 do what we do. And we're going to include talking about Luis Alfaro's work and with him about his work. And then, of course, he's gonna take questions from you. But first of all, for those of you who have never been to Watch Me Work, Retour, I'm Susan Laurie Parks. We start Watch Me Work, we're saying thank you to the Public Theater and thank you to HowlRound. I've been doing this show for 11 years, mostly in the lobby of the Public Theater. And they've been supporting me the whole time. And then a couple of few years ago, HowlRound came on to help us livestream we were doing it live out of the lobby of the Public Theater. And now HowlRound and the Public Theater have joined forces to create this beautiful opportunity that we have. We were doing it every day. And now we're doing it four days a week because we love you. And we wanna provide support, encouragement, and sometimes some ass kicking to help you to help you just be every day. So what we're gonna do is we work for 20 minutes and then we talk to Luis Alfaro about his work. But first, you must hear, if you don't know or if you like are having a brain fart moment and you don't know a lot about Luis Alfaro, I'm gonna tell you, Luis Alfaro is a Chicano writer known for his work in poetry, in theater. He writes also short stories. He's a performer and he's a journalist, right? He spent six years as the playwright in residence at the Oregon Shakespeare Festival from 2013 to 2019. He was a member of the playwright's ensemble at Chicago's Victory Gardens Theater from 2013 through 2020. I guess it just wrapped up Luis, right? He's the recipient of a MacArthur Genius Award and MacArthur Fellowship Award, which means he's superiorly awesome and intelligent and genius-like, genius-ish. And also, last year was a big year for him. Last year he was awarded the Penn America Laura Pell's International Foundation Theater Award. And he was awarded the United States Artist Fellowship and he was awarded the Ford Foundation's Art for Change Fellowship. So he is very much happening. His plays and performances include Electricidad, Oedipus L. Ray, Mojada, Delano, and Body of Faith, just to mention a few. He has spent, Luis has spent over two decades in the Los Angeles poetry community, touring North and Latin America as a performance artist. Also, he's a righteous, righteous brother and we're thrilled, thrilled, thrilled to have him and we always have good conversations. I'm looking forward to working with you, Luis and all of our Watch Me Work community. We're gonna work for 20 minutes together. Then we're gonna talk to Luis about what he's working on and some of his specific concerns and then I'll get out of the way and Luis will take questions about your work and your creative process from all y'all, okay? So if you wanna get in touch, if you have a question, Arjun's gonna tell us how to get in touch. Thanks, SLP. Thanks Luis, so nice to see you both. So if you have a question and you're inside of the Zoom, all you need to do is click on the raise your hand button. Likely in a participant tab at the bottom of your screen on a laptop at the top if you're on an iPad or a tablet. And if you're watching on HowlRound.tv you can tweet at us at Watch Me Work SLP with the hashtag HowlRound, H-O-W-L-R-O-U-N-D and you can also tweet at Public Theater NY or write to us in our Instagram. Those are all the ways. All the ways lead to the C. All the ways lead to the C, here we go. We got 20 minutes, ready, Audrey? Ready and, there you go. All right, here we are. Here we are, we got some questions. Hope you guys got some work done or enjoyed the sunshine or wherever you're at. We got some questions for Luis and then we're gonna have him take your questions about your work and your creative process. We always start Luis with, look, you're so beautifully lit. Is that like a special effect on your face or something? No, I have to admit that, can you hear me? You hear me, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I have to admit that I read that New York Times article from Tom Ford about how to light yourself on Zoom. So I copied it exact. I did everything he told me to do. So my computer is actually on a box, an egg box. I made my ghetto version of it, but it is really cool. Wow, it looks, yeah, it's gorgeous. It's like this, and are you in a dark room or something? I mean, what is this? I am in my bedroom in Koreatown and it's kind of lit, but he's writing about like, if you get one light to kind of be your primary light, you had a whole list of, look it up, it's so good. That's amazing. I mean, I know I feel so like under prepared, sitting in the sun. I thought that could be my light, but well. I'm very jealous, I'm very jealous. Look at you, look at you. So tell us, what are you working on right now, Matt? Well, I'm working on a couple of things. I mean, maybe my biggest thing right now is I'm doing a play for a company called Bob Baker Marionette Studio, the longest running puppet company in the United States. And I thought I'd tell you the very quick little story because it's typical of how I work. So they invited me to come see their show. They do an hour show. It was about 150 kindergarten to second grade kids. And so, you know, it's like they sit on the floor. It is amazing. Bob Baker himself, who passed away was a really kind of extraordinary guy. And the whole show is a soundtrack, kind of like from the 70s. So like one of, there's a cat who performs and it's Liza Minnelli singing. So you can just imagine. And then there's a clown that comes out and he's on a little stage. The stage is on a turntable, it turns. And he's at his dressing table and he's singing Send in the Clowns. I mean, it is so corny, right? And so beautiful. So kids are getting one thing, adults are getting another. So after the show, they said, can you come backstage? We're gonna show you where we work and the whole thing. And I went and then they said, we have a little documentary we wanna show you. And the documentary was a film, those old film projectors from school. Remember those with the reel? And so they put on the film and it was a documentary about two kids from LA, urban LA, a little girl and a little boy who had extreme stutters. And these kids would go every week to the Bob Baker, Marianette studio and talk to the puppets. And that is how they were cured of their stuttering. So as we're watching the documentary, the little boy starts talking and then under, you know, they have a little title for the boy and it says, Luis Alfaro. And I was like, oh my God. And he's to, is that you? I only recognize myself because my mother used to make my clothes and she used to make me these cool Nehru color shirts. I was super into the Beatles and I was, it was me and I was the little kid who had the extreme stutter. And so they said, you have to do this play. And I was like, absolutely. So I was thinking about that because I had just gone to a TCG conference where Andre De Shields had spoken and he said, one of the things I wished I knew earlier was not every job that comes your way is your job is meant for you, you know? But this felt like this was really, really meant for me. Right? It sounds fantastic. It sounds fantastic. Wow. So how, so did you write a, you're writing a play about your girls? A little girl puppet, a little Latina puppet that stutters. And it's really getting in the way of her performance. Wow. So yeah. So, you know, I think sometimes these jobs come and it's so interesting because I am one of those people who's been really sheltering in place. Religiously, I live in Koreatown which is the densest neighborhood in Los Angeles. So, you know, I really have to take care of myself and that piece is really about isolation, right? It's about not being able to speak, not being able to communicate. And then I'm writing a piece about a seminary. So I think it's very interesting that these pieces come to us when they come to us, right? And they come to us because of where we're at in our lives. So, yeah, it's been very, it's been very moving to write. It feels like they're coming along very easily, partly because I'm feeling the moment, right? And I'm feeling my way through the moment. Uh-huh, uh-huh. What about that advice? Like, not all work, these yours that comes to you. Could you repeat that again? That's really, really- That not every job, not every job that came my way was meant for me. And I really think sometimes, you know, somebody will approach you about something, you'll think, oh my God, I really want this commission. But the truth is, it's not really yours, right? So a lot of times I've been in really beautiful situations where I'll say, yeah, it's just not the thing that's right for me, but I know who it's right for, right? And I wanna, you know, I wanna connect you. So I think a lot of times we are the connective tissue through our industry, right? And that we create a bigger, bigger community because every job is saying, you know, you can tell when it's your job. You know, I can tell when I'm super excited and super passionate and that first draft just shoots out of you, right? And then sometimes you're like, hmm, I'm for hire right now. And I'm like struggling through this, right? I hear you, I hear you. Wow, that's really, no, that's really, really important for folks to hear and even for me to hear. It's really helpful. So you're an activist also, also. And how does your activism inform your work? If it does, how so? Oh yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, activism is about having a point of view, right? It's about obsession in some ways for me. It's about righting a wrong. It's about engaging in something that I know I should be engaged with. So for me, I find that, you know, I use this artist citizen term a lot and I really believe it. I'm an artist, but I'm really also a citizen. I'm very involved in my community. I'm very involved in my communities, right? And I think that this moment is a really good example of it, you know, I've been very involved in, you know, conferences and these Zoom calls and all that, but also, you know, just calling theaters out and having conversations and working with artistic directors and talking about the moment and what we're gonna do about it and how we're gonna move through it. And I think that really comes from being a creative person, right? And being, so for me, being an artist is also about how do I get immersed in my community and how does a community tell me the story that needs to be told? So I love when I go to a new community or I go somewhere on a residency and rather than telling people what I do, I always say, listen, I am the most ignorant person in this room. Tell me what I need to know about your community. Tell me what I need to know. So again, in the same way, you know, the other day I was having a conversation with somebody in my neighborhood and I know things about my neighborhood. I know that about this dancing, right? I know that we have a, how, what my community is composed of, you know, 93% of the people in my community are renters. We are essential workers. When I get up at 5.30 in the morning, I am getting up with people in uniforms going to work, right? I'm getting up with people who are going to be of service. So I think a lot of times along those lines, that is one of the ways that the stories come to us, right? From the place we're at. So where are you from? Who are your people? Are really, really important questions for me, right? And how does your neighborhood work? Oh, I'm sorry, I was, I was jumping. No, that's okay. How does your neighborhood work? How does your neighborhood work, right? Huh, huh. What about people who say like, hey, it's enough for me just to get my plays done. I mean, I don't need a whole nother. What do you say to that? I mean, is that valid to your mind? Absolutely. I mean, everybody comes from a different place. I will say that my play is my conversation that I'm having with either. I've kind of talked about this a little bit with myself. It's a play for me is a conversation that I'm having with God, with a lover, or with myself. And each one of those is a kind of different kind of play. You know what I'm saying? But when I think about it that way, the God plays are really about what's going on in the world and what is my place in the world and how do I make a better world? I go to the theater to learn how to be a better person, right? So if that is in fact the case, how do I translate channel interpret this moment that I'm in? So I studied with Irene Fornez, that was my mentor, right? And Maria Irene Fornez used to say to me, you know, there were a lot of great artists before you, a lot of great artists after you. All you have to do right now is just tell the story of today. And part of the way she used to say that is because I would put everything in my play. Like my plays had family and blood and lust and everything, right? And she would say, relax, relax, right? If you see yourself, not just in the one play, but in a lifetime of many plays, 50 plays, let's say, 25 plays, you can relax into every play, allows you to say one thing about the world that you're in, the moment that you're in right now, right? And I love that because in a way, I do myself need to relax into the moment. So I love when I'm able to focus the energy into the play and just the play is a slice of the pie, right? And not the whole thing, right? So I don't have to say the entire story of everything, but I love that. I think for me, it's just a way of saying, slow down, meditate. You know, I think one of the things we don't do enough as writers is conceptualize. The dream state, right? I call it the dreaming state. We don't do enough of that. To sit with myself and think about, what is it that's really, really troubling me? What is the thing that I wanna activate in the play? What do I wanna bring into the play? And so activism, taking an active interest in my community is a way of always being interested, of being full of inquiry, of idea, right? Without feeling like I have to invent anything. Mostly I'm just trying to get out of the way, right? Well, mostly you're trying to get out of the way, but when you're a performer, right? And you're like on stage, you're totally in the, you're totally present and visible. And how does that, if at all, does it change the way you write or not? How does that affect your writing? Sure, I mean, there's a couple of things here that I think are really interesting about having done performance and then also writing. One is that when I get ready to do performance, I always think about tennis players. You know, they talk to themselves before they get into that match. I do this thing where I say to myself, just tell the truth, get out of the way. Just tell the truth, you know what you have to do. Just get out of the way, right? So really I kind of relax into a performance. The other thing I believe very strongly about performance, and I learned that from another mentor, Morgan Janes, who said to me, you know, I needed to focus more on the 3D, the dimension of space to think about theater in terms of the dynamics of space. And I think as a performer, you're trying to fill space. So I studied a lot of performance art and we had this concept called deliberation. I love it. In the act of doing nothing, you are always doing something. In the act of doing nothing, you're always doing something. You're already performing. And the other idea for me about performance was, what is the space that needs you the most? Move towards the space that needs you the most. Move towards the character that needs you the most, right? So in a way, those are concepts about performance that I love bringing into writing, right? What needs me the most right now? What in my story is not dynamic enough? What is not being filled in? Where is that corner? Where is that space that has energy that I'm not taking advantage of? That's interesting, right? Because I think for me, I think that's the way I work. I get up in the morning, I think, what is the space that needs me the most? How do I fill that space today? It's very Pentecostal too. So I was raised very religious. And one of the Protestant ideas is, right? Service, but I love that. How can I be of service today to my own work? How can I be of service to the writing? I must do it, I must practice the religion of writing. So let me move towards the thing that needs me the most today. I'm talking, what do you do when it's hard to practice the religion of writing? I mean, it's... Yeah, I mean, some days I teach. Teaching is hard because it's hard to teach and write. I'm looking at Lisa D'Morris. I'm like, oh my God, you know, I just, my God, my heart goes out to, you know, those of us that are in the academy, right? Because it's hard. I think one of the things that I've gotten very good about is I steal a lot of exercises. I have this crazy little exercise in the morning. I call it my aerobics of the morning. I have a little Vaughn's Market Box recipe boxes. And I have an object, an action, and a line. And every morning I get up and I pull out an object. I pull out an action and I pull out a line and I write at least a 10, you know, 10 exchange little scene just to get me writing, right? Just to get me in the movement of writing. So I love things like that. I love the research of writing a play. So I think a lot of times people will say, well, you haven't written in a long time. And I'll say, well, actually, I feel like all I'm doing is writing. I'm getting in pregnant with the possibility of this play. All I'm doing is researching, right? So I love the details and the facts. You know, I'm spending a lot of time right now just thinking about seminaries and how they work and why is a Catholic church getting rid of so many? And, you know, I'm reading all the articles. That is essential to the writing. That is writing. Uh-huh. I keep looking at you like, I keep looking at you for permission. No, I'm smiling and I love you. I don't want to get into the conversation about that right now. Yeah. Because I want to take you out for a virtual glass of wine and talk about that. But I feel like taking some questions from our fabulous group here. Go ahead. Of course. Do you have any questions for Luis? Hey, team. Oh, we got a question. All right. Russell, you are up first. Are you there? Yes, right here. Great to be here. Great to meet you. Um, a big note that I've been getting recently has been some of my secondary characters feel like they're only really there to serve the protagonist. I was wondering if you could share some insight or techniques to really like flesh out those secondary characters and make them feel fuller and three dimensional. I love this question because it's something I wrestle with a lot myself. I will say that I subscribe to, I have this book, this little thin book that I would suggest to everybody get called The Presence of the Actor by Joe Chakin, Joseph Chakin. And I love it because inside of this book he has seven questions. And the questions are about how actors create a character. For me, I use them for how I create a character in a play. And the first question for me is so beautiful. What is the one thing that people cannot see when they look at you? What is the one thing that people cannot see when they look at you? Is there a part of you that has not lived yet? What would make that part live? How wonderful and active are these questions for characters, right? It's in a way you're creating backstory, you're creating nuance of character, you're creating the logic that manifests into a character's action. Does that make sense? So that the character is not just there to serve but the character is a fully fleshed, interesting person that is contributing to the play in an essential way. So I love, get that book because that book is so good, right? What was the title again? It's called The Presence of the Actor, Joseph Chakin. I wish we could go on and do a whole Chakin because he was extraordinary. He was really extraordinary. Yeah. And the other thing, the other exercise I use a lot is Irene Foran has taught me an exercise which was take your character's age and cut it in half. Look at that half age. Something happened to that character at that age that determines how they move through the world. And so your characters are acting a certain way because they live a certain way or they see the world a certain way. And all of a sudden it makes your characters opinionated, right? And we need opinions on stage. We need a lot of opinions. We need people to try to interrupt the flow of the play. We want the play to have that kind of energy, right? The energy that is unpredictable that creates wonderful, wonderful rhythms, right? And the way people respond to one another. Oh my gosh, that's so cool. I never thought about that. Oh, wow, that's awesome. Beautiful to meet you. Beautiful to meet you. Thank you. Thank you, Russell. All right, we don't have another question quite yet but I bet we will if we wait momentarily. What do you like to write? Do you have a favorite medium? I mean, you write short stories, you write plays, you write lots of things. What's your favorite kind of thing to write? Do you have one? Well, it's funny. I think that the community, I love the most was the poetry community because there was no money involved. And it was really a community, right? But I think I found my alchemy was really in playwriting. I think it took a long time to find that. I studied with Irene for a long time and also Paula Vogel used to come to LA every year. And so Paula and there's been a lot of people in my life that have helped me make sense of writing. But I think I find my strength or at least I find my passion in playwriting. I wrote a screenplay that took me two years and it was interesting to learn how to write screenplays. And I was very happy and it got made into a film in the whole bit. And every time I get a check, I still get checks for it which is amazing, right? And every time I get a check, I think, wow, I gotta go back to that form. But it's not my passion. I would say that theater is where I find my full expression. I do have, if there's no other question, I do have a- We have a couple of questions if you- Oh, okay, go for it, go for it. All right, Carla, you are up next. Hello, hi, Luis, hi everybody. Hi. Hi, nice to meet you. I apologize, there's music in the background because I'm from Washington Heights and the parties outside. And I live on the first floor. But I guess my question is I've seen Mojada and Erepozel Rey. And I guess my question is, I'm writing something that includes a bit of magic and sort of mysticism and stuff like that. And so I'm wondering, I know it probably includes some research, but I'm wondering how much do you make up or extend the bounds of like- I mean- That you're- Yeah. Okay, so I have to just say something really quick. I'm gonna throw this at Susan Laurie for a second because my delivery guy is here and he's at the door. So I'm gonna run really fast. I'll be right back. Laura, Susan Laurie, take it. Oh, my- I'm in a vamp and he comes back because it's a question for him. What I wanna know is what he's getting, you know? Like, is it like takeout? Is it something from the evil empire, Amazon? Or is it, ha, ha? You see? I just have to answer this question because this is a question for you, man. I love this. Yes, I feel that for me, the classics are really just parameter. I really don't have a lot of loyalty to them. For me is I use the classic as a way of learning how to be a better writer because they're so beautifully put together. But the other thing is there's really big questions. And sometimes I think as a Chicano, I will admit that sometimes I get lost in the smaller questions of community. So how do I keep asking the big questions about my identity, about who we are as a people, about what we're trying to say at this moment in our culture, right? So I think, you know, using the classics that way is really, really important for me. I love being inspired by the idea that I don't have to stay in any one box. So going to the Greek really takes me outside of myself, right? Going to the Greeks is as far away from me as possible. So that's part of the reason why I have been using it. But they've all come out of very specific community experiences. So electricity, that was because I was doing a project with a team felons. Oedipus was, because I did a residency at current state prison. And Mojada was, you know, I was writing about the undocumented in Daly City in near San Francisco. So all of them really came out of something personal and local for me. But they, and then they jumped into the bigger idea, right? What's the big question? Why is it that we still suffer from the violence of poverty the way we do? Why is it that we still destroy each other as a community? Right? So in a way, I think if you can use it that way, use it that way. But I would caution that the one thing I say is, you know, don't stay so loyal that your voice gets lost. It's your point of view. It's your point of view that we wanna see, right? Anne Bogart just said something really interesting at this panel the other day. She said, the three things we need right now in the culture is passion, point of view, and perhaps. And that she felt very strongly that our point of view had gotten too narrow, right? And I thought, oh, this is really, really important. How do I open it up? How do I keep opening myself up? And how do I see myself as a world artist? How do I see myself? I always write from this corner right here in Koreatown, but I see myself as a resident of the world. And that shifts me, that shifts the writing. It makes the writing bigger. It makes it bolder. It makes it more fantastical, right? Magic, magic. So the magic then makes sense. Does that make sense? Like on my magic, I'm doing this play right now at the seminary. There's a guy in it who has never left the seminary. Like literally never left his room. Well, you know, I don't know. I don't know if that's possible. There's magic to the experience of what I'm trying to bring into that. About faith, what do we believe? And I think that's such joyful thing to bring to the theater. What do we believe when we walk into this place that we're all gonna share this religious site that we're all gonna, this spiritual experience we're gonna have called theater, right? How much are we willing to coin it? Does that help at all? Yeah, it does, it does. It's because I think it's because the thing I'm writing, the magic, I'm like filling with it, but it's not connecting with the real characters. And so it's great that, I guess for me, I guess I started backwards. I started thinking about the magic and not so much about the character and how that makes the real world. So this is something I think about a lot. And I wonder, you know, this is something I've always wanted to ask Susan Laurie is I tend to hardly ever think about plots and I always think about character and great characters give us great stories, right? I'm not sure that great stories ever give me great character. So I'm always a little lost that way, but I will say that magic has logic. And somebody I admire very much is Diana Sun, the writer, because I love the way she heard magic. It always has so much logic to it, right? It will make sense, yeah, eventually. At least I was saying magic has logic. I believe that completely. Magic has logic. Yeah, there is a thread, right? There is a beautiful thread that comes out of it, right? So everything has a kind of sense of logic attached to it, but you have to do the work. It's a building and there's architecture involved, especially in magic. If it floats, how does it float? It could also float through faith, right? It could just be that. Beautiful, beautiful. Hey, Louise, thanks, Carla. We've got about eight minutes left and we're going to go to Elizabeth. Elizabeth, are you there? I'm on YouTube, I guess. Hi. Hello. I'm curious about how your poetry writes. Yes. I believe the art of writing is rewriting. So for me, when I go into rewrites, I try to do that thing that my doctor says I shouldn't do in real life, but I should do in the theater, which is to compartmentalize. I laugh about it, because it's what's gotten us in trouble in the culture, but in playwriting, I think it's very good to compartmentalize. By that, I just mean, when I go back into a rewrite, I follow a character. I follow a thread. Does that make sense? Yes. I follow the logic of a character through. So right now I'm really wrestling with what's happening to somebody who a lot of things are happening to that person, right? And how is that person in this play the activator of these events, right? So in a way, my rewrite is just writing through that character. What am I missing in that character that is making that character so passive? When did that character run out of opinion? And that's my lead. So there's a problem, right? And so I would say that I have to activate the character through something as beautiful as the passionate idea. Why am I here? Why is this play happening in this moment right now? Right? Does that make sense? Yes. So I love rewriting that takes characters all the way through an experience. Then I write a lot way more than I ever need, but I feel that then I really, really understand the character and the authenticity of that character because I've really invested in who they are in the world and what they believe about the world. And then out of that interesting little detours happen that sometimes become more interesting than the play itself. Okay, thank you. Thank you. Thanks Louise. Good classes. All right, we're gonna go to Melina. Melina, are you there? Yes, I am. Hi, Louise. Hi, Melina. My goodness, I haven't seen you in so long. I know. So you're such a wonderful storyteller and you love to rewrite like through the process. And I've never asked you this. Can you talk about how you approach performing even though it's your own work? Is there a point when you say, okay, I've got to stop rewriting this and think about like work. I mean, can you talk about the performing aspect of your work? Sure, yeah. I mean, I don't improvise. I'm not a good improviser and I would never do that. So I like having a finished as finished as it can be text, right? I love the idea that I reached the end of a sentence almost in my writing. So when I'm working on a play with other actors and I was just talking about this at the public because they were like, wow, you rewrote all the way through. And I said, yeah, cause I write to the actor. I write to the actor's voice. So sometimes I change the language of my play, not the story of my play, but the language because the actor sounds better saying certain words, if that makes sense. And for in performance, I'm very conscious of how I use language, right? So I do get to a moment where I stop. Things get deeper the more you repeat the experience. So a good example is the last thing I did was this piece called, St. Jude, the story of my father's death. And I did it for, oh boy, a run-up in Chicago. And there's a moment in that play where I talk about the moment when my father dies and then I just cry. This is a theatrical moment. I just start crying and I cry until somebody in the audience takes over. Sometimes people would come up and hug me. Sometimes people would hand me a tissue. Another time somebody came up and kind of talked while I was weeping. I mean, it was really, really intense experience. That was a performative experience, right? But I will say that the text was done. What I was keeping open was the possibility of what the audience was gonna do. And so that's a good example of a performance where I kept the fluorescence on. They were waiting for the show to start and the show just kept going, right? And then 45 minutes into it, you're like, oh, okay, this is the show. I am part of the show. I am part of the grieving. I am part of the idea of how death works and I'm gonna have to participate. If nothing else to watch this guy kind of grieve his father's moment of death. But the writing's done. The writing is done. I think it's really important to designate when I'm a writer and when I'm the performer. Because if not, I think you can get really lost. And you know, there's always better to do, right? I could have made it better, but I have to stop. That's what I love about the time in the theater. I love how you get how many weeks and then it's done, right? You gotta put it up. Do you feel like the director helps you to act as a dramaturg a little so that you can... Oh, yeah, definitely. Yeah, I work with Che you a lot. And one of the reasons why I work with Che so much is I, and I talk about this, Che is a poet. He is a writer. I don't really just have a director in the room. I have another poet in the room. So when he talks to me about language, we are talking a common language here, right? He's talking to me about how I'm using words. I love that. I love a director who understands writing too, right? And I love that he's a director who also was a writer, who still is a writer, right? Because he in a way is helping me craft. And I really think of him as a partner, not as a director writer. I think of him as the co-writer in the room, right? He's very essential for me. He's very important. He's wonderful with edits. I could talk forever. And I love when he says, I wonder if we just already said everything we need to say in that scene. And you're like, yeah, maybe, but you know, and you want to keep talking. And he's like, you know, no, stop, right? So I love that. Good to see you, my friend. Thank you, Melina. Do we want to do one more in the last minute or so? Do you have time? Go for it, go for it. Awesome. Mario. Hi. Hi. So I just wanted to go back to the example that you gave earlier about the slices in the pie. I think sometimes we can have so many competing ideas, particularly when we see ourselves again in communities that are affected by so many things that are happening around us in the moment. Obviously right now we're torn between, you know, health issues and racism and government corruption and things that are all happening. Can you just talk a little bit about maybe the things that you found useful and how to narrow down where to find your focus and maybe not be afraid that you're going to lose the ideas if you don't tackle them all at once. So kind of that process of focus on this slice for now and you can come back to the other slice later. Yeah, I mean, this is the thing I learned from Paula Vogel. It's, she's big on the list and I love the list. I have a list in the living room and it's on my wall. It changes according to my interest, but I always have a list, right? I always have the ideas there. And the thing that keeps staying up there is the thing I have to eventually get to. And there's something that keeps sort of winning in the list, which is the thing that I really need to do. So this is a really important note. The things that I want to do versus the things that I need to do. And I think when you say like what's calling you are the elements of our community, what do you want to deal with but what do you need to deal with? Because that's very different. That's a different kind of writing. And I will say that as someone who used to throw everything in the pots, I find that getting clear and a beautiful crystallized piece about one idea is a wonderful way of working, right? You get deep inside of it. It's the difference between the one night stand and the getting married, right? Passion grows, passion grows in a play. And so if you don't commit to the passion of the play, you never really know the play. And I think that's really important is I want to get deep inside of that play. I want to marry it and I want to have kids with it and I want to have a life with that play, right? Important. Exactly, thank you so much. What a pleasure to meet you, thank you. Thanks Mario, thanks Luis. It's 6-0-2. Wow, that was fast. Yeah. So quickly, thank you. Thank you you guys for coming today. Thank you Luis Afaro for being a righteous brother, a great writer and national treasure and dropping all these pearls of wisdom on us. I saw a lot of people taking notes. So we really, really, really appreciate the wisdom that you've shared with us today and every day through your work. So we're welcome to come back anytime you want to hang out with us some more and share some more with us. We would love, love, love to have you. Thank you, I would love it. And just to say, I uplift you and say, I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for you. So there you go. Thank you. Yeah, well you're such a sweetheart. Well, we'll be back tomorrow. We'll be back tomorrow. As a reminder, please sign up by 3 p.m. Eastern time every day on public theater website and I'll send you a link between 3 p.m. and 4.30 p.m. Eastern. Thanks everyone, thanks Luis. Thanks Essel. Thank you, love you. Bye, love you, bye.