 All right, here we go Hello everybody if it's Wednesday, it's Warhammer and that must mean it's time for another episode of Warhammer weekly Joining me as always. I suppose he would be one of my brides. It's Tom. What's up, buddy? Hello friends Also joining us. We're very happy to have him on the show mr. Clint heralds of war You know now co-host of Sigmar down under with coach. I mean I think the list of accolades to of of can con ages sigmar and just an all-around hobby hero What's up, sir? Howdy, how's it going? It's going well, man. It's great to have you on the show Clint took excellent care of me last year this year. Holy crap. That was this year. It's still this year somehow this year feels like 50 years ago when I was down in In Australia at the beginning of the year. I want to share a fun story real quick So here's it. Here's a thing that happened for those of you who watch the show regularly You probably know that like I I vape because that's just it's me whatever and I had my juice down with me and I had that and I kept it in my pocket and One night the first night of tournament. I was kind of crawling around the floor helping clean up because people are Messy messy individuals and relieving bottles and stuff around so it was cleaning You know helping everybody clean up doing my part and I got back to the hotel and I reached my pocket And I realized oh no my juice had fallen out. No, this is this is a nightmare situation because I was low on juice Make I got by then the next morning I walk in and I walk over to Clinton I'm like hey, this is a super long shot. Keep mine can't constitute Hundreds of people just for the aOS stuff and let's not even mention the other hundreds of people in this larger massive, you know auditorium rumor in and I'm like you didn't happen to find a small bottle of like red juice and Clint without missing a beat just reaches in his pocket and goes this and just hands it back to me I was like oh my god boom Yes, this is it my savior. So This is what this is what addiction looks like folks, but clit save my life. So it's great Yeah, it was a fun time and I know sadly there's no can con this year Which is a shame Australia is Has turned a corner, but nonetheless lots of tournaments still happening smaller tournaments And I know we're here to we're to build to an incredible 2022 can con Which I certainly plan on being there for and I hope all of you out there who could attend is gonna be there as well I assume you're already getting some big plans going Clint There will be my 2021 plans just on ice because I already had big plans for 2021 and then sort of About June I went I'm not gonna get to do any of this Well, that's all right, it's only gonna make next year all the sweeter There we go The But there will be some tournaments you you mentioned you're going to a tournament this weekend, right? Yeah, because you you're you guys are still doing some some smaller turnies Yeah, we're doing stuff. I think it's about 36 players or something like that for a two-day event Down in Brisbane. So yeah, I'm super keen. It's my first tournament in 14 or 15 months or something like that Well, I my jealousy knows no bounds Clint. I want you to know that so good luck All right at any rate though, we're gonna be talking about vampire speculation tonight We're gonna be talking about what we think the vampires are will be are they a thing are we getting a vampire army? Is it happening? Yes Okay, so but we're gonna we're gonna talk about it. But first of course we've got the news Tommy, what's up? So we have a rumor engine we do I only have a hammer rumor engine up. I want to talk about this This makes me angry. Okay. Of course it does this like I get it Warcom team Guys, look. Hello. Hello. Go over the over the camp camera camera to join me over here camera to We're hammer community team. Hi. How you doing? You're all great people. I want you to know that I really do appreciate all of you and I completely understand why Like at some point back the rumor engine used to just be the picture in the article Right like you used to be able to just see it and then they realized that people weren't clicking through So they hid the picture Right and you have to actually click into the article to see the image. They got to get their clicks I understand. We got to get our clicks guys. So I get it. No issue. I'm fine with it, okay? With these advent calendar images, it was the same thing They would just show like 15 or something right and you would click in and then it would show you the picture And you would see the list of all of the advent calendar And it would show you all of the pictures that had been revealed, you know Like an advent calendar where when you've opened the door you can see the thing right then today They just randomly decided that no when you click into the article Now every one of them is also hidden again And you have to click into the individual picture So I couldn't do like a collected one. I was like, well, I'm not going into each one of these and put in the last They need to get their clicks. I guess All I guess So I couldn't do like a snippy screen capture Of you know the last seven days, which is what I wanted to do because I wasn't going to like Click in one save the image and then compile it into some kind of thing. I'm not doing that. I got my limits of what I'll do Uh So at any rate stop that nonsense just put the image up on the page and they got rid of all the old ones All the old I was like, that's fine. I'll just go grab yesterday's. Nope. Those are all gone They were like, ah gotcha You only go into this one So at any rate, there's my little apparently that's the technology. They should not be going into the advent calendars. Yeah, I guess not So at any rate, I got today's which is a cool hammer Which I think is a lumineff bolt thrower Or a war war machine thing There's my guess That's what I think it is Two things we know one it looks like a relatively small live hand right to Lumineff love hammers. We know that for sure. Okay, three Uh It looks rather simplistic like the hammer itself doesn't look weapon like it looks more utilitarian Right rather than as somebody you smash with a hammer some big impressive weapon So i'm thinking like the crew of a war machine or something like maybe a bolt thrower like they hammer the to knock the bolt in the place Could it could it be the most epic double bluff? And we're actually getting a vampire hunter and it's his hand with the hammer to hammer in the stake Oh, that would be amazing. I like that idea too Uh, I don't hate that idea Uh, but I think this is very clearly a lord of the rings model um because you Can get out of here if you think that they're going to design a hammer with no filigree anything on it, right? Um for for for all of aos Like we long ago left the world where there's plain iron heads on hammers sure That doesn't exist in aos anymore. Just not at all So this clearly is not an aos model. I don't think it's 40k either I think it's a lord of the rings Because part of the design philosophy for sculpting the lord of the rings models is like adhering to the aesthetics and that would match the aesthetics of like Some shire people or whatever like um or like a fortification builder or a smith or I don't know Regardless, it's not a war hammer model. That's my call. Okay. All three good guesses. I like that My favorite if I get to pick one of these to be true is I want Clint to be right, of course Yes, uh, yeah. Yeah. Well, that's the double box then, isn't it right? The vampire it's in the hunt is done That's immediately what we'll follow on with because as soon as once we actually get vampires Then the immediate next question is when do we get our vampire hunters, right? Like that's order of azir It has to one follows the other. Yeah, sure as night follows day, right? Like they just come right after each other Uh, I know how this goes. I've I've seen castlevania Uh, I watch vampire d. I get this The better leaden would have been they would have released the order of azir with vampire hunt hunters and you're like What what are they? What are they hunting? What are they for? Yeah? Yeah, and they're like and they're like no, they're real We're here for them and everybody's like well, well tom I'm going to argue that that exact thing already happened when we get into the vampire speculation Oh You'll have to stay tuned. All right. What else we got? Um Something's happening this saturday. No armies on parade. We have a live show this saturday or there is a live show rather Yeah, yeah, yeah, i'm gonna watch. I want to see who wins I just want to see all the images of people's armies on parade boards I mean, they were beautiful like seeing all the variety stunning Did you end up submitting your your army tom? Yep Clint did you submit something? No, I um, I didn't even start unfortunately I looked at it and I went that would be really cool to do and then just never got there Yeah, I I did get the whirlwinds edge army photographed and submitted. I did send it in Then the next day they sent out a thing saying that you have to put your Your like on the last day at like 4 p.m. They put up a post like don't forget to put your email with this exact Subject line and I was like you didn't say that in any of the previous ones. I went and read the rules Uh, I mean my subject was close But I don't know they'll probably disqualify me because I have like the wrong sequence of words either way I wouldn't imagine I I expect nothing from it because again when you're talking about like a worldwide thing versus your local store There's people who do boards that are just incredible But I did want to share that I put a lot of effort into that board. It'll never go to a tournament probably Ever ever it's the best part about this. Yeah, I put the most ever into a board And uh, it'll probably never get a go to a tournament. So the fates are just punishing you. Yeah, I suppose I could share that out I'll share that out at some point. I never I never shared all the photos. So I'll do that this weekend That was a really good week on twitter and instagram Like in the run up to the deadline because everybody was after they'd submitted they'd put their pictures up So instagram feeds and twitter feeds were just like a magnificent hobby. So that's one win from it. Definitely. Absolutely what I do like about it is Ultimately Like it encourages a lot of people to do Really impressive stuff that gets shared around and since I haven't been getting to go to tournaments and see awesome Wormies much this year. Uh seeing it shared online was actually really awesome. So it made me very happy Uh, cool All right, what else we got? Uh, the broken realms fiction the stories continue on Yeah, the round they officially released the one that had went out in the email This last week Clint, did you get a chance to read the most recent story? I haven't no Sorry, uh, no, you're fine. It's okay. Uh, it is about nematarr or whatever the guy from the bloodsurf hunt Mr. Like, um, achillian king who with his with his shark bros And uh, it's like apparently he got half his face cut off. I forgot that this happened in the uh, in in the confrontation So he has half a face now and uh, it's he yeah, indeed It's uh, it's a rather fine little story and what was fun about it was It was him realizing that he's becoming nothing more than like the trained shark Like he is too Marathi and the witch elves as their Trained sharks are to them Right, it's sort of the realization of the story And it's basically them going up and down the charwind coast killing humans and elves to the man just obliterating towns and murdering everybody And uh, there's a real there's a nice little duel between him and a uh, uh, lumineath blade master That the lumineath does not come out on the top of so The bad, uh, yeah, but uh, it's a it's a fun little story. It was really like, oh No, they're going full on here. You know, uh, the like Marathi's, uh elves and the Idoneth are just Full on let's murder everybody and like they're just rolling through towns that were that were near anvil guard that were sort of in anvil guard's Spear of influence and they're just rounding up every man woman and child and killing them No mercy. No exceptions. Uh, it's pretty brutal Not even like taking souls for The idoneth or anything like that just like killing them all or uh, well the most of what you hear him talk about is no It's just like efficient killing like they just have to kill everybody Uh, part of the story does revolve around the fact that like the strongest souls get taken to Get captured by the witch elves and get sacrificed in blood rituals Like that's where they end up taking the the The blade lord or whatever who loses the duel Uh, who who gets count do kud in the story by the way like he's he's spinning around a sword And nematar like swings and sees an opening and cuts both of his hands off and he's like, uh, you know, it's yeah He gets count do kud. It's fun It's fun times It's a lot worse to happen in a fantasy universe. I suppose less chance of getting cybernetic placement hands, I guess Uh, anyways, uh, it was a fun story if fun is, uh Foreboding and showing of just like how far those two are willing to go Uh, they may be you know, some people have talked about them breaking off from order or having a real schism Or a furlough full on civil war and they do talk a lot in there about what do you think is gonna, you know Like the the blade lords like do you really think this is going to stop the wrath of the thunder god? Do you think the ruinous powers are going to not see this and come marching? Is your plan to throw the the witch elves or that is like the the the luminous is like Is your plan to throw the the witch elves in the way and run? From the ruinous powers and hope that they kill them first before they throw you in the way and run like both of like it's just Great commentary from the luminous sword master and I was like we need this unit. Where is the where are these guys? This dude's got it. He's got the number all right And anyway, uh, what's next? Uh, we had the white dwarf rules leak Yes for spiders a guppity. Goop. Goop. Goop. Oh, yeah, uh, tom, what do you think of spider rules? Um, I I think they're perfectly fine for what they are Um, I think like for those that thought that this was gonna like elevate them or something they don't Like it does elevate them. It just depends on what your goal was. I understand right Right, like it does not make them like super competitive. Like it does not solve a lot of the Um, the problematic situations You know present. Oh, sure. Sure So Yeah, uh, Clint did you get a chance to look over those spider rules? I haven't yet. I saw some discussion about it on twitter And I'll probably go and I'll read pdakkinson's breakdown on his blog at some point when he gets that up Just yeah digest it all for me peter and tell me what's good He the breakdowns are great. Absolutely Yeah, I mean it was cool. Like I like the abilities uh an army wide five up spell ignore is pretty great um The ability a command ability for retreat and charge is pretty great Like it was full of a lot of good stuff All right, um, all the battalions were good. I thought the abilities were solid So I think that my answer to what it is is if you were someone who really liked Spiders and and like this is your army if you're paul right in the comments right now, right? Like this was a glorious day for you right because you got a turn of new tools right the The uh, uh loon shrine can now restore half your units As by the way it always should have for all these armies like it should have just been If you're doing this then it restores half of this unit if you're doing this then it restores have this unit like that was It's taken us three white dwarf articles to patch this one ill written terrain piece, you know Uh, so all that's fine. I like that. I thought the battalions were all good They contained the stuff you would want them to contain they gave you abilities that I thought were really cool um, I particularly like the skitter strand one which allows your um your skitter strands to just You know teleport basically all over the place. That's what this means This means teleport all over the place and I'm I'm a big fan of giant teleporting spiders. I think that's pretty cool uh, so my answer is if I think the army was kind of dead in the water like you were really up against it if you were playing just spiders before this Whereas I think you're like you can have a perfectly fine fun game, right and Yeah, you're right. You're not going to like 5-0 tournaments or something but if you're just looking for like a nice solid game with uh, you're You know with your friends. This is going to deliver. You'll have some options I don't know that. I even agree with that. Um, I mean what I would say is this I No matter how you look at it. You're still up against a wall With the spider war scroll You're talking about the little guys, right that your base. Yes. Yes. You're always throwing Like good money after bat Because the war scroll is just terrible like there's just not like it's just not a good war scroll because Even if you want to say the bite is great on the spiders They're one inch reach on a cav base Like so like you like you're always going to struggle to make use of the small riders The people who are wanting to play spider armies aren't looking for that Like they're going to be happy with this and and feel like I understand that I understand that but I like at the end of the day This like the problems that are that exist here are still the same problems Like even in a world where Like heaven forbid spiders went down to like 80 points Max unit size of 20 in a horde cost of 300 Right. So you're getting like 40 wounds for 30 points or for 300 points right 40 wounds 300 points 20 monos Even in that world which seems like really aggressive. That means that you're getting 10 wounds 10 wounds of mounted cav spiders for 80 points, right? That seems aggressive because they have like mount attacks and goblin attacks and then Archer attacks Even then your your only hope is to bury them in wounds You know to take like 160 wounds of normal spider riders and then back by rafter ox um and it and they and they still wouldn't be like They're still going to struggle against most armies because like if you lose activation you lose the unit every time what it's most is an interesting it exposes an interesting challenge in the game which is uh That what ultimately ends up Uh Making units into winners is one of two is is the ability to defend actually And right when you think of you and I know some people might say yeah, but what about you know Uh, all the ranged units that are very dominant right now my argument would be they are that's the ultimate defense You can project your power where you don't risk anything in return, right? When I can when I can just throw fire on you or something There's no reprisal with no reprisal. That's sort of the ultimate defense, right? Yeah, you are immune to melee. Congratulations Right when you're not in melee. Yeah, it's a good. It's a good plan. It really is. Um The now that and you know ultimately like glass cannon units are just tough. They're tough in the game But anyway, like I said, I I do believe that they will be uh It's a good addition Uh, I thought it was fun if I didn't find spiders to be, you know, totally creepy I would be all about it. So there you go Somebody had asked me how I would how I would fix them The answer is is it requires a war scroll rewrite and I think actually the right answer, honestly Is what I just proposed 8300 for for 20 models Because that like a 20 model spider unit is completely unwieldable like that's just it's super unwieldy But you know what at 300 points I would take like three of those You know and then some msu or two of those and some msu Yeah, I just I hate that answer and I don't like getting in the the flood race The right answer would be you just up the spiders a little like you can you can make cab worth it We have cabins that are worth it Right, right, but they're nothing like these cab like you'd have to like double their stats in order to make them worth it I mean, it wouldn't honestly take that much work But at any rate perhaps a discussion for another time. Oh, well, we'll fix get we'll fix gets at some point in the future Uh All right Cool, and then Look, I'm glad the spiders got their article. Congratulations But next month's white dwarf. I'm stealing the next news item right from you tom Uh, because the because the most important thing to come out of this month's white dwarf Was nothing in this month's white dwarf. It was next month sons of behemoth. That's right folks next month We're getting some sun stuff. I'm excited could be battalions Could be a new sub faction this army could be add decent sub faction That doesn't make me make awful trade-offs for no for no reason Away from actually being you know good Uh and fun Uh So I'm excited about that Um Anything they could give me battalions. Yes new sub faction big. Yes New list of artifacts good a new war scroll of a shaman giant. Hey, I'm in for that Whatever, you know the sky's the limit could be anything when it was just fine. It could be a boat Yes, somebody just sitting it could be about the comments as I was doing that. Yes Uh, so I'm uh, I'm excited Uh, Clint, what do you think of the giants? What are you hoping for out of a giant article? I I've only ever lost to them so far. So I I have unfortunately had to play them in things like shifting objectives where three big giants get on the objectives And then you fight like hell to try and call it back I yeah I I actually think they're okay, and I know that's not Oh, no, I think they're quite competitive. Yeah. Yeah, my issues never been competitive. I think they're quite competitive But I didn't realize they didn't have any battalions Because I've never read the book themselves. No And now once you once you said battalions, I went, you know, I don't think I've ever heard anyone talk about them Then that's why so, um, yeah, that probably wouldn't hurt something to I would just like a sub faction that didn't make me make outrageous choices in things like my one artifact And my one command rate and my one ability I get a sub faction Where like none of the things I actually want to play are all in the same one You can I get I get one thing per that's really the the the pain of playing the army is that you're like Oh, you want one thing from here and one thing from here and one thing from here because those are the only three good things in the book Uh, at any rate, we could fix that I hope we do Thumbs up can't wait for January Uh, let's make it happen Uh, all right Cool, uh, okay anything and I believe that's all the news, right Tom Yep, so we awesome. All right, notating the time. Let's talk about some pick of the week Tom, what would you like to share with everybody for pick of the week? I got nothing. Oh, okay. Good good stuff. Good stuff. Tom. You're really You're coming through strong there Clint. What would you like to share with everybody for pick of the week? Um, I would like to share a youtube channel called behind closed doors He is uh based in melbourne. He's only a little guy. He's only got probably a dozen videos Uh, but he does some aos content and a bit of retro stuff some green bases for you vince. Um, So yeah, he's gone through and done some some videos on you know painting character on and Some plague bearers and things like that and then he does Sort of if you don't want to sit there and watch him Paint the entire skeleton or the entire plague or whatever he does shorts of specific things like Painting yellow on a shield or something and it'll go through and he sort of like Pulls that out of the tutorial and goes through that quickly and things like that. So Yeah, I think I The more people that sort of jump on and support him You know, he'll just keep doing content So fantastic. I like it. Uh, well, it's going to be an all australian episode Uh, because uh, my pick of the week is for your coast on down under sigmar Which is uh, which is coach aos coach and he did a show recently with luke stone around harcuron That I thought was really fun. Uh, I know there's some big harcuron fans out there people who are really excited about what this army Uh allows for as far as building goes. I know there's some folks in the chat right now who are pretty excited about it And he and luke did a whole show about it. So uh, check it out. It's real good Uh, so there you go Okay Cool All right Well, let's talk about some hobby time. All right hobby time Clint even you had a chance to work on anything. Did you have anything to get painted for the tournament? Uh, no, I'm taking obr and I had sort of finished them a couple of weeks ago Just sort of been working through them. Recently. I sort of hurt my hand So I haven't been able to paint but so I've been doing a ton of assembly Um over on my on my twitch stream on a tuesday night and uh this week I've been building corn slaves to darkness. So, okay, okay Now traditional slaves to darkness like what are we building here? Get get me get me and then mix here I bought the I bought the star collecting box So I went these models are all awesome and then looked over at a pile of corn bits I had Um and thought right out. I'll paint them red. So I've been um You know converting the lord on karkatrack to hold the there's the big corn symbol standard that you get in the rathmongers box Yeah, yeah, you know that kind of looks like a standard kind of looks like an axe I can Hang on Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yes. Oh, that's great. That's great. So He's still kind of satisfies the war scroll, but he's got that corn touch to him and the head And I like I've not gone crazy, but um just that just working my way through that box pretty much at the moment um Oh that that head swap and that like that changed that giant Corn axe symbol thing was fantastic that really made that dude it made that dude feel like a completely different sculpt That's good. Yeah, that came out. Well, I dig that awesome Uh, all right, tom, what about you man? You've been working on anything? Dwarves all right How goes that how goes the dwarven the dwarven fight slow or do you how much more do you have to do? It's an easy answer I suppose we got a visual aid that Now is that all just like pop-up work basically like finishing stuff out? Uh, yeah, it looks like at least painted. Yeah, there's paint on so almost all of it Like there's a couple of don't have paint on it. Um, but uh, yeah, so I mean like it's just it's stuff that needs to be done um Like and I I have other dwarves like I have other tins of dwarves that need to be done Um, but that's what I have for right now. Okay. Got it um Yeah, do you have an end state for this army in mine? Like are you just gonna keep going until you're like me with scavin where you're just Cracking 10 000 points and you keep going Yeah, I mean like I I've bought everything that I want. Okay. Does that make sense like so there's not any Like I don't know that there's any Like I don't know there's anything that I need that I don't already have Okay, that makes sense. It does. Yeah, sure. Sure. Sure. Uh, Maybe another ironclad because you only have one ironclad right now, right? Uh, yeah, I only have one ironclad um But I mean in general like I have Like I have one of each. Uh, I have a one frigate one ironclad. I have Uh, two gun haulers um And so yeah, like I think I have most of what I want Okay, fair enough. I'm just saying you got to get like the second ironclad feels like the the only part of the investment You should go for it. I mean if you don't have two big boats, what are you doing with your life? Um, I don't disagree It's it's it's a scary amount of firepower. Although admittedly not probably the competitive choice Um, I mean like yeah Yeah I get it. I have what I'm gonna run like I have like 35 thunders So I have like way more than I'm ever gonna run of everything So like maybe boats are the only thing that I would really need um But other than that, like I'm really happy happy with everything that I have. Okay, so good Uh, well speaking of uh going to excess Uh, I'm just working on uh, these little guys here Uh with more of them here because I'm working on another exalted chariot Uh, so this would be my I just I Yeah, I've I've made up. I realized I still had the parts for another exalted chariot I was just looking through my slowness stuff like taking an inventory to see Kind of what extra bits and stuff I had in preparation for thinking about the the coming army, right? I had to do so you want you want you got it before you're starting a new project You got to get the bits organized to see what you got extra for conversions You know that kind of pre-planning and as I was looking through there. I realized I still had an extra Exalted chariot basically And I was like, okay. Well, I guess I'll just build that then so because those are I people complain about those I don't get it. They're not Hard like I I actually didn't build it according to the standard instructions. I just kind of built my own version of it and uh It's fine It's it's a very easy kit to put together and the chariot itself is like the easiest paint job in the world It took me less than five minutes to paint the the chariot. It's these stupid Antier horses and and the girls on top that take the time the chariot itself is fine um So at any rate, uh, yeah, I'm gonna have that uh done up and uh, you know Why why not have more exalted chariots? They're they're really good Uh and great heroes in what I suspect will be the both the current and new world As they hid that's kind of sweet spot uh, yeah Plus I do want to be able to run kind of the all chariot force Uh type of thing if I if I want to go the direction because that's just fun All right gentlemen With that being said Shall we turn? To our main topic. All right Let's talk about vampires Okay So vampires. Let's see hold on. I gotta switch our images here To do to do there we go. All right Switching over to vampires We have this little spoiler. I have this the warhammer underworlds warband roadmap 2021 up on the screen in which we notice that here in march We've got Some exciting stuff here on the screen in that we have this very cool Swashbuckly looking figure With this very vampire-y like symbol underneath it Uh, it seems to match up to the rumor engine. We've got a dual cutlass or saver wielding Death vampire-y looking symbol thing here Okay So Let's start with the first do we all agree that there is clearly some kind of vampire it Underworlds warband in march. Is that what this is? Let's start there clint. What do you think? I think it's probably 95 percent chance 90 yeah 95 98 I'm not gonna go certain. Okay But um, yeah pretty good chance Right on tom Yes, there is 100 percent a warband coming that is vampires Ring a ding ding. I'll predict a thing lock it in now pick of the week. That's right. Here's the call It's absolutely vampires this warband. I'm just I'm a hundred percent on this one I have no doubt in my mind. This is what's coming. It is going to be sweet They're going to be swashbuckling. They're going to be buckling swashes. It's going to be fantastic I am very excited Yeah, I think that like the outline the the symbol the everything points towards Uh death pirates Right, right absolutely Here's what really makes me think that uh that it's not just scourged privateers or something in that there would be Uh, then uh, first of all, there'd be a dominance of order factions Here but also you'd get back-to-back Order factions Right and you would Whereas if this is death and this is death, right? Then things kind of balance out a little better over the whole thing Uh, because we had a sort of destruction heavy previous time through so All right Okay, so we all agree We're definitely in march or 95 percent sure Getting vampirates. We're we're that's where we're at pretty sure pretty sure if we average it out We're at like 98 and a half percent on vampirates between the three of us. Okay. Okay Next question Here we go Are we getting a whole? vampire Release doesn't have to necessarily be in march by the bite like sometimes these things are months off But are we getting a vampire release? Near this let's call it in the first half of next year. How about that? Okay uh that Just that is the army this warband belongs to Be it vampires of some kind doesn't have to be vampires. This just can be vampires of any kind Clint what's your what's your odds on this one? What what are you booking me for the odds on this? Um, I think it's Fairly likely that we will get some sort of vampire release like like you said I don't I don't know if vampirates is a big enough design space to flesh out an army with okay. Okay Just off the top mate without expanding it into Undead sailors wraith fleet kind of stuff So But we could that could be what we're getting but i'm also not sure whether they just want to rehash You know vampire coast from The old world right so well, I mean if we get them we're gonna get the uh Whatever it's called i'm looking for my firestorm book the stuff from firestorm Like if we get the wraith fleet like it will be a full-on wraith fleet release if we get it Okay, yeah, that's what i'm thinking I submit to you Here we go ringa ding ding. I predict another thing which is that we are definitely getting this army. I'm locking it in now Okay, here it is 100 percent. I'm on for this. Let me talk about why I'm gonna tell you why okay Why they've already told you that this is happening. Okay first Underworld's warbands without an associated army are rare not unprecedented It happens sure but rare so that's already a strike in the favor. Okay, sure two Remember earlier when I mentioned you kind of said the order of azir thing Yeah, okay And I mentioned that we already got that Okay, yes. Yep. Yep. All right So we all remember our friend van brecht Right, right, right. Okay. So van brecht who is the uh, who is out of Broken realms morathe. Yep He has his like little special censure ability whatever I want to call it So he has a lord veritont. Okay. Yep. That's what's relevant there The normal lord veritont has this little ability called sanction Okay, and what sanction does is in your hero phase you can pick one enemy wizard within seven inches This model and roll a dice on a four plus that enemy unit suffers d3 mortal wounds Okay, fine. Who cares. Yep. Like most people don't play lord veritons I just wanted to give you the groundwork of what the ability is it normally sanctions Wizards right because veritons are kind of wizard hunters Van brecht however is different his works against uh, a much broader selection of enemies Like if you if you actually play with van brecht himself as the named character in his battalion His sanction ability works against uh, like not just wizards, but all Like chaos I think is what the generic thing is so it's way expanded out But it also works against vampires key worded Okay, okay That is very specific to just quite throw in there as a bonus thing There are not that many vampire keywords in this game right now. Just to just to point that out. Okay True. It's true. Okay So as soon as I saw that I was like, all right. All right. That's interesting. Go on. Yeah Now Next up at the end of the broken realms story I won't have spoiler week. I mean, I already threw away a bunch of spoilers earlier for that story So whatever you're welcome to it. It's been out like a month and a half. I'm sorry. We're past the window um the At the end of that story You get something that very much seems to be a vampire Carve its way through this a bunch of pirate that yes that the a bunch of um Scourge privateers that are holding van brecht Right and makes like very short work of of that And they describe the thing as like this cold presence with big Wings and piercing red eyes, right? But this sort of malign intelligence that frees van brecht and then like just disappears into the night Yep, right Which there's nothing more appropriate in a story There's nothing more appropriate in a story than to have the vampire hunter get rescued by a vampire, right? Like that is the exactly the type of story that g w loves Sure. Okay. Sure. Yep. Okay And I don't think they were throwing out that that's like a whole little page of that story If they didn't mean to signal something through that narrative They could have just said because anybody could have rescued van brecht. Yeah, they could have at anyone or anything Rescue him. Yep, right But they purposefully cast this like just enough information To to sort of tell you it's a vampire without anything else the combined with the fact that um That he has vampires on his freaking scroll as a keyword. I was like, yep lock it in This is happening folks. Like there's no way all of that is just pointing at another wonderful catch. It's a great catch. Yeah So this is my evidence um Okay, cool beans So let's assume for the rest of our discussion that we're gonna get this This army, okay. Let's just let's just say this is real All right, and we'll we'll go from there Okay, it's a great hypothetical Get sure. I mean, I feel I feel like it's the necessary assumption for the rest of this show But that's all right. Let's me just stop there. This would be a really weird show if we were like, are we getting vampires? Nope All right, thanks everybody. Bye. Good night. No, I mean like that would just be the strangest show we've ever done um okay All right and yes Kairos has said how the vampire killed the elf was gnarly kind of deserved it after anvil guard Yes, I agree That scourge privateer was way too full of himself and uh, he just it does not end well for him Uh, so there you go. Okay, cool beans. So let's assume the army's happening Uh, I brought up a picture now of one of my favorite units of all time, which is the coven throne I think this is still one of the coolest models. They've ever made the three chilling vampire ladies on like the pillows Uh, that are stuffed with like organs and entrails Uh, writing on a a giant throne Lifted up by spirit ghost knights is one of the cooler ideas they've ever had um But at any rate, uh, so What do we want out of a vampire release? So this army is real. That's what we're assuming Clint. Yep, you mentioned it kind of already. What do you think a full army looks like for this? Sketch me out high level. What's this kind of look like to you? Well, it I have differing ideas depending on whether it's full vampires or just a vampire release really sure You go either way you want no go whichever way you want Yeah, because there's a lot of people who love soul blight stuff, uh around the world and uh, Especially in australia. There's there's some big soul blight proponents who desperately want plastic blood knights um But I think if you were going you would almost have like if you're going soul blight you would almost have some sort of weird um I think it'd be too similar to flesh eater courts. Just they wouldn't be Delusioned, right? So you would have your vampire like you'd have your king your vampire lord And then you'd have your vampire knights and then you'd have your sort of men at arms who might be Skeletons or zombies or you know Thralls or something like that or even just Given the way that everything co-exists in shyish. They might be humans, you know and you start It looks a little bit like a britannian army at point two vampirets we've got like You've got your you know Pirate raiders whether they'd be zombies or skeletons once again We've seen that I've built a vampirets army Which used corset bits and skeletons to to be all my skeleton warriors and You've got I wonder if they would do a boat based vaguely on the coven throne or something like that Yep, and then you've got your you've got to have your pirate captain You know But He's probably going to be an infantry model. I can't I can't say no to a vampire plastic infantry model Because we don't have one of those yet Swashbuckler or not. It's still going to be pretty cool um, and then some sort of like Leviathan from the deep or something like that, you know, we've got so many stories of Gyre sharks and crackens and all sorts of stuff From the story so far on the ocean you can imagine one of those being raised As the centerpiece for the army and you know four or five war scrolls and you're pretty much done Yep. Yep. Yep. Yeah. Okay. Okay. All right. So they're the two options I which honestly like so so sub question then clan for you. Yep Is it vampires or not in your mind? As I as I sort of flesh out the non vampire option It seems incredibly generic. So I'm going to go with vampires Yeah, the the other one's too too generic It's been done before they literally like fleshy the courts is pretty much that but slightly different So, yeah vampires, right on tom. Yep. Let's just look like to you. What do you want to see out of this release? Uh, I need a boat Okay We need an actual ship Yeah Like a big dead ship like an old rotten wraith ship. Yep. Yep. Yep. Okay All right Anything else or just that like literally this release is just a big boat terrain piece and you're like, yeah, I'm good Thank you. This is the best release ever Underworld's warband in a boat for time. That's it. That's it. It's done Yep Is this vampire it's tom or is it or is it more traditional soul blight? vampires Um I think it's vampires. Okay Okay I'm about 70 percent church vampires. Okay. Uh, any other units you think you'd want to see? Um I want to see some monstrous stuff mixed in with the pirates. Yeah, sure. Sure. Sure. So maybe like now How monstrous because let's consider Oh, like varghists, right? So varghists are one of the like seven models in this game that have the vampire keyword right now Right, right. Um, are those monstrous enough or more monstrous? Because those are like mid-sized monsters, right like they're human-esque Is that is that monstrous or not monstrous enough is that what's in your head? Yeah, I think that's what's in my head Okay, something. Yeah, like yeah, that's I think that's what's in my head. Okay. Yeah, right on Uh, yeah for me, I think it's absolutely a I I think it is Vampirates But I don't think all of the units are pirate Units Sure, I would agree with that. Yep. What I mean by that is crab people. What's that? I think there's some crab people. Oh, wow, crab people. I think the big crab arm is not Belonging to a pirate model. I know what rumor engine you're referencing. There's like a big Crab arm that we haven't seen what it belongs to yet Uh, but I I think it's just gonna be a one of the big dumb arms from one of the slang or Because they all have old school Crab arms anyways, but I don't know who knows. Um My argument would be it wouldn't surprise me if you saw Something like a redone blood knights Okay, like I like a plastic blood knight kit Yep, but they just literally ride on the ships and then and then ride forth to to you know to go off the ship and attack, right? Uh, Because also in broken realms there's a part where uh, where Slenesh's fleet shows up To to to attack in the rear the eideneth and the scourge privateer fleet, right? And Slenesh's fleet Literally just has chariots on it like the boats land and then the chariots just come exploding out of the side of the ship So if we can put giant chariots, you know, sythe with sything Bladed chariots on ships. We can we can put uh, we can put blood knights on ships or whatever, right? Yep I to me, I think the high level of this army is absolutely like The more wraith fleet type of of thing, but it's led by This vampire lord. I think they don't go pure Swashbuckly pirates the caribbean because I think you're right plant that they don't want to just copy like what was in uh Warhammer total warhammer whatever that game was called. Yeah, yep, and uh I think that what you'll see is like I think they'll do a vampire infantry type unit Then it'll just be armored type guys. They love these types of models Like it's clear that the sculptors love making these like these Sort of taken in fives elite infantry, right? Like the look at the new twin souls or pain bringers and slenesh I mean look at most of the model units that are sort of the flagship model units. They've made in the past seven years Right go back to the end times and look when they did when they did blikings and when they did wrathmongers and skull reapers And you know, you can go on and on. This is the type of stuff brutes You know, which came out when they did iron jaws, right and thunderers Like there's not that they'd never make that the standard more traditional like 10 or 30 guys in a unit Units because they do Right, right, but they really love making those elite infantry units now They do like the sculptors clearly love it You you don't need to craft 10 individual dudes. You craft five really cool dudes Right, right, and I I would suspect that's a lot more Valuable to them. Yeah The So I think you'll get like an elite infantry like that I think you will get some kind of thralls. I don't know what that is But like they'll need they'll probably need some kind of mass thing. Yep And I My big question becomes do they just also fold in all the existing vampire stuff? Like I said, there's about seven war scrolls in the game that Have the vampire keyword right now like both the the vampire lord on Those guys and vampire lord on foot any any permutation of vampire lord obviously does And then like var geists and the coven throne and the other Version of the coven throne the blood seeker palanquin or whatever those are basically the vampire scrolls um Do you think that they'll bring in stuff from other ranges like other ranges within the death Faction so things like spirit hosts and stuff You can imagine like a tide of spirits following these guys around or something like that You know like it's hard to say whether they would yet fold in stuff that isn't vampires that you can currently Use but can kind of work in the narrative I think here's my argument I say yes, they will and they'll fold in all that stuff But under like not not ghost. Sorry. I apologize. I said this wrong way. They'll fold in all the existing vampires That stuff though like spirit hosts. They'll just have allies is like the rest of death, right? So if you want to you think that like blood knights are going to be in there Yeah, yeah, I mean, I think you'll I think there'll be some kind of new Thing that will replace the existing blood knight kid. Yes, I do Um and those wonderful bat swarms. Oh, yes, thank you. Yeah, dan mentioned cough nepharata. Yes, obviously a nepharata Also says the vampire king. Yeah Uh, and and there was some other mortar don't remember his name probably no one of consequence Yeah, I got the shirt on don't worry can't talk vampires that we're in the shed. Absolutely Yeah, I mean somebody said what do we think I saw maybe this coach who'd asked in the comments like, um You know, what will the mortars be or what would the mortar be? I mean, it's just manfred and and nepharata and if they're feeling real saucy they'll introduce a third new Mortar and that's the one who will lead a lot of the like Um, uh, we have somebody has more talk of the event. Hold on. That's like of the deep seas um Uh, we have this we have more talk of the abyss and it is I know somebody's gonna call it out um In the chat if you know who who i'm uh, uh, luther harkin is more talk of the abyss I thought he's dead. I was just about say isn't he dead? Um Was he was he in the original like in the end times then he blew up Whatever uh, I'm I'm on the wiki so I don't know but he is technically more talk of the abyss sure Yeah, yeah. Oh, by the way Yes, I do know that somebody mentioned in the comments that the like the ghoul kings Are do you have the vampire keyword? Yes, you're right. I'm not counting them because they're already fleshier courts, right? So I'm just right excusing them from this conversation but yes the the There because their descendants of the carrion king who was a sort of maddened vampire Yeah, I mean what I'll say is this like I think they could go one of two ways they could either They go one of three ways. Sorry either You're gonna get an all-new pirate like heavy pirate themed army That's really like leaning the pitching right down to the middle of like pirates And if that happens, I think we get an entirely new range I think it'll be limited, but I think we get an entirely new range And I think it'll be classed as the uh, the wraith flee like it. So it'll be that thing. Okay Okay, so that's pitching down the middle I think what's probably more likely is we get a recast Vampire line That is predominantly Um, like traditional bat vampires Okay I mean a small sub faction of the bat vampires are the wraith flee Okay, do you do you think like a like how Sort of soblight has bloodlines so to speak would that be like one of the offshoots? Yeah Yes, you'd get wraith flee and then you'd have like and then each of the mortar So it could be a reimagined basically legions of negoshpa where each of the heads of the Um bloodlines are different mortars. Yeah, yeah 100 percent. That's exactly what I'm pitching. Yes. Yeah, and so That's the more likely and then the third possibility And this is the one that I I love But it will never happen is you get a nefrada new lamnia release um, which is all Like vampires mixed with like the tomb kings aesthetics, which won't happen. Sure. I mean her realm is called nefrateria or whatever, but sure No, new lamnia is the is the is where she reigns Her her realm in shahish. Whatever. It doesn't matter. We'll we'll it's fine. I don't want to get to the argument Uh, it's okay. I'm right. Um, but what I would say is that uh the But I think that it's probably going to be this pitch down the middle and if we do get any wraith fleet kits Like it'll just be like a ship and then like a dual kit So it'll be a small subdivision Portion of the larger line that gets released and it'll be all vampires and a bunch of different bloodlines So maybe we get a special um Here we go. Maybe you get a dual kit at the ship and the mortar or the abyss is on one of the ships So you get like a named like the name flagship and then you get a generic ship as your ship kit and then you get a like some type of pirate dual kit like you know like seaman Uh dual kit and then you get That's your new releases for harken or for this thing and that's how you get a new mortar And then the other two mortars end up filling in the other two bloodlines Something like that. Here's here's my here's my my argument for what this looks like. You ready? Geats This is this is geats. Okay. Here's what I mean Not the same exact book. I'm not saying that When you look at what they did with geats, right? Uh, they geats kind of has four major factions within it, right? Your regular geats your Trolls your little red balloons and Which most people call squigs and your spiders. Yeah Yeah, okay, and they all kind of got their own Release their own abilities their own attention their own stuff and eventually through articles They realized they needed to build each of them out a little more and so on and so forth, right? But it's it's you know, it's all one army But they can be taken as a singular force or all together, right? And you look at about the amount of new releases that that because it was a lot of really squig focused stuff Right like a lot of the new stuff was with squiggy type based right and I understand there was also new rock trolls and the new dank hold and stuff like that But at the same time you got like the double version of the new squiggy knights, you know The new hoppers and your and the bounders you got your little snufflers who are still kind of like that, right that sort of thing Uh along and and so on and so forth Yeah, um, I feel like this is the same exact thing where The release is kind of like they go. Well, here's what we've got It's it's not really enough and it's mixed up with all this other junk that it shouldn't be part of right, right? And instead we're going to take it to uh the broader That like into into its own thing into its own soul light thing and have the three factions exactly what You kind of like exactly as we kind of talked about there, right? So you've got manfred kind of of the knight you've got uh nefarada who's more of the pure like Blood blood and stuff like that and they probably put like the blood dragons and stuff under her You know, they're sort of in the book. They're kind of their own thing And or maybe they go up under manford or maybe they're just the generic cab that's kind of you know across the board, right? right and Then you've got this new thing which is the the wraith fleet, right and that has its own new more tark and there you go And that's that's the model for it And what they release is a little bit But then mainly on the new thing, right? So you get kind of this t-shaped the sideways t-shaped release, right? Couple releases for the existing stuff to refresh a kid or two like we got refreshed um And you could get new zombies, right? Like you get new zombies or new like not new skeletons probably but you could probably get new zombies with this sure sure Which is like the tentacle guy that we saw like shambling through That could potentially be what we were looking at there with the halloween preview um and To me that feels much more coherent as a force, right? In the same way that like then you can mix everything up that just feels like the contours of a release they do Right. Yeah, like and it's expandable It it dips into the current line. It basically provides a soft reboot of legions of the gash Yeah, yeah, it would just it would be the yeah, exactly It would be their soft reboot of that book Pulling out the last big piece into the thing people have actually wanted to see out of that book Right. Yep. Like so the question is do we get new lomnia kits with that release as well? Uh, oh like we'll define what you mean Well, and so here's the question like do we get so we have on one hand we have rightfully so we have this like new mortar and a bunch of pirate pirate Vampirates, yep So we have a bunch of other vamps, right? We have two other factions Like let's say the aesthetics for um for Night the legion of night is roughly batty Like the standard kind of Yeah, traditional transylvania type of yeah, exactly. It's castlevania aesthetics. Um So do we get so like i'm assuming we get like foot vamps and heavy armor or something I don't know like people have been begging for that junk for years So we'll probably get some other like some plastic vampires. That's fine. Yeah. Um, and again, this is exactly the type of kit They love to make Yes, so then the question is this Do we then get so like we know we probably get releases for legion of blood or legion of night and legion of divas Um, would we get something for new lomnia then in her aesthetics? I Don't think so. No I guess it depends on what you mean by in her aesthetics But my answer would be like how many kits are we looking at? four new kits For the the rayfleet side And then like one to two prefer gets for everything else That's my one to two Refresh kits So you're talking a total like what you've just named is like a six to eight kit release Yes, which is about what kits was wasn't it? Yep. It's exactly right But they also had old kits to rely on what are the old kits that these vamps are relying on Well, both vampire the the vampire lord on Insert monster here, right those those kits are plastic. They're still great. They're sure vampire lord on zombie dragon and They're right Okay Again, still a plastic kit still relatively modern and still quite beautiful by the way Right, and you could technically make the mortise engine of empire too. Like there's nothing like it's a dude in a robe Who knows what you know what he is? Sure. I I don't think that is right flight A bit hotter than yeah, sure Uh, the var guys obviously stick around Right because they are they are part of a still existing kit Right, like they're a build out of a kit that's currently being sold in a death army. So they're vampy. Yep And again, they're modern plastic kits that are quite Quite beautiful and and don't need remade or retouched Obviously neffy and manfred themselves, right? Both of them are still that's right. They're staying the mortar kit is still solid No issue there at all. Okay Uh Then yeah, I think that's it for your existing Well, you have a vampire lord on foot Um that they can keep I'm really hoping they just throw that guy in the trash. I was purposely not counting him It's a it's a fine cast model in strash So that if they were going to redo this with a focus on vamps, they're gonna do a plastic Vampire on foot. Yeah, I mean it just feels like it has to happen Now that might be in the inevitable box set The the dual box, right? Right like you're telling me that these guys happen And they don't show up in a dual box at some point with a new vampire on foot hero. That's how that happens Uh, so what is yes, they'll keep the vampire on foot fine cast and then they'll release the plastic in the dual box Um, and basically as the replace sculpt just like that. It was the squig the squig, uh, boss Um, okay, so here's the question then so you predicted probably like the oh by the way the dire wolves because that's also a plastic kit the Okay The weird dead wolves got it. So you predicted for Revamped or four. Sorry for wraith fleet Okay, so what are those four kits? Because that's a bold claim Uh, well, let me start with the other ones first actually because I think I'd rather flesh out my prediction on the other ones first So the other ones are remade infantry remade blood knights Right. Okay. Um, I think you're I think you could be obviously right on something like um They would redo Like a minion Type kit probably one to two minion type kits. I don't know if that means bats or some kind of new bat-ish monster or a bat thing Like redoing that I doubt it'd be bat swarms, but it could be like a new kind of fell bat or something like that, right? Um, and then it or or and or zombies Okay Because that just fills out your those existing ones with the the new stuff Yeah Now with the the wraith fleet side, um, you're going to have a Your kits are going to be I I don't think you'll get a vote. Let me just say that Like I would love it if we did But I honestly don't think you do. I think you'll just get that aesthetic. Okay. And by the way, I'm not counting the The underworld's warband is one of these four kits. I'm just calling that a bird. No, that's a bonus nacho Yeah, yeah, that's yeah, cool. So we've got the that's your little skirmishing piratey kit Okay, so you're gonna have a group of you're gonna have your foot pirate pirate foot vamp vamp pirates Yes, like just with cutlasses and pistols and stuff like that like that's Going to be one of the kits. Yep, right? You'll have a captain for that group, right? You'll have a vampire lord Okay, you'll have the more Tark itself right, uh, which so the new more Tark of the abyss or whatever, right? And uh, you'll probably get a pretty Scenic-looking more Tark in some way Yeah, rather than he's gonna be on the prowl of a boat Yeah, I was just thinking that if he's not on a boat, how will they make the more Tark the centerpiece model? Which is what they do in death. Sure. So yeah, it is the centerpiece model. Uh, my argument would be they're going to have it they'll do a A diorama type piece with like it up on a big pile of treasure or something like that, you know boat boat um Okay, go on it's a boat. That's three kits. Okay, sure. Well, let's it's let's say let's give you the lore on the boat That's fine, right? And they do they do kid it as then just a normal boat Okay, sure. That's fine Um, that's still only three kits. I'll I'll I'll grant you that like I'm not gonna yeah Yeah, I'm not gonna try to and then the fourth kit Uh, I have no idea. I don't I don't know. I don't know what the fourth kit would be But it feels like there would be another one. I just I'm not sure what it is Maybe this is where the monstrosity comes in Right, but I don't think you want to make a sea creature because that's gonna be too like a dead sea creature Because that's going to be too much in eidneth's realm Okay, and they don't want to duplicate that aesthetic Yeah, but it does It does depend on what a sea creature it is Of this whole abomination Well, yeah, like it could be some kind of abomination like a like a an octopus cracking like Monster thing because that's not really territory that the eidneth trod tread in other than obviously the hero for one in all Lotan, but that's kind of the only You know oct octopus push ish like thing So you could you could get into that cracking type space pretty easy Yeah, so there you go. That's that's something some kind of monster or something like it huge flesh grafted crab mutated abyssal thing Sure, we don't have a lot of crab stuff yet. Go ahead, Glenn The the issue with the crab is that that's um vampire coast in total war two That's because there's the crab in there. It's just and I've got I think they've got that What is it called? There's the big like thing that's made out of like a mast and yeah, there's the big walking like shift gone Yeah, it has a name that escapes me and it's just like well are they gonna lean into that or You know want it to be its own thing and if they start pinching too many ideas from it then it's just You know, I think aesthetically I think that they are going to want to evoke that Like they will steal some of the ideas I don't think all of them, but I think that like they it will be enough to like draw the eye of potential customers Who who who who had a hankering for those things again? I don't think it'll be a straight rip off But I think that there will be some aesthetics that will bleed it. I do Yeah, okay, okay Right on But all in all like that I mean So like let's walk through so if you look at some version of the kits. I just laid out Doesn't that feel like a reasonable release? Like that feels like A couple kits like like what I mean, like there's nothing to distinguish new lomnie event like zero From uh From the legion of blood. Sure. I mean when you look at goblins, you know the gets re-release I don't remember the exact number of kits they have but I want to say it was about eight off the top of my head uh Well, like or i'm counting There I am counting double builds. Okay, so okay. No, so hold on. Hold on. Hold on. So, uh, you have the fanatic double build Yep, that's just one. Yep. You have uh, the hopper double build. Yep. That's two You have the uh, the loon king Yeah, sure. Oh, yeah. Yeah new new actual loon boss and new guy on giant cave squig that came in the in the box Right. Uh, gobble palooza. Yeah, sure Um, you had uh snufflers Yep Um, you have the cold and rock trolls Dank hold rock trolls. Yep So that's 10 scrolls and Or was that eight kits seven kits because I was counting scrolls. So, yeah Uh, or 10 scrolls. Sorry seven kits or something like that eight kits Yep, uh, and then yeah, and so oh, yeah, the new manglars. There you go. Thank you. And of course new new manglars, right So, I mean what I would say is that we had A number of kits like it was a very large release. It's probably the largest new kit release we've ever had But there were four distinct sub factions that didn't really play well with others in there Um, you had squigs you had Foot grots where none of their buffs stacked like with squigs like they're completely distinct Uh, you had you had spiders and you had trolls and none of none of that stuff overlapped Sure. So you had four distinct factions. Um, I think we could go get I think we could get three distinct factions here Yeah, I I don't agree. I think that's right I think you'll still have the ability to put them all together, of course, obviously It's just you know, how much of an overlap are you getting? So, yeah, I mean if you look at slanash, it's about 10 kits not counting the the underworld's or van the mortal slanash, right? So clearly geitz was a little more it was like in the 10 11 kit area uh, so the um So, I mean clearly you might be right like I I hope I'm missing a few that would be great I I think that'd be even I mean like My point is with that eight I would feel like we had a coherent army Okay, now something that phalanx said in the comments. I think is good is um You know, they want to leverage the popular aspects of that game to attract crossover They recently raised a faction of marines In 40k from the games to a more prominent status and gw knows how popular total warhammer is and how many people it brought to the game It feels like this would be a good way to capitalize on that which I don't disagree with That's ultimately why I think this is I I don't remember how long ago those vampires came out in total war It's been a while. Yes um But like clearly they would have known about it coming to the game before it actually launched live in the game, right? And I could easily see them going. Okay. This is a thing we know is launching in the video game You know, it seems like it's going to be popular. Cool. Cool. November November 2018 There you go And so it feels like the kind of cycle time that they could have gotten into right and said, okay This is they would have known about it earlier in the year or even the year before and said, you know This feels like something that's going to be pretty popular or people really liked it back when it was sort of a You know a minor aspect of the overall story Uh, let's see what we can put together for some kids, right? Because I think that they you know One thing I know that that happens is they don't always make everything that gets sculpted into a full army, right? That's how you get that's how you got things some interesting like quest and blackstone fortress and things like that Sometimes they just end up with with one off. So they don't know that doesn't necessarily have the gas to make a whole army out of it But I think this would have been worth an exploration, right? um okay cool beans uh All right, so we've kind of touched on this already with these three uh with these three ideas But Clint you're you're currently in the middle of doing like an old hammer project around some classic vampire accounts, right? I am they're just behind me in one of those tubs. Yeah, like proper sixth edition from when I started but on rounds There you go How how much do you think this will connect to like existing soul blight lore, you know or existing Old lore, etc. Like how how close do you feel like they want to make this? um, I think that I was reading the soul blight lore this morning just to brush up on what they had changed with aos Um, it's very similar. It's still blood. It's still this they call it soul blight, but they still have to drink blood They still have to do all that sort of stuff Um, I think they will tie it back to the lore as far as they've tied other stuff back. So like manfred Ties back You know You get little callbacks here and there and I think that's probably where they will they will leave it They'll be the touchstones that people will recognize, but then they'll try and create new New stories and and and and go forward from that and which is something that they've been doing With pretty much everything just just the little little nuggets there for people who played before But lots of cool new stories that they can tell with the with the breadth of the the world so Yeah, we might get we might get the the the new lamia Touches through stuff if there's like a dual infantry kit or something like that. There might just be some nods Um and things like that. So Yeah, I tend to agree I think that's right And I think that's that's what makes me really like the idea of having Sort of the new mortar and having this one portion of the army that's kind of like the new thing we build out And then we've got the existing two that call a little more to the sort of traditional aesthetic, right? It lets them kind of have their cake and eat it too Uh and a os if I the whole force while still calling back to the old blood lines in a clear way Mm-hmm Uh, what would the new mortar job be like because because we've what we've seen is we've seen that The mortars have jobs. So, you know, a linda in her night haunt. They are the shock troops They the the quick rush they go they kill everything catacross is the you know, he's the immaculate general Nefarada is the spy master manfred is the terror troops kind of thing. What do we reckon that the um The new Mortar can that force what would their job be so to speak? I'm I'm going to argue uh rating and uh like just What I want to call what I'm trying to call this like piratical rating basically like that's you know Because the wraith fleet can now sail over land like they talked about that post the post the um What I want to say, um The necker quake. Thank you. That was the word I couldn't think of in my head Uh, you know, he he's the the wraith fleet they mentioned can go out over land now, right? And so to me it seems like the idea is they hit deep into enemy territory where his other troops can't go, right? So like, uh, ladio tends to come in through Like gates and stuff like that and be the front line forces that then you know, the other deaf people march behind But that's still part of like an organized military Incursion like when they took me the one of the one of the eight points, right? Uh, right. I think that this is what they do like this is their this is their mortar for like behind enemy lines Incursions, right? They're there to like to build wealth blood Stuff like that to steal power artifacts magic things that that Nagash and the death need Right, like they're they they go in they soften things up. They steal stuff and then they're gone If you're landlocked you're definitely not going to be expecting a ship full of vampires to rock up and steal all your stuff Yes, right. That should be the one thing we don't have to worry about gosh darn it Like I thought we got away from those. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely Yeah, I think that like to me that just makes sense, right? Uh, right So Okay, tom any thoughts on the on the connection lore? Um, no, I think that that I think that that is I think that is accurate Okay, like I think that like I think that that's like what we've described is I think the types of things that we'd expect Okay, so we've covered units lore the bloodlines Clint is there anything that you kind of thought about as you were thinking about this that I haven't touched on yet Not really. Um, we've sort of covered off Pretty much everything. Um, and you know including how they fit into stuff. So I didn't I don't have anything To add sorry, tom. No, that's probably something I'm missing. That's all good I I just want to make sure it was missing tom. Is there anything we we missed in this anything we didn't cover No, I think I think yeah, I think we're good Yeah, I mean to me all the signs are there that this is This is happening Between the rumor engines between the van brecht throwout and the end of broken realms marathi Between what we saw in underworlds. I mean, there's only so many coincidences before it's not a Coincidence anymore, right? Like it's clearly just part of a plan Uh, I think the one thing I would really Love to see Let's let's close out on this. Okay, which is Let's talk quickly at just sort of give a couple high level Neat mechanics You would love to see for the army. I mean literally you can talk about anything you want Could be an allegiance ability could be a battalion type thing could be an artifact or spells or I don't care Right. Just think about any type of mechanical type thing you'd love to see this army have I'll I'll I'll start Okay, just to give you both a time to to Let the the gears grind there For the Wraith fleet like the the vampire Piratical sort of raiders thing. Okay I would love to so stealing gold in a game of aos means one thing in one thing only and that means stealing objectives Okay, so I would love to see the raiders have like whatever the the Whatever the Wraith fleet raider side of it is I would love to see them have some kind of ability to literally steal an objective From another force when they move on to an objective like they get for the turn They charge make the enemy count to zero models and like steal it away or you know something like that, right? They have some kind of special thing they can trigger Maybe it's they have to charge and a command ability gets activated You know, I don't you can put it behind paywalls quote unquote as it were right But like they can literally steal the gold out from under you Right. I think would be a really cool Mechanic that would make them feel very pirate piratical So there you go. That's that's uh, that's mine Uh, Clint what do you got? What would you like to see? Well, I think it's the opportunity to bring some shooting into Mainline death that we don't Already have like I know we have the corollas in obr, but Typical, you know legions death Doesn't really have shooting and there could be some Um scope there to bring in I don't know about cannons because that's getting a bit crazy But you know, you've got these these vampirates with pistols and things like that I know I'm I'm wondering if that would be quite a cool thing to just bring in a little bit of short range shooting, which is one of death's Typical downfalls and whether that only really works when you're in a wraith fleet, you know They have a way to leverage that off. So you don't just go. Oh, I'm gonna put my vampirates into this other death army and Go crazy And I was also thinking about ambushing which currently sits with legion of knight, but I know when I was running my My wraith fleet that I built I was using legion of knight rules because that really represented You know these pirates turning up out of nowhere and coming and stealing all your stuff. So whether that's a wraith fleet hat Yeah, whether they just rejig that You know and we get some sort of Interesting combo of like what knight horn has now and what legion of knight has maybe something in there To represent that sort of surprise As well Yeah, I'd much rather see them change legion of knight away from the ambushing thing and give the ambushing to like the wraith fleet portion And turn the legion of knight into like you can summon Dumb low Pitle stuff like what manfred traditionally used so bats or wolves or whatever, you know from like terrain on the board Right, like uh much the way like this how the scuttle type spell pops out. You just continue the kits Uh comparison, right? It'd be really cool if you could if if he could just like boom like out of the out of a You know some woods or a building a unit of five dire wolves pops out, right? And so much the same way that like the ravagers In slaves darkness their generals can kind of hop around and each round They can call on their boys from the end from the edge of the board You know the leader of like the legion of knight once around can call some like min unit Just like the same way they have it structured there of dire wolves or bats or or whatever, right? And then you give the ambushing to the people it belongs in which is the wraith fleet guys Yeah, yeah, it's cool And the calling those little low-level minions. It's very von car sign. It's very Old school as well. You know, yeah, absolutely. I mean it feels so Like I remember that like in so many stories Of manfred. He would just always have just he would just black in the sky with his bat swarms and stuff You know, like this was his his thing So, yeah, agreed Uh, and I I despite my my constant making fun of manfred as the worst mortar In fact, I do oh manfred a great debt because he gave us age stigma. So thanks manfred What I remind people of all the time Yeah, I mean we have this game without him We all owe him a great debt And let's be honest the real bad guy was obviously tackless the whole time, which that we can all agree on Okay, tom, uh, what about you any any mechanics you want to see? Um Not that I can think of okay, somebody mentioned stealing artifacts in the in the um In the comments, which would be amazing, right? I mean any kind of like stealing stuff like that would be super cool. Yeah, yeah uh, yeah, I mean the There's there's so much you could do with this beyond the already existing vampire type mechanics that are obvious of like Uh, you know if they kill things they drink blood and heal and blah blah blah blah like all of that type stuff is completely fair Um, I would hope that if we get new blood knights that they actually can heal in a real way Like that would that would be good. Thank you Sure, um, or just make them tougher like I'm okay with them being like hyper elite infantry that can't like restore a model Because they are supposed to be like the elite of the elite vampires. It's hard to believe that a new vampire just Pups up out of nowhere like I'm okay with that then just make them that hard Right to where they they they're worth You know hundreds of points as five guys with 15 wins, right? Like just make them, uh Just make them worth that that level of points and have to get have them pack that level of toughness You know and and then cool. Yeah, that's fine. I'm okay with that Like I love the idea of hyper elite infantry And you can get away with it I mean it can it can work They just have to be defensive enough to live and offensive enough to actually earn their points and clear an objective, right? So if you put both those things together, sure, man, I'll I'll I'll go in for like a 250 point blood knight unit that that can earn that right Like guys on a three up save with a five up after save or something. Sure Sure, absolutely because they're hardcore, you know what I mean And then they when they hit they hit like a truck coming in. Yeah Yeah, death baron guard. Yes, absolutely. W. Soren. Yeah, a hundred percent. There's no reason you couldn't hit that, right? Yep. All right, cool Well, gentlemen, I think we've we've now speculated and so in a mere three months probably less Because hope they'll do some kind of reveal show probably in january around the time that the lbo reveal show would have happened Uh, and I'm guessing we'll know the shape of it then. I hope Yeah, we'll see unless we unless they really keep Keep this one under a bushel and we don't know but I have a feeling in the next couple months We'll know the truth of all this so We'll have to come back and see how we did clint Absolute pleasure my friend. Thank you for coming on the show. This was fantastic Thank you for hanging me on I just want to point out by the way that clint is completely in theme You can't really see it because my head's in the way here, but right here Is the the poster for and on clint's wall for the vampires and right down here. He's had the epic Vampire wallpaper on his computer the whole time. This man is pure professional Right here. So I hope people notice that Uh, no, thank you clint. Absolute pleasure to all of you out there. Thank you so much for watching We really appreciate it as always We'll see you next wednesday. Don't forget to hit the like button on your way out. Bye. Hit like See and subscribe if you didn't. Bye everybody See you next wednesday