 How are you? Oh, good, good, good. I think, I think the meeting is not happening. This is what I'm understanding from. From Matt Nelson, they were mentioning. Oh no, actually it's you. Matt. I. I know there's a meeting tomorrow. To just sort of kick off some of the. Yeah. The refaction work. Exactly. Exactly. I think like he was mentioned. I mean, I think someone mentioned that was actually with the first of July in the States. The schedule moved it. And it didn't move to our schedule. From our consensus calendar. So I guess we can just, we can just keep and go check out the. The, the hyper ledger. Discord. I think they were postponing. Yeah. That's why, that's why like, I didn't know what was happening. So you think they're postponing today's one or. I think, no, I think, yeah, exactly. No, so today is not happening. Apparently like with the first of July, they moved everything like on two days. So we just, we check out with, with Matt. Oh, there you are. Second match in the house. Invite screwed up. I don't know. I think this is the wrong week because of the fourth of July. Yeah. So we will. And on the calendar that I see it's basically to be pushed a week later. You go to the basic calendar itself, but they're kind of screwed up because I need to fix it. I was told by hyper ledger to just fix it. So I might just fix it. But what's the, what's the fix the fixie will be postponing to next week. Or to get the base one and anticipating that. Yeah. And then we have the, they have the back to back a pack meeting. We also have the modularity consensus kickoff tomorrow. Like the modularity. So I don't really need, I don't think we need the meeting today. Matt, do that briefly about like prepping, like what we are doing for tomorrow's meeting. Yeah, yeah. That's fine with me. Yeah. And I think I'm going to move this one a week earlier. It's next. Tuesday. And we want to also move the, the consensus calendar one also earlier than. Yeah. I'll move our internal meeting as well. Perfect. Awesome. You guys prep the meeting for tomorrow, right? Yes. Yeah. So I think you're good to drop off. Francesco. I know you're. Sounds good. Easy. All right. We'll see you then. Yeah. Awesome. Bye bye. Thanks. All right. Let's see. So I'm sorry again about the confusion, Michelle with this meeting today. The base who. Hyper ledger calendar updated, but I don't think it updated everyone's individual counters. We've moved this meeting for the fourth of July. I don't think it pushed the one. So I've moved this specific contributor call to next week. Okay. So I think it's time to discuss what we're going to be doing in the modularity kickoff tomorrow. Maybe not the full hour, but like 10, 20 minutes, something like that. Okay. Yeah. Gary. So, so first of all, I said, I shared two links. In the. Basic modularity channel. They're one. Two. I've seen these two links. There's this modular base who one. And then the kind of implementation planning approach. Yeah, so I had a look at these, although I feel like maybe the first one, there's a bit more in it now than when I first looked. Yeah, we did these. Well, I updated this yesterday, I guess, but I've, we updated these at the beginning or at the end of last week a little bit. Okay. Yeah, so it might be, might be good for me to have a, have a reread of them. Yeah, so I mean, look, what I think we should use the first meeting tomorrow for is to agree upon some design goals and approaches. Like our goal is not to go into the meeting tomorrow and like fully design a solution that'll be working for everything. What I think is going to be happening is that we're going to try to get on the same page around language and around basically just software engineering best practices. And then go forward on the like first slice that we have, which we're toying with a few different kind of domain areas that we would be looking at, like transaction management. And like, again, not starting with this because consensus might be the toughest topic to decouple and to make modules. So we're, we're again, you can read these pages, but it's basically our goals are to come in with specific approach on one or more and go through what that will look like. I think Justin Florentine on our team will be bringing basically some diagrams about like, how would we do the transaction management and validation stack in terms of this kind of vertical slice approach. So yeah, it's intended to be a very much so kind of like a design session and to align ourselves on process, not necessarily to come like with a hard and fast rule on what we're going to do in our approach. Gary, do you have anything to add on this, on this point? No, I think you covered it pretty well. All right, we have more people joining, unfortunately. Hello folks. I'm really excited. It's quite upsetting that the calendar got all screwed up today. But anyway, we're just discussing the kickoff for the modularity meeting that we'll be having tomorrow. All are welcome to join. We are discussing modular basu. There's details on the wiki page. The hyperledger basu wiki that has all the context. I think. If Matt and Nishal, you guys agree on these goals or anything like that. And there's also some discussion in the discord and the basu modularity channel that we are kind of just good to proceed. Yeah. Cool. You might want to reiterate first, you asked that the contributor call was moved. It's been pushed one week and it's just a calendar. It's not food. Yeah, sorry. The basu calendar did not reflect the movement of this. Your call to next week. And then following every following week after that. So apologies on that one. The actual on me a call will be. Next week, a week from today at the same time. But we have the modular base who kickoff from the working group tomorrow at this time as well. Yeah, so I guess, I guess Matt is maybe one thing from my point of view, I guess is that there are, you know, there's still, there's still quite a few areas of basu. I've not sort of touched and had a look at in detail. So, you know, I, I guess I'm just keen to be able to come to you wherever I can in this, in this area. So I might. So I guess that's just a heads up that I'm going to ask some stupid questions as we're going through some of this. No, you're good. We feel like, I feel like we always have a tendency to over design and over get into the implementation details up front, at least on the. So big questions and like high level opinions of best practices are kind of exactly what we're looking for. Like I mentioned, we, I think that consensus we will take on the first kind of pieces just so we can start the ball rolling, get some lessons learned kind of quickly and iterate. Yeah. So any questions that you have that are like, you know, very straightforward that can only help steer the discussion, frankly. Cool. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, I just, I want to make sure that yeah, I'm on the right side of being a useful contributor to this rather than slowing stuff down. And I guess also if, if there's, if there's stuff outside, I guess, of the main line of sort of development, you know, while, while some stuff is kicking off sort of in earnest to begin with, that's, that's useful to send, you know, to someone like me, that almost like, I guess almost like a, a learning exercise kind of thing while some of the main stuff is kicking off. If there's anything that, that sort of leaps out in that, in that space, then I, I guess feel free to sort of consider throwing stuff my way while, while some of the main line stuff proceeding. You know, I definitely tend to find getting your head into a problem helps you learn that area of the code better than just staring at it. Got you. I'll have, I'll make sure that we're sharing more information on our approach in basic modularity, the channel. I think there's a little bit of discussion around how we're going to accomplish this from a technical perspective. So if you're familiar with dependency injection tools and stuff like that, like dagger, like we love your opinion on just trying to work out the context there. Yeah. Okay. So I will share some more material, any new material that I think of will go into that channel. Sure. Yeah. And I think, you know, there are only so many, so often you can run, run calls, right? So, so often working on a channel is a pretty effective way forward if you, if you put enough in there. Yeah, so we'll be working on that. Sorry, go ahead. No, I just going through the channel because I didn't look through it. So yeah, I will also go through that channel. Yeah, there's some technical discussion that I think again is getting a little into the weeds before we've gotten into the actual discussion of the goals and stuff. So, you know, takes whatever's in there with a grain of salt, those are just some approaches that the other maintainers are kicking around. But I'll have the team share as much general information as we can to prep everyone for the call tomorrow. With the outcome of tomorrow's call, hopefully being a direction on the first couple of modules, deciding what they are. We're going to use kind of the rule of threes of abstraction. So if you don't need more than one or two, or more than one or two use cases per like module, for example, and it's not really worth abstracting or modularizing. So we're going to be picking the kind of visual representation of the domains in that area. Again, a lot of that stuff is on the implementation approach page where it lays out all of the business logic kind of areas and domains within basu. And then the the the diagrams that I've shared the Miro diagram that's in there as well has got some more visual representation of what that looks like. So I think that of what's most of interest here is the application approach. So one of the goals of the modularity work is better distributions. So Matt, this is what we are talking about as far as like choosing enterprise release, public release, public mainnet release, private network release, EVM release, roll up release, et cetera, et cetera. So our three goals are basically that resolution of tech debt and distribution and better client modification. So we're not necessarily sold on if the client modification stuff is best to serve by plugins or full modularity, i.e. if I need to customize module instead of using the plugin API, I rip and replace or alter the module and put it back in. Right. So we, you know, again, I think that where since you guys might not feel as comfortable as these other folks in the code base, you definitely have software engineering experience of bringing more around like approach and best practices will help ground the discussion a lot. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That sounds, that sounds great. Yeah. Yeah. Sweet. Any other stuff like we have, I have time now we're on the phone already. If there's anything else we want to chat about, I think again, sorry about the screw up with the calendar, we'll resume this contributor call next week, which will be good because we can do a little discussion about the modularity thing and all this other stuff. But if there's anything else we want to chat about today, I get one question. I know this is still a modularity, but I guess one thing that there's not a lot of mention of in the, at least in the first wiki page, I don't think the segment either is where it's relative to the current plugin module. I don't know if that's, that's because it's sort of a given that it's in some respects where it's relevant. It's going to follow the current plugin architecture pretty closely, or if that hasn't, you know, if that's not a done deal, where do you see it versus the existing plugin API? Yeah. So that's what we have to figure out a little bit, right? I don't think the plugin API, we had some discussion about this the other day internally and consensus aside. I don't know if our goal is to expand the plugin API to be so unwieldy that it like is not a useful abstraction anymore, because it's just like everything gets shoved in there. So I think that that falls under the third goal of like client modification. Yeah. The way I laid it out in my head was the plugin API is a much simpler entry point than modifying basic modules, let's say, to modifying the client. So if our goals are around basically ease of use and developer experience and modular and continuing down the route of the plugin API is probably valuable. If our goals are around maximum customizability, reuse of components and like basically basic can go anywhere and do anything. But there's a lot more like hard work to make that happen. Then I think that that lends itself more to the full modularity approach where we are cleanly interfacing all of the components and you can swap them in and out at will. So this is what we discussed, right? Like what are the goals of you all as well? I don't think that that's why on my side as a product manager for this either way I can see my team spending effort and having it be valuable. But I want to find out your guys' goals too. From a modification standpoint, I have a feeling it's better to have a plugin API that's easy to work with and exposes X number of things versus having to wholesale modify like full modules in the code base kind of on the fly is a little tougher, right? So that's what we're looking to figure out. I think the approaches that we end up taking, I was initially sold on the plugin first kind of approach. I'm sort of back walking out a little bit after we've kind of dug into the technical details. I will let the engineers speak a little bit more about it tomorrow. I think that's a great question that we should talk about. I'm going to note it on the page as a comment. Yeah, sorry, Anna. I did see it is sort of mentioned in there. So yeah, I think that would be useful certainly for people like me where I understand where some of the discussions that have happened that might sway the decision, the reasons why some of the engineering team think the current plugins approach may be stretching it too far to extend it to the remit, but this sort of working groups aiming for any of that background or discussion. Yeah, that'd be really useful to read. Yeah. Gotcha. I mean, it's not it's mostly just chats. So unfortunately, it's not. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, that's cool. I'll ask the team to put in a little bit of that color in this in the modular Basu page. Awesome. Yeah, that'd be great. All right. Anything else that can be this that or the other thing? Oh, no, nothing from a side. Awesome. No, I think just on the the second goal, the distribution side of things. Did you want to chat separately Matt about some of that outside of the modularity workshop called tomorrow? Yeah, I owe you a review of your document. I still haven't gotten to that. No, all right. Yeah, it's not super long and it's super high level initial questions. Yeah, I think, you know, this can be accomplished as part of the modularity discussion and separately. So I think, yeah, let's get through the first meeting and then depending on how we decide to approach this, it might be worth starting like as kind of another track around how we reach this goal, whether it's through modules or some other thing. Yeah. I think that that can be kind of similar. Like we, there's multiple ways we can accomplish that. So let's make sure we're considering the other avenues to. Yeah, yeah, totally. Yeah. Yeah, I think one aim I guess I have is that in that sort of document that talks about, you know, sort of release cycle. What one or two use cases, you know, sketched out use cases for a couple of different types of release might help us a useful sort of playing back some of the technical discussion. How would that, how does technical outcomes make easier or make harder, you know, those, those release cycle sort of sample use cases, I guess. So maybe that's something else for me to try and add into that. That document as well. Yeah. Sweet. That works for me. I'll take a review today. I'll give you some comments. It's not very long so I will get to say for sure. Awesome. Cool. Thanks. All right, folks, I will see you all tomorrow. I'll make sure to share as much as I can in that channel. These documents are living for sure. So if you haven't read them in the last couple of days, definitely. Unfortunately, but yeah, I'll make sure we can get as much detail up front. I'll have the engineers share some discussion. If there are any that are relevant and we can go from there. Awesome. Thank you. Thank you. Bye.