 Welcome everyone. Thank you very much for joining this webinar. Five years into the STG's are we on track to deliver the land targets. So this webinar is organized by the STG Land Momentum Group as a virtual side event on the ongoing rather concluding 2020 STG High Level Political Forum. So if any one of you wonder what is STG Land Momentum Group, it's a coalition of civil society organizations who have come together and also some multilateral agencies who have come together to advocate for the implementation of the land targets of the STG's and also to monitor the or the measure the progress of them. So my name is Rukhshana and I work as the Global Policy and Advocacy Expert at the International Land Coalition. So I again want to thank all of you for joining this webinar from different parts of the world and making yourself available. So as we start the webinar just one at the very beginning highlight the objectives and what we would be taking at the end of this webinar. So as you all know in the present COVID-19 and hopefully sooner than later in the post COVID-19 period. So we just want to highlight what are the particular challenges in achieving secure land tenure for women and men. In that context, in the context of those challenges we want to look at the 2020-30 STG development agenda and is it adequate to face those challenges or do we have to look at new ways and means and engagement strategies in the present context that we exist. So also this is the last decade of STG implementation and how do we really engage governments and the civil society to report looking at the STG land targets. So at the end of the day we believe as we in the webinar that you will be able to walk away with few messages. So what are the strategies which are available to face the present challenges and what are the you know technicalities which are needed to face the challenges and also how do we engage with governments and other stakeholders on STG reporting. So let's start the webinar and I will be introducing the speakers as they are about to speak and the format of the webinar is that from each of the panelists I'll be asking two questions and after the two questions you will get an opportunity as the audience to ask questions. As you may have already noted that your mics are muted but you can type your questions into the chat room and if you look at the screen at the bottom of it there is an icon called Q&A you can open it and type your comment or question. When you type a question if you direct that question to a particular speaker you can identify the speaker so that makes things easier. Just for your records this webinar is on record so all of you know that you are on record and as we're about to start the webinar I just want to say that we're going to do like a little bit of a temporary check. So we have an encouraging number of participants we just want to see where you're joining from and what actually which sector that you are representing. So my colleague from land portal Romi is going to support us and she's going to post two questions on the screen and they are very straightforward and we take a few seconds to answer them and we can see where you're coming from and which sector that you are representing. Here we go the questions are on your screen now. All right I think everybody got an opportunity and then we can see the results. So the first question is in which region are you based so there are 41% is from Europe and Central Asia and then we also have another 41% very encouraging number from South Star in Africa and then the third four percent from Middle East and North Africa and we have a 29% joining from Asia and the Pacific another 27 from North America 10% from South America and four percent from Central America. So also we ask which sector that you represent today and we have huge number of participation from civil society and NGOs which is 75 and we can see 16% from donor agencies and universities knowledge institutes 32% governments 8% and also we have private sector 8% and from 7% from multilateral organizations. All right so we can see very diverse group of people taking part in this webinar and also people from different parts of the world. Thank you very much Romi helping us with this. All right so I'm going to move to the the panelists and I'm going to ask the questions from each of the panelists in the first round and we are very lucky to have this panel and I'm going to move to first Patricia to you and Patricia and she's the director of Esposo Feminista which is a network of organizations based in Brazil and they also work regionally and globally as well. Patricia tell us a little bit about the challenges that COVID-19 has posed in achieving sexual land rights for women and men. Okay so good morning from Brazil and good afternoon to everybody it's a pleasure to be I feel like home with you. Well the first thing is to say that the situation the women's land rights situation in Brazil was already bad very bad just to give you a country of inequality informality and now we discover that we have 20 percent of our population is invisible to governments and to policies so the situation was very bad very bad and then the COVID the pandemic increased and deepened the problems of informality and related to SDGs to our target and thinking about women's land rights yes it's very bad just to give you one idea in a ministerial meeting the minister of environment said let's take advantage of the media that's all pay attention to the COVID to the pandemic let pass the carol meaning let glad grab let the regulate all the the law and you know regulations so it is posing a huge threat to women's land rights and to indigenous land rights to the black population we have a huge problem of racism in our country so that's the first thing also there is a concrete problem of hunger people and we are working on two different levels the first levels when we think about protecting lives and dignity we are talking about hunger we are talking about the informality and the the inadequacy of living we know that we have a huge 22 percent of our population living in slums without access to water to drink water sanitation so there is a real real threat to these populations and yes it is the insecurity of land it affects essentially widows and we have the widows of COVID we affect the people in informal areas because it is informal and so the land drivers can go and it's not just talking about big companies national multinational companies we are talking about next door neighbors you know and we see a lot of land grabby that comes from a farmer who is next door as I wrote I wrote a blog saying that in times of when someone dies in a community during the funeral people come to the window to try to get her land so that's things are increasing enormously and also I think that yeah so the situation right now if you look at the indigenous population what is happening in the amazonia but not just in the amazonia what is happening everywhere to the kilombolas community you know we were in a process of recognizing the rights of these communities and also in the informal settlements people are dying because of the police the police violence so yes it's a major concern a major concern for us to to protect we did a campaign I don't have time to explain thinking about this we did a campaign and we from the month 15 to yesterday yesterday people were receiving food supplies so we work in two different levels protecting the lives and protecting the lives in two different ways protecting the lives because of the COVID supporting these women's feeding we established a huge network to supply food supply the basic things alcohol and we get a lot of donation from the private sector so in the pandemic we also get some surprise we had the huge in our campaign you had the huge collaboration from the private sector but also protecting rights and trying to establish supporting the people to access the you know these policies and the emergency support from the governments it's just an allowance of 120 dollars so we had to support people because everything is on the internet you have to register on the internet but also supporting the rights informing the people how can you support how can you ensure your rights during this pandemic so we got a like a network of you know of supporters is including lawyers and also governments and we work with the government so yes I think that the COVID is yeah it's it's it's a it's a huge threat for us and it's global yeah thank you Patricia for highlighting some of the challenges and we can see that increased amounts of violence and also together with that the opportunity and the space to mobilize mobilize resources also shrinking and there are challenges in relation to that we have highlighted technology and also this is new COVID has created single women and what about their property rights and and access to land right so we're going to elaborate that on a little bit more later on I'm going to move on to Diana Diana is Diana Fleschner she's the senior director of research evaluation and learning at Landesa Diana already there are different stakeholders who are reporting at on STG targets we know that 47 countries have reported in this year's high-level political forum so stakeholders are engaging and they are reporting on the 2030 framework are they reporting on land rights and what kind of progress are they talking about have you really made any progress Diana sorry I wasn't mute um good morning everybody um yes uh this is a very timely conversation as as Patricia said before um COVID is of course exacerbating all the problems that people are facing but the reality is uh many many many people around the world were already facing land rights challenges and we all recognize that and understood that the STGs were a good instrument to try to bring attention to these issues and compel governments to act and either grant or protect those rights and so um today it's a good opportunity to see how are we doing here we thought in the past few years that we had a huge victory when we got land rights to be included in the in the STGs included under goals to ready to eradicate poverty to eliminate food insecurity and to achieve gender equality um and it was a a fantastic win this is a very important tool that we can use and yet uh we cannot take things for granted the fact that these things are written in paper and that there are formal commitments doesn't necessarily mean that they will translate into changing reality and so the big question today is what are we doing how are we doing uh five of the 15 years have passed um and yes having land rights in the agenda is is a fantastic step but countries have committed to many many things under the STGs and countries have limited capacity and countries already had some degree of infrastructure to deal with the other commitments uh addressing land rights issue and particularly land rights of the people who are in a um poor vulnerable situation and and for women um requires resources and times and and special attention and so we know going in that this is a this is a challenge and to assess where we are um as Roxana you were saying um a good tool is to look at the voluntary national reviews uh 47 of the almost 200 countries involved in this process um agreed to review how they were doing um on a handful of goals for the high-level political forum those goals include all the land rights commitments so this is a um key moment for those of us championing land rights and um these the the STGs have the two sides on the one hand they allow us to celebrate uh progress to to look at who's being an effective champion of land rights uh and who we have to recognize and in in those cases I think there's a few examples I can point out um uh the voluntary national reviews of Ecuador and Honduras for example um talk about efforts to formalize land rights uh uh in Ecuador uh giving land titles to over 70 southern um small holders small and medium agricultural holders uh in Honduras uh also a titling program uh we can highlight work done by the government in Bangladesh uh that um paid attention to women's land rights and reports uh working um under a project called my house my farm uh to cover 40 southern villages in Bangladesh and um uh guaranteeing or recognizing the rights of um close to 700 southern women um we can recognize work done by the government of Tanzania where um they've they're going a different route so we're not talking about documentation programs but rather bringing stakeholders together different government agencies and members of civil society under a multi stakeholder platform um that's uh coordinated by the secretary of gender to see how to advance women's land rights um in a um coordinated and cohesive way and we also notice a good example from Liberia where the government has passed a or passed the land rights act in uh 2018 this is an act that's very promising because it allows uh it improves the access to land for rural people and um better coordinates customary rights with statutory rights and so forth um so you see there is a handful of examples um there's also a few governments who have reported on the land rights indicators but nice as this is I have to um say that these efforts are all promising efforts for the most parts when they deliver they're still in their initial stages they're setting things in the right direction uh or they have addressed the needs of a number of people but still have to cover an additional significant gap so we celebrate the steps I have taken we recognize that there's still a fair amount of work to do for those countries now you notice that I only mentioned a few examples uh and the reality is that um if we want to uh get to the type of world that we all aspire to to see in the near future um we do need to move a lot further a lot faster and a lot more deliberately um the vast majority of the countries who have reported and I want to say that these are countries who chose to report this year and chose to report in a year where three of the goals mentioned explicitly land rights the vast majority of the countries did not report one word about land rights and um the few who said something uh in addition to the examples I mentioned earlier have said very little and kept it um fairly vague and so um I guess I want to recognize those who have taken action in those who have uh believed enough in these things to mention them and to highlight them when they report to the highlight level political forum but for those of us who are here who want to make sure there is a difference on the ground and that people can enjoy secure rights this is a very important call to say we need to do more and we need to um and I like that in this group there is people from different sectors we need to see what role can we play each of us to move in a direction that helps um governments and everybody else really uh take the steps needed to guarantee these rights yeah thank you Dana I think it's also a very good segue to start the move on to the next speaker but before that I just want to say we were trying to get a speaker from a government unfortunately at the last minute she couldn't join so but anyway there are member states actually or member state representatives who are taking part in this webinar and so please feel free to comment or even ask questions we want to hear from you as well so you said that there are very few governments who have actually reported on STG land targets so then who is going to report on that can the civil society report so with that I'm going to move on to the next panelist who's Liv Nielsen and she works for the international land coalition's Latin America team and she works on the initiative on STGs and um and and land uh Liv just want to ask how CSOs have grappled with these challenges that Patricia has mentioned and then also Diana has mentioned in relation to like reporting and and how they have tried to report so what's your experience in relation to that well uh as you well said Patricia and Diana made a perfect introduction to the issue um land threats to land rights uh already existed before the pandemic situation right and now with the whole COVID situation social distance is national regional and personal circumstances got into the way uh some times while doing the alternative reports fortunately each organization managed to be creative and resourceful at the same time in order to tackle this particular situation right um as well as I must say the teamwork and the strong commitment that organizations uh showed with um land governance and gender equitable land tenure rights was uh strong enough to uh face the the context as well as um well all the monitoring training and support that we received from ILC and Landesa which was of great value in the process and uh well not to mention the financial support that allowed not only to hire research and consultants but also experts in land matter so that was of great value as well that helped a lot uh while performing these reports on the underhand um well as Diana said there is uh almost no information uh land related whatsoever so when there is some information available it's uh as she said extremely vague uh or sometimes it's even difficult to um uh comprehend or analyze for community in general so that was a struggle and uh and well as she also said most governments uh decide not to include um land related SDG targets or indicators international voluntary reviews oh so it was even harder for us to manage to compare and contrast right both reviews or to get some previous information and in this context of social distances and pandemic prices right public offices uh were closed so it was even harder to uh get direct information from the government I mean if it wasn't online then you had no chance to uh get it whatsoever you couldn't go enough the door right to the public office so yeah it was quite a struggle um but uh we managed yeah I hope that answers the question yeah no thank you that's that's very clear but um I just want to move on to the next round of questions but before that we can see some questions are coming in so um if you have any question or comment please go to the icon called Q&A you can type your question there so um I'm going to move on to the last round of questions before opening the floor for um the discussion um as you said now it's somewhat challenging in relation to reporting on land targets um and COVID-19 has posed extra challenges as well in this context so we really want to look forward to 2021 so in 2020 things were hard things were difficult so but 2021 how that's going to be like and mind you we have only 10 years to achieve the 2030 agenda so I'm going to look at 2021 and beyond and ask from um each of you you know um in your role right now representing the role that you are currently at so what do you suggest for 2021 for countries to meet the land targets by 2030 so Patricia what do you suggest how should countries report and what they should be doing to report on land targets uh the first thing that I have to say and uh I think that most people that knows me know that I have been saying these things in 2013 is that we cannot rely on governments to implement the goals there is a difference between reporting and implementing if and many people heard from me about this if you are to meet the targets and goals we have to do these things differently we have to look at the change and the change comes from good policies good governance so my first thing is we have to look at civil society we have to look from bottom up I think that the first thing we sparse feminists have been working from bottom up since 2015 working with local governments and state governments but especially on local government because we first thing we have to shift power between the global governments and civil society and women's in special we and to do this we have first to use the goals and targets and indicators to inform this population creating what we call political will we political will doesn't exist as the the minister of brazil said there is we have to acknowledge that there is uh how can I say conflict of interest land grabbers have no will to um to do women's land rights you know families we live in a very patriarchal society marches society so it's nothing is going to be granted for us and it's not just reporting it's really making a huge effort to implement good policies that can shift this um you know the situation we in sponsor feminist we have been collecting evidence and it's very important it's very important to sit and we are not against governments we are in favor of governments but we have to sit on the government say look look we have evidence we have collected data and analyze data and use data to shift to make concrete shift in a mood stakeholder platform like in bonito in one municipality we collect data we analyze data we discover that 75 percent of the people living in these urban and rural areas were very insecure the land belonged to the municipality and what we did we call the government and we are in a process of regular rising on the name of women in first so it's this kind of things that we have to engage but we are not doing just locally we are doing locally connect with national and global and so i think that the first thing that we have itself we have to work in coalitions we have to work not just as a you know as a civil society we have to understand the role of private sector we just did the work in the zone of the mountain off in you know one area we we compare the agricultural census between 2006 and 2017 against a huge public and private investment we are talking about a huge crisis theater crisis how can i say theater class plant and we discover that during this process there big shift and it was really women's land rights and all the data that we we have all the indicators were showing that this project had a very bad effect what we did okay using this data informing women's and it's very important to shift power getting we are not working just locally as i said nationally with all these movements and networks we sat with the government and said look look right public money is increasing the size of women's property is you know undermining the the women's situation and establishing a good conversation say you have to do better and not just with government and also with the private sector so i think that we have to we have to do this systematically and also just just to finish it's very important that once we have these numbers these evidence we have to go step forward in bonito we have to build a very good evidence and analysis about what what happened when women have tennis security and we are talking about 75% of the you know the the municipality what happened at at family level shifting power ensuring women's you know right what happens to the community how this community will be in let's say three years is that going to be a big shape a big change in terms of infrastructure you know in terms of environment so that's what we have to do and we have to do learning from each other in a south south corporation i think i spoke too much yeah no thank you thank you patricia so bringing that building partnerships and also you know multiple of production of data by different groups particularly from civil society as well and also highlighting positive stories in this context if these rights are being achieved what it would bring to the society to a country for the benefit of it i think i'm going to move to diana diana so what we should be doing to encourage reporting i'm also going to ask like one question because you work on data as well sometimes when civil society produce data and governments don't accept them so they frown at data which is produced by other sources so how also when you encourage civil society to report in the next decade how do you make it like legitimate that we produce legitimate data which is equally valid as a measurement target great um thank you richana in building on patricia's comments because she she gave a lot of detail on quite specific examples there are their um ideas that we should just take from there because they apply to all of us and i'm thinking about the fact that we had to get to something concrete let's not let's stop talking about generalities and vague statements let's get to what are the specific changes that can be done we have to recognize that we all have a role to play obviously government at different levels uh have uh very clear responsibilities that they have to enact but we as civil society can support that process and can support it in a constructive way contributing to the dialogue contributing with evidence and can support it from the perspective of holding people accountable as well um and so regardless of where you sit and whether you work at the local level at the national level at the global or regional level we all can play a role here um i see the the one of the beauties of the sdgs as a mechanism to allow us to have a cohesive conversation and to try to all move in a similar direction to therefore amplify what we're doing so that so that the change is significant um and not just the collection of um isolated interventions and so um on the comment on reporting i want to make sure that we understand why we're talking about reporting here um obviously the the really important pieces for people to act on their commitments uh that's what that's what we want to see we want to see change on the ground um what the sdgs give us is a mechanism to advance those actions and the way we can advance those actions is by leveraging the reporting otherwise the sdgs are just a series of meetings that will happen behind doors or through zoom now um but would not really translate into change in practice and so um uh i'm going to speak from the perspective of landesa and the work that we're doing with the sdg land momentum group and what we thought was we need to um help stakeholders report the more positive noise that we make around this the more important it will become in everybody's agenda the more compelled government will have to will feel to act and so um what we thought was well this can be a really challenging process for people who have not been involved in these uh in in agendas like the sdgs who are not used to uh moving in these circles um and so our first um task was how can we make this something easier less intimidating in an area where people see the importance of reporting um and then the second piece is how do we make sure that when people report they actually contribute information that's useful information that helps them think about what they want to prioritize information that signals to their governments or do their constituencies what they're doing and what they should be doing and what they plan to do in the future and information that signals to those who are funding this work in which direction we're all moving um and for examples like the one patricia mentioned how can people working in related or similar issues somewhere else in the world see that they have uh challenges in common or that they can do work together and so it was important not only to convince people to report but also to convince people to do it in a way that was meaningful and that was easy to um read and to compare and contrast and then the third piece was the information has to be easily available to people we cannot have to go through multiple layers of websites and the sdgs and manuals and voluntary reports looking for one paragraph lost somewhere in there we need to have something that is easily accessible so what we're doing is we created templates relatively simple templates for governments and for civil societies and we're working on doing something similar for groups on the ground so that they can use the very specific commitments that they're that were made under the sdgs essentially a commitment to ensure that everybody would have a secure land rights a commitment to ensure that small agricultural producers would have access to land and a commitment to ensure that there would be gender equality when it came to land rights um so for each of these commitments we're asking uh government civil society and groups on the ground to look at okay what is the relevant authority the relevant government structure planning to do what are they saying in their country in their locality that they will do what changes have they introduced when it came it comes to legal reforms or policy reforms or institutional governance what programmatic actions are they introducing and then what's going on what does what is the data telling us how how bad or how good things are things for whom how is that changing over time and this ties back to your comment or to your question ruchana on data i think we need to get less hang up on whether this is the official data and whether it's a there is the data that's reported um through the all the um official channels which of course has value and which of course we're trying to build towards we all need data we are desperately craving for that and different people are working at different levels to make sure that that infrastructure exists but that infrastructure will take time it will be the years before most countries have reliable primary data that's meaningful and that meets all the criteria that we want to see so in the meantime people's lives continue to happen and people's challenges continue what can we do to address that it is of course possible the groups of women can gather some data and use that data to advocate for their changes it's of course possible for the private sector and for other initiatives to support these efforts with data and it is obviously a responsibility of the national statistical agencies to think of what infrastructure they're building for their future these are all things that combine together to eventually translate into change on the ground yeah so thank you thank you dana i know that we got about 27 questions and we have limited amount of time but live um there was a question for you and which asked actually why governments are not reporting why are they reluctant to report on land targets and you are coming from the civil society and you know when governments are to report in the next decade you know what do you have to say why are they not reporting and what what do we have to do from the civil society part to encourage them to report yeah well it's yeah it's quite a challenge i think that um since uh land related information it's so difficult to come across with as diana just explained we believe that it's necessary to strengthen the dialogue between the civil society and the government in order to get direct information or not but to get a dialogue with the government and at the same time to create opportunities for the civil society to present reports to the government and then work work together right um at the same time we believe that well the technical and financial support that it will be extremely necessary for next year as well as the training and financial support in order to hire consultants uh experts and uh researchers in the market and um so we believe it's um it's important to generate a common communicational strategy yeah leave it to help and assist civil societies to communicate sorry yeah it looks like we're having some technical issues in hearing you um if you can repeat in 30 seconds what you said and then we move on to the next question yeah yeah i last point then i think that it's important we believe it's important to generate a strong communicational strategy to help and assist civil societies organization to communicate their reports not to the government but also to community needs know also about the alternative reports did you hear me did you manage to hear me say yes i think the message from you is yeah there was some still technical glitches but the message is that we have to have a civil society path clear communication strategies once we have the report to communicate the results and um and reach out to a wider community all right so we have a number of questions as we said patricia there's an interesting question for you and it asks do you in brasil have any legal provisions to predict land rights for single women so it further says in spite of legal provisions we don't see much difference in land holding by women in india thank you for that question patricia okay okay so it's a very good question and if yes yes and for instance in in this area in bonito we and we create a layer the laws is hard to be interpret and we can interpret and use in our favor so yes we are doing for instance in bonito we are doing this regularization process people living there for 30 years without any you know security of tenor we are using these regardless of their marital status because as i said and also to LGBT doesn't matter you know the kind of arrangement we are we are protecting the rights of women single women the titles are going to be first on the name of women and then if they are married if they are not married they are living with someone then the second layer is um for the men so yes we have and we have to use and interpret in our favor okay diana there's a specific question for you it says how the tenor security within the customary systems or common or communal land or forestry or water are measured when countries report on land related std indicators so how do you basically report on customary systems or common lands yeah yes um very quickly i want to say that on the data side on the indicators uh we very deliberately chose indicators that look at the final outcome so we are asking people or we're asking governments to report whether people say that they feel tenor secure and whether people feel that they have or think they have a document that can prove they have rights to land and so we chose these these indicators understanding that there are many different regimes in the world this means that if somebody is living under a customary regime or in under communally managed lands they can still tell us do they feel secure we are not at this level we're not distinguishing whether the insecurities come because of the government because of private sector concessions because of families or in laws we want to make sure that people feel they are secure in the on the land that they're using and accessing that's number one um and the other one is do they have documents to prove whatever rights they have uh and the idea here is uh will the government protect those rights um unless there is some documentation the government doesn't have the same type of uh responsibility and that documentation could be uh as is often understood in certain areas a illegal title but the documentation can take many different forms as long as the government is willing to protect it and so one could have a situation where a community has uh title to the an entire area of land in people within the that community by the fact that their members of the community have rights to that land the question there is can you show somewhere that you are a member of that community we want to make sure that people do not fall through the cracks and something happens later and the community lives lives and behind or the government lives and behind or their family lives and behind yeah all right so we're going to move to the last 10 minutes of the webinar so I'm going to hurry up with the question so it's a one question because we talk about partnership building particularly with the private sector so the question is how can the private sector especially the land documentation technology you know I think meant owned by the private sector partner with the non-profit sector and ensure they are having a positive impact so basically how can private sector engage with the non-profit sector because anyone more uh anyone of you want to take this question yeah Diana please go ahead I think I can see you nodding your head I think Patricia was jumping to try to answer Patricia out it's up to you Diana first you go and then we go to Patricia okay yeah I mean of course like like like with government and with civil society there are many different ways in which the private sector can engage so I want to make sure we we value all the the different ranges of contributions that can be made um number one they can institute good practices when they are starting or expanding their operations in a certain area they are very well positioned to try to ensure that there's clarity in who has what rights and how those rights are protected and they are in a position to enforce other actors through the value change to comply to those same standards as well in addition to that in many countries the private sector or at least certain actors in the private sector have a very specific open door or more open door to compel the governments to act and to implement either to introduce legal changes or to implement them or to regulate them in a way that allows everybody to have more clarity about those rights and to be more transparent about what's going on we have to be careful though because under current circumstances and I'm thinking of the pandemic governments are going to be strapped for resources and this is therefore a time where there are plenty of opportunities for stakeholders of all groups to sidestep good guidelines private sector can also have help with data can also help with lessons there and so forth so so there are many challenges that that we can consider yeah okay Patricia in the interest of the time I'm going to post a different question to you and the question is about it says the land rights picture in general for women women's tenure security is rather grim do any of the panelists have a positive story on successful women land rights in terms of SDG targets met that's what the question so the question is we want to hear a positive story is there a positive story that we can share with Patricia I think yes yes there are many positive stories I think that you know learning that I'm not against monitoring or informing creating reports but we have to be asked I had many conversations we have to be actionable and action happens on the ground we have very many positive stories of ensuring land security what we want and the private sector has a whole and a huge whole as the donor as the international community has an obligation to help especially in this phase of post COVID because post COVID is going to be a threat we if you look at the we have to take a step back and look at the spirit of the SDG agenda as a whole and say we have to buy this and not just think about land in isolation but the intersectionality we are talking about water we are talking about everything so we have very nice positive stories it can happen it can happen if civil society and what I'm going to talk about data and building evidence the importance of building evidence in Brazil we are very lucky we have national statistics data demographics sensors agriculture sensors and using these to create analysis from a gender perspective and informing governments and the private sector is here to like to build the platforms so that all this data can be accessed everywhere women on the ground in very remote areas are using technology we are meeting we are doing our capacity building through this high technology so it is there is a lot of action there is a lot of examples we have to do tomorrow I have a meeting with our friends from the feminist land platform we have to learn from each other it's not just working on the very ground but creating evidence creating stories creating let's say synergy establishing these huge platforms so that's the good news okay so I think before we wind up this because we are moving to the last five minutes there's a very important this can can this can be a comment though it's a question so it says hello panelist this is a good initiative it would be good to discuss what the custodians have done and what tools are available available reporting is not just by CSOs but also by the governments they have a