 So we are really excited today to bring in two of our favorite AOC team members, Suzanne and Erin, who help us both inside and out of the program deliver an amazing experience for all of our boot camp participants, and particularly really focusing on improvisational comedy. And over the years, the boot camp has evolved and changed quite a bit in large part due to your help in really making Thursday and Saturday shine for the guys. So we're going to dig in to what we mean by improvisational comedy, because it can sound a little intimidating, especially for those of us who don't think we have a good sense of humor, and talk about the lessons that we can take from improvisational comedy and how they play such a big role in every part of our life, not just those moments where we're on stage. And of course, we're going to share the silly story of us meeting for the first time and and the amazing pitch that Johnny gave about the art of charm that made you guys jump at the opportunity to work with us. Well, and before we get to all that, I guess we'll just have you all introduce yourselves. I'm Erin. And I'm Suzanne. I didn't go where I was supposed to go. I didn't either. I didn't. That is improvisational. Very good at improv. I don't know what to say. So to give the audience a little more color to what we mean by improvisational comedy, how would you to define improv? So I mean, first and foremost, it's just not having a plan. Improv is just, you know, going in with no plan and flying by the seat of your pants. No script, no directors, no. Literally, the only thing is maybe one word suggestion from the audience. So it's being comfortable with not knowing what you're going to do or say, you know, just even hearing about that sounds, I'm sure, for a lot of people, and even for myself, thinking about it, terrifying, being on stage, everyone looking at you and you have no plan as a performing artist myself. I dread the idea of getting on stage without a plan. And I'm for any of my ventures being on stage. I'm so well rehearsed to so that I can feel confident and feel good about getting on stage. Well, there's definitely obviously a preparedness element, obviously, like we train together. And I think just like with anything you prep for a presentation, but you don't know what's going to happen a lot of the times. And so I think a lot of times the greatest thing about improv is just getting comfortable in that uncomfortability factor. Yeah, I mean, I know a lot of guys will say, oh, my gosh, I could never get up on stage and do that. And it's like, well, yeah, but I also wouldn't go give a presentation at your job or I couldn't just play guitar because I haven't done it before. So you feel that way just because you haven't done it before. And the more you do it like anything you can. The unknown is always really awkward. But once you start to kind of pick it apart, it starts to become less scary. Well, I'm sure the audience is going to well, we'll tell the audience how y'all got involved and why we wanted to bring an improv into the classroom. But I would like to get a little background of how you both had found your way into improv. Do you want to go first, Susan? Yeah, I will. I will do this. So I basically trained classically and improv was not in my thought at all. And about 10 years ago, I wanted to take a commercial class. And the woman who ran the program was like, well, you have to take improv to be good at commercials. And I was like, OK, fine. I'm not really like comedy is not necessarily my thing. When you said you trained classically, what does that mean? Oh, so just theater major, you know, Shakespeare, dramatic acting, all the great classic plays. And now we're going to do improv. Yeah. And I was like, I this is not me. I mean, I'm a little weird and I have, you know, can be funny, but I'm not a pro. And so I walked into this class being terrified and being completely like, I don't think I can do this because I like to have a plan. And this is totally not my alley. And so I had my comedy mentor, Donovan Scott, who really like taught me to just be OK with flying by the seat of my pants. Anyway, so I got into comedy that way. And I said had resistance all along the way. I was like, no, this is not it. I can't. But I kept, for some reason, yes, ending life a little bit. And now I'm here, you know, 10 years of sketch and improv under my belt. And comedy has kind of been the forefront a little bit and met Aaron because of it. So yeah. Yes. And one of the tenants that we're speaking about in a little while. Yeah. Yeah. And I I had dabbled in it here and there. And then now it was about eight years ago. I lived in Singapore for a year and some of the people I was working with at the theme park at Universal Studios were like, let's just start a little like improv practice group. And I was like, oh, that sounds terrifying. So of course, when I feel that way, I'm usually like, I have to push myself to do it now because especially in the theme park, when you're doing the same thing over and over and over again, it's nice to just do something where you're free and play. And I just fell in love with it and came back to LA after Singapore and kept doing it. I trained at UCB and then kind of fell into this group that with Susanne. And that's when we started improvising together. Yeah, about like eight years ago. And much like the question that I asked Susanne about being classically trained, what did you have previously that put you into performing arts and then which ultimately led you into. Yeah, improv. I started dancing at a very young age and then got interested in theater when I was about 11 years old. And then as soon as I was on stage and made people laugh for the first time, like, then it was over. That was all I wanted to do was make people laugh. But I also trained classically like in college and everything. And so to all of a sudden do something where it's like, your suggestion is hot dog. And now you have to just do whatever when you're like, I do Edward Albee plays like Pulitzer Prize winning plays. But yeah, so it's actually really freeing once you let go. Do you feel a lot of people in the performing arts sort of look at improv as like the weird wacky little cousin that no one wants to deal with or at least that's the way it seemed for for you all. Yeah, I mean, definitely there's a little bit of a snobbery around improv, especially like bad improv. I mean, it's made fun of on every show. Like the office made fun of Michael Scott doing it like all all forms because bad improv can be really like just like nails down the top board. But but it is really like a great exercise for anything. I also feel like nowadays it's a little it's seen a little more is cool because there's I mean, not the SNL hasn't ever been big, but there's just a lot of more sketch comedy shows and shows like the office in Parks and Recs and where improv is a huge part. So I think it is seen as a little cooler, but maybe a pot in the theater world. It might not have been seen. I have no idea. Yeah, I'm not part of whatever club. I well, I could definitely see what the popularity of those shows and people wanting to get involved and understand what it's a take to get there. And of course, the improv road is can be a long journey. And and like much like a lot of things we talk about in self development is something that you're never going to be a pro you only get better personally as you go through that journey. Yeah, you can get better and then still have this huge fall back. Like you're like, oh, I'm used to being on stage now and not getting nervous or anything like that. And then we said a year or so ago, we did a huge sketch show, which actually you guys went to on the Comedy Central stage. And right before the show, I had this internal meltdown. And I was like, I can't do this. I can't go out. I don't know what I'm doing. And I looked at Aaron, who I thought might have been having the same internal meltdown. But we just didn't acknowledge it. We're like, let's just go do it. And then about a minute into the show, we were good. And after the show, Aaron's like, I almost left. Yeah, I was like, I was like, I'm standing backstage. And I was like, the back door is only like 20 feet away. I think I might just walk right out the back door and just not come back. And I think that's what's remarkable for everyone listening is that even if you've been doing something for 10 years and you've trained and you've gone through all these opportunities to perform, there's still going to be those moments where you feel like I'm not good enough. I'm not enough. This isn't going to work. So the goal is not to turn the other way and go, oh, everything I do is killer. The goal is to find those moments, push through. And as you said, within minutes, it dissolves. It's anxiety. It comes and goes. And that's one of the main reasons that we really brought you guys into the program to help us out, help our clients working through their own anxieties, especially around their humor. And listeners of the show, back when it was the Pickup podcast, and it was geared solely towards attracting the opposite sex and flirting with women, we talked a lot about this idea of banter and how important a sense of humor is to break the ice and get some attraction going. And we launched a few episodes around banter specifically, and we got a lot of pushback. I can't say those things. I'm not funny. You guys are funny. You guys have the one-liners. That's you. It doesn't work for me. And that's what's been so amazing about having improv in the course is that everyone has a different sense of humor, and there's no right or wrong sense of humor. It's finding your own voice and allowing it to come through in those moments where you feel a little awkward, a little anxious. And I'd love to just share the story of how we met, because it's funny that we're on opposite sides of the table because we actually had opposite perspectives of how it went. Yes. Pushwork spouts now on the show. So you and I have talked about doing improv for a few years. We had done it in New York, and it pushed our buttons. So we had a large group of support staff then. There was 15 on the team, and we had someone classically trained come in and do a little team-building exercise with everyone. And half of us loved it, half of us hated it. But we were like, you know what? There's something here. It's challenging, and it allows you to push on areas where you're probably not pushing. And let's be honest, the reason it struck half of the room in such a certain way was an indicator that this is something that needs to be implemented in the class, because it is going to places, pushing people in places where they're uncomfortable. And I think that was where we had looked at each other like, aha. Right. There's something here. There's something here. And so we had been talking about it, and we didn't really have room to do it. But we wanted to at least kick around the idea and see. And with video work in the course, and what we do with video work is we start the week where you're going to practice your approach, meaning working on that first impression. How do you strike up a conversation with a stranger? And then how do you showcase that sense of humor? And we would talk about humor and how important it is, but we struggled to get it out of our clients and get them moving and showcasing that sense of humor. And we would often get to Friday or Saturday and finally break through and get little cracks of humor from the guys. So this was an ongoing struggle for our guys in class. And we really realized there's got to be more to this than just video work that can really pull out the sense of humor and really work on it. So that's when we started talking about improv and one of our guys. Well, the other thing is we specifically wanted it to be taught by girls. We wanted to have some female, feminine energy in the room with classes at that time. Well, the company at that time was predominantly all meld. Which is funny, because now it's 85% women in the company. And we get emails, since Johnny and I have been doing the show over the last couple of months, emails every single show. Where are the women? Why are there not women on the show? Why is it just you too, Jabroni, guy talk? We want to hear some women. So we brought you on to satisfy our listeners. We listen, we read the emails. If it's hate, send it to Johnny at the art of charm. If it's love, send it to AJ so our egos can handle it. You let us out of our cages. And we fed you before we got here, so everyone's taken care of. It was a delicious meal. So we wanted, yes, we wanted to bring in some, we wanted girls to teach that class. We felt that there was enough meld to test us around and toxic masculinity to run around the place. So let's lighten it up. And let's be honest, a lot of us as men struggle with showcasing that sense of humor around women, right? It's a lot easier to joke around guys and kind of play on the same fratty humor that you had in high school. But around women, how do I showcase that sense of humor and come off as charming, come off as interesting? Well, the plus is just way away the negatives. And of course, we're... I'm sure they want to hear the negatives, Johnny. Share that after show. It's been so long, couldn't even think of it. So we asked a buddy of ours, Justin Foster, a brilliant comedian in his own right here in Los Angeles, if he knew any girls who had taught improv. And it just so happens, he's like, I do. I know just the girls. I know just the girls. And he had put me in touch with Aaron, who I had contacted. And I had set up a meeting with her and you did not go. You were like, you can handle it. Go ahead and talk to her. And I was like, yeah, I got this, no problem. I got it all worked out. And I had met Aaron at the 101 diner. I'm Franklin and I pitched her this idea. And she seemed, at least to me, because I have a great lens for positivity. I was like, very positive, very excited. I was like, yeah, she's gonna get back to me in a couple of days. I think it went well. Totally nailed and pitched. Yeah, you came back all excited. Yeah, absolutely. And I was like, great. We're gonna start doing improv. We got some help on video work. Yes, yes. It's funny that you say this now because we find out that Aaron's classically trained actress. So she did a very good job of persuading you in the moment that she was sold. Well, yeah, well, the whole thing was to present this in a way that was wholesome and constructive. And I thought I did wonders. And she was like, yeah, no, I saw right through that. Yeah, I was like, oh, this guy seems like he thinks he's slick. Okay, so what you're really telling me is that you have this thing where you have guys come from all over, learning how to manipulate women. No thanks. How did you get that from my wonderful pitch? I feel like it's probably also just baggage from the, we didn't know anything about this. Right, yeah. And at that time, I feel like is when I had first started hearing about pickup artist stuff and the game and all of this. So I was like, oh, that, when I looked, I think I Googled after we met and just looked things up and I was like, oh no, I don't want to be a part of anything that just helps women be manipulated. Like I can't live with myself doing that. So yeah, I was just like, no thanks. So we had went, what, a year? And at the time, we were still having some difficulty finding regular video work girls because of we had some actresses and they had a lot of things going on. We were doing it on a shoestring budget. And very often there would be other shoots that would come up that would pay more than AOC. So we were losing. But I was determined to rope Erin it because we wanted the improv so bad. And I was like, there's gotta be a way. I'm just gonna table this for now but we're gonna come back to it. And it had been about a year and we had talked, was like, okay, well let's give Erin another ring and see where she's at now. So Erin said, I'm in one condition and she came back with, I'm teaching my own section in class. It's going to be improv only and I want nothing to do with your video work. And we said, well, we can't afford that. Thank you. Thank you for the offer to teach in our class. Like Erin had such confidence, she's like, you know what? I'm getting my own day and I'm taking over. We're like, wait, what? This is our program. So that's not gonna work. But we stayed in touch. And how did you come to the conclusion to check out the video work section? Well, when Johnny reached back out and I did like in the meeting, I did like Johnny. I thought he was cool. I was just like, this isn't, I don't wanna be a part of this whole global thing. So when he reached back out and asked about video work, I was like, okay, this guy seems nice enough. He's also like Justin vouches for him. Justin's a great guy. So I was like, all right, can I just at least see what this is? So then I came in and watched video work and was just like, oh my gosh. And this is back when it was, you know, apartment in off of Hollywood. And it was just like in the small living room there. And I came in and observed and I was just like, oh my God, this would be such a helpful tool for so many people to really just get to practice and then see yourself on camera. Just like, you know, I mean, athletes do that. Like any kind of, you know, when you're training to see yourself on camera and then be able to see the things that you're doing right and things you're not doing right, it's eye opening. So I was like, what a useful tool. Actually, I'm really interested in this. And what's so funny is, you know, we took Dale Carnegie high impact presentation training and they filmed us giving talks in front of the room. And going into that training course, I was like, I got this, I've done so much public speaking. I've been on stages, nothing to worry about here. I get up, I get my first talk and I'm just expecting the proctor to be like A plus that was amazing standing ovation. She's like, well here, let's go in the other room and look at the video. I'm thinking, we don't need to look at the video. I nailed it. And then I saw myself on video and I was floored that that was the presentation. That's what I was doing with my hands. That's where my nervous energy was going. That's how poorly I was making eye contact and all these little nuances that internally I certainly wasn't feeling. And I had this vision of how I was on stage and that was not what I was seeing on camera. But then the flip side of doing it a few times, I started to see the improvement and felt really empowered and it became exciting. So the video work was an important section of class that we added probably about seven and a half years ago based on a friend's suggestion from what he was doing in his programs. And then we added a second component so that the guys got to see their growth for themselves. On top of that, video work does pull out these moments where we lose our train of thought, we lose the words. And those are the moments where improvisational comedy really come in when you lose the script because everyone goes into the conversation mapping out, I'm gonna say this, predictably they're gonna say that and then I can say this and this is when I'm gonna hit them with that one liner. And inevitably, the art of charm, the art is the part where you can't memorize these lines, you can't anticipate someone else's response because oftentimes that's not what they're gonna say. So in these moments, we're seeing this on camera of our guys get a little frozen, get a little nervous about it to now adding improv in between the second video section and we'll speak to some of the transformations you guys have seen. It's been remarkable how Friday's been an entirely different video experience allowing the guys the opportunity to break out of their shell. What I'd love to know from you guys now that you've been through the other side and Erin, we've talked to your husband about this as well, it's not, that's the one thing that I love about the art of charm most is it's not just us going in saying do this, do that, do this. It truly is both of us and the clients going in and learning. And we're constantly learning even as we're up in front of the room teaching new ways to present ideas, new ways to formulate ideas. And I know your husband spoke a lot to this Erin, is there anything that you guys have learned from working with the clients over the last five, six years that you've taken away from video work? Absolutely, I mean, I feel like I always went into an interaction thinking I'm the awkward one, I'm the nervous one, the other person. You just assume the other person has it all together and for some reason you're the wreck and that holds you back from having interactions that you wanna have because you've, you just have that cognitive distortion that you're the awkward weird one. And through doing video work on the other side of it I'm like, oh, everyone feels like they're the awkward weird one. And kind of how great and freeing that is to be like, it's just awkward to talk to someone new no matter how, even if you play it off as if like, I am so awesome at this. I mean, the guys will tell me like, oh, it's so easy for you to talk. And I'm like, I remember the first few weeks doing video work, I was so nervous doing video work as the person there that's supposed to be like, oh yes, I'm so comfortable talking to everyone. But it's like, it's not, it's helped me in social interactions immensely just changing that framework of like, oh, everyone feels a little awkward talking to new people and that's fine. Yeah, that definitely for me was one seeing that everyone feels awkward but actually, which I feel like I learned a lot was committing to your body position. Like the, which I'm sure AJ can actually probably explain it better but what I'll say is that I was finding in circumstances of whether it's interactions personally or networking circumstances that I was feeling very stressed about like this pressure to have to like talk all the time. And then I'm doing video work and I'm watching you guys say like, no, you have to stand in neutral body position and not positive because it feels like too much pressure. And I was like, that's why. Oh my gosh. And I started kind of just in certain aspects when I'd go out, like let me just see if I could just stand next to the person and it would just take so much pressure off for me. So I feel like there's been a lot that I've learned and I'm sure Erin can attest to it too of just like from the program. Like even though I know we're here teaching the improv stuff, it's like, we're still learning from you guys too and it's just, it's really great. I wish I had this earlier. I wish. I think all of us would say that. What I'd like to know is so Erin started doing the video work and then she had roped you into the song. Like, so I would love to hear this, how this conversation went. Cause I'm sure you had to probably have heard about it a few weeks before she's like, so I'd like to bring you into this whole thing. So I'd like to hear that conversation. I wish it was this grand hilarious story, but it's like, honestly, by the time Erin had vouched for you guys and she had had such a twist, a 180 in how she felt about the program that when she came to tell me about it, she was so filled with, she was like, you gotta come, you'll come see it, you'll see how it goes. It's so amazing. I wish I had had this. And so basically I was just more excited to see what it was about. And I came and mirrored, shadowed her doing video work and I was like, this is so great. And the guys were so great and everyone was so positive and everything you guys were coaching about I wanted to be a part of it because if I can be at all, a small change in how someone sees themselves, that's amazing to me. Did she tell you about our first meeting? Did you hear about that? Do you know, I feel like I didn't hear about that until we were all talking one time at dinner. And I was like, I didn't know that at all. Erin's a great friend hiding pertinent information from you. She was like, I'm here to sell you on this and I'm not going to tell you about the stuff that happened before. I didn't. I don't think I really told many people about it because I was just like, oh, I want to see what this is first. And then I was like, ah, no, no, no. So I was just moved on from it because I was like, oh, if we are going to do improv there because I did think that it was like just for the improv part. So I love that it was like this thing of like, wait, you're trying to sell us on improv. I think it was just. We, to the point about the video work and why it's so important in class and why we wanted to bring in professional improv trainers, instructors is because it really is a moment for these guys to practice in a controlled environment and get feedback where we're going to go out but there's a lot of other variables we can't control while we're out. On top of that, we have guys through the program from all walks of life. We have military guys. We have guys who are married. We have guys who are divorced. Then we have young guys who actually want to learn how to be better with women. So with that, you know, not every approach is this dating scenario where you're a girl in a bar and we got a hit on you. You guys have the ability in the moment to change roles and very quickly drop into, oh, this is a networking. This is a conference. This is a simple event. This is an opportunity for me to chat with you in the grocery store. So that allowed more flexibility for the video work which we didn't really have previously when we were just relying on some models and actresses here in LA. And that's been amazing for the guys to be able to get those minutes and moments to practice. Well, I also want to say to Aaron's and Suzanne's credit, like, you know, the people that we've had previously helping us out, they just, I don't think they never got the big picture. I mean, for them, it was just a paid gig, right? And Aaron, to her credit, saw the whole picture, right? And Susan, you just mentioned as well, was like, well, if I can be a part of this change, well, how wonderful is that? You know, this is something that these people are gonna remember probably for the rest of their lives. And it was for you two, and Dion as well, who saw the full picture. And, you know, we had been talking like, not only that, but for probably the first outside people who really got what we were trying to do, which allowed us to feel much better about what we're doing and lean into it more like, actually, people do get this. Right, and for us, one of the big limiting beliefs or sticking points that a lot of our clients have going in is that, and this kind of comes back to the PUA stuff you're talking about, the only way to get her attention is to be negative, is to cut her down, is to knock her down a peg. And what I've found that's been so amazing from you guys coaching in class is your ability to roll with the punch, but stand firm, that that's not gonna work, and give the feedback so they know that, listen, yeah, you may have read that online, you may have saw some guy do it on the street in a video, but real self-respecting women are not gonna take those behaviors. And giving the guys an opportunity to work through those toxic mindsets, those toxic viewpoints in class, they can come out the other side and know, oh, I just have to showcase some sense of humor, I don't have to take shots at her to be this cocky, funny, amazing guy, I can actually elevate everyone and have a laugh in the process. And I know we've had those moments, right, where I'm holding the camera and the guys get a little nervous and they unleash something that I'm like, I hope you didn't mean to say that, and I can see your reaction, but it's been very helpful to work through these things in that classroom setting. And I do wanna give a little sneak announcement for the women that are listening, we are going to be launching a women's program, Suzanne and Erin are active in the development of that, so yes, you too will get an opportunity to get some video work and some improv comedy coaching later this year. So we'll announce that date in a bit, but I know we get a lot of feedback. Yes, we do. The audience is about 60, 40 right now, 60% men, 40% female, and it does feel like we've left the women behind, but we're hiring women, we're bringing women on the team, and we're growing to start working with women. Now, why are we even talking about improv? Why is this so important outside of just the boot camp? So the reason we're talking about it today is it's something new, it's something challenging, and that's what we're huge proponents of here at AOC. So even if you don't take a boot camp, check out an improv class in your hometown, and to your point, it is growing in popularity. There are schools popping up all over and some of our guys are even impressed. Wow, there's improv in Des Moines, I can't believe it, right? Kinda think of it as coastal, but not any longer. Second thing is, now you get to challenge some of these limiting beliefs, right? Our guys in boot camp have the limiting beliefs that you have to be negative to succeed. Improv's gonna challenge a lot of those limiting beliefs about what you're capable of, what you're made of on stage, and what you think is funny. Well, just last week, when I was going around the room to get introductions, one of our clients that week, Steve, he was like, I'm not funny. I'm boring. I was flat out immediately, and I started laughing because I knew what was about to hit him that week. And I think a lot of people get it in their mind where to be funny, they have to have these comedic lines or the witty one-liners, and if that eludes them, then they're like, well, I'm boring. And the actuality, why improv is so good, and you guys can expand on this, which is when the guys see it on the syllabus, they start to get nervous because they're like, oh no. But the thing about it is the answers of humor are gonna be in the other person, and it's also gonna be in allowing these situations to build and allow your quirkiness and your uniqueness as a human being deal with this situation. And if you're able to laugh about it, so can everyone else in the room. And so it's about getting comfortable with those situations, but also it's not about being witty, it's about listening. And adding too, right? Good improv is not one person on stage commanding all the attention. It's a team environment, where in order for the sketch to play out, everyone needs to have an opportunity to play along and join in. And I'd love to hear from you, Suzanne. Improv, right? Now you're giving me the look that I see in class. Yeah. I'm like, oh no, what? Were there any limiting beliefs that you had going into improv that you had to work through? It sounds like in the beginning, right? You had that same sense of like, I'm not funny, this isn't something I should be working on. Yeah, I definitely, like, I'd always been silly growing up. And I thought that there was a difference between, oh, I can be silly with my friends and being a funny comedian or something like that. So when I first started improv, which I was very resistant to, I will keep saying I was resistant to, I feel like I was resistant to even just a couple years ago. I was like, I guess I'm an improviser now. But I very much am a little bit of a control freak. I like to make sure things go as planned and that can hurt me a little bit. So in improv, I always, this is a story that I think describes it perfectly. We were six weeks in to my first class and my teacher had said, was explaining how to do a game. And he said, does anyone have any questions? And I started to raise my hand and he said, except you, Suzanne, put your hand down. Just do it, just stop trying to get it perfect. Because while I am not necessarily a perfectionist in everything in life, I can be about certain things and it can hinder my growth because I don't do it because it's not perfect. So I wasn't playing the games in my head perfectly. So I wasn't having fun and I wasn't doing it right. And as soon as he said that to me, I had this moment of like, oh my gosh, he's totally right. I need to stop being so worried about getting it perfect. And from then on, I started to have more fun and in turn be better and get better responses from my classmates and start to enjoy it more. And kind of since then, I've just always been a little bit more like, even in life, I'm not gonna plan how this is gonna go. I'm gonna prepare, but I'm not gonna plan. And it's been a lot easier for me. So I feel like it's leaked into my personal life too. And I know the one thing that I love about improv and one of the main reasons we really cheer our clients on after the program to take improv is the camaraderie you build in that safe space where you're failing together, it's a challenging activity, it doesn't matter what level you're at, one or year 10, it's still going to challenge you. There are gonna be moments where you don't think on your feet, but you gotta stay in there, you're on stage, you can't just exit stage left, right? If people are watching you. And then the friendships that come out of it. And when I was in college, my ex-girlfriend had joined an improv troupe and it became her entire social circle and then I got a chance to hang out with everyone in that group. And they were the most fun, loving, amazing, supportive friends that you could ask for. And I know we've had an opportunity to see all of your friends in your troupe and the relationships that you've built through improv, which has been another huge win for our clients to experience. What was it like for you, Erin, taking your first improv class, walking into the unknown? Oh gosh, I mean, I feel like I had, Suzanne and I are pretty similar in that we like to have everything planned, we're controlled, I mean, literally just the other day with something with Artichoke, I told Johnny, I was like, wait, I need another week so I plan everything out, I have to practice it a few times and then once I do it, I'm totally fine and the anxiety goes, but... I was quite taken aback by your panic. I was like, really? Well, it's gonna be fun. Yeah, I mean, I just, like Suzanne is saying, I wanna be prepared, but then I can go from there, but I remember just being like, I mean, having always had a script really, when you always have a script and you can just memorize it, that's a safety net of I always have this to fall back on and when you have to throw the safety net away, like literally throw the parachute off and be like, I'm still gonna jump out of the plane. That's what it felt like and it felt, and I at first constantly judged every single thing I did in rehearsal, I would freeze and just be like, I don't have anything to say and like walk off and but in a way it's so good to push yourself to do that because then after you do that, you go, that really wasn't that bad and I could have just said something or I can just wait until I can think of something and you just constantly push yourself and then you can do it, like you really can. And these are principles that are important outside of the improv, right? Being prepared but not memorizing, putting in a little bit of work allows you that flexibility to improv in other areas and I know both of you have lessons where improv has played a big role in your success personally. I'd love to hear from you, Suzanne, how you took improv principles into your professional life because I know you've had a lot of success with these children's books, cats out of the bag. Yes. Oh no. They're up Barnes and Noble but I've been trying to hide it. Yeah, so I run a startup with my mom, it's a children's company and I write a lot of the books which is a whole other story about resistance at some point that I had towards that but we're in it now and part of the job is going to do live readings with the most vocal, honest audience of the world, children. Of course, yes. Children also who are probably kindergarten to third grade who have no filters. And you know, you plan a reading and you're like, I'm gonna read this book and I'm gonna read it without any stops and anything like that, that's not the case. Like there's always someone yelling at you and it's a lot of times positive but sometimes there was this little boy who I was reading the word vase and he's like, it's vase and then another time a girl is like, I like your shirt or like, what are you wearing? You never know what's gonna happen and I feel like if I hadn't have trained an improv I would be like panicking inside because I'd be like, it's disrupting the rhythm. What's happening? How do I react to this? Where now it's just like I'm able to interact and like acknowledge but also keep it on track. So, and children are, I love them so much but they're terrifying because they're so honest so it's just such a good, it's such a good thing to have like a tool in my belt. And that ability to withhold some of that emotion too, right, where it's not gonna be helpful and Johnny and I are often in the audience at your shows and we're losing it and we're wondering how are you on stage not losing it with these talented comedians cracking these amazing jokes. So a lot of it's being able to stay in character whether you're in front of kids or on stage. Yeah, and it's like you said being, I know that I can freak out inside and have an emotional like, but I also know from experience of video work when I was training that I don't look as terrified as I feel and because I know that, I'm able to just be like, okay, this is happening. Let's just push it aside and keep moving cause no one else is recognizing. And Erin, I know you've been on the other end of pitching and trying to win over an audience in a different way. Yeah, so I mean now it's about four or five years ago I had my first pitch meeting first, a script that my husband and I wrote together and I really didn't even know what a pitch meeting was like what are they gonna, so I like my prepared self, I like planned out, we talked about like Mark is like, well, we'll just go in and I'm like, no, we need to know what's gonna happen the entire first season of the show. And I'm not even thinking of like pitching other shows which now I know obviously I would be prepared to pitch all this other stuff. So we go in and the meeting's going pretty well but I'm nervous and I'm hiding it and then they were like, so yeah, I bet you've planned out the first season of what the show would be. What about like the second and third? Like what would that be? And I was like, what? I planned out exactly what I want to say for this whole first season thing. Why aren't you asking about that? But I was just like, oh, we've thought about that too. And I just like tap dancing in my head. It's like I'm doing a little time step just tap dancing and making this stuff up. And after the meeting, Mark was like, did we talk about that? Did we talk about the second and third season? I was like, no, but we had to say something and a lot of times in those pitch meetings, they're not looking for the perfect answer. They're looking for, are you confident in what you're doing? Would you be able to handle when you are in these meetings or you're in a writer's room and they're saying, okay, pitch me some more ideas? Like can you just pull something out of your butt? You know, that's interesting. For myself, seeing it in music, it's like, okay, well, so you have a great set. Do you have any material for another record? What do you have going on? And I like the idea of whether or not you do that you're confident that you could put something together because you have all the time in the world to grow up and put this first set together. You have all the time in the world to put this first season together of the show. But what happens then? Yeah, exactly. You guys always say in video work too, when you're comfortable and confident, you make the other person feel comfortable and confident. So that's all this is. Like all this is being in situations where you're able to feel comfortable and then you're like in business situations, you're letting the other person know, I can handle this. And we are all about dispelling myths here on AOC. Perfectionism, procrastination myth was a big one, got a lot of downloads, a lot of feedback. The myth that I wanna dispel today is improv is not about being funny. And this is where a lot of us get hung up. It's like what we've seen from improv sorta runs the gamut either. The best stuff, whose line is it anyway, which is really intimidating, or some of the worst stuff, like the Michael Scott stuff from the office that we were talking about, right? But the middle ground is really where the magic happens because it's about being present and this mentality, yes and. I'd love to hear more from you guys about because I know it's such a big mantra on improv it really powers the whole thing. So what does yes and mean to you, Suzanne? Oh, yes and means to me, accepting. So hearing the information, which is, that could be hard if you're not listening. So listening to the information and then adding onto it, adding a statement, adding something onto it to make the conversation or the scene go forward, so moving forward. Do you have anything to add to that? Yeah, no, I was just gonna say it's, yes. And that's where people get tripped up, right? Because this idea of it, I have to be funny, actually takes from the scene, takes from the moment and robs your partner of an opportunity to have fun too. So this idea of coming up there with witty one-liners and trying to kill the crowd with humor actually works against you on stage in improv because your teammates, your participants can't get engaged in the scenario and it often falls flat, which is what we see in class time and time again where the guys are waiting for that one moment. I'm gonna unleash this witty one-liner. I haven't worked up for years. I was a show airing in Suzanne, just how funny I am. And they deliver it and it falls flat because it doesn't actually move the improv act forward. Yeah, I was gonna say, we play this game called These Are Five Things and we're like, we give a category and you just shout out the first five things that come to mind and every time we have to be like, don't try to say the wrong thing to be funny because I promise it won't be funny but if you really say the first thing that comes to your mind it almost always is really funny because it's like, what, where did that come from? But if you're like, oh, I'm gonna say hot dog. I don't know why hot dog is my heart today. I'm gonna say hot dog because that's gonna be funny and it just isn't when you try to plan instead of just being genuine and being present. Well, and the reason why it's not funny is because you're not listening. It's funny, I watch it all the time on stage the person rev up to plan for that joke and they don't understand why it doesn't get a laugh and that's because the whole audience knows you're not listening to what the other person is saying. Of course. One of the rules which in improv is don't try to be funny, play the scene, be truthful, listen to what the person is saying and comedy can come out of that. Well, the other thing that we see in video work is the guys who are so well prepared they just try to steam over the, the answers they don't want or weren't expecting they just try to roll through me. They steam roll over the weather, whoever's doing the improv and so they'll blurt out for 90 seconds this whole thing that they have worked out and of course they watch it back on video and they're aghast because they're like, I just wasn't able to cooperate or add anything and then the whole thing is about, especially being on stage is it's allowing everyone to be part of this and to work together and so upon gaining some interest is allowing the other person to feel that they're a part of this meeting for the first time rather than you steam rolling over the other person. Well, it's also, that's assuming a lot of responsibility and that's what we say on Thursday in the bootcamp too is that it's not your responsibility to make this conversation go perfectly and to be like in control. Your responsibility is to listen and give some statements and answers and it's like, it takes two and I think that's where the guys sometimes feel stressed is cause they're like, I gotta make this right and it's like, it's not all in your hands. Take that stress off yourself. Yeah, I like to think of the humor and conversation as the seasoning, the salt and pepper. It's not the meat and potatoes and when you think back to the conversations that you've had, the funny moments don't really stand out. You just remember having fun. So the funny words don't stand out and when we get so hung up on the words and we try to come back with that one liner it falls flat in class. It also falls flat in conversation and we've been on the side of that where someone's just talking at you they're not giving you an opportunity to disclose anything and at the end of the conversation you're like, I don't really like that person. I want nothing to do with them. So improv works that conversation muscle really well allowing you to yeah, be silly, but also listen. Well, and what you were talking about earlier with the negging thing that that's why that doesn't work for high quality women because if you come up and you're just negative and just say something rude, it's like, it's just like an improv. If you come up in the scene and go like, no, that's not what's happening. You shut everything down, nothing can move forward whereas something you can still tease and play once you've set up some good rapport and go like, oh, no, I'm sorry, we're getting into war. So that's sort of being negative but you're putting it in the context of like, we're in this together and we're having fun. You've established the fun first, like it's a safe place. So when you are being silly or challenging it's not in a negative way, it's in a fun way. And what I love about the mindset that works so well as guys get into Friday and later in the weekend is those moments where things don't work out tend to be really fun and improv. Where things don't go your way, it tends to be really funny. And we at Johnny and I always laugh because some of the quietest shy guys going into improv will often have the funniest, most memorable moments because they have an opportunity to actually just blurt out what's on their mind instead of holding back, searching for the perfect thing and what they find very often is that first thing is the funniest. That first thing is typically the one thing that's coming from a genuine place, has some vulnerability and allows other people to engage versus the scripted mindset where you're searching for the perfect thing, it's not there and then you're struggling. I know we have a really funny story that took place on a dance floor. Yeah, sure. So one of the guys, I mean, gosh this was like probably a year or two ago now. One of the guys after the improv workshop was like, yeah, we went out, he told me the next day, he's like, we went out last night, we were out on the dance floor having a great time and this girl and her friend walked across the dance floor towards the bathroom and I was like, hey, when you come out, like come dance with us, join the dance party and she just turned around, looked me right in the face and went, you're disgusting. And he's like, normally I would have been like, what the hell and like, what a bitch and been so upset and carried it with me through the rest of the night. But we talk about an improv, like commit to your positive attitude, let things roll off of your back and really commit to what you're there for which is to have a good time. And he was like, I felt fine. He just like called out to her like, well, I guess you don't like dancing, whatever, have a good night. And kept dancing with the guys and then he said later. Yeah, he said later that he had noticed she was crying to a friend. She was having a terrible night. She wanted to hurt someone like she hurt. It had nothing to do with him. And so he realized like, oh, I kept my positive energy and I didn't need to take on that negativity. So like we always say commit to your positive energy because a lot of the times when people aren't negative to you, it has nothing to do with you. Well, it's easy to get knocked around emotionally and want to fall down that trail. And it's to commit to that positivity. It's just a wonderful, it's a wonderful message. And improv takes the air out of failing. You're going to fail together as a group and some of those failures are gonna be the most memorable, funny things. Your zingers, your one-liners are not gonna be the most memorable things. People will forget that. I would love to hear just one failure on stage. I know you guys have laughed at a few of them. Erin, you're laughing the most here, what? Yes, I mean, this just happened. Like this is the thing, it doesn't matter. I mean, I've been performing since I was 11 years old, which is obviously not that long ago, but this just happened a couple of weeks ago. Me and my friends do this sketch that we've been doing for a long time. We really like it. And we get asked to do it different places. And my friend was like, yeah, this place we're gonna do it. And of course, because she always gets good gigs. I'm like, yeah, I show up and it's a church. And it's like five people in the audience, I think most of them are the ones that are gonna be performing later. Everyone who gets up on stage is like, so I didn't know this was a church or that there was comedy being done in this show. So already it's like, oh, great. So we're gonna get up here and do this really silly sketch that's all set to music. There's music is the only thing, there's no lines. It's all choreographed or whatever. And then they're like, we don't have a sound system. So they're like, can we play it on someone's iPhone and we'll just hold a microphone up to it? Well, I'm not that tech savvy. I did not realize you have to put some setting on your phone so your phone doesn't just turn off like, you know, fall asleep for a minute, 60 seconds. So 60 seconds into our scene, the music just shuts off. And so we're standing like by an altar in a church. And I'm like, oh, and the only way to unlock my phone is with my thumbprint. So I have to run off to the side of the stage, put my thumb on the phone. 60 seconds later. And so on and so forth. And I was just literally even at one point I like whispered to my friend next to me, like, should we just, can we just call it a night? Like let's just walk on stage. And, but we didn't, we trucked through. And then afterwards, like these sweet, sweet people that were in the audience were like, that was really great. I'm like, no, this makes me feel even worse. Just be like, yeah, that was, I'm sorry that happened. Yeah, it was a nightmare. And you could laugh about it. Yeah. That's a valuable lesson to come from improv is that failure is a part of life. We talked about this in the perfectionism episode. If you haven't listened to it, double back and check out perfectionism. I know some of our listeners struggle with exactly what you were saying, Susanne, of like, well, I don't even wanna do it because I know it's not gonna be perfect. But working through that in improv, supportive environment, great group of people. So I'd love to wrap today for the listeners who maybe can't make it out to an artichoke boot camp. Although obviously we all agree it's a wise investment. If you can't make it out to the boot camp but you're interested in improv, where do you get started? I know a lot of our guys ask you guys as well, what are the best classes to take? How do I throw myself in? This sounds exciting. Well, A, Google is your friend because I think like we were saying, it's more popular now, almost in any city there is an improv class that you can take. And the best way to do it is just don't hesitate and throw yourself in and understand that you're gonna feel embarrassed. You're gonna feel like you failed. There's gonna be a million negative feelings you have about yourself and that's amazing because what you're trying to learn is how to push through that. So look up your local improv place even if it's at a university or something. And I suggest taking it, I taught improv before this and most of my students were not actors. They were in sales and marketing or coming out of the military. And so I definitely suggest it. I wanted to add to that. I know a lot of our guys are very into self development and a lot of them do mixed martial arts or BJJ. And you're going to just, you're going to go get your ass kicked is basically how that is going to be. And you get used to it. And then of course it's very addicting. And so much in the same light, improv is you're going to get on stage and it's going to be awkward and you're going to fail but it's going to be addictive and you're going to continue to go for that. And getting your ass kicked or going on stage and maybe things not working out so well it becomes part of the process and you get used to it and then you can own it where those mistakes become growth. Yeah, you're also going to have a lot of wins and they're going to feel amazing. You're going to feel so good that you got this win despite falling a million times before. Yeah, and it's not on stage every single class, right? What we're talking about here is group activity. Everyone in class is failing. You're running through some games that allow you to think on your feet more, be witty in those moments where, hey, there's a lot of pressure on you, some eyeballs. And then at the end, you get to go hang out with a great group of people who are fun loving, don't take themselves too seriously into Johnny's point are probably into self development. And it's never too late to start. I want to give a shout out to some of our guys who have gone through. And I know Ted, CFO locally here in LA, never in a million years on Tuesday would have imagined he'd be taking improv, signed up for improv and now he's blogging about his personal journey. Griffin, another guy locally who came in in his shell, very nervous about just walking up and talking to someone and now we got to see him on stage. And I want to say, I know he had done just a couple, but he's new to that whole thing and so were a lot of the people that he was worried with. And we went to his show and it was hilarious. It was funny. Yeah, it was great. So you don't need to be 10 years in to have fun on stage either. This is not something that you have to become an expert in but it really tests you. It pushes you in ways that maybe you haven't been pushed before. You don't have to be a performer at all. Some of the most funny scenes, like literally boot camp last week, there were some incredible scenes that Aaron and I were laughing hysterically and that's from people who probably took one improv workshop, the current one. They were taking it out. So yeah, you definitely don't have to be in it forever. Well, thank you for joining us today and giving the listeners a little bit of a sneak peek behind what goes on at boot camp. I know we get a lot of questions about that. Yes, we also have women working with us. So thank you for proving that point. Check is in the mail, guys. So we appreciate it. Is there anything that you all would like to plug while you're here? Yeah, where can our listeners find some of your improv? Or the children's books. Yeah, we'll go to Mutasia first. Oh, okay, yeah. So my company is Mutasia, M-U-T-A-S-I-A and you can find it at Mutasia.com and learn all about the books that I write. Yes, they're amazing. So our home was iOS, which sadly, as many people might know, just closed, so we're looking for a new home. But if you go to either one of Suzanne and I's website, we always put our show schedule up and we have sketches there as well. So susancutsocus.com or erinmaroski.com. Erin is, I'm now paying her, because she's like, here, go to Suzanne's website. You'll enjoy it. Thank you. Thank you very much.