 warm welcome to everyone who's watching Creative Talks right now. Today I have a very special guest here with me who's joining all the way from Rome. He's one of the most awarded creatives in the advertising industry with 54 cans, lions, one Grand Clio and one Groppery in New York film, New York festivals. And he's best known for his work on Heineken, like the most recent being Back to Bards and of course, Nescape is Good Morning. I'm absolutely delighted to welcome Bruno Bertelli, Global Chief Creative Officer of Publicities Worldwide. Hello Mr. Bertelli and thank you so much for joining us. Good afternoon, nice to meet you. I hope you've been well. I'm fine, I'm fine. Great, great. So lots happening at your India office. Be it integration or people moment, let me start with the integration part of it. You know, just two months ago, I think the group integrated two publicity agencies here, BBH and Publicity Worldwide. Now what are your views on this new model, this new structure where two very, very defined agencies report to one common boss? So I'm really, really pleased about this collaboration between Publicities and BBH because they're two different cultures but at the same time with a very strong brand, the culture, which I think is the common ground for the two realities. And again, in India, you know, there have been so many good agencies but kind of stable. It's not like other markets where there are a lot of new entries and new changes and I think having some newity actually in the market will help. And a new proposition between Publicities and BBH is really, I think, is very welcome for the market. Again, BBH is a great reputation. Publicity was more like a client focus agency 360. I think the combination of the two together can be very interesting for the market. Okay, and tell me how do you go beyond an integration like this? How do you go beyond paper and actually reflect that? You know, how do you get two agencies to become one? And what are the expertise? What are the additional areas of knowledge that it will bring together? I think, you know, the bringing together is mainly on a management level. Then it's all about getting structure and see, you know, where are the differences and keeping the differences. In this kind of situation, it's really the integration that works. But that doesn't mean that, you know, one has to become like the other one. So keeping the difference, I think is a kind of the secret of success normally. So I think that that will be will be very interesting. Again, as I said, for the market and keeping this to different cultures, but actually working together. Yes. And how do you see an integration like this panning out in other markets? You know, if it's successful, will you bring it to other markets, integrate agencies, both agencies in other markets? But as you as you know, you know, our our cradle, our, our, our belief is the power of one. So publicist is very client focus, let's say, so market by market, we really try to collaborate and work together, depending on the needs of the of the clients, especially now with what happened with the COVID, there are a lot of needs, you know, that's coming from from from clients, which is not just communication related, but also business related. So having more brands working together, coming from different backgrounds, I think it's, it's not just a nice thing to have, it's really a need in in this in this moment. More than ever, we need to be partner of our of our clients in in this moment and only an integrated approach can can solve that. And when I say integrated approach, I mean like for real, not just on a PowerPoint and not not just to sell one agency and another one or whatsoever. So the big question, you know, that in the market at the moment, it's really how to make creativity and media and data working together for real in a in a in a constructive way. I think in the in the past, the way media and and the creativity have been working together was more in a way to make actually a creativity more efficient, let's say, you know, adjusting creativity, depending on the results, and just simply the future will be much more about efficacy. So how actually data information, you know, everything coming from media can help creativity, but at the beginning of the process, not along the process. Make sense. We'll make a lot of difference in the future. You know, interestingly, we having this conversation at the time when your agency in India has been in news, you know, recently, I think Shreja quit the agency. And just before that, Ajay had also exited the firm. I bet you and your South Asia had a lot on your plate right now, how are you going about it? Actually, you know, this is an issue regarding the COVID. I'm used to travel a lot to visit explicitly, you know, the new situation on new entries in, in especially on on on on a creative directors level. My idea would be actually to come to India in February, you know, to actually to talk to the new creative directors and to check the situation. Because as you said, that's been changing in the in the last two or three years quite often. But I think now, especially with this, with this model between publicist and VBH, this, the situation will be much stable. And let's go to the awards part. You know, two years after a no awards policy to support the investment on Marcel to coming up with your own awards called cans do using Marcel, you know, how has the journey been for publicists? Actually, I have to say, you know, that this, the, the, the relevance of Marcel has become a kind of a necessity with the COVID. So Marcel was a tool that actually created a connection, not, not only between offices and capabilities, but also among people with the same interest, sharing opportunities. So it was, it was, it was really amazing, you know, and I think, unfortunately, we added this, this, this, this pandemic thing, but these are accelerated, actually, the opportunity to connect to each other, and especially regarding opportunities, regarding jobs, and so on. So making actually the process much more flexible. I just, in only US, thanks to Marcel, we've been able to save over 1000 actually job places. Okay. You know, so how different, how different is was judging cans do? You know, you've been a jury for a lot of international awards, and this was an internal award. So how different was it, especially during the pandemic? I have to say, not, not, not much different because I've been judging also a couple of other awards, still, you know, virtually, so from, from, from home, I've been judging the end is and, and I think those are something else. So it was similar process. You go through a lot of work. And then you come to a short list. The only big difference is the discussion. Obviously, you know, when you are physically in the same jury, you can spend like two or three days discussing about the work going very deeply. When you are in front of a computer, normally, you cannot do it longer than four or five hours. Okay, right. Now, I'm sure it was just as tough to win these, these awards as well for the people there. It was, it was amazing, the submission of the worker. And again, thinking about the power of one, it was not just work submitted by creative agencies, but also different structures. You know, we had also workers submitted by epsilon by save by the media agencies. So it was a way actually to integrate it even more under the same, the same umbrella, all the different brands. And in this case was just about creativity, not about, you know, effectiveness, results, or whatsoever. It was just a true true creativity was very inspiring. And tell me what has been your biggest learning from the pandemic? And which, which of your agencies across markets have performed really well and responded well to the crisis? It's a good question. I have to say that the agency that actually responded better were actually the agency where that they got hit before. So for example, in China, then in Italy, you know, when, when we started actually understand what what was going on. So you had the chance actually to communicate about the pandemic before other markets. I don't know if you noticed, but there was also some critics about the fact that most of the work was very similar, you know, all the COVID was also some some jokes about it that was always the same structure with the same kind of music and so on. So let's say that in the countries where actually the COVID happened earlier, the work obviously was a fresher, more interesting, because everything was new. So it was also more more creative. I have to say. And then the second thing is that the best work that I've seen in within the network was on the big clients, which is kind of reverse the the the normally the hierarchy. Normally, you have like a really great worker coming from small clients, you know, like underdogs. Because of because of the COVID, the COVID supposed to such a global issue that people really needed to have a point of view from big brands, you know, to get guidance, to get inspiration, to get a little bit of hope regarding the future. So and forced also big global clients actually to give point of view to be a little bit more inspiring. I would say kind of Nike style. It was interesting to see good worker coming from big clients. You mentioned Heineken, Nestle, we got the Nivea. So a lot of international global worker, you know, to be actually to be to be to be spread a lot longer all the markets all over the world. Okay, you know, I remember reading one of your interviews where you know, this was about 10 months ago, and you spoke about, you know, how work how the work that agencies are dishing out now is too safe. You know, with the pandemic here and everything, would you say is the time for agencies to experiment or go down the usual path and you know, just play safe. Yes. So again, you know, we've been focusing in the last I would say two or three years. We've been focusing so much into results, the business approach, the integrated approach that no one was looking anymore at the bravery of the work. And I have to say, you know, also, from a creative point of view, being a judge on some of the awards, the work was kind of safe. Yes, average. I think with with the COVID, the work became much more brand led, which is always a good thing. Obviously, because of the pandemic was an issue that everybody had at the same time, he made the work a little bit uniform. A little bit, you know, I can say consistent. I can say, which is obviously not so differentiating, brave, brave, but not so differentiating. That would be my my big my frame, my analysis of the last eight months, especially now, after like recovering the situation, you're not trying to communicate the urgency of doing something, you know, on trying to behave well, to socialize responsibly and so on. I think now brands have to differentiate themselves again, and to take even a more sharper positioning regarding themselves. I'll give you an example. So for example, you know, brand like Apple now, it's really about creativity is getting sharper and sharper. Nike is becoming more contextualized, you know, same with with Anakin, the work now that we're doing, it's much more topical, it's much more related to what's happening outside. And this normally helps to make the work better. Because it means that you have to be more relevant, you need to be more contextualized, you need to be, you know, on the now. Right. You know, but there's also the small debate, you know, where, you know, sales, of course, with the pandemic here, sales getting affected in a very big way for most brands. There is a small, small question of whether agencies should work hard to create memorable, goodwill led ads, or should they go one step further and provide real business solutions to the clients and you know, be a real partner? I think that they're again, there are one thing doesn't exclude the other one. One of the big issue with creativity that agencies in the past have been selling like the big idea, the big idea, which is like a media neutral. It's a problem because it's great on paper, but then when you apply on the different touch points, it becomes much flatter. So I think creativity has us to be like a Caesar. So you need to what is about the brand strategy and the brand work. So your brand positioning, what you stand for as a brand. So being very, very clear who you are, what you believe in and so on. And then and then work instead using data, you know, building consumer journey, touch point, applying then creativity, once you have defined the consumer journey, what when when you have defined what what you want to change in the consumer behavior, creativity doesn't stay in the middle. As I said, it's like a Caesar, or you go very on top on the on the brand level defining, you know, what you are as a brand, or you go really at the bottom trying to be relevant in consumers life. You know, I asked because you know, I was speaking to a lot of marketers of late and, you know, just like always, the big complaint was, you know, that agencies only want to create communication solutions, and you know, bring bring home those big awards and not really enable, you know, solutions for their sales issues. So you know, that that's a bit concerned, that's where I'm coming from. But it's the difference between strategic and tactical. Sometimes this kind of work, you know, to solve like sales problems, or it's very tactical, you solve it for the next six months. But then also you work in a way that you need to solve the problem, or, you know, what's the issue on the long terms. I think one of the problems, it's not one of the problems. What happened with the pandemic? We've been working much more tactical in short terms. Let's try to solve, let's try to solve the problems in the next three months, not in the next three years. Right, right. No, because for most brands, it's pretty much a question of survival. I mean, they might not really see three years if you don't work on their right now. At the same time, you need to have a plan that is long lasting. So even if you're losing money, if you're losing, you know, a market share or whatsoever, in the short term, so you need to plan long terms in any case. Otherwise, it's very difficult to survive. And especially now, in a moment of uncertainty, people want to connect and to link that to brands that give them a safe that they, you know, that they feel like, oh, this brand will stay. Right, right. We need, we need to, in this moment, we really need stability, you know. So that's why, you know, we're trying to get more stable relationship, you know, we're trying to get more stable life. And we need to have also more stable brands. Absolutely. You know, in the past, I think four or five months, what have been the most difficult decisions that you had to make? You know, recently, agencies like Droga Five said that, you know, they had to cut 7% of their staff in US. I bet public policy also must have had to let go a lot of a lot of talent, because of course, cutting measures must be very difficult for you from, from the perspective of a global head, because agencies at the end of the day thrive on talent, right? So what were the difficult decisions for you? Again, my role doesn't impact directly on on who to keep and who to let go. My role is, is more about to make sure that the good people are actually are stay, stay, stay well, and they're happy, and they don't get depressed. So it's also a way actually to influence their moral. So I wanted to make sure that, you know, for example, the internal award that we had was also to keep up with the moral, you know, not having awards for credits, obviously it's, it's, it's not a big issue in a situation like that because we have a bigger issue, but the same time is a, is a motivation to keep doing well, to keep coming to work in the morning or to spending like it hours in front of a computer or a Skype or Skype meeting. So I wouldn't say that I had the difficult, difficult choices to make up because I had to work like day by day to make sure that, you know, all the good people, all the people that are in the, in the key position, stayed happy. Okay, makes sense. You know, you spoke about the awards. What has been the most impactful work that came out of publicity worldwide during the pandemic? And which country is it from? It went like a several good, good, good, good, good pieces. I would say, obviously, that the Burger King modeling whopper has been very visible in terms of PR, you know, that the whopper, the burger that is went off. But if I can mention, I really, I really would like to mention the, actually, the Nivea work. Which one? I'm sorry, your voice. Nivea, Nivea is a new client that we got, we got the bio stuff. And during the pandemic, I really liked the work that has been developed on the care positioning. So, you know, in a moment where it was very easy to forget about actually taking care of ourselves and other people, a brand message, you know, from Nivea, the caring was really, really nice. And I really liked it. Then I would say, yes, the back to bars on Heineken was very interesting, because it was a business solution. It was not just a communication thing. So on Heineken, we decided, instead of communicating like a point of view or something like that, to take action and support bars, which are in a big crisis at the moment. I think that same ad can be applied even in the Indian market, because bars are slowly opening up here in Delhi as well. So I think it will just fit fine. And it's really weird and it's kind of funny, you know, to go because the thing, the thing, when you go to a bar, and especially you start having a beer, then you start relaxing. And then you don't think anymore about the rules that you have to respect, you know, washing your hands, keeping the distance. So it's really part of your, of your nature. When you go to a bar, it's a typical moment when you really relax. Right. You don't think about rules anymore, unfortunately. And this is like, you have to be on your guard all the time, even with two drinks down. Yes. Fantastic. You know, to tell me what has your advice been for to your CCOs across markets? You know, most, most of the markets are kind of slowly opening up, though the pandemic is not going anywhere so soon. What has been your advice? I have to say that in general, I can tell that not being being in the same room, so working face to face as being impacting also the work. I can tell that, you know, working from distance, I think doesn't help to go deeper in sharpening insights, understanding what's the real issue and so on. So I would say like going back to normal work, obviously it's necessary to do it step by step, but especially for creative people, being able actually to see face to face and to discuss, you know, to go a little bit deeper and to make the work a little bit less superficial is something that actually to me is really needed. The second thing is related also to the question that you made me before, you know, it's more important actually to get to impactful work in terms of numbers or so in terms of memorability. So I think we need to revise our idea of storytelling. Storytelling now is becoming so important. And especially because during this, this COVID time, we've been watching so many films, we've been reading more books, we've been watching more TV series. So we got in love again with storytelling. And I think part of our job is to revise also in advertising storytelling in an interesting way. Okay, so two key advice. Fantastic. You know, tell me, you know, in the beginning part of the band, I mean, just when it started, I think a lot of pictures were put on hold, but now they're pretty much back in action. So which are the big account wins that you would like to talk about global and from your India office? I mean, globally, I really, I'm really happy for a couple of media wins, and particularly the JSK one, which is our is a global slainter. And in Brazil, it was a big, big win. On a local level, we won a barilla, which is the pasta in Italy, which is also a very, very interesting brand as well. And they became much more relevant during the during the pandemic. Then there are other wins like Sephora and Heinz. There is a new one that is coming. But I cannot, I cannot tell you yet. I would be very pleased to actually announce it quite soon. And then, and then, as I told you, I'm very pleased to see the new worker coming from Nivea, which is a, you know, a win of last year. But, you know, seeing like a good worker coming from a new client is always nice. You know, I have to ask you this, you know, if you had to pick one Indian brand for which, for whom you would want to make an ad, which one would it be? This is a good question. I mean, I always been a big fan of Times of India. I know Agnès Lúdia, I know Sentil, because in my past career, I used to work for JWT. And I always loved the work that they've been doing. And it's one of the, I think one of the most awarded Indian brand in the world. So that's for sure. But regarding my agency, I have to say that I really, as I mentioned before, I really liked the work that has been done on ZTV. This approach, mentioning using media, this best use of media, you know, waiting actually for the day that actually all the support were actually went back to to make all the announcement really, really smart. I really love the work. Okay, I think we love that ad too, the Z ad. Yes. And one more thing, you know, most agencies worldwide have faced the brunt of the lockdown with reduced client spends. How soon do you see demands returning to your key markets? It depends on the category, you know, for example, I think fashion brands will get back very soon. For example, looking in China, you know, which was a big disaster at the beginning of the pandemic. Now numbers are back to normal. I think cars will be slower. So you know, the category, it will take a little bit longer to recover depends on, you know, category by category. In general, what I see is like in food in particular, a lot of keep changing. Because you know, during the pandemic, we've been using and we've been eating like certain food. Now other type of food. So it's really, it's really changing. And it's not that stable. So this is where I'm also keeping my eye on to see what what what will be the future for sure. What's interesting regarding food. All the trend related to glamorous food, you know, how the food look like, trying new things out is a little bit gone. And now we are really back to an emotional relationship with food, much more, let's say to the basic food. And so it's no more about the how food look, you know, how fancy it is. Yeah, exactly. But it's much more about our emotional relationship with food, with people sharing the same table, all these kind of things. That's a big change that happened during the COVID. You know, and in India, specifically, we have the festive season and the IPL coming up, which is good news. So what would your advice be to your CCOs, Vikash and Wasabjeet? So meet the work, especially to keep your creatives happy. Fantastic. Have you got a chance to meet them after they were elevated? Of course, I'm guessing not because it was very recent. Not yet. As I said, hopefully I will be I will be in India in February. Okay. And one last question. What is that one thing that will change forever for creative agencies across the world after the pandemic? So one thing for sure is the way we work together. So even going back to normal, we will never go back to like, say eight or 10 hours in the office. For that will be much more flexible. So we we learn that we can we can we can we can work from distance. Which doesn't mean that we have to stay this way all the time. But we can be much more flexible. It means that, for example, a lot of meetings will happen on Skype. You know, I used to spend most of my time actually traveling to have a physical meeting with clients. And, you know, in the last six months, I just been doing Skype meetings. And actually sometimes actually the meetings were sharper, faster, easier to take decisions. So that I think will not get back. That that that part will stay the way we're we're we're rebalanced with the human connection. To me, it's more about internal work. When you really want to get crafted when you really want to go a little bit deeper, you know, then obviously you you need to have physical meetings. Absolutely. So yes, here's hoping that, you know, when we look back at the pandemic, a few months, a few years later, we look at it as an opportunity and, you know, not an obstacle. So it was it was delightful talking to you, Mr. Batelli, and I hope the next time we speak, it's not a virtual meeting, though it's convenient, like you mentioned, but I really would like to meet you when you come down to India, maybe in February. Absolutely. And then also also in Canada, next year, like I said. Yes, absolutely. Thank you. Thank you so much for joining us. That's me saying thank you from the viewers also. It was a pleasure. I mean, again, it was really nice actually to talk to you. And I really hope to see you soon. Absolutely. Cheers. Bye bye.