 Hello and welcome to Nias Clique. Today we're looking at a case where a 21 year old climate activist has been taken to a remand for five days by the Delhi police. She was flown out of Bangalore and brought all the way to Delhi. And there are interesting legal developments which are taking place, which are crucial to understand the case. And Disha Ravi has been the founder of Friday's Future India, which is an organization which was looking at multiple campaigns. And the allegation against her is the fact that she had edited a document on Google Drive which was shared by Greta Thunberg, the climate activist from Sweden. And she had prepared a document in favor of the ongoing farmers protests in India to amplify the campaign. And we're discussing the legal developments today with Kotlin Gonzalvis from the Supreme Court of India as well as from the Human Rights Law Network. And thank you, sir, for joining us and speaking with us. A major issue which is being discussed currently about the case is the fact that she was sent to the remand without the magistrate, you know, her council being in front of the magistrate with her. So this is a big question and the kind of repercussions that it has. So can you explain that to us as to what has happened and why this is so crucial? Well, it's really very simple. The Supreme Court has declared quite some time ago and has repeated that order again and again. And that is that a legal aid lawyer is required to be present and the accused may demand a lawyer of her choice as well at the stage of the first remand. And apparently that was not done and it's not understandable as to how the remand magistrate proceed in the matter. One, second and equally important is when there is no evidence shown to the court of her involvement in any crime. No evidence, I said, not just a story. A police may give you any story that they want to give you about Kalistan and all that, but it is the duty of the remand magistrate to ask, do you have anything with you today? Apart from your general theories and your general, you know, fairy tales, so to speak, what is the evidence you have today? And remand magistrates are routinely making this mistake. You must insist to see the evidence before you remand a person. I'll explain this a little bit. You see all over the world and in India as well, you conduct an investigation. The police does that. No problem. The police could have conducted an investigation against her, but they only arrest when they have a good enough docket of documents, proof, evidence that she is involved in some criminal activity of a serious kind. Now this guy is this remand magistrate is going in the reverse direction. He's accepting the story and he's presuming that after 90 days when the police file the charge sheet, then some evidence will come up. But then if evidence is going to come up, then you can't arrest now. So it's a totally illegal arrest without any evidence requiring the custody of the freedom of a person to be acquitted. Absolutely. And there are other two activists and non-ailable warrants have been issued against them as well, Nikita, Jacob and Shantino. So what kind of a case do you see is building up now? And it's just the kind of message that it is sending out to young climate activists or young activists and people involved in politics. See, they don't have a case. Yeah. They're building up something in the air, you know, castles in the sand, so to speak, or what are castles in the air, whatever. They don't have a case. Right? What can the case be? Toolkit. I've read the toolkit. You've read the toolkit. The whole country has read the toolkit. In fact, it should be used by all activists throughout the country now. Since the government of India is challenging us on this toolkit and is making a big hooha about it throughout the country, people should now spread this toolkit, use the tool, believe a step-by-step guide to peaceful, democratic, secular actions. Yes. What's wrong? So I think now we should take advantage of that situation. And you, so what case do they have against them? Nothing on being linked to the, you know, the Kalistan movement? Nothing. Nothing. So I think every journalist and everyone asking the government should ask this question. You've curtailed their liberty. You are making out as if some grave offence is there. So tell us, sir, the whole country wants to know, as somebody would say, the whole country, the nation wants to know what is the evidence against them that you curtail their liberty. And everyone will tell you, we'll tell you after 90 days as the investigation goes on. So they are fishing. They're fishing, hoping that they'll catch some fish, but there's no fish to catch. And, you know, the process being so excruciating, especially for young people and activists like her. So how do you see this process for young people and the kind of chilling effect that it might be sending out to so many people? See, the normal answer that a person would give you is that it has a chilling effect on young people and so on. But that is undeniably true. Of course. Exactly. What the government wants to do, it wants to bully you. You're a young activist with creative ideas. You're building a new India according to your dream and not these old politicians, stupid old dreams and, you know, prejudices and customs and traditions and all, which we reject today, right? Absolutely. So that's exactly what they want to do. Chilling effect is another word for bullying. But I look at it in a different way. I want to tell all young people in the country, take this as a super opportunity. Super opportunity. Because they've got no case against her. Shameful. No case against her. Take it as an opportunity and challenge the government. This is what I'm using. And throughout the country, take the opportunity and a chance today for peaceful, democratic, secular protests. Spread it. This atrocious government, this very autocratic and pernicious government has given us a chance by making the toolkit, the center of their attack. So we'll make it the center of our counterattack. Everybody use the toolkit. Not for violence. Not for something undemocratic. But for democratic, peaceful protest, everybody use the toolkit. Let's see who will survive. Will the attack survive or the counterattacks survive? So young people throughout the country, don't be afraid. Don't go on the back foot. Don't feel bullied and threatened. On the contrary, take this as a unique historical chance. A once in a lifetime chance in India. Go on the attack and say, we are not going to be bullied. We are not going to be threatened. We are not going to back down. This is a new India. This is a new generation of young people. And we are not going to be threatened like this, bullied like this anymore. Just one last thing. So this is a very important message that you've just given, because these kind of cases can create an atmosphere of fear like that. But just, you know, what happens with the 90 days, if they do come up with evidence or they just create evidence. So then how do you see this case taking its legal cost? Do you feel that, you know, after 90 days, it will be done and that's it, but too much damage could have happened by then? See, have confidence in yourself. Have you done anything wrong? Take this girl who's in jail. Did you fire a gun? Did you throw a grenade? Did you kill somebody? Did you conspire with some, you know, deadly terrorist in your heart? You know, you're innocent. Why should you bother what they're going to do in 60 or 90 or whatever days? You know, why should you bother? You know that they don't have anything. Challenge them, face them. See, a person doing some kind of underhand activity, some planning, some criminality, you have reason to fear. Once you are morally on the right track, you have no reason to fear. No matter what they do, have courage and face these tyrannical people, this tyrannical government, this tyrannical police force, who thinks they can take India in this direction of, you know, state terror. Absolutely. What are we doing? We are battling state terror. We are battling police terror. And very often nowadays, the biggest terrorist attack is coming from people in power. It's the old colonial system again. They terrorize the freedom fighters, calling them terrorists, isn't it? They use sedition against freedom fighters, calling them terrorists, the same. So recognize yourselves as the freedom fighters of today. Recognize yourselves as the foremost citizens of India. It is your duty to protect India. It is your duty to defend India against anti-national forces. Anti-national forces in the government, anti-national forces in the police, subvert the law, who destroy the law, who break rule of law. Today, it is us who tell them that they are the new anti-nations. And we must boldly say, reverse the dialogue. You are the anti-nationals. We are not going to be bullied by you. We stand for a strong and great India. We will not allow you to bully us like this. Thank you so much, sir. On that note, we will end this interview, but we will continue to, of course, bring our viewers, our readers, extensive coverage of this case, and of course, take your message forward for the kind of fights that the young Indians are envisaging today. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you very much for doing this. Thank you very much news click for doing this.