 I'm having my guest who are really making my morning here. But anyway, I've been teasing them in just a few. Today on youth and politics, of course, we'll be looking at sensors. Are we ready as a country? And of course, the persons involved that is the government and Kenyan National Bureau of Statistics. Are we ready for this? That's the question we'll be looking at later on. But let's first of all look at the background history of sensors in Kenya. It began in 1948 when the first sensors was conducted, of which it was reported that it was not released. That's the story that has been really, really emerging. And of course, looking at this year's budget for the sensors, it's sorry, as I wish to apologize. All along, I said 1.1, it's 18.5 billion shillings. And that the current standard as it is. And of course, on Friday 16, that is last week Friday, the president, of course, officially launched the exercise at Kenyatta International Convention Center, noting that the exercise will help the government in both planning and decision making as far as the results that will be given. So when is the exercise supposed to begin? It's supposed to begin on the 24 that is days coming steadily all through to the 31st of August. And that gives me the opportunity to introduce my guest as we look at sensors this year. Of course, from my right, it's Muthiora Kariyara. Thank you, Alex. Kribusana. Nashkoro. Yes, yes. How does it feel being here for some other time also? Well, it's always a joy to get an opportunity to interact with the young people in Kenya. I know they are tuned in because this is their station. So it's always a pleasure. Yes. Also, most of all, of course, next to him is Nannadabutan Ogunda Kariyasa. Yes. Kribusana. Pleasure to be here. Pleasure to be with you, Alex, and former presidential candidate in last elections. This is a great man. It's a great man. Any time he has been here, he's been a big blessing to us. It's a wealth of knowledge. Wealth of wisdom is just a bundle of everything. Wow, that's awesome. For the first time, guys, I'm having people live on air. He must say, I want to say, I want to be a guest anyway. That still is going to be awesome. We really find it like this. So I wish I hope it's not end up like chaotic. You know, it usually ends up like we cannot agree on this particular issue. I hope it still continues. The golden handshake on studio. That, of course, is because one thing I've advocated for is, let us look to expand the discourse. Allow me to express myself. Get to hear what my ideas are. As young people, we've got to challenge our intellect. We can differ in opinion, in ideas, but then we shouldn't take it too far so as to get physical or violent. Yes, and Alex, we don't have to agree on everything. We cannot disagree at times. We also don't have to disagree all the time. So long as we have ideas, we are dependent people who think independently, who have the ability to express their own. So if we see the point of convergence, we converge. If there is a point we should diverse, we get on our own points. So long as we think we are right. Men full of wisdom here at 20.4. And of course, you are a third person, of course. We want to invite you, of course, to interact with us on our social media platforms. Of course, we are looking at sensors. We are looking at that, of course, with my guest. But to begin it, do you think, of course, you'd mentioned something earlier on, but I want you to see it on your doing as Kenyans and, of course, involving the government also. Are we ready for sensors? Well, Kenya has never been ready for anything to say the truth. But then, because there are programs that the government has to run, we are forced to play ball as they come through. I'll take you back to the Huduma number phenomenon that we had. Obviously, we were not ready because public participation had not been done. Kenyans had not been sensitized as to why we needed to do the Huduma number. But then, since the government had rolled out this program, we went through it. To date, we are here to see the results or the benefits of that. So the sensors, it's scheduled that we will do it after every 10 years. So 10 years have lapsed. We must head into the sensors. They are located funds for the same because they believe we need to do this exercise and it does help with the planning. So we have to be ready. That's the one thing I have to say. We will be coming at the planning issue, of course, where we need to have sensors. But something probably you've just mentioned, it's something that really raises my concerns. As Kenyans, we are not usually ready. But my thought would be, there's that ideology that people have, like the constitution, the 2010 promulgated constitution, it raises a lot of concerns because people never, right? Most people, let me say, most people never, right? They say too much or no. Do you think it's a weakness that, as Kenyans, we have? Well, a lot of us, and this is painful to say, are ignorant. They delegate to the politicians some very important roles. Like for instance, if you asked people, why are we doing the sensors? They will tell you because the government says so. When in fact we know, even at home, for you to be able to do whatever projects that you need to do, you need proper planning. And to do that, you need statistics, you need to have the right figures. So we need to not delegate important duties to our leaders because most times, selfish interests come in the way. Now, that said, let us not make it light that this exercise is important because we need the right figures to be able to plan accordingly. We've been working with estimates for way too long and we need to get this right. Why I said we will have to be ready because it's a government program is because we need to have prepared differently. As the young people involved in the exercise, as the citizens, what did we need to do before the government got ready? Those are questions we should have addressed before we got here. Unless you've asked him two questions that I want to merge and hand last one. Whether we, Kenya is ready for this sensors and whether we delegate important duties for others to do for us. Kenya is economically aggressive country from top the government officials to local money. Like now, if these sensors thing was accompanied by, say each house they enter, they will give like 2000, something, you'll be very ready for it. Like people would be jeering, could you let this come? People would be very ready for it. But now because people don't see the immediate, financial capabilities that comes with it, people are reluctant to say, how is it going to help me anyway? They can even cheat, they can do anything. And about the delegation of duties like, no, I was around, very much around and active in university politics when, no, that was a country politics. When they were counting people in 2009. Not counting people, the constitution or whatever. When they were telling people to read, read, read. Like every government officials come and say, read and understand. Don't say yes or no before you read and understand. How was that going to help us financially? Like immediately, how was it going to help us? We voted for some people to go read for us. Like we, the people of Yansah was saying, Baba me saw ma kase man imzuri. So at any saw man is for saw ma. It's good because Baba said, yes. Is it a weakness that we have as Kenyans? No, but we've delegated some people to do some things for us. Why should we bother doing it ourselves? And especially now that there are people, so many people are literate. And that was a big booklet. Like you are doing it, you're going to read it and you don't have exams to do after that. And nobody's going to pay you for reading it for that matter. And somebody has read it. Somebody was really interested in it and who has your political interest at hand has read it and said it is good. So people say, oh, he said it's good. So we'll see it. Tapambana and Iwaki figure. All right, yes. There's an issue I want us to mention because both of you have agreed on one thing about the lack of inclusivity. The Building Bridges Initiative just completed its sit-ins of the public app. And one of the nine point agenda was inclusivity. Do you think we are really the government or rather us as people, we're being included in all the government's projects? There is talk about inclusivity. But when it comes to action, it really isn't there. You cannot put a hold on it. It's true that the BBI panel went around the counties gathering views from Kenyans. And it's better than the other initiative that's out there, the Pungusam Zigo. Because at least here, they had nine points and they were gathering views on the same. But then for these other one, people locked themselves in a room, came out with a proposal of a bill and then they are running with it. Now that aside, if we go back to the census talk that we had started, we knew it was coming. The government planned for it. The players in there, because of whatever benefits it brings, they got ready for it. But then you've seen across the country, young people coming out to say, I applied for that job. I deserve to get it. I should get it. But someone else who's not from my locality is the one that got it. Which means we did not prepare for it. Because if we did, we would have remembered, OK, we have a very corrupt government. So when it comes to hiring, they're not going to hire competently. So what could we have done? We could have mobilized. We could have organized these youths. And this is something requesting our young people to do. Come together. Yes, because the biggest number is 135,000 enumerators. There are millions of young people out there. And so they can't fit amongst these numbers. But because corruption will run the day at some point, what we needed to do is come together, nominate from amongst ourselves, give these names to the assistant chiefs so that they do not have the leeway to choose their relatives like we have seen them do. So we did not prepare to take part in the exercise. And that's why we've seen disruptions here and there. So that's number one. Number two, you've had a call from leaders that you need to go back to your constituencies to be counted. How many people are ready to do that? Who's doing the logistics to make sure that these people go back to their villages to be counted? So preparations on the side of the monarchy are not where they should be. So when you talk about inclusivity, we have a weakness there. But the talk, of course, is out. And you have brought in something that I wanted us, of course, also to mention. And of course, I want Mr. Nguido to respond to these. There have been issues with how the employment was done. And of course, just to bring it clear, there are 135,000 animators that were employed, 27,000 content supervisors, and of course, 2,700 ICT experts. Out of all these, there have been issues, of course, you know, from Kiambu and all over the country, some parts of the country, that the process that was taken was not transparent. How do you make chiefs of employers? Chiefs of all the people, Alex, chiefs. There's nothing there. There can't be clarity where chiefs are involved. You know those guys? Every sitting, they sit with, from my village, they sit with some elders, some village elders, which are not even picked democratically. They picks them. So it helps them in funding the corruption, those people. So those people with every little sitting, like somebody sues you to them, it's like they have their own courts, their own small courts there. If you are sued, you give the, they will say something to eat fast before they even hear your case. When you are accused, maybe wrongly accused and all that. So I saw the comment on something leaked on the internet of the color where the census employment, and now the chiefs, the chiefs comment area. I had mentioned that, I had seen that actually. Yeah, you saw the comments of the chief, not a member of us, not a member of this community, as a criminal record, very lazy, ran away with some Buddhist daughter. Like all those who are now the comments running on chiefs. Those guys are, most of the time, they are not positive. And again, because of the corruption, my friend is mentioning about, yeah, you could get, most of those who got those jobs, teachers, civil servants, those who already have employment. But the court, but the court actually, last week said, if possible, you can even stop the census because they said, actually, if there's any civil servant who is on census, it should be out of the system. Yeah, how did they even get there in the first place? When some, from my village, I have so many graduates who don't have jobs, why didn't they get it? Why should a teacher who is on government payroll get a job, a temporary job? By the way, we'll be teaching at the time, we will be enumerating people. I understand it's night, it's night time. But should you be making schemes of work at that time instead of taking jobs that should be belonging to you? Let me ask something from you. Let me tell you one thing. I mobilized people from my village, the graduates who don't have jobs, to go for the training, even if they were not taken, to go for the training and get trained because that job rightfully belong to them. And if they are sent out, they go out with those teachers, with everybody. It worked. Those guys from the county reorganized the list and now they took the right people. I told those people to go to training where they have been picked or not. And they went. Yes. And that's how they were picked. Let me ask these probably just to you, Mr. Mathiora. Yes. Don't you think chiefs are the best people to pick people because they know people from the local areas. That's where they are chiefs. That's not how it works. And that's why we are looking to amend the constitution on some things. Look at how the hiring at the counties has been done. Nepotism is at its highest level today than it has ever been. Why? Because the people on the ground are the ones doing the hiring. So if you leave it to the chief, he's going to pick people based on his relationship with them. And money. Yes, of course. Now, there's something he just said about how decisions are passed at the chief's office. Something he didn't mention is it's not just they're accused that's asked to give something. Even the person who is reporting a matter also has to facilitate the sitting. So with that kind of corruption, nothing good can come out of it. The best thing they could have done is just centralize this recruitment process. Let it be done nationally. Let people apply. Let everyone have a fair chance. That's number one. Number two, he's spoken about how he asked people to go and invade those spaces. Yes, of course. Sometimes we need to do such things. But then we don't have to wait until it gets there. What we need to do as people who have been through school and have a bit of information is to organize in advance. We can even go to court, get an injunction to stop a process when it does not meet all the tenets of the Constitution. So one thing he's confirmed is that young people are willing to follow guidance when it's given, like he said he did give. So let leaders like him go out there and give information to our young people so that we take the right action before it's too late. Just to bring us here on board, let's understand is that the enumerators were being taken by or rather were being chosen by the assistant chiefs. And the content supervisors were being chosen by the chiefs themselves. For the ICT, actually, I think it was district commissioners if I'm not wrong. And in all things, you're trying to say there's corruption involved. Yes. At every level, assistant chief, chief, whatever, you can't. For me, the best way that I think there can be transparency on some of these jobs is maybe to organize some committee by law polling station. And then those committees choose their people from those polling stations say, if you want three people or seven people per polling station, we are giving you based on needs, based on merit, and based on maybe the character, your character. They know people. They know people who are there. And it's a committee, not one person show, like the chiefs running all the show. So they say, Alex, I'm giving you this person. We are giving you this. So take those employees. Those are our people. That can be more transparent. That is now where the participation and involvement come in. If I were the president of somebody, there will be one. But there will be some president of this kind at some point of time. Yes, I will. So that's it will be my running mate. It's a design for running mate. So that's how we will organize things. Like there are people who are not on a permanent basis. Maybe you run the show for one year, then you have another committee, one year, one committee, one year. So if you want something based on the village, we give you the mandate to ask a committee to choose your people from there. Those who got it this time round, don't get it again next time. So that it's rotational. That is the best participation that I know Something we need to acknowledge is that opportunities and resources are scarce in the country. Yes, 135,000 numerators across the nation. That's a very small number. So there's no way every young person who was applying for this job was going to get it. Now, of course, there is logic in the argument that we need to hire people from a particular locality to do the sensors within that locality. But then technology is advancing. And sometimes to find your way, you don't need to know a place. You can use GPS and such technological advances. So we do not have to limit ourselves that we have to work in the areas where we come from. What we need is for this process to be transparent and to give everyone a fair chance. So again, it goes back to how prepared are we for whatever opportunities that are coming. This was just one. It has been done as we've seen. And of course, remember, if you want to collude and you're in your locality, it's very easy. So talk about the integrity of the process as well. That's why we need to let professionals do their job. But when they are doing their job, let them do it the best way that it can be done. It was not right for the assistant chiefs and chiefs to be left to handle this. We have a public service commission. And some important roles such as this should be handled by such. There are those who are selected nationally. They should find a mechanism to cascade that all the way to those lower levels so that you do not make light of something as important as a sensors exercise. Because people will say these figures were cooked when they were not. Or in some places, they will deliberately be altered to fix certain narratives that politicians want. And there's nothing we can do about it because the whole process was misadvised. Let's get this already deep insight into the sensors thing. And this is the first paper that's exercise in Kenya. Do you think we will give some accurate results? Considering even the previous one in 2009, there are speculations and allegations that it was not that certain of the results. What do you think? Did we even have the official figures in 2009? Can you remember any figures like the official release of sensors results and all of this? There were some monkey games in it, a lot of it. They were saying, Jean Somali, some people who crossed the border and became counted this time down. The problem with this, Alex, is that we really politicize it. It doesn't come like a planning thing. It's politics. Things I was in Western Kenya last week during some camp meetings. And it's there having something called camp meetings in August, every August. So camp meetings is that a church organises where people go and camp in church for a whole week. And they call guests from, we were called from here, from Nairobi, a singing group, and we were there. And the chief made a very careless statement that I got worried. Chief said that because we are in a camp meeting, it's happening all over the world. So because we have a camp meeting, we are lucky because we have guests around us, and these guests will be counted here. So our numbers will be bigger because this, so that's stupidity. I see further places don't have the same thing. Another thing, it's assumed that when you are counted in a certain area and that area is perceived to be bigger and all that, then there are some advantages that come with it. And it also comes with CG votes, Zita Kwamingi Uko, and all that. Of course we'll be looking at that later on. Yes. So the politics that surround it, the whole of it is like making it, diluting it, and making so many expectations out of it. And again, I do ask myself because, you know, there are deaths registration and births registration. Every time a child is born, there's a notification card. Every time a person is buried, there's burial certificate and all that. And those statistics go up to national level. Why don't they extrapolate all these from, now the census, the last census, how many births, how many deaths, now we have the number. Why do we have to go through all this? It's like some ornamenting exercise that is politicized, that is, like they use it like for economical advantages and all that, but I see a lot of problems in it. Are we really advancing or are we really going backwards? I think we are making progress, albeit too slow. Right. As a government, or if I was to be head of government, I think this would be the last census that should be conducted. Yes. Because technology has advanced. Today, almost every birth is registered. Yes, that's what I said. So, going forward. And every day this also registered. Yes, going forward with the introduction of the Huduma numbers and all these other registrations that have been going on, there may be need to rethink this crapping of these decade-long census that we keep doing. Now, of course, you know the repercussions and that is, for instance, guided by our constitution. There are constituencies that, if the census is done right this time round, will cease to exist. Now, a scientific process would guarantee that that process is foolproof. Right. But if we follow the same methods we've done before, we'll not get the results that we need. So what we need is to follow a very methodical process going forward. After we count people this time round, we will say from next year, all the births and deaths that we look at will be aligned with our statistics. Every new job entrant will be recorded. Every change in the demography of Kenya will be recorded down. And that will help so that we don't have to wait for 10 years to have the statistics to plan for the next phase. So we need a continuous process. Alex, when I will be a president in 2042, you know what I'll do? I'll make a live update on internet. Where you go and see in Migori County or in Kirinaga County, three children have been born right now, like Pahawa, three children born, seven children born, like it's update. You go there and see these figures are rising. Like, you know, so that by the time, by the end of the month, you know how many children have been born, how many people have been buried and all that. How many people have got jobs, how many people have acquired new cars, like this live, like we do live stream of this TV. There should be live stream of national statistics. It can work. It doesn't have to wait for 2042. The statistics he's talking about already exists. Keare knows how many cars are registered every day. The internal, the ministry for internal, they know how many people are born and how many die. All this data needs to be aggregated. Then what's the essence of this physical counting? Well, sometimes we say people have to eat and that's why they would push for this to happen right now when they say we are working on a way to make this process continuous. So I was just saying, we don't have to wait until 2042. What we need to do is to keep exerting pressure for the policy makers to act with speed to save the taxpayers from these wasteful expenditures that we go through every other time. So are you trying to say sensors will scrap off some of the expense that the country is using? No, it will not. This is just an additional cost that the taxpayer has to meet of 18 billion, 18.5 billion. We could calculate what that money could do to help the unemployment in this case or to fix the health problem that is taking away our leaders and local people on the time, the cancer thing. We can extrapolate how much this money can help in maybe cushioning the poor. Yeah, from there, from there going to bed, empty stomach and all that. This money can do better things like more than the physical counting. It's two 19th century, it's like minting money and there's no sense on it. That money could be used in better ways. All right, so I'm trying to think about the country allocation that they're telling me there has been there between the Senate and the National Assembly. And I wanna ask these, and do you think we're failing in one or the other, you know, the National Assembly, do you think under Senate are the leaders failing or are they really waiting for the census to first of all give us the result then the money can be given? It has nothing to do with the census. The resource allocation, that is a leadership crisis that Kenya is facing. If you look at it. Between the two houses? It's not just between the two houses. All right. Because the people who have the majority in the National Assembly, as you believe, they're not fighting with NASA. They are together in the National Assembly. You go to the Senate, the majority leader in the Senate is not in conflict with the minority leader. So it's just a tussle between the two houses as to who is more superior. Now, if we had the right kind of leadership, these leaders would have been brought under the same roof and made to agree for the sake of Juan Jico. Because the person that stands to lose is the common one, Anchi. So I would say it's a crisis leadership we are facing and we should be wary that it will take longer than it could have because we have the wrong people in those jobs. And it's sad because when people were electing the leaders we have today, they believed they were the best and they had our interests at heart. But clearly, if you look at how things are, that's not the truth. Do you think we are messed up with the mentality of my people? Yeah, there's no my people in this thing. We are in a capitalistic society where everybody fights for their own interests. So this is a pure personal interest war where they think the National Assembly thinks if they dominate then they will get more money and that money they will divide and all that. The Senate also thinks we are the senior house. You don't have a location. By the way, Senators don't have any locations to spend on the ground. Like the CDF, the MPs have CDFs. The women reps have National Affirmation Fund, something like that. The Senate don't have one. So Senate want to make policies that will favor them so that they get some kitty to control and you know the meaning of controlling. It's purported that it's one-inches money. Like CDF is purported to be one-inches money. And like sometimes I tried to apply for a tender at CDF. Hey, the committee there want to meet you at some hotel, you cater for all those bills. Want their share up front. The MP wants his share up front. By the time, okay, we got the tender. And by the time we hired a tractor, it was maintaining some road. By the time we got a tractor hard, a tractor to do that job, we ran into negatives after the incentives of treating the committee and the MP and all that. We ran into negatives and we had to look for other account to pay this. So it is not national at people's interest. It is their own interest. I blame it on capitalist society that we are in. Could I elaborate on the leadership crisis I'm talking about? You see, the governors, the senators and the MPs all come from somewhere. Take for instance, Nairobi County. If the governor spent time with the leaders from Nairobi, sat with the MPs and discussed what priorities exist within this county. In the presence of the senators, they would agree on a lot of things so that when the budget came to the house, the MP would be carrying the interest of the county with him or with her. So would the senator as well. But because our governors want to be some demigods, they don't want to talk to anyone. They are alienated far away from reality. The senators for wanting to be relevant, what do they do? They also want to make a lot of noise so that they can be seen to be doing something. And then because there is a lacuna in our constitution, the National Assembly members do what? Also take advantage of the situation to make themselves as popular as they can. Are we talking about enriching yourself? That's part of it. But it goes beyond just enriching yourself because at the end of the day, whether the budget passes or not, they will eat. That's given. But now there is this other thing about ego who has the most power, who deserves the most respect and that comes in the way of them executing. Yes, which really affected us once we had the first governors with the flagship and all that stuff. It was really a mess back in the days. I want us to look at the issue of numbers during elections. It usually emerges, you know, my people analogy and who you need to wear to analogy. Yes. And it really affects so much because we end up feeling like who you need to wear to incline to the person. And that person, that one to wow, doesn't help them in long run. They help themselves. It doesn't, that person doesn't help them. It's just to wear, to wear, to machiner. And after that to machiner, to kunanja is the next thing. To kunanja, to jellywee and all that. And it keeps on, I don't know why you can just don't learn. You really burn some wood in the name of, it's our person and not, your person don't help you. Like you can't freely get to his home because if it is your person and all that. They get to what can help them. Just what Madhura says, it is two things. Dispersonal gain and remaining relevant to control power. It's all about that. So whether these numbers will favor you some communities have worth, you some communities have worth. It's at the long run hung wash. I think this is why they run it. Whether they, because they have some other ways of obtaining these figures, they are not using them because maybe those figures cannot be seen manipulated because they are captured in there. No, I see it live footprints. So if you manipulate it, like they were saying about the other elections of this opening servers, you what, you could see a lot of things there because they are footprints there. So they want this manual thing because you can manipulate it. You can change it three to eight. Three is written this way. So you just add an inverted three and it say it and you have it or add some zeroes and you have it. You know, that prompts me to ask another question into of accuracy during the census. But I want us to first of all dwell on the issue of into where to, because it has really affected. Do you think young people are the most affected because that's been alleged so? Young people make the biggest percentage in our population. So when there's a problem, they are the ones who suffer the most. Them to a narrative only favors the politician when they are caught with their hand in the cooking, in the cooking jar. Otherwise, it is no benefit at any other point. They will tell you mean when, when they want your votes. And then after that, it will not show up until they are caught doing something they shouldn't be doing, which is stealing the resources that should be coming to the monarchy. Now, I have been accused of living in Utopia for imagining a Kenya where tribalism does not play a role in how we elect our leaders, where giving out bribes does not influence how people are going to vote. But that's where the young people need to step up. There is a cartel that currently runs things in Kenya. And the best way to defeat a cartel is to replace it with a better one. And- A better cartel? Yes. All right. And that's what the young people need to realize that so far the people who have been running this nation are the older generation. The rich, the fat cuts. And as long as those are the people making the policies, the young people will never have a say. The policies will never favor them. So what the young people need to do is to become selfish, forget about your tribe, forget about your class, come together with other like-minded individuals, fight to further your interests. Do you think young people decry from the truth? Pardon? Do you think young people decry from the truth? They're trying to run away from the truth. We have done that a lot of times and politicians know that we are looking for an identity so they will give it to us. They will tell us you are from this tribe. You are from that particular social class and you will never amount too much. So what you need to do is support me and I will fight for you. But nobody will fight for you. You have to fight for yourself. Right. Come together around whatever activity is that you do. If you are masons, organize around that. If you are hawkers, organize around that and look to begin. There is safety in numbers. What the young people need to do is to forget their tribes, is to forget the short-term goals they have. Have a bigger picture. See it and go for it. Wow. That makes me... Ogunda, there's a question that... There's something he has mentioned about personal vision and the country's vision. Are we living in a time when young people believe in their vision but they don't want to support the government's vision? I don't agree. What I know is that the politicians really know how to camouflage. Camouflaging like the chameleon. You will see politicians when youth decry for their gender. They will quickly join the youth in their cry and say, They are crying for you. Like now they are crying for you. Very fast, very fast. You see like they are crying for you. So that they water down what you do. Like they become part of you and finish you from within. They will sit down with you, Alex. Very fast, sit down with you and say, So since you came to Vijana, let us do it this way. So your main vision for coming together and decrying for your help or for your right position, they water it down to what suits them. I want to give you the recent example. You've seen people saying, Mananchewa Kawahedas is saying this. Wanjiku is saying this. So Wanjiku, how will this benefit Wanjiku? The politicians who have come are calling themselves Wanjiku. They are now the Wanjiku, saying, Southia Wanjiku. The Southia Wanjiku is saying this. And they are the same politicians who have been enjoying, who have been in the offices for over 10 years. Now they are the Wanjiku. They are watering it down. So when the youth are seen to be like singing the discord, like going against what the government wants, it's not like their fault. It's just because these people either want to brand them like they are discordant or want to join them and water down. Like it's finishing, the agenda is finishing. So it's either we finish you from within or finish you from outside. Are we holding this as for political gains? That's part of it. Senses helps the leaders or those in power to divide people. And when you're divided, then you're easy to rule. I personally believe that the results from these senses will be used to partition Kenya for political interests. Now, about the topic we were talking about, what we need to do as the Wananchi is to realize that our problem is not ethnicity. Our problem is poverty. Our problem is lack of opportunities. Our problem is corruption. Corruption, a toxic business environment. That's where we need to direct our anger. That's what we need to organize to eliminate. And we cannot be selfish in terms of how we think so that we say we want it now. We need to think about the generations that will come after us. That's how we're going to defeat devices that keep Kenya down. Let's find our thunder. Kenya can be great. Nobody remembers that Kenya that was so great that everyone had an opportunity before Kenya came into existence. What we need to do is to imagine such a nation because it's possible. Other nations have done it. We can do it too. I can say no to bribes. I have done it. You can too. Why can't Kenya be great? All right, and unfortunately gentlemen, we are out of time. But before we go out, there's a question I want us to ask ourselves. Will the government, after the access of census, manage to solve the unemployment minus in the country? The same thing they were saying in 2009 when they were counting people. That they want to use the numbers to plan for us to address them and employment, whatever. Or have they done? So what do we expect? Like doing the same process the same time, failing and repeating the same, same process and promising what you promised the other time. So it is only who are foolish to think that this has us will solve everything. We don't want it. That was a previous government. Do you think this one will manage? I think the same people who are running, they show are the same same people. Maybe political parties may be different, but the same people who are there in 2009 are the same people who are here. So what do you expect? The government knows what the numbers are. That's given. But when you ask them about unemployment, they'll give you a rate that's less than 30%. When we know that out of every 10 Kenyans, and let's talk about the youth in this case, only two are employed. The other, in that group, you have one who has a part-time job. You have another one who works half the number of days in a month. And then all the others depend on those who are working. So if you want to understand the employment situation or environment in Kenya, counting people is not the solution. What you need to do is to deploy scientific methods that are not the same old ones that we have used. I've had an opportunity to interrogate the process they will use. And I can tell you it's not going to help give the statistics that will help eliminate unemployment because we live in denial. We say unemployment in Kenya is not over 50%. When we know it's over 50%. Actually, the statistics say it's 40%. Well, they dispute that. They give a figure of less than 30%. So as long as we live in denial that our young people are not as badly off as the situation says they are, we will not provide a solution for the problem. Where do you think we need to rectify the terms of unemployment in the country? We know that the government needs to create a business environment that helps businesses to thrive. Companies are running out of Kenya because the cost of doing business is too huge because of corruption. Yes, we are talking about connecting homes to electricity. But then at what cost, we should make power affordable to businesses so that we can create the jobs that the young people need. Are we doing that? We are not because we are one of the highest taxed economies in the world. So we preach water but then we drink wine when it comes to the same thing. Let us walk the talk. Let's not just talk good but then when it comes to doing the good that we need to do, we walk back and hide in those cocoons where we are asking what is in it for me? Let us do it for Kenya. Do you think there's a part of young people that is feeling like the government has never even taken care of us? Where we have reached to a place of young people are feeling like now we cannot wait for the government anymore. Do you think there's something that is really needed for the government to do? So ask to bring young people on board because we have been hearing of lack with the CVT, divisive politics about the Nalport agenda and so much has been happening. And of course, even the other day, someone here was mentioning about the BPI team. There was no young person. In the cabinet, is there any young person? The answer is no. There is talk about expanding the executive where we'll have a president, a deputy president, deputy prime minister, all those positions. None of those positions is designated for the young people. And that's why I'm asking the young people to organize, just like the women are doing. Let us say there will be nothing for us if we are not on the table to talk about what should be for us. Right. So one thing the government needs to do is to recognize that the youth are not a problem to be solved. We are a resource that needs to be harnessed. They need to tap on to us. And once they do that, Kenya will experience a meteoric rise from these mess we are in right now, the insecurity we talk about every other time, the drug problem, the gambling. All those vices will go away if we recognize that this is a resource that we need to harnessed for the betterment of our nation. All right. Do you think we're just going to use 18 plus billion shillings for the census? No. No, no, no. It can do a better thing. Louis say, Louis say, say, say, say, say, say, say, say, say, say, say, say, say, say, say, it means these people are the same. They are just those people. I'm explaining you to this. These people are just the same people we saw the other time. The only difference is that they have changed clothes. They are just the other people we saw the other time. They have only changed clothes. So I'm advising you to concentrate on what can develop them. If it is education, if it is business, if it is confidence, if it is anything, they concentrate on it. But they don't should not, as long as these are just the other people, it's only close that they have changed, they should not expect much from government. All right. That's right. The way they say that we should create employment for ourselves. But they say so when they seek employment from us. Yes. We are the people employing them. But they say we should look, create employment for ourselves. When we are employing them. So as long as we are still, we are still under their mercy, let's look on what can develop us. Let us not expect much. All right, gentlemen, many thanks for making it. And I really appreciate of course keeping, of course me interacted here, and of course keeping our viewers interacted. Many thanks for your views, and of course your comments. We might actually be sampling them and Charles Ireri was a matter, watching from Shammata, big up man. And of course we have Samuel Ngugi, Kayole Naivasha present. Great. Keith Wanjala Simio. 12. Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! We have of course Leet Maas. This is Leet Maas from Kisumu. This census thing is brought about to steal our money. All right. Just the other day, they performed, they performed rather, the Huduman number. Bonawasi to me, their data they got. Okay. Kuna watu wanafaku wacham yadarati. Yeah. Anyway, those guys are high on yadarati. All right. Those are some of the views that you guys have been sending over. And we really appreciate your feedback. And of course we'll be looking at more of these later on at the tail end of the show. Of course, Val is coming up in just a few don't touch the dial. Keep it wild. Too far for my name is Karanja Alex.