 Welcome to the 4 o'clock block already I'm Jay Fidel and this is Think Tech and today we're talking about community matters with Ray Tsuchiyama informed citizen and we thought we'd talk about something timely although there's many other things to talk about but the most timely thing right now is James Comey friend or foe hi Ray good question bring up during this time because through through the years the FBI director has been seen as a person above politics or somebody who has tenure for 10 years or so and they really are supposed to investigate matters and within the United States not go outside but within the United States all kinds of things that will be threatening you know the society American society now recently including matters that emanate from outside the United States that's strange evolution but they do go after spies and there have been ever since the 30 especially in the 50s remember the post-war era Hoover went after the communists who were really from Russia and also people that who were were tagged or you know communists and the Whitaker trials and all kinds of things and and the McCarthy trials the army trials where they wanted to ferret out traders to the United States and they had a huge turnover and the destruction of the State Department because of that yeah well you know don't forget that Edgar G. Hoover was keeping dossiers on politicians for his entire time in office it made him very powerful and it made him beyond firing nobody could fire him because they have to pay a terrible price and that made the FBI different it was the power of investigation the power of information including negative information on politicians he created an ordinance the FBI is not a hundred years old it's more like 80 or so it was in the 30s today under Roosevelt I guess and he created an organization that was feared in government circles and I recall also and this came out recently that the tenure of the FBI director at least these days is ten years Hoover was there a lot longer than ten years that's right a very long time and you go back to a time of the 30s the gangsters they used to go after remember many of the arrests occurred when they brought monies or tax evasion across state lines so in those days the state police were very much in in their own little worlds and the FBI was a federal federal that's right that's right and that gave you know it really brought the country together to think that the corruption at a local level would be you know would be superseded by the purity of Elliott Ness and the boys at the federal level right they could come in without being you know linked to the politics or the business interests of Chicago or New York or Miami they could come in as clean g-men you're right but there are other countries like Japan and others that have national police agencies they don't have city or county or state or prefectural it's all national police is that better that's a good question because again if you're a national police agency you'll be sent from New York to serve in Hawaii or vice versa and you would have again going going back to you know this this notion of neutrality that you could investigate any crime that you could you would not be you know influenced by your friends or family or relatives or politics and those other countries do not have a very localized police force however on the other hand a local police force is they can see people and dealings in the neighborhood in Japan of course we have the little police boxes yes and every policeman knows every person on the block and so if you're not towing the mark the police will know about that and they'd be able to you know control it a lot better than if you're a stranger that's absolutely right actually they've been studies on this it's an idea not Japanese it was came in from Paris it's French like many things in Japan it's import but you're absolutely right in fact when I moved to a neighborhood this is it goes back to the mid 70s when I was a student a little later came by and asked me who I was and she would take down hold on yeah and then she would bring this information to the local policeman and when I saw the policeman he knew everything about me and it's not good or bad but he knows that I am of the neighborhood and I'm not a you know robber and in many cases we in Hawaii or many cities in Honolulu or Miami we don't know our neighbors we really don't know our you know neighborhood in Japan there's there's another thing you do know your neighbor through the police yeah so I mean oh please please it's a word that has negative connotation positive look at all the trouble about the police you know in the racial context in this country right now a G whiz I wouldn't want to be a policeman actually they're at great risk and nobody likes them and the FBI has managed to maintain this high-level thing and I'm not sure that Edgar who Edgar Hoover built the FBI but some of the things he did I don't think they do anymore I hope they don't do anymore and then after 9 11 you know there was all this trouble about black boxes and spying on people and I want to tell you about the 60 minutes episode last night because James James Comey was on it but this was before oh gee this is a 2012 or so he was the director of the FBI and he was ruminating about his philosophy over the FBI and he sure seemed like a good law enforcement officer he had the right idea about the Constitution he had sacrificed or at least threatened to he had quit or threatened to quit when George W Bush was doing something about surveilling surveillance on citizens back after 9 11 that that earns him our admiration he protected the Constitution he was not going to buy into W's efforts to surveil everyone and you got to give him credit for that he presented very well in in in the 60 minutes segment last night and I they didn't say any more about it they just played this old interview and you can make your own conclusions but the conclusion that most people would make is he's a pretty good guy what I where I get concerned is you know in the course of this recent election where he made these you know strange statements about investigation happening or not happening over Hillary Clinton's email that was really unprecedented for the FBI director get up there and make statements that he knew he had to know would have an effect on the election and ultimately I think they did have at least some significant effect on the election and I don't understand why he did that especially in light of the interview that we saw on 60 minutes last night where he presented as a guy who you know was not going to go off half cocked but I think he did go off half cocked during the Hillary Clinton effort yeah so it's so what I'm hearing from you Jay he is a very complex character far far more complex than you can see him on one light which is a protector of the Constitution but you can see another light in that he went out of his way to sway an election well I think he thought my guess is from what he said at the time over the several months ago he was doing the right thing he thought he's protecting the United States he said that's his that's his orientation as we saw in 60 minutes I I don't think he went over that you know I don't think he intended to hurt her but he did know that he was going to hurt her so I don't know if that's distinguishable but what do we go back you know about a lot more than I do the FBI as an agency is it truly independent or like some people say it reports to the Department of Justice does call me have a boss who it's that or does he kind of do things according to what he feels is right according to the Constitution and the mission of the FBI well both I mean I think he feels that he's independent and indeed the FBI director has been relatively independent up to this time and he he reports to use that term some deputy attorney general in in the Justice Department who is I wouldn't say his boss but somebody he reports to there's got to be somebody because in the end the FBI doesn't prosecute the Department of Justice right so he's got to feed his information he brings a package of evidence and say this kind of is leading toward this kind of what we think is a crime or is kind of like in that direction you have to make your own judgment and if you feel that you have a case we'll help you make that case am I am I correct yeah well right exactly the reports you know to the Department of Justice which makes the decision as to whether to prosecute that's the way it works with any law enforcement agency will report to the you know the attorneys and in the case of Honolulu would be the the prosecutor who decides whether to prosecute and then they go to court but why would he then as you said go on TV and say we have a lot of material we reviewed it but we're not going to prosecute and but why would anybody go on TV to say to say we're not going to do something and it makes everybody think that there is something right that's that's I think a lot of people felt that way and I don't know why he did that and frankly nobody had done that before and it seemed to me anyway to be manipulative and I didn't understand why people were calling him names certainly Democrats are calling him names every time he did that and did a couple times that's right and so now you know we have this strange circumstance with Donald Trump who should be appreciative for a Comey's public remarks during the campaign fires him okay he fires him and that is really strange in if you look at it through Donald Trump's ostensible right eyes because there was really no good reason to fire him you know he didn't come up with anything I mean it's amazing how sometimes public officials fire other public officials and you ask him for a reason they don't have a reason in this case Donald Trump kept shifting reasons he's still shifting reasons but the real reason Ray between you and me and anybody who's listening the real reason is Russia the real reason is Comey is was doing an investigation about Trump's involvement of Russia and that's the hot button that's the Watergate of Trump's administration and I think Trump was getting very uncomfortable in fact if you look at Trump's conduct over the past ninety hundred days you find that a lot of things he has done are obviously things to distract the public from the biggest issue of all and that is whether he was whether the election was manipulated by the Russians me for example when he got up in March and said Obama was was tapping his phone with no evidence he never supplied any evidence and everybody said what is this well I think the answer is clear he was trying to distract everybody from the big problem his big problem which is the Russians what do you think about that well that's a good question still because he has had many surrogates of many people in the Republican Party and others say that that's a great line but where is the evidence where is the evidence there there's not about Obama well about Russia about about Russia and can you point to a case where Russia has been determined the you know that this person a or this person B did the hacking or you know did something that is is part of the FBI evidence obviously they're not going to release this because they're doing an investigation right now but to the to the supporters of Trump and people there they said well you know the president makes his own decisions about who are the leaders in his cabinet or administration and he can put in another person any time that he wants so and that has that hasn't really happened with the FBI the FBI has stood the time the test of time that hasn't happened before I don't think that's right he was in three of a ten year typically a ten year tenure typically ten years and that's supposed to you know go beyond four-year term so ten years is goes over several administrations are right so and so and the next question I haven't seen in news yet of course is who takes over the post as FBI director and that will be very telling because the next person comes in we'll have to pick up the pieces of the investigation or says oh there's nothing there and why you know why continue it so that that is a very big name that will be coming up very shortly yeah it will be well maybe very shortly right now is the deputy is is the acting FBI and he doesn't particularly like Trump and he although the reports are a little mixed the fact is it seems like the the agents in the field staffing in the FBI liked Comey and they like this guy too so the FBI FBI is like you know getting together on this and making a united front on it you know I don't know what the evidence might be about Russia who knows I mean remember the dossier they never proved or didn't prove that yeah and remember you know the hacking claims of hacking but you know and remember there were people who felt and I'm not sure there's any evidence of this that there was you know ballot box manipulation and computer manipulation of the of the votes I don't know if there's anything to that but I think if you found that he was in league with Russia he was talking with Vladimir Putin and his people there's a lot of communication going on between the Trump campaign and Trump himself and the Russians he said that's entirely inappropriate whether it was effective or not whether it went as far as he would have liked to see it go whether it was a material element in the in the actual voting in the country if he had tried to manipulate by using his some kind of alliance some kind of affiliation with Russia that would be really bad and I would suggest to you that is a ground for impeachment if they can find that existed but I think it's gonna be hard for them to find that I'm sure they're working on it I'm sure that Comey was working on it plenty hard for whatever his reasons maybe he just likes raw meat stories I don't know but you know you know one thing Ray is that this we cannot afford to have and on the other hand just like the want to cry virus that's going around you know the ransomware virus is very hard to actually get the goods they're not gonna catch anybody so quick and they're not gonna catch anybody so quick who who was you know conspiring with with Putin and his people but there is there is a very interesting possibility for how this might come to light and right after this break Ray we're going to explore the likelihood that that will happen change everything I'll look forward to it I'm Jay Fidel this is Think Tech Community Matters we're talking about James Comey of the FBI friend or foe formerly of the FBI friend or foe and my my co-host is Ray Sushiama and he is an informed citizen and we're talking about she you know what is the connection between obvious I think the connection between the firing of James Comey and the Russian investigation the investigation over Russia so and I I was saying before the break I think it's gonna be very hard for Comey or anyone else the whole FBI to find you know the whole picture about what was going on with Russia and I and I suggest to you this there's the possibility in fact I would guess the fact that somebody in the Trump campaign and or the Trump administration okay has the goods they were there they were involved in the communications maybe it's Flynn they were involved in the communications they know exactly what happened and they hold the keys to that kingdom they hold the keys to the continuation of his presidency they hold the keys to the possibility of an impeachment they know okay that that is analogous to a person called deep throat exactly right and for years we didn't know who that person is and we found out later it was a person high in the FBI ranks in fact and we didn't know this until and this was a mysterious character who spoke to the two Washington Post reporters I believe in a parking garage somewhere in the DC like in the movie in a shadowy kind of thing and then don't use my name but this is what's happening and and what he says is follow the money of course that's the other thing and and of course when this Watergate incident first arose you know people thought why would why would burglars have phone numbers of Republican National Re-election Committee leadership that was very strange and why would they be former CI agents and why were they involved in the Bay of Pigs and and so forth so it was a and of course the person who really began to talk from the administration was John Dean and he would speak before the Congress and that will be used to send people like Haldeman Ehrlichman to jail later on but you're correct that this person hasn't come out yet but I reporters are of course want to discover this person who has the ability to understand what's really happening within the administration you can't have somebody outside the administration you have to have somebody inside yeah what was the name of that team of reporters I keep thinking of Robert Redford Bernstein and Woodward Woodward and Bernstein and they kept pressing on it they knew there was something there they knew there was fire behind the smoke and they and they found a query whether they would have cracked that case if they hadn't been so ardent and there hadn't been a deep throat that's right not sure that's true and then you're correct that the editor said why investigate this bungled burglary and it's nothing and these people will go to jail and maybe they're connected to this mid-level person and so you're absolutely right and it took down the presidency and he left for California and it ushered in Gerald Ford and then the Republicans really went down in in voter you know popularity and that would usher in Carter right and and and then comes a Tehran crisis and that would immediately bring voters to the other side and that would bring it's Ronald Reagan and Ronald Reagan who brought them back right and Ronald Reagan would stay in for two terms and that what that would lead into of course the bush and and his son I mean Clinton and then the Clinton is but you're right that that that was unfortunately would overshadow and really put acts of President Nixon that we would remember him more like the opening of China you know and so forth and in foreign policy that he was engaged in Mao Zedong Mao Zedong and in a whole Politburo in China loved President Nixon in a strange way they could understand what this domestic was the least like the guy to be friends with China and yet there was he put himself in history but his name is not remembered for that primarily as you said it's remembered for Watergate and I think that's the Russian gate here is going to is going to be what brings Trump down he's trying so hard to avoid that investigation so going back to call me I mean obviously he knows something because he was part of this investigation will he come out and speak you think very good question very good question because I mean he's not dissimilar from the deep throat guy that I mentioned earlier who lives either right now in the Trump administration or was in the Trump campaign and who is out there Ray I'm telling you it's not a surprise it's not magic he's out there he knows what happened and he could bring this administration down frankly I wouldn't want to be him because Trump knows who it is Trump knows all the people he knows who's likely and who's not likely I wouldn't want to be this guy of course not because nobody likes a title tell and a snitch as you know in prison or in the society and also that the president like Nixon puts a premium on loyalty on loyalty to him to the but I see that not only as a this Nixon nasc or Trumpist kind of you know value there are many people in the corporate world or government that are like that and they would have you know are you loyal to me I don't care what you do in for work but build that power that's right and it's unfortunate that there are many organizations that run on that that kind of criteria for for working there but the crazier Trump gets the more wild things he does obviously he's alienating some of the Republicans already now it's been happening little by little but now I think it's more in the open he's also going to scare these people who have the inside information and they're not going to see the necessity for loyalty matter of fact you know they're going to turn the other way and they're going to see the necessity historically of bringing this information to the fore but your question was call me right is call me going to reveal this right well he may not know yet he may only have suspicions I mean the FBI investigative process doesn't move that fast he may not have any confirmed information he may have the same thoughts that you and I have and he may believe there's a deep throat in there somewhere but whether they found him or not I guess they're looking really hard but comey is the kind of guy if you look at that 60 minutes segment who I don't think he would reveal this he would see it as his his duty even after leaving office of not revealing what he learned in a confidential setting although you know what works against that is the kind of remarks he made about Hillary Clinton that works against that so it's not entirely clear what he will do but he's a free bird now a free agent I wonder if it's against the law for call me to speak publicly very good investigation that he is super that's right now in the open and usually when you leave organizations you sign a kind of agreement that you know you hold everything secret what you what you knew and won't take it to another organization call me to me it's an interesting character also is that he from the time he was in college he's very philosophical he studied philosophy and he's very strong Catholic also yeah so these remember in Nazis Germany and and other countries people who were against the regime and were strong Catholics interestingly religious that they saw that they couldn't be loyal to a person of the material world but they had a you know distinct relationship with with with God through the church so I think he's very principled yeah that's what I'm trying to get through he's very principled and I don't know if it's the law the custom I just don't expect that he's because it's so hot he's not going to come out with this right that doesn't mean that somebody else who was involved in the investigation in the FBI won't come out with it and it doesn't mean the FBI you know if it finishes a report won't come out with that report but the biggest question in town ray is will the next director be compromised you know if you were Donald Trump I hate this part of it if you were Donald Trump you would select the next director on the basis of whether you could compromise him and have an understanding maybe a dinner with or without a tape recorder working it's loyalty loyalty to the president leader and because as a leader you really believe you're doing the right thing we have to understand that right but you have to understand that all leaders believe that they're doing the right thing for the society organization and so forth and so and they come in with their own principles very much people say oh this person has no person no there are principles that guide leaders be perverse though but guide leaders and there are people who want to execute or implement the leaders programs and you see that in any organization but you're but I'm trying to say this that I think that a person who may rebel against this or may have insights to all this and come outside is a person of deep religious faith to me that's what I'm trying to say yeah and you can have many people most people who are not deeply religious go about their daily life without thinking about about religion or God or faith or something but a person deep religious faith feels that he's it's impossible to live impossible to live one's life by by by really destroying the principles that they're standing on the morals of their faith it's a hierarchical that's right and so I think what I hear you saying is that Trump is going to pick somebody who is like that he's going to pick somebody who will be loyal to him no matter what you know blind loyalty and who in the process is going to kill that investigation so the truth never comes out about Russia and that to me is a fair likelihood because I think if I were Trump if you were Trump what would you do you would try to kill the investigation this guy has the keys to the investigation try to get somebody in there who will not continue the investigation so many ways you could screw up an investigation in the public mind that also you know within the agency so that it never actually gets finished and I think this this football could be kicked around the field for three and a half years well it's it will be interesting to have a same discussion five years from now and see what did this Mr. Komi symbolize you know in history what does that impact the beginning of the end or just a part of many things that would be part of history and again we don't really remember in Watergate you saw you know the turning of certain people like a John Dean and so forth and that accelerated the whole whole downfall of that administration is Komi the one or there are others that will make Komi you know who's that you know oh yeah he was fired but there's other people who came out of the woodwork in the next year or two years that really have much more greater historical impact yeah and I think up till now up till a few weeks ago well up to the remarks he made about Hillary Clinton that made him pretty popular or famous not popular seems to me that he was a sort of the gray suit he was a federal prosecutor federal investigator nobody you know in the community really knew who this guy was but now he has emerged and now 60 minutes or otherwise he is known in the minds of most Americans for the guy who Trump fired and firing of course is out of the apprentice from back you know firing is what Trump likes to do but remember Archibald Cox went through that special prosecutor fire and people of our age and so forth do remember that Saturday massacre that was you know where were you you remember that the kind of right you know at that time just like Kennedy's assassination you know there's some points will we will we remember Komi's firing in that huge I think we will I think Komi is now a piece of American history I think he will be remain remembered for years and years right or wrong but standing up for what he says he believed in and all that and being fired for very questionable reasons but to predict in a minute or two we have left to predict what's going to happen here I don't think he's going to talk publicly about what's going on other people within the agency may find a way to do that or plant information you know how the leak information a lot now who knows maybe we'll be on a wiki leaks who knows keep keep tuned but I think that somewhere and Trump will try to douse this investigation in every way he can he will try to distract us with the most cockamamie things every day and get on the headlines with 27 things that the press buys into before you know they keep going back they should go back to the basic question of what happened with Russia finally I think that somebody will surface I'd like to see it sooner than later but somebody will surface who knows what happened and we will get to see that person too and that person will also be a name in history in this country these are exciting times in fact faithful to our discussion of China these days with you and Russell Lou these are interesting that's a curse we don't know you know there's this unknowability of the future I mean I go back to 1970 when all of Hawaii was doing Hawaii 2000 they were trying to project Hawaii 30 years we can't project in Hawaii three years into the future it'll be more the same but worse you see how depressing that is and this is depressing because as much as we would like to see the truth come out here Ray and this is the point to close on okay we can't be confident that it will ever come out it could be that humanity never finds out what Trump did he's working hard for that and that is a real distinct possibility I hope we find out but there's a possibility we never will never I'm sorry to say well we'll see history you will tell follow the story thank you Ray Ray I'm a informed citizen here on Think Tech Community Matters thank you