 Alright, Alex. Hello. Welcome back to simulation. The fourth time we're sitting down together on the show. Yeah. And let's hear the update. So how have you been? How's Cambridge been? How's the Bay Area been this visit? Okay. Yeah, I've haven't been the Bay Area since like last, last September. So it's like it's like a refreshing of say, hmm, of so of the year, you know, so it's like a refresh of like other places that I missed out on. So the last time that I can get, I can get today, especially since a lot of things have updated since then. I have a better, a lot of communities have also changed so quickly over time. Yeah, I visited originally came back to the Bay Area because I was I was basically adorned by a Lyrd by a certain Bay by an anti an Asian American Association, Asian Association thing by Junion. Junion basically hosted an event, an Asian Association event, which was a colossal with AAS. So I ended up going there. I ended up getting Cosmo meal key to come there too. And yeah, it was like, it was like a gathering of like all the top of the top important Asian districts in the US, which is important, especially because I know with this, especially in what aging is that once you're interested in it, you cannot be uninterested in it because it affects everything like it affects the rest of your entire life. And most of mostly will stay most of the lives in an age state rather than in the most optimal useful states than they exist. But anyways, back to the point, me and some of my friends, we got updates on say, what is the what are the hot airs and new people are looking into also current some dynamics. And even though like, I'm generally, I generally prefer online performance of interaction. The fact as a matter that matter is that a lot of a lot of people still do real life with the interaction where you where your fastest learning rates are just local are just local. And also you see which were like, like, extra enthusiastic and getting to know you with repeated exposure to some people over time, you just know which people give you more or more well as you give your information that you can learn faster than reading a dead paper, dead paper, paper book. So yeah. So yeah, some stuff that also I was it was amazing to see be a being a reunion of like Buck Institute and Caper Lane lab people. And if those people who I appreciate doing the most especially because I've had interaction with my Caper Lane lab for quite some time. And also I've interacted with Buck Institute people too. Yeah. You you're reminding me how it's similar for when I go to Cambridge. It's like me also visiting the powerful clusters of people that I didn't that I'm getting either an update that I haven't hung out with you yet. So you're kind of doing that for the Bay Area when you visit here. Yeah. Also, I finally met this one from Braden McLean, who came it came from who's works for crews now. He's like an integrator of a lot of influence I've been exposed to like he lives with Masonic House with the Teal Fellows, a certain two member group house house. And he also was involved with the rationality slash community. So who knows the people there he and because he works on the machine learning algorithms based in he also knows Jeremy Nixon and that South Bay crew. So he's he's the one who basically like knows information flows that he's exposed to a set of integrated information flows. And most people from the North North Bay or South Bay aren't exactly exposed to like who's one of the early less wrong readers. Most people who work on a problems they they're not that interested in most and say big picture A.I. self-improvement stuff that rationalists are into. And people oftentimes hate the rationalists for it. But I still think the rationalists have a lot of merit. Like even Jeremy Nixon, he says and will be and they both say, I don't get what the people so many people hate the rationalist group because they still have a lot going on. Even though they they also have like a lot of thoughts that prevents them from basically being the best, being the people who can save the world, who have the most power to save the world, even though they use to think that that they used to they used to put a dream about saving the world. So yeah, so Brayden MacLean, he's also like kind of knows how he he was also one of the early founders of the Event Horizon House, which was like a legendary house with with loads all over Hebrica and basically, oh, and early Seafire Retreat people choose. So it's like so many important communities. And these communities are just so open about themselves and they have so many people that you just have to get to know know what they are. For those that don't yet know, Alex, which communities would you say you are most involved with? And his the air quality sensor. Yeah, that thing is so important for health and longevity. I agree with you totally. So which ones which ones would you say you aging is one of your hot ones? Would you say now effective altruism is another big one? I'm just I'm just there. I'm not I don't really selfish. I don't I'm like I'm like I just somehow was somehow magically integrated into the information flows of the super well. And since I've been there for a while, I just I'm just like a source and think of information that that's not very many other people are in it, even though like I want to I want to be in other communities. That's yeah, you just learn so much about human nature and human psychology by being an integrated community. Because they're willing to talk about anything and everything. And they have like a shared collective history that you and a group group as group story group theology that starts from early less wrong days. And yeah, just one of the best captured of one of the social groups that that that best have a sense of sense of self, a sense of how it was, how it evolved, like in respect with college, with college, say college culture, a lot of times seen through cycle after four years and people tend to be completely ignorant of what the past was like, even though like I know some people from Catholic who seem to have kept plot of their schools social drama over spirits, over periods that might have lasted like more than eight years, but not much more than that. And for those that weren't at Junyun's event and also the aging conference that you were at in San Jose, what is happening at the cutting edge of aging right now? A lot of things. And I I would not necessarily say that the material discussed there is at the cutting edge. It's very it's presented a way as to be understandable to most of the Asian community. So so I did get to see like so basically like mainstream aging research where it was still like more focus on characteristic of a chromosome dynamics, let's come with some of the dynamics part also like epigenetic genetic measure in the part been working a little bit about measuring epigenetic genetic aging does new measures that new measures that basically. Imagine how an organism age that's like that's like recent state of the art, but it's also not like not exactly George Church cutting edge level of research as in the synthetic biology stuff that changes everything. It's not exactly that. That's still good enough for me to like follow and not get lost like if you show most synthetic biology or gene editing research with that the gene editing that's the cutting edge, but they don't actually know aging that they're the more month development. Yeah. But yeah. And is it that the unraveling of telomeres is the most important part of chromosomal dynamics? No, that's that's just the easiest for most people to understand and internalize. There are so many others like for example, the how lamin A is important for say criminal for for making sure that the chromosomes are translated properly or like or for position of the chromosomes and which part which parts are like tethered to the and they're a way of of tethering the chromosomes that don't become too loose. And oftentimes the process of aging is one where where say the chromosomes are loosened up and and and you lose information about the the precise stoichiometry ratio at which proteins should be translated at which time. Also, one big issue of aging is that oftentimes there is something known as ER stress and gogy stress or also just a lot of times when you have proteins protein unfolding stress in which case like you just have proteins that get translated at inappropriate times and we don't get the localization signal factor in any ways. The point is when proteins are the self-construction sense when sense stress when proteins aren't translated in at the same proportions which then like it gives the ER a stress response. But yeah, anyway, some other points were people went deeper down into say standard metabolic pathways like a tryptophan degradation or flavin adenosine mononucleases and how changing expression of these affects longevity. Also more ways of measuring there, let's say another one is a method development person who basically did use ways of like trying to partition out yeast and use microfluid, the fluid. It's like new microfluid devices too to basically automatically capture a cell separate out cells based on properties. Like I know in the cabriolet lab you usually have a lot of people who did a lot of automated yeast. They wouldn't even automate just counting the yeast cells which he would send a lot of undergrads to do and it wasn't exactly the best use of labor but now that there's been more automated it's also like C. elegans analysis away. So there are people in congestion with like the long-term research institute which they're constantly starting which is basically trying to do ways of automating a testing of all these new drugs and metabolites on C. elegans or that. Also people are trying to find new model organisms which hopefully get and basically like a sort of mechanistic understanding of this. It's still not modification. Modification like enhanced methods of delivery delivery in C. elegans cells is more a synthetic biology or torture stuff or as in traditional aging research. That wasn't really covered in as much depth. It's obvious that you're so deep in the field. Would you say that one of the easiest ways to explain what is aiming to be done is to retain the youthful homeostatic capacity for our rest of our lives? Yeah, the youthful homeostasis according to the ability of a cell to respond to stressors this is one of the things that goes most are with age. Like for example, glutathione it's depleted so quickly with age. It's also depleted so quickly with exposure to cigarette smoke or even e-cigarettes. And this is like one of the reasons that people get hung alcohol hangover so quickly even after the 20s. That's when a lot of things declined but ability to recover from all nighters or stress like this. Basically this is oftentimes with declines first. Yeah, yeah. Okay, and then I wanna also help people get on a super connector level. So that's some aging stuff. Let's talk on a super connector level now. So I'm curious, whenever I come to, when last time I came to Cambridge in May it was very evident that you were going through and making tons and tons of connections to people that we should interview. And it also hit me that Cambridge is another really dense cluster of people that are building the future. And in many ways it's science driven rather than in Silicon Valley in many ways. It's like entrepreneurship driven. So it's kind of some differences there. Everything here is a startup versus there. It's more science research. So it sparked in me the desire to wanna make a second recording studio in Cambridge as soon as possible, hopefully in 2020 and just be able to sit down with more and more people out there more frequently. And I'm curious, how does one end up figuring out this balance? It seems as though you are really heavy on this edge tennis information patch jumping. So you spend most of your time talking to other people about the edge of the field that they're researching. And you jump from conversation to conversation and from edge of field to edge of field. Whereas, for example, like with me I have to spend a pretty decent amount of my time on not talking to people. I have to like actually get into focus mode. And so do you find yourself getting into focus mode as well as the edge tennis that you're playing? Not yet, that's a moment though. I could go to focus mode at any time. Obviously I could like be reading back on some people's all the fucking time. Like the author of FindAgent.org is or like Ben Best or like some of those other people who are like real ageing. Yeah, I just find that for the reason I maximize the amount of information I learn per second if I don't focus and somehow the fact is that I seem to be doing something that no one else is doing, which produces value in itself. So this is as though the amount of cutting edge knowledge per second that you can achieve is greatest when you talk to other people at the edge of their fields about what they're researching and working on rather than reading biochemistry books or papers or watching videos, that type of, yeah. That's one way of doing it. I started off by reading books and papers, which I still think of the fast way. As Jeremy knows, it's the fastest way to really interview if you learn textbooks. So really it's like reading textbooks while in the center of where all activities happen and so long as you have perfect intentional control which very few people have. In fact, earlier today, during that event, Vassar, Jeremy and I were talking about basically like which people seem to be completely in control of themselves and they couldn't name very many people other than let's say Jeff Bezos or Demis Hassebussi. They were also asking which people seemed to be the smart the smart people they know and who were in completely in control of what the intake and outtake and like not bound to weird rules and then the only people they could name were people like Jeff Bezos or Demis Hassebuss, basically completely free and whereas other times like even if you're a CEO, you're still held back by other people and what they expect of you in all those meetings, which apparently is what happens to a lot of Fortune 500 companies and people just don't have the same agency that they used even though it appears they're a super high-statacy, they're the leader of the company, but they still don't exactly have the type of control Jeff Bezos has. So as though that having complete governance over one's own input stream is top priority in life. Yeah, I even asked them if Ray Daller was one of them and they said Ray Daller doesn't exactly have an optimal executive function even though he outputs a lot of stuff away in an amazing way. He might do it in a way to compensate for let's say not being in full control of himself. They were even mentioning stuff about Peter Thiel versus whether about Peter Thiel and Viscari Kasparov and like if Peter Thiel really in as much control over scenes as we like you think he is because he has entire networks that forms around him but it's still like even if you're like a venture capitalist and you start money at people, it's still like you don't have complete ability to control command people. You still have to trust them on words and especially when they don't have the time all the time in the world to do diligence. So I think it would, I think due diligence would, I think there might be a VC who does a perfect way of doing due diligence where they do due diligence on the hyper open people and hyper open people, people willing to be hyper open who might not get other opportunities might sometime in the future get vetted by say a due diligence VC and get an advanced base in that simply because they would allow themselves the possibility of say, because there's a form of trust that happens when you allow yourself to be more, to be tracked a little bit more than other people are willing to be tracked. Okay, so it seems as though there's different colors on the color wheel of people's behavior patterns in our world. So some people are just on the playground, playground earth, just playing. Other people are on the playground but they want to solve problems and make the civilization prosper over time more effectively. And then there's also people that within that subgroup of wanting to make the world better spend most of their time on what you do versus what let's say someone else does, which is you can bounce from conversation to conversation and help push conversations out at the edge of knowledge while other people are maybe doing things like some of the people that work at startups or companies that are actually kind of building things in that are building physical things in the 3D world that then update the code to you. Yeah, and I think the problem is that they can't search for each other very well. Right now, as most, as like the internet, there's a certain type of, there's a certain group of people who are on the edge of the internet that's group of like Devon Zugel or Patrick Kulizan or Tyler Cowan or Topu's house people where they're like, or like Sam Altman where they're like generating into a tweet stream of the edge and it sadly does not contain very many people from Quora which is like a huge, which is a cute thing, because you'd expect that they'd get out to Quora except almost none of them, none of the people that are coming to the edge of the Twitter sphere are like people who used to be big on Quora. But anyways, the point is yeah, it's like you need to figure out how to make it, you need to like really figure out how to make them, easily make one of them explain the value of the other person more to others. Like even if it results in say more crowdfunding or more of way to, like I started to notice the internet edge that this edge is talking about patient systems like Alexi Guza and Patrick Kulizan and that group of people they're all talking about basically trying to build better patient systems, especially because nowadays there's more money available than ever in a sense and most non rent seeking occupation, products are much cheaper than they used to be, even if say the occupational licensing slash rent seeking scenes are driving prices up. But the thing is like it's so much, it's so easy to get new computers or hard drives never before or to like start creating scenes because like the stuff and also programming it's also just easier to program than it was ever before. And let's hit a couple things here. One of the things is that to be in full control of one's own input stream. So this is a, and also being able to decide if you want to build in the 3D world, if you want to just play with different people at the edge of their fields. So to be in full control of that, to know how to designate parts of what you have to do to other people in order for your time to free up and also to the whole embedded growth obligation that these organizations have, we have to figure out because it seems as though at times the corporation may not, we may not want that corporation to continue on their embedded growth trajectory and that it may actually just be better for that company to take a hiatus potentially or even to just break off into separate subsections of an organization or to just stop functionality completely. But the whole thought that the shareholders have to continue earning dividends over time the company has to stay, even though it may actually be harming the social fabric rather than benefiting it. Okay, so that's a bit on the nodes and edge tennis and input streams. And to be in full control of one's input stream so critical, I really enjoyed that point. Now, and not falling for opportunity obesity either, we're so overly saturated with opportunities that we take them without realizing that we can potentially have greater control over hanging out with certain people or reading certain things or doing certain things ourselves that can rocket our ourselves. Sometimes knowing cutting people off is like something that many of the most effective people are known to doing but also cutting people off in ways that doesn't seem rude or- How do you do that? How do you do that? For example, think about Demis Hathabis. He has to cut a lot of people off because whenever he goes, people surround him. Peter Thiel, he also has to cut himself off. Why? I've seen some Peter Thiel talks where at the end of the session, everyone fucking crowds around him. Just think anyone, even the Dalai Lama or like famous kind people, once you reach a certain level of fame, you just have to cut people off because everyone surrounds you. So then you just have to develop an intrepid stream where say, you give people second chances because I think the mark of kindness is literally giving people second chances. Often times, the first question someone tries to approach you with is not exactly the most well-formed question. It may not be the question that people who are true seeking will necessarily go after because they just want a chance to have bragging rights to talk to them or be remembered by that person even though oftentimes people literally go up to fame and people try to be remembered by them or just to have assurance that someone else is not... It's like, can you say something profound enough in the five second window you have with a high power person that they want to pass more time with you and that's a very tough thing to be able to achieve. But it's important to take your time on formulating exactly, compressing a really powerful couple sentences into what someone would think is worthwhile for you to hang out with. Yeah, and also when people talk in real life they don't remember their presence or answer. It's like people ask someone else, what do you think of this or that in real life and neither side remembers it in the long run. That's why I'm generally, I generally have a very high preference in shifting most communication online where people actually will remember things. And then what do you think about the movement which it seems as though it's happening where people are tapping into the social fabric finding their other key, let's say tennis players slash executors that they want to collaborate with and then they kind of unplug from the social fabric so that they don't have to get bing bing bing bing bing bing bing that they can then focus on the things that they want to do. Oh yeah, that's what some people like Yuri Herrera do. I know other people who they have to like, oftentimes they have to announce it publicly in a way so it should demand enforcement and also to make sure that people don't get mad at them in case you do fall off for periods of time. It's like, but you have to maintain the discipline in order to do it. And oftentimes people who have the privilege should do, so people often have a privilege to do that when they are sufficiently socially or financially secure that they don't need to keep them reporting to someone else or their audience. Like they have the confidence that they won't be forgotten or that their friends will actually come back to them or want to come back to them after taking these, like say six months breaks or higher disease. And sometimes even conflicts with people's traditional notes of friendships which I like some friends fall apart because there's asymmetry between how much each side wants to talk to each other and sometimes people have to cut off old friends because of this. Yeah, the asymmetry with how often people wanna talk and also it's as though when your mind gets expanded to new ways of thinking, it's really hard to go back to having conversations that are of old ways of thinking. So that's another one of the things is that we don't, I'm finding myself more and more asking people, what do you do when you have to cut off, Alex? Cause I have to focus more and more of my time alone and not replying to people. And so how do you could disconnect from people, Alex? With politely? I don't disconnect you with people right now. I think the standard way to disconnect you is announcing that you're planning to do it on your blog or social media. It's probably best to do it on your blog or some site where people just Google your name easily and just see that you're disconnecting. Though there's also a challenge in that if you are disconnecting, people may not, you may lose access to say opportunities or some information that might change your life. So then there's a more optimal way to do it. There's a more optimal way to do it potentially which is that you say that, announce on your socials and blogs that you are, that you're very, very selectively staying in touch with certain people right now as you are focused on in build mode. That way people can still reach out and you don't lose on those opportunities but then you can select to reply or not to those people. Yeah, okay, that process seems to be more and more important to figure out how to do. Alex, let's end the conversation on this point, which is you initially came up to me at EAGX in Boston and told me that certain people, and this is actually really good feedback, you told me that certain people won't take interviews with me because I'm not smart enough. And I was like, this is great because I need to hear feedback like this. It's very rare that people are as eccentric as you that they're able to just be like, hey Alan, did you know that some people won't take interviews with you because you're not smart enough? And I found that to be excellent because this is important feedback. And so if we can have more people that behave in this like super transparent, honest way that I think it'll help people grow. So will you deliver the feedback that you gave me then and also that you gave me even before we started streaming here where you were telling me that sometimes the things that I say can sound a little bit like jargon-y and that how I can help you. Not jargon-y, more buzzword-y. Buzzword-y. How can I be a better interviewer in general, please? Okay, so this is, let's see here. One scene is, let me think. First of all, I haven't watched my interviews because I'm like, I prefer text whenever possible. And that's something that's coming guys. It's coming soon that we're gonna have transcriptions for every single episode and knowledge graphs for every episode. Yeah, so that's- Knowledge graphs is gonna be the knowledge graphs. We're gonna work on that. That's gonna come, yeah. Like with Peter Till, it's very, yeah, yeah, this is good. This is very good. And we know that those are really key points on our upcoming agenda. It's, and as you all know that if we can get your help through Patreon, PayPal, cryptocurrency donations, we can more easily get to that point together. So please do support us. All the links are in the bio in order to make that happen. And so that's totally on our agenda, those things. And I'm glad that you mentioned that because it's a frequent thing that we're starting to hear now from people is that I prefer transcriptions. I just wanna parse, find the key points myself or also knowledge graphs that will show you the key points, highlight reels, five minute highlight reel of a one hour episode or also things that we're working on. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so yeah, continue, please, on the feedback. Yeah, so they say that they see, they say you're a bit, but, but where do you, or? Who's they, they say? Like, some people who I've talked to who, who I like some, some people who are like very clear thinkers, like another thing is that maybe the space of things you say is a little bit constrained and not the most creative, perhaps, which means that maybe you're not the most sophisticated or critical thinker or you can't imagine every single, you can't infinitely, your brain can't infinitely adapt to imagining every single way, every single, basically like every possible way of expressing a certain feeling or sentiment. Some people are just more verbal expressing others and they will eventually find a way to create a creative, express a certain sentence. Okay, let me take a couple of things here. One of the things is that. Like verbal agility. Verbal agility, abstract thinking. Let's take a couple things here. One of the things is that the thought of being a generalist which we talked about a little bit, as well as that it becomes, when we're a generalist, it becomes harder to potentially play tennis across all of the different depths of the fields, but we can maybe help make good transfer connections of ideas, transfer learning connections across fields which helps a lot. But the machine, like you said, it's so difficult to actually be able to, you're right, that the amount of creative permutations that one could run on how certain fields could relate to other fields and have me hit back a thought that's really profound, a novel for the other person. I'm not a machine that can do that quite yet in the greatest caliber, maybe when I'm augmented further that I can do that. Coast-graining versus fine-graining. Also, when people use the word transfer learning, it's also often used as a buzzword. Interdisciplinary is also another buzzword. Why are those buzzwords rather than just words? They're so frequently used because they're a way of saying, making people seem sophisticated or making people seem like they're potentially sophisticated or open-minded and there's definitely a certain tendency for people to virtue-signal open-mindedness because open-mindedness is seen as a huge virtue in an information-driven age and whenever it's seen as a virtue, people are inclined to signal that they have more of it than they actually do, even just for social acceptance to be taken seriously or the fact that being open-minded is necessary but not sufficient in order to do it. And in fact, I think a lot of virtue-signaling happens around necessary but not sufficient scenes people have to do in order to actually be serious about something. Okay, and then let's say that where are the ways that an interviewer can stay open-minded? What are the key practices that they can do to stay open-minded but then also not come off buzzword-y? Like I was asking you should I give the question immediately after they finish or should I give a sentence or two and then ask the question? So one thing is sometimes you get people on the list of questions they most want asked or answered sometimes. And that's usually what we do before the show when we sit down as we co-create the outline of what I do. Also sometimes, so one reason why I generally have a strong preference for online performance is online performance are asynchronous and like there's no time pressure. So sometimes like the problem with real life in electros is that once you ask the president they're under pressure to provide an answer response even if it's not a great response or even if it's not a possible response. But anyway the point is a lot of responses need more time to sync up before they actually respond and video editing certainly doesn't make it easier. All the label involves video editing. Which is why we do the live streaming which helps so much with that component. And then, okay and then how about on a what would you, what would be your ideal interview process? Like for you and other people at the edge of the field like these people that say that Alan's not smart enough to interview me yet, right? That type of a person. What would Alan need to do in order, what would the skill be that I need to learn in order to be able to interview smarter people? Okay, I think it would be good you have someone comment on someone who's like, who watches all the electrovators just comment on your performance over time. Like exposure wasn't- Okay, you guys heard that. Give more comments about my performance over time as an interviewer and while you're at it if you're doing that too. Also comment about Ron's performance as well doing the technical production and directing because he's also starting to really do well with the compositions and embedding assets and that type of stuff. Also make pre-predictions behind each individual what you were really thinking about, what stressed you out the most, what were the most difficult things you had to make and what you were struggling to think about but didn't do it before the interview. One reason for the video interview is that they capture the moment just in time and they capture it in ways that makes it easy to access memories that came just before and after the interview. It's like one of the best ways to do mind uploading is basically to just capture all the video of life logging is to capture video of as much of the features as possible because the more features you capture the easier it is for the brain to figure out exactly which precepts are needed to access what you were actually thinking at the point of time so that you can't go back and then improve in it. I know a lot of people who are video game players or sports players who were meals that people watch over them and as long as you get the right feedback or you are not overly distracted by haters' comments or non-truth-seeking comments or non-helpful comments then you will basically get the best feedback ever. Although some of the feedback is from people who are biasing from certain ways, people who like the most creative people don't heavily rely on other people in order to do it so most of the most creative people do it seems alone. Though I think- That's what I'm saying. Yeah, yeah. That's why I gotta spend a lot more time alone. I'm starting to realize that it helps a lot. I feel like what you're saying about having someone that can maybe be a little bit more down the line also with some additional potentially funding is there could be somebody that specifically focuses on just the development. I'm frequently reflecting on myself but I think that if someone, I think even Jeremy went ahead and even hired someone to just personally like amplify his productivity by like following him around and saying like, hey, you said that you were gonna do this thing. You're not doing this thing. So that type of stuff is also quite interesting. How about on an open-mindedness Alex, it seems as though that the most generalists find themselves to be as open-minded as possible to be able to take in this mosaic of world views that ends up actually developing out into what I would say is the most truth is when you can simultaneously abstractly reason eight billion people's perspectives you have the most true world view and it's really difficult for a human brain to be able to do that but can you literally see how someone from China sees a certain issue, how someone from the U.S., how someone from the Middle East. Yeah, I think people need to be capturing more of their input history and what input history allows them to reach the conclusion that they read. I think people are often secretive about this because they are insecure about being falsified or they're just insecure about it for a variety of reasons. It's just not what some humans originally do and it makes people creeped out. We're just kinda sad because it inhibits us from reaching, say, sound or epistemic states and then people don't know what exactly led you to think this way. Yep, yep. Especially when it's like privileged information when someone's sitting behind the A's. Yeah, yeah. So logging one's own input stream more effectively, I mean, my input stream specifically is very evident with literally the people we feature on the show, these type of things. It's still not enough, of course. It's still not enough, totally, yeah. Even the amount of other content that I consume, correct, books I read, videos I watch, all that type of stuff. But then the output streams also quite evident in terms of the things that I'm worried, the ways that the worldview is being augmented over time, how evident that is with the ways that I'm speaking about it. Okay, and then maybe any last sort of bits of advice as an interviewer that I could embody. Probably ask for feedback from the other person about what they were expecting, what they were, I mean, maybe not really. Before and after? Both before and after, preferably. But not in a way that would exhaust them or cause them to behave slightly adversely. This is the thing is that when people come in at first, it's all about making them feel super comfortable that they're gonna radiate from their heart as best as they can. They're gonna rock it. And then if I'm asking them, hey, what are your expectations? It's kind of like that can maybe hinder some things. Yeah, I can't also, I don't realize those questions either, even though they're important. It's not what my mind's focused on right now. There's still a lot of advice towards polite signaling, like what you didn't expect very much and... Yeah, and usually it helps when, even when I just show them what notes that I've made for the show and that they're able to co-create and say that they want this or don't want that, that type of stuff, yeah. That helps a lot. And then, yeah, this has been good. I think we covered a decent amount of things, aging, super connecting, interviewing skills. Yeah, we talked a good amount of things. Any other last thoughts on the way up? Yeah, I think there is a chance that this is becoming more self aware shows than most other shows. There's a chance, which if you've got the right people, which I think is going to be important if we ever are to create a hive mind, or a hive mind that coordinates better because right now there is a global coordination problem and the global general global coordination problem is why, basically why shit is going to happen unless we solve it, like whether it's climate change, which is one of the big coordination problems or certain other coordination problems. Yeah, the global giant coordination problem is needing to be over the hive mind. Alex, I think one of the ways that we can approach this aware style of show is that I've repeated this so many times, it's really driving home into my essence. This is not about Al, and this is not about Ron. This is not about simulation. This is about whatever is channeling through us that is inspiring other people to get more involved in building the future. Yeah, so once you get that, yeah, involving people, that's important. And this is something that is really important. This is also a very, very buzz where you're seeing building the future. Everyone talks about this or this value. Yeah, and so I think there's a delicate balance because I do think that one shouldn't overuse that, but I also think that there is also a benefit of spreading that meme over and over again because when people say, why are they so obsessed with building the future? Why do they always talk about that? And then all of a sudden it becomes, yeah, well some people comment in and they're like, oh, I've started pursuing synthetic biology, I've started pursuing neuro-tech or whatever AI that people tell us what fields they start pursuing around the world, but the general idea that if we can repeat memes through songs or through videos, if we can repeat memes, they can become programmed that people start caring more about talking to their families and their friends and their coworkers about building the future. And so there's a delicate balance. Don't overuse, don't have it be too buzzwordy, but at the same time, do push the memes that you care about spreading into the world effectively. Yeah, that's a big balance. So one of the things that I hope we do is that over time with, like you just said, that if the show continues to develop, it's in a very self-aware style that one of the, it doesn't end up diverting itself to something that, like an outside investor or things like that, which is again, why we need help to make sure that that doesn't happen, that we can do things like this conversation that we're having together, can we can add, like we've done before, two more people, three more people, we can have three, four, five, six people sitting around and as we develop the studio, we can really make beautiful round table conversations happening where one person's talking at a time. Yeah, yeah, I think it's important because there is so much information that's lost and when people do meetings in real life, it's all lost after the meeting ends and it's like, and then they have a record of, that's like a lot of people have to meet up because it's just talking and not doing, but if you can capture what the meetup was like, this will basically totally help, and so just totally help make sure that people actually are accountable to what they say, which doesn't happen enough. Yeah, and then it also becomes like we're fusing world views and which is really beautiful. At that point, it would be like you would get a message and maybe like three or four or five of our other friends would get messages and it would say, it would give people an option, hey what do you guys think about coming in August 10th from noon to 2 p.m.? And if people say yes to be able to come into those six people we requested to be on the program, we can basically start at noon in a round table, live streaming it with the multi-camera shoot and we can do a world view fusion. It's like, where has your world view been updated the last two, three months since we last talked? And that's what we talk about around the table. Alex, one last thing on the way I want to ask you about. I want to ask you a question about it and then I want to see what your answer is about it. Where do you get all of your nourishment? Where do you breathe air? Where do you eat food? Where do you drink water? Where do you get those things from? Why I can be this? Where do they come from? Everyone breathes the same air, although I try to breathe like, I go to clean air like this. They come from nature, right? These things come from earth that we live on, right? We're all living in the same house. We're all living on the same planet. Or like remnants of what was formed 4.6 billion years ago. Okay, correct. So we're all living here together. We all breathe the air of the planet. It nourishes us. The water nourishes us. The food nourishes us. You're using such buzzwords. There's the most buzzword you think you're ever saying, most unoriginal point of what they think you have to say. Well, everything that I've been saying in that last segment actually is directly being communicated from spiritual leaders around a planet like Indigenous wisdom. Because what Indigenous leaders are saying, Alex, is that we are extremely disconnected from the earth that sustains us and nourishes us and the interconnectedness of us with all of the other organisms and ecosystems on the planet. Does that resonate? Do you feel? Yes, I know what you're meaning. That's what even Edwardo Wilson puts it in the most scientific way possible, even though he's not super into all that other stuff. That essence of our disconnection from what sustains us as much as we want to just say, oh, that's like buzzword-y and stuff. But as much, really, that is probably the most pressing issue of our time. The global coordination problem is a direct reflection of our inability to understand where we all come from and what sustains us. Does that make sense? Okay, okay. Because that's one of the memes that I think needs to get pushed forward in our world to fix the global coordination problem is when you breathe the air, when you eat the food, when you drink the water, when you take the shower, when you exercise, when you connect to the sun, when you do things like that, it is so much more spiritually connecting to source to where we all come from to our interconnectedness than when we're just trapped in some of the newsfeed algorithms that just keep us there for financial, their own personal financial benefits, their own self-dealing benefits. So, okay. Okay. Yeah. You seem like you're more super hyper-scientifically edge of knowledge-driven and maybe less so focused on the indigenous wisdom side of things. Is that what you say? That's right, yeah. I think, Alex, I think it would also be helpful to capture a little bit of the essence of that indigenous wisdom as you go forth at the edge. I think that would help a lot. Yeah. That may be some feedback from me, from me to you. Yeah. At the least. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. All right. That was fun. Fourth conversation with you, Alex. Good stuff. All right, thanks everyone for tuning in. We greatly appreciate it. We'd love to hear your thoughts in the comments below on the episode. Let us know what you're thinking. Also, talk to more people, your friends, family coworkers, people online on social media, about the things that we discussed about aging, super connecting, about interviewing. Give us your thoughts as about me and Ron as we keep developing out this show. And hold on a second. Let me just close the show. Let me just close the show. And also check out the links in the bio below to support us, help us grow, help us prosper, help us do the things that we talked about in this episode like making knowledge graphs, like doing cool things, like making transcripts and highlight reels, all that cool stuff. And go and build the future everyone. Manifest your dreams into the world. Thank you for tuning in and we will see you soon. Peace.