 Okay, I will now call to order this regular meeting of the Manuski City Council Please join us in the Pledge of Allegiance led by Deputy Mayor Jim Duncan Thank you Okay, next is a gender review We have heard that our auditor will not be able to make it this evening Would someone like to make a motion to table an item D Second motion by Bryn second by Thomas all those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Motion carries Any other agenda review items? All right It's time for public comment any public comment back there All right There's no one attending on zoom either So we will move to council reports Aurora. Can I start with you? Sure, I don't have anything very specific to report this Wednesday morning though is the second in person meeting of ideal Vermont Which I will be attending along with inclusion and belonging chair Parker Silver The infrastructure Commission met this past Thursday. We elected new officers. So Brian Bora will be chair Michelle messler will be vice chair Jason will be continuing on he has been serving as the chair this past year has been really valuable to have him after transitioning from Laura to like it to look like he after seven years in that role So it's been tough shoes to fill. So He's staying on a secretary and then in the meeting we just had a lot of discussion around Work plan for the remainder of this fiscal year And a lot of questions around capital projects. So it was mainly the chunk of it. We'll meet again on February 16th All right. Thank you. I Just want to express our heartfelt thanks To Janet Breard for 32 years of service as the deputy city clerk. I don't know if she's watching this somewhere Also tell her this in person but She will be leaving our service and I think before the next meeting Just wanted to acknowledge the decades of good work that she has done for the city She will be missed Jim Thank you. My updates today involve the airport commission and the housing commission so the airport commission met on Wednesday and Discussed a number of capital projects that are underway Of note to That might be a particular interest to this Municipality to the city is that the noise exposure monitoring Sorry noise exposure mapping update is about to restart for the next round and that we have additional Presence data for F-35. So they'll be reconvening the Advisory group including the original membership or at least invitations out to original membership sometime in the next couple weeks So that'll be a process starting up the other piece that the airport commission reviewed was Recent noise complaints from the airport's noise monitoring system So as a reminder residents can submit comments through the airport's noise monitoring system And those can be tied to specific plane tracks is particularly useful for commercial flights The commission or the staff support for the commission did note that they have not been able to get useful data from the air guard on Complaints around F-35 flights, which is the group that normally takes in those complaints So there's no real way to overlay the noise complaint data from military flights with the civilian flights so the The numbers reported in the complaint monitoring system may are not really representative of the F-35 flights primarily just the civilian flights the housing commission had a extra long meeting on Thursday where we talked primarily about our housing chapter ordinance chapter 9 and We received a number of staff updates and a lot of discussion around Some changes proposed to that ordinance that would first of all in order would define short-term rentals it's a Term that has not been defined in our ordinances previously. So that'll be useful for future discussions around If and how to consider short-term rentals in the city It focused on We talked about trash again It's a common topic for the housing commission during these quality of life and health and safety questions in housing ordinances specifically talking about What type of rubbish clearing constitutes the violation of the ordinance and also adding enforceability to the ordinance so that if there is rubbish accumulation Whether it's on the owner or on the occupant or the manager or whichever whoever the responsible party is that it gives code enforcement the ability to actually write a ticket for that violation which currently is missing and Some more definition on the types of things that count as rubbish such as Broken appliances or couches left out in yards We probably spent the most time talking about minimum room size And I'm sorry to spend some time in these but we did talk about it quite a bit I think it's worth alerting this group to the fact that our current ordinances define certain minimum area requirements for housing people and when the number of people exceeds that space the Code enforcement is kind of left in a pickle So discussing these minimum room sizes and additional Sleeping areas is really something that we should be paying attention to as this ordinance is rewritten sick We know we have limited supply of housing, but when you have overcrowding it creates the life's safety risk So we need to be balanced in these as a community So there'll be more discussion on that finally the commission did discuss the Fact sheet around the just cars eviction charter change Petition and I'll save findings from that for our item later in the agenda Sorry for the long report, but thank you for listening Um Excuse me. What don't want to scheme out last Wednesday and the majority of the meeting was Eric came and presented The sidewalk changes. I think it was very fruitful meeting. I don't know if you're sharing that graph to my Um, but I think there's going to talk about that later. So I'll just leave it up. All right Let's move to city updates Elaine Yes So as you know, we're continuing the fiscal year 2024 budget meetings tonight with the final budget vote by council on what will be presented to the voters Be sure to keep an eye out for our official town meeting day announcements Which will include all of the budget meeting and election information that you need We will have a joint budget presentation Community dinner with the Winnieski school district sponsored by the Winnieski partnership for prevention on February 9th at the O'Brien Community Center and the annual town meeting day presentation at the Winnieski school district on March 6th If you have questions, feel free to call or email 655 6410 in the city hall or you can email budget at Winnieski vt. Go You can also reach out to any city councillor or staff by visiting Winnieski vt. Gov slash contact If you're interested in running for a local office on town meeting day, the deadline is coming up That's to file paperwork 5 p.m. On Monday, January 30 There are two city council seats up for election and three school district seats up for election The two city council seats are for two-year terms the school district seats are the treasurer for a three-year term and two school district Trustee seats one for a three-year term and the other for a two-year term to appear on the ballot You must be a Winnieski resident and file a consent of candidate form and a petition with a minimum of 30 signatures To the city clerk's office again by 5 p.m. January 30 If you have any questions about this process, please do contact the city clerk's office again at 655 6410 Clerk at Winnieski vt. Gov or come in the city hall at 27 West Allen Street 730 to 430 each day Monday through Friday As a reminder that Vermont Department of Health will be closing all state run walk-in vaccination clinics by January 31st Local health offices will continue to help vaccinate anyone who does not have a primary care provider Or the local pharmacy Accessible if you need COVID-19 test kits They are available for free at city hall at the city city's library and the senior center during regular hours And finally the city of Winnieski was sent a press release today by the Vermont Air National Guard They will be performing night flying from Tuesday, January 17th to Friday, January 20 And from Tuesday, January 24th to Friday. I'm sorry. This is a little bit dated so Then it would be um tomorrow January 24th through January 27th is what's now Going into the future with two takeoff and landing periods scheduled between 1 p.m. And 8 p.m There are no scheduled morning flights. Their press release was shared on our city channels. Thank you, Lane I mistakenly skipped the consent agenda We have council minutes from January 17th and accounts payable warrant from January 19th Do you have a motion to approve so move Second motion by brin second by thomas all those in favor. Please say aye. Hi motion carries. Thank you okay We are on to regular items First up is on for discussion the public hearing to receive comments on the proposed fy 24 budget and capital plan Do you want to do a brief intro? Yes So on december 5th 2022 the city manager, that's me presented an overview of the fy 24 proposed budget to city council Since that meeting council has received presentations from each department And they discussed cuts and ads at the january 17th meeting and approved on a 4 to 1 vote The following adjustments to the city manager's recommended budget Increasing the housing initiative director from 30 to 40 hours per week Maintaining the youth interventionist at 28 hours per week Including a mediated community voice or our engagement Funds for immediate mediated community voice or engagement at $8,000 Reducing supplies budget for recreation programs by $4,000 And removing the second library circulation assistant For an f this uh combined as an fy 24 proposed general fund budget total of 9,242,032 Dollars and 87 cents which would constitute an estimated 5.09 percent tax rate increase over fy 23 the current year that we're in Okay So A public hearing did we notice this already? Yes. Okay. Yeah A public hearing has been noticed for the consideration of the fy 24 proposed general fund budget Uh this time I would like to open the public hearing Is there any public comment in the room tonight? I see there is a raised hand in zoom paul Please bring in indra over Yes, welcome indra. Well, I was here before and I am here again and I don't think the reason is unclear to y'all Uh Before I begin saying anything that I have to say I just want y'all to kind of go on an Imaginary journey of like, you know, there is a city that's the most diverse in the entire state Talks about being diverse and takes pride in that Well, I also recognize is uh either quick video editor who shared experience from by talk Leaders of the community that racism is prevalent in the community be in the school system Be at the local government level It when there is a time to decide on the funding Despite all those big talks about equity and whatnot. The first item to cut is racial equity director the spending From the budget of billions of dollars to $1,000 on racial equity If you're going to be hearing that like not as a city council member of inner state, but rather as a You know really for you being how would you feel like that is something really concerning to me and in the last Year in delay talked about the program and I am happy to say that I In terms of doing the equity work with the city of Newsy I am happy to keep my labor I'm driving right now, but I'm happy to tap because I really do see the future but like when I see the rule of hands and the hesitation to spend the money Despite all these talk about equity. I am really frustrated like I am frustrated and it's not on me Like I was going to read a lot of letters Facebook faces this text messages that I've gotten from people They cannot come to the meeting because it's Monday at 6 p.m. And you know, there is a black woman in the community who's mid We used to be at her home for 15 years and she was like, I'm reading it up to show up in in her words So like I'm not going to censor myself. It is fucked up that they're not Fratricizing equity and she can't show up in the meeting because it's Monday evening So I don't know what is left to be done. We all have heard about this And I am pretty aware that you understand the importance of this work But I just I just didn't understand like $8,000 Out of the city government budget, we are a racial equity director could not even stand the pollution for too long Like I don't know what's going on in your mind. Like who's talking about it? Please like if you want to talk about the diversity being a big thing for the city of Newsy If you want to continue writing that thing, get the christening notes written that we write like spend some money Our budget speaks value and in the budget proposed A thousand dollars for like racial equity It really didn't show me that you all care about racial equity And that is a disservice to a lot of people including I with software At the ratio of the city of Newsy, I have software and it's documented out there So please do something about it. That's all I have to say I hope you all, you know Put accent into the things that I don't say I hope you're really major I know the times are really tough I work in organizations. I support government and I know that in the positive process What we do is we ask what is urgent and what is the most important thing for our city? That's the first question everybody asks in the positive process and if racial equity If racial justice is not a top priority community And if you're to say that love To say that love, it did not fall under the most important category Therefore we're not keeping it. If you can see that, I would probably think we'll help us see where your values are But like don't play the game of you know We care about the diversity, the most diverse and how they aim when it comes to spending the money How they're not willing to put the money so I tend to frustrate it and share all the things that I have to say share But I think y'all know all of this already and I've you know spoken before so please do the right thing It's not for you. It's not for me. It's for the city of U.S.D. And when you walk on the street You see the real need for us to do that work. So I hope y'all consider that and you know take necessary action. Thank you Thank you, Indra I do want to share that we we've had this discussion um The eight thousand dollars for the engagement program and the money for Interpretation are not the only investments that we see ourselves making towards racial justice I don't have the numbers off hand, but The additional time that we're funding for um child care the youth interventionist position recreation assistant and admin and outreach coordinator Are all tied to the ability to deliver the services we already do With more focus on equity These previously grant funded roles have created more accessibility to local government for the community So we have prioritized retaining those As well as the funding for the housing initiative director To address concerns one of the primary concerns coming from the equity audit So I understand the position or the feelings around the equity director role um But I believe that the you know the thinking coming from staff and Some members of council is that we are still prioritizing this but in different ways more related to direct service potentially than having a strategic director role Which we do hope to bring back in the future. It is not like permanently cut What you said a particular program focus on bite of people who have historically suffered at the hands of and the lack of action from the city of We must be in any state government. It's like we don't we don't want to do that, but there will be a program that will influence All of that. I'm not saying it won't increase equity But like let's name it racial inequity is a problem in the city of ministry If you all want to have a conversation about it whether not that's true You Thank you, Indra Okay, I don't see any other public Can I read um Letter that came in from the n AAA cp to members of council Sure, it's a little duplicative, but go ahead So I think I think it's important to recognize that we're getting These comments from many different areas. So Just for those who might not know the n AAA cp stands for national national association for the advancement of colored people um, they sent a brief letter today just voicing their concern That reads dear winewski city counselors the vermont branch of the n AAA cp Are disappointed and surprised to hear that the city has not As decided not to keep the racial justice Director position primarily due to the large volume of BIPOC people living in the area The city's decision to allocate only $8,000 towards racial equity initiatives Is more than reprehensible when the city has a millions of dollar budget As city officials it is vital that you make time for and prioritize what you care about If this budget is a reflection or a manifestation of your values Then we indeed are worried for the citizens of winewski's ability to have an unbiased voice Representing them at the table We hope that you strategically think about and then reconsider this decision We look forward to being in touch soon Thank you All right, so seeing no additional comment. I will close the public hearing And we will move to item b which is discussion or approval of the f by 24 general fund budget and capital plan to present two voters This is Essentially just are we ready to vote on what we voted on last week and move that forward Are there additional questions thoughts comments? um I Do have some things that I would like to put forward um the first is And I believe this is the most appropriate part of our agenda to address these items I would like to make a motion to include the equity director and its salary as a separate budgetary item on the ballot There's a motion on the table Or would you be accepting of alteration to that motion? Oh sure. Yeah um I agree with what christine had said. Sorry. What the mayor had said last week about Not wanting to put individual positions on um The on the voters on town meeting day, but I wonder if instead we could put The principle of equity of equity And what that would cost the city on the budget. Oh, I'm sorry. I can't talk on the vote instead. So Say a lotting a certain amount of money that would be used to pay for the equity director And any other equity programs that the city were to engage in And then we won't be voting for just one position, but The ethos of what we're looking to get I have similar concerns about piecemealing the budget for voters You know, all we're allowed to put on the ballot is a total number of dollars And if we're not willing to do our work of presenting a budget That meets priorities and is still fiscally responsible I I don't think when you go into the ballot and see those total dollars if you aren't following along It's really hard to know how that's going to impact you However, we are going to be discussing and presenting the budget where we can discuss those items. I I'm concerned that especially with your example last time there a lot that that was kind of a false equivalency and it's not taking into account This you know, we've acknowledged that this is a very very difficult budget year That is something that we've talked about in detail And What I see is We are proposing to cut a very important position that many residents feel the city needs We are also acknowledging that We don't want to raise taxes in a way that would be too inequitable as well So acknowledging that especially because the Model of taxation property taxes used isn't income sensitive So acknowledging that that in itself does have an equity component It's for that reason that recognizing kind of these two items of The city needs to provide the residents what it needs with also the city not wanting to burden the residents in a way I feel like that makes it appropriate to put this to the ballot, I think you know Maybe that's not the way we've always done it, but you know, that's an excuse for a lot So I personally see that I don't Feel comfortable supporting The budget as it currently stands because I don't think it prioritizes equity in the way that you believe it does we got from Uh last time we got unfunded needs from the staff that didn't include a lot of the unfunded needs that fall under equity um Including items like how our current zoning has contributed to racial and economic segregation in the city that has been documented as part of the equity audit As well as like the issues of public transportation How best to support The winewski's aging population the language access plan We have a lot of un and underfunded equity needs And if we're not, you know, I'm just asking us to prioritize those in the same way We're prioritizing and keeping in mind other unfunded needs. So I Appreciate and like the the framing that Councilor Renner has proposed which if you don't feel comfortable asking for a specific position A specific an amount might be um A better solution For me it has the same problem And I would struggle with what goes into how we would describe the existing commitment of this budget to equity I consider Of the things that you've listed. I don't see any of those being solved by having an equity director and the things that we are investing in like sidewalks and non non first come first serve electronic registration for community programming and after school like those are those are things that actually address some of those very issues and in terms of access to services in the city for seniors or serving our kids who are predominant who are majority not like You know who come from the school district where uh, the majority people speak another language aside from english like that's a huge investment So how do we quantify that and the answer is we won't be able to we can provide an estimate So the question would be we're already putting this much in Do we do more? And how do we rank that against the things that we take? Well, I just don't know how you would frame that in a way that gives people gives the voters in ballot language clear picture of what's already being invested in equity and solving some of these direct equity challenges and have them wait that against a position or I don't even know what the additional body of work is that like that's that hasn't been defined That's completely isolated from the existing equity investments. We're already making so I think if there's a way to frame that question about what is our relative Like is equity a thing that this community is committed to I guess I don't feel like I need the voters to tell me That's already true And I don't think that we need a number because we couldn't put it in the budget anyways It could provide direction to the next round, but I don't see that Putting a number in it is I think problematic in a number of ways Asking a client the question of principle. I think is important as it would be interesting to know But I don't think it would change my perception of the community's needs which is to focus on equity And I feel like this budget does that I can understand that however Kind of what I'm hearing is we know there are these needs But we're not going to put money aside to figure out how to address them Like some of that is the thing is like we need to figure out how to address them the way this budget is presented Is oh, we are addressing some needs But we don't feel we want to Advance and increase our equity work. So we're going to deprived prioritize it in this budget Acknowledging that yes, these questions will come up again next budget season But if we are not what we're saying is we're not going to think about equity in the way that it needs to be thought about We're not going to put funds aside that we can then if we're not comfortable doing an equity director position That that we can then explore other alternatives Like maybe increasing or exploring a More robust way to have that community outreach plan That takes into account that People aren't going to come to us We need contractors and to pay Leaders in the community to reach out to community members who are disenfranchised to Don't trust the government or don't quite understand what we do to explain that Before they can then come to the table as members of the community that are under represented it And present what they need or comment on what the city is doing and how that affects them So while I can acknowledge that maybe the equity director position at this time isn't the best way to go I also Don't think saying we're not going to set aside any money to do this work whether it's contract work Whether it's paying community members Whether it's doing additional translation work additional outreach It just doesn't sit right with me. We're setting aside money for that. Yeah in this budget Yeah in a way that I don't think My fear is that you know, we set aside it in a way that isn't truly meaningful and then If these funds aren't used because we haven't done the work to actually make things accessible and address address the key Kind of foundational equity issues Then they aren't going to be used and then There's going to be this this argument of like, oh, they just aren't needed because they weren't used and it's like no They weren't needed because we didn't set aside the resources and the time and the funds to do them correctly However, one example is there are there are Siphons available for inclusion and belonging and not all of those funds are even being Utilized that were that are being offered because that's a choice of the commissioner So there's also the that component where funds are available and they're not going unutilized because we're not working at ensuring that they're available, but there's A decision that folks can utilize that if they choose to or not So there's there's it's not entirely one or the other There's there's got that realm of in between two. Well, you can't let's see. There's the thing You can't argue that we can't use one-time funds for this work But then also argue that oh, we have funds that are one-time funds to do this work What I am asking is to put equity on the budget in The general fund to fund it going forward in this particular case I can appreciate and understand why council has those concerns however, I Would like to continue to Highlight that I don't think it's enough and it's not quite doing what We hope it is doing We're adding funds to do exactly community engagement and accessibility We have a recommendation from staff for how much to include now as a pilot We're first doing it if it's not enough we will use reserves staff to us Staff come to us for reserve requests in that case And then next year when we see how it plays out if it needs more money, we can put more money in The other thing I really would wish that these conversations could separate between doing our equity work and the equity director position Because I think as the comments that we've received today show there's a like a Miseducation of the people who are going to be voting on this item Or there's going to be confusion that we're only putting in eight thousand or two thousand or ten thousand But we're putting in hundreds of thousands of dollars into equity work through this budget And to say that we're not doing our equity work by not having a director Is to say like we didn't have a communications director that we aren't doing communications We would still be doing those things, but we we aren't doing both and I think that we We got to be clear with the community that like equity work and equity director are not are not The same and we're doing a lot and this budget does a lot. It's a huge investment in changing what we Institutionalizing something that we haven't done before Except through grants and so I think I guess I'm just urging us to use language That's pretty clear about what we're doing because when I hear someone say oh you're only investing ten thousand dollars in equity You're giving up on this that's That's just not right and I think that we're going to have a challenging community discussion If we can't even talk about the same thing And I think it's really so in this conversation too as we consider this motion and the potential change that's been proposed Let's talk about the difference between equity work and equity director to oversee that work I'm concerned that You're not understanding exactly what equity work is like I acknowledge that we put I would actually ask you not to tell me what I do or don't understand You can state what you think that please don't say what I think Fair enough my apologies um I mean, I think there is a There's something to be said for the fact that I do agree. We have put a lot of money into the budget that Is going to benefit equity work and creates equity work But the fact that so many community members do not feel that we have done that We're clearly not communicating very well at all and that's not on any one individual but A lot of what we do And is perception of the community and if the community doesn't feel That we're doing equity work that does say something whether we are or we're not it's That does say something. I mean it might also say that it we're doing not enough equity work and this um residents are still experiencing amount of harm that It's really hard to put monetary value to and I understand that Sorry, we live in a society and we Can only work on this With the funds available Sorry, um However, it's really hard to as a body say that We are going to fund work that yes is meeting some needs and is addressing some harm that has existed But we're not going to address all of it um And acknowledging that harm will continue to happen And I just I want to prioritize Doing the work to address that and I can I understand and I respect that we put money Into doing that work and is building equity In one way, but but I mean it's also offering services Right, it's offering services to community that everyone is using and we're hearing that there is equity concerns that are very very specific around racial equity um, I think we've also heard concerns around Like uh, you know best supporting elders in our community and um meeting accessibility needs in certain ways so I guess that's really what i'm trying to get at is Thinking about that. Yes, we are meeting some needs, but we are not meeting others I know that that's always going to be the case, but also acknowledging that there is active harm In that it's valid what you say And that is that is a difficult thing to That we have to deal with Are there any additional questions or comments? On that particular motion In general, all right, I would like to make a motion that we set aside $200,000 of ARPA funds to support equity in FY 24 and beyond I don't believe we can do that that's not been warned On the agenda, right if we're making a decision about ARPA funding that should be an agenda item This is specifically about the FY 24 general budget and capital plan All right Well, couldn't you can make the motion to allocate because it's reserves right now So you can move to increase the budget by that amount with its source being reserves lower the reserves by that and increase the I mean isn't that Is that what you're proposing? It's easy. That would be right to reserve funds Angela We haven't worn that either, but I had something you could do anytime honestly If it was work, okay If we're if we're limiting the FY 24 budget to increase the use of ARPA to add in that position and additional money for equity I think that we it is covered by what's currently doesn't learn that would Create a automatic Need to increase taxes in FY 25 By about three and a half cents three point four cents Before any of them increases or remove it in FY 25 And we are currently proposing that this position will come back In FY 25 if it's not on the FY 24 budget So that sounds like All second Motion by Aurora second by Thomas all those in favor. Please say aye. Aye those opposed name Motion fails I would like to make a motion To add an advisory item on the ballot to ask residents if they would like the city to Have an equity director position Is that something we can motion without language in the agenda packet? Oh, I mean you're voting on the warning next so But it doesn't if they're they could have voted to change but they can be voting to change that can't they They didn't work yet I'm understanding and he'll be on me. Oh either of you. Do you have past experience with that? Not for an advisory item With the way that it's currently proposed I don't see a potential issue The previous iterations that have been suggested of voting on the position as a separate item in the budget could pose challenges Should that item pass any other budget fail? Where we then need to increase the overall budget and free vote What is the language you're suggesting Aurora? um I am suggesting it is an advisory item so that it is Not a specific financial but similar to what The councillor Duncan talked about a little bit was is um Kind of asking residents in a similar way that we've done. Let's say the pool or the regional dispatch asking residents to kind of Put their support for We're against having that specific position within the city. So What I propose and this might need to be workshopped a bit um, is a ballot item that asked residents If they would like the city to Prioritize having an equity director position Or maybe if prioritized doesn't work to just have an equity director position I My concerns still stand in directing The manager essentially what staffing model needs to be used And having a vote behind that that removes flexibility in the future when that's needed Regardless of if there's money associated. I think it's it's still troubling to me. I'm just putting that out there I'm specifically putting it forward so that we're committed to doing that work So I understand your concern, but that's also why I think it's important There's a motion on the table Kind of point of order. Wouldn't this be more appropriate to our next item where we actually propose an amendment to our warning? Yes, add an article five Yeah, we'll with exact language. Let's revisit that. Okay. I think if Comment on it even though I asked to punt it. I think That's it's an interesting idea. And I wonder if we can make it position agnostic And instead of adding a staff position mandate from the voters if there's a way to word it that Speaks to the work that you feel is not being adequately prioritized That doesn't call out a specific position again because if in five years that position is no longer than most impactful We basically have to have a vote to undo that I I think yeah, I think that would work well All right, so we are still on the f y 24 general fund budget and capital plan um, so I have a motion to Utilize $200,000 in reserve funds For one time projects to further a language access plan and explore No, fewer than three sustainable funding sources for an equity director position I'll second Motion by brin second by aurora all those in favor. Please say aye All right Those opposed nay What was your motion brin to allocate $200,000 in reserve funds For one time project use to develop a language access plan And to provide no fewer than three sustainable funding source options For an equity director position Okay, I'm I really apologize. I shouldn't have carried out that vote yet I really want staff to weigh in on the feasibility of actually taking action on that Very sustainable funding sources. I can tell you one, which is property taxes and local housing taxes I don't I cannot think about third right this moment. I understand that's probably what the money's for but i'm afraid I won't be able to come up with third The um And there there is access to money now for a language access plan enough that I would Turn time reserve funds for for that purpose But so that you're aware in terms of making a home decision through the working community's challenge that was Yasemin had proposed to the Boston Fed that some of the I think they call them initiative grants we spent on that and they conceptually approved and just needed a plan So now we need to allocate time to create that plan so that we can propose it so again, just We're not gonna use if we want to be strategic with our use of reserve funds. Um, that would be one One one thing to consider Sort of like six and one half of the other Say the working community's challenge grant for other purposes or to save our reserve funds for other purposes I and what is your ability to even carry out this work? Like if we have this vote right now um I I am I am having some regret here because this is something that we could do at any point We don't have to do it right now. It's reserve funding And we should really give time for staff to give us A timeline feasibility of having the capacity to do that work before allocating this money Yeah, I it does feel more appropriate to have that direction as the strategic planning and part I can't remember the order of the three words strategic policy priorities priorities planning session that generally happens in may because Then you'd have the full context of what staff has to do And what priority this should have in that full list So this doesn't modify the fy 24 budget at all Right, it's just a reserve fund allocation decision. So is it even Are we amending did we do anything if we're discussing the fy 24 general budget and this doesn't change that Right, if to angela to your point earlier in angela's comment if you're not proposing that we are doing any offsetting in the fy 24 budget then It doesn't have to be now Can it be now? Like can we can we allocate? I feel like it should I just I mean, could we do any reserve allocation requests now? If we wanted to allocate a million dollars to sidewalks If that does feel like a warning item If you wanted to increase your fy 24 capital budget by a million dollars And note that it's one time only you could potentially do that I don't know that john who's here somewhere is going to be able to do a million dollars of sidewalk work next year, but But if I picked a non-capital example, then What if I said line striping? Yeah, I don't know Bryn, can you email me that language so we can bring this back with a warning? Yeah, thank you Apologies for the procedural we're figuring it out. Yeah You might want to take a withdrawal vote over that. I actually don't know how I've never done that before Um, can I have a motion to withdraw the past vote? So Second motion by Bryn second by Jim all those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Anyone opposed? Okay, motion carries. We will come back to this though. Yeah Is there any more discussion? Does anyone want to approve make a motion to approve the budget? And capital plan as presented I'll make a motion to approve the fy 24 budget and capital plan as proposed or as presented Do we have a second? Motion by Jim second by Thomas all those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion carries Okay, we are on to item c So this is the actual Town meeting warning Aurora, do you have thoughts about position agnostic language? Trying to think because my sense from Would we want to give a specific money amount? Um, would we want to give a specific area? I'm just trying to figure out like um, if not the equity director position and not A money amount just kind of well, let me ask what the purpose is like what is the outcome we would be Looking to from this vote um to Advice the city I think both on when thinking about reserve requests and in thinking about the fy 25 budget That kind of the priority of equity to Residents I'm thinking we could I guess I'm trying to figure out how specific we would want to get of allocate funds to Uh work on or explore concerns brought up in equity audit Advisory to prioritize racial equity or space or That's what I'm wondering if maybe like the equity audit might be Um Better um because it covers a broad range of items um I'm not sure if any or jim if you had any specific position agnostic language It's it's hard to think of it off the top of my head here in the meeting. Um I'm sorry not so thank him skew out, sorry could creating a An equity department to be staffed how the city manager sees appropriate Guide what we're what is being looked for but also leave it Help to staff to decide how to specifically use those funds To me creating a department is the is equivalent to creating a role a staff role specific staff role I mean it's similar about the line could decide that maybe it's a coordinator that's needed and funds that would go towards paying coaches or trainers to come in or Or it might be the equity director itself that takes up most of those funds I like to think of like to what end though right like what what is the equity There's like the thing that you can envision doing the thing but what is the thing that you want it to do And I think that's what we want to know from voters like as I said Or if there's a certain direction that we need to push this and an end that we want to see or a Process that we want to see happen like and I think that's where we sit at the policy level And like that could be a grant that could be a contract right it could be somebody doing contracted work It could be somebody on staff it could be a mix and I think the the implementation of that policy direction is Here's what what gets funded and and fleshed out by staff. I think the For this to like Be flexible and then hopefully generate change. I would like to see what the end or that the the processes that were after And that's that's where I would that's where like yeah the director or department or Saying like you need to contract out for a certain amount of stuff Like I'd like to see it be more like we want to see this be different next year We want to see this be different in five years. So we want to see progress made on x y or z So that's the kind of language I would be thinking about is more of what is what ends are we asking for the Some sort of monetary investment Yeah, I want to remind us all that staff is coordinating with the school on a public outreach plan for the equity audit findings Which I think is where we're going to get far more actionable feedback and priority from community members I'm challenged with how With any kind of advisory on the ballot that would provide us any new direction like We already know this is a priority of winewski We're not able to on the ballot share findings from the audit or actions we're already taking I'm for me I'm not saying how there's going to be beneficial information here beyond what we're going to be able to collect in a few months time From doing actual engagement sessions an idea, but it I don't know if it then feels contradictory But then again, some of this is already work we're doing But I was wondering if there's potential language around increasing equity of resident participation in the democratic process, but you know If people are having a hard time accessing the democratic process, they might not be able to vote on such an item So I'm debating that So it is for just thinking about councilor duckins question like to what to what end so Just teasing that thought out a little bit more So perhaps getting some direction through a ballot item That sustains That that helps sustain the position The community regard like regardless of council turnover Yeah, what does this mean? Can you say that again? I so essentially um So one thing that jim had mentioned that he wants to ensure that there's some sustainable decisions That that carry forward regardless of who the council makeup is so is one of the ends one of the goals to get a of basically a pulse from the community to say how How they want to elevate and strategically prioritize equity work regardless of what the council makeup is like and would that be useful to have as a like a true north or um, just a some direction that All council can come back to regardless of who's sitting in these seats. I think that would be nice if there was a Something that felt actionable and appropriate To the community. Yes. I mean that's that's what it would do the same with like the main street on vote in some ways. Yes, it is an authority to borrow but it's also like a blessing to proceed and I think um We kind of do commit ourselves for several years to walk that path It doesn't mean that the council has to but it definitely makes it harder to say no Like that would be the benefit of having this kind of principle Um, valid advisory vote. I'm just worried that can we actually do it in Suggestive five of us. Yeah in this time that we have um In a way this Genuine I'm yeah I'm looking at the equity audit and I don't want to jump the gun on the outrage and kind of Taking this from audit to action The one that we aren't making that we haven't Spent a lot of like strategic time thinking about is that last one on developing strategies to increase civic participation among BIPOC residents So it's the one that I think there are a number of things in the budget currently that seek to do that And we could ask if that's like the direction that we want our equity work to go But I also would be like we aren't asking whether we want housing equity to be furthered as well and that's It just seems like this is as I'm Walk talking my sit my way through it and kind of thinking about we said mayor of this kind of Structured engagement we're about to have that we could yield a really meaningful advisory vote to like solidify This is where we're gonna go clinical of five years of work from 2019 onward to get to like A statement about what we're going to do for equity work in the city seems like a Powerful end and I hate to to short circuit that With an article today, so that's I guess what I'm landing is like this seems like the strategies to increase civic participation Seems like the most granular thing that we can do, but it's not the only thing we're going to do It's hard to imagine coming up with something now that will respect the broader work that we I think are already committed to That's a super rambly way of saying I guess not Yeah, I guess I'm I'm getting a little stuck on right like this is the the I guess usefulness of having like a specific amount or a specific position um while I can recognize that there is um Discomfort um in the potential commitment, um I also can see that as almost a shorthand to ensure that we are doing Kind of what we're talking about more broadly like all these different items And I know that's kind of why I've been championing an equity director position Acknowledging that it's not a cure-all, but also acknowledging that it Provides that kind of expertise and gives that kind of It gives it. I mean it provides counsel with that kind of a valuable resource in a way that like we're discussing all of this and um, we've discussed this a lot and I mean I I sent some resources and stuff like that like these are all things that If we had an equity director position who was specifically looking at maybe kind of more Activity initiative director so looking at things internally Who could offer direction on stuff like this? So I think that's something too is like we're debating all this and some of it is like well We're debating it because we don't have the capacity to Ensure that we're doing exactly the right thing so Right coming back to like what about you know asking folks to vote on a position that helps build that capacity Or maybe there's language to put in that asks residents If they would like the city to increase equity capacity or capacity for equity work in The coming years something like that would that be Specific enough but also not specific I know like that the sweet spot. We're kind of trying to talk towards One of it would be I will we want to hire an equity director to do x y and z and then just take out that We want to hire an equity director to say we want to do x y and z Like I still haven't heard that like what is it? I'm looking at the equity director position now like acting as a liaison increasing understanding access to city government And for the practices like I mean what is the specific thing that we're not doing in the budget? Like I wonder if there's something more specific that we can get to this still not position or money tied but that's Like the output like the work that we want done I have potential language however if we need worse wordsmithing and It like you know, it's just an example so So advisory Shall the community authorize a city manager to allocate X amount of dollars in general fund local options tax Grant funds or other acquired funds To be allocated to program positions Contract work scholarships or program funding to enhance equity priorities and strategies They already have this authority And they only doing there is enhancing equity priorities and strategies Which are stuff that accounts like and what are those that we want to ask the voters to Ossify and harden like otherwise it's still just up like our priorities our sidewalks our priorities our Program access and sign ups like I just like the what's the what there? I feel like we would be much better positioned to have this conversation in the future after Community engagement around the equity audit findings I tend to agree Like this is certainly something we could come back to and consider for a future ballot, right after we have more of that work done I I feel like it's pretty much premature to put something on there now for folks to vote on I I tend to agree. I just And this is hypothesizing but From the regular folks that show up to those types of events or the folks that are showing up Now and telling us that they want us to hire an equity director so I have a I have a Hard time with thinking that we're going to do all of that work Which we should do anyway, but like we're going to get to it. They're going to say hire an equity director And then we're going to go this whole year without hiring an equity director and wait until we budget it next year That might be a slightly pessimistic view of looking at participation, but I think We see the same faces. They're literally reaching out to all of us via email and What now so I feel like we already know what they want It's just what do we fund that just straight up and I mean we already voted on the budget, but Like do we just increase the taxes to fund it now or do we ask them? I think this is what you want you I think we're on a path to get more information like We've started engagement with community groups that we haven't been before We have the ability to do more of that And to invite more people to whatever this Structure is for the audit outreach I don't necessarily think we're going to get the same responses. So the same the same people showing up Especially if we're like strategic about How we organize that and who we reach out to I also want to think about like as a voter when I see this, what do I think I'm getting for this vote? And I think it's difficult to say Do you want to prioritize x area? without the wraparound information of what else What else like why don't I get to vote on prioritizing? Yeah, or child care access or something like I I still don't know what we're going to get or what voters are going to get out of an article Well, are you suggesting we cut those things? That's where I feel like those examples are disingenuous where We're talking about a position that is being cut or put on hold So that's where I feel like again having some specific Information from the voters that yes, they want to see this position back in FY 25 Or do that work? And I think I think it's hard counselor Duncan as you bring up. Are there specific items? One it would be great to have an expert who's able to advise us on those items or to Give the funds to engage community and we're going to do that in part On what our priority items But I also think as has come up and I don't want to like go through like building a job description right now but I think we Know that the the equity director position as it was originally was not sustainable and what did it it was In fact harmful the amount of work So again, my concern is like we're cutting or kind of moving this work aside pushing it forward Whatever you Kind of want to envision in the future Wow You know not it like What does that equity position look like? Well, we're not going to have those conversations if we don't think we're going to have an equity director position So that's one of the things I'm coming around to you as well of like By not allocating these funds these resources It feels like we are Again, deprioritizing it. So we're not going to have the conversations on the ways We could make that a more sustainable position or investigate a way to have a different position or to have other support So that's what I come back to where it feels like again, we're deep prioritizing So we're stopping conversations from happening before they do and again, you can argue with me on Whether you agree But I do think If We're not trying to figure out these issues in a very specific way again Thinking about a very specific position No, we're not prioritizing it. We're not going to think about well, what are ways we can do equity better I know that is a long winded Thing to say but that that is why I keep coming back to specifically putting forward an equity director position because it's an actionable item that we could take the time to You know, take that time to improve and if we had it as an advisory item Then as we have these community conversations with the school We might know then how best to if we have that maybe even ask Should the city have an equity position or equity specific position? Maybe that's better if we don't specifically want an equity director But do me but recognize the value of having Someone with that type of expertise and just the capacity So the the capacity isn't like one thing I see is I think A lot of this work may still get done, but it'll get done unpaid and that is Exhausting and that is unequitable in its own way and leads to burnout. So that that's another that's another thing That comes back to me as well Maybe what I will do is Move to add an advisory valid item to ask residents if they would like to see the city have an equity specific position in the future Or take out in the future could you could you word it as an article? So shall like shall the voters of the city of when you ski Direct The city where shall do the I yeah, just like what's the language so that it can be exact What'll end up on the city's to be exactly what's going to be on the warning And I don't we want to call a recess so you can write it But I wouldn't want to vote on a concept that needs to get written Do you have language error Do you want five minutes and try Hi Well, let's call a recess at 712 We'll reconvene at 717 This is at least how I started Justin abides based off of the feedback Dure support come on up Certainly Any city treasurer I'm here to present some key takeaways from the second quarter of the FY 23 financial reports Um, so in q2 we continue to see when you skis financial positions ramping as community activity returns back to pre pandemic levels, which is good The city general fund current projects a surplus of about 400,000 The bulk of the increased forecast surplus Is due to cost savings from staff vacancies across multiple departments So very similar to q1 We are also forecasting surplus in the following enterprise and some special revenue funds Again the same as last quarter Which are the combined parking garage fund the tiff fund and the community and economic development fund Again similar to q1 We are forecasting deficits in the following the water fund wastewater fund Community services fund and the rental registry fund One thing I will add though for the water fund and wastewater fund We may see these deficits Turn to surpluses By the end of the year the way that we're tracking So specific details to support current forecasts can be found within the respective financial report on the city when you ski's website Please bear in mind that this is a q2 report Which is through december 31st and that projections are our best guests guided by the financial activities We realize so far and therefore are subject to change as we progress through the year Are there any questions? Go ahead Could you tell us a little bit more why you think those water deficits might turn into surpluses? Yeah, sure. So The big the big reason there um For those two funds are Due to the 36 malts bay and through devive main Uh building projects that we've been doing there and kind of chat about this in q1 as well So the way that we we've been forecasting for the revenue for those two funds has been based on activity But uh due to the the project going on at those locations. We haven't been um Full so uh Starting in q2 um, I believe both locations were fully occupied um So that going forward we can forecast Better knowing what the actual consumption will be or the revenue will be when out there fully occupied So we're thinking in q3 q4. We'll have a better idea but to give you some context there um For example the wastewater fund. We were projecting a deficit of about 110,000 in q1 and now the projected deficit 60 which is the difference of 50 And that's all from ramping up Occupants in q2 great Thank you And similar question. What is the estimated deficit for the rental registry? Uh as of now, um, it's 29,000 and compared to q1. It's actually 15,000 dollars In the green better So we started uh billing for some of those properties, but we're anticipating to be Billing fully in um f y 24 Okay, I didn't see an end of your projection for parking. There's there was like a 10k surplus right now Did I just miss it on the full report? Or did I skip it when I was just In the report I hope it's there Maybe I just missed it I think it's there Under enterprise funds But just uh for parking the combined parking garage fund. It's about the same as q1, um To surplus about 10,000 dollars. Yeah, are you expecting that to to maintain though? through end of year or um Just remember that the garage any additional surplus that is created there will automatically get transformed to the tips So okay Yeah, it nets it nets your own exactly Okay, thank you for that minor Is that clear of your question? Yeah, it does. Okay Any other questions? No questions from members of the public Oh, we have some attendees now Uh, you can use the raise hand feature if you have any questions or comments for the treasure report Okay Let's move on to item f then Thank you. Thank you Okay, proposed changes to sidewalk use Good evening. Thank you very much I'm here to have continued discussion on the proposed changes to the the sidewalk use Sidewalk use information specifically chapter five of the municipal code. We had some Preliminary discussion on this at your last meeting on the 17th. So tonight We're here to talk in more detail if you if you're ready to do that and also potentially set a public hearing Possible date would be on February 21st I have some additional information to to provide based on the comments and questions from The from the last meeting as well as some additional information to share with you all tonight. So I can do that as well either during the At the beginning here or we can we can I can go through my new stuff and then we can follow up on on last month or last week's Meet let's do that. Okay. Great. So the one thing I wanted to do as a counselor renter alluded to earlier I was at the downtown board associations meeting Last wednesday and provided this information to them and at that meeting I provided them a Really quick presentation of what this might look like as far as the sidewalk use is concerned So I wanted to share that with you tonight as well So this is a a brief slide with some some animations that I have prepared To hopefully give a better sense of what this might look like I think it's really important to point out that this is a very generic Overview and is is not really specific to any one area But hopefully we'll give a a better sense of what we're talking about here So right now as we as we look at our sidewalks. We have our curb line We have the granite belt. We have in some instances a step up another granite step and then the brick pavers At the building facade So overall we're looking at about 13 feet of depth and this is this is a general number because in some cases There's not the step In other cases the building facade bumps out a little further. So Generally speaking The the overall profile from curb face to building facade is about 13 feet I should also mention in some cases. There's two steps. So in front of the wanuski block, there's there's two steps down In those areas So but generally the curbs are about about six inches wide six to eight inches They're granite curbs. So they're not a uniform dimension. There's a five foot granite paver belt Where we have our trees and other street amenities Then in some instances a step up or not and then again the seven foot of of brick pavers For the pedestrian walkway So right now most of the buildings or most of the businesses are only utilizing the area on the on the granite pavers Even when there's a step there or even absence of a step They're still generally confining their their outdoor space to that to that that granite belt What we're proposing with this With these changes would have them shift that space Two feet from the face of the curb So basically a foot and a half in from from the backside of that curb from where they are In some instances if there is the step, they'll have to accommodate that in one form or another I had one business owner reach out to me as we were talking about this and basically said He wouldn't have any issues with accommodating the space because he would just take the legs off the Office picnic tables and just shorten them a bit so he could shift them over accommodate that step No issue with that we do allow for though in the in the draft for the Inclusion of structures if if a business chooses to build something in there to take out the step to flatten that area out They they do have that ability they may need to get permitting for that just because of the structural nature of it But there that is an option that is offered So shifting that that usable space that they're currently dealing with now the two feet off of the curb face So then what that does is it leaves our five foot of clear pedestrian pathway against the building facade Again varying depending on what the facades actually look like and then that creates kind of this one foot space That is new space in essence It's not going to be a foot for everybody necessarily in some cases. It may be a little more maybe a little less But by shifting by shifting the area that we're using In closer to the building setting Creating that offset from the curb face In some instances businesses may actually end up getting more usable space For for for their outdoor seating or their outdoor use in general depending on what what the business is is doing Um, so Just wanted to share this with you quick the the reactions and the feedback I got from the the downtown board meeting were pretty positive So, um, they thought that this was a very good graphic to to represent what's what's being proposed So I wanted to share it with you all tonight as well Any questions on that? No, I appreciate the graphic. Yeah, and again, this is this is very I don't want to say this is representative because it's not not everywhere has a step not everywhere has all these widths It's just but I think it gives a general idea of what What the businesses may be faced with as as we as we advance forward with some of these Requirements, so I'm going to stop my share here So with that Moving forward in the at our last meeting we did talk about some of the The liability component We did have some some correspondences with our loss prevention specialist. Is that Loss prevention agent from the romant league of cities and towns Some email correspondences and also a site visit specifically To talk about some of these these items and in the cover sheet on the In the agenda packet, there's some some quoted language basically talking about the fact that We should the the quoted language is in reference to the the overhang and and doing something to accommodate that because of the angled parking And using some form of standard That that we can point to there was a memo included in the agenda packet as well from john rousher that provided some additional information on On the overhangs and on the the specific details of of that based on Where we're getting those references. So so that information is provided we also Following up on the site visit related to the liability component We did receive an email back from From vlct basically saying and i'll i'll just i'll read a few lines from the specific from the email specifically Basically they're saying that It's all about exposure to the city There are concerns with with allowing close placement of patron patron tables to vehicle travel paths That do create a potential risk for the city if there is an incident It's probable that the business owner and the city would be named in a suit Because of this potential i suggest the city consider adding the following elements the first one being That businesses name the city as an additional insured with respect to the sidewalk usage Which we do include in this draft and i think more specifically to your question counselor oak leaf about the amount of liability They had recommended a minimum of five million per occurrence of general liability That could be provided by a combination of primary coverage or umbrella or excess insurance limit They also note however that that could be expensive And so as a fallback but not an ideal position the city could accept two million per occurrence And in the aggregate in the aggregate limit though allow Though this would be the bare minimum. So the two million what we're we're suggesting is also the bare minimum that our Folks at vlct would recommend going forward For for some level of protection Um, I believe let's see Let me look. Oh, there was another question about travel the the the The drive aisle width for emergency services and general standard for emergency Fire lanes for exit as an example is is 20 feet So right now that that travel lane is is it about just over 12 feet for us? and We wouldn't want to go any less than that because with with our new fire truck in particular and any existing equipment They will have the outriggers that need placement. So Anything less than than generally 15 feet is is not ideal, but 12 feet is is doable So we wouldn't want to I don't believe we'd want to go below that number for from an emergency services standpoint Um, let's see. Oh, there was another question about creating maps for each space we did talk about that as staff and from a We for one we don't have all the survey data to be able to create create the detailed that detailed level of of information and from a Resource standpoint it may actually make more sense to work with the businesses directly Based on what they actually might want if they're looking to get additional space from an adjacent business Which is also laid out in in the regulations and really just work with them one on one to to lay out the space That way we can go on site and identify Any facilities that the city might own or might have as far as signage waste receptacles bicycle racks that that may be may need to be accommodated as well. So That's probably the preferred option for us is to have that one-on-one interaction with the businesses rather than trying to Draw up some sort of a diagram that they have to follow directly Otherwise, I don't think I had anything specific for follow-up other than As I note in the in the cover sheet on the agenda because this is an ordinance Amendment our charter does require that be introduced by a member of council as we go forward to set a public hearing. So With that I will We do have a business owner on So I can invite public comment unless there's any questions from council first Okay Attendees, please use the chat or raise hand feature if you wish to speak Laura wait, I'm wondering if you have thoughts to share Oh and Meredith is on oh great You're on mute still though You were like Paul moved you over already so we got out of order For every board member of course But I am here specifically to speak On behalf of a few different business owners that have sent me comments and questions They are unable to be here for various reasons. So the first is a I'm going to go to the comments first Because there's not specific questions and then I will go into the question The first comment is That won't affect us That's a bummer for everyone thought it could be cool to be moved in it where some of the parking spaces are You see that all over the place in other cities. So, of course, um, that was a comment in close and then uh, my commentary is that this is something that we um, as The downtown when you see it has to be have had conversations about in the past um in my mind and certainly it's up to the council um and Could he stop to decide that to me this is a completely separate issue um usage of um parking spaces for feeding and for other things. I don't think it's really part of this particular question and municipal coaching But just something to consider that is always awesome for mine. Um, and while I don't have a specific person Um and a specific quote to share tonight. This is something that is anecdotally shared with me All the time, um, that people would love to see parking spaces utilized for outdoor dining or other uses And then on the Opposite side, I also received a lot of commentary that we should never use parking for anything other than parking So there's that um and then the other comment that I have is Two feet seems like a ridiculously large overhang the eight inches should be enough to accommodate cars and trucks If the city wants to do this, they should put out barriers and chains if they feel they're safety concerns And I know that there was a discussion about certain barriers being put in place As part of the form as part of the previous discussion. So, um, I just want to sugar that as well Um, anything else? Can I just move on? Yeah. Yeah the what first question is, um I wonder if there is a way to switch to different parking such as parallel parking from May 1st to September 30th And then go back to the angled parking in the winter So has there been a discussion about changing the orientation of parking? In my understanding, there has been a conversation, but I'd love to hear from staff about what changing the orientation of parking from the angled parking that currently exists around certain parts of the rotary to like a parallel parking or a different degree of angle, what would that Has that been discussed and has that been dismissed as a as a possibility? I'll be happy to answer now sure and I'll look to John as well on the zoom So we did look at that We did look at changing the angle of the parking and we did I believe we even looked at that parallel parking along At least in the downtown area around the rotary The the challenge is that because of the built structure that's there as well the curb line that exists and the existing sidewalks The angled parking that's there now it was all designed for the current angle So there would be a significant loss of parking. I would say if we changed up the angles And I think it just creates other challenges with with trying to get in and out of those spaces So john, I'll I'll let you add anything you want to as well space we looked at the Parallel parking, but I mean cars are you know 20 Usually those parking spaces are like 20 foot wide So now you're looking at maybe getting two cars three cars maximum in those spaces I currently have About 10 I think So that seems pretty feasible. And then just the idea of like seasoning switching over I mean as you know, we have a hard time enough just doing lines for a bank for Just regular roads and the idea of having to like convert from one type of Parking scenario to another would be would be pretty challenging operationally too Thanks Meredith you have additional questions You're on mute again if you're talking Yeah, I'm struggling. I'm I've got it. I'm on all of you now I'm looking at my notes. Um, thank you so much just after answering this question um, the other question that I received is um, What and I believe this is got briefly in all of in the previous meeting But you know, I should call you out again, uh, john, but what does the question received was What does the two-foot overhanging achieve not against it just confused about that specific distance? Why wouldn't something smaller or larger work better? Yeah, I can answer that so in the memo I I have some Um dimensions that are shown in there. So those dimensions come from the national parking association Um, and that's typically what we utilize that's kind of made reference for any sort of municipal on-street parking So for a 45 degree angle parking that we have in the downtown the design overhang dimension is one foot nine inches. So that would be the actual minimum um, it's really hard to uh, sort of manage Or force one foot nine inches. So I think that's what we sort of landed on All right, let's just call it to you just to make it easy for everyone else But that's where that that number comes from And I'll just add a bit to that as well. So I did some after the last meeting I did some research on on vehicles and the amount of overhang they have so Looking at four different vehicles that are fairly common around around this area Measuring from basically the center of the wheel. So including the rim Half of the rim half of the tire and then any other overhang Looking at a a four to f-150. It has a 3.15 foot Overhang distance a Toyota RAV4 has 2.98 foot overhang Chevy Silverado's 3.08 foot overhang and a Subaru Outback has a 3.28 foot overhang So they've all got a fairly good distance in there again measuring from the center of the of the wheel So that's going to be variable what the actual Overhang distance is in front of that that tire may be based on the the size of the rim, etc But just to give you a sense of what we're actually talking about as far as what vehicle overhang looks like My husband parked our suburban up there and it was a 20 inch It was 20 inches over the curve. So I was skeptical of your two feet. That's so now And so so sorry They want to have they're trying to get five feet But maybe it's a little bit less Five foot area So I think and again, I'll I'll look to John here as well, but I think what I would say is in Given the location in a downtown environment five feet is the is the least amount of space we would be comfortable with ADA I believe allows us as low as three feet for for clearance, but Given that generally when we pour a sidewalk somewhere, it's a five foot wide sidewalk This the the least amount of distance we would want to do is is five feet given Again, given it's a downtown area. We would we would prefer more quite frankly I think but we also want to be mindful of the businesses and trying to accommodate Uh, the outdoor space that they that they do rely on for for for their businesses in the warmer months So I think five feet would be probably the bare minimum we'd be comfortable going with so if you look at some of the Pre-trans documentation that's out there For the downtown area seven to eight feet is this sort of recommended clear pathway. It's not a regular tour requirement It's just you know, that's a more comfortable urban setting, but 36 inches is the minimum needed five foot is sort of the compromise to accommodate having cafe seating Public use and cars. There's a lot going on with with these corridors and that's trying to balance those spaces So that is sort of what a compromise to do this is, you know, five foot is Would be a recommended minimum Thanks so much. I appreciate everyone's time. That was all of the questions or comments that I had selected for this meeting. Um, I don't know if there's other public Comments right now, but we You know at downtown we obviously have the the these vitality economic vitality in the small businesses that hard But we understand that there is sort of a rock and hard play situation here with the safety and the liability now that we know I know this information. Um, and so we definitely would encourage the council to move forward with a Um, you know any question or discussion and then any approvals or any actions that need to be taken and we certainly appreciate the fact that this does require that public meeting because it is a municipal code change And we would certainly do our part to help promote that Within any interested parties if there are additional public comments that would come through at that time That's definitely. Thank you guys. Thanks Meredith One other thing I would just add Meredith made the comment about the use of parking spaces for seating. That is something we did look at in in the evaluation of this it was it was We did move on from that again because there were comments and concerns about the loss of the parking But I would say if that is something we wanted to revisit in the future The changes that are proposed in in this ordinance update would not impact removing the parking To use for seating or to do something else related in that regard Thank you Is there any additional public comment? Any more questions from council? I have a question Meredith I It's actually a question for you. Did you receive any? business comment about the Section which is going to be proposed as 5.11 permit application as it relates to Be 5.11 b In addition to specific requirements, no structures canopies tents, umbrellas, banner signs, light strings Hindresses or similar elements shall be erected or placed in whole or in part in a manner that would be Located above or below designated pedestrian travel route I haven't gone down and done An assessment or evaluation to know what the status of things are now I know that just reading through some previous comments There was some concern about losing the vibrancy and just kind of wondering to what extent That particular item would impact current conditions for businesses It's my understanding that that specific section that you're talking about It's already kind of It's here too. So essentially what that means is that if somebody Has number 11 lower and someone just walk into it with their head that would be not allowed So that is something that is now being written As far as I understand that is already being adhered to and that was just finally being put into writing So I have not heard any pushback on that specific item now Okay, great. Thank you Would uh, someone like to make a motion to Set a public hearing for february 21st 2023 Wait to formally introduce. Yeah, sorry. Thank you. Oh, yeah I don't have the language for that and it could be that you just introduce the the proposed amendments for a public hearing to be held Whenever you're you're comfortable holding that Would someone like to introduce the proposed sidewalk What are they called? proposed changes to sidewalk use amendments at a public hearing to be held february 21st so most Second motion by thomas second by jim all those in favor. Please say aye. Aye motion carries Thank you very much. Thank you Can we get bob back on? Yes, he can actually call in if you would like that. Yes, please And we're going to go back to item c which was the warning language for town meeting day All right. We're just waiting for our city attorney to join Bob, can you hear us? excellent Did you already share the What we were discussing a link? I did. Yes, bob. You said you had uh some some advice So, uh council a counselor is looking to propose something for the ballot that would be an advisory item that would that Abloh language Have an equity for the city to have an equity specific position in the future But let me just provide a little bit of context of advice and questions So the cemetery of state questions Mr. Powell's to consider carefully What kind of advice and questions they're putting on about Um, and their advice is that it best if those um Any petitions relate to matters over which voters have control So in this situation, um The Provides for a number of identified positions Like city manager in the title to fill If the position that the city manager can fill or cannot fill I don't know. There's my question. But uh an equity position is not specifically on the client given the trouble And it is even finished. That is a city manager responsibility It's not a war or council responsibility So the voters in this case are three two or three steps removed from The question of whether an equity position should be appointed Even with an affirmative vote The city manager Is not obligated to follow that team More into the council And the control of the council that is really a higher than a higher city manager Because of the council authority to Under the checker. My concern about this kind of question is that the council needs to consider very carefully What might be the impact of the ballot? And what control it has over the outcome of that voting? And The secretary of state Suggests that A council or select board Doing this may mind itself and the mission not being able to Thatify The outcome of the advisory opinion and just creating sort of mad voters rather than actually accomplishing what And what they want to accomplish So those are those are sort of political questions that I want you to think about how much you're going to give a stimulus to what you should or shouldn't do But you should think that through before The majority of the meetings and conversations If you want to do that The wording needs to be very direct The secretary of state recommends that these Petitions be stated in yes and no questions And I think in this situation the question would be Should the city A create and sell an equity condition with however you want to find that More precisely So that's how it should be structured if you want to give up Thank you, bob Or did you have a new language you wanted to have us consider? Put something down but trying to make sure that it would match What legally suggest? I I feel like the simple is best so I almost would lean towards Doing exactly what was just presented. I guess my only question would be Do we put should Would Would rather okay No, I don't think I have um more specific language that would alter Um, what was presented? I mean hearing Bob's update from secretary of state further confirms my concern that we're putting something on a ballot That misleads voters about their authority like Then they could vote on this it might not happen and it leaves an implication that they can direct Or that voters have a closer control over what positions we have at the city anyhow I should share those concerns I will put forward the motion And I go from there so I move that The city should Add an advisory item on the ballot that asks Voters should the city create And fill an equity position Some motion on the table Motion by aurora second by thomas all those in favor. Please say aye. Aye Those opposed nay Motion fails That was that that was upset did you abstain sorry? I thought I heard you thomas. No, that's okay Would someone like to make a motion to approve the Town meeting warning as presented Summit It's a motion on the table is there a second Oh second Motion by jim second by thomas all those in favor. Please say aye. Aye. All right motion carries Thank you Um Aurora made a motion that thomas seconded. I'm sorry. What was the outcome of the second vote the second vote? It carried for one didn't everyone say I I'm sorry those opposed Nay, okay, three one Yeah, okay We are on item g now On for discussion approval when you speak please put in k9 program Welcome chief Good evening everybody So a little table setting for tonight's agenda item uh for Folks at home that may not have watched the budget presentation What I'm proposing uh in this current FY 24 budget Is the addition of a k9 program utilizing Drug asset forfeiture funds that we've accumulated over eight years of having a detective assigned to that unit an updated Accounting of that actual account. There's actually 125 thousand dollars not 90 in there that is available right now There's also 39 pending asset forfeiture Sharing decisions that we're waiting to hear about um several hundred thousands of dollars But I don't know what our percentage of that will be so it could range Anywhere from a few hundred depending on what we um did on that particular case up to multiple thousands if we had a lead detective So it's very much a moving target. I think a conservative estimate would be that By the time all of those uh forfeiture funds Work their way through the system that we could probably see as much money as what is in there now So it would be double what we have I'm not asking for any additional tax Increases or revenue to stay on this program up I'm very confident. Um use utilizing An existing low mileage newer vehicle That we'll be able to add one vehicle to the fleet without actually having to Go outside of our annual capital purchase of one new cruiser a year What I estimate is approximately 22 000 to stand up the program give or take a few thousand depending on There's a fluctuation in the price of the dog Obviously equipment and the availability of that to outfit the cruiser Is constantly in flux with global supply issues, but I don't think it'll be a huge fluctuation in what that estimate is So I was just looking for approval through this process to start Um this process of outfitting a cruiser identifying a dog Allowing our handler to start the bond with that dog and then attending The patrol section certification for that canine starting in mid-June of 23 All right, thanks for coming back with that Your questions from council I have a procedural question If the money is already in the chief's budget Why doesn't it need to come to us for this budgetary season? Well part of it I think is a new program that you haven't authorized before It's more transparency I just wouldn't want to start something new and not have you all involved in that conversation. I don't think that would be A good business practice. It's not how I've led the department I want you to all to understand be transparent and understand The direction of the department and any new programs that we start And I think given the questions that We feel the last time it was That made it appropriate. Yeah, no, that's fair. I was just There's a dollar amount obviously, but it's in your budget already. So I just wanted to I was just curious as to why Yeah Perfect. Um, yeah, I mean this was part of our policy priorities Back from may so I I don't know how many further questions. Thank you Um, I am curious what the asset forfeiture funds can be used for I'm not I don't have I understand the enterprise funds. I don't I don't think I've been filled in or Don't remember being filled in on the asset forfeiture funds. Sure. The the major uses are equipment training and programs That you are programming And is it specific to law enforcement and drug enforcement anything? Yes Drug related also Law enforcement purposes only yeah So I was doing a little bit of research on this and Discovered that there are actually quite a few communities in chitin county that have canine units. Yes I think we're the only one that doesn't I guess I was under the impression that we wanted a canine unit because we would be unique And not that we were unique because we didn't have one So the way I would describe this best is that You know police departments are on duty 24 hours a day seven days a week, which is 168 hours a week If you have a canine officer, they obviously work 40 hours a week and then based on Each individual's departments Needs and wants for when they want that canine available training vacations sick days You can't have enough dogs. We've there's several times we've called for canines on major incidents where there just didn't happen to be one on duty So we're just adding to that That overall resource for the county um and there's Also thinking about what's the You know police officers you have a retirement Time frame. What's a retirement time frame for a canine unit? So i'll tell you that's a moving target depending on the dog the size of the dog What its career looks like but generally The accepted practice for that investment is 8 to 12 years And remind me what the breed of the dog you are searching for I believe it's malinois No idea how to spell that Can you say it again? Malinois believe is the spelling malinois malinois. Okay It's a smaller, um, I think sub Family of the german shepherd, but a smaller more agile dog Technically a belgian malinois that's spelled malinois M-a-l-i-n-o-i-s Yeah, oh, yeah um and I I'm also in doing some additional research Notice that wilson has a A comfort canine program they do. Um, is that something that you've considered? Actually, yes, and I plan on coming back to you. I didn't want to Come at you with too many new things all at once, but it is being discussed where We have an officer who is actually interested in that the cost is very minimal because you don't have to outfit a cruiser It's just a handler taking care of the dog and bringing it back and forth to work I am very interested in that because I believe We could We could serve two purposes, right? Like the police canine patrol canine Serves a purpose, but we could also do a lot of outreach and I think there's a need and a purpose for a comfort dog here that would be a good fit to have both But I didn't you know We are just barely scratching the surface with this enough touch base with wilson On what's involved and what their experience has meant has been very a very positive experience So I think it's something i'll be bringing to you with the perspective handle or soon And I would love to hear a little bit more about the policies For the training so I've seen nationally there's some transition away from bite and hold to Bark and freeze or something like that. I don't have the terminology correct, but Um, what's vermont's training policy? So I don't want to speak out of turn. Um, I am not a canine expert. I I my belief is is that um They they have transitioned to that as well that it is not just a release and bite program anymore and hasn't been for some time And do we have any sense of what uh, if there are any Lawsuits against vermont municipalities for canine Units i'm not aware of any of that have been publicized um, I have to say that the uh companion canine Comfort canine program sounds more attractive to me personally um Just from again Really high-level research on canine units and history of canine units um so it's kind of Through where my where my feelings are with that at the moment Yeah, I I completely understand and and counselor oak leaf. I I appreciate that context. Um Here's here's my take on A lot of things almost everything in policing You have two trains of thought on right like fair and impartial policing Use of force qualified immunity Um, the list goes on and on and on where there's two very different trains of thought I respect both sides and try and figure out what's best for our community Um, as far as the patrol canine My thought process for that is it's a tool for Our patrol division to both feel the officer is an officer safety Program that will help them feel safe It will add to our capacity Without having to add an additional human police officer. I think there's an understated value for search and rescue That isn't talked about enough with a canine if a child or Somebody with diminished mental capacity was to wander off. Um, that could be utilized for that cadaver recovery. There's there's a lot of Different Certifications that a canine can get that it's not just what people see on tv, right as a patrol dog that Is jumping out of a patrol car all the time and and there is a community outreach piece to that I think the comfort dog would be more suited to that and be more I would be more comfortable if it's going to be in a loud noisy setting With multiple people coming and wanting to touch and pet the dog that I think a comfort dog is more suited for that and You know my thought process for the canine is that this is a tool for patrol to help keep our officers safe to support that and to give them buy-in and investment in the department that they're getting a specialized assignment without taking from the patrol Schedule right now. I'm good. Okay. Can I ask um, wait It's kind of presented in the memo on what you talked about last time was that it Really the stuff the idea was for it to be tracking and clearing buildings would this dog ever be used in like a confrontation or Are you strictly Feel more comfortable if it was just strictly for thinking about tracking and clearing buildings I think that's something that we need to to weigh Um The investment and and what the purpose of the dog is as a patrol. Um, I think It would be short-sighted to not have it be available in a situation where we needed a dog to to enter a building and do that So I guess the short answer is yes, it would be trained in that. Um, you know with the understanding that It's not just um, a bite dog and you know, there's there's limited circumstances for that, which is Uh, one thing I wanted to mention Um, is that the Vermont criminal justice council has a subcommittee specific to the canines the canine programs And they're in charge of oversight best practices I can send you that link if you're interested in learning more about it. They make quarterly they track Both training and infield uses for those dogs and go over that regularly to make sure that The best outcomes are happening So I would rely on the experts that are actually doing that training doing that business To talk about the pros and cons Of the questions that you've brought up um, I Just kind of add on to what thomas said. I've no further concerns on this. Um, I think you explained the uh The benefit to our officers and we can't engage them in kind of Leaving work training. This is a real opportunity to provide something to the officers and we can't Support them in other ways. I'm monetarily right now. So Um, given that this is something we've already approved once I am supportive of continuing that approval. Thank you I hope you all know. I'm sorry. No, go ahead. I was just gonna say I hope you all know that You know, we built a relationship over the years And I take very seriously Police services and how we deliver those services in the city and that will continue after me My officers also take that very seriously. Nobody wants to come into work and be involved in a use of force situation that You know, optically doesn't look great to the public. That's not what we're trying to do here We're trying to build capacity. Um We're also trying to retain young employees that Are surrounded by Um, quite frankly communities all around us who that are hiring and interested in fully trained officers So this is about officer safety officer retention You know and creating an environment that they feel some buy-in to the police department where they want to make You know an eight or 12 year career out of that and a canine can do that for somebody Thanks. I was just going to invite public comment. There's any questions or comments about this topic So I have a procedural question. Um, so I know that this is on for discussion approval. Uh, I don't know if it's Generic enough as Winooski police department canine program to um amend it to add a comfort canine authorization as well If we want to like preauthorize that, yeah, that would be wonderful Someone could make a motion to that effect I second Is it okay if we come back to you at some point and do a project? I think we should I think we should because I also wonder because this doesn't warn the comfort canine. So I think it should come back We'd be happy to do that Okay, so we have a motion by brennan and second by jim. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Okay, motion carries. Thank you very much. Thank you We are on to h the strategic very strategic vision area goal update for safe healthy connective people Come up to john you and I think I don't know if john is still on there as well john adi but For usual, you know, hopefully these updates are pretty straightforward. Um, definitely excited to see More green than last time on here, which was good. I think a few things that have been lagging a little bit seem to get a jump start But I'm happy to answer any questions that folks have on these the update Is that questions? No surprises Paul, if you want to drop that link to the chat for the public to For the public's use of reference I I guess just elaborating and revisiting conversation from previous weeks about the o'brien center and Sure kind of how can we continue to optimize that space while negotiations are ongoing? Sure, and I think you know council has allocated some, you know indicated some intention to continue to optimize that in the f y 24 budget, but Obviously, you know, there's there's still Six five six months left of this year as well. Yeah, and I only I Throw tomatoes or whatever if I get off track, but I think, you know, definitely want to say while that was an item listed in green multiple government agencies trying to talk about a transition of property is Slow and so it's moving but just at the pace of government as we like to joke So I do think there's, you know, good faith good work happening there In the interim, you know, again, my department is really looking at how to re allocate time and resources, especially during the non-summer months towards weekends and evenings And so I have a couple staff members pretty much every week that are shifting and making themselves available to make that space Open to the public We're definitely committed to doing that. I certainly think as we get closer to summer And and our busy season really picks up that does become a little bit more challenging for us conveniently though Folks desire to be inside Dwindles a bit too. So I think we will see a bit of a leveling there But again, we're we're committed to continuing to try to make that available where we can I think we're still not at a point capacity wise where we're ready to sort of fully Advertise and promote and really, you know go full bore there But we're certainly answering the phone when folks are calling And I guess in that same vein, is there any contingency planning on the city's effort? If the negotiations take longer than expected Yeah, I think Angela's but or The budget that Angela Had designed in to the recommendation Is like status quo like what we have going on now So that is basically the contingency plan the continuous Some of the deferred maintenance will might have to come back on that we aren't planning on so Unfortunately, that's a reserved conversation Okay I would say too though just to add to that I think if we find ourselves in a position where the transfer that building is not going to move forward We have a bunch of empty space then that we would move to sort of activate in a different way and Probably look to bring in tenants on as my my guess I don't think we're going to want to sit on that as empty space In perpetuity. I think we've been holding it knowing There may be changes afoot, but um, I think that's another piece that would be Would help impact the budget in a positive way Right, and I guess I'm just wondering Is there a capacity for us to How long can we wait? How long should we wait? Well, I'd say that the the way the conversations are going I do feel like this is the best option. So as long as they seem viable That's how long I think we should wait and in terms of budgeting. I mean, yes at some point the deferred maintenance will Be threatening. So I don't have a like a month in that. I don't know that John does either I guess I don't want to get three years down the road and be like, well, we should have had a plan Or we should have had a point in time where if this If this particular mile marker isn't met by this timeline Do we start to talk about pivoting? Yeah, that's fair and I do this would be another thing for the may strategy for any session that That feels like plenty of time from where the conversation is now to be like, okay, let's be real now Okay Anyone else have questions? Was there any public comment now that paul has shared the file for a minute? Okay, let's move to item. I thank you guys. Thanks Um, this is not for discussion approval the info sheet for the voter back charter change So I have councils january 3rd 2023 meeting council directed staff to prepare an information sheet a consistent messaging regarding a voter initiated charter change proposal To empower the proposal set is to empower council to adopt a just cause eviction ordinance That by statute must be presented to voters on the next town meeting day about the ballot meaning the charter change needs to be presented to voters Council also requested input from the inclusion and belonging commission and the housing commission The feedback from the inclusion and belonging commission was incorporated in the attachment The housing commission consensus and I imagine Councilor Duncan will have more to say about this but in short was that the second page Could be seen as negative Rather than neutral and that it should not be included so uh One ask of council tonight is whether you want changes made to the information sheet and then If so then endorse those changes or endorse it the way it is The other ask is to discuss whether and what education efforts you want staff to spend time and money on Including what audiences and how and again for the poet's reminder I'm asking for this position for staff i'm sorry for this direction for staff in public of council so that that um Staff activity on this ballot item is transparent And hopefully reduces the likelihood that the degree of staff's effort or lack of staff effort is perceived As not being neutral when the intent is to be neutral for staff to be neutral Thank you Well, let's focus first on content Do you want to add Any housing commission context sure I can provide a little the consensus is as Elaine said The second page in its entirety was deemed Not impartial and Even the data portion Um The commission discussed a little bit the numbers around evictions in the county includes, you know, not just musky um And not only no cause evictions So that eviction data put against the housing data quickly will look Will not be interpret is hard to interpret that accurately without really reading into the footnotes and understanding what the data means So they felt it wouldn't Be very informative. Um, what would be telling the picture that probably a lot of people would take from it? So the data piece also Was not seen as very helpful Um, and I think the one other change the commission discussed was making it clear that you know This is a voter backed petition and not a result of the city effort And if that's the case to put that on the top that the summary does say that So I think that that um that particular comment is kind of incorporated in the text as it is So the housing commission recommendation was to just put it forward as it is um with the first page potentially adding something a little bit more emboldened to mention that I missed anything Elaine or anything else that you would clarify. Okay What about so I feel like the reason we put the Programs on there was because we wanted this to be another opportunity to let people know what's available to them Did that come up? Yeah, the even even articulating all the other stuff we're doing was seen as somewhat unbiased or somewhat biased as in Or conflating that this is one of many efforts of the housing commission So I think trying to explain that this is or sorry the of the city the housing commission and council So the distinction between this is a voter backed effort That the city is trying to educate people about the implications of versus or what it means to vote on this Versus where does this fit within all of our wudiski housing work? It was definitely we talked about that opportunity to educate and to expose this is important But then it muddies the connection between this these two efforts I guess was the big way. There wasn't clear direction from the commission on that. I think that's something we could talk about Yeah, yeah, it's in general not in favor of not having the entire back page. What's the consensus? I have a similar thought to the mayor and maybe it is striking some of the items under policies and programs and maybe twiggling at resources Because I still see the value in you know, using this as an opportunity to share resources And I'm just trying to figure out I I agree that kind of the the I guess the effects um Definitely feel like negative and that kind of the data almost feels like the reverse it feels like a positive Because people might read it and be like, oh, that's how many No cause evictions have happened instead of that being fully understood. I as you mentioned Councillor Duncan, but I I do feel like there might be some items under policies and programs that Are worthwhile to keep and maybe even listing opportunity I mean, I was thinking too if this is something that's going to be a web page You could then have links to contact information or if folks want to attend or join the housing commission Links to to the form items like that that are just more if you want to engage in other ways or Something like our again like resources that seems valuable to me I feel like we could take um You know if we're scrapping the data the box could be Housing resources and labeled as such to kind of separate it. Yeah, like while we're on the topic of evictions. Here's Yeah, I like that I think the one Drawback to that again is the This is a communication to the public From the council and from staff and does it conflate the two right? Is this one more of our housing resources? Or is this And and I think we want to think carefully not only about what this would communicate to folks who might consider voting for this Or against this but also folks would be impacted by this both renters and landlords and I think that's where I emerged from that discussion at the housing commission thinking more about the implications for that of making it very clear That this is a fact sheet about just cause eviction charter change voting what it means and what it'll do and what it won't do Or how the process unfolds versus Like what the city is doing about housing, right? I think those are those are two things If they're on the same pamphlet, they're both a city thing and I think that that may be A positive to somebody and it may be a negative to somebody else and And so I just think when we I'm imagining a landlord who for rightly or wrongly is really concerned about just cause eviction Capacity in the community to see this those cities programs put alongside it Can look like an endorsement So I think there's that there's that I don't know what the right answer is But it's a concern that I have about what this will mean or message to people About where the city stands as the council as the staff stands on this issue. Yeah, and read Sorry Um, I'm kind of looking at again. I think yeah, the policies in particular and where I fall back is the programs I wonder then you're right like On the pamphlet going out just including the info from the front page, but then maybe Having in a little box at the bottom on the web page links to other resources. So kind of balance it Yeah, I I feel like we could just have a single link If you're looking for housing resources, we have the housing resource initiatives page that has a lot of this stuff on it So it's it's really like one sentence I also could see a second page like a separate sheet That comes with us to events that Separates that as well with different branding potentially and something else to consider So we can still have the opportunity to put out information about how housing resources in the community Like need help now. These are things that are already here for you. Yeah, especially the housing trust fund Which I feel like we've been looking for ways to promote more too So it feels like a good opportunity and that is can be used by landlords homeowners and renters. So Um We'll talk more about education outreach in a minute But I did want to say that I brought this up with the housing round table group that I've been meeting with monthly um and so they were interested in There was I should say there was interest in if we're having Outreach opportunities like we could share information from other agencies as well But again, that's separate from this um So as a reminder that group is Who's in there the housing authority school district Champlain housing trust our chair of the housing commission Not you i'm just putting it you because you're on the commission Someone from uvm medical center You know and they They generally oh, yeah cvo. Yo is usually represented there wasn't anyone there last week um So they were generally supportive of this and That's that's all I need to say actually They they were just generally supportive of this and and thought it was an opportunity to maybe get other resources out too I'm sorry. I'm like diverting us from the question at hand One thing I think could be useful Um, I feel that like with most ballot measures People just want to Have time to process the language because a lot of times the first time they're seeing it is when they step into the booth So like maybe even just putting the actual language that they'll see on the ballot take it out of Legal ease and put it into plain english. I think that alone helps people Or even just put it on the second the back page, right? Yeah. Yeah, I mean somewhere on here I just think like this is even even as it is because that's gonna have to be what they're voting on I I support the plain language and I I think I can see also staff having a hard time being like, how do you want me to word Smith? Fair? Yeah So I I do I would struggle Seeing the first page without any more context Do you want to speak to the Yes, you might have seen some of my facial expressions. I did Yeah, actually we asked the city attorney Just for the warning whether it should be shortened and city court could develop A concern that it might get lost I think is similar to what your concern is and His suggestion is do it in full because there is a risk in staff, you know, shortening it Okay Yeah, and I just think giving people time to read it. I mean, you know Because here we talk about it, but then even the second page like doesn't actually tell you what it is Yeah, I agree and that might both Make this tool valuable for Especially valuable thinking about interpretation But also if folks are getting this and then coming to an event or getting it and then reaching out to the counselors They have the question they can be like this part. I don't understand. Could you explain that to me more? Yeah, I like that Um, I have to say I I had initially I don't love leaving out the context of the impacts and had initially thought about like a condensed What I thought of his less negative version But then I think we're also We're able to share the impacts on city operations But we're not also saying the potential impacts on if the thing is in place Which I think is hard to do So I would be supportive of dropping the back content putting the ballot language on there And adding just one link to More information As I was looking at some of what Burlington had on their resource page they had an FAQ I don't know if We've got enough questions yet already to start populating an FAQ With some responses Perhaps after the hearings Um, but I I see value in in that it just I mean if one person's asking the question, I'm sure other people are asking or thinking some of the same thing so Having a A support a supplemental document Could be helpful and I know there's struggles with staying neutral and I still think it's better than nothing I thought the first half of Burlington's was neutral and the second half was not I think I mean that was entirely different that wasn't a Petition an initiative that was a council moved I think we can revisit that the FAQ idea after we have these public hearings I could see that being part of the general page to depend if it's just a couple to having at the bottom and it might be that Rewarding some of the language we have on the back like we have that written now If there are ways we can reword it that then answer questions that come up Yeah, we it's a resource that we now have so I think it's Uh helpful to have even if it's not what we're going to really put forward to residents Yeah, there's is almost two pages single spaced Um, but again their process is different than ours and we're going to have different questions than what they were considering and addressing I don't know what their time frame was but they had more staff support to answer them well But that's part of your next conversation About efforts It's a so are we in agreement on the changes to the document? Yeah, so I just want to clarify a question on the arrows There's musky city council votes to move forward or stop Law created city council votes again. Oh, yeah, it shouldn't say city council, right? Well, I'm just I'm wondering what the second vote of the city. So there's if the charter is approved by the Legislature and the governor Then we have that in our charter. We can vote to create an ordinance But I don't understand. I guess I just wanted to check what the second vote was implying Is it to put it to public hearing and then to approve or Oh, maybe is it that we we vote to start Creating ordinance and then we have to vote on the ordinance. So we go to initiate the process of Yeah, I One last time before we put it in there and in the packet and I thought about that was you don't it You'd have to take it up. That's really the point. Yeah, so They're we've completed it a little bit to Make it hopefully more digestible But essentially you're deciding whether or not you take it up and I assume that you'd be voting whether or not to take it up I think so Yeah, I do agree that's confusing Um, it's confusing for us. Is it confusing for others? I mean I say it's not a good sign Um, I wonder if it could be Because I get the I get what it means, but when you see city council votes to move forward or stop That essentially is like we will produce an ordinance for public hearing or not and then After public hearing there's a final vote to adopt or not And I wonder if we'd say in law created. It's just public input and final council vote and if yes, so there's like a Like I'd say like a first Woody ski council like on the second the third one is the first when you see a city council vote and the final when you ski City council vote just to make it clear that there's like two steps in that process with additional public input There's a lot of cram into boxes, but somehow it like I agree that the law created is the sticking part That's the part that's messing me up. Yeah, maybe that's what it is if we could just get rid of law created somehow public hearings Sure or public input public I do like showing that there is another step for the public before Public input and when we see city council votes again If yes, then there's just a message. Yeah, um, and then Just to pose the question There's a validation vote that's not reflected on this timeline. I feel like that's two in the weeds That was my reason for not including it I feel like it will introduce confusion for but it's also part of the process And maybe let this be added in the I'm sorry why I In this case, it's like five or one seven of the other, you know what I mean As opposed to six and one half I'm not strongly against it is my point. I Yes Not leaving out the validation vote To me leaves out a pretty significant procedural stuff that we are being required to follow It might be required to follow If there isn't a state well, but we would abandon it if there's a statewide statewide effort on Just cause like we wouldn't have to go through without our charter change process at that point We could just kind of abandon that's true. And we wouldn't have to have a validation vote I think it would depend how they wrote it, you know, yeah, like we may not be advisable We probably should do it no matter what because we screwed up the thing that I think given the poor reporting and for DT digger about what happened. I think it would be the hubas to list Yeah, the the fact that this there's going to be a might like a procedural vote As part of the staff that could even be like a box like the light blue box underneath voters vote on charter change May require procedural second procedural vote Just to because I think it is like it is another chance to vote on the thing But it is like doing the same step twice and I think We could relegate that to a sub box I like that idea Yeah, it is super confusing but it does If later we're telling people to vote on it again, they're gonna be like yeah And we can go into more detail too at like the public hearing. So here we can We have the basic information going out people can be like well, what is that little Let's talk about the validation Yeah I'm comfortable with that. I do think it needs to be on here. Um, so if that's That seems like it's the best place. I'm fine with that Okay Yeah, um, so if you want to simplify the whole graphic, I think you could lump three and four Together when you see city council votes twice or two two rounds or two When you see city council goes through ordinance development If yes and votes if yes just cause eviction to kind of If we get to the point of doing when you ski boats on creating ordinance, we can explain the whole Like introduction, introduction, hearing, hearing passage like at that point, um If you wanted to collapse some boxes and reduce the complexity of the graphic That's one thing that I think is can be is lumpable Um, that there's an ordinance passage procedure for the city council if we get the charter change yeah, I I like the simplifying it, but I wonder if then the it doesn't work as well as a timeline would be my concern because Yeah, very specifically no specific timeline, but then the two months. So I think that would be my concern All right, I would draw it Okay So we want to call out that it's a voter-back petition. We had the validation vote. We changed law created a public input We scrapped the back put the ballot language in at a single sentence link to our housing resources page Um, motion by jim second by aurora before we vote do you do is that good? Do you have enough information? Yes, I'll share this with you too Yeah Okay All those in favor, please say aye. Aye Motion carries. Let's talk about outreach now I do want to let you know that let you all know that Um, last week I reached out to my contacts in the samali association and the congolese association Um, generally about this item as well as the budget to get a conversation going there I don't know if They're going to want to come to one of our events or if we're going to go to them, but um have started that outreach And Something that I was thinking about too is so we have these public hearings for this item But when we do our budget presentations, we always include ballot initiatives too. So there's also Three additional opportunities to to talk about this Um I believe What staff has presented here kind of aligns to what we some things we have done in the past Alayne, I don't know if you or paul want to talk through Well, actually what I'd like to do is raise the caution that there might to the extent that our limited english proficiency residents are renters the volume of um Education effort that is implied not decided applied by the types of budget quotes you requested so far um is that we would be perceived to be concentrating on a tenant education effort And I haven't heard anything yet on landlord education effort I I feel like we could push back against that by specifically pointing to the equity audit that we are What this represents is the city doing equity efforts. It's not the city prioritizing It's the city equalizing so I don't know if that is useful, but I It feels Like I I both can see why people would make that argument, but I also don't think it's a good argument that should mean we do Less equity work that would be my concern is like I hear that but less that doesn't mean we should do less equity work outreach to landlords I guess I would uh let My fellow counselors weigh in with that, but I definitely want feel like To meet the goals we have set out in various ways we should do um What needs to be done to get the information out in a way that is accessible to our residents and that should be the priority Is there a total for the estimates here? No, because I didn't know if you were picking and choosing from a menu or if this was the whole course meal So I would agree with counselor heard that um Uh things should be additive at this point from what's on here I think there are some additional things That we should do to notify landlord property owners Um bulk mailer. So right now it says um to all addresses in monewski. I think that needs to go to property owners Um the landlords so print and digital so I think The fire department also has a number of emails and that's um Really Just labor in terms of cost And I don't know how much a bulk mailer would add in additional costs So I I don't know what additive expense would be there, but I'd say at least in those two instances We should We should add landlords property owners As part of that outreach effort What would go on a bulk mailer just because that's fact sheet And may work for I can I can answer that quickly based on what we've done in the past never mind if you remember for um separate initiatives like um all resident voting and for um bombings at the bombings remains through or if you're looking at the costs that's associated There's a is a five by five Uh postcard. So it was teeny tiny. Um remember we did one for the centennial birthday party as well So there's no way to get the entire fact sheet on there, but you could leave to the web page of the QR code and get A sample there. Um, and then the costs that are included on that page Should the students really took costs Production for printing and then posted which is uh, they're just separate but um, you could I mean you could summarize You know Are we considering This is a question for us Uh, a mailer just for this or do we want one for The but like for town meeting day like there's a charter change. There's a budget I'm sure you for town meeting day We've done one for town meeting day in the past. I guess will be my question We did um during covid And that was um In lieu of mailing a ballot to every household, we did a postcard with the information I just have a question about that price. Have we pursued other printing companies because I Happened to know you can print something much bigger than that and send it to the whole town for cheap for about that same price Reports there so we do We could put the whole fact sheet in the newsletter We would it would be that you could potentially do a good chunk of that. Yeah Do you have the could you figure out the cost poll where we're sitting here of that extra page? Or there'd be no cost to us We already fund half of that publication. So we would just Send it up to the editor Well, we can't put the public hearings in there like it's too late for that right We can have the summary Website questions and info on charter changes. I think that's All I would shoot for So the front and back of the Sheet that we just voted on well not this section and I would say not the back not the not the proposed language ballot language Unless we're putting the whole like town meeting day What we do for hours in a voting Not that That would be a best practice Um Also, when is the next news when is the newsletter do when is the next do you date for the newsletter like We're too late for february, aren't we? So we're looking at march right now They're not gonna people aren't going to get it in time As much as possible, I think it would be good to combine town meeting day general information with this And I think even thinking about interpreted sessions if we're going to put interpretation dollars to something I would love to see it be at our budget presentation and discussion of this rather than public hearings Specifically on this and leaving interpretation and I don't know if this is if they've already planned for interpretation at So just thinking about interpretation specifically I'd like to stick coordinate with town meeting day in general the budget presentations And in general how much can we get both and not do two separate communications campaigns around this and our budget? Well, so the public hearings had to be warned for this Yeah, okay, which which is fine. I think some of this might fit specifically for the public hearings I was just thinking like maybe we first knock off what can be done in tandem with town meeting day communications And then what's left over that we have to do specific for this in the public hearings And then one at the public Do you mean in the announcement? We said the second one would have interpreters We haven't said anything. Okay. Okay. We didn't have direction. That's I just want to confirm Okay I was thinking the other way like would we be adding budget? I guess I don't know that matters if it's not I mean, is that a public hearing on the budget as well? I don't know if we'd have to Work it's informational on the budget and the hearing on the I don't know Don't want to risk it I guess On january 3rd. I had the impression that we were going to have interpreters at the 4th That's what we did discuss. Yeah a desire to do that Yep, that's right I think I'd still have that desire because I think I like I think what we talked about of having one that's in the evening With virtual access and then having one on the weekend with interpreter access feels Kind of equitable in reaching different parts of the community I think that would be my preferences to continue with that I do acknowledge though that there's the note that it with So many languages it would be hard to hear so that that is I'm not sure If there's a best course of action with that or if we just build in to have those Does our zoom account have Uh Features that allow translation No, that's um you have to hire interpreters for that. I mean it's on on a technical level. Yes, but um I mean that we're talking about the the 26th Resume as possible in the council cameras and not possible For the overhand center Right, and I'm thinking about there because this one's the 26 will be recorded If a language option via zoom is something that's included in one of our paid features or not Yes, and I also think we should have in-person interpreters for the fourth We the when we had um An all resident voting info session with interpretation at the O'Brien Center Like it's not super smooth, but there were kind of like different groups seated together and it worked okay Yeah, I remember like just like planning in the pauses to ensure folks Can go through the interpretation. Yeah I think it is a little bit challenging because For like people asking questions, but That's what we can provide right now. Yeah, maybe a plan to like go in a circle and Making sure that you ask like does your group have a question doesn't work from it. Yeah. Yeah Well, I think so just kind of let's start and pick menu items if we focus on translation into eight languages That we can get access to locally So really adds up like 170 dollars to do more but we do the eight languages interpretation Mailer combined with town meeting day info Pamphlets, I think we got the fact sheet. We just put the fact sheet so skip the pamphlets and then I think it might be worth doing the hybrid meeting recording Because that's a distributable resource afterwards on the 26th So essentially from this list, I would say let's not do the pamphlets And If we wanted to save 170 dollars, I think it's okay to do eight as opposed to 11 Though at less than ideal I would agree with all of that Yeah, and I think maybe I'm forgetting with the recording if we're recording the One in the evening we might be able to Find ways to interpret it after the fact I don't know if we'd want to talk about that now or see if that's a possibility I also have a question just before we get into that I thought our contract for Temi TV had one additional meeting. Does that go to the planning commission? Paul keeps track It's three it's three total meetings. Yeah, so it's generally two council meetings and then either a planning Or DRP We're pretty deep this month Yeah, we've exceeded the budget meeting. We've also exceeded that Right specifically for having the field branch center or not It's a it's a technical thing where they can't they can't be down there They can only be in the council chambers in the city Oh, I know about that Over to your thing about We could have a video translated after I might wait to see how that goes and see how productive the discussion is There's also We're recording our budget presentation for town meeting TV on the 9th 10th So we could also maybe like that's more worthwhile putting it in there and having it very specific informational Yeah, yeah, I can see that that might be a better tactic But again, we have it recorded. So if they're like, oh there we got it really good These 10 minutes of explanation Yeah, if something really good comes out of the 26 we can talk about that talk about using it. Yeah, that sounds good I mean, we also can just print these black and white at city hall and distribute some versus like nicer pamphlets Are there any public comments on this item So the the only thing I don't see I did want to kind of come back to your point Delaney or your your observation that this is not really Reaching like we're going to rely on really passive Uptake by landlords that this is happening, especially like smaller owners I'm not thinking of like the bigger corporate property owners The folks who own like four units Um How they'll get access to this information they'll find out about that on the mailer they'll get that that's really the only resource That's kind of actively going to them Yeah, can we email them all is that something that you can do like those my question is can we use the rental registry? Is this a sufficient another's desire to Be judicious with how much goes out on that email list Is this a sufficient import that the city can notify that these public hearings are coming up to that community? I think we would be remiss if we did not okay great And include interpretation information On that too, right? Or just the meetings. Yeah, I know that we have message differently. Yeah, that's what I mean. Yeah. Exactly. Sorry. That's what I was Is there any channel that's missing? And um, I presume like what Another thing I wanted to ask about is frequency. So some of things are one time. So bulk mailer. That's a one-time thing um What would be An example of multiple Um frequency touch points Well, so paul, I'm going to put you on a spot here in a minute. Um thinking of like how many times to you or you know over voters to all resident voting I mean the part track you actually didn't do too much. So Paul, do you have a record of how many times? I mean not specifically but roughly We messaged about all resident voting I'm going out of the cop in my head. No, um But you know as far as things that can be duplicated, obviously your social media posts can be reshare, you know, um asking, you know partners to to share that stuff and Those are your those are your repeat uh situations that you want to do thoughtfully hammer it every day lose lose traction on that but Yes, it doesn't be those instances We could still include something in the newsletter as don't forget Towneating day. There's also this ballot item Um the listserv is not on here What which was the opt-in email listserv It's supposed to be It's on a memo that was included And less than 300 you know subscribers there that would be you know general news okay same as all the other ones Yeah, it's in the the separate memo about the communication outlets of the city in general. Okay Oh, I guess kind of tied to that Do we think that the community service what's at the count? Um, that's a slightly smaller contacts, but um Could be used as well Yeah, I mean that's why it's on the okay this I assume I just want yeah make sense Yeah, again, we're we're not we're not trying to advocate for for even a specific outreach want to try and share with you all the options that you have So that you can tell us what you want I mean all the regular social pushes social media pushes I would I would anticipate we put everything out that way So the hearings are normal channels. Yeah, and then town meeting day in general Is normal channels, and then we've identified additional expenditures for the Charter change In terms of the info sheet. So you want that translated? I think so right? Yeah, so the poll we have is for the for the two pages But the chart of language is going to be in more that will be more text except We might have that quote already for because it has to be in the ballot or those Something that someone can look at to vote with So that's already going to be done So that's not really included here like we basically lose a page of We're cutting the pages in half for this quote Not quite in half, but there's less content to translate Well, there's more Well, we have to translate the warning the ballot language anyway. Yeah Assuming that the translations are not ready in time for the hearings Um We can I think if we did Whatever the communication is that goes out around like town meeting day Which will include this ballot item like that can include the Here's how to access the the the thing that we do that says like to see this in nipali or whatever the different languages are and um I you know, I would also just share directly with some folks that I know that in certain languages Because I also put things out in English in my circles. So it is Not a specific targeted thing, but um Yeah, I I guess what I'm trying to articulate is Not going to be ready by thursday for sure And if it's not ready by saturday We can still push out this information. It's worthwhile to translate because we could still get it to partners Okay So we it sounds like From the the list of added costs We're going to pay for the hybrid access Uh translation of the flyer to eight languages Um a bulk mailer for town meeting day and just cause eviction Those are the additional expenses and then we're also asking for the rental registry email and the interpretation Oh an interpretation. Yeah, thank you bulk mailer to All addresses in wenewski and all property owners from wenewski Because some of them might not live in wenewski Sadly But paul it doesn't include all the property owners that own Um in wenewski, but don't live in wenewski. Is that correct? If a property owner does not live in wenewski, do they get the bulk mail? All right It's just the zip code basically They also don't get to vote on the petition. Yeah, so I feel like emails enough. I think emails enough for everything If I think it would be a lot of I don't know this the legwork To put together those addresses in mail that would be significantly more than just the zip code based one Yeah, and if we have an email that they provided us that we should assume that that is a way of coming to it You're having thoughts. Well, just again just for your information not advocating for against but eric our RGS property tax map. Does that include mailing addresses for owners? That's how we'll set up in my other town It has address information for the owner at the time All So putting that together is not it's not the expense. It's the Sorry, I thought we just decided on the email. I guess I just don't see For a reason what if we had every wenewski residents email. I would say let's just do that Let's cut the expenses or we can I think it's a cost. I think it's an appropriate cost savings measure for this one personally I agree since they can't vote on it. Yeah They can find out and make comment, of course I'm sorry. I'm backing you up quite a bit now, but um After christine you gave the list or are you added something and I didn't get the interpretation the interpretation for Saturday, yeah Um, and then This is a level of detail, which is a little weird to be asking you, but um, you said eight languages Which As proposed I think in the item. Yeah Okay. Yeah, I thought it was nine It's eight I'll tell you why I'm asking and again. I'm not advocating for against just point of information so I'm not sure where the eight came from but um The school district does an annual survey of their language communities and it's currently 11 It looks like it used to be nine, which is how that that number came about I know I know that some of those languages are not written languages though Is that included in the 11 or is it more including the non-written languages? Paul, do you have that off the top of your head? I didn't know. I think the intention was to include the currently updated list that the school district uses The I have to go over that again that I mean that's basically what we would do right Just mirror the the current list that the school district has my understanding is that the a alv only has eight of the 11 languages And we can't get a lot of that's what's included. Yeah, so that's why I'm assuming that's where the h interpreted languages came from As well as that Thank you for reminding me of that. So there there's two options there for the interpretation I want to ask for clarification on so if we use language link it could support more. However They would not be providing in person interpreters. So it's two different strategies. Basically One is you have all the language in writing and then you have interpreters that are looking at some Potentially somebody else's you know translation to interpret with interpret being in person activity translation is the written activity so um or you could Get fewer languages, but have potentially the you know people who are even more familiar with the like with the I would lean towards the latter Fewer languages. Yeah, because they there's an opportunity for deeper understanding Yeah, well, I I think maybe more on I think what was proposed on here has two options for translation Only one option for interpretation and I think I would also lean to the Interpretation in person, but I could see um, especially if maybe this I guess it depends if we're only translating What we're translating both sides, but primarily for this case the first side would that $2,000 be increased from language link um Because what was provided? Yeah, it was one from a a lv which was eight languages and one from language link Which was 11 languages and a slight difference in cost And just to add to that consideration paul I feel like you've told me before that it might take lv a little longer to turn around a translation. Is that accurate? Yeah, I mean it's definitely, you know for on a case-by-case basis There's just no way to estimate for that sometimes it stands longer I think for written interpreter excuse me written translations language link is um, I mean they're a they're a huge company And we've got a really good success to turn that stuff around So you could go um, you could go language link for for that whole list and then for a lv for interpreters, I mean, you know provided that they even have the The capacity and the staff to do it. I don't know that we can guarantee that at this stage Okay, I guess one thing I think about is just kind of like a customer service standpoint if we translate it into languages that we're not going to have people for at the hearing or we just set in a bunch of people up for failure well, if the information sheet doesn't go out doesn't go out until after I think It should be fine. Yeah, I thought about that too, but Being able to read it and not get follow-up is better than nothing I wanted to support the local Um entity, but given capacity and timeline concerns Is the ballot going to be translated into 11? That's a good question. Yeah. Yeah, let's just do that access to um February 26th Translation into 11 languages from the school bulk mailer for town meeting day and just cause eviction Interpretation for February Saturday February 4th from ALB in an email to the public building registry owners. Yes Yes Someone want to motion approving that Motion by Jim second by thomas all those in favor. Please say aye. All right motion carries All right, thank you Let's move on to our last item then This is on for discussion approval of the city manager review process So per contract, um The city council will perform an annual performance evaluation of the manager I realized we did this not that many months ago for um Elaine's probationary period However, I want to get us back into this uh, February cycle because it a lot it works well with for example We're about to have turnover on the council I wouldn't want someone evaluating it Just a couple months in um, so what I have recommended here is the same process we've held before And I am hoping to identify a volunteer to distribute the survey this year. I kind of volunteer to do that That's fantastic. Um I think you would just need to get access from paul. Is that right? So is that one? Okay And I'm having a chat with you. Okay Okay, great. Yeah, so it was just it was a survey. We all filled out. I'll do the right one this time We'll just make it more clear We'll simplify council only Um, and then I have the timeline here. So this says it would be distributed tomorrow. This week is fine Um, I don't know what I was thinking And then um, if we have our responses in my end of month Then we have a if we get it by the second we have time before the sixth to review and Um, I have a chat with them Any uh questions about that? Okay. If um If that all sounds good, do I have a motion to approve? So moved Second motion by jim second by brinn all those in favor. Please say aye. All right motion carries. Thank you I had worn the executive session just in case we don't really need it though so This brings us to the Sorry for clarity The executive session was just in case we wanted to talk about the evaluation process In greater detail We clearly don't need that so we can forego that item Which brings us to the end of tonight's agenda. Do I have a motion to adjourn? Motion by thomas second by jim all those in favor. Please say aye. Hi motion carries. Thank you all