 Tiyaman, na exaseza took place at the area for your grounds and good to have him in the studio, it's the much eagerly awaited interview and I'm talking about Sasha Mutayu who is joining us. Good to see you Sasha, how are you doing bro? I'm very good. You keeping well? Yeah. How is it like transitioning into management of the game? You've been there before in the capacity of Vice Tiyaman, now you're the president of the federation in a sport that you passionate about. How does it feel? Now it's a big responsibility and we've taken it with both hands and with the team that was elected we are working to get rugby back on track. You see recently we were also relegated from World Series but we are looking at getting back, qualifying for the Olympics and also now qualifying for Rugby World Cup 2027. So there's a lot on our plate, we also have to clean up our books, the serious debt that we have to get back and pay and get things back on track, get us back in the black. We also need to, I said it in my manifesto, we need to build a stadium and that's part of the agenda, we've been already talking to government about getting land allocated because many people do not know that Kiiru is homeless. Actually we are subtenants at RFUA which is the home of Kenya Rugby but really Kenya Rugby is just a subtenant there so we have to fix a lot of things and get rugby back on track. As a chairman now it was really troubling and really hurtful because you have been a vice chair, you have been a director you have been at the border of the Kenya Rugby you worked to see Kenya get on to the top level and when we were relegated from the HSBC series that had got to hurt. From an outsider's perspective, that had to hurt. It was painful but it's not a shocker because there was no investment happening. It nearly happened a few years back so we have always been now in the brink and we need to get back into the top eight. When we were there we were in top five we qualified for two semi finals of the Rugby World Cup so we were top because we had put in the investment. Now if you don't put in the investment unfortunately we lost sponsorships and when the sponsor came back in Sport Pesa in December last year so basically it kicked in in January this year it was a little bit too late but we are going to fix it. Now the challenge is coming back and everybody will be thinking of the field of play everybody thinks that the field of play is how we are coming back much factoring in the other factors outside of the field of play how are you working around that for us to get back into the chassis? Right now the most important thing is actually as you are saying the back office the back office has to be fixed you know in hotels is the front office and the back office is where the problems are made behind the scenes I mean if you look at last year's accounts in the rugby and get sponsorships of 25 million it's poultry but you see Kenya rugby lost confidence of our partners and sponsors now what we are doing is now saying yes this is a new board things are going to be done the proper way there's government structures coming in we even co-opted and some other directors who are in corporate world who are trusted we are saying we are going to put in the systems the sisters are there but they have been scouted no more none of this cronism and all that we are here to build this game we have observed in different capacities these directors coming we are having a former Kenya captain who is now a director and we all have one voice and looking at you know building this game to what it should be with all the talent that we have in this country there is no reason why it should not be 75 was 57 15 our main name is of course to beat Zimbabwe and Namibia Namibia is our basic competitor for the rugby walk up but we have to put in our systems in place so our plan is to revive the super series but not just revive it but it's actually to re-engineer the rugby super series into a six team franchise professional league that will be next year but we have to build it up this year this on 28th of July we will have a investor conference and where we will showcase all the properties that Kenya rugby union has to give to investors and our partners and our sponsors to come and partner with us and we show them the path what it actually costs Kenya rugby service should just to get them back we have already given a budget to do our sponsor kind of sponsor it's much better we had a meeting last week this week actually but I don't know what happened and they are behind us even if we have dropped down one level they are with us and they have confidence in our plan to get Kenya back up we also shared this budget with knock if you look at the budget to get Kenya 7s back into world 7 series and qualify for the Olympics and also next is not just to qualify we want to be a medal contender next year so we have given a budget of around 181 million shillings so it's a big budget but remember when Kenya was getting to all these semi finals and performing well when we had Mike Friday and Paul True we were running on a budget of 2 million dollars other teams were on 3 million and above but again you know these numbers look big but people need to remember that rugby is a sport that has many numbers there's no other team sport that has the numbers players on the field so it's expensive that human resource has to be paid for and that's a reality for us to compete we need those resources but for us to get those resources we need to get the confidence back and that is what we are doing now and we have said before in the union and been successful and have the trust and of course in our other businesses out there people trust us so we want to put back the systems and make sure that Kenya rugby union is run the governance structures are good I was in an event this week and with top CEOs of various companies and gave a talk and they are confident that yes and they were saying before yes what has happened the past few years has gone because of governance when you hear all these stories in the papers strikes here and all that and I had a report about the litigation I've asked for every report so we had Kenya rugby union was basically in court a lot of the times we want to stop in the 15th coach Paul Odera there was an injunction and everything and those are the things you don't want to talk about exactly we do not want to in the campaign period is that rugby needs to be played on the field not in courtrooms and that is what has to happen we are going to come back now to your manifesto every these things are happening you want your house in order when you want to come back to your manifesto you talk about getting a rugby stadium because that's key for us in that everybody now suffered running athletics everybody's diamond league now for you it's like we need a rugby stadium how can we get that into actualization so the rugby stadium in my profession I'm a quantity server and I've been involved in some of the land projects in the region so I know how to bring in the partners to make sure this is a reality so we are talking to government for a location of land in Kasarani and we have partners who have done stadiums have talked to boogat man and partners the director who actually designed Soka City in Soweto so he's interested in coming we have worked together on different projects so we have goodwill the plan is to build a stadium in Kasarani probably a 25,000 sito stadium with three fields also for training high performance center proper gym football but also rugby stadium football rugby stadium but even now when I notice it for rugby we can hire it out it has to be a commercial venture we are also talking to partners so we can come in and actually put money into the development of the stadium and in the SPV that is formed depending on your contribution to building that we should help with the tax rebates we have cap 470 section 1220 where if you put money into sports sponsorship you get tax write offs so we also have a tax top tax consultant sitting now on the Kenya rugby union brought by the name of Cairo so all that paperwork we shall do we shall bring in these partners who will help them in the tax part of it benefits and we shall also now give them the usual packs that come with sponsorships and on top of that investment because now they will be part of an SPV of a stadium that is commercial so they will be earning money from their own investment so it's win-win everywhere and of course now this is also in line helping the government achieve its agenda sports and sports tourism but it's private sector that has to do it we cannot unless we say tuna ombasere kali begging government has a thing on policy and the policies are set and in the government if you look at what parliament passed for this tax act and also for tax rebates from sports sponsorships it's amazing and we have not exploited that so government should just put policies and probably now just support the team when it's going for olympics and commonwealth but the rest of it is up to federation and the federations have to partner with the private sector and that's why now we also want to introduce the professional sides actually just like our friend Ngarwakamuia keep saying that the role of government is not to fund and support the sporting activities in the country but to put in place a conducive environment that probably will attract investors and corporate and that we are talking also minister of sport talk to the seers and peers and this government is amenable and we have access to them they listen to us, we talk to them so what we are asking for is that the land to be allocated and then we shall do the rest of it talking about everything that you just talked about brings us to the question of self reliance and that you need now the kenya rabi union to be self reliant how do we go to that so that's it for us it's to run it like a business and make it attractive and that is now with the trust of the private sector and saying that okay we have to go professional to compete on that level because I mean kenya 7 was semi pro and actually that probably 2012-2013 2014 we were professional because players would earn money could sustain themselves because at that point 10 years ago basic salary for tier 1 players was 150,000 and then there was bonuses so you do 2 good tournaments you get 2000, 2000 dollars 4000 plus 1500 players we are going with 5000 dollars a month and you are 22 years old 10 years ago so it was sustainable, it was professional but now we are back to how much our status is no way you can compete against somebody who day in, day out is doing rugby is forecast he knows his house is in order his family is well fed kids are going to school but when the kenya 7 player is going there he doesn't know where the next paycheck is coming from so when spot pressure came back in there was litigation against spot pressure there was arbitration but we are saying enough of this court cases we have to work in harmony where are we going we are not going anywhere we are in kenya this is our country we love it we love our teams we have to work together this thing of litigation should end it's ending during this period we want harmonious good working relationship and everybody benefits and the thing is kenya has the talent we have talent falling off the trees we need to make sure that we give this young boys and girls men and women the best opportunity to perform at the highest level and from it they have to be able to earn from it and that's what our aim is once that is done I'll build the stadium and I've done my work Elad you're talking about the welfare and plight of players who form an integral part of the sport you remember just a few months before you guys took over before elections there was one of the legs of HSBC World 7 series and kenya rugby national 7 players had to go to twitter to social media platforms you know appeal for financial help because they are saying that as much as they are representing the country and bringing glory back home they are struggling financial over and pay their lovances and dues what are the mechanisms and policies you seeking to put in place to ensure that that malpractice is something of the past now that will be something of the past because I cannot associate myself with this thing of Mchanga this is a national team it is up to us as the board to bring in the finances now when you start blaming players and yet you are not doing your work there has to be work done in the board room and work done on the field once you have done your work and you have delivered to the playing unit what they request for now you can demand for results everybody plays their part so we cannot have lazy people on the board and I think the board that I have are good hardworking people I've seen them in the last two months they are working and we all have to work together and this thing of going with begging boats will be a thing of the past we have a tournament coming up in July the world rugby under 20 trophy so we have 8 countries so it's an international event world rugby has entrusted us with this we had a successful Bates Cup which was the Africa under 20 Zimbabwe won and we were second so now we want to do better in this marisa international tournament we have big names coming in CEO of world rugby will be here President of Africa rugby will be here President of South Africa rugby will be here we shall also have Tandaim Tawarila the beast the World Cup winner he will be here coming with the trophy the trophy he took a couple of weeks back to Paris because it was 100 days to the rugby World Cup and South Africa are the current holders so he took the trophy back and he will be here in Nairobi so there will be good rugby Zimbabwe, Kenya the USA team and that in itself consideration of Kenya as a host venue of such prestigious tournaments does that underscore the world rugby's confident and commitment they have in our sport so we hosted it in 2009 at that time I was director I was on the board I was the youngest director at that time so I was in charge of servants but we had the world rugby trophy in 2019 and now we have been given this opportunity so it is good for the country in terms of also the government agenda of sports tourism so we are playing our part there and government is also with us in this tournament so we are sitting the local organizing committee and ministry of sports so we are working hard on this we want to deliver flawless good events we want to perform well as well the planning is on advanced now it is basically less than 3 weeks to kick off we look forward to this and we invite everybody and youth especially who are watching this because it is their tournament to come to the stadium and watch I was in a conversation and we struck a deal to take the team to western province I think the Kenyan team the 15th team going to training in western province and now you look at we are coming on to the Kari Cup taking it to Nakuru we played in South Africa and the ones in Kenya also what are your plans now in 15th rugby because also 15th is a core property of the Kenya rugby union 15th we need to get a sponsor simbas do not have a sponsor the lionesses do not have a sponsor so we are going to showcase and Chippo also doesn't have a sponsor but hopefully next week we will sign a deal that they will get sponsorship for this tournament and now we have to do we are less than 3 months in office but we are working on getting sponsorships for these teams that will give the sponsors mileage once we showcase everything on 28th July we will have a cocktail event where we will invite CEOs of companies that we can partner with our previous partners and new partners coming in and it will be global, it will be streamed so that people can see out there we are not just looking at Kenya it is a global thing we are very ambitious we have seen what we can do Kenya servants, what they have done get into semifinals of world cup in such a short time we have nearly got into world cup 15th just one game off so we are ambitious and we know what we can build Africa rugby is also ambitious with the new president of Africa rugby he is from Ghana he is very ambitious so we are speaking the same language so in Latin it is called consensus at EDEM a meeting of minds so that is what we are thinking we are thinking this and we have thought big before you have to think big to get somewhere but if you are thinking this level this is only so far so that has to happen and it has to be also realistic for world cup 2027 we are not going to win it probably 3 cycles to now be competitive but for 7s it is faster it is an easier path we have also the lionesses who qualified for WX3 it will be in October it is a new series for women's rugby because while rugby is taking women's rugby seriously and Kenya rugby is as well so our plan of course now that we have Kenya women's team in a global showcase is also to get the sponsorships for them and to adapt talent as to be seen we have 2 players playing in Japan so we are very ambitious to get Kenya women's team to qualify for 2025 we are second in Africa to South Africa and when we played them in Madagascar I went to Madagascar to watch the games and yes there is a gap between us and SA and we know what we need to do to bridge that gap so we don't want to play second fidu we are very ambitious and you know with the talent that we have we shall get there and we are also now expanding the girls rugby in July as well we will have girls rugby in schools in high schools and now next time we want to have it 15s because it will be 7s and we need to get that and probably the super series which I am saying we need to get women there as well women side professional the girls will be sending pro but we have to force it down if you are coming to do this Kenya cap have a side fork and then of course we have the funding we give to the team so on us is also on us on the KRU to get sponsors for the leagues which have not had sponsors but once we get a sponsor we send the money down to teams we shall also demand that they have extra teams if you have a women's team we will get more funding and we want you to have each grade so Kenya rugby cannot do everything we have to set the policy at the top and it cascades down and we have the talent we have the talented players and we have also talented coaches and people who run clubs who are passionate so they will do that work so they will get policies and cascaded down and once you see Kenya rugby and get back the confidence of these partners it cascades down to the clubs because clubs are suffering and that's why we run for this office because it's not sustainable that every weekend people are calling you send them person but it's not sustainable however much you want to do it it's not sustainable but when you are at the helm as vice chairman having risen through the ranks from director vice chairman under the legs of Mange Mude was considered to have been one of the best performing carry chairman there was plenty of sponsors at the helm not askers, safari kump, Kenya Airways what do you do what do you seek to do to restore sanit and order the federation so that we start attracting get the confidence back we have to get rid of these conflicts of interest that have been there and it's open, people know about it there's nothing to hide there's been issues, sponsorship and directors clashing with sponsors which should be the case we have to work together so egos should be patted and we work for the good of the game so the good of the game has to be there and if you just think for yourself your self-aggrandizement we don't have room for that when you co-opted the new directors more so from the private sector that you actually brought in I think there were four the four members that you co-opted can you tell us more about them what are they bringing on to the board of the Kenya rugby union so we have Kairu Thu he's a lawyer and he's a tax consultant he's considered one of the top tax consultants in the country he's a director on ICA lion board he's a director of NCB he sits on a bank board he sits on a Kenya power company board so he's bringing in that expertise of finance and legal and to help us push the agenda for sports sponsorships and tax deductions and basically corporate governance and he's trusted we have Nisha Manhuk who is in marketing she's a well known marketer in corporate Kenya she also sits on the current country club she's a director of sports we have her then we have Zawadi and this Zawadi who is also a referee so she'll be representing referees and that part of it and then we have Vanjiku Wairia who is in governance as well she's also sitting in a lot of inventory and she's previously worked with us in Kenya rugby union she was a nutritionist so actually brought her on board as director of servants she was a nutritionist for Kenya servants so right now we have 4 women so we have 28, close to 30% representation of women and we are looking at also increasing that and our thing we have to do is update our constitution our constitution is updated we need to put it in line with the sports act and with world rugby and this constitution I've been a victim of it as well because it's very political and that's the truth and we have to correct it and it has to be for posterity for the future generation we have seen how the good things in it the bad things in it and what we need to change and these changes are going to happen we are not afraid of changes previously people have been afraid that all the more clubs you have can't continue the constitution needs to be for the game of rugby not for politics so we are not supposed to be politicians there and you want to stay in office for what if the game is not going well what are you wasting your time there doing what you want is to build this game and make sure that it's a pathway and young people can earn from it there is a lot of employment by this talent and if you look and you have to think forward 20 yas 30 yas 40 50 yas going down Kenya rugby now is celebrated over 110 yas this year Nondiz Nondiz 100 yas 100 yas goes so they are celebrated 100 yas Kenya rugby is more than 110 yas but what have we done the question usually goes back to the culture the culture of rugby how will you bring that culture for people to come out and now embrace that culture of rugby because at 1923 club I think that's Nondiz 100 yas and your friend Ahuka I think he was the chairman for Nondiz and that one is really great and it brings out people have now will understand that this rugby has been here for a long time for many decades so that culture people have come to embrace that culture and I say rugby I owe rugby a lot I am a part of the things where I am in terms of even my success in my profession, in life rugby has inculcated in me values and those values now we need to cascade it down to young players young boys and girls together rugby culture what has happened of the recent is that culture has begun to the things of integrity and rugby integrity is key so what we are bringing back is integrity so that is the most important right now which cascades through even the sponsorship you take a gentleman it's a hard game and ladies now ladies are gentlemen because the ladies are playing and they are playing really good games you watch the games in Madagascar and I mean I had a good time because our Kenyan women really pushed and played really well and we want to get back the crowds into the stadium people are going out and drinking in bars let's provide them we have to improve the infrastructure in 2023 we don't have a stadium with good flood lighting flood lighting now is cheaper we have LED lights it's cheaper even on running in terms of power why don't we have flood light why don't we have good pictures kikuyu grass comes it grows here kikuyu grass is used in golf courses globally in South Africa the stadiums that have hosted World Cup Finals use kikuyu grass but it needs water if you look at our fields you can't even train that's why we had problems with Kenya 7 last year before they went to camp in Kasawani this is just when you came into office the grounds are hard so players can't tackle rugby is a physical game you need to have and you need to put the investment Kenya 7s and other teams have been punching above their weight but now it's time it's no excuses now it's our opportunity now to show people that yes we can raise this money we put it in the right place and you're going to reap the rewards of that investment we are very ambitious but there are some things that are quite easy to do basic logic no corruption they're going to do things the right way put the investment in and we'll see the rewards because we have the people according to insiders and reliable sources they say that Sasha Mutai got the overwhelming goodwill from the government we've seen president William Ruto himself reiterating his love and commitment to grow and develop sports and get empowered because sport is huge and it has proved to be a lucrative employer globally I don't know when is the likelihood of us witnessing president himself appearing at the RFU grounds to watch one of the local games because it is something that has not been witnessed in the longest time the former president I think graced one of the games some time back though he went to a test march we invited the president for the World Drug Band at Winnie Trophy and we'll see when he has his calendar is very busy but yes he's behind all sport in Kenya the ministry of sport has been quite helpful I can tell you one thing even before I came into office the PS at that time Jonathan Meke had gotten a request from the team that they needed residential camp but of course Kenya lagbillion is in debt the serious debt that we also have to clean up so the PS that time also arranged for Kenya 7s to go into that so we got the best environment over more than a year that the team was playing in the series this was more than a year now they had a proper environment so government is behind us and we are behind them because we have to do work together and as I was saying at the end of this year we want to be self reliant not just asking government for money what we just requested is that piece of land and we shall do the rest of it government is there to do policy and put things in place sports fund and all structures we are going to help them as private sector we are we love this country we are here we are here to stay, we will die here we need to improve this country, we are not going anywhere else so it's up to us we have to build this game so we are going to help the government we have to help ourselves and the government and things like unemployment can be solved with sport and now if you look at TV and betting betting is on sports so we have to do that sporting activities we are providing content we are going to drink in a bar we want to change things including those night games when you have flood lights things are safe, you can go watch a game it can be Friday night who says rugby has to be only on Saturday we have to spice up things it's 2023 so we cannot be the same way it was in the 90s and 80s at that point all rugby globally was amateur after the 1995 World Cup but we are still amateur we have to go professional this year the calendar for national 7's circuit is out I think as usual fans get passionate about the entire circuit as the rugby traverses the whole country what are the plans of even making this better going forward hopefully this week we shall announce a sponsor for the 7's circuit and then it starts in Dala it's coming weekend and then it goes to Mombasa for driftwoods and then there's a break and it's spread over basically 3 months from July to September the last tournament and then the next one will be the Africa Cup so from this 7 series the Kenya 7's team will be chosen you might say a few new faces but the coaches and the panel will choose the players from there it's going to be exciting because all players will be available we need to see every player playing so now it's going to be exciting because people now have to fight for their positions as a big one I think now they usually say the ball is in your court to deliver everything that you have put self reliance, investment those are the key points that people are going to take from your administration and I believe you can do it so President what are you promising the fans who have always demonstrated overwhelming love for the sport because as a man who is widely travelled I'm sure if you go overseas and you ask those foreigners which sport they know and understand in Kenya is athletics and rugby and one day what will happen in 2016 in Singapore one day will it come to pass I want that not to just be a one of it should be we should be in finals Kenya should be semifinals, finals and winning and eventually of course we want to revive safari 7's and we are ambitious enough to say that once safari 7's is back up to the level it was and surpassed we shall also be bidding now to have a world 7 series leg in Kenya Kenya is a beautiful country tourism destination and all that why don't we have a 7 series here but we have to prove ourselves we don't want any help I think we are good enough for us right now this year is because of the issues we have had we need to get that we have government support a lot of it including for this world rugby and the 20 trophy but going forward we need to be self reliant but to do but we have a bigger part to do we cannot just be begging all the time Kenya rugby used to be nominated and won sports team of the sports federation of the year it was running well and that's what we need to do and it's just the culture has to come back I think we have the team that can do it on the board the team on the ground but one is not in that because as I said the quality is there we have players, the one thing we don't lack is players, we don't have to import players we have them and of course we have passionate people who have been running teams and national teams and their own teams and very hard circumstances where there are no sponsors people are chipping their own money I mean even the Kenya the lionesses team their own coaches were also paying the players it's embarrassing and I'm saying we have people we have used our resources and of course now it's showing but these are the people who should be getting national honours so we will also be pushing in December for people we can give a story Kenya rugby has stories people coming there was a book that came out I think 100 years ago 100 years exactly it's actually 110 years 10 years plus so that book is available and the story is there and that is part 1 so he's already working because there's a lot and there's a lot more content now but the story is there and maybe we want to see this on Netflix in a few years the rise of Kenya rugby getting to a World Cup win name and all that people making money from the game the talent is there players going to France to India or Japan and in good money that is possible it is possible quite an insightful conversation with one man who means well for the development and growth of the sport Sasha Alexander Mutai joining us this particular afternoon to share the plans and aspirations he has towards the revival of rugby he enjoys huge fanatical following countrywide and his main agenda is professionalize the sport and attracts sponsors back at the helm of Kenya rugby and something that was being witnessed back in the day and I think this is the conversation we will keep having as day goes by so that we see the growth of the sport and the teams both Kenya National Rugby Seven team Shujia alongside 15 Simba and Lionesses performing particularly at the continental stage but even on the international platform because he says just like we did in Singapore Seven conquering during HSBC World Seven series you won't be seeing this being a one of an ongoing event that Kenya would be conquering at the global stage thank you for coming through Sasha it's been amazing and pleasure having you on board probably we look forward having you even as we keep talking about development and growth of the sport it would be my pleasure to come here and update you and tell the fans what's happening and all fans need to come and watch the games and support the team and buy the shirts and other shirts these are available we will get one but there is one thing that has been troubling we have been doing this interview and I just want to ask is this the monaco tagua classic yeah kalima 56 it's the monaco soro with this love for watches soro with this love for watches then it's a pleasure doing this don't go and stay tuned, touchline continues very good afternoon