 Hello everybody and welcome to my presentation on Duke universities code plus program and Just want to make sure that we're ready to start with the AV team We're good to go. Awesome. All right. Well, thank you for coming It's humbling after following the keynote discussion this morning So I hope that I'll be able to stay at that higher level I can't say that I had the pleasure of overseeing the as the project leads So I'm excited to tell you about what this program was able to bring about My name is Kyle screen act. I'm a screen act on Drupal.org. That's phonetic and I'm the senior manager of Duke web services development for Duke University and Our team builds maintains over 250 Drupal Sites including multi site headless and other websites and applications To give you a better sense the next video that I'm about to show you here the project leads They're the act the project administrators for code plus So I will let them tell you in their words what this program is Code plus is a 10-week co-curricular summer coding experience for Duke undergraduate students The program pairs teams of four to six students with it professionals that guide and mentor the teams to develop web or mobile applications Aimed at solving a challenge or issue at Duke or beyond One would think that 10 weeks is a short amount of time to build an app We have found that it is absolutely amazing what a team of talented Duke students can accomplish in one summer Now approaching our fifth season the program has been the incubator for several production level tools used at Duke The program began in 2018 with one team of six students that were challenged with producing wireframes For what a parking app would look like by the end of the 10 weeks the team not only delivered wireframes That developed a functioning proof of concept app that streamlined parking for Duke The app was beta tested the following year Although that specific app did not go into production Many of the features and functions as well as much of the code were leveraged for the my parking app That went into production in 2021 Another standout project is duke notify in 2020 We took the program online due to cobit the student teams spread across north america from north carolina New jersey to california and vancouver canada Developed a tool that allows faculty staff and students to select their preferred notification method for several duke applications This project was especially timely and was used to send notifications for our in-house cobit symptom monitoring app Duke notify sends notifications reminding faculty staff and students to complete their symptom monitoring to gain access to buildings and resources Our most impactful code plus project has been feed every devil in the summer of 2020 A team was charged with developing application to address food insecurity at duke Students met with stakeholders across campus Which included students organizations and administrators to get an understanding of the landscape Part of the discovery process was learning about the existing applications Available researching what other colleges and universities were doing and seeing what products were on the market What emerged was a beautiful functioning proof of concept application The app allows students to donate food points and to request food points if they are food insecure an administrative back end managed by staff and student affairs And integrated with our student card system Distributes donated points to students who express the need After the summer ended one particularly dedicated student continued work on the project and together with our it resources and stakeholders from student affairs They launched the production tool in the fall of 2021 Code plus is a unique summer experience Unlike a traditional industry internship where a student joins an operational unit or a project already underway Our students have a hand in every aspect of the development process From requirements gathering to design to coding to proof of concept or minimum viable product Along the way they interface with stakeholders from duke departments who have a stake in the project success Further they are often engaged with resources from external corporate partners project sponsors who lend expertise in their industry and products Given their code plus experience these students are positioned to secure coveted industry internships the following summer So who are code plus students? Well, the program is committed to increasing equity inclusion and diversity in the technology talent pipeline We're interested in attracting students from underrepresented communities including first generation college students When we review applications we look for students whose resumes reflect initiative But who may not have had opportunities for project or work experience involving coding or software development We look at unofficial transcripts to get a sense of the courses they've taken and of course their course grades Last we read their cover letters to get a sense of who they are and what motivates them to apply Often they tell us what they can bring to code plus However, we're more interested in hearing what they hope to gain by the experience We don't expect them to bring anything but an eagerness to participate and learn The program follows a framework that begins with the students attending basic technical training in git and linux Plus python html css and javascript Depending on the project additional training may be required. We leave that up to the it professionals leading the project We also line up less technical training sprinkled throughout the summer presentation skills requirements gathering uiux design tips and designing for accessibility This year we plan to add training in project and product management presented by guest speakers The presentation skills training students receive really pays off It is so gratifying to see them become more comfortable with this skill As they practice and present to the cohort stakeholders and project sponsors throughout the summer Working as a productive member of a project team is also something we emphasize Since this skill will be essential to their success in the professional world On the last day of the program we hold an event to showcase each team's final product The last couple of years this was held on zoom and the videos were published to youtube This summer we plan to be back in person and hold a poster session together with our partner programs data plus ncs plus So that was a lot of information there and that was uh actually a condensed presentation of the effort duke put into Putting the code plus project together as as the video points out Just a few points of Detail here. I would love to have the students be here present. It's exam week so We're going to respect the The conflict and as a project lead school always took precedence Even even off semester And another thing I would point out that I don't have in my slide deck is the fact that duke has elevated this code plus initiative so that Jen visas is who you saw what reports to our duke's Cio So duke has elevated the the program to an even higher level So how did I get involved in all this? We had a reorg at duke when um covet hit and we were scrambling to make sense of how we were going to function in the The new reality that we were in Our group which has historically supported the trinity college of arts and sciences Which are the undergrad schools at duke. We were merged in a central o.i.t So I was now um Where that where this project had been going on for several years I didn't hear of it because I wasn't in the same channel of communication as duke. I you tend to think The entire college speaks with one voice, but do respecting academic freedom There's a whole bunch of channels of different voices. So now I knew this was a project going on Uh, oi.t office of information technology had a call for the projects and I thought that sounds interesting Uh, so I wanted to find out more the whole idea of having um There seemed to be a lot of opportunities to come together and scratch a whole lot of inches Back and forth. So uh helping drupal open source duke. I understood the premise. I knew that the duke The drupal community would be responsive and we'll get to that, but they were fantastic We also had duke had developed a module back in 2017 which is called a basic ship And it was a drupal 8 Uh contributed excuse me Contributed module and it had been it needed some attention And it would see it struck me as an opportunity So I knew that we had this module that needed some attention and we had the code plus team And we also had um, there's something in academia I suspect elsewhere an identity management platform called Grouper so it allows for a variety of ways that you could group membership And the idea of integrating grouper with basic ship seemed like a natural fit So that would allow us for example to have the content editors for the economics website The business manager who doesn't know drupal from From dorna Wouldn't wouldn't matter. Um, he or she would be able to use the grouper Which most business managers at duke are familiar with and set up the content editors into the appropriate group So Hearing about this I drafted my proposal I thought it was going to be a ship or what do you call it note in a bottle and I was surprised he got traction Uh gen and isabel and myself worked back and forth Uh interestingly they tend to work more as you may have gotten from the video with more applications more so than with uh website So there was a interesting refining process going on to make clear what this project could be They had accepted my proposal And voila this was the start of What the uh code plus project would be for summer 2021 and essentially it's just describing what I've said so far uh Taking um using drupal as the opportunity to expose rising sophomores to code at that point After that there were 10 teams in 2021 And each team had a project lead or more I had assist from someone who had done work in previous years for example Some teams had two people depending on the complexity And the moving parts of it. We would um We were selected we had as I had said we refined the the proposal We had a code plus information fair. This is where the students who are interested Would come and see what the different Opportunities were and what they may or may not be interested in an interesting story I'm going to get to shortly on that The students would then apply for their top three projects based on what they liked or didn't like and just Briefly it was zoom 2021 So we had breakout rooms and I could see the different levels of activity Which was interesting. So you we project leads could get a sense of Whether our ideas were taking flight or not Uh, so after we get the feedback from the students on their top three the code plus administrators Assigned the students to the various teams Then the leads would get the student information. So it's almost like we're starting a You know classic project start and then we set about training and schedule You may recall from the video that there was the training. We had the centralized training Um, and I had to use what training was available to get the students started and of course being Drupal being Far more niche than the python or ruby apps that were being considered There were so we'll we'll get into that in just a minute So I got my five, uh students assigned to the project I had to set up the project So we decided to use land. Oh, which is across platform Uh php development, uh docker eye solution We had to uh agree to how we were going to talk as a team Again, this was uh managing in covet which made this interesting Uh, one of the ways I like to run my teams is that we have a daily check-in And we used the microsoft teams in zoom a lot of the students Had their favorites and I wanted to make the my code plus project an opportunity to bring students into what's what's a What's a safe way to expose a student to a commercial workflow that's Not going to overwhelm them. So I wanted them to understand there's going to be Give and take on what we can or can't do we could have to we could discuss anything But ultimately we were going to go with the software that duke already has licensed for we were licensed for team in zoom And uh, we also I had encouraged daily check-ins with um regularly Saying hello in the morning Getting the students keep in mind now. So the students the they didn't really know each other They were assigned there may have been one or two friends going into it, but they were by and large it was uh Um, they were coming at it from without knowing who each other was so we had to get uh team cohesion happening Uh, so to that end I had weekly uh individual one-on-ones and we also held daily team scrums That uh, we had regular updates. So let's just briefly talk about the stakeholders Uh, the stakeholders were external to the project, but they understood what we were doing so they were They had the expertise to say whether this was the right or wrong approach for what was needed for the project and uh, I had the pleasure of working with uh Eric Sembrat from Georgia Georgia tech And some others that were wonderful in helping with the students and guidance Um, and we also used this uh platform so that the students could be exposed to project management principles and tools I focused on we had a get lab or have a get lab c e instance at Duke, which was sufficient for our needs So the project schedule The first one to two weeks was the core training for everybody I added a third week for a symphony and Drupal training The first three weeks were interesting. So I did so I wanted to talk about the students that I was assigned And Given the uh The visits in the zoom rooms, I could tell that this was not a particularly A popular idea and a lot of the students were like, what's Drupal again? What what what do you Drupal? What is that? So I had to talk about it invariably. I said, uh, well, it's like wordpress. Oh, okay And um, and how we would use this content management platform for what we're doing So with weeks one and two, I wanted to expose them to an object-oriented way of thinking I think I thought python was a good way to do that Uh, and we were able to use that as a basis from which they extended into symphonies object-oriented model Uh weeks four to six were more typical of software discovery requirements And we also prepped for the first stakeholders meeting And a lot of that was the students Would talk directly with the stakeholder and get the feedback and help to establish the rapport So that the students knew what they would be Expected for by way of deliverables Week seven through nine, that's what you would traditionally associate with uh software development, which was the actual coding I would do want to emphasize these students had not One student had coded the other four. This was new and it was it was Astounding to see how they were able to go from zero and by week seven and eight They were actually Comfortable with working within the symphony slash Drupal paradigm for code and I want to emphasize I'm a manager. So I don't know how to do this stuff I was heavily reliant on the community and getting the feedback and there were again I was getting um wonderful tips from From the community in general to make sure that we were on and I had regular I'll get to this in a minute but we had regular visits from People programmers in the community that helped the students directly Finally week 10. This was the ultimate deliverable. They Have a presentation that they delivered to their whole entire cohort And it would also include the corporate sponsors project leads and their fellow code plus members Within the cohort and what was interesting is by the end of this 10 weeks Even across all of the different teams doing very different programs. You could see the students had There was something unique going on in how they not only bonded within their teams But bonded across teams and they were eyeing each other Thinking how interesting what they were doing is so it's neat. It was neat to see this progress of development Some of the challenges while I've already alluded to the fact that Drupal was what's a Drupal So we had to spend a little time on getting them Why why Drupal was a good Platform for what we do with this I would love for you to think the students walked away on fire for Drupal They liked the object oriented aspects of symphony and so a few of them are continuing on Whether we have some Drupal long-term cutters remains to be seen But that's fine because the purpose of this wasn't to make the the endpoint wasn't for Drupal It was to expose students who may not ordinarily have this exposure to code development We also had to take Rising sophomores who had never collaborated in this fashion And a lot of the first the first three to four weeks There was a lot of during the headlight looks as we were talking about How do you interact and I was encouraging in our one-on-ones to reach out to different people and find out what your different strengths and comfort levels were And there was by the by the sixth the seventh week Both Isabella and Jen had remarked how The turnaround in the students comfort with that which of course is essential for a team How that had turned around in that time At the start of the project there was uneven engagement. I don't blame the students they I might have been the second or third pick so we just worked with that and The nature of the program was Come in when you're ready I encouraged each of the members to Reach out to each other and they did it was wonderful to see how they Were able to Reach out once they understood where people were afraid or not. So it's not unusual It was not unusual at the beginning of the project that the students just simply just tell me what to do And that's not the purpose of the project is not to be told what to do the purpose is to expose you to a workflow with the diversity of talents and and Different ways of looking at a problem and how can you come together make something better from the five of you? They understood that by about the halfway halfway through that started to Kick in and In doing so they were by by that point in time too. They were all in You could tell the enthusiasm based on how we were collaborating in the You know some the commits on the co-changes uh went from from a Just a little bit to a deluge a downpour by the end of it and it was exciting to see How the effort ramped up? I mentioned I had helped from the Drupal community and mark isaacson was mesmerizing He volunteered a couple hours and That was a lot he um When I say a couple hours that I don't think that really gives full credit to how he was able to Encapsulate he gave top level training And I think he was feeding off the enthusiasm. He was getting from the students. It was good to see that now precious mccoy She was she kind of came at this for more of a business angle And she was telling talking to the students what it means to run your business and how do you Brand yourself and more of a How to conduct yourself in a business environment Jay beaton is a developer that our team regularly engages with he was Both j. Ian is an internal. He was the original author of the basic ship and I mentioned to eric sembrat Yeah, so they they all gave What they gave to the program was Fundamental to getting the project to come together And we also engaged the slack channel which does great When the when the students were putting questions there that was like, yeah Uh, it was like putting meat in the piranha tank. That's probably not a good metaphor But it would just bubbled up with with with enthusiasm in response to the questions and it was the students Like that So of course right, you know, we all like getting likes, but imagine when it's actual productive information Now what I'd like to turn our attention to is When I mentioned the week 10 in the schedule This is the actual presentation of the students gave to the entire cohort including the the stakeholders and the sponsors and so forth So let me start this Thank you. Kyle Let me share my screen You all see this. All right. Good afternoon, everyone We are the Drupal module team and over the past 10 weeks We've been working on extending the functionality of this open source Drupal module called basic shabla authentication Um to kind of improve the management of user roles and then um website content editing access in Drupal websites Um, and we're very excited today to share with all of you what we've done in our journey So in this presentation We'll be going over kind of the context to our problems with Drupal is what Ship lift authentication is and then leading into that some of the problems that our stakeholders were having with these existing technologies And then we'll address um like what our proposed solution is And then we'll give a demo of our final product And then in the roadmap section, we will give a reflection of our code plus experience and journey And finally we'll be taking any questions at the end Sorry my laptop is malfunction um Sorry about that All right, so this is our team. Um, we're all rising sophomores studying computer science And we're led by kyle screenak our talented and fearless mentor during these 10 weeks All right, so what is Drupal? Drupal is a content management platform similar to wordpress and other website builders Individuals firms and agencies all turn to Drupal for a seamless website creation and management experience So for better reference think about the hundreds of sites Owned by duke for let's say the math department In the day to day content managers such as professors or heads of the department Will use Drupal to add remove or update content from those sites They don't really need to have you know this deep understanding of back-end website development to do so They use Drupal's easy to navigate interface to manage their websites So people use Drupal not just because of its accessibility and ui But also because of its scalability Some of the busiest sites in the world run run on Drupal because of its ability to handle high traffic and accommodate content growth Interestingly Drupal is also open source. So it's built off of around 47,000 modules that web admins can add or remove to their sites depending on what functionality they're looking for For example, you might need your site to allow visitors to enter information into a web form So in this case, you will install a web form module to your site These modules are developed by the open source community. So this is a community which is made up of about 120,000 active contributors With this project we've become part of that massive community of developers of Drupal modules One of the many modules available in Drupal is the basic shape module The shibboleth authentication module is something we're all very familiar with because we use it to log into duke websites every day Shibboleth is a form of security and make sure you're a part of duke before it lets you have access to the complete website However, the current basic shape module does not cover the full scope of web admins After talking to our stakeholders, we were able to identify three common problems with the current basic shape modules The first one is compatibility Since many are still in the process of migrating sites from Drupal 8 to Drupal 9 We wanted to make sure that our module is compatible with both versions of Drupal The second problem is a lack of customization We want our module to allow the administrator to customize roles and access rights The off-the-shelf version made it difficult for web administrators to quickly update and edit web and edit website permissions for high volumes of users The third problem is scalability Since the current shib module that duke uses is hard-coded It is specific and not general enough for other universities to use So the best practice to address these issues within a Drupal module is to create a plugin and in order to Make sure that users could integrate basic shib and customized website management We decided to extend the basic shib module by implementing a grouper plugin grouper helps simplify management and collaboration by giving everyone in a group the same access privileges So for example, if the new developer is hired to work on Pratt websites They can be added to the Pratt website manager group via grouper and automatically have the same permissions as the rest of the team And if someone leaves the team they can be removed from the group and will no longer be able to work or access those sites So in summary our solution takes the basic shib module and makes it more scalable Compatible with Drupal 8 and Drupal 9 and adds on grouper functionality In action, this would look like a user requesting login through shib as shown in the diagram Then once the user is authenticated the grouper plugin would talk to the basic shib module to seamlessly filter out Certain information about the user that is received from shib authentication The web admin that assigns each user a role with specific editing permissions based on specific user characteristics So this module would enable duke and others to more easily access secure content for websites And now let's see all of that in action through a demo So before we get started with the demo, let's set up some groundwork for our scenarios So first recall that our module is designed to enhance the management of user roles And content editing access in Drupal sites And then also recall that the grouper software allows an admin To put people into certain groups based on specific characteristics So that we can grant users sharing certain attributes the same level of access through our plugin For our demo, let's say that I as a web admin decided that I wanted the content editor group I can go into duke's group manager as seen on the pictures here and put users into this group Here we put Tomas and Jason into our content editor group here And then grouper will have the ability to communicate across platforms by referencing the grouper path id To release user information this right here below the content editor that is the path id And yeah, so now we'll show a demo of our site implement grouper functionalities within basic ship This is the website we're using to test our module and all of you hear the sound Yeah, okay This is the website we're using to test our module As web admins, we might want to manage who has access to editing this website And we can do that through our newly developed basic ship module The first step is to log in using the familiar ship lift authentication Which is part of the original functionality of the basic ship module that the team built on Once we're in we can see the web administrator panel on top and if we go to the configuration page Since we already have the basic ship module enabled We will be able to see the basic ship settings button As a web administrator, I am trying to assign certain people to have certain content management roles for this website Rather than manually doing that for each user one by one I want to assign a role such as content editor to a particular set of users What the grouper software does is that it bundles such sets of users Here we can scroll down to the plugin enabled section to enable or disable grouper functionality in our module Since I'm trying to manage content access for my site, I will enable the grouper plugin Now we can save the configuration changer just made And then scroll down again and go into the grouper settings Form that became enabled after we enabled the grouper plugin On this page, we can choose to give certain grouper groups specific user roles And grant them specific site editing privileges These roles are dynamically updating based on the settings I as a web administrator have established on that site For example, if I wanted to add a role called developer that allows a user to have permission to access some development features I can go up to the people tab And I can go to roles and add a role So let's go ahead and make a role called developer Now if we scroll up to permissions I can specify that I want users with the development role to have access to certain develop permissions So you'll see the permissions that the developer has on the right And we'll go ahead and check the permissions under develop And we can save that configuration Now if we go back to the grouper settings page under config basic ship settings and the grouper form You can see that this role is now an option for me to assign a group to If you recall from earlier in our presentation, we have a group called content editor that has two users Jason and Tim Ross I want to make sure that every user in this group has the permissions of an editor from my truple site In order to do this, I must paste in the grouper id path into the corresponding role in this case this editor So I'll save that configuration And to see the magic happen, we can look at the user information for our site under people Part of the specifications from our stakeholders was that a new role lasts just for the duration of the session To ensure that role permissions don't linger after a user is removed from a group At this point Jason and Tim Ross the two users in the group that we're working with haven't logged in So their roles are the same However, once they do log in We'll be able to refresh the page and see that their roles have updated to the editor So let's refresh the page And we'll see that they are now both editors and will have all the editor access and permissions So we'll also be able to go back to the grouper settings form and either Remove groups from that role or change the groups that they have aligned with certain roles So let's say that we wanted Jason and Tim Ross that were both of this content editor group To now have the permissions of the developer role that we just finished making We can simply move the pathway down to developer And save the configuration Now at this point if we go to people they should still only have the editor permissions since we haven't removed that from them But if they were to log out and log back in again Once we refresh the page we'll see that they will no longer have editor permissions and will only have developer permissions So let's refresh the page and we should see those permissions update And now they're both only developers So that is the demo and Next we'll be talking about the exciting part how we actually Contributed this back to the open source triple community so Yeah, so um if we go to the basic ship um module page on the triple website um you'll see that Just yesterday Kyle was able to push up our changes to the open source community So you'll see these two versions which is the updates that we made to the module with the plugin Along with some descriptions a list of the contributors and our stakeholders for all their support um And you can also see all the releases if you click on the view all releases tab on the triple site You can see how it started off in 2018 with the original basic ship module and since then we've added on to it with the Updating the versioning and then our most recent plugin which we were just able to put in yesterday So that was really exciting for us um, so Kind of as an overview where we've been throughout the past 10 weeks We spent a lot of the first part of our project with a lot of training and setup We were focused on setting up our environments and learning about the priorities of our stakeholders researching existing modules And all of that led us to the solution that we've been talking about for the past 10 minutes And after wrapping up the development phase of Implementing our group of plugin and making sure that all our code was consistent with these standards for the triple community We were able to contribute it back up to triple and our next steps are just to refine that module and conduct some more thorough testing And before we open the port of questions, we just want to Take a minute to thank code plus our stakeholders Isabelle and Jen and our team lead Kyle Coming into the project all of us were completely unfamiliar with triple and with php and symphony Um, but with our support system, we were able to develop a project from a pretty abstract idea of just extending a Drupal module to having a solid deliverable that Solved an actual problem And learning that entire web development framework while coming up with a viable solution to the stakeholders needs was Very daunting in the first few weeks. Um, but Kyle was so instrumental in providing us with resources and people and workshops that we could use to ask Industry professionals any questions that we had this resulted in us being able to learn so much about project workflow And collaborating with individuals across different campuses and disciplines and developing solid communication and presentation skills We've all had a really great experience in code plus and are so thankful for the opportunity We've had and the people that we've been able to meet throughout this summer Now we'll take any questions. So, um, I have something to share from ed gomes But he had to leave and sent me a chat. So I'm now looking for my chat window So he says I'm one of the sponsors of this group, but I have to jump on another call Please pass along my thanks for this effort. The group did a fantastic amount of work in a very brief period of time Their work with duke folks and developers within the Drupal community was outstanding And they resolved some complicated integration issues that will have very broad implications for our sites and others with similar needs I also want to give my thanks to kyle. He did a fantastic job coordinating this team So thank you. I hope you guys are really proud of yourselves I noticed in the screen that was shown a moment ago where you guys had submitted The the module that it said 101 sites Are using the module? Yeah, basic ship is used in a lot of um duke sites and I'm sure across a lot of other higher ed website as well Yeah, it's really exciting for us. Yeah, it's already it's already implemented. It's already making a difference So I can't help but smile one of the things working so That was amazing what that what happened in 10 weeks Five students 10 weeks from zero to contributed code It was it it was yeah I'm sorry I get excited just thinking but it was awesome every time I finished a session with that with the team I would just walk away. Say that those kids are awesome and they are So it was exhilarating as you could tell by my tingly confession at the moment It was a lot of work too It's about 20 plus hours a week and I am fully engaged in other things. So Not trivial, but uh, you've probably heard this from other people when you give you get so much more And because of my effort on this project I I Brought on a whole new skill set. I was not expecting to take on And um, I got great feedback as you heard now It sounds like I'm just doing this to pat my back in front of y'all. I apologize That's a purpose of this Purpose is the what those five students were able to do And how the you know again how the open source community in Drupal were able to have a positive exposure to uh Something that's something like a commercial workflow Um Let's see here So I would strongly recommend if you if where you work has gives you that opportunity To do something in this fashion. I also have been on the tech expo It's a cross duke when I say cross duke campus. We've got a health system We have research entities. We have the university And uh, it's a very large. I think we're I think duke employs 80 000 of which 2500 are IT people and I've been volunteering on that up until this just this past year I had stepped down from tech expo These are great ways again, you know Drupal thrives because of the community and these are just ways that you can help give back and I'm doing a project this year uh 2022 and it's going to be related to food distribution and Serving communities in the Durham area of need and it's also with the idea of food as medicine So how can the food help? The recipients and how do we measure this benefit? So we're looking at now. It's it may be like a big data aspect of machine learning Looking at patterns There may be opportunities to do um supply chain for the food and the distribution And that's starting up in that one has been the most active the a lot of the The duke student community loves the idea of giving back. I've been involved in volunteering with the food distribution The past year and it's bubbling with students every saturday morning So it's wonderful to see that kind of giving back to the community this These are references if you want to dig a little deeper on what we've talked about here Um And let's see here. I've got three minutes for questions Sean So there were 10 and the groups so there were 10 groups total and the size would be five to seven So, you know 50 60 Yeah, yeah It was a co-curricular program There was a they weren't paid but they did receive a Something There's official word for it. That's legal and now i'm in trouble because I can't think of it But they weren't paid per se. It wasn't employment But but they were competent What's that? Course credit. I don't Yeah, no, I don't I could be wrong. I don't know that's a good question Um, you know, would that be a great way to engage students? Yeah, possibly so I'm sure there are other ways to do so, but yeah, I don't Know about so I'm wondering if you get course credit Then there would have been some some manner of my giving a signing a grade and I didn't do that Okay Oh, oh great question. So the premise was a 40 hour work week so right so I Didn't get into it, but we were cross time zones. We had one student who is pacific time Say that's where we are now and then we had the rest east coast So we used that to our advantage And there was better coverage because of that And yeah, they were 40 and and I didn't They and we also used this as an opportunity to coordinate You know life happens. They have to tend to family matters One of the students was near without miami um High-rise the collapsed so you know, yeah, of course, but I wanted to expose the students. This is When you work for a management that respects you You should know what that feels like and and again, it sounds like I'm Padding my back, but I wanted them to have like this is what you should shoot for in a career That kind of respectful management Yes So the engagement on Yes, yes No, well again, right Well, so Well, the first thing I want to tangent off of that is the fact that We accessibility was actually an important aspect to what we train the students on as you could see There's not a lot of accessibility opportunity within the admin theme that we were using But the students got to get a sense of what it means to have different devices And this was new concepts to them the the problem became more Uh compelling to them once they knew how the back-end systems worked And I had to understand I No group or far better now than I did prior to the project I didn't give them credit, but the our grouper lead Spent time walking the students what this has been because when you saw that row of where you put the grouper The grouper path is just a um An identifier for the specific groups that's been created That's just yeah, that that was How do you make sense out of that? So as they got engaged so in other words their their itch increased as they got deeper into the into the problem domain And then they started to feed off each other's. Oh, is that how you do it in symphony? Oh, is this how we pass the Whatever from the from the author the authorization php file to the other the tokenized something So that they just kind of got drawn in like the more they were It's almost like a classic work The more you do your job Like the more you get into the problem and then you forget about time And then we had to manage time after you know by the by the end of the project So I do want to point out though that That they had delivered the shib plug-in But now I have someone on the team who's actually taken their work and Making it so it wasn't I wasn't I didn't like too much. They had that enable There was like the click through that wasn't really a good user experience That I'm not being critical. They did killer work in 10 weeks But yeah, we've been able to take the work they started and when we one of the students mentioned about best practices I expose them to the php Coat sniffer tool so that they can run through and then they could see what they wrote and what this Static linting tool told them so they got a sense of back and forth With refining their code. So yeah, it it did keep engaging them and it's interesting too because php is Long in the tooth So and I know that they like to python not not don't want to offend any php is awesome. It's My bread and butter, but yeah, you know python has has a lot of the attractiveness at the moment Thank you