 Onward and upward. How's everyone doing? On a Saturday, our weekly Q&A session, 5 p.m. Mountain Time. It publishes every week. And here we go again in the newly redesigned studio talking all about marathon training based on last week's question of the day. Let's dive right in. Steampunk on YouTube asks, can you start marathon training too early? Steampunk, my answer is yes. Now, with a caveat, I think Steampunk, let's say your marathon is 18 weeks away or 16 weeks away. I think you could use the, so ideally you have at least, you want to have at least 12 weeks. You could pull it off with 8 to 10. But ideally you have at least 12 weeks for a marathon training block. And preferably I would say 14. A lot of the elite runners will bump up to 16. And that's based on they've proven that they can stay healthy and train at a high level for longer periods of time. But I'd say ideally you have at least 12 to 14 weeks to work with leading into a marathon. So if you, let's say you're 17 weeks out or 18 or 16, you could use, let's say you could use two weeks of that 18 week window to cross train, to stretch, to foam roll, to do plyometrics, to work on form drills. All these little things that will reap benefits down the road. So basically building up your strength in your ligaments, your tendons, your muscles, so that when your volume does get higher, you don't end up with an injury. And for me, and the reason I can say this answer to you, Steve Funk, and everyone else, is that I had an injury in 2019 leading into the Cleveland Marathon because I believe I held my volume for too long at too high a level. It was an 18, it was like an 18 to 19 week training block. And it was just, it was too long. Oh, I learned my lesson. So anyway, Steve Funk, I do believe you could hold marathon training, you can start marathon training too early. All right, moving on. Number two, hi, Seth, running my first ever marathon here in Chicago in October. What preparation or workout should I be doing right now before going into marathon training? Thank you very much. And we love you, Darwin. Love you right back. All right, great question, Darwin. Basically what I just said to Steve Funk is, I'm going to say it again, lay that foundation of health. So making sure your, your running form is, is on point. Maybe go to a running shoe store and have them analyze if you trust them. Make sure it's somebody with experience, not just someone that was hired, you know, a week ago at the running shoe store, but have them maybe look at your gate cycle. And I'm not saying you need to change your running form, but just make sure that your, your form is not going to lead to an injury, especially if it's your first marathon. So that would be one little tip right out of the gate. And then again, laying down that foundation of make sure your legs are happy, happy, happy, before your volume starts to go up. So strength training. I'm, and I, the reason I'm saying this over and over again is because everything I'm learning at the physical therapy office that I've been going to the past three weeks, because of this runner's knee, I've learned so much about tendons and overuse injuries, which is very common in marathon training and marathon race runners. So just laying that foundation is my recommendation Darwin. Also Darwin, if it's not until October, I would say definitely choose a race in June or July to peak four. So like a half marathon on, or even like a 10 miler, I would say 10K maybe isn't long enough a 10 miler or half marathon just to have a goal to shoot for it because Chicago, that's a long ways away sometime in October, early October, and you don't want to overthink Chicago for the next six months. Okay. Have so have another goal to shoot for in the meantime. All right. Good question from Darwin. Here we go. Jeffrey asks, do you have any tips or resources for someone hoping to run their first marathon? I've run a couple half marathons and regularly do 13 mile long runs, but the idea of 26.2 seems unreachable. Jeffrey again, connecting back to Darwin, definitely break up your training so that you have a mini goal to shoot for in the next, you know, depending on how far away your first marathon is. I would say also Jeffrey, as far as the tip goes, become comfortable with the 20 mile long run. And I know 26.2 seems very, it seems far, but if you can slowly, and this is where that training block ideally if you have at least 12 weeks, but ideally 13 to 14 weeks, if you can introduce the 20 mile long run throughout your training block, but don't go straight to 20. Go to 13 and then go to 15 and then go to 17. So it's a slow incremental process to get up to that 20 mile long run. And then as far as resources go, I mean, gosh, Jeffrey, Jeffrey, Jeffrey, I mean, oh man, I would say like I do trust Jack Daniels as far as his marathon training tips. So look up Jack Daniels on YouTube. He's a good guy. He's a good go-to resource. And what else? Gosh, Jeffrey, you're putting me on the spot. I'm trying to think of other. I mean, there's so many marathon training books out there. It gets a little overwhelming at times. So I'll just mention Jack Daniels for now. Jeffrey, that's a couple of thoughts for you. Moving on to Logan. During both of your marathons, how many miles in were you able to talk to the guys around you? Logan, I love this question. So he's asking, so in Amsterdam and New York City, how long was I able to talk to the guys around me? And it's a good indicator of the effort level. And was I going out too fast? Was I going out too slow? So Logan, I think it's a great question. As many of you know, went out a little too hot out in Amsterdam. So I would say in Amsterdam, I was unable to talk to people around me probably at like mile four or five. I would probably not be able to talk. But I will say Logan, in New York City, like the gentleman next to me, we were talking up until mile, basically like mile eight or nine. So definitely further into the race. And you know, New York City is quite a bit hillier. So that was interesting. So the pacing was a little better in New York. Yeah, it was a little better. It wasn't as even. Anyway, Logan, I love that question because it helps me think about lessons for the future for future marathons. Okay, leaving it there and moving on to number five, here we go from Sarah. If you only have 15 to 20 minutes a day, what strength training and or stretching exercises are most important to incorporate to supplement marathon training? Sarah, I would say Sarah 15 to 20 minutes is actually a pretty good amount of time. Obviously like stretching is so key, you know, gosh, 15 to 20. But I would say Sarah, if you go to the prehab vlog that I made last week, the hip exercises, I just like I'm so conscious now of runner's knee and overuse injuries because my left hip, it really was so much weaker than my right hip. So I would say ankle weight exercises to strengthen your your hips and just make sure your hips are even and there so you can go, you know, I don't know if you need to go to a physical therapist, but there's different strength tests that you can do just to make sure your hips are even as far as strength goes. That would be my I guess my go-to answer. Also, Sarah, I'm a big fan of turnover and quick feet and making sure our legs are snappy and I'm trying to chase down fast time. So that's why I'm so concerned about I want to make sure like even though I'm doing high volume because what happens when you do long slow runs, you're recruiting slow twitch muscle fibers as opposed to fast twitch muscle fibers and the fast twitch muscle fibers, those are the fibers in our muscles that sprinters have. But as marathon runners, if you want to chase down your fastest times, your PRs, your BQs, I think we need to work, we need to continue to recruit our fast twitch muscle fibers so in the gym, that's why you see me doing the quick feet exercises where you're standing in place and you're doing quick feet, the butt kickers, the high knees and some others that I'm going to be introducing very soon into my regimen, getting ready for my spring 2020 marathon. So, okay, short answer Sarah, ankle, ankle weights for hip strength and then quick feet exercises to make sure your turnover continues to press ahead. I think you can do it all in 20 minutes, I really do. Okay, moving on to question number six, here we go and I did not write a name down for this one, apologize. This is, says coach Tom of Tin Man Elite has been training marathoners with no race pace workouts. Do you think this method of training can have benefits? So, I don't know if that's, I don't follow the Tin Man Elite group as far as their everyday training, my guess is that this question that they are training faster than race pace, more so than right at race pace, I would think that they're not training slower than race pace, so my guess that, I would say there could definitely be some benefits, I guess though I probably fall, it's all about walking the line and making sure you can stay healthy, because that's the thing if you're training at high volume and high intensity, so faster workouts than let's say marathon race pace, you just got to walk the line and make sure you're not leading into an injury, which as we know can happen with marathon training, and I guess I would lean a little more in the direction of race pace for longer stints, so that's why I love my threshold training, like my 13 mile threshold run that I did before Amsterdam, gave me so much confidence going into Amsterdam and it was right at marathon race pace, so at altitude, okay, so anyway, that's my, I don't follow Tin Man Elite and that's my short answer to that question, oh that's a big question, okay moving on, this is from Always Physio, how do you determine the speed of your tempo runs during marathon training, is it based on previous runs, previous trainings or desired race speed, so this is a very interesting question, and the easy, my easy answer for you, Always Physio is that for tempo runs, my go-to reminder when I'm out there seeking out a little more of tempo run, and this is different than a threshold run, okay, but a tempo run, I always ask myself, can I hold a conversation, if somebody was running with me, can I hold a conversation with that person, if I can that means I'm going a little too slow, okay, tempo pace for me is, I can talk to someone, but it's difficult and the sentences that I'm saying are really choppy, okay, because it's hard to hold a tempo run should not be, you should not be able to hold a conversation, okay, so that's my short answer, Always Physio is, it's difficult to talk if somebody was there with you, all right, whereas threshold runs, there's like basically no talking, you're looking over, it's like, you can say a couple words and then you basically got to go silent for the next 30 seconds, okay, so that's my rule of thumb for tempo runs, Always Physio, move it on here, Cameron, at what point would you use nutrition during a marathon, he is training for a Milwaukee marathon on April 11th, so Cameron, I like to take nutrition every, basically every 20 to 30 minutes depending on how I'm feeling, so basically every like 4 to 5 miles, all right, depending on your pace of course, but I'd say at least every 20 to 30 minutes a gel or depending on what your nutrition is at in, at the aid stations, what options they are offering you at the aid stations, and usually Cameron, there's aid stations these days, depending on the marathon, but there's, there's there's a lot of aid stations out there, so some, and that's actually something I ran into in New York City, I think I did pretty well in New York City, but I may have, I may have drank just a little too much along the way, a little too, ah, yeah, a little too much water along the way, anyway, that's a little lesson learned, because I think in New York, if I remember, it was like every mile, I think it was every mile there was an aid station, it wasn't every, it was a lot, so anyway something to keep in mind, Cameron, but every, Cameron I would say starts taking your nutrition early, okay, because it's going to catch up to you, the lactic acid, the burning through your, your glycogen stores and your body, so anyway start taking your nutrition early, don't wait until later in the race, okay, moving on here, this is from OB9400, how many 20 plus milers should you do in a marathon training cycle? So I'm going to try and connect this answer to the broader audience rather than focusing on my training, because I realize like everyone's got full-time jobs and families, and like you can't go run 20 milers all the time, so I would say I recommend at least two, but preferably three or four 20 mile training runs leading into your marathon, so if you have a 12 week training block, that means week 7, 8 and 9, yeah, 7, 8 and 9 are your 20 mile training runs, and then 10, 11 and 12, you start the taper, I like the three week taper, for me personally because I'm coming off of such high volume you might be able to do week 10 for another, so that would be I guess is that number 4, so 7, 8, 9, 10, so that would be four 20 mile training runs and then week 11 is the beginning of your taper, so then 7, 8, 9, 10, so then 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 is that long, slow climb up to the 20, so it could be 18, 16, 14, 12, 10, so I'm just, I'm not a fan of getting up to your peak volume and holding it for too too long, okay, so I think 3 is good, if you can pull off 4 and if your injury history is low, if you don't have a high rate of injury, then I think 4 is good too, anyway, yeah, and can you pull off with 2 probably, but your marathon might hurt a little extra in that pain locker, okay, good question moving on here, do you increase mileage during training blocks or do you choose a peak mileage to cap out at while focusing on workouts like Jack Daniel Prescribes, that's from Giovanni, Giovanni, I think I actually just kind of answered that based on the last question, so it's a slow rise up and again Giovanni, I don't know, I'm a big fan of not introducing speed work early in the training block and I might be a little bit of an outlier here, the reason I don't like to introduce speed work is because one, because of my injury history two, I and this is where you just have to get to know yourself so so well, I tend to peak, I tend to get in shape quick, like really quick and if I hold my, I like to peak at the exact right time, so I arrive at the starting line as fit as possible, as fresh as possible and as healthy as possible and I think that if the speed work happens too early in the training block I tend to peak too early and I know it because my workouts are actually too good and the workouts feel too easy, whereas I want the race to feel too good and too easy, okay so, oh we could go really deep into that Giovanni but that's my answer is slow volume up and start the speed work depending on how I'm feeling start the speed work around let's say week 5 week 6 in the marathon training block, whereas everything before that is just volume building that aerobic engine just like I'm always talking about good question from Giovanni, moving on, Shane how to use your training block for a specific marathon race pace do you run your long runs at race pace or use the shorter runs for race pace or run longer, slower for aerobic building I'm trying to figure out how to train for a specific pace and build engine as well yes Shane, you don't run your long runs at race pace, definitely not so Shane, you run your long runs if you want to put a percentage on it, I would say if you're a heart rate trainer you could go that zone 2 to zone 3 and then I'd say it's like that 60 to 70% of your effort level so no, you don't do your long runs at race pace and then you use your shorter runs like your tempo runs, your middle distance runs to increase the pace just a little bit oh gosh, I wish I could give you some actual paces, but I don't know what times you're shooting for Shane so anyway, as I've already said, all about building that aerobic engine first, moving on here to Moby Life what is the hardest part of marathon training what are the tips or tricks that helped you along the way he's 21 years old he's trying to run sub 245 I love this question, like what's a hard part of marathon training I would say I would say Moby that I mean the threshold running is hard because it's mimicking that race pace and for me I'm at elevation so I like the hard it is at elevation because I know mentally when I go down to sea level it should feel easier and in fact it has felt easier at New York City and Amsterdam so the threshold training is very difficult the long runs are not difficult for me Moby because I enjoy that and I would say Moby of course the interval training is very difficult for me I just, I don't love interval training, but anyway that's my answer hardest part about marathon training I'll just say it stretching when your legs are tired it's so hard for me to sit down for 20 to 30 minutes and just take care of the body when I'm tired, when I want to sit in the recliner so it's not the running part per se, it's the maintenance so that's probably my best answer for you Moby, okay moving on here I might have to skip a few because I know we're going long here let's see let me find the good ones they're all good but they're the best ones currently run about 20 miles a week and longest I've raced is a half he'd love to run a marathon this year when would you say is realistically the soonest I could do it and also any other general advice about upping my mileage that's from Lewis currently running about 20 miles a week so Lewis I would actually say be very patient you might need to wait a year because 20 miles a week that's you know as I already mentioned I think 70 miles a week is an ideal number to shoot for 60 at the minimum if you want to really enjoy the marathon experience if you can pull it off with 40 to 60 that range but the marathon is just going to be so much more painful I just don't know if you're going to actually enjoy the experience so I always say 70 miles a week as kind of that baseline you'll arrive at the starting line so therefore Lewis I would say you might want to put the marathon on hold for a little bit until you can get your volume up to at least 50 miles a week slowly okay very slowly add like add 10 miles a month so if you're at 20 miles a week right now bump it up to 30 miles a week next month and then hold that for a month and then bump it up to 40 miles a week the next month and if you can stay healthy and your body feels good then work your way to 50 and then reevaluate so anyway I just say be a little more patient if you're only running 20 miles a week right now okay here we go Tyson asked what gels do I use for marathon racing the Morton gels the 160s I believe they are so the Morton gels spelled M-A-U-R-T-E-N and I know it's the big hype in the marathon racing world right now mostly because of Kipchoge but I must say the technology in those Morton gels it's not even necessarily the composition like the glycogen stores what the fuel you're actually receiving to burn but it's how it sits in your stomach and expands and doesn't slosh around also I like the fact that it's not crazy high in sugar so anyway Tyson there you go okay moving on interested in thoughts on sharpening in the later stages of marathon prep race pace versus speed versus threshold or some combination there of so he's interested in how to sharpen for a marathon um let's see so let's see oh my goodness sharpening sharpening okay so I like the three week taper so but I'm coming off of let's say 120 miles a week down to 90 and so I'm making a big drop down so for you maybe you're training 70 miles a week and that's why I like that three week taper rather than the two week taper which is typical for most marathon training plans and when I drop down um that's when I begin to introduce a lot more speed a lot more turn over so instead of 1k repeats I'll drop it down to 600 meter repeats and then 300 meter repeats so if I'm three weeks out from the marathon that's when I'll go from the 1k down to the 600 and then the next week down to the 300 meter repeats with a 100 meter jog in between on the track and um and at the same time as I already mentioned keeping up with the plyometrics so that quick explosive um exercises which I've made a vlog about that help with basically the um the fast twitch muscle fibers in your legs to make sure your legs are not going dormant in the taper which yes oh man all these vlogs are coming back to me we've talked about that as well I don't want my legs to fall asleep in the taper because they're so used to high volume high intensity and then I've seen it happen actually even almost mentally as well with runners where during the taper they feel like they're slacking a little bit and that they're they're not getting that work in their legs and their legs can kind of feel sluggish in the last two to three weeks of the training block so anyway hope that answered it to a certain extent I did not write a name down for that one okay here we go what is the minimum amount of recovery time between marathons marathons that is from colm what is the minimum amount of recovery time between marathons I think the minimum I learned you know Amsterdam to New York was I was two weeks so definitely not two weeks I would say the minimum would be six to eight weeks at the minimum but trust me that is not recommended that is not ideal I would say you want to do two marathons per year if you want to be in it for the long haul if you're pulling off three four five marathons a year you might be able to do that for a while but I think it's over time it's going to add up and build up in your legs and I just don't know if your marathon racing career will last as long if you're doing much more than two you know two to three marathons per year so there you go colm okay moving on we're almost done here let's see if you only own the asics glide ride and the beacon v2 from new balance which would you race a marathon in that's from thomas here we go glide ride I think even though it's a little it's a lot heavier but I think the glide ride it's just got a little more a little more pop it's heavier but it's got more pop so I would go I think I would go glide ride over the beacon v2 the beacon v2 is lighter and it's it's nice but if those anyway and those would not be my recommended marathon racing shoes okay here we go that was from thomas here we go from joshua tips for powering through miles 19 to 23 aka the wall so that's a great question from joshua as many of you know marathon racing you hit the wall around mile 20 usually when your glycogen stores are being depleted very rapidly and you got to make sure your pacing is on point and so joshua the I guess the quick answer you know we could get into mental strategies but the quick answer is make sure you are in a group and you're working together it's amazing joshua the power of a group so if you're I often you know I don't see that too often where you see these big city marathons and middle of the pack runners back of the pack runners they're running but I never really see a pack like 10 runners right pack together like that's what I love about marathon racing versus ultra running ultra running you're out on the trails and you're solo that's part of the reason why I have transition from ultra running back to marathon is so fun to run at your race pace in a pack it's so fun so talk to people around you and say hey I'm going to go run 830 a mile for the next 6 miles who's with me and like if you and just but like really pack up and I you'll be amazed at how much that helps you not not to mention like the wind like breaking the the wind ahead of you but I'm just the synergy of running together it's it's unbelievable what happens to you mentally as well so that would be my tip for you Joshua so at mile 16 start talking to everyone around you and say okay everyone let's do this let's pack up let's let's roll together okay here we go moving on last one from Alex do you ever do long runs that are further than the marathon distance so you know you are able to cover the distance and more Alex I would love to but actually I think in an eye I think it's not recommended why mostly because of recovery you might feel good it probably it will give you meant a mental edge but at the end of the day you just your recovery will be too long you might you might need two weeks to recover and that's two weeks and not like sitting on the couch recovery but you might not be able to hit your workouts over the next two weeks at the at the level that you need to to make sure your speed is there so Alex I just don't think you really don't really for the long run I think 22 miles is awesome some elite runners will do 23 to 24 miles definitely they never I've never heard of the elites going 26 miles leading into a marathon training maybe some I can think of maybe maybe like one or two but it's very rare to go the full distance so Alex good question and that is it everyone marathon training again there was over a hundred and seventy comments last week so I got to as many as possible I love you all thanks for watching thanks for being here question of the day here we go and this will be answered in next week's Q&A what questions do you have for me all about racing shoes specifically road racing shoes we'll do another Q&A about trail racing at another time let's dial it in to road racing shoes for the 2020 racing season this is a question of the day thanks for being here thanks for watching tossing it back on the right to the Q&A playlist if you missed some Q&A's in the past that'll be on the right and on the left we'll toss it back to last week's Q&A oh man onward and upward to marathon racing in 2020 see beauty work hard and love each other see you tomorrow