 Welcome to the drum history podcast. I'm your host Bart van der Zee and today I'm joined by Pete Jarvis who is a drummer percussionist a ranger performer composer conductor Pete you have a lot of hats welcome to the show Thank you very much part. Yeah, so I am really honored to have you on the show. You you've really really had an amazing career I want to give a quick shout out before we even start to Tim Northup and Jim Messina Who both were talking and said we got to get Pete over to Bart to get him on the show and a couple days later Here we are. So I love how quick it was. Yes, and I would like to thank Tim and Jim as well Yeah, and alright, so the topic for today, which I mean I just want to talk about you and your life but I think the key thing that we're gonna kind of take away from this for people who are listening because I like to have a topic is Really how to have a career that's that's long and that's multifaceted and it's not just One gig and then you're kind of done or you're waiting a year for the other one when we spoke on the phone yesterday, I Got up a lot from you just of once you're doing one gig you got to be working on your next one So that's sort of what we're gonna get to and you've done a lot of film TV Conducting Broadway just an amazing amount of stuff, but that being said why don't you tell us about You first like what got you into drumming and music and how you became the sort of Renaissance man that you are today at an early age For me and it seems like an early age 10, of course some people start much younger I just took the opportunity to join the school band when that opportunity became available And I immediately became interested in drums And it was not on a particularly serious level. I loved it and I Immediately became completely immersed in it it took over all of my my interests Yeah outside of school in other words until then I was more involved with the league baseball and things like that and I Became far less interested in those things and immediately gravitated toward music and From that point forward there was really just no turning back. It's just been a Just a straight course ahead with music. Yeah, I always think it's pretty amazing to think of just You don't realize as a little boy in school that this thing that you're doing in this class is Going to shape the rest of your life, but I guess that's true with a little kid boy or girl who likes science They might become a scientist. You don't realize when you're that young when you're 10 years old that oh I'm gonna be doing this for the next 50 years 50 plus years It's pretty cool Yeah, it is amazing. I mean I certainly I mean what 10-year-old kid really Well, there's certainly be very rare 10-year-old kid that had a sense of what they wanted to do with the rest of their life At the age of 10, and I'm not sure I did in fact. I'm reasonably sure I did one thing. I do know is That playing drums and being in this school band Was the thing that I enjoyed more than any other thing. That's great. So Then how did you then take it from something that you love? To something that you get paid to do, you know, how did that switch happen? Obviously not as a 10-year-old. I'm sure you played for years and played with school band, but how did you kind of? How did you go from an amateur to a professional? I studied at the end of high school before I? when I chose to go on to College to major in music. I was fortunate get connected to an exceptional teacher exceptional drummer Joey Cass and I remember The first lesson very first lesson I had with Joey was he asked me what I wanted to do with drums and I told him I wanted to Play on Broadway and play shows because I'd done them in high school. I just I just loved them And he said okay, that's fine, but not the answer I'm looking for And he went on to to explain that what I needed to do at that point Was simply play everything that came up Take every opportunity No matter what it is and say no to nothing because I didn't know enough at that point he pointed out to me to make such a Decision of a sort of a specialized Nature aspect of of the business he said what you need to do now is get yourself exposed to everything you can get You're exposed to learn as much as you can learn and go to school for music And then after a while you've been to say Well, this is where I would like to Yeah Focus this is where I'd like to turn some focused attention And I took that advice and I started playing in everything I could play and I played in the local marching band on the Memorial Day Parade 4th of July and so forth The New York, New Jersey volunteer fireman's association marching band That's an awful and we did and you know, we did we did these gigs and On those days and we made a little bit of money for it. I really enjoyed that And I got in a rock band and Just it kept playing in the school bands tried to do the Summer productions and all the musicals just tried to do absolutely everything that I could do Following Joey Cass's advice Then when I went into college I met another one of my mentors who had a very specific course of study and I get I took that very seriously studying new music and percussion ensemble and then of course with that comes studying malice timpani and you know all the many aspects of And I went on with that and felt like I got a little bit of training that Perhaps enabled me to Branch out and and see where I might be able to fit in. Hmm. That's awesome So I just love First off out of all of that. I just love the idea of saying no to nothing Which it's just very cool because I think you need to take on a lot of experiences which you know sometimes it's easier said than done because it's like that's a lot of work and It's it's kind of easy to say no, I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna be a rock drummer, but When you're not saying no to things and you're just going alright, I'll do it I'll do it. I'll do it. You'll you'll get so much experience and and that Those experiences had to also make relationships with people which I'm assuming we'll learn about this more later But relationships with other musicians and people in general as we all know as musicians is so important. So I think you Getting all this experience with not only the players and performing But just working with a bunch of different personality types and and all this things that that had to be helpful in the future Absolutely critical as as I look back at it at the time I was just doing it and I was enjoying it I did find as I was moving along especially at that stage of my life my first Was advised to do that You know, I was a high school kid at that at that stage of my life You know, I just enjoyed everything. I just enjoyed just playing period. I didn't care what it what it was I was fortunate to get the opportunity to play in a big band and That was a wonderful experience. So while I was playing in the marching band and rock bands I was also playing in a big band and doing everything I could do and Although I had already been into it and interested in it for years That same teacher Joey Kass really stressed the importance of reading music and That there was no no substitute for that and you just simply needed to put in whatever time was required to Sure, I'm proficient at that. Yeah, don't let me get ahead here But you you've got I just think a really cool Subject that you've worked on is is I know this didn't happen right out of college or whatever I'm sure it took some time, but I'd love to discuss And we can jump around chronologically, but your your work on film TV And and even getting into Broadway and stuff like that, but I've had some people ask about How Film drumming works Particularly with movies that have a very drum focused Score like people typically think of like Birdman with like Antonio Sanchez and things like that now you have worked on You worked on Moonrise Kingdom by the film by Wes Anderson Which just was just awesome his movies are all just really really cool and and the music is great How did you get into? That Role and then I want to talk about the actual process of what it was like to record and and scoring a Movie like that a big big Golden Globe nominated movie for the best score. What was that like and how did you get into? making music for film Well, it's almost a funny story how I got into it, but it's I just second But it does directly tie into what we were just talking about I think one of the reasons that I Was first contacted by West's office was because my experiences Were so vast I had my hands and so many different things that it Aspects of music that I think it made me seem qualified to at least get a shot from them that is to say He was looking for somebody Do the movie the friend who has seen it for those of you have not the movie has a lot of percussion moments in it where it's sort of marching band type Music behind these scenes of Boy Scouts marching Fed Norton and so forth and West wanted somebody who was a composer a percussionist a Conductor and Someone who had access to a lot of percussion players So that's four very specific things. Yeah, and and I had that I don't know exactly how it worked I imagine I don't know this but I would imagine That he had one of his interns or somebody search for Those Qualifications or search for somebody that met those qualifications and I guess it is Search my name came up because I had never done any film music There's a brand new experience today Yeah, and I and I guess if you're looking for again a conductor percussionist composer and Somebody who has access to percussion players and you search for that it's not going to take a long time before my name Comes up because I was a director of the New Jersey percussion ensemble I've been conducting for years composing for years and Playing for years. So, uh, I think it from there He just gave me a shot and the funny part of the story that I alluded to earlier was I Was in the library one of the schools where I was teaching and It was the first week of those school, you know first week of September or if you know very early September the first week of school and like most of us I tend not to Open emails when I don't recognize sure the name the sender Yeah, so here's an email from a name. I didn't recognize I was just about to delete it And I said, you know what? It's the first week of school. Yeah Perhaps it's a student who has a question about registration and somebody wants to get involved and you know Doesn't quite know the ropes yet And so I said, what let me open it up and so I open the email and it turned out to be from West's office saying west sanderson Uh, we'd like to invite you to come and talk to him about his movies. Oh, man. Would you be interested in doing that? Hey, geez good thing, you know delete that Uh, yes, you know, I'd be interested in doing that and then uh Yeah, for sure. Um, I I hope that he would have found me one way or another. That's the funny part But I mean, I was one of the nicest breaks I had and I I came Within seconds of deleting it Uh, and never even seeing the email you're obviously a very established musician You've done some very big things, but I think for everyone in the entertainment You know overarching Like subject, which is all of us Were you just like over the moon? I mean to be invited to do like to work on a movie That's like a very specific special kind of of thing. I mean you must have just been blown away Yeah, I was I I was blown away. Uh, I was surprised, um because I didn't know what He was looking for so I didn't know that There were three or four so particular things that I happen to have experiences. So I was wondering why He was contacting me to be perfectly honest with you. Uh, so Yeah, I was over the moon to say the least and uh, I got back to him and then we set up a meeting and I went and met him in new york and watched the movie uh Some of it's still on green screen and he said what he wanted this that the other thing and uh asked if I could Get that done and I said, yes, I could get that done and he gave me a chance and uh He ended up being satisfied with my work. Wow and here again. It was he did say In the interview in our meeting that He wanted to be sure that I could Have access to any number of percussion players that we might need it turned out we needed Four besides may uh, and he said he wanted to be uh Sure that if something needed to be conducted in the percussion music that I could do that and we just went on over there for basic Needs that he immediately had for this project this aspect of the project and uh He was satisfied that I was qualified and he gave me a chance. Hmm now, uh From so once you get the gig and all that stuff, um, I want to talk more about even the specifics of how it works because I've had um a request for an episode a while ago from Uh, owen van houten. I think I'm pronouncing your last name right owen about film Drums and film and animation and he actually specifically said uh Isle of Dogs which was a west anderson movie which which had like taiko drumming With the like it's almost like claymation kind of stop motion stuff on screen But we're we're still I think we're we're pretty darn close with a west anderson movie that had a lot of drumming So I think we can speak to it a little bit. Um All right, so how did that go? Were you then because you're in you're in new york at that point I'm assuming west anderson was doing things in in california Well, his cutting room is in new york or maybe I should say maybe I should say one of his cutting was for all I know he has more than one but but here in a cutting room in new york, uh And it was working out of there all the time and I live in new jersey just 20 minutes outside of new york So yeah getting getting back and forth all that was Just just no issue now. Did you choose a studio to record in your so obviously you composed The music you did know that but did you choose a studio of your? Uh liking to actually do the recording or was it like a west anderson kind of approved come into the studio set up How did the recording process go? uh, the recording was done at Uh electric lady, which is a studio that in grenadette village, which is of course jimmy uh the studio jimmy hendricks designed and built uh I guess back in the late 60s uh Middle or late 60s and west west chose that uh for a couple reasons They do Have an incredible mixing board as I understood it It's one of only a handful. I think under five remaining in the world. It's a very unique Mixing board and it's An incredible recording studio. I mean it really is it really is top of the line and of the engineer That west works with or one of the engineers west works Certainly the one he was working with on this project works out of that studio And it was just right in grenadette village. It was just right, you know, it was very accessible to all involved So uh now west west picked that it it seems very west anderson to to record there I think everyone who's familiar with this work and if you're not google it There's the royal tenon balms and darjeeling limited and and all these isle of dogs all these movies are great They have a feel no one can deny that there is not a west anderson Style uh life aquatic. I mean it just you can watch it for 30 seconds and go. Oh, that's a west anderson movie No question about that. Yeah, so that that feels like that So so you then would perform your pieces. Would you have a screen up? Watching the uh film or were you more just I know what I need to do He would he would he would be running uh the scenes For us that we'd be and we'd be playing Watching the scene that the music was for Uh, actually when you mentioned some of those other movies and had their uniquely west's Uh style and and so forth. I I couldn't agree with you more That was one of the things that helped me that one of the observations that helped me Move the project probably in a way that helped me ultimately get the final gig because the very first thing I did was Get all of his movies Of course, uh and and watch all of his movies and One of the things I noticed right away was exactly what you just said Uh, you know, you can watch just just very brief moment of it and you realize right away This could only be west anderson and although they were all uniquely his style and uniquely his work They were in no way similar. No And so I realized that uh from watching all those movies the one thing or one of the things I didn't want to do was Try and duplicate or emulate in any way the the music that was on these other The soundtracks of these other movies that sometimes you'll find That happens in movies, you know, the music ends up sounding sometimes Similar as stage you might seem similar or other aspects of it might seem similar when you're working with the same director But in west's case it seemed like in each movie the music fit The character of the movie the particular scene and so on and so forth and It had to be unique to the moment and so that I felt to be liberating When it came time to actually compose in music Yeah, so I didn't feel like I needed to try and and sound like somebody else or You know work along the lines as somebody else worked I just needed to look at the scenes deal with the scenes and write the music that I thought best fit it and that was uh Uh That was real as I say that was really liberating. Yeah, and it's a unique film where it's the the little kids who were kind of having like a the Boy Scout Uh camp it turns kind of military and with that sort of drumming that you're talking about and I need to re why I haven't seen it in a few years. I need I need to rewatch it now that we've been talking about it and I can Uh, it's almost like you hear it in a different way when you know the person involved So I kind of oh, yeah, sure rewatch it but all right, so uh one last thing about the film stuff and then I want to maybe Talk about some other things with your career, but get to the point of like how can people take you as an example and uh learn from it and make their own 50 plus year career. Let's talk about boardwalk empire which for people who don't know was an HBO series that was uh Just really cool. It was about Atlantic City. It had Steve Buscemi and a bunch of great actors I really enjoyed it. Um Martin Scorsese directed it. Is that right? Produced it. I didn't think there were various directors. It was on for five seasons I think throughout the time different different people got involved directly, but but martin squish easy was uh The the producer so did that come directly because of your previous film experience? That was obviously post moonrise kingdom correct, right and that's a another kind of story that in a very loose way ties back to The very first thing I talked about where you know do everything. You never know what's going to come out of it uh as my first uh mentor suggested it We were recording moonrise kingdom And I stayed on wait after one session. So all the percussionists were gone because we were going to add a timpani part to a benjamin britain piece which was all strings Uh and west wanted to add a timpani part to it. So I wrote the timpani part and when it came time to record it It was just going to be me playing so all the percussionists, you know, we're done and they left and that was just me and west and the engineer and uh Uh The music supervisor and the music supervisor, which I didn't know at the time Uh just through my experience the music supervisor plays a very important role in in every aspect of the music on a movie and uh Music supervisor was there and it happened to be The same music supervisor for boardwalk Empire so now we're finishing up this recording session We're adding the timpani as I said and uh in moonrise kingdom And they were about to add some music to a scene In the second season of boardwalk empire um I could describe the scenes that stands out so much a lot of people remember that happened to be on the boardwalk and it's kind of violent scene the A couple of people end up really beaten down on a police officer and marty bayne comes around the corner and um anyway, uh, they were about to add some drums to go along with frankly the violence of the uh Of the scene and There was somebody there who wasn't really a drummer but played a little bit of had a little bit of drum experience and he was going to play And uh, I happened to be there finished the other one and music supervisor said would you like to stick around and play for You know another hour or two and I said, you know, absolutely. Yeah, and uh, I said, what do you have in mind? He said, well, we're gonna add some music to this scene in boardwalk empire And it was just they were just filming the second year and I hadn't seen the first season so I really didn't know what our boardwalk empire was. I mean, I had not seen it and uh I said sure. He said we're going to do a scenes where and when he said that it didn't light up my face or anything he said Have you ever seen I said, you know, I got to be honest. No, I'm afraid. I don't I don't know what that is and uh He said well, you want to explain to me was an hbo series and so forth and he said so would you like to uh Improvise some drums over this scene and I said yes and then did that uh and then from there Apparently he was satisfied with my work because I went on to be To include music over the next the remaining four seasons. Wow So that was a case of Being in the right place at the right time. I mean I finished up Of recording session The music supervisor was the music supervisor for the next recording session And he said well Why don't you just go play the drums for this and I said love to and then I was in boardwalk empire for the next five years and I mean it's uh You don't know what's going to lead to the next thing I I've had that experience with working on the dialogue Stuff that I've I explained to you on the phone that I that I've done where you fix people's lines You do all this stuff, but I've had it where it's the person who's like the the adr mixer Or whatever's on the on the line with you They might say oh, I like that studio Let's work with them again or and then maybe three or four times in Like I worked on a bunch of the dick wolf like chicago med Uh chicago pd law and order and it was like the same person and it was like Oh, yeah, they like you they can trust you no one wants to go out and try New people all the time and have different results like with you and boardwalk empire It's like oh, yeah, Pete's great get Pete back, you know Yeah, I was lucky and he didn't even have to to get me back I mean I was standing there in a room there was percussion equipment all over the place Yeah, the guy said you want to go play drums and there was a drum set. You know, I said Yes, I do I always found it fascinating that that work where you were just speaking about that you do with the uh Yeah, the dialogue replacement voice Is synchronization also that you're working on? Yeah, I mean it's been COVID. I haven't done it in about a year and a half or whatever But yeah, so it'll be a couple different things where uh, um, like the the actor sometimes they'll be turned They're like uh, my my boss worked on uh, like the hunger games where pita, you know the the josh, um Hutcherson I think is his name his back was to it and he's like yelling and it got kind of messed up So you can when their back is turned you can put in whatever you want, you know like you can if you don't see their mouth you can have them say whatever they want, but um If you want if the cat if the actor's facing you then yeah, you do you drop in your three beeps And then on the invisible fourth beep. That's when the actor would drop in his lines like um Like I did uh speaking of HBO. I worked on the deuce, um, which was a you know, uh, James Franco and Maggie Gyllenhaal and all these people I worked on like a smaller kind of side actor who was in town, but but yeah, his mouth is on screen So you'd I would have my cue sheet. I would um line it up where I used actually I think the drumming the the it's kind of minor but the rhythm of beep beep beep Come on, baby would be like the line that he did it was really short He just needed to fix it of saying come on baby or something like that So I used the invisible right on that fourth beep is when he does his line And I roll six or seven takes of it. Uh, I loop it and I just send the the crew from HBO or whoever them film whatever it is The the file, but if you do animated stuff, it's totally different where there's no sync to picture Uh, you're just recording Dialogue like the newer the latest one I did was the trolls movie and you're uh, you're just recording lines There's no they don't have the um animation yet. So you can just record um You just record it out in the wild and I I just think the crazy thing about this is let's say on a movie It it's kind of a testament to west anderson and those guys you're an electric lady recording these drum parts He's simultaneously got people recording Dialogue replacement with all these other actors when all the other actors are probably in different cities or countries working on their next movie the the orchestration of Getting everything done is just unbelievable. You know Yes, uh, the the scheduling and the overlapping of the tasks and so forth is uh An art form world to itself. Yeah, absolutely It's cool stuff now now to keep again with our theme of advice for people to have a long career What tips would you maybe give to our listeners or a student of yours or anyone? I know that it's just don't say no to things just keep doing it but Is there any tips you would have on how to get into working on? Uh films of any level. I mean you're not going to start out day one working on west anderson movies. Um Any tips you can give people? I really wish there were because I would suggest I could make a suggestion But I don't know that it would lead to anything and one of the things that I would first suggest to A young composer or any composer who wants to get involved with film would be to get involved with film and One of the ways you need to do that I think is to be willing to take some chances Be willing to invest some time in something that you know Might not necessarily Go where you would like it to go and that's one of the chances I'm talking about taking. Yeah, so I would say And perhaps this might be a little bit easier in the new york area because there's so much Film being made on all levels. There's a lot of Schools universities and colleges and film schools There's just so much film being made by by students and they Very often need music. Yeah, so I would say if you were a young composer you should Find these places And get down there and meet the young filmmakers You need to establish In my opinion and this goes beyond filmmaking, but I think you need to establish relationships with people of your generation uh, so if you're A young composer you should try and get involved with some young filmmakers. They tend to see things perhaps through uh A similar lens because of the Their their age might be similar and they have a similar Sometimes view of of the world and and where we live And that makes it perhaps easier to Relate to one another. You're not trying to relate your art to their art when You have such different points of reference in your life. So I I think uh, just by How long you've been alive? Uh, I think it's very important to get down to A film school and and get in there and I don't know maybe go at lunch time Meet some young filmmakers and say hey, are you you know Young film here you're making a film, you know, I Want to write some music, you know, perhaps we can collaborate and Things like that. I think you just need to go to where the film is being made And get yourself involved just just introduce yourself to the people and meet people and and watch and keep an open mind and Be willing to be part of something is very important not necessarily feel like You're running something it's very important to realize that It might be looked at as you producing music For someone else's movie not to find a movie that fits your music and and be willing to to Look at it in in Ways that don't necessarily Put you right away at the top And and be willing to to work on that and when I said earlier you take some chances Well those projects could take months Then months and they might just absolutely flop And and and now you've invested months Uh, so patience is in order Uh, no one likes to hear that but it's true. Yeah Patience is in order and of course You want to try and use good judgment involve yourself with Things that you're interested in things that you think you can Add to or things that can You know, you can mutually compliment each other and Have some patience trying to trying to put it together And I think use your judgment with anything It just seems like also you need to If if you're working with people in a film where you go, this is weird This doesn't feel right. This is like shady something's going on here Um, you don't want it to hurt your reputation by being associated with something where they're not paying people or or things are getting um Just you know use your use your judgment too I think is is key and I want to also ask you so this seems We kind of skimmed over it, but so You're a drummer like and a percussionist now. How does a drummer percussionist become a composer? Are you? Uh Literate in writing music for all different types of instruments. Do you play other instruments? How how are you? Able to be a composer if you're a drummer and a percussionist Well, I do not play other instruments But I feel quite literate in many many instruments certainly of the Perhaps western orchestral World You know the strings the wind I feel I feel pretty good about Knowing something about those instruments Of not it not at all how to play it's like when people can read a language, but not speak it kind of thing I can understand what you mean there, but uh, there were a couple ways where I felt like I became comfortable with other instruments first Through playing chamber music okay, uh Where you were playing with In oh say a sextet that has one percussion and five other instruments or something like that It's just a random example to be anything. Uh You have to begin to become familiar with those instruments in order to make the music work in order to make the music When be comfortable and do all the things that we know music needs to do all these things We're familiar with in order to do that You've got to spend some time Working with people playing those instruments and Trying to get to understand what they do and and let them see what you do and and through that that work You can begin to develop some of that some of that experience and knowledge, but then secondly Perhaps more importantly on some levels Uh, perhaps I don't know I became a conductor very early on once I got to uh The university level of studying and I was fortunate enough to get to conduct a very good group and I was fortunate enough to Also get to conduct students and that I learned a tremendous amount from that because there was no rush You know when you're conducting a professional situation very often You just start rehearsing and before you know what the concert comes up There's not a lot of time to do everything. You know, you're working with professionals Everybody knows what to do And you do it and you kind of help organize it and stuff like that, but You know, everybody already Knows their job and and knows how to do it or they wouldn't be there. That's one situation. Sure when you're conducting with students It's a different situation and there's not usually a deadline You can start working on a piece for example at the beginning of a school year in september or october Maybe not have a concert till march and maybe in that in that Interim you can have 20 rehearsals Well, that's where you can really take stuff apart and put it back together and really get to understand somebody intricacies of how these instruments interact with one another and and All the things that we know they do so conducting students and conducting professionals ideally At the best at the same time and then even better When you have a professional group that is well mented by students Uh, it's that can that could really be a an ear opening experience We can constantly compare the two and see What makes one one what wakes the other the other? Yeah, so conducting I think is uh The very short answer to your to your question So yeah, that's no that's perfect and I mean As we you know Getting towards the end of the episode. I'd love to just kind of focus in on on what we said originally was the real topic at hand here and you told me some great stuff when we spoke on the phone the other day that I'd love to share with people about um Really how you play on for a long career and just talking about how you're planning for your next gig Because one key takeaway I've gotten so far is is you're not Uh, I'm sure people like there's many drummers who just do Broadway and it's great. They just do film stuff It's great, but you have taken the route of having um a very very diverse career and and obviously That's led to you having many different jobs over the years What would you recommend? Let's take some time to talk about what you would recommend for people on having a a long um Like I said diverse career Actually, I'd like to say at the outset because I think it's relevant My experience on Broadway is is really quite minimal. Um, I haven't I haven't played on Broadway much at all but it didn't take much for it to become relevant to me in terms of how to Just have another tool Sort of that available and and use what I learned in that experience in other experiences and I think that's really important to to to Get what you can learn from from situations no matter where you are in your career And have something else to apply to the next next day You're never finished learning a sort of quick answer, but not not You know to really have a long career. It's got to be 24 seven I mean you have to live music eat music drink dream music everything about you know just Beginning to end every day. That's just what you do. Uh, and you never finish but One of the things that I was saying which you just alluded to in your question was in the planning I do tend to plan long term and short term and to a younger student perhaps When I'm thinking of by more longer term Would be perhaps a little more difficult to relate to because perhaps some of them are at very early stages and are 20 years old but when I started composing I did it planning for what would happen 20 years later And I was already in the middle of a large part of my career. Why was that? Well, it was actually in 1998 I already even though I was playing for when I was 10. It was really when I got to college that I started getting Professional gigs and that was 1977 78. So In 1998 I had about 20 years in and I started planning For what I would be doing 20 years later, uh, I started to think that Percussionist and I had noticed percussionist retiring a little bit earlier than perhaps some other musicians because of the physical Demands of it schlepping equipment and getting around said I'm just just was physically demanded as a percussionist, I would say almost in the same way where A basketball player's knees give out And even though they they still understand basketball and they can still be in great shape and they can still do all the things that they have to do but Their knees don't work anymore Uh, you know these kinds of these kinds of things. Well, I I thought percussion Playing and I feel like I had seen it with other percussionists happen And I simply didn't want to be out of the game at that point That was one of the reasons I started composing Uh Because I wanted to start then because I figured some 20 years later Which is now two or three years ago because this was in 1998 I was hoping if 20 years later, I had to stop playing which I have not I don't intend to stop for quite some time But if in 20 years or so when I reached around 60, I had to stop playing I didn't want to have the next part of my career Have to be approached as a beginner Yeah, I wanted to have 20 years of experience Composing so At the point where composing might take over As the focal point of my career I wanted a couple decades of experience so I might be able to actually do something and enter that world Uh as something other than a beginner. So that was the sense of of what I would consider to be longer term planning and I have plans for You know 20 years from now, but in shorter term I simply Try to never be doing a project without another project In my mind if not in the planning stages so that went up because sometimes when you finish a project There could be that sort of moment of Avoid Yeah Well, you don't have anything to do and you got to look for the next thing to do or wait for the next Thing to do or feel like okay. That's done now I'm going to spend some time catching up on all the things that I neglected and all these things that we know about but Of those I think the most important one is finishing a job and you emotionally can have a moment where Now nothing's happening and it can be hard to get out of that it can be Hard to find something to start and and trying to get that level of passion up that You concluded your last project that so I try to overlap them Whenever I'm on a project I I know what the next project is It's not what the next several projects going to be or at least what I would like them to be Or I'm trying to move in that direction That keeps me moving and as long as I'm moving and moving forward I feel like I can stay in the game and then Like I said the longer term planning Gives you a direction to try and move in so what I what I just Do is not necessarily random. I mean if I have nothing at the moment And something comes up. I'm going to do it just about no matter what it is, but I try and Pick and choose the things that I involve myself with to help Realize my long term plans Yeah, I mean that is just So many things in there are just so uh, I mean the key takeaway is just always have something Next in the books. I I have a client who I do video work for Every other week and it's I mean it's a substantial part of my income and but the downside of it is Is this is one guy where I go and film and I do these I live well during coven I live stream these seminars that are six hours long for Psychologists not drum related, but again if you're going to do video and audio you got out You're not it's not all working on movies and stuff so But if if he cancels one day out of the month, it's like oh geez there goes a check that is Uh a substantial portion like I said of like a monthly income So it's you you're so smart to be planning ahead and I think that's cross It yes, it's drumming which is what we're here to talk about or playing music, but um, that's kind of smart in life in general It's just to to kind of have something going on on in the you know around the bend to be working on to be growing to be um kind of moving up always growing Is a key thing that I think you you are obviously Very smart about what motivates you. I mean you have to you're a human You have to have these days or months or weeks where you're like, I just don't feel like doing this I'm I'm I'm happy with how things are right now. What what pushes you forward? A couple things push me forward, but one of them is the reality certainly in the new york area where If you don't answer the phone a couple times or you say no too many times in a row they stop asking There's a lot of cats around here and that can be An advantage or perhaps a disadvantage, but if you say no to gigs too many times there are an incredible amount of people who will take that gig and once a producer Who's ever running a gig director of a group whoever it might be Gets used to one person saying no And another person saying yes the first call goes to the person who said yes sometimes You have to say yes to things that you might not necessarily Feel like doing at the time, but you just know that that You don't want to lose your Sort of uh Spot on the on the front of the mind of the contract So part of the time and again is it's it's thinking of of longevity that just comes with the nature of the business that that You know what I hate to put it, but you know, what have you done for me lately? You know these old cliches and and you know, you're as good as your last gig and You know if people can't even remember your last gig they're not calling you for the next You know, you just you just feel you know to maintain a career I feel like part of it is to just just stay active and then to be Perfectly honest at times where you know like you said everyone feels like yes, you know not today Not whatever, you know, I could I just don't do it You know, I mean there's this time I'm going to stop and do something else But uh, they don't come up quite as frequently as the times when I keep going Uh, but yeah, if you if you need a day off take a day off. I mean that that's that's probably critical to to producing Producing good work, you know one thing that That sort of ties into a couple of the things that You you mentioned and as you said we're getting near the end Uh, I could speak with you all day, but whereas we get near the end One other bit of advice I would Offer particularly to to younger players Is to follow the advice Of people Who know what they're talking about Now that gets a little vague know what they're talking about. What does that mean? But I and I don't know that I know myself, but I do know that there's a lot of students who ask their teachers questions or just have Information volunteered from their teachers and they just don't follow the advice Yeah, and they don't understand that they they don't have the perspective of somebody with more experience and You need to follow the advice in my opinion Of those who have these experiences Behind them and I really find that to be perhaps missing in in some younger students who naturally are a little bit less patient and really want to like Jump right to the end game And sure skip some of the steps that might be advised to them a long way I do not recommend that no and I also think too one last note that I've always kind of found and I've spoken about on the show too Is you never know who's watching you play? You never know who's listening like I with every episode I do of these shows It's like you never know where this is going to take you and who's going to hear it So make every episode count make every performance count Um, because again, even the simplest little gig if you kind of throw it away. Oh Uh, west anderson might have been in the audience or something like that, you know, oh boy Yes, and yes, um, and now yeah, I I hope everybody, uh Really heard and paid attention to what you just said Uh going back again to what I was just saying about following advice Even if you have to take your time at that another one of my mentors I have three or four and another one of my mentors Told me back in the 80s is significant that it was the 80s because the first piece I wrote was in 1998 And he told me back in the 80s that He thought college students Should spend time composing Conducting and performance Now how that time gets divided up Would be of course based on what your majors if your performance major then, you know The lion's share was going to be performed, but you still need to Compose and conduct and of course your composer the lion's share will be composing and so on and so forth but he did say that it it's He felt it was important for Performers to know what a conductor is is thinking and trying to do and the way to do that is to learn something about conducting and vice versa and composers need to be able to Think somewhat like a performer to some degree to understand what performers Needs are and performers need to be able to put themselves in the shoes of composers so that they can and and the way all of these three things can relate to each other and I remember that that advice very very, you know, really Took took root, but I was focusing on my playing and conducting very strongly at the time very slowly many many hours, you know, just really focused work and In 1998 which was now about 15 years or so after he told me that or at least over 10 I said okay now i'm gonna finish that third Step that I was told was critical Uh, so it took me 10 years to get started, but then I started composing And that was another reason that I started composing a question. Yes, really it was because one of my mentors said you need to compose conduct and play to Really get perspective on this and I was already playing in conducting so I thought at time to uh follow the man's advice and start composing Yeah Absolutely. Well, you gotta I don't know you have to be a little bit of a self starter too on top of all that and just And I just love it take people's advice and all that good stuff and um, I think this has been awesome. I want to um again thank uh tim northup and Jim messina for connecting us and having you share your time with us today And I hope everyone has really enjoyed Getting all this information and just hearing about someone who's had a very very very long career that has not stopped at all Um, pete has been uh kind enough that he's gonna hang out for a couple extra minutes And I want to ask him about another movie he worked on which is ang Lee's Billy Lynn's long halftime walk, uh, which has a really cool story about kind of recreating a marching band kind of Uh sound and the drumming and there's no music and he had to do it anyway And it's a really cool story So if you'd like to hear that bonus episode and all of the other ones that i've done Over the last couple months you can go to drumhistorypodcast.com And there's a patreon button and you can click that and join up and uh, I really appreciate everyone who's been doing it recently got a bunch of new patrons for the show which just helps keep everything going so um On that note, pete, where can people Find you is there a good place that if they want to get in touch with you? Um anything like that? Yeah, but before I give that information, I do want to take a second to thank you Sure for having me and to congratulate you on Your your podcast you've been a hundred and Eight and I guess now maybe this is the hundred ninth that is a lot of episodes. Oh, yeah And congratulations on the great work because uh You bring a lot of information you allow people to access a lot of information They otherwise might not be able to access so Not only congratulations, but thank you It is my pleasure the the the best part is getting to talk to people like you and uh, And have people who I trust recommend people Like you and I I hope it's providing You know joy and I I always get notes from people saying hey, it's really great on my drive home or my commute or Um, you know what i'm working out or sitting out by the fire drinking a beer I listen so I love hearing that stuff. So thank you for saying that. Um And uh on that note pete. Thank you for being here my pleasure. Thank you If you like this podcast find me on social media at drum history And please share rate and leave a review and let me know topics that you would like to learn about the future Until next time keep on learning