 Yn ymgyrch, ysgolwyd yn ymwneud y White's Beckinsfield. White's Beckinsfield yn ymgyrch yng Nghymru yn y Unig, i gael eich sylfa ar y prys. Mae'r prysau o'r cyfnod perfect ar yw, gyda code AG JAMESINGLEISH at checkout, o'r 15% discount ar ôl ymwneud. Gwneud yn cyfrifio gyda White's Beckinsfield. Mae yna ddech chi, yw 7 o'r cyfrifio, ac mae'r cyfrifio yn ymwneud White. Felly mae'n ddweud o'r cyfrifio, ond ond ond ond iton maith. Nid yn argynno ddwy o gydig. Yn ymdanaeth yma. Gydig o bobl y oedd gydig, sefydling! Felly, un o feth! Rhyw ffiltr, rhyw meddwl ffiltr, ac mae'n wedi ddysgu y dyma ychydig気n unexpected. Ychyn ni'n ymdain. Yn mynd. felly rydyn ni'n cymdeithasio ar yr ymgyrch gydag. Rydym wedi bod yn ei gwybod eu cyfrifio'r hogwch yn y cyfrifio. A mae'r gweithio'n meddwl o'r partii, ymgyrch yn ei gwybod i'r rhan o'r gwahanol, a'r gwahanol i'r meddwl i'w dda i. Rwy'n ei gwneud o'r gweithio, yn gwneud o'r ballach o'r wahanol. Ond rydyn ni'n ei gweithio? Yn y pryd, rydyn ni'n ei gweithio. ac fe wedi cael ip Wart Naol ac yn ôl iawn, ier o'r ddweud Mae pa pa pa pa Wadwch chi'n ei sbwynt o ddweud mae ei sbwynt o ddweud a ni efo atddai Ac nid yw arno fynd Fe'n ddweud yn dweud ac wedyn iddyn nhw Ac nad oeddwn i ddweud So, mae'r ddweud ydydd fe dynnw yw'r ddech chi'n ddweud Ac oeddwn i ddech chi'n ddweud fe ddweud ddech chi'n ddweud fe ddweud ar yn ymddir fe ddim ddweud Bwm yn y rhan, ac yn y llun o'r ni ddechrau, Gwynssie Write, Gwynsie, how you been? He was all right, just focusing on my work, had a few problems last week, and my grandson stopped breathing. so I don't hear that. He was all right now, but just laughing at him, dancing down. It's a good coming, a good coming to bad. He's got to push on on that, it's a sad dog man. No ffots in my mind of ever changing, cos all the things I was doing is kind of like when I was young, some people's childhood was different, but I was actually trained to do what I'd done when I was young. When I'm being trained, I was raised by one of the most fed gangsters in South London. Everyone knows who he is. His name's Vincent, and obviously that's my stepdad. I love him dearly in it. It's not a thing of all, I've changed. He's an older person now, he sees things different in it. My life under his teaching made me who I am. I can't hate it. I can be mad with my upbringing because obviously I didn't get the upbringing of a normal child, but in the world that we live in, I don't think about his teachings, I'll be here even talking to you now. I could have become another statistic or a victim of the streets or the community that we live in without his guidance and his tutelage, even though he didn't have to actually tell me what to do, it's just that I lived in it. He's got one of the biggest families about. I'll always go back to the start with my guests as well. Quinn say where you grew up and how it all began. I grew up in a place called Kennedon. It's not far from here, it's probably two roads away. That's if you want anybody to know that. It's a place called Kennedon. I was there with my mum. There was a fire, that's what I do remember, and we moved. I think we stayed at our aunts for a while, but my aunts, they came all the way down from Manchester because my mum was in a foster home. So when my aunt came down to England, I mean to London, she brought the sisters with me, which is my mum's a twin sister. We started in Kennedon and then we moved to Clapham. We didn't really have much, but we was happy. That was the last puppy feeling as a kid of happiness that our papa had. My dad suffered from mental health and he had a few situations with my mum and obviously my mum was hiding from him at the time. Right now he's in prison because he killed someone basically. A few years ago he was in a mental institution and he came out into the care and I was going to see him. One day I came back and they just said he killed one of the other workers, one of the other patients in the house. That was only the relationship I had with my dad, my real dad. Obviously he's in Leicestershire prison now and I go to see him now because of the COVID. I'm not able to see him. But then my stepdad came onto the scene and the first thing I remember is gates coming up on our house. Metal door, gates on all windows, fence around the flat. That was the first sign of control because I didn't know nothing about that before. But obviously as I grew older I realised that's how we had to live. If that's how we had to live, that's how we had to live because obviously he's met my mum and what usually happens in that kind of relationship the man takes control. From there that's when my life changed. I didn't notice at first but it was like that is when I started to see the street. I didn't really see it before because I was my mum's son and we had a sister but obviously my mum's first and obviously they protect you from things at a certain time. But then when he came in now I remember every night what I used to have to do was I used to get all the latest movies and I used to film them around 20 times because he's got probably easily over 38 daughters and sons. What? Easily, yeah easily. Probably he's even got more now probably over 40. 40? That's the last time I checked. All his in the community that's why I said he's got a big family. So I've got lots of brothers and sisters and I had to have a copy of all the gangster films from the scar faces to everything you can think of as a gangster flick. I had to have to film them one by one so I'm just a little kid and I'm just watching these films over and over again because I can't do nothing else except for do this. And obviously I end up watching them so that's the first kind of time that I saw visuals of a gangster. And then when I'm watching the Jamaican movies and that's probably what made me go into music also because I used to copy Reggae Sun Splash over and over. So I used to get all the top videos and copy them for all the family. Then after a while what happened is he had a shop in Brixton on the front line. And obviously we live in the same household didn't it? So we go to the shop every day. So when we go to the shop every day you see the order in Brixton that he has. Like you know like the people that come to the shop to pay homage or at the time you don't know what's going on maybe there. Was he fed? Yeah he was very fed. He was the most fed person I've ever seen in my life. And I've been through prison systems and I've never ever seen no one. Did you feed him? Yeah of course everyone did. It was just the policy of being around him. He makes it happen. He makes it like that because he's so serious. I mean I've never met someone that's so serious. And he's so serious that his vibe once he comes in the room he can change your vibe. So if he's happy everyone can be happy. If he's sad everyone's going to be sad. Or if no one's talking, if he don't want to talk there's silence in the room. That's just the energy that he brings. And like I said it's not just, you know some people are just bad in their house. Like he wasn't he was everywhere he went. Like he was in control or control. So the first thing I've seen when it comes to violence would be through him. And obviously it wasn't just a one-off it was over and over again. Because his fingers was, wherever on the front line there's war against the Jamaicans and the English black boys. Obviously he's an English black boy innit. And they're coming into our community with a different kind of attitude. Do you know like before maybe arguments could have been solved by fistfights and stuff like that. But when the Jamaicans came they kind of brought a different viciousness to the community where we was. Because remember the front line is one road. We just got our shop based on the front line. And it's a food shop so all the locals come there. But more than locals it's the English black boys and the English black women that come there. Then obviously there is a few Jamaicans that come there but it's not the hardcore that have just come over from Jamaicans. It's probably like one that's been there for years and they integrated with the English boys. So his thing is was he's defending his turf from them. So that's how I got raised not to be fearful of people or particularly Jamaicans. There are these who kind of try to if you could say it like they try to colonize the community. Because when I say that I'm on about through beatings, shootings, selling drugs, taking women. And obviously he was not going to make that happen. And he had a team of people around him that was able to support him to do that. That's what I grew up in. I grew up in him defending the community from the Jamaicans. So it was a war basically? It was a war, yeah. Were you taking drugs at any time drinking? Who him? No, no, I'm a kid. You're still young at the time? I'm a kid, I'm probably around 6, 7. So you've seen all this for a young age? I've seen all of this. From your dad in prison, from one of the toughest men in London. The tough war with the Jamaicans. Exactly. And your dad? No, my dad's not even prison yet. My dad is in mental institution. How many boys did your stepdad have around him at the time? At that time, what do you mean, sons? Just friends, best friends, uncles, sons. Yeah, couple brothers and two friends, I could say. But it was more about him though. I believe that if he got taken out it would all fall down. I believe that. Obviously he's got people around him but he's the main driving force. If it wasn't for him, brickson would have been a different brickson than what I grew up in. Do you know what I mean? Because like I said, when they were coming over it, it was dried by shooting, stuff like that. And really, we wasn't even really used to stuff like that. Do you know what I mean? It was more things could get sorted out. When they were fighting against them, it's like one action just snobbles. Do you know what I mean? One action, we've all grown up at each other. People can make a phone call to someone's parent or say something and then we can come together and it's squashed. You're my son, you're my son, he's my friend, he's my friend, it's done. But with them, because they don't live in the community either, it was more like hit and run. So it was more like they were coming to our community. You could wake up one morning and come to the office and you hear that Mikey. He's got a shot down the corner and your admin cut him in the face because he didn't serve him when he wanted to be served. You know, like they're the kind of things you could hear in the community. But like I said, if it wasn't for him, we could have been living in a different, I could have got raised in a different time. But he defended it against them and he ran them out of the area. So really after that, it was just what we do with the area. But I got arrested by the time I was 15, so I didn't have the time or the capacity to take over from what he left off because I went to prison at a young age. Did you ever go to school? Yeah, I went to primary school and I went to secondary school for one year. And from that one year, in between that one year, I ended up in children's homes. And from I was in children's home, I didn't go back home ever. What was your stepdad saying when you were going to children's home? Was there a relationship there with home or was it just a free-for-all with these kids? No, basically it was a thing of, I was at home and I was kind of getting involved in a little petty crime. I got a petty crime and then one day was at the police station and I wanted to speak to my mum and the policemen said to me, I spoke to your parents and they said they don't want you to come home. So I said, what do you mean they don't want you to come home? They said they don't want you. They said, you're not going to understand, but what we're going to do is we're going to get social services to come and find you somewhere to live. They don't want you there. So obviously at the time I was angry, but the way I processed it was afterwards is basically you don't want me home because you don't want the police coming to the house. Remember, if I'm making police come to the house, they now know where you live and you don't ever want them to know where you live. That's the reality that I live in. That's how serious life was because even when I used to walk home with him, if we saw anyone that he knows on the estate, we'd run the other way. Because we don't want no one to see that we're in this area. We lived right in the community for when I was at least eight years, because we moved house when we was with him, for around eight years and nobody knew where we lived. My mum's sisters wasn't allowed to the house, cousins wasn't allowed to my house, his brothers, his sisters, no one was allowed to the house. Only we knew where we lived. So when I was getting arrested for petty crime, it was just like, yeah, he's hotting up our empire, you know, that type of stuff. So I was made, I just got, what's that word? What's that word? You know, when you just get discarded basically. Abandoned? Yeah, abandoned, whatever you say. That's owned? Yeah, just, yeah. Our thing is we don't want police at the house. It's a scary environment to be in, in a constituency that you're being dodgy, but you would rather give away your kids to protect your life of crime? In there, in there, in there, in there, I was the bigger picture. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? So that's how I ended up in care. I ended up in care because I kept on doing little petty crime and get arrested and they just didn't want police to come to the house. And how old were you then? Probably around 12. Probably around 12. Where did you, so you were in children's homes just staying in there? What was that like? It wasn't nice at first. It wasn't nice at first because when I first went to children's home, the difference between children's home and being at home, I'd prefer to be at home. So that wasn't nice because you know you missed your sisters because by that time I got two sisters and a little brother. So there's four of us in the house. So obviously I missed them. Yeah. And like, I'm only 12. So you know, being at home and missing your brother and sister is kind of a normal thing. Yeah, but then after a while when I'm at the children's home, I kind of started to run away from the children's home and run back to the community, Brixton. But I wasn't going home. I was meeting up with my friends. Obviously I was in a gang called the 28s at the time. It's a little Brixton gang. And I used to link up with some of them. I used to stay at some of their houses when their parents would allow me. Some people would sneak me through the window, stuff like that. Sometimes I've broken into houses, you know, empty houses and sleep for the night. Norwood bus station. I've gone into the bus station and slept on top of the bus, you know, just for the night. But when I started to go through that, the rough sleeping and that, children's home then felt nice to me. Lockshitty? Yeah, you know what I mean? So like I said, from when I was at my mum's to the children's home, I was unhappy with it. I didn't like it. But after having a bout on the street and trying to rely on friends who... Well, we are young, so it's not like they're letting me down. It's just their parents. I say, no, I don't want them here. Well, bloody, bloody. Then I realised children's home was a decent place. Yeah, we get fed, drift over your heads. Yeah, that's what I thought at the time. So you were homeless as well from ages at 12? Yeah, and then what happened is where my crime started to get a bit more worse, they now remanded me into care. So your family put in your care and you're being remanded into care is two different things. So I'm going to court now. And because I'm going to children's homes and running away, they're saying now, the court is... I mean, the children's home is now responsible for getting me to court. So it's called a custody order, a remanded into custody order. And I had that from me when I was around probably just before I was 13. So if I run away from a children's home, anytime police in Brixton see me, like you all look around, I'm arrested. So it's just like every time I go to Brixton, it's cat and mouse with me and the police every day, every day. And probably that's why I built up my hate for them. Because I'm just a young guy trying to have fun and they're always chasing me. Do you know what I mean? Because obviously, in getting raised by Vincent, you had naturally hate police anyway because police are always on to him. But when you're growing up, you don't know why they're on to him. You're just thinking why are these people always bothering him. But as you get older, you understand because it's him versus them. Is he ever in prison himself? He went prison for a few times, but he didn't get convicted. He didn't get convicted of anything. Yes, everything dropped. So when you got your first prison sentence at 15, was that the YOs? Yes, that was... What was that for? Rubbery. What did you steal? Basically what happened was... What happened was what we've done is... Basically we were doing things like... Basically in shops, particularly off licences, you see the till. If you put your hand underneath, there's a little flick. And three or four of us just go in there, flip the till, and just storm the till. But what's happened is now, through the children's homes and stuff like that, I met other people where I started smoking crack. Crack cocaine. I'm not telling myself I need more money. You just know you need more money. Because now also, even though we're smoking crack, we were in designer clothes. So people in the community, they might think, oh yeah, them guys look like they're making money, but we're not really making money, which is kind of got a front. You know, the designer clothes is like a front, like gold chains and stuff like that, but we're smoking lots of crack. So as that's happening, we start realising that this little money in the till is not going to hold us. So what happened after that was, we started to go into building societies, and you remember the building societies, like Abbey National and the like, they never had no glass. They never had no glass. So we just got brave and started jumping over them. A couple of my friends had been hit in the chin and stuff, but we just started jumping over and it was like every man for their self, so someone could come out of three grand, someone could come out of five grand, the next man might get lucky, come out of 15 grand, but you'd never know because everyone's cheats, and everyone's lies. Yeah, yeah, yeah, no one declares anything. Yeah, in case somebody wanted more. Yeah, do you know what I mean? So it was just like that, and then we was getting arrested for that. In fact, in fact, the first time I went to robbery, I mean I went to jail, it was for theft. But it was the theft of that, of that same kind of type of move. And then because we kept on doing it, kept on doing it and kept on getting bail because it was theft, I went to court one day and the judge and not the judge prosecutor said, no, we're going to change the law because these guys keep on getting bail, and they keep on getting no more than 12 months. So they changed the law because no one was actually going and then touching anybody, they called it steaming. They got us all together, they know that it's those guys on bricks that do this. And went to whatever they went and changed the law from theft to steaming and steaming is covered by robbery. So now we're getting committed to Crown Court instead of saying it in the magistrates. So that was the first time you went to prison? Yeah, so the first time in prison is when we went, I'm a bit cocky now, isn't it? Because I've been to jail, I'm not jail, court so many times for this thing that I'm thinking is theft. But now I've gone to court one day and they've said, yeah, you're getting committed to Crown Court. But obviously as far as I know, you can't get committed to Crown Court on these charges, which is theft and because I'm young, it's going to stay in magistrate. They said, now we've changed it to steaming and steaming this class as robbery. So now everything's started to get serious. Now we're talking about years in prison. We're talking about years now. That's scary. Before it was just mumps. So yeah, that was the first time I went to prison and like I said, now they've changed it to robbery. And I remember the first time I went to prison, they used to have these holding cells. And I can't remember it was, you know. You didn't go straight to prison. You went to these holding rooms and when you're in the holding rooms, you were the adults and everybody. I think that was the most scariest time for me to go to prison. I remember I'm sitting in a room with big guys but that place got closed down. It got closed down. I don't know why it got closed down but it got closed down. So we've gone to Felton. I'm still high on drugs but I ain't got no drugs. So what was it like then when you were high on drugs but you couldn't get them? What's funny is, yeah, you see because we were smoking so much crack, it wasn't like, you know, usually a cat's life is like a cracker. The normal cracker that walks the streets life is basically buy a 20 pound stone, get high, search all day for the next high, beg money and you know like his high comes in bits. He's always chasing the high. When we were smoking, we were smoking like, I don't know, maybe three of us would go half an ounce of crack. And when you're kind of smoking crack like that, it's not like how a cat would feel because I'm smoking till I'm sick and I don't want to smoke no more. So I don't know if that made me when I got to prison not even think about it because I know obviously a normal cat will be clocking. I've seen them banging their doors, they need medication. I never went through that. The only time, the only thing I went through was probably I had sleep and woke up with cold sweats. And I never ever felt like I want a drug. I didn't feel like I was in the environment to even want the drug. Like when you're out and we're getting to clubs and we're with girls and you got money and it just feels like part of that deal. When you're sitting in a cell, there's no way to go. There's no music. Crack's not something that I was thinking about. But obviously my body was definitely craving it. I wasn't actually thinking about it like that. I just think more like I want a spliff or I want a cigarette or something like that. Were you training then? I've been training most of my life because my stepdad made me do boxing. And I was quite good. I got to the ABA quarter finals, all Boxer England, all that type of stuff. But it wasn't what I wanted to do. I wanted to play football. He forced me to do that. But in a weird way, it's a good thing that he did because of the path that I ended up going down. So when I've reached a prison now, I'm confident in my hands. I was confident in my hands when I was on the street. So I was confident in my hands in prison. And I just had lots of fights with lots of people. And I got kind of put up from the young offenders to the adult side, moving a quick kind of period, maybe six months because I was fighting. I was fighting, I was even fighting officers and gym staff and just people that was bigger than me. When I was 15, I was very small. Do you know what I mean? But see like you mentioned before about the legs and I was solid in that and I had a good foundation and I knew how to fight. So when I wasn't scared to fight, I would fight quicker than the next person. Some people might want to talk about it for a while but as soon as something happened or someone said something wrong, I'd hit them straight away to gain the advantage. I'd do that all the time. It's not because that's what I want you to do but that's what I've seen when I've grown up. That's why most fights that I had, I was always on top because like I said, I could fight and I always knew to move first. Especially in prison. There's not too much shouting and arguing. It's got to be the issue of them. Did you feel as if you had to live up to your stepdad's reputation inside prison? Did you have a good reputation inside prison or did you feel as if you had to bulge your name yourself? No, I felt like once I got abandoned, I had to build my name myself. Because I've seen what the level is, being around him, I think it just naturally made me go harder. Not that I made a mental note to go harder than him and things that I've seen, I wanted the same effect. I saw how he had respect and fairer for him. I'd rather you deal with me like that than pretend stuff. I've realised in the pretend stuff that's when people get betrayed, set up and stuff like that. I just wanted it just to be, I don't want no one speaking to me, I don't want no one telling me nothing. I will react to everything. Anything puts my way, I will react to it. I got in a lot of trouble quickly on a wing called K2. I don't know if you've ever heard that. It's in Fulton. It's called the weight unit. Obviously, some guy, he killed himself or something and he named the unit after him. I think he was getting bullied or something. He named the wing after him. I didn't actually bully anyone, but what happened was, because I kept fighting, I just attacked him and then after that, they kind of like moved me to the adult wing. I don't know what it's called, they moved me from the 15-year-old to the 18-year-old wings and then I got convicted. Once I got convicted, they moved me over to a place called Dunlin and Eagle in Fulton. It's the adult's convicted side. I went over there, I had a fight with a guy from the surgery. His name was Danny Mills and he was from my area, actually, Eichelain. He was an older boy, but he was on the surgery and I came to the surgery and I just put my plate there and he just put maybe a few chips. I said, what's that, bro? He just said, move on, man, move on. He was a red band as well. He worked in the gym. He's been there for a few years. He's in there with the officers. Obviously, he said, yeah, go on. They said, yeah, wait, it's going bang up. Anyway, I banged up anyway and then maybe around three days later on, I must have come down the stairs and seen him coming in and there's a TV room under the stairs. So I just said, yeah, come, come, come, come. He's looking at me like I'm a little boy. So he's coming there quickly. We had a quick little skirmish. I've got the better of him anyway. He's punched him up. He's got lots of bruises. I've gone back to myself. And then after, because he's there, boy, I know how they perceived it. You know what I mean? It's like, oh, yeah. It's like four weeks again, starting trouble, bloody, bloody. So I just heard everyone bang up and then you hear the Mufty squad. You can hear them coming down the landing, locking people's landing. And then I think from that time on, I've got Mufty'd. I've got Mufty'd every time they come for me. Like it was like, from there, it was just like, it was constant. So now they brought me to this bully wing. Yeah. And they've told me that, yeah, he's gave a statement basically. I didn't even thought he would have given a statement. So he's a lot of snatch. Yeah, I didn't even thought he would have given a statement because his profile is the big man. Do you know what I mean? And he's from the same area as me. So I didn't thought he would do that. I think that's because of the reputation you were getting and because of your stepdad. What, why he jeed me up? Yeah. Now I reckon he probably jeed me up because remember, yeah, I've assaulted the officer, the SO, and they're really out for me from then. So where he's in there with them, I think they've told him to write this because remember that they want me on that wing. Yeah, so that was an excuse for them to move. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then he probably got a nice little ship out to a cosy prison, you know, out of the way. Cush your job in the jail. Yeah, no, no, I need to see his bruises on his face. He can just cut out and just, I think they'd probably done a deal. When you're young, you don't know that, but you know after understanding how prison works, it makes sense, that's what happened. Do you know what I mean? So I went to this bully wing now and on this wing, how can I put it? The space between the cells is around as long as that's at it. I mean as wide as that's at it. Or this table, just a bit more wide. So your cells are at the end of that and our cells are at the end of this corridor. And outside the corridor, there's a blue box. And when that cell opens, you've got to come out yourselves. Don't ever go past that blue box and say your name and your number. As that door opens, you've got to run out quickly. If that officer gets to the end of that corridor and all of you are in that square, in your gym kit and saying your name, if you point sheet in your hand, you're going to lose points. And you can get off this wing within five weeks. Bear in mind, but no one ever does. Why? Because down there, they pretend like they're there to help you become better, but they're not, they're torturing you. Do you know what I mean? So you can lose points for the simplest things because you're not allowed to talk down there. You're not allowed to speak at no time unless you're speaking to them. They don't want to hear no talking out the window. If they hear you whispering out the pipe, you just hear your door knock. Point sheet under the door. You lose 500 points. And you're supposed to be gaming. I think you can, you can't lose, you can't lose more than 2,000 in a week for you to get up to level 1.2 and then it's level 2, then it's level 2.1 and it's level 2.25 and then you're off. How many points do you need to get out? You can't lose no more than 2,000 points every week. So if you did lose 2,000 points in one week, did you stay there an extra week? You just dropped back down to the bottom. So if I went to... So if you were on level 3 and you got 2,000 points, you're back down to zero again? You're back down to zero, you're back down to zero. And that's how it is for everybody. There's no favouritism or nothing. When you're working your way up, they expect you to be advancing. So that's what they say. So if you get to level 2, that means because you've grown. If you do something stupid, that means you haven't grown. So we're going to put it back to the bottom. So we go straight back to the bottom. Did you ever get to level 3 and then the fact you're straight back? Never. Because what kept it happening to me is I kept on... For the first few weeks, I tried. And then it was stupid things like you come in my soul and because they do spell inspection, and you know, anything, it could just be... If they don't want you to come up to a wing, they're going to wipe something. They're knowing it. You know that some real thing. Dust or something. Yeah. So yeah. Look at that. 250 points straight away. You're not allowed nothing in your soul. So if you want anything, you have to apply in the morning and you know the medicine things, but they put the medicine in from the parcel, from the hatch. You can have that with shower gel, that with soap, toothpaste. You can't have everything. You can never have your things. If you want biscuits, they'll give you free biscuits, wrap it in tissue. Like, if you want juice, they'll fill up the bottom of your juice like that. You know, just to the bottom there. I'll know all of that line. And that's you for the day. Do you know what I mean? Did you lose weight in there? Yeah, 100%. 100%. Also when they're feeding you, they're giving you the basic. You know, like if you're using a wing, you can get extra chips or extra bread. There is no extras down there. It's just basic. And if you don't like what they're giving you, just don't eat it. Did that make you more angry towards therefore that you're thinking, this is just torture? Yeah, definitely. But at the time, I didn't realise I was getting more angry towards them because the life that I've been living has been kind of, I've always been kind of controlled whether it's from my stepdad to the children's arms, to the courts, to prison, and then now to a different level of control from these people. So it wasn't just controlled from, I wasn't getting, I didn't need to get angry because the police are controlling me or the government's controlling me. It's because I've always been controlled one way or the other. So I'm more getting angry of still being controlled. Not being controlled by police or being tried by the government. I don't think my resentment for them was building up as fast as it could until I got into my second sentence because by then I go around to all these other prisons and I'm getting treated the same. Nothing's different and it's getting worse. But as for that unit, what happened to me when I was on that unit, I made a conscious decision that I'm not getting off this wing. So where I'm not getting off this wing, I'm just going to have fun. And when I'm going to have fun, I don't mean to have fun as in like a party, but if I want to talk to someone, I'm going to talk to them. If I want to have a fight with someone, I'm going to fight them. And I just done what I wanted to do down there until it come to the day where the governor phoned the prison, I mean phoned the unit and said, yeah, just take him off the wing. He ain't going to change. And they put me on some wing called albatras. Albatras is like a therapeutic wing and I was there for a month while he was assessing me to see if I was in my right frame of mind. Psychotic? Yeah, they were trying to see if I'm... because I'm not conforming to their... Roads and regulations? Yeah, and they're looking at it like I'm disturbing what they're trying to do down there. Because remember there's other people down there that... are working for it, doing what they're told. Yeah, and then you can hear me go, yo, send me a risvo! Send it to me! Did I mean? And they can hear that, they don't really want to talk. But he's talking to them, he's drawing them out. So they said, yeah, get him off. So I went to albatras, stayed there, they got TVs in their cells and everything, albatras. I thought, yeah, I was actually happy at the time. Because in that K2, you don't have music, you don't have nothing. Most you can have is a book. Or if the screw is happy with you that day, you might just put the newspaper under your door. You know, if you think you've been chilling out or you've been behaving. And how old were you then? 16. So that's like solitary confinement basically, at such a young age? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just after I got my sentence, so after I got sentence I got put in that unit. So I was on albatras, done the assessment, they realised I was okay. And then they moved me to someplace called Ellsbury. Now Ellsbury, that was like for all. Ellsbury's like the dispersal of why or was. So it's just like long life and full time, all in one prison. Manchester, London, Birmingham, all the kids that do serious crimes and even people that do murders. Cos there was one guy in there that looked like Chucky. You know Chucky? Yeah, he looked like Chucky. But he had glasses. Wasn't Scottish by any chance? No, he wasn't Scottish. And he, I swear, he's one person that I was wary of. And the thing about him is, he didn't talk to nobody. He just came out himself, watched TV. And you dare not turn over the TV when there's watching the TV. Because he's just got this look. But the thing is, he was softly spoken. But his old energy, cos you know he was in there for doing a madness, you knew just leave him alone. Yeah, cos he could snap. And no matter how everyone's running around talking about their killers and their dis and their shooters, he really is. And he's not bragging or bolting about it. He's just sitting in a corner like, don't mess with me. Do you know what I'm saying? So everyone avoided him. That's one guy I do remember. So we're in this dispersal of why or why. And with everybody else, you're from London, you're from Manchester, you're from Birmingham and everyone just holds their corner. The only time it kind of overlaps is if there's beef. So I kind of learned from then about, you know, territorial kind of behaviours. Do you know what I mean? But at the same time, I've been trained by someone who's survived all of that already. So it wasn't nothing that worried me. I just got stuck in and fight it and I fight it and I fight it and I fight it and I fight it and I fight it. And then they sent me to Portland. If you had a Portland. So Portland, when I went there, it was a different setup again because I think me and one next black boy called Oki were the only black people there. And this is like, it was full of some, it was full of a gang called the Rondon Valley Skinners. I remember them clearly. When you go in the shower with them, they got the NF tattoos, the swore stickers. I remember one had a black man getting hanged under his armpit. What? Yeah, right there. Right there. When you shower, you're seeing all of this in it. And they're all muscly. They're all unsteads in that. So the situation seems very daunting. Do you know what I mean? So I was in there. This is coming to the end of my sentence. So it's not really somewhere you want to be towards the end of your sentence. Was it intimidating? Yeah, it was very intimidating. Because remember, it's just them and me. I don't know no one else in the prison. Did any of them try to test you? Yeah, we're going to get there. We're going to get there. So what happened is that there was this other black guy called Oki. He was totally broken in it. He was broken. I got there before. He was broken. So I already know he cannot be no ally. Do you know what I mean in this situation? So I just kept my head down. Do you know what I mean? I just kept my head down and just tried to cut through. And then one day we were sitting down in the TV room. So the TV room's here and then there's an alleyway and the officers sit on their high chairs so they can see in the TV room. But there's a TV room on that side and the TV room on that side so they're looking at both TV rooms. That's what association is. And at the end there's a snooker table. So they're looking at both of these areas so they can watch anything. But obviously everyone gets laxie daisy sometimes, isn't it? So we're sitting down and I remember on the telly was have you seen Mike Tyson? Not the documentary, like the movie they made by Tyson. Have you seen that? Yeah. That was on the TV. That was on the TV so I'm watching this now. And there's this mixed race guy. Now he's black or white depending on what day you woke up and what the advantage is. Do you know what I mean? Cos when I speak to him by myself, yeah. He's Matthew. He's the first man running. He's the first man running. I thought I even forgot his name. But I remember we was in the TV room and we was watching this Tyson. And he's saying, yeah, where, where, where? I'm like, bro, be quiet. My man's just trying to watch the film. He's saying, no, he does this and he does that. Cos he's seen it already, isn't he? He's just been quiet. And then I remember the guy's name, Russ. Russ, Rondon Valley Skinners. Bear in mind they ain't got all skinners. Someone that got their hair in that. But that's what they called Russ. Now Russ is a hench guy. He's fully on stage. He's turned around and he said, shut your fucking mouth. Like that. You know, in the Welsh accent. And my man went, fuck it up. I said, see, I told you. I told you, shut up. And my man turned around and he said, you shut your fucking mouth as well. I'm like, what? I said, I was telling him to be quiet. He said, shut up. I said, brah. And then the mixed race guy said to me, fuck you. Don't. You know what he's saying? Don't. Just don't. Remember, you've been talking like you've got my back. So you're saying don't like, I don't want to have to do this. You got what I'm saying, but he didn't want to do anything. He's just scared for me and probably scared for yourself. Yeah. I was sitting down and I was thinking about it. But I've been thinking about not just this situation. Noftime is even like when I'm walking past a pool table and I said, fuck that nigga. Yeah. He had them talking under their breath. And it's always the, there was a little one, a young one, and he was the main antagonist. You know, like the smallest guy was the like, he kept on fucking back. You know what I mean? You hear these things, yeah. But I just sat there that day and I just thought, everything just came to me. I just said, you know what, fuck this. And I got up. I said, yo, come to the toilet. He said, what? I said, yeah, come to the bath, not the toilet, to the shower. Got a shower. Once you come out left, shower's at the end. So I said, yeah, yeah. I said, bro, I said, bro, it worked as well. Stop making noise because you're trying to make the officers see what's going on. You see that, it bothered him a lot because he's thinking, you ain't posting me that component. You're supposed to want to make noise so the officers can see in it. I'm saying, bro, just go to the toilet. Yeah. It is in come. So he went there but when he went there, bravo, bravo, bravo, bravo, bravo. 10 man go up with him. I'm like, whoa. I see 10 man go up with him. I'm like, fucking hell, what have I done? Yeah. So they've gone out. Yeah. And obviously they've walked past the officers. You know, like nice and neat, yeah. And obviously the officer's not thinking out. And he's probably just reading his newspaper in it. The lads going to the shower. So, yeah, I'm thinking, bro, all the men are going to move to me here when I go in there. And then they was like, because obviously they can still see it in the window. So as they come out, they said, I said, yeah, fuck it. I said, fuck it. I was scared though, but I said, fuck it. Because I was thinking, you know, I'm tired of being there as well. Getting buried. Yeah, with the racism. Men all torture. And I'm in my soul and I'm thinking, what's going to happen today if something can happen today? Am I going to get stabbed in my back? Do you know what I mean? And some of the officers were horrible as well. Do you know what I mean? So... But they racist to well do you? Yeah, some of them were. Do you know what I mean? Like, one time I went to the block down there and as I got through the block, the thing is there, the block's different because you've got to go down. You've got to go down three stairs and as you go down three of the stairs, there's some doors but they're wooden. They just open up like a trap door. So what if it's the officer that's with you? Either you can walk down the stairs or they push you down the stairs. Yeah? And I remember when I got pushed in, the officer said, get in there you black bastard. You get me? And once I got in there, through the doors, bam, the officer slapped me straight in my face. I went to, you know like to, you know like your body just naturally wants to defend itself but I didn't even get to defend myself because by the time he botched me in my face and I went, there was like officers behind me bam bam on the floor. Do you know what I mean? And I heard comments and that. Do you know what I mean? But by then, I'm still used to it. So it's not even a thing that's you know like shocking me or anything. Like I've heard that from officers in Felton. So because I'm in this racist jail, them talking like that, that's not bothering me because in my mind I just think that all these officers are like that. Do you know what I mean? So that never shocked me. It's just kind of more the youths that shocked me. Do you know what I mean? Because I never, I never ever felt racism like that in my life. I used to go to boxing matches around the world, well, not around the world, around the country and used to see looks but you know you used to hear nothing. Do you know what I mean? You could see like a, like if all them guys don't like you because of who you are because you've never met me before so I don't know why you don't have a feeling of me. So you know they've got a problem. You could feel the vibe anyway but nobody says anything. Yeah, but sometimes, sometimes you go around to these places, these places used to see black people. So sometimes that's what it is. You know what I mean? At times when you're young it's all, it's a bit daunting and confusing and scaring. But as you get older and you go around the country you realise some people just ain't used to seeing black people and sometimes they don't know how to approach them. They only see them on TV and when you're in their presence they don't know how to deal with you. Do you know what I mean? So in my mind when I was young I was thinking there's racism but sometimes you're led to believe it's racism because sometimes when people don't know if it's something not used to something they act standoffish. I do. If I'm not used to something I'm not used to seeing it. I'm a bit wary of it, innit? It's like dogs. I don't like dogs. If I see a dog, you know, you could tell me you're the nicest dog in the world. I don't care. Cos I've been bit by a dog. Do you know what I mean? So the fear's there? Yeah, so it's there. Do you know what I mean? So sometimes it's always there because you'd felt the racism everywhere you've went, every prison you know it's there and you're always wary of it. Yeah, but I'm saying as I was growing up until I got to boxing matches I didn't understand what racism was. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. So obviously when I'm when I'm going back to my home I'm saying, you know, people they're going to tell me like me they're just racist. Do you know what I mean? It's as simple as that and you think oh that's why they're acting like that but sometimes like I said by growing up you realise sometimes it's not even racist it's just that they're not used to you. Do you know what I'm saying? And that's why sometimes the feeling when I was young or fought in it was racism wasn't racism it was just they're not used to seeing they're not used to black people in that part of the country because there is some places where black people just don't live. This is England. It's scary to think that 2020 and things seem to be taking a turn for the worst again. It's never went away let's be honest it's never went away but it's scary to think that people judge people through colour even religion even where you're from in a world of different countries it's fucking nuts. Yeah and sometimes it's not even none of those things sometimes it's just being able to think for yourself people can be hateful or turn against you you know for having a having a different way of thinking you know for being yourself or being you some people can also I don't know if it's not racism or discrimination it's something that you can be your own person and people will still hate on you for some kind of reason. Of course we're all judgment we're all judgment we're all judge we're all in a weird world where being unique and being shown individuality people are scared of that people want to all be in the same box if you don't follow my rules I will force all my my powers on you because what I think is right when really we all think definitely there's not two humans on this planet is the same. So see when you were doing that with the 20 get the 10 boys fighting what happened. So basically now I've walked out the room and then obviously the officers are there in it on the side I'm thinking oof 10 of them do I go in there or I just tell the officer I want to go to my room do you know what I mean because this is the last chance you're going to get do you know what I mean once you walk past them officers that's it but I just walk past them I just walk past them and I walked into the shower when I walked into the shower it was steamy you know that steam I remember it was steamy and then I was holding the door and then the door shut and then when you go in the shower there's a cubicle there not a cubicle like a big square and then that big square it's just like some sinks in a toilet and then through here there's like a door here with no door you know that's a space of a door you go through there and then that's the shower yeah and it's a big square and I've got in there now and I've got in there now these motherfuckers are taking their tops off you know what I'm saying there's already guys in the shower already yeah they're already in the shower you know like naked you know just showering up showering up and then there's a blockage in the in the shower so it's like the water's not fully going you know through the drainage so where it's not fully going through the drainage the water is around this high like a puddle yeah like a puddle isn't it yeah right so these guys are taking off their tops but it's I thought they were taking off their tops I thought they were taking off their tops because they were all going to do me in yeah but they were taking off their tops because they wanted to get in the shower as well yeah but then this one guy the guy Russ yeah he took off his top and then when he took off his top now like the whole the whole of the shower opened up and they've created like a circle yeah and he's in the middle going come on come on you know like a boxing stance and I'm thinking I might be able to win this if you want to do boxing you know what I'm saying so we got in there started started you know like flicking them out flicking them out flicking them out and then he tried to hold me and when he tried to hold me I could feel how strong he was to get me yeah and I didn't really want to be in that situation yeah so we got out started finging in again and then I said you know I'm going to have to go for it you get me so I gave him a combination and when I hit him I saw his eye you know just bust just fully bust and then it bust and then it started to close yeah so I'm they're saying now come on Russ Welsh power get him Welsh power yeah that's what they say I remember Welsh power yeah and they're shouting there's lots of them there's at least there's at least 20 people in the shower now because there was something there before and you can hear all this Welsh talk come on Russ but I'm trying to talk to him and I'm saying rush I know you don't want to fight because his face is kind of fucked to get me and he's a bit dizzy I'm saying you don't want to fight me and he's looking at me I know he don't really want it and see because I because I know he don't really want it here I don't really want to mash him up do you know what I'm saying I know now you're in here because of your ego but you're in here now because of these guys do you know what I'm saying so I'm looking at him and I'm saying Russ don't and then he just said so what I done is when he done all that I just stood to the side I went bang and he dropped again so I went over him and as I went over him the only thing I remember is I woke up on my back you know in that first room you know the room before you get into the shower I woke up and the officer was going wait what happened that's all I remember so as I went over him one of them put me in the sleeper and that's all I remember do you know what I mean but the next day no one gave me any grief the jail no respect then which I was surprised about yeah cos I thought yeah the next day is going to go off they're going to move to me but then there's this neck remember I told you the black guy was called Ogie there was this next guy called Ogie yeah but he seemed to be a top man in the in the Welsh side yeah he came to me he came to my door he said yeah no one's going to trouble you bloody bloody and that was the end of it after that I got a job on the servery and there's this guy's name was Mr Richard's he was an Asian man but what he used to do is I think he hated them you know the racist ones so what he used to do is when I was on the servery when any of them come past them you know what that he used to make jokes like yeah and if you have anything to say I'll get freaks to punch you up I'm thinking fucking nothing yeah I'll fucking say shit like that mate do you know what I mean I've seen it before don't say stuff like that mate you're getting me in trouble mate I thought that was only in like American Jews like the White Brotherhood and shit no no no no no the Rondon Valley Skinners trust me you probably could get an interview one of them guys one day the Rondon Valley Skinners fucking hell so why did you get put in that prison was that too for that to happen do you think maybe because like I said on my record I've had offices and when they see stuff like that and you go to prisons they're always just they're ready for you so anything you do won't go under the radar it will all get noted down and the patterns because when I look for my records all I've had for the records is he's anti what is it? anti-authority I've had that from young but it ain't that anti-authority it's just that remember I've been controlled for so long innit you know like say for my like a loose cannon yeah so I just keep rebelling tell me this then so when you went to that prison every other prison you fought the screws you fought every day when you went to that prison did you fight any screws? no so it worked basically do you know what I mean though because you've not got all your friends again that guy you were fighting on the shiver he's been it sounds like me is peer pressure to go and do that as well when he doesn't want to do it so if you're in the prison as well maybe people know your stepdad heard about your dad as well you've got to kind of live up to that hype as well so if you took out the environment then it's a case of wait a minute this is new I need to adapt I need to adapt it's true so yeah it's fucked up though yeah and how old were you then? as I was coming out of there I was probably around 17 as I came out of Portland that was my first sentence my mum picked me up from from prison with my arm how was your relationship with your mum at that time? at that time it was getting better cos she wasn't with him no more so it was just like how it should have been without him controlling everything that's been going on in our life so yeah we started to get more son and motherly bouda bond yeah do you know what I mean and anywhere I went to prison my mum would always come and visit me she's the one person I could rely on do you know what I mean she'd send me money every month she'd send me stuff in the post CDs that's the one person that I could say had my back that's the one that's always there when the shit hits the fan not the boys you've got with not anybody else's mother on it that has to do the sentence with you so when you were 18, 19, 20 you were still in prison were you just getting moved about constantly? so basically I came out after my mum picked me up I was living at home and then what happened is I just got caught up in rubries again the same rubries we were doing before I started doing them and then started smoking crack I basically started to go to all the name brand parties and just being around now I've got even a bigger name after coming out of prison and doing all of that so I've come out of prison I tried to live up to that i.e. drugs, clothes, parties I wasn't really fighting anymore after they're fighting part of me it's been established are you tired of it? no I wasn't I was up for it but there wasn't really any contenders at that time you know what I mean? oh proceeds when we've done the jail circuit so now your name's kind of you know everybody that's told you yeah from north, east, west or south do you know what I mean? so it was more of just get this money and look like you're making money kind of vibe but then within five, six months I was back in prison again so I went back to prison for rugby got a five years and came out when and that prison centre was was probably nearly the same as that one because in my mind I was coming back out not to change my life I was just coming back out to carry on with my criminal career but this time I made a mental note that I would never smoke crack again that's the one thing I've done what was your turning point at that moment? I don't know because I used to smoke crack because it was cool because I saw my elders doing it but then by the time I got to because I think I was around 20 then by the time I came out from my second centre by the time I got to that age my elders, I haven't seen them for years so there was no influence on them I think it was just of me being in prison so many times and wanting something different because I said yeah that's what I said I would never do the rubies and I would never smoke crack that's what I made the mental note so when I came out and there was hardly any money when people were telling me to come on rubies I said nah I'm alright, I'm good but then what happened is my sister was going out with someone I knew called Tipsy and he had basically the greatest phone line ever they called them county lines this was just in Camden and it was like ten guys lines in one this phone line has no word of a lie it could be made around seven grand a day every day it's not even 24 seven it's 10 to 10 and then he gives someone the phone for a night shift and charges them do you know what I mean five bills anyone who's worked a night shift but from that 10 to 10 10 to 10 there's going to be at least seven grand of cash going through your hands easily so he told me yeah you can have that do you know what I mean he said I'm chilling out for a while mean your sister's going to do what we've got to do so I was doing that for a little while but then what happened is we kind of like cos we had the line we was able to control the prices of drugs in the community you know like people who want to buy things like ounces and stuff so because we had the line making so much money just say you had a kilo and you bought it for 20,000 just say that now I bought a kilo for 20,000 too but I've got a phone line that makes me seven grand every day so now what I'm going to do is I can take losses on my kilo you can't you know because of the line so what we've done is drop the price of the ounces cos you're only selling them for 650 I'm selling them for 450 cos I can balance it out with the phone line so you see that when we've done that we just thought that was a great business idea I've been on to us all the other drug dealers wasn't happy do you know what I mean but we didn't know that at the time we were just doing what we thought was alright for us didn't we, we're men we can do what we want you know that kind of vibe wasn't thinking about the rest of the community or anyone else so once that kind of filtered down a lot of hate has started to appear but we couldn't see them cos we was just in our own bubble so what happened is now is people around us also started to get jealous cos they wasn't reaping as much benefits as we was so with that people around you start talking to them people and they start coming to the agreements so one day what happened was my friend he was talking about he goes out with my sister he phoned me cos he see me me and my friends but I still mind my own business you have my sister I know he's using my sister so your family isn't it so they're doing what they're doing but me on a day to day basis I've got the phone I'm not really hanging around with anybody I'm just doing what I'm doing my workers etc so he's phoned me one day and he said to me yo come and meet me now I said bro I'm working and I know he he's a man if he gets complaints from the customers saying oh yeah they never had no this or they never had that when I phoned up he's going to be angry innit yo bro that's what he said the line is supposed to work like McDonald's we're not supposed to be short of anything if they come and they don't if it keeps happening you're going to get sacked off the line innit so if he's telling me to forget the line and come and meet him now and it was serious innit so I've come and met him now I've come and met him in a place called Cambor it's in South London it's not far from it's not far from Brixton see the front line where I told you my dad used to be it's one straight road from Brixton you go to Cambor the Nandos is at the end right in the corner so I pulled up at the Nandos before I pulled up at the Nandos he told me what happened he said oh bro he said reds that was some guy that was hanging around about us has basically took something off some people and and he's disappeared said okay so what's that got to do with you cos obviously reds is around us but reds is not your friend reds is your friend's friend and he's from Bristol so you ain't bringing reds around us so that's not our business but you see cos I'm so confident in in myself and my upbringing I've realised there's people out here that can't make them decisions like that you know like someone puts that to you like what's that got to do with you some people start thinking raw it might affect me because I don't want people to think cos I'm around them that I'm anything to do with it but you're always going to get that but I haven't got time to think like that like if I'm not involved in something I'm just not involved in it if I am involved in it you're going to know I'm involved in it but some people around us ain't got the strength or the confidence to tell someone that's none of my business do you know what I mean because I don't know maybe you were scared of them when they were growing up and stuff like that but I've never had to feel like that when I was growing up because of my stepdad do you know what I mean so my friend being kind of wary of people made him not make a decision for himself he made it cos he was a bit scared so after him and these guys had a meeting he went to go with them to look for his friend because they said we want the stuff back and if we don't get the stuff back you are involved they didn't say that to me because these people are from my area but they said it to him obviously because they know they used to go to school with him maybe they had some kind of fear over him or whatever so as they finished the meeting he was walking off with them I said to him bro where are you going what are you going to do I said to my friend these are the same guys that have been hating on you for years forget them I'm confident enough to say that he said to me so we went about our business the next day now some girl phoned me who I used to go out with who know girls out with my friend's friend phoned me and said are you going out tonight I'm like cos we go out every friday what do you mean am I going out tonight he said are you going out tonight I said yeah why he said okay I phoned you back cos the last time you was at my house I told you I can't have you phoned in my phone no more cos I got a new thing around me innit and you keep phoned in my phone and that was the last time I saw you innit and that was that same house where I'm going to explain to you what happens now so after she asked me am I going out she said yeah I said yeah and I said to my friend Rah she just phoned me and said am I going out forget that anyway get me forget that forget that anyway let's go out so now but that reds guy he's actually in our house he was it's me reds and tipsy and bugsy so we've gone out the house now I walked out the house I've seen like a beam bright beams come onto me and then another bright beam came onto me across the road so what I'd done is I don't know what I'd done I just thought quick I ran over to a bush and I was getting something out of the bush and as I done that move they just went and they drove off I sat back in the house and I thought no not know where we live obviously that girl knows where I live and what I found out is the guy that she was going out with he's been giving information to them to the other side remember when I said there's people around you that are more wary of them people so they start they start infiltrating so they come out of the trouble so basically he started giving them information to show them I'm not with these lot do you know what I mean you get what I'm saying man so that's what he done and he kept on giving them information but somehow by the grace of God we kept on getting away but we kept on getting away but then one day because we kept on getting parties and as we come out the parties remember we're high on that but not high of cracker anything sometimes we'd be taking a bit of MDMA could be getting garage-raving MDMA, champagne, weed and every time we come out the parties cars are pulling up and shooting at us it's just about getting away so I just said to one day I said do you know what I'm not having this normal innit forget it so one day I just bought I bought Uzi I think I paid around five grand for it and I got it and I put it down and I was just chilling at my mate Ashlyn's house in King's Cross King's Cross was near Camden so it was a perfect little situation for me and I could just go to her house still make money bloody bloody and I'm sitting down on the sofa one day and I remember specifically it's the day of what carnival was it Luton Carnival I think it was Luton Carnival it was the day of Luton Carnival it was in May and I was sitting down and I said to myself if anyone phones you today don't go out I remember saying it to myself don't go out I remember I had the thing parked behind behind the cupboards she didn't even know it was in her house it was parked behind her cupboard but by this time the reason I'm staying at her house is because Tipsy and my friend Maniac they've been chased by police and they threw a gun at the window and they found drugs at one of his addresses so they're already in jail so I'm thinking right it's me out here by myself and my mate Bugsy so the flat that we was in I moved out of it and witnessed the thing that that girl is at King's Cross so I'm there now and like I said they said I said to myself don't go out as that phone call as I said that to myself I got a phone call he said bro I got my bike, my motorbike let's ride out, let's look for these guys because obviously they've been to his house put the shotgun through the door and you know like pull the trigger you know when he's hostile that he's staying out so he was kind of you know like we need to do something otherwise these people are getting onto us do you know what I mean so he's come to look for me now got in the back of the bike and I've got the Uzi but I've got like a bandana tied around it you know around the I forgot what it's called you know the stock the thing you unfold it and you put it under there I had like a bandana so I had a bandana under my arm and I had to put the thing over my chest you know so when I'm on the back of the bike the person behind me can't see it so I was just riding like that so he was riding through the whole of South London everywhere looking for these guys anyone connected to them we didn't find no one were you going to kill people at that stage I did I was furious they shut up a car with my sister in it I've had my sister crying my friend Tipsy's come downstairs he's been chased I've been chased out of excess amount of parties so in my mind these people are trying to kill me so I'm going to be trying to kill them kill or be killed? yeah that's how it felt at the time so I'm just driving around looking for them and then what happens is we're driving down a road I think it's called Milford Road it's in Brixton this is all lug by the way this is all lug this is all normal stuff driving down Milford Road and there's a girl that we know and I stop I said have you seen any of them guys? she said no but be careful then why be careful because a lot of people are talking about you I said okay so as I've left I've took a left and I'm driving past my cousin's house and I see a group of guys outside my cousin's house so I'm thinking wow is this them you get me? so as we drew past I pulled off my motorbike helmet and as I pulled off the motorbike helmet police vans pulled up we sat right behind us so I just put the motorbike helmet on and I said yo bugsy drive so he's drive we've shook off the feds but then he doesn't live far from where he was and he said he had a car outside his house so we thought let's get off the bike and get into the car because obviously the police are looking for the back so we got into his car now and as we got into his car it was a rental I got into the car it was like a black aster got into the car and I looked into the rearview mirror and I said bro take your I saw his bike light on still I said get your bike light off it's as soon as I told him to turn his bike off he stepped out of his car and as soon as he put his foot on the pavement all I heard was I looked into my rearview mirror into my wing mirror and I'm seeing two or three I can't remember it's definitely no less than two guys with balaclavas, all black clothing guns in their hands trying to tiptoe to my door bearing in mind I haven't even tested it easy full I know it don't work but the person I get off I know they wouldn't do that so I put out the window and nothing happened because all it is is that there was a switch a switch so I just took that off and assumed that it would do that and I know it and from this side I can see bugs he's like I don't know what he had like a handgun automatic but he was just shooting back at them and I can still hear all the ping ping ping so all I've done is there was some round thing on top I'm looking at it I'm panicking really I've just pulled there's a thing on the top of it it's like a round knob when I pull it I heard it go it was like a selector so you know that on a normal handgun you go there was no cooking back there's a thing on top it's got a spring on it you pull it back and that was it I just pulled it out the window and I just went and when I looked they were running now so where they are running now that's giving me energy in it so I've got out the car like you know no aim do you know just movie stuff just went just sprayed it you can hear it hitting the doors and then you can hear them coming over the car like ping ping ping ping but that's getting me more excited because I know now I'm in control of what's going on in it so I'm just going up the road saying stop hiding you want to shoot? and then what happened was I saw there was like an old man and a little girl and it was hiding by the side of the car and then they kept on shooting so I don't know what made me do it but I just I just fired the gun in the air and said I think I said stop or something and I told them to come across the road because they were trying to get across the road and I don't know why I done it but it was a lucky thing I did do it because the judge said if you didn't do that you'd have got over 20 today he said I don't know why you done it obviously you shouldn't be shooting in the streets but he said you cared enough to put your own life at risk for the old man and the old and the little girl but the prosecutor weren't having it he was saying no the reason he done this is because he does this everyday he's a professional but the judge didn't take what he said in consideration because he knew a professional gunman and just a guy acting reckless on the street is two different things so if you're the latter and you're still trying to help people even though you've created a situation in his eyes he said he's going to keep me down into consideration that happened and then while that happened the guys ran off basically they took it as an opportunity to cut out and obviously now I'm pumped up and I haven't really used this thing properly in my mind because there ain't nobody dead I said to myself I ain't finished yet do you know what I mean so I found that couple of other boys I know they linked me up and we just started to drive around the nightclub scene in South London looking for these guys so now we're all dressed up long jackets bulletproof bulletproof vests we put up a link top and got all of everything we've got together to go and look for these guys so we drove up to Pearly Way and we drove up to Pearly Way and I've jumped out the car as soon as we got into the car park and I started putting my head in people's cars you know like trying to see who's in the back like I could see who's in the front but it was very rude of what I was doing you know what I mean there's cars lined up to get into a party and I just jumped out my car but obviously they can see what's in my hand because I'm not hiding it and I'm looking at people's cars and then there was a little young boy who was with us he saw me doing that and he tried to do the same thing but he was doing the same thing but then I just heard him scream Quincy, Quincy help me turn around and I've seen around six guys stamping on him stamping on him, stamping on him and I can hear them saying get his gun, get his... so once I've heard that I've ran over there and I've just gone just like a sweep with the machine and I heard the same noise you know when he hits all the cars and then I've heard someone screaming so basically it was one of the guys that was stamping him out so he's grabbed his gun and I said come let's go we've jumped in our car and he's in the car behind so there was a BMW of us like a five series and we was in a gold A3 so as I've jumped back in the car with the driver the young boy is the driver so we got into the gold car then there's three of my CODs there in the BMW behind me so Dave went and Giveth so what is it because I've been doing a bit too much of it I didn't know how much Belichard left so I looked and pulled the thing I was nervous maybe I pushed the trigger and then the bullet went through the dashboard and the car just conked out by that time it caused all the electrics in it just conked out and I'm thinking what are we going to do now police cars pulled up behind us and he's got his light on I don't know how them look new but they just reversed reversed all the way up to us we jumped out our car and jumped in their car so now there's five of us in this BMW and there's probably around three guns in there now so we're driving driving down pearlyway I've told the guy left or right and he's done the opposite of what I said because he's panicking so I think he went left he went left so he's gone left it's like industrial places so now he's brung us back all the way back to the party again so as we got to the party remember there's bare police already out there and every road now that we drive past there's police see you're driving down the road there's police joining the chase so I'm driving down that way down the main road and there's police on every side road so as we drive past them they're joining in so now there's so much blue sirens that in the car is blue everything is blue it's like they're transporting us somewhere they're at the sides there's helicopters everything's just flashing blue so I'm saying to myself I remember I said to them how's man going to get away a man said they don't know so I said I'm not going back to Jo you know I'm not going back to Jo but I said you know what I'm going to shoot and I remember when everyone in the car said don't do that so I said bro how do you think we're going to get away said we're fucked look there's police down there there's police behind us police at the side of us and no one was talking so I just put it out the window I didn't look I just put it out the window and I just went I probably done that twice and the magazine was finished threw the gun out the window as we were driving and my other friend he had a gun as well and I said bro you're going to use it or what and he said no you just threw it down on the floor you get me so I picked it up I probably shot around twice of it and I just let it put it back in the footwell and then we were driving for a little bit and then the car crashed and when the car crashed I was about to jump out crashing to one of them the fences in the middle of the road so I was about to jump out he kind of reversed and got to come back out of the thing so we drive drive and then and I felt the wheel they put them stingers in the road and the wheels fought funny and then once the wheels went so as that wheel was going I jumped out the car but when I jumped out the car I was in police with the hats on and they had the MP5 and they said don't move don't move but I was so scared I just ran straight past them I remember there's other people coming out the car from behind me so it's like they're kind of more concentrated on them so I just kept running and you know you got roads of houses and then they got the little space for the garden between each houses I just darted through one of them and um I remember I don't like dogs so I went into his back garden there's dogs I was so scared I did not even have a chance to jump the fence I ran through the fence you know them they got carton you know them wooden fence that people have in their garden there's long strips of woods and they're just wood side by side so I ran through them all you could hear in people's gardens was bap bap bap cos I never had the strength or anything to do any of that I just kept running somehow I was just getting through them and obviously that was waking up the dogs yeah and then I got to a point where there was a big kind of like forest place not forest but just greenery and I was stuck there and the helicopter was going off the helicopter was going off what I'm thinking I'm going to get caught here in it and when I was swinging that I got so scared I had to shit on the floor I just had to shit there I couldn't even hold it I just pulled my trousers down and just shat in the corner that's how I was trembling I've never been that scared cos I know what I've done and I can see that they're onto me and then when the helicopter was going round there was a long tree and I knew I couldn't make it all the way to the other side without that thing getting me so I kind of like I kind of and not even just that you see I'm so scared my legs are only taking me so far like I can only get so far so I'd like to run my body is trembling so much I can't so what I've done is I hid under the tree for a while it was a big oak tree but it was just like a position so it went fully on the floor some of it was still up so I stood under there and while it was going round for a while I just stayed laying down and when it got past me I ran and just kind of ran behind it and I just kept on running running running until I ran from Fort and Eve to Crystal Palace and went straight to went straight back to that girls ass chilled out and then nearly everybody in that car got away except for one person, his leg got trapped you know as he was trying to jump out the finger above so they started phoning me I was on the run for around 8 days is like the worst days of my life I forget me because I kept on I knew I couldn't turn on the phone to make money because I knew the fence had the numbers because they arrested my friend you know what I mean so um and then obviously I throwed the gun out yeah I've got no gun but the funniest thing is do you know the gun ended up back in the car you know when I got arrested I threw it out the window but then when I got arrested it was in the foot world don't know how that happened but that's a whole other story so my prints ended up in the Uzi in the foot world with my prints on it when you threw it out the first time did it have prints do you know what more than lightly more than lightly and I mean I wasn't I didn't have gloves or anything so seeing the court you again they put that in your possession yeah so basically what they've done is they've connected me to the car by saying we saw you in this car three months ago because they found a receipt in the car and that car was used to get petrol in Camden so they can say that they've tied me to the car already but what they want to do is tie the gun to the car and blame you because you might have had the pill to get somebody else to take the blame maybe yeah I could have done all of that in it but what what it was is when they gave me my 14 years and based on remember that story I told you where he would have given me more than 20 he said in my appeal if I come back to court they're going to start my sentence again because they think that I got off lightly even though I got 14 and my coldies got 10 and 6 years that is lightly though if you're shooting at the corpus no 100% 100% that's a 25 right and the thing about it is you see because I had the rubberies the rubberies in the past they tried to do a thing called what was it three strikes and out or two strikes and out you know because by an off and off yeah but I had to prove remember before when I was telling you that there was no violence involving the rubberies but they termed it steaming so they could get us into crime court to give us more sentence so what they done is they tried to say yeah this guy is going to get a life sentence today because I know because I know my criminal career and my past I knew I hadn't touched no one in none of the rubberies so what they done is they read every manuscript for every rubber case I've done and saw that there was no violence in them and that's the only reason I didn't get a life if there was any violence in any of them rubberies they weren't rubberies they were called steamings it was a term that they used to class it as rubbery if it wasn't for none I touched any of them people in any of them rubberies I would have got a life but because I knew I had it I was confident of talking about that how do you feel speaking about that about the shootings and shooting out the window with not looking especially after taking the old man and the girl across the road potentially you shooting out the window you could have hurt someone how do you feel that you never hurt anybody I feel relieved that I didn't hurt not just because of it would have stopped me from getting life and changing my family's life out of here but I didn't plan to kill no police the only person the people that I was trying to hurt me I definitely know that's what I'm trying to do the police just kind of caught up in my madness I wasn't out to hurt them or nothing like that it was just a thing of I feel that I've been wronged and I'm out here right now trying to get revenge on the people that I've been trying to kill me and it just so happens that the police just approached me on the wrong day on any other day I would have tried to dare do that but because I was already on this buzz that I've been getting chased down for long and now I'm in control where I've got the bigger gun and I've seen what they're capable of I just wanted to kind of rectify me being chased down for months do you know what I mean there was no personal vendor error against the police or it was just me thinking I can't go back to prison you were doing whatever it takes to try and get away not realising it's going to make your life worse what was your mum saying at this time when you got your 14 my mum was devastated because it's just like 3, 5, 14 and at that time at the time I got my 14 my sister that tipsy he died she was killed he came out for home leaving and they killed him do you know what I mean the same ones that were trying to kill you and then she got another boyfriend and he got killed too by that time and me getting my sentence my mum was just crushed in it the whole family was crushed obviously my sisters out there and she's had two past boyfriends the brothers doing a life exactly obviously they're not with Vincent no more so it's just like it's just women by their self and how is he in the whole thing did you ever speak to him you see like when he left my mum that was kind of the end of the anything that could be because obviously my mum's been trying to get that relationship for years and one day she just gathered the strength to do it do you know what I mean so there was never really no talking between us or anything I've only really talked to him since I've been out this time like halfway through so what was your family 14 then what was life like then when you realised sitting in a dock 14 years 14 years of age the first I remember the first thing that I done when they gave me a 14 years I was because I was in the you remember the dome robbers we was in the same court so I was with them you know what I mean and some other probably famous shootings that were happening at the time but I didn't really care I came in the cell and I just went on my knees and I said I said God please don't let this don't let this don't let this affect me as in I don't let this you know break me because remember I already know how evil prison can be and then now you're telling me I got a sitting there for a decade I just prayed I said please God please please just don't let this hurt me that's it and I trust everything will be okay and that was it I didn't go on anymore I didn't go on and I just sat down and and I I quietly felt confident that I would be okay but only because of that moment with God I only thought I'd be okay when I asked him it just made me feel like he was going to sort it I don't know that moment in time I just felt it I asked for it and that was it I just sat down it's funny life that I speak to murderers, bank robbers people with addictions and when you get to a certain breaking point you realise we all know what's right and what's wrong no matter in life sometimes you can't get conditioned when you think it is normal but we do know right and wrong but there comes a point when you turn to someone you just think this ain't normal shooting out cars or murders and robberies it ain't normal when we kind of there's no guidance but we look for a higher power and we try and guide this and say I'll not do this again if you can just guide me we all want protected, we're all vulnerable we're all scared I can interview the biggest and baddest man on this planet but I guarantee he will have vulnerabilities holding a gun in a knife of me is a vulnerability that's not a bad man that is a weakness and I always say it that is their comfort blanket because you've been bullied mentally physically maybe at a younger age the knife of the gun becomes a protection I'm going to hold this, please don't hurt me anymore because I know that will keep you away but it never really keeps anybody away because there's always somebody who's wanting to get that reputation coming through the ranks maybe their stepdad, maybe their father you were that age where you were trying to live up to a height watching the gangster films and thinking I want that life but looking back it is a life of fucking misery it's a life of pain obviously even when I look at my mum and my sisters I can see the pain of the life do you know what I mean I can see it and any little thing happens do you know what I mean it's like it comes back to them 100 times the feelings that they put any little thing that doesn't get away, the same as my mum she's lost brothers to murder the strains there so what do I do, I go and hide I try and become something that I'm not what I do is take the fucking reins what I do is make a life that we're all happy get our freedom create a life that give me power my mum can go to your work and people go your son's doing amazing that shit there you cannot buy no jewellery, no car, no holiday nothing but that, they're self worth that your son's doing great after all the misery that's probably caused you and other family members have caused you, do you know what I know what I've done wrong but here it is, I'm going to show you the fucking how much an amazing man I can be and you always believed in it and I believe that for me that's a bad man, for me some that can take the reins and it's quite addictions and quick bullshit in the self, that's a fucking that's a tough bastard you know what I mean, because there comes a stage in your 20s, maybe not your 20s but maybe your 30s when you start to realise I'm in control what's makes making these decisions to fuck up, to bring the strain to your sister's face your mum's face but everybody's got to take responsibility as well you know what I mean, even your sister even your mum, even my mum even my sister, they've got to take some sort of responsibility a lot of people can point blame but there comes a time when you can actually take yourself out of certain situations so going through all that and doing your 14 and kind of wanting peace because when you speak man you're a nice guy but if somebody walked by nobody would realise that shit you actually went through shooting news and involved in murders fuck all because I know people who are dangerous that maybe get sitting up here a jeans on, sitting in a pub having a pint that nobody would even know of it doesn't really mean fuck all but it's like the guy I was telling you sitting down with the glasses and another day you just think who's that how was your reputation though because that was all over world news that was all over the papers that people were shooting news he's at the police, especially on news it's one of the biggest guns out there you see people cheat you different do you know what I mean so and like I said it's not even for that stroke your ego though yeah definitely definitely at the time because remember the place that you're in in the place that you're in now we're in dispersal prison there is no time for weakness so if something like that is part of your all world that gets you through you can't really knock it in that place do you know what I mean because no one will hear anything about softy softy everyone just if you're not tough, you're not hard you'll be a victim in places it's that simple and like I said I've been used to being that way because of prison and of being controlled I know how it feels to be controlled how to rebel against being controlled so if I'm hearing something like that and people respect it and it helps me be more in control because it comes back down to control control of my environment because you've heard I've done something like that at that time I'm not I'm not going to be saying oh I didn't do that even though I'm not saying I did do it obviously you already know I've done it and trying to change your perception of me that I'm a nice guy that the guy that's nice and that they don't respect him he'll get robbed and get his cant intake of him do you know what I mean I was in Catey I was a Catey for I was a Catey for probably around seven years so what happened to me was what happened to me was when I went to prison the first time I went to a place called no I remember I told you I went to Ellisbury but I met this guy Simbad and bearing in mind I have been abandoned you know when I was younger so you know if you're abandoned when you're younger you're always looking for something to connect to something to be a part of so he used to get people used to bully him yeah and I've really never ever lacked bullies in that I've always standed up for the people because I can so I started to hang around with him so people didn't bother him but when he done that when I was doing that he started to introduce me to something called Islam so I've been doing that now so obviously for them a few years to around 17 so I was like one of the first people black boys in the prison system to become Muslim when I became it no one else wasn't no one else wasn't Muslim wasn't cool to be Muslim people saying to me doing that what are you doing that for man yeah it's not even your religion I don't know why you fall in the Asian man for and then obviously because I'm hardheaded I started to be because obviously when you go to the mosque in that and remember there are things about loving that you know like proper Muslims not these other through prison I've found out there's been two types of people there's people that are really Muslims in them there's people that came to be Muslims and there's people that are Muslims but obviously they struggle with certain things so there's three types but they still pray five times a day they still try and at the end of the day that's the most you can do in it especially if you know what's wrong or right you can only try in it not human so because of when I'm going to the mosque and it's all love and the wrong people are not involved in Islam at this stage in prison it's just if you are really a Muslim your family and stuff like that you've been born into it because it's more probably just Asian people in the mosque but when I come there I love their showing you in that that makes you feel loved is that the first year that I felt that yeah really because even the friends I grew up with the guys on the street they didn't love me they didn't love me at all the man that I grew up in Brixton and they called they weren't my friends and that's why now I have no problem not even dealing with them I don't have no problem at all because I've done 10 nearly 15 years in prison no visits so I don't really care it's not a problem for me but when I was going to the mosque the love felt genuine and it was I know it was but now because of that now because now I feel like that's my family I have now become a protector of our setup because now this is my thing so I was serious about what I was in involved in yeah there weren't no extreme extreme stuff or nothing like that these are my brothers getting love did you have to forgive your past did you have to ask for forgiveness to do all of that because you're very calm now I know that you've been forgiven as well what was your state when you were younger maybe not I was very hyped so obviously through that sentence I was in the fold of Islam and when I came back out I never had Islam in my head I just came back out started smoking started drinking and within my community at that time it wasn't cool to join Islam or anything like that so Islam wasn't even a big thing in my community so it's not like nowadays you come out of prison you can go into the community full of Muslim brothers and people still want to help you there weren't none of that so I just came out and went straight back to what I know the drugs the road, girls etc so I done that went back to prison came back out in prison I was still Muslim and when I came out I never done anything to do with Muslim and then I got arrested for the 14 years the 14 that we talked about at the stage right now so now we're at that stage now it seems like a new wave has happened and there's lots of people who are becoming Muslims and that's good but I realise it's only good as long as the people have got the right intentions you know who are joining and what I started to see through the time I was in prison is like a lot of people saying they're doing it for food as well they're doing it for protection do you know what I mean so we got people who are rapists now coming to prison saying oh I'm Muslim and not everyone has to leave him alone do you know what I'm saying and a guy who's saying he's a snitch but now he's leaving him alone so I could see I was around a lot of people who were using Islam for their own benefit as a crutch to get through prison so obviously like I said when I came out of prison my mind was never on Islam but when I was in prison it seemed like I was but at those two times when I was in prison I was in control wherever I was you were doing it for change I was doing it because I felt like this felt good it made me feel good when I was praying it gave me some kind of good it gave me something that I didn't have before so it wasn't nothing to protect because I didn't need protecting so when I got to that stage I was in there I was still going to mosque kaey reports they kept on saying part of the muslim boys part of the gang part of the gang I've never ever saw myself as no because like I said I came into the religion with the right intentions so I've never ever saw myself as no muslim gang I don't know what you are watching from your security mind standpoint and making notes but maybe them guys maybe they are muslim the muslim boy gang but because I talk to them I'm muslim gang because I've never needed to have a gang except for when I was growing up but no matter what in prison if you're shooting at music corpus if you've been in the system since you're 12 they ain't going to see you so that's what you just got to where I was going so even though I'm looking at it like that they're looking at everything fighting the screws anti-authority do you get what I'm saying now muslim and now how we're looking at muslims in prison because we know that in prison they're getting radicalized and maybe yeah you got the potential to be an extremist an extremist or maybe make it even big in that gang and stuff like that that's how they're looking at it which is understandable as well which is understandable and I get it now but when I'm suffering it I'm just pissed off so anyway that was happening and I was just thinking yeah I want parole but I don't think they can give it to me because I'm looking at my reports that they're writing for me and I'm thinking no parole man person in their mind is going to give me parole anyway that went past and everything was fine and then the 7-7 you know the bombing that happened didn't it and I don't know why but it's just like to me I felt like you know when I watched all the stuff on the news and that I felt like whoever done that threatened my family because I'm thinking my sisters my daughters because I know people have a lot of things to say about my views and how I see things but you know what I like to deal with the reality and facts so people like to say oh yeah but you're from here and you're from there most of what you're talking about like you you can know you're from Scotland you got a Scottish accent where they want to say I'm from I don't have them accents do you get me I know that I'm born here do you know what I mean and when I look at all the madness that I've done and I've still allowed to be sitting here now talking to you I feel like that's great do you get what I'm saying so there's no need for me to be mad with where I come from I only can get mad at where I come from when if I start believing that person's story that I'm really from over there I don't feel like I need to be angry do you get what I'm saying because I feel like the place I was born has allowed me to do so much mistakes and still turn my life around yeah not everyone can think like that but because I think like that I can appreciate where I'm from and what it's done for me like all these things I've learnt in the next country I might not be able to learn I might have just gone through it and I have died I might have been in an electric chair or something messed up but I've been allowed because the way the country sit up to be able to still prosper after all of that and I think that's great in it of course you're learning from your mistakes I don't care I'm not a religious man I believe they're higher power back there's people on the show who turn to Christ turn to Islam and they're doing great see if you're not hurting anyone or not forcing your views on anyone if it's helping you become a better person crach ar alcohol so I've tried to understand who I am not who someone wants me to think I am did you ever do therapy? yeah done therapy in prison and when I first got out and that was the best thing that ever happened to me I used to suffer from stomach aches I used to go to the doctors they couldn't find nothing wrong with me after three counselling sessions I just felt it just leave my body the trauma, the pain, the misery I just act someone said something there's no talking about it, it's just acting and I just keep it all bottled up but that's because obviously your parents teach you in it you do a lot of crying at therapy around the tears the crying at therapy only happened when I got out when I was doing it inside tears never came to me I came out because it was just like I've come out of it when you're in there even though I'm doing therapy I still got the mask on because you're in there when I came out of here they banned me for London for two years and I stayed in Manchester because of the gun thing? because before I came out they had osman warnings I was in a decaf and I was working in a place for the galleries of justice and when I was working in there there's a museum and not in them they said that there were threats on my life but I don't believe them because I was about to get parole and because I'm in a decaf already I believe if I would have got my parole when I come out there would be no restrictions on me because I've already proved myself in the community so what they've done is they said there's been threats to my life and they took me out decaf and put me back in the sea cat and when my parole came up they still said obviously there's a sea cat in it so he ain't been proven in the community so my parole got knocked back and if you give an osman warning they're supposed to come and tell you you know X Y up to now I ain't signed nothing and they spoke to me they just told the prison that and the prison moved me out and the prison put me back so I don't even believe there was an excuse to take me back because I was about to go to university because of travel the person that I used to work for in the national guard of justice he was like the head on the board and I'm thinking about when he got me a place and then there's like two weeks until I start college so if I would have had that and I'm in a decaf and I'm going to university I'm getting parole and then you can't you can't tell me about I need to do this and do that because I've already proved it already that I'm alright that's how I'm in a decaf so the last nine years you're out three man, living life, you've worked on yourself mentally how have you been the last nine years adapting to society again well like I said the first two years was hard but it was the best thing because like you said before when you go into certain situations and there's no expectation of you as in the reputation or anything you can actually grow and I found when I was in Manchester I kind of grew because all the thoughts that I had inside myself in prison when I came out I was allowed to get stronger in my thoughts that I could achieve them like every time I've been in prison before you could have good intentions and good thoughts in your brain but when you come back out and go straight back into that pot they all get wiped out of your brain you kind of go with what is going on now and when I came to Manchester all the scripts and all the books and all the literature and the songs I wrote when I'm up there and I've got no one to really see even though my family was there but there was another side of Manchester where I was I was in Newton-Eath you go back into that side and start going in your books and reading things and start making phone calls and telling people your ideas and then there's a me in and then it's like yeah, that stuff that you believed in at the time you can really make it happen and you can start seeing results where if I would have went straight to London I would have went in my bags all I would have done is probably linked someone and kind of got caught up in what they were doing because it would have seemed like what they're doing is more important because right now nothing can't get on for me so where I sat down with my work and obviously the probation was helping me I was telling her things that I wrote and they're telling me to go over there telling me to go and meet that person and then one time I even went to the university in Manchester and just told them about my life once I learned that they paid me for it and they said they want to see me again so I don't know a few of them and then after that they said that probation officers want to hear my story so I went to a new probation officer before they joined probation told them my story I see a couple of them crying and stuff like that and then they sent me to some place in Manchester where the gun police are to give them my story and you see when I went in there you know I went in there yeah I've never been so scared in my life I was sitting down in this hall and they were like a court already you know the way the court was on and they said just sit there and I said just sit there and I was sitting there and I was thinking and they brought me through this door bruv forget mean mugs in the ghetto bruv you see when these guys are looking at me I could feel it because you know they take it personal of course it's a family yeah exactly they take it serious so when I walked in there I was like this is the most nervous I've ever because remember before when I'm giving the university I was thinking yeah man this is it's my life in it I just spin it off forget mean then when I went in that room and it was a small room as well it's no bigger than this and there was this like free chairs some of them were going to sit down some of them were just looking at me obviously I just started bruv do you know when I finished they all went and they shook my hand and that day I cried that day I cried not in front of them like I sat down in the finger with them and thought wow imagine that yeah I'm doing something with my life and that's the power of life and making changes and making progress and learning from your mistakes and that's it all the time but you can learn that's powerful though to being the bad man shooting news, drugs losing family members and friends to murder suicide, overdose all the usual suspects in that life to then speaking in front of the screws and getting a round of applause on police what are they called again? I forgot what they called and response Excalibur that's what they called at Manchester but they can learn from you as well 100% to fucking hate the police hate them, snitches get put in ditches mentality hate them and again the first people if someone goes missing or your kids or the house gets broken into, they are doing their job do you know what I mean and if you're in that life a crime you fucking hate them because they can put you away and rightly so I think of everything I've done that was the most bravest thing I've ever done in my life did that kick you on? it took them after that they started bringing me to the town hall in that to help with you know with youth prevention and obviously I was doing that and then obviously I just moved back to London because I realised that what I needed to do I can't really do up here how did you get accepted coming back to London was your life still in danger or strategy in your life was difficult as well isn't it because your conscience kicks into play all the bad shit that you've done forget about what could be it's that stuff you're talking about that holds you back but in my community I've never grown up fearful because of my stepdad in that surrounding I could go somewhere else and be fearful and get that adrenaline rush but in that area there I've never ever felt like I've needed to be scared because I've obviously had the protection from him and then obviously the protection of who people think I am has anybody ever tried to take him out before yeah of course this is a scary thing if we've got the baddest man on the street of the city you do bad shit because you think you're always untouchable but as soon as the head of the snake gets cut all comes top for you and I've seen that happen many times definitely so when I came back and obviously you know when I'm coming back and obviously I'm just walking the streets at this time I haven't got a driving licence so I'm just walking and obviously every car that goes past and then when you're seeing people they're saying what's that little saying that used to get me paranoid all the time be safe bro be safe be safe bro what do you mean by that no no I'm just saying bro just be safe but remember like you said because of the things that's gone on in my mind I'm thinking around the first probably two three years even if you watch some of my interviews when I first come out the guy is hitting me on the road and I'm going like that every car that passes I'm like that and it's not like I'm it's natural I'm just looking like that you can just see me answering the questions but just looking around because what I've been led to believe even though like I didn't get the husband warning and obviously a couple of my friends have died should I be out here but I'm thinking to myself I'm not going to go and hide in Manchester and not become all I can be because I knew I had plans and as soon as I started to play myself I saw things changing and that just gave me more confidence and then the more I started to change people's perception of me the more my life started to feel better and start to get easier where before people were where we were even standing next to me I don't believe you either though when you're going through a change you feel as if you're trying to tell everybody that you've changed that I've changed but then there comes a point you go fuck everybody else actually speak louder than words this is what I'm doing we don't know what's down the corner brother we don't know it's about you know what I'm not going to live in fear and you tend to see that's when you become a tough man not when you're holding a gun or shooting a nose out a window not looking, taking a shit that's when you're most vulnerable people think that's when you're right the toughest one is the one who can learn for the mistakes, who can understand I don't need this life that's sicky feeling you've had in your berry for 30 odd years and then it goes that anxiety that pain that you're not good enough anymore but everybody's got goodness in them greatness in them so plans for the future my brother well like I said basically when I came out I had all these dreams and that so what I done is I started to make music but I felt like I had like people I know from the community in music videos and that of me and I just spoke to myself because I know my community well I know some of these people have got more to offer than just standing up in music videos isn't it because I know their characters and that it doesn't matter if they got money or they're broke they got this star quality about them so I said to myself what I'm going to do is I'm going to sit back do some writing and um I designed the drama series one of these people in the drama series are actors they're all just people that I know you when you were young you used to be funny you know what I mean you got away with words and I just put them all in the drama series and they wanted to keep their names you can also for their little instagram and their socials so we've done all of that kept their names and I kept the script loose because I didn't want to say say this and just say it the way I want you to say it I want you to put your personality on it so I kept it I'll give you the guidelines I'm trying to get from A to B to C but I need you to say this but just say it in the way you want to say it or say it in your style or put your personality on it and then we're on we just finished the third season and I'm filming finishing the fourth season right now yeah they just pull it on so the fifth episode in from the first series so I'm younger TV and if you don't know what younger TV is you can just go to I've got a page called Real Life TV UK the link's in the bio so you can just go straight through either to the YouTube or you can just watch it on Sky what about your own social media for people who want to get your point attacked yeah mine's official underscore Quincy underscore Fweights and that's I control both of those for the Real Life TV UK and Quincy Paxman that's what I used to be called when I was doing the interviews so Quincy underscore no official underscore Quincy underscore Fweights that's a slack my name what about Twitter and Instagram if you've got any of that stuff that is Instagram that's Instagram it's because I'm a dici but that is um I don't want to confuse anyone with all the names just go to Quincy official underscore Quincy Fweights on Instagram and everything's there got to touch on my man's Yami because it was Yami to set up absolutely love Yami Yami's done over 40 years in the jail come out changed his life and you wouldn't even think it we speak near enough every day me and Yami love all my bits we're actually going to make a documentary that's been involved he's amazing he's a great big bubbly person that likes that a fucking room and then you understand his own story and his own struggles but he went through as a kid to still keep fighting it's good that people can we are getting the platform now that people can get the story understand with it a minute he was shooting a gun why would somebody want to speak to him but then you understand with it a minute well you were abandoned at 12 you needed to find other people to accept you so you've done bad things because what accepts isn't your gang and now look what you're doing now is phenomenal so I'm going to shake your hand for that man what you're doing is unbelievable from the character that you are to the man that you are now is total night in day in it's beautiful for anybody that's watching and thinks that what would be a bad man if they think it's a life maybe their dad's a bad man, there are uncles and they think okay I want to be that because they see the girls just now they've got a lot of money maybe see the jeeps or the convertibles the Rolexes but we both know it doesn't mean fuck eventually it's took off them in time and for anybody watching what advice would you give for them the government or the kids the kids you see if you have a dream you know it might be a group if you've got a dream you see if your friends don't want to support you in your dream I feel like you should find new friends because you see for someone to have a dream it's not easy in the communities we live in sometimes you can seem like you're weird about having a dream in that but you see if you don't be strong and go for your dream the way everything is set right now you could end up being a victim and that's a victim of prison victim of death or mental health because like I said my dad's got mental health now so if you've got a dream because I don't want to say what's wrong and right or don't do this don't do that I just say if you've got a dream and your friends ain't supporting you if you have to be by yourself to fulfil the dream do it because it will be worth it at the end of the day the other side is not worth it so if you've got a dream let's focus in it find a way to be strong to fulfil it and don't follow friends if you've got a dream you've got to protect it how's your relationship with your dad he's in prison at the moment how long has he been in for now a few years I think what you're doing is unbelievable going forward for the future I can't wait to see what you do it's been an absolute pleasure God bless, thank you and comment your thoughts on this week's podcast thank you