The second most deli's insurrection in the history of the United States of America was the New York City draft rides. Wow. And they tried to, it was a draft ride. It was the barrel boys and the barrel boys. They was together. Wow. You see it in the house. How did you get this information? How did I get what information? The information about the New York, the movie, the gang movie about it being really a mirror of really the oppression or the massacre of the blacks. Well, I knew about this ride before the movie came out. Okay. Because when I was in prison, I couldn't read and write. When I first went to prison, I was street smart, right? Me talking when we first, when I first got locked up. So when I got to prison, I couldn't read. And so I started, I had to learn how to read, teach myself how to read again, which I accidentally taught myself how to read by reading those books, Donald Gohan books, Iceberg Slim books, and all these gangster books. And by me reading that, because I ain't never read a book in my life. People be like, man, you 18, 19 years old and you never read a book. I'm like, I sell drugs. You know, I can rob people. I will bust your head. You should me read a book. But what I need to read a book for, that wasn't on my thing. You feel me? I was on some real live bus in the head. The book was not something I would never probably did until I got incarcerated. So I read those books. After a while, I read so much until my reading got so good. I read, I stopped reading the gangster books and I started reading documentaries. Wow. And then when I read, I read all the documentaries I could read. Malcolm X, Martin Luther King, you know, everybody, man. There's so many. So I read all the documentaries I could read. And then I read a book called How to Use Both Sides of Your Brain. Wow. About your brain, brain pop. Teach you how to mind, mind map, speed, read, memorization. And after that, I told myself I would never again read another fictional book. If I can't read something that's not gonna benefit me or nothing like that, I'm too smart to be reading these books that can affect my mind and what I read. So I gotta be careful of what I put in there. So after a while, it wasn't like a resource. I started reading Encyclopedias. Now when I was reading Encyclopedias, that's when I would find out about these, these rides. But I mean, like I say, and when I would run across the Atlanta rides or the Wilmington, North Carolina rides, I would read about them in the book. And I would get mad about it and I would read, read, read. And I would always be just, that's how it passed my time. So that's how I got familiar with these black massacres by reading Encyclopedias while I was incarcerated. If it wasn't for that, I probably wouldn't have knew about a lot of them. Wow. So that's the hope that you would bring it to the forefront. And I noticed you mentioned the New York one first and in the book, you start off with that one. That's the first one, it's the biggest one. It's the biggest one. So that's why you start with that one. But then when I started looking, I said, man, it's 27 of these things, man. It's like, I never knew that. I was more prone to this. What you said, the same way you explained it, I would talk about Oklahoma and you see that one cause many people, they publicize that one. But it's 27 and I think that's dope that you brought that to the forefront. It separates yourself from seeing, by reading the book, I hope that people can understand. See, most of these black rides were behind the black vote. And that's what I'm saying. This first one, this first black ride, right? This first black ride was behind Abraham Lincoln enforcing the New York City draft on the citizens of New York City. And those citizens were fusing it. This was the second time that they had Draft Day. So this was the first time this, and when it popped off, it just popped off. And the first people they attacked wasn't the black people. They attacked the police. You know, they attacked all the rich people. They tore up Fifth Ave. And then they started not letting all the black people. You know what I'm saying? But that was behind the draft. But after that, it was all that. Behind, after that, all the other black rides, I'm saying for the next 10 or 15 black rides was all behind political reasons, the black vote. They did not want, when we were allowed to vote, I think we had 136,000 registered voters when black people were allowed to vote. Four years later, we went from 136,000 black registered voters to like 4,000. Wow. And then two years after that, they went from 4,000 to 2,000. And we talk about, this is why Ku Klux Klan and all these, these games weren't created to just kill black people. It was their fear tactics, right? They were here to stop black people from voting. Fear tactics. And they did that by fear tactics. People like Ku Klux Klan, hey, black, they just here, I said they had a reason to be here. Stop just being, focus. What were they here for? Wow. They were here to stop you from doing what? Voting. Wow, may have the mentors in the building, guys. You better tune in to this one. This is heavy, man, information that really, our people need this, man. You know, when you look at our people and the stuff that conditioned us over the years, how much do you think all of those rides and the things that go on with those people then versus what goes on in the black communities today, how, what do you think any of that transpired from that? Meaning? We need to talk about the lack of trust. Yeah, you talking about, because we talk about where does this black, where do black people miss, where do black people get this mistrust of the police? Well, it's in the book. Because sometimes in Memphis, Tennessee, in Memphis, Tennessee, in a couple of these black massacres, the police and the fire department participated in the black massacres. Wow. So do you feel like it's something that, how do we, how do we fix it? I'm gonna fix it, guy. Like I'm always saying, what can we do to make a difference? How do we change the narrative to make it to where our people can start to grow and heal? Is it counseling? Is it, is it you doing the, the outreaches you're doing? Or how do we start to help the situation? Well, I say we start talking about real issues. All right? Like family. The most important thing that I can realize from all the studying I've been doing, the most important thing that this country probably needs to see is strong families. Black families, white families, it needs to be a family. That means man, woman, and child. And people talk about, we talk about all of this family, like everything we need to include everything, but we can't even fix the, one old thing that we used to have. That's man, woman, and child. And what do we, what's the most important thing that your family's supposed to be doing? Your family is the people who hold you accountable and tell you, you shouldn't be listening to Meg and the stallion and popping it. Your mama is supposed to be telling you that, not a preacher, a teacher, no, but mommers and daddies is the one that's doing it. The family nucleus is accountability thing. That's where your grandma and all that, because your family was gonna let you know what you represented. And say, we don't represent that no more. We represent it as a family, because you're on this team. But now it's the families being taught, the families, it's about individuality. I'm gonna get into this a little bit. Nas X, it was a picture of him with a stomach. You know, cause I know you- Show him like he's pregnant. Yeah, like he's blessed his heart. Where does this come from? Like- A lack of attention. But, you know, because I know, I think about like different culture, different people, ethnic groups being around him. And I know that, that that's a part of it. I mean, and he does this because of the entertainment field, of course. His influences, that's the thing I think about sometimes. What's the, you know, what is the, what is the effects? Why? What is that for? Again, the human being, they say, I teach people this all the time. We need your family for accountability, right? But the human being is a special, unique creature. All the creatures around the planet, right? The human being is one of the few things we require attention. That's why they always tell our children, you got ADD, you got attention deficit. You can't pay attention because the human being, we desire attention. And what kind of attention do we desire? We desire compliments. So, human beings are controlled by compliments. Your hair look good today, man. You're doing good. Your book said, oh, man, you're good. And if you're not getting compliments or somebody's not paying you attention, and somebody's not giving you that, then you have a lack. You got, what am I doing? Ain't nobody saying that, nobody watching me. So, sometimes you got to realize that will control people. So, then when you start watching them, you say, well, why is he doing that? So, like, for instance, for me, I'm a gangster. So, in my adolescent, I want to be gangster. So, I got to get the people to believe in my philosophy, right? So, I got to do things to get their type of attention so they can talk about it and give me the type of compliment. So, when I'm out in the street, somebody would say, what's up, fool, what's up, fool? Oh, you was, yeah. What are you talking about? What you talking about? As soon as he move out, boom, you see, man, man, him's gonna be playing. That's what I live for. I wanted that type of attention. That fool seen it, ask him, ask him, ask him. How many times somebody say to ask him, they'll tell you about, because they want somebody to verify that they got to the attention and they want you to give them the same. So, it's all about attention. So, when I see somebody, a kid told me, he said, why did this kid go to this, kicked a, walked into a church and slapped a preacher? I said, because he wanted somebody to say, man, he crazy, because that's the type of attention he desired at the time. But my thing is be careful of what you allow to control yourself, because again, this is what we're talking about, power over principles and principles over power. So, when you don't understand why you're doing what you're doing is because you don't even understand, because at that time, I didn't understand why I would pull a gun out in front of everybody and shoot and do something like that. And then, because I really didn't want to do that, but I did it because people were around. And I knew if they were around and they saw it, then people would talk and they would tear, they would get, those compliments would be out everywhere and people would, and I would get that and then people would know me as that and my name would ratify and people, I would become known and so forth. So, when you got somebody like Lil Nas X, whoever chance he gets, you got first off, look at who is Lil Nas X? Who is he? He's just a kid that was a barb, he was a barb and he was a barb. Lil Nas X before Little Country Road was a vagabond, was a kid who slept on his sister's couch on the bed, but nobody in their right mind ever get this anything, he was a little kid who slept on the couch of his sister, he was almost kicked out, he was almost homeless. You went deeper, he was a barb and that. He was a, he loved Nicki Minaj, that's how they discovered him, but yeah, I get what you said. That's not, I don't see, that's all, that's a facade. We're talking about before all this. Yeah, yeah. Before he had to go there, before he had to sell his, do what he had to do, free himself, right? Because this is all this old free stuff, right? So boom, you come out with Old Country Road and you came out with a song, clear you wasn't trying to express your game, it's there. That's right. That's true. He don't come out the door doing it. You don't come out no door doing it, you come out here, you make it and you realize you relate that talented. And then you understand, okay, well, I'm in the industry and I made one song like, who's that a goal all in my mind? Yeah, Trinidad's name. Yeah, hey, one song can get you into that office where they, hey, sir, you want them to get with us? Hey, put this on. He was so, if you was already one step from living on, you almost got kicked out. That's why I say, that's why I want to teach my kids get the bag. Entrepreneurship and financial literacy is one of the most important things. Your family is supposed to be teaching you so you can be financially stable so you don't have to compromise who you are and do the little Nas X stuff. Because again, the first thing, let me tell you something about little Nas X and anything that's homosexual. The first thing that I feel that you have to do in order for you to be a homosexual is you have to go against your family. Wow, let me ask you this. So you called me one day and you was like, man, T.I., man, he went on, I think he was on the breakfast club and you was like, put me in touch with T.I. Well, I don't remember what the subject was about, but the subject was about, he was talking about the guys in Dallas when we had an incident down in Dallas. Sure did, that was exactly what it was. The woman was going down the wrong way street in Dallas. The white dude that was trying to help her out while telling her, man, you going down, because you know, downtown Dallas can be confusing. So he was really trying to go out there in good faith and trying to help the lady. The lady got out there talking sideways to the dude. You feel me? Talking, you know, like, yeah, don't tell me. You know, and it's just like, you know, comfortable talking sideways to the guy who you really don't know. She don't know this guy. You don't know him, but you get out the car talking to him like you really know him. Like sometimes people don't know me, but you're talking real comfortable. So the dude tell her, look, hey, man, I don't know who you think I am. I'm not the guy that you want to play with. He pulls out the hammer. It's on video. She pulled out her phone. I got a phone. I'm gonna record you. He slapped the phone out of her hand to let her know. I'm serious. Get that back. I don't even care about your phone. Your phone go flying. iPhone. You want, he got, still got the gun in his hand the whole time. She swing on. Boom. He not, he, boom. He, he unleashed on her. He rock up. Boom. Sleep up. Boom. Drive off. People's like, why are you in the hell? So to people like T.I. As black people, we already got a dunk and died and survived so much adversity as it is. Now you want a black man who already avoided prison, jail, dope cases, all type of everything. Madness to come give his life up for a black woman who clearly wasn't trying to stand down now time after she seen all the signs that said sit down. The man get out the car. The black lady was wrong in every step of the way. You driving on the wrong way. The dude pull you out. He'd say, hey, ma'am, you're going the wrong way. You don't receive him wrong. You go off on him. Who you think you are? I get it. The man tell you what's up. You know how black people don't look at that now. Listen, again, my thing is I tell people all the time, I don't know nothing but black people. So all I know is how to hold black people accountable. I don't know how to be around white people and be like, well, how white people think about it. I don't care about how white people think. This is how we need to take, if this was my sister, I would say, what are you doing? Why would you think that playing with somebody with a gun is something that you think is cool that you want to bring in my face? You want to tell me that you thought this was a good idea and you want our family members to keep trying to think you can act tough. You can't, sometimes you got to know how to walk away. It's not about you all the time. You ain't always going to get your way. You can't always fight your way out of every situation. Come on, man. That's mayhem the mentor, guys. Save, man, we love you, brother. Real talk, we love you and you know your family. And this ain't the last episode. Me and you got to rock out. I told you that weeks ago. I told you that when me and you was outside talking, I said, we got to get this show done and the day we got it done. You said until I got the book out. Man, the book is out, man. Black massacres, guys. Y'all got to go get that book, man. I'm reading it right now to be honest with you. It's over and over again. It's wisdom, man. 27 massacres when you only talk about the boy. Listen, it says wisdom and knowledge are the most unfortunate places. Wow. And some of the people don't want to read the book or they feel like I'm trying to do the book. I did not write this book to Kashame or Khadim. And why they white? I wrote this book because I'm tired of hearing people say, ain't nothing changed, man. They say everything's still the same. No, it's not the same. It's not the same. We changed a whole lot. We changed a whole lot, man. And if you knew better, you do better. The more you know, the less you can't be manipulated by anybody, even me. That's why I say, hey, trying to trick you, man. Go teach something. If we all on our A game, they can't stop us. But if you worry about me and I'm trying to stop you and everybody, that's why I say, man, we can be sharp. We can all be on our A game. And that's why I leave my family to hold me accountable. That's why I would tell you again, your family is what holds you accountable. We losing that. We losing our accountability protection. And with our accountability protection, we can't be our best self. Wow. Thank you so much, man. God bless you and your family, man. And you family to us. So, hey, man, we gonna all wait. You know our number. You can call me anytime. Check it, man. Hey, man, it's been another great segment of Boss Talk 101. And we have.