 Hey folks, we've got Time to start it's good to see everybody and If you don't mind for a second tagline, I've got I'd like to welcome everybody I got about a three and a half minute introduction to put things in context Okay, so if you are an old timer to the science circle or a newcomer I'd like to welcome you here as I said, I've got about a short introduction to put things in context and Then we'll open up the floor to you or to Dr. Hendricks so What we're doing today is kind of an experiment There may be other names for the concept But at least in the US the fireside chat began with President Roosevelt back in 1933 During his speech on that day when he was sworn in as president He famously remarked that we have nothing to fear but fear itself Well, we have the virus to fear today, but at the same time a lot of it is in Our minds as far as what we do about it and how we fear and how we react with everybody else So instead of delivering a speech from the podium as he had to when he was inaugurated The president wanted to find a way to acknowledge the fears and concerns of the people during the Great Depression And so he turned to a less formal approach, which was the fireside chat now then we delivered it by radio the Fireside chat concept was supposed to simulate him sitting among The people in their living rooms talking with them rather than act them and so if we fast forward about 90 years Back in President Roosevelt's day the radio was the newest technology And it allowed him and then other leaders to speak directly to the people For the very first time in history. It was amazing, albeit one way So today we have technologies that enable us to speak and to Chat together right as we've been doing this morning and so not just hear someone speak but be able to respond as well and in the virtual world we can even Make a fireplace have us all sit around it Okay, so why are we here? Well once more the world faces a crisis together much like it did back in the days of the Great depression One year ago the world health Organization recognized that there was a novel coronavirus that was starting to spread around the world that was only one year ago And today we're fast approaching 100 million known cases of the virus Infection the virus itself is called SARS-CoV-2 And that number is likely much higher than that because that's just the known cases the reported cases In addition over two million people have died from the effects of COVID-19. That's the name of the disease And there's no indication that the spread of the virus is slowing down anytime soon So back in 1918 there was a novel H1 H1N1 flu virus that eventually infected 500 million people worldwide killing at least 50 million That number again may be higher because we didn't have the medical knowledge or health and social systems that we have today So today in in 2020 or 2021 many nations have taken drastic steps to try to contain the spread of the virus Because they don't want to overwhelm health care systems and revert basically back to where we were in 1920 depending on you know the immune systems and how people live in such today So these necessary actions have caused Economic social and emotional hardships for millions of people But we've kept the death toll to for reaching what it did back in the 1918-19 Yeah, it is. That's a huge amount of people We've kept the death toll down Now one bright piece of news is that wearing masks and social isolating or social distancing has drastically reduced the impact of the flu this season And so we've actually the flu season is not as bad as it's been in the past because people have basically Been doing what they should for all viruses At least airborne ones. Okay, so however While technologies have changed people have not really changed that much for the most part and so our need to work and to socialize have greatly complicated the situation and perpetuated pandemic as well as of course broadcast Uh, that's a good question shallow and I'm not sure but that's why dr. Hendricks is here The flu is fun While some countries have brought in under control The virus is virtually out of control in other countries and this is a lot of about Both the countries and their the way people look toward collective or individualism And the methods taken and lots of other factors. So over the past two weeks Dr. Hendricks presented what we know about the virus and vaccines and how people get sick and I presented the social aspects of the environments now You can see both of our presentations if you haven't already On the science circle site If you click on there, you have dr. Hendricks and then mine is at the other link And so today what we'd like to do is um, I don't know if dr. Hendricks has a few things but today we'd like to open the floor to you as in the nature of the fireside chat to understand what your fears and concerns and questions are And we'll either try to answer your questions here or try to find answers for you And yeah, uh, that's exactly uh Shiloh is it in some cases because of behavior and such the systems are over text in los angeles, for example in california um They actually had to do basically triage in other words. They were telling ER or not er people but emt people that Don't bring people who are not likely to survive to the hospital because there's really no room for That's just that's what that's what we're trying to avoid because then the health system fails them because people didn't Cooperate and sometimes there's no ready-made answers. We we don't promise to have answers for you It's because it's not as simple as that but we can at least face this all together So now what we're going to do maybe dr. Hendricks has a few things, but what we're going to do is open the floor to you is you can You can chat we're not going to be able to talk because we're talking through another Media But any related topic is welcome that the only thing I would ask is that we make this a civil conversation okay, no Try not to point fingers at governments or peoples or whatever because that's not terribly helpful What we would like to talk about what your fears and concerns and questions are So what's of your mind and now turn this over to dr. Hendricks if he has anything and then uh to the To any of you Yeah, and I'll respond to that one thing is that um her immunity may be closer to what it says with dr. Fauci there it all depends And her immunity can be reached two different ways either Through vaccines or through the hard way with everybody getting it Dr. Hendricks do you have anything otherwise? Open it to the audience Yeah, I actually sat down this morning and wrote out scribbled notes Have three pages that looked like I was on drugs But uh A few points I'd like to make one about the 1920 flu most of them um were felt to die of Pneumonia from their point of view back then there was I think it was pertussis suis was a Co factor bacterial Infection that was secondary to the influenza virus And it was present in most of the patients that were autopsied and died The united states lost or had about 500 000 people die By About two and a half weeks it is suspected that the united that the united states will have 500 000 dead from covid We had Just crossed 400 000 before the 20th of January and I think we're already up to for 400 000 3rd 413 000 or more We're having about 4 000 deaths a day now so It's accelerating There are some points I want to make One about variants the Danes are Doing sequencing of everything. I read a recent article The the Danes were looking um with their sequencing at The increase in cases related to this new variant B 0.1 0.1 0.7 It's I'll just call it the london variant. It's london and southeast england is where it seemed to begin and it had a little litany of mutations you know this m type RNA this positive sense RNA that is the genetic information for coronavirus has 30 000 basis on it And when it gets replicated out it has a frame um spell checking function Which is pretty remarkable, but it still makes a lot of mistakes. It's way longer than one that would predict without Some kind of a checking mechanism for a an infectious organism to have Reliable replication and not get lost But It can mutate pretty quickly and it's It's one of the tragedies that It has not been taken more seriously and controlled more aggressively from the beginning because The longer it goes the more chance it has every Petri dish on two legs that gets infected is a potential source of new mutations and Single strand cells You mean single strand RNA It's the length of the RNA that is the issue in terms of mutations of 15 000 bases would be about the limit of most mathematical models for A virus to be able to replicate itself without getting too screwed up But at any rate from the end of 2020 They noted about 2% of what they were sequencing in Denmark was this English variant and that's going up to 7% by the second week of january So that's You know increasing by about 70% a week Which is pretty significant The united states only has been sequencing about 0.3% of Cases so they're rated 43rd in the world in terms of sequencing what's out there so The united states Maybe that'll change now but We don't really know what we're dealing with It's like the thing in the movies where the guy says you have any idea who I am I'm saras kovu too At any rate This new variant Boris Johnson Acknowledged on friday this new variant may be more deadly and it's in fact felt to be 30% more infectious and 30 to 70% it might be as high More contagious the Mutations in the spike protein make it more have more affinity for the ace two receptors It's predicted that in the u at this uk b 0.1 0.1 0.7 strain will be dominant By mid february and the cdc is predicting with apparently Limited information that it will be prevalent in the united states by march Basically, we're facing a tsunami. There's been something of a drop In the original Virus how I would say that Oh Round june of last year a variant Called d614 g became the dominant variant worldwide for some reason it was much more effective and spread On took up all the available niches out competing the original genome Or infectious agent, but it's now being replaced Basically these variants are hiding In the overall numbers and the reproduction ratio is deceptively low Because you have this More infectious variant that's Underneath the surface getting ready to come up at it as a big wave We also have the variants the brazil Has some Let's see p1 p period one also known as b period one period one period two four eight Um, it's devastated the amazon the amazon is said to be To have a collapsed medical care system they are overwhelmed and uh It gets to where people that get seriously ill Have no place to go like phil was describing and in um california Now brazil has been working with this coronavac From the beijing based senovac company Which is and it's very traditional and inactivated vaccination Or inactivated infectious particles You know, there's a lot of ways like you can take tetanus, which is a toxin and uh modify it a bit so it's Still has some of the same energeticity and it won't be the neuro toxin that Uh, we normally have so tetanus vaccine is super effective. It's not a living agent It's an extract an exotoxin from um A clostridium Organism a soil organism um So anyway using inactivated uh virus or inactivated ethical Inactivated of infectious particles is very traditional It was thought to be much more effective and even as uh 78 percent or more earlier on But recently brazil um Has reported that it's only 50.4 effective at preventing severe and mild covet 19 in these late stage trials and that's of interest to turkey and indonesia who are using this this vaccine johnson and johnson, uh, I see shila mentions that they are coming out with another a fairly traditional Sort of like the astrazeneca and the um sputnik 5 Both of those use uh adenovirus Vectors and so does the johnson johnson johnson johnson has One shot Supposedly I have no numbers on how it's how effective it is the adenovirus Vaccines are usually a safe Method for getting The virus in it gets taken into the cell and then releases dna into the nucleus Through a complex of proteins around what are called nuclear pores nuclear porin complex And the dna uses the cells equipment to to to make messenger RNA that then produces spike proteins A quick question is silly asked once someone gets The vaccine or gets covid uh, how long are they immune? I know we don't have a lot of data That's that's one of three big questions. Uh, it uh, they tend to protect first off These tend to not protect you from getting The virus but uh, it seems but protects you from getting disease These are quite effective and and it appears especially these messenger RNA viruses vaccines Like moderna and visor biotech But um, and I talked a little bit about the this fascinating new development of m RNA vaccines. That's really very cool and It's in its infancy, but uh Uh It appears likely that people will still be able to spread the disease They'll still be able to have the virus on board They may not get sick from it having an infection means more than just having the presence of The um of an infectious agent it means you have an inflammatory response to it and you get that you have the disease Well, so people can be carriers without being sick so The vaccine appears to keep people from getting sick and as far as anyone knows they're thinking Months maybe many months um, no one knows for sure how long the vaccines will work and it's in part because of what How effectively it makes um You know from the plasma cell population Or the b-cell population plasma cells that become memory cells and the other ones that become antibody producing cells There's memory cells. How long would they last? If we're lucky a lifetime, but um No one's that optimistic. I don't think A quick question coming back to the vaccine is that We know that the distribution isn't what would like it to be and sometimes people have only been getting one dose Do they have to get Two doses within a certain period of time for it to be effective or how does that work? um It appears when you look at the graphs of antibody response You usually get a little response and then you get the second dose and you get a big kick Uh, so the ones that are recommending like I think sputnik is one month apart sputnik 5 the AstraZeneca, I think is um Supposed to be four weeks apart The modern is four weeks apart and cosets messenger RNA and the Pfizer is three weeks apart um but um If you don't get the second dose your As no one's guaranteeing that you're going to have an optimal response. You might have a feeble response You might have a strong response, but uh, it's not as likely. I I would guess and um One other thing I wanted to well two things. I have one is the uh Nano particles that's with polyethylene glycol. Uh, that's Really very cool Um It's a nano particle That uh, you know if if you um I I didn't talk last week about treatments when people really get sick. What they can do is uh, um They they have you know the supportive care uh, that anyone would get based on organ systems and how they're functioning and what is failing particularly respiratory system and respiratory support uh, and in some cases, uh They get disseminated intravascular coagulation blood clotting uh disorders and such, uh, but um giving monoclonal antibodies is uh, a big thing in this, uh, that has potential And it's probably going to have a niche in it and also remdesivir Uh, remdesivir is approved by the FDA for people over 12 years of age and has an emergency use authorization for people under 12 it's um Given IV it's a nucleotide pro drug of an adenosine analog and it binds to the RNA dependent RNA polymerase which when the um COVID mRNA or it's I guess I shouldn't call it an mRNA the COVID RNA gets into the cytosol and starts to make protein it makes complexes that kind of have protease activity that cut themselves up into its uh 16 uh pieces and um Uh, one of the functions of that protein complex is to act as an RNA It's RNA dependent of course RNA polymerase so it can make a negative MR a negative RNA strand And um then start making A positive strand copies for new viruses um this, um Remdesivir gives a false signal to it to cease transcription So, um, it tricks it and it does tend to decrease viral load and uh um the severity of the disease and most of the uh um Let's see. There's a question here If you you do not need to vaccine if your own immune system took care of your immunity against a virus um Well, you can always take your chances and uh, you're Uh, if you're wrong it's sort of like John Kennedy once uh was said They want to cut military spending. What if they're wrong? Well, let's say if you're they're wrong and they cut it you get attacked. You've really made a big mistake uh That was back in the 60s. That was a good general strategy uh This thing kills people and people Like rebecca jones who's a whistleblower in florida who used to work with the um human uh, I guess the department of human services there and uh florida Keeping she was a data analysis keeping track of covet cases and they Tried to force her to give false information. So she got fired And she kept on doing it. So she's getting harassed by the state of florida and legally Uh, because she's doing it independently Um tracking covet in the state and they don't want people to really know it would seem Uh, she got covet. She was arrested And they tested her and she had covet and she wrote that she's 31 and she's super healthy and a mother and all this and uh It's hit her like a freight train And nobody wants this and so Some young people die of this And they don't necessarily have autoimmune disorders or known problems Um What would somebody do if uh, they did have an autoimmune disorder just have to do what they normally do in other words um Some people with really bad problems have to socially isolate the whole time Isn't that right? Yes, and in fact if you have the vaccine and even assuming it's effective because you may still carry the virus these same precautions apply Because otherwise you may act in spreading the virus um I think the autoimmune disorder would depend on what you're talking about if it's um Things like hiv I think the um ability of the um Uh vaccine to induce effective antibody response may be pretty damaged because t helper cells cd4 t helper cells are attenuated so If hiv is well controlled they may still be able to um have some immune response for people like that Now Two companies make monoclonal antibodies and Let me just tell you about monoclonal antibodies. You know myeloma is a like a cancer of B cells when I was Practicing earlier and then training I took care of patients that had plasmacytomas which were a form of myeloma that malignant myeloma that had solid tumors particularly in skeleton and I I Saw some of the cases that I Still can see in front of my eyes in a sense, uh There's some cases you never forget That are extremely sad and painful to watch and you can't do anything and um Then sometimes you see people over treat and do harm to people that have Terrible situations and any rate I had Deep memories about dealing with plasmacytomas, but a rate You get mice with uh myeloma cells which are immortal They're they're like cancer cells say divide without stopping sort of like healer cells And you can get cells most any somatic cells to fuse. Uh, there's two ways when I was first studying and and Given courses in immunology. They talked about using Viruses that cause sensitial changes Cause fusing of plasma membranes There's a scendite virus which is commonly used To cause two different cell types to fuse But you can also do it with polyethylene glycol, which by the way is the Lipid that's used in the nanoparticle for the mrna virus vaccines And so you get these myeloma cells to fuse with b cells and you get the b cells from Are you able to hear me? Okay Yeah, you're coming in fine at least for me. Okay These These cells often from the spleen That are producing antibodies and you choose myeloma cells that are not choosing it that are not producing antibodies and You can cause them to fuse and you can use techniques derived from Bacteriology by which you do serial dilutions and isolate clones Isolate single cells for cloning in cell culture. These are not bacterial cultures these are mammalian cell cultures and These will produce antibodies now they've gotten fancier if you Take murine or mouse antibodies And inject them in humans. You're going to get a response. So there have been Well, I just say they've introduced DNA Into the cells such that the antibodies produced these are all the same antibody with have murine Variable areas where they contact the antigen and the stable areas which Are basically humans. So they're mostly human molecules and So They can mass produce these it's really quite remarkable that the industry can do this and Eli Lilly produces a single monoclonal antibody Injection they went into a nursing home and did like 962 people and they had a placebo group and They had four people die, but those were all the placebo group and they prevented and serious disease Actually prevented the other nursing home people from getting serious disease With the monoclonal antibodies infused at the outset The Question is You're talking about different Ways to help people going back to vaccines Okay, how do they produce so many? How do they produce so many? In other words, they need to ramp up production. How do they even produce as many as they have and is it more question of production or distribution in other words I could give one country 100 million doses, but they may not be able to distribute them in Well enough or keep them in the conditions. They need that kind of stuff Well Let me answer that one second. I'll just finish. Regeneron has a two monoclonal antibody cocktail and Eli Lilly has a single monoclonal antibody that can be used early in an infection with remdesivir and You can't use like this hydroxychloroquine is frankly to me a fraud But if you use that with the remdesivir you can have In impede the effects So they can't be used together but At any rate Aside from supportive care along with dexamethasone Like top politicians who have gotten sick they get in the hospital That's what they've been treated with and that's how they've survived I don't think I think we would have had a dead president Several months ago had these modalities not been available And one other aspect of this before I move on is that if you get the monoclonal antibodies That's going to interfere probably with the effectiveness or the take of being vaccinated because instead of the Product of the vaccine When it's processed by the cells that take it up They produce this spike proteins They they will be blocked by the monoclonal antibodies that are in there passively And you want people to build up their own immunity If they can Now in terms of the vaccines This messenger RNA It really is pretty remarkable that they've been able to produce as much. I think the main problem now is Distribution I think that's one advantage that sputnik 5 and AstraZeneca and perhaps Johnson and Johnson using an adenovirus DNA Genome adenovirus vector That doesn't require extreme Temperature restrictions and handling it's more typical of what's been done for a long time but I think Humans are going to have to get it together and become more organized and The other thing is some of this is in its infancy. I was thinking this morning about um Well, that's a good question the mRNA it's It survives the same as mRNA from the nucleus that's been transcribed from the person's own genome so I think it'd be a matter of uh It's just going down common pathways that work Um I don't know how to answer that but on that everything gets degraded at some point, but that's uh That's maybe in the dynamics Downstream of where it does its action uh I woke up. I don't want to dominate this completely but I woke up with this idea about You know the military Is uh and war and uh strife and conflict have often been stimulus for progress uh Not everything the military does is uh um Leads to you know deadlier weapons. Uh, you think of things like canned food Um microwave ovens duct tape superglue internet gps positioning digital cameras those are all sort of beta tested and uh Uh subsidized in their early development by military um Our military needs Similarly you think of radar um Radar seems in a simple idea if someone were blind and they uh Maybe had great hearing and they bounced a ball off a wall They could hear where it bounced and they could develop a spatial sense of How close that wall is and what its shape is and um Radar is sort of like that, but you think of radar and all the spin-offs from radar Including recently there's this thing called a finder device for disaster and emergency response It uses radar to detect people Whose hearts are beating underneath rubble In places where there have been earthquakes and That's being improved. It's already been demonstrated and there's fancier systems like a radar system called ginger guidance and intro I'm sorry guidance and into the ground exploration radar that studies the surface of planets Uh And that all came about just trying to figure when planes are going to come and drop bombs on us uh from world war two You know radars Got ubiquitous Anybody ever had a ticket By a cop standing with a little device in his hand says I got you You know, well anyway who Here ever heard of cold chain before six months ago Has anybody cold chain And now it's part of the vernacular in english cold chain. It's it's it's a requirement for uh these messenger RNA based um nanoparticle vaccines and it's cryogenics technology and that's putting demand on cryogenics to develop more and uh That's cryogenics and nanotechnology are going to Cryogenics and nanotechnology are going going to be Exploding I think now because of What's required to make messenger RNA viruses or a messenger RNA? um vaccines work Because they seem to work so well if you can get the system up and running We've really done well Just a year to put this together after sequencing it about a year ago but that Shows how far along we are And uh technologically and scientifically, you know in 1880 uh de war He was experimenting and he he he discovered that mercury would vaporize and Condense on the surface of the glass surface of these containers He had tried all these different things to try to keep stuff cold Because he was trying to do chemistry in very cold circumstances and it Mostly failed but the de war flask was quite successful and then eventually silvered Uh glass on the inside of these containers was The best thing for keeping things cold. That was only 1880 and um He was experimenting with with um liquefied uh air and he found the mirrored glass Kept it from evaporating as fast um Now they have like cryogenics fluid dynamics cryo fd which has um Can double the cooling power of cryo coolers and decrease boil off of helium stored in south at the south pole Liquid helium can be available year round Superconducting magnets at cern depend on cryogenics. Um, yeah, of course we got uh Walt disney and ted williams going to bring them back but um at any rate I think There's going to be some exciting developments in um Science and technology as the world gears up for these new technologies and new abilities and It expands these are the very first ever Approved vaccines approved for Authorized for emergency use And it's only the beginning and those work in the 90 percent level the sputnik Reportedly works at about 92 percent, but I can't find numbers all I can find are press releases from the russian government about sputnik 5 a day asked if um They uh, let's see about should we wait for the first dose if we're not sure if we can get the second What would you answer to that? I think most places are giving you a second of an appointment outright and I think I would be optimistic if they offer it and they give you a second appointment to come back for your booster dose or your second dose Go for it There's no choice You get what you get Uh, if you're in the rural area, you're probably going to get moderna If in the united states if you're in a city or Out of a larger hospital you can probably get the Pfizer But uh You do get some protection maybe 50 percent. Uh, it's um And and yeah, I think this uh with the full dosage two weeks after you've had it Uh, you're up to 95 percent although these variants out of brazil South africa and england Help Give escape vaccine escape uh by Making the antibodies less effective in neutralizing the virus so um We're watching that very closely And um We may be in for a hell of a time still I have a couple of social questions really quick first of all There are nations and people can answer this if they'd like but there are nations that are giving compensation to people who get the vaccine But there are also nations who there's a good article this morning and giving and then some are giving compensation to people who get sick so I under you know, I understand kind of the rationale between that but My understanding is if they give it to people who get sick there may be an incentive to get Sick Rather than get the vaccine. Have you heard of that or? They're they're giving people incentive to get sick Well, okay, if you get they're not giving it to get sick, but if you get covid then you get money to make up for loss pay and stuff like that I could see that As a kind of like well gee I may as well get sick that way I don't have to work and they still get more money that it's kind of like the $600 per week checks and they actually sound that that was more than People earned for unemployment Yeah, very risky Yeah, I don't know. I you know, I the the whole thing about herd immunity Is in the united states, which is one of the less populist countries it's uh, let's say for ease of computation 300 million Herd immunity without intervention Or even with intervention. I think would without vaccine Would result in about three million deaths at least And the cost of society is staggering and It's it's uh, it's not an enviable way to go um I heard another question about right now the vaccines are For 16 and older. What about people that are under 16 in other words about schools and such like that Uh, I know Moderna. I'm sure fizer two are working on Uh studies So they can get authorization for younger Uh, it's tricky to give things to um younger children that um You know, they have they have a different metabolism and they're undergoing quick development and a lot of DNA expression. That's not a problem in the adult who's already mature and developed so, uh If you bugger that up You can cause terrible problems Uh, just think of thalidomide Which was given for morning sickness to pregnant women That it doesn't take very much to uh, um, disrupt embryogenesis and developmental Changes when they're happening at an exponential rate Just can you confirm this one thing is that there's always something in the news But uh there and I and I mentioned not to try to politicize this thing, but there were people saying that President biden didn't wear a mask at the Lincoln memorial And so they were saying well, why didn't he do that? But my you know, Lincoln doesn't have coated in other words My understanding is masks Are not something you have to wear everywhere But they're too you wear them when there's a chance that the virus is around another one that there's people there Is that correct? well, yeah, I That was outdoors For one thing and I don't think anyone was very close to him and I I think that some of this stuff gets pulled out to Be vindictive or you know critical On a kind of a petty level Uh If somebody doesn't have their mask on I wouldn't because I see that in a picture Unless they're at a big gathering and there's a people's Wall-to-wall with no masks And it's current that's Pretty worrisome, uh, but uh, someone's Got their picture taken in the news and they don't have a mask on at that moment Uh, I would want to know the situation and the exact conditions before I made criticism of that So I don't know you're always going to have people that are pit bulls And on the attack I have one other thing that occurred to me I wanted to tell you about just real quickly that I learned I wasn't aware of but B cells, you know, uh, B cells are kind of What we want to stimulate with our vaccine to Undergo proliferation and uh, and when when a specific B cell type gets stimulated because of the mh to Histocompatibility molecule that's on it and it gets Uh interacts with a compatible uh T helper cell It starts to proliferate to make a clone of cells And some of those become memory cells and some become Plasma cells that produce antibodies um A mature B cell has some ability to Employ slight mutations To alter the antibody it produces So that it can respond Sometimes those will be responsive to changes in an antigen if they're not too extreme It's uh, I thought that was quite remarkable and it's about the only Place I know where mature cells change their genetic Basis and their expression In the human body So mature B cells that are producing antibodies can Adjust a little bit Randomly and some of those random changes will be able to target slight random change in an antigen So you got that going for you And I thought that was very cool Speaking of distribution one other thing is I read uh this morning also was That in some of the poorer nations where production well not production but distribution May come later in other words what what happened was My understanding with some of the richer nations kind of bought up some of the first production and places in africa and other places that may not have the Same infrastructure or money may not get the vaccine until around 2023. Have you read that? Well, yeah, I think that the mRNA vaccines Cool as they are are going to be Probably mostly available to The well-to-do and for countries that are More strapped They're going to be dependent on a good workhorse vaccine like astrazeneca or A sputnik or maybe the johnson and johnson which is stable and easy All those are the adenovirus vector containing dna and very traditional kind of viral vaccine and They're cheaper to make and They're stable and easy to distribute and don't require cold chain Anything like and they I think they need to be cool Like refrigerator cool, but that's easy compared to negative 70 degrees centigrade What can you say about the chinese virus? I understand that Perhaps brazil and and other places have been using it the well the the vaccine from the um Let's see the company I wrote cinnabac It's a corona vac vaccine it's an inactivated SARS-CoV-2 but Recently it appears it's only effective I mean, it's pretty safe But only effective at about 50 point Let's see. I wrote it at 50.4 percent 50 50 point 0.4 percent just barely over half the patients are benefited In terms of protection from getting sick so That's quite a disappointment and brazil is Really hurting right now now the again sputnik again You know like in phase two Phase one and two you tend to use healthy patients and then you start to go to A population of test patients that represent the demographic And they have some sick people I I don't know how much the russian virus Vaccine was tested that way. I can't tell from anything I read I hope it's 92 effective and it probably is safe Again, because of it's a traditional platform vaccine platform, but I think that those cheaper solid Technology established technology and easier to distribute and stable platforms are going to be the Thing that saves lots of Countries that don't have the infrastructure and money to go for Moderna and Pfizer thus far As I understand No, maybe it's Astra Zeneca I think it's Astra Zeneca is No, maybe it is Moderna. Moderna said they're not going to take profits until this pandemic is solid and Under control So they are kind of producing it at cost, which is good of them, but At any rate Okay, that's a good By the way, we try to For you that have been to our presentations and there's a big audience today Is that we try to wrap everything up within about an hour But we don't want to for the whole purpose of the fireside chat Is to address things that are of concern to you So if we have missed one of your questions, there you go How long until the research is stolen? Well, you know secrets or the bleeding of things But is there any questions anything we've missed anything that chat chat's been very very busy. So we may have missed something. Please Repeat or send it again. We want to make sure we get to everybody if possible I have one quick comment. Are you hearing me in real time? Or is there a delay? That's hard to tell Yeah, I know And how long until research is stolen, you know, if somebody had snuck into Isaac Newton's study and Surreptitiously made a copy of his Principia and Then went out and tried to Do anything with it Good luck to him And it's sort of the same with this the Technology for producing these things is not trivial and Not just that but just to Get it out there and have quality control and distribution and an acceptance of it I don't think theft of the You know proprietary Interests are are of course important to the industries that the bean counters and these industries, but I don't think theft of these ideas is Going to help anybody in the short run these are too Damned involved to create produce Distribute and administer It's like, you know It's like if you happen to eavesdrop on Beethoven playing the piano So you're going to steal his song Good luck with that Does that make sense? That's me Okay, we might want to wrap everything up But here again, we don't want to miss anything But thank you very much. Wow, this is a huge audience. Thank you very much. This is an important concern for everybody and The best thing we can do is to get together and agree on how best to make this work. So the pandemic doesn't last Any longer than it has to so take care everybody If you can still hear me Is it over? No, go ahead um I've noticed and um People are wearing two masks on television They're wearing probably an n 95 mask underneath a more decorative mask and a lot of these Thin cloth masks are Probably better than nothing but If you know Like i'll say if I get vaccinated and our band starts playing then in a 16 piece jazz band um, we haven't been playing for a year now because Of this pandemic we start getting back together Especially since these people are blowing again all of these horn players. I'm gonna wear an n 95 mask underneath a regular surgical mask Also, I've seen a lot of popular fashion masks in other words people that look like models wearing masks You know wear this and you'll see but my understanding is the Uh synthetic ones polyester and stuff like that is not as effective as just a basic type fitting Several stage cotton mask, right and the n 95 masks are pretty utilitarian So, um They put decorative masks on top of them and max mentioned playing wind instruments or horns With the mask on it's a they do have filters. They can put over the bell to If These guys will use them. That's not all guys. It's some women to win the band, but At any rate A lot of these people in this area where I am In north carolina are deniers and just I don't know ridiculous and so they probably Even now would Uh Denigrate, you know anyone taking too many precautions and They have cut back. I guess at the leadership of the person who sort of the band leader but A lot of them didn't like it I think it's a microcosm There have been so many bad mixed messages bad messaging It's been very dishonest. This is a deadly thing it kills people and if it doesn't kill you It'll go through you and kill somebody else So avoiding it is worthwhile No, uh surgeons don't refuse to wear masks They don't they would not they would get reported Nobody's nobody's going to put up with that But so essentially our event is done today, but if you'd like to hang around and other questions or comments that come up and stuff like that. I'm sure that Dr. Hendricks or I will try to help One thing I didn't mention is that the lingering about at least half the population that gets covid It still has affects six months later It's not just the flu and you get over it two weeks. You feel pretty decent again And uh, I heard dr. Falsi who looks extremely happy these days talking that they're going to be doing Research that uh multi disciplinary research to try to figure out why there's this brain fog and persistent respiratory trouble extreme fatigue This um this Infection has more pervasive spinoff effects On the individual and on society then just You know somebody getting a cold and getting over it and uh If you avoid it and You're alive After it's under control you can go on with your life. If you're not life will go on without you That's all I know to say. I don't think that um caution and uh prudent uh changes in social behavior and work uh practices are likely to cause death like covid is Or cost to society Shadow asks about covid scarring the lungs or leaving adhesions. I I know like you said that there are a lot of long-lasting effects Yeah, it uh, it just sort destroys um Alveolar cells the uh ace inhibitor cells in that type two uh epithelial cells in the alveoli uh are abundant and They get killed and you get inflammation that will scar up and damage alveoli and impair oxygen exchange the ability to Get carbon dioxide that's built up from your metabolism out and oxygen in You know in with the good ear and out with the bad air um so Scarring of the lungs definitely occurs and some it's uh extreme somebody does vaping or smoking or has other pulmonary problems There may be more likely to get it some people that didn't have any of those will also end up with pulmonary compromise Another social aspect real quick that they keep by saying, you know, there's So many deaths, etc. But before somebody dies, they're in the hospital in the united states. My understanding is the average hospital costs for a stay with covid is about $75,000 and that's partly paid for by Insurance is that your understanding? I mean in other words, it's not just the health issue. It's economics. It can be a Being out of work being out of family It's you don't want to get this stuff if you can help it, right? And in terms of the medical costs most insurances are capped And won't cover after a point And the hospitals aren't going to get full reimbursement Even if the hospitals are giving the vaccine and the vaccine is provided free Subsidized by the government They have personnel and equipment Right down to syringes and needles and alcohol swabs and band-aids end time That is a cost to them. So there's a lot of expenses involved in any of this That may be overlooked Okay, I'm kind of taking the Pause there to mean we're done Just checking Thank you to everyone who Listened all my rambling and I appreciate your interest and I hope I wasn't too confusing Now you're wonderful. Thank you very much for today and for last week And we hopefully we're not going to have to do this again in a year from now Yeah Wouldn't that be great Thank you synergy MK czar. Thank you maybe In a year from now, we'll have a world in which there's a sense of greater cooperation and transparency and sense that all of humanity Needs to look out for each other And stand together not Be so cutthroat and backstabbing and Taking low shots I had a question that somebody raised is Not to be morbid, but If somebody dies of cove it what happens as far as mortuary services and stuff. I mean the people who handle the body are More at risk. Are they not? Yes, and new york in the first wave There were pictures that were widely distributed of people in hazmat suits doing mass burials on statin island and Generally funerals are not happening and are Much reduced if they do happen. They're probably not a good idea and They bring people together in small groups for one thing and um It's um Oh, where was it a san antonio? Or el paso Maybe it was el paso. I heard where they were talking about they have bodies Adding up faster than they can deal with them um, I really You know embalming involves putting a trocar into a major vessel and draining lipolat out And injecting a lot of chemicals Uh, it's good for feiros uh to me, um probably just uh Outright, um the ceiling and burial or cremation is better in terms of um Avoiding contamination I'm so sorry kanja. I'm very sorry A service out the outside is probably a safer setting Now these are sad dark times We may talk about You know 400 000 dead in the u.s 2 million, but every one of those is a person every one of those is a family member and a co-worker and A human being a human being Yes In my family, we always seem to have a cremation um And actually I find that somewhat um reassuring Every mistake every scar every uh misstep It's all vaporized And a cremation that's the way I see it Ashes to ashes Yes You know, it's a great deal of loss in this uh society and this is a time in 1920 There was still that was remember calvin coolidge His son got a blister That got infected with uh staff aureus That um got into his system and he got septicemia and died The president of the united states his son died while he was in office from a blister In 2020 We wouldn't have expected To be death to be looking over our shoulder that way Were it not for covet We'd gotten gotten complacent And that was something out there that we could keep at bay Another question about ventilation real quick is um My understanding is in some buildings, of course the erics is exchanged quite a bit good ventilation systems But in other places where people congregate perhaps i'm not saying all restaurants, but that's one of the last places I would go is the air may not be as Well exchanged anything you know about that well, it brings to mind there was um research which involved um people with expertise in engineering aerodynamics in korea Where they have south korea have done has done a very good job in monitoring and trying to keep this under control and uh, they had one teenager who was 20 feet away or more from an infected individual uh, but there was a fan blowing so Particles that still had viable viral You know the aerosol that still had viable virus made it to him And he inhaled it as sufficiently that he got uh covid and um, so I think you know There's nothing like fresh air, but if you When I take a walk every evening if somebody walks ahead of me I go across the street and walk on the edge of the street I don't walk behind them uh because You can't see it, but they're leaving the trail Just like they're leaving a trail of dna that a bloodhound could track from the scent They're also leaving a trail of aerosol in the air around them now also think of a time when a man in a Red light in the car ahead of me rolled down his window and blew cigar smoke out the window And um, then the light changed and I drove forward and just when I got by the time I got across the road Past the red light I could smell that cigar smoke I thought You know if he had tuberculosis I would be breathing in tubercle particles perhaps If he had coughed out the window so uh Yeah The thing about outside during the day is ultraviolet light will tend to Uh kill Anything that's got nucleic acids in it I tend to think of the leaving a trail thing when I Am in a grocery store. I try not to be in a grocery store long because there are aisles and you know people have been walking down the And in our area some people don't even wear masks. So I'm Rather Quick to get in and out if I have to get go in and all Which um, by the way, I need to go because I've got a curbside pickup from a grocery store So I'm gonna leave but uh Thank you all for coming and uh to dr. Hendricks and to shantel for hosting. It's um This is amazing. This fireside chat thing has worked out. Well, and I hope we have Not just talked at you but answered your uh The things that concern you Yes, this was uh, kind of a charming, um setting Uh, thank you shantel Very nicely put together Thank you shalo So if there's no further questions, I guess I will Hang it up