 Mr. Demeray, I think, uh, how are you? I'm good. How are you? Good. Good. Uh, let's see. I see that, uh, Daphne has sent us a new memo. Okay. Great. If everyone has an opportunity to just pull that up in their emails, uh, we'll just take a minute to look at it. So, Mr. Demeray, when you wrote that last sentence, or you kept it in, provide you with related policy language, if requested, what kind of request were you anticipating? Just a quick stretch to our language. I wonder if that makes sense to, to say, to say that. Committee, impressions on, on where this is at at this point? I stopped at mini grants. I had to add a question earlier and I forgot to ask it about whether we just call it grants or mini grants. Mini sounds tiny. Yeah, I don't know if there, if it's a word actually, but I looked at Senator Perslick and Senator Hooker, there maybe we just change it to grants. Block grants. I think one of the goals was to say that it's just a set amount that's kind of formula. I cannot, I probably use like categorical aid instead of mini grants, but it's, it's semantics. I don't know how much it matters for a letter. Oh, right. Right. Right. But it could just grant this by grants works. I think grants is better than mini grants. Okay. Grant it is. And I did, did have a conversation on, on a break, if you don't mind. Thank you. Please. That, that like, as Kenny just said, it gets, it's more complicated. You look and do it. It's like the different levels of, you know, you know, instruction really depends on the needs of the child, which obviously makes sense that if you're, if you have never spoken English before, you need a lot more attention than if you just like, you speak English, but your family doesn't. It's the things like that. So whether it's a part-time aid or a full-time teacher and cultural liaisons and counselors is really changed. So it's not like an automatic number. Like if you have a few students, it's, this is what you need. If you have more students, that's the, the disparity of need is so great. But that said, just given a, given the need to pick a number, it seemed like under five was, was a number that, that seemed like with, with, with five students, they don't have too great a need that maybe in these rural areas, you would, you would come across that the $25,000 makes sense for that range. And then after five, you would jump up to the $50,000. But it's an imperfect. Anywhere you draw the line, it's gonna change. But so I guess that's kind of my suggestion to say one to five ELL students be $25,000. But if you have five to 25, then you have $50,000. Senator Chendon. I thought I recall on, you would know this better, Senator Perchlick and Senator Hooker, but there was some distinction not on a number of ELLs per school district, but in per school. So if a school district has multiple schools and there's ELL students there and there, then that, that might be the factor to raise it to $50,000. Is, is that ringing any bells? Yeah. And I think of it that because it's the school district that hires the staff. So in this says school districts, even though if I've been saying schools, I often get the two confused, but yeah, assuming they're close by all the sun school districts have some schools quite far away. But I think it might be hard for some of the rural schools that have five ELL students to find an ELL instructor in that in their area. So they might have to travel and share with other schools and other districts. I think what you're, what you're, I think, so this is my what I'm thinking the path forward. We would put it on the calendar just so everyone knows that we would vote on it on Tuesday just to announce, you know, to those watching Senator, I'll call Senator Cummings. I think we're still more than fine with timing actually, but that also gives us a little more time to, to think about this a center alliance. I'm just going back to the last sentence again. Yeah. Yeah, no, it's so I like ending the sentence at discuss it with you and then I'm trying to figure out what policy language we're going to give to finance because we really need to take some time to sort through that. And as you said earlier, it might go in the budget. Yeah, I would, I agree with you, Senator Alliance, I put a period after you and then be done with it. And then we work with the probes on the language or something like, you know, I'm looking to Senators Hooker and Perslick who are on the committee. Does that make sense to the two of you? The very last sentence. I think, I think that leaves it open so that we can do further with the probes. And so I mean, it's not as though Senator Cummings and that team down there, I mean, we've been in contact. It's not as though they're going to say, wait, where's that sentence? You know, they're not going to say, well, we better not ask them. You know, I think this has been a fluid conversation. I want to get them something. Okay, Jim, that makes sense. It does. I have a question going back to Senator Perslick's proposal. I get the, when the five, 25,000, 60, 25, 50,000, but is it per school or is it per school district? It's not about that, but I think school district, because that's where who's getting the money right through school district. You could do it either way. I mean, it's also a school district. You can make the payment based upon number of EOL at school with the school districts if you want. So you can still pay the school district either way. Yeah, I guess I don't, I haven't thought about it enough. And I guess if we say we're going to vote it on Tuesday, maybe people will, that'll focus people's attention. For the extra, would you prefer keeping districts, school districts or school? I personally, yes, but I'm looking to others. Yeah, personally, I like that. And that'll give everyone an opportunity to weigh in before Tuesday, before we vote. Okay. And Daphne, if you would put on the calendar for Tuesday, committee vote on Memo to Senate Finance. We'll do. Thank you. And yeah, Senator Pershaw. And well, Jim or Daphne, email the slightly altered one this afternoon, just so we could maybe send it to some folks the weekend before Tuesday. Yep, I'll do it right when we're done. Yeah. And Daphne, if you would also, yeah, post it. Yeah, and email it to all of us so that we can just forward it around folks after Jim makes those additional changes. Jim, could you also just put a little space at the top recommendation between recommendation and our committee? Oh, yeah, yeah. And maybe move over, you know, so okay, great. Anything else on this before we shift to Brad James? Okay, Mr. and Jim, we're going to see you in just a little bit on 219. Okay. Here, James, we're back. Again, Brad James, Agency of Education. So I updated it with how we discussed it. I left, I actually put numbers on the very top, it did not extend. So I can't go one, two, three, four, five, but I'm going to go one, two, three, four, five anyway. Column one is still the FY20 ELL account. So that's no change. Column two now is FY20 tax rate, which is what was being asked for. So that's where basically people were in FY20. And then I lost the R and estimated rate in column three, there's an R, supposed to be an R there. I'm sure it's in white font, so you can't read it. But column three is the tax rates that come from using all the weights plus the ELL weight of 2.49. And those are subtracted from the FY20 rate. So if we're using Addison Central as the first example, because it's on the first line, the FY20 rate was 1.618 and using the, their rate under the, using all weights goes up just over six cents. All right. So that's how we're reading this. Column one to the four now is the ELL grant, or pardon, I'm sorry, I apologize, the ELL weight, but with a, with a grant of $25,000 for those districts that have less than 25 or fewer. And then column five, the last column is the same thing, the change in tax rates if they had 25 or fewer, but at a $50,000 grant. So I also highlighted the negatives in yellow just because that's figured it's going to be easier to see, to differentiate because it gets confusing to me as you look down through these at times. So I'm just going through like these let's take a minute. Where is south, where is a southwest supervisory union? Southwest supervisory union, we Bennington's, they'd be right up at the top. These are, these are sorted by counties and then alphabetically by district. I'm looking at the wrong thing, sorry. So yeah, so I mean, you're, you're, you're seeing Southwest Vermont Unified or Union Elementary School District is, there's a few down, like maybe 10 down, I should have put number. No, these, these aren't by county, are they? Yes, they are. So I'm, so I'm sorry, I'm looking at then the document I'm looking at says Addison Central. Yep. Got it. Now I see it. Thank you. Got it. It'll probably help put darker lines between the counties. No, no, no, no, no, this is, no, I'm just, I always think about these things after the fact. So it's really interesting. Committee questions. This is a little bit more in talking with Senator Hardy, what I kind of expected to see. I think so. Yeah, this is really helpful. Yeah, yeah, this is, this is, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I think this is what he was looking for to the other day. Yeah. So again, this will be sorted out in really in finance, but yeah, Senator or Mr. James, anything else? I did do something for at Senator Hooker's request, just a quick second thing on the, what the tax rate impact would be. It's a very simple chart. It's the second one. I don't have my file up to see what it's called on your website, but it says price of some effect of tax rate or tax rate impact or something like that. It's just a simple chart. I mean, what is happening in Rutland town, since I'm going to be asked down, let me jump down. A friend of mine lives there and I think he may have a question or two. They go up. I just checked them. Yep, they go up 20 cents and they have no yellow kids, so they're 20 cents across the board there. There's kind of a neat incentive here to have a multicultural environment. True. So another friend of mine lives in North Bennington. Let's go to North Bennington for a second. First page about seven or eight down. Yep. And again, they have one ELL child, so they go up nine and a half cents almost and then they start dropping. And again, they drop to 7.8 cents at 25,000 and 6.1 cent increase at 50,000. Okay. And again, there are lots of other factors in the background besides ELL that are making these tactics. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Do you have any friends that live in Norwich? I do. I'm in Rutland. I'm all over the place. Now, that's really the limit of my friends to Rutland town. I don't know if I've offended anybody here, but yeah. Okay. This is very helpful. It kind of gives me a look into what April is going to be on the Senate floor as well. There's a ways to go on this and it's not going to be without its challenges. And it's, yeah, Senator Perchlick. Well, Mr. James is going over the second attachment to his email. We don't have it on our website yet, but the email. It is there. I just looked. It's called rate change impacts. Okay. Great. Sorry. So those are just, I guess it says that those are dollars. Yeah, I don't like dollar signs. So yeah, these are all dollars. And basically what I did is I just listed homes and values starting at $200,000 and increased by $50,000. It's down to $850,000 figure. How far do you want to go? And then I looked at the first four columns are rate increases, the second four columns are rate decreases. And I went by a penny, by five cents, by 10 cents, and by 20 cents. Just picking numbers, people kind of extrapolate. But again, as I said, one penny raises $10 per $100,000 home value because we tax on per hundred. So that's just based on what you're seeing. And you're seeing that, I don't know what else to say about it. It seems pretty, it's going towards me. But Senator Hooker, is this what you were thinking of something like this? So I mean, again, when you compare that to this one, you can get a rough idea of what's going to happen with individual taxpayers. Yeah. Oh, when you compare it to the second Yeah, to the, yes, to the, to the, the change, the change in tax rates here proposal, you know, as obviously these are estimates, these are FY 20 numbers. Right. And then looking at this, just seeing what's happening, it kind of gives you a rough idea of how it actually impacts the taxpayer, which I believe was Senator Hooker's real question was. Yeah. Thank you. Thanks for doing that, Brad. No problem. Okay. Okay. Anything else at this point? Mr. James, thanks so much for all of your work on this, this summer, as well as sticking with us through this point. We really appreciate it. You're welcome. It's I actually like doing this, which had more time to pay attention to it. Yeah, because I enjoy, I actually enjoy this part. Well, I don't want to speak for everyone else, but I think you're alone in that. I know that I'm a little out there. I guess. No, that's good. I think it's it is an extremely important contribution to our state. So I hope you realize that Senator Hooker, just a clarification before you go, Brad, that all of these numbers are inclusive of all of the weights. We're not just talking about English language learners here. We're talking about poverty. We're talking about density. We're talking about sparsity. We're talking about all those things. Yes, we're talking about all the weights the task force recommended, which came from Professor Colby's October 28 memo. That's what we're looking at right here. So it's all the weights that were recommended. Great. Thank you. Yeah, please. And I know you when you testified at the task force, you often gave all the caveats of obviously these numbers are going to change because the pupils will change and what the budgets of school pass will change. So this is just give us an idea what actually what happened whatever in two years when this would go into effect could be very different. It could be and it will be very different because by then these numbers will be four years old. Yeah. So, you know, nobody should think that this is what's going to happen, but this what this is doing is hopefully giving us some idea of what could happen based on what we know from at this point two years ago. And this is not what is going to happen FY 20 or 24, I guess it's all going to change. Yeah, this might show general trends, but I but you know, we're projected two years out who knows committee anything else point. Great. We'll put this up for a vote on Tuesday. Thanks, Brad. Very welcome. Really great to see you. Good to see you all too. Have a great weekend. Thanks you too.