 Hello and welcome to the drum history podcast. I am your host Bart van der Zee and this is a very special episode I'm joined by the foremost expert on Gene Krupa, Mr. Brooks Tagler. Brooks, how are you? How you doing? Good to talk to you again, Bart. Good. Yeah, you're the first return repeat guest on here and I think it's perfect and very fitting that this is This is a big one So you've got you've got something that you want to share with the world and I am beyond honored that I get to be the medium for you to uh Talk to people. So that's huge for me. You get the scoop. I get the scoop. That's that's the way to put it So Brooks, why don't we just uh, why don't you just why don't you start man? Let's just let's just get right into it So what is the scoop? Okay, the scoop is Every group of fans dream Uh, well, I shouldn't say every but at least it's always been mine and um My good friend Don McCauley, many will know Don Works closely with uh someone we all know by the name of charlie watz and charlie has uh as a pretty uh Well, there are probably aren't words to destroy. It's a very impressive collection of well-known vintage drums Drums sets drum equipment recordings etc etc From a lot of people that we all recognize their names as well of course people like george wetling and dave tough and A few items uh also that belong to team krupa don called me several months ago actually in october of last year and invited me up To where he was so that I would have the honor of going through and cataloging a massive collection of stuff of genes That had been in storage since 1973 We're talking drums sets Plackers trophies Uh symbols Trap cases stands you name it. Wow You name it and this was a great proportion of this stuff Uh is actually seen Because it basically comprises Just about everything that he used for the last six to eight years of his career Wow and to clarify in 1973 gene passed away. So this would have been like hey, here's his stuff Let's put it in this storage unit and we'll figure it out later and it sounds like no one figured it out until You guys came along. Well. Well, I think what happened was that It would you know, of course for a certain few it had been known that it was there and Due to some life changes, etc Uh some moving some, you know retirements, whatever you want to call it Um The storage the stuff in storage Basically had to be moved Literally and figuratively The the fact that it was all of a sudden For sale was a pretty closely guarded secret Um and basically charlie bought all of it. Oh wow and yeah And he got quite a haul frankly And It's just it's it, you know, it's very exciting to to think about this stuff Being out there, this is stuff to die and a million other people always assumed was long gone Many people would have assumed that it burned up in a fire Or was you know sold at an auction It really I don't really have the back story as to why The choices were made for why this went into storage. I'm guessing It went into storage in 73 before gene passed away But perhaps because of the fire It was pulled out of the house. It was kept safe The idea being presumably that it would come back out And gene passed away in october that year and never actually used it. So it stayed there And it stayed there until last winter So, you know, we're talking about a considerable amount of time Wow and as I said when gene was still working Many of the items that are in this collection. He was still using Um and that included At least there are at least three base drums That people have seen hundreds of pictures of Um, but there's some oddball items too some surprises. There were big surprises to me Um, but when I started doing research And I presented charlie and don with a 28 page report of everything that I'd found Uh, there were some there were some surprising things Um, I actually had to eat my own words in one particular instance when someone had talked about a rumor That at one point gene had a rogers dynasonic snare drum really And I would say now that was just a miss, you know, yeah, he's mr. Slingerland. Wow And it wasn't a miss. It was the truth And it was not one but two Dynasonics he had a metal one and he had a white marine pearl wooden one. Oh, man. I'm sure I'm sure that was, you know influenced by buddy, of course. Yeah Um But the truth is unless you saw pictures of him playing this stuff It's quite likely that he tried it out and didn't necessarily like it There are two parade snares in that collection One of which I know he did use the other one he kept in his basement, but he never actually took it out Were those slingerland the parade snares? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, just making sure Other than the two dynasonics The only other non slingerland equipment that gene ever had was the two billy gladstone snares that billy gave him And the snares that bobby grasso made for it However, the grasso snares all had slingerland equipment on them In other words, the only thing that was really bobby grasso in those instances were the shells And most of those were prototypical shells because he had not even started fives yet And was just starting to experiment with fiberglass shells So I think he recalled making Six or seven seven or eight prototype snares And those were mostly for gene and most of those have just literally disintegrated Yeah, because the formula was not correct yet For how to hold the fiberglass together and he put all slingerland hardware on them You know some variation with mostly zoonatics with You know different butt ends different parts So there aren't even many of those around anymore. I think I know of at least But they're they're probably four that I know that exist of the grasso snares None of those were in this collection, of course And I know that my friend Joe Lanny owns one of the grasso snares And There are you know, the the the quantity of stuff in this pile Is just remarkable because Uh These are working drum sets that gene has Yeah, well, let's let's pause for a second because to back up I want to clarify So when we're talking about charlie watz in case no one knows this is the absolute, you know, megastar drummer of the rolling stones. This is a Massive drummer. So just if anyone didn't know that that's who that is and then to explain the fire Which I recommend you check out, uh, brooks did a full episode with me on gene's life where There was a fire at his home his like beloved home in yonkers. Um Not sure what what year was the actual fire? 73 so it was 73 so that was the year the year he died. Okay, so Yeah, and it wasn't it wasn't quite the massive fire that rumor has created. Yeah, the fire the fire started in his den upstairs and Really, that was the extent of the massive damage of the fire. The smoke damage was a different consideration You know the it was not the the house burned down kind of story that people have Have inflated that whole thing to be no, but that would lead to then storing putting some of this stuff into storage and all that But cool. I was like to make sure everyone's on the same page. Um, so I'd like to know I think everyone would like to know where was all this stuff when you actually first laid your eyes on it It was in new england. Um, and I you know because I'd like to Respect people's privacy. You know, it was the stuff had been moved from The storage facility to its next stop And then the stop after that was actually dawn's house Which was particularly funny because They were all this stuff was just jammed into a small room at dawn's house. And um, We you know, we went through this uh Literally for me one piece of the time, but this is after dawn who really I've known very few people in my career that work as hard as that guy Everything was individually wrapped taped up box And moved to his house Just you know, just for that move everything was you know, stuffed into a great big van So, you know, he was extremely careful and then turned around and Spent many days. I think creating stuff to send over to london Um, and just non-stop work. He does this all the time. He travels all over the world And he oversees charlie's collection in a In a way that most of us would only dream about having somebody that was that dedicated to doing this stuff Wow And of course He knows, you know, he knew what he was looking at when he found this stuff Um, that of course, so did charlie but charlie didn't actually initially see it So, you know charlie relies heavily on dawn Yeah To give him the information which you know, I don't think he could find a more reliable guy for this stuff So I was really honored when they when don called me up and said can you come up here? And go through this stuff and you know offer whatever knowledge you know Yeah, no, what what did that look like? Like what was your explain now a little bit about maybe maybe your role like you you day one Minute one you're looking at it. What what did you first think what it was the first step to organizing all of this amazing history? Well, of course, I've you know, I wanted to just get my hands on things Yeah, you know, I wanted to say, okay. Yeah, well this based on was this so forth But there's a lot of detail that I didn't have at my fingertips Literally or figuratively Until I'd actually seen everything Notated everything gotten photos of it all and then could sit down and start doing more intensive research So the whole point for me was uh Was basically to go up and just look at everything in the same way that any Museum curator would when some big fine came in, you know, there'd be a lot of people there that would be They would look at everything they would inspect everything But at some point the serious cataloging Had to begin So that's basically what I did. I spent a day up there Going through everything putting together a complete set In another room, which was I sent you a picture of that. Yeah Once this is out that drums that we'll post that because it is just like I mean it made me happy to see that To see you playing jeans real drums. I mean that's just so cool Yeah, well, I was you know, there's an indescribable feeling to be sitting behind that set after putting it together Uh, you know, the nice part is there were other things about the collection Again that were presumed to be gone. His last set of spotlights were there. They're red, right? Well, they're actually painted orange, but they were painted over sometime in the last year or two because Another group of fan long time ago sent me a color shot of gene playing up in new england And there were the spotlights, but they'd been painted orange So why they were painted orange have no idea still trying to figure that out. Wow But there they were. I mean, these are the spotlights that were in use by gene That particular model those particular lights they gene had been using those for 30 years or so They were the last model of spotlights out of three that he actually used So, I mean just the history was all over the place And the set that we built in another another room of Don's house just for pictures Was the set that included the 24 inch bass drum. That's the picture that I sent you Yeah, 20 20 by 20 floor tom 16 floor tom 13 mounted tom And the the only five and a half by 14 slingerland snare that was included Um gene also had a tendency to give stuff away Really, yeah, especially later in life. Yeah. Yeah, he would give stuff to like the local church The local school connected to the church that stuff went up for oxen several years ago But yeah, he would send stuff to people The the very first bass drum that I ever authenticated was a 14 by 26 radio king bass drum The gene had sent to a bartender friend that he met out in las vegas Because the guy asked him he said, you know gene, do you ever like, you know, give drums away and Blow and behold months later this 26 inch bass drum shows up at this guy's front door Wow, and he used that he used that as an end table for years, you know, oh my gosh that I would have had a problem Well, that's but what can you say? Yeah, so it it pays to just start asking people. Hey, do you ever give this away? Let's start doing that Well, it might work you never know. No, all right. So you're you're making me think Um, all right when we're looking at this collection in the world of drums I guess let's just say in the world of gene krupa like how many existing gene krupa full drum sets are out there How rare is this in the big picture of drums? Strangely enough, this is actually the only complete set Oh my god, and the yeah the everything else is just pieces Uh, there are lots of people out there who think they have a gene krupa drum set, but the fact is they don't Uh, again a lot of that stuff was given away, but gene used a lot of that stuff until it fell apart Um, you know much to the consternation of slingerland. They always wanted to have new stuff Wow by the very end by you know the time the first time the gene retired was 67 And he he pretty much given up, you know played badly or thought he played badly, etc, etc Came out of retirement in 1970. So much of this equipment Is stuff that he acquired then And it was also according to somebody who knew him and was with him at the time Was stuff that they sent him Even though the association with slingerland had pretty much fizzled out. Yeah um They sent him new stuff And if he asked for something they would still send him something he was still He was still the main guy for the company. He just wasn't appearing on Catalog covers anymore So but that's that's why that's why this is really the only complete Collection of that would make up a whole set Now if you have to put a year on it So are you saying these drums were like 1970 slingerlands because they look like a classic kind of uh, You know radio king set, but so what year what did you date the actual drum set to? Well, the latest stuff the newest stuff that's there Was uh, probably between 68 70 um The oldest stuff there probably the oldest drum Is one nine by 13 radio king mounted town Why that one stayed there? I don't know um But yeah the bulk of the equipment Uh is 60s Into the early 70s probably the last thing he got Was a 12 by 15 tdr uh Parade snare Because of the tdr 100 100 was actually introduced in the 73 catalog So he got that according to sources. He got that particular parade snare with the tdr throw off Sometime around 72 And then again that was probably a prototypical drum So and According to the reports I got he didn't really like it that much Yeah, well, but it's like you think of anyone with like You're kind of saying like I don't know why he had it But you think to anyone who has like a drum room and I'm I'm like thinking You know, you have an old broken cymbal hanging on the wall that it's just cool to have So I'm sure he might have just been like well, this is just a neat drum and He's the he's mr. Drums. So like just have it have it around. Yeah, certainly Certainly and the earlier parade snare that he did in fact use he recorded with it You recorded with that when he when he did the percussion king project Geez, wow So and used that Probably more than once he may have actually used it when he did the record with louis belson in the early 62 But that one is is late 40s early 50s vintage In beautiful shape But of course, you know, generally speaking gene didn't do much with parades and air drums. So not much there. Yeah So yeah, the late 60s, you can see the bass drums in hundreds of pictures The the oldest of the 60s. I believe it's just my opinion Was his very first 14 by 22 inch bass drum Which he picked up in 1962 When he ordered a whole bunch of new stuff. He literally ordered everything Including sticks and brushes. Wow, and that's when he picked up this drum He had other 22s that he used, you know during that period all the way up until The last one he got which I believe was in 68 69 That is the very last bass drum that he actually plays on in public And you can see him using that bass drum and that set the town towns were the same ones you saw in the picture I said Yeah, those are the same drums that you see him playing at that all the goodman quartet reunions Uh, including the one at carnegie hall. It's those drones two canister thrown Oh, really? Wow, that's neat. That's a that's a well. So you're getting into so First thought is it's amazing. It's kind of similar to finding someone's first drum set is this is the last drums this this Icon owned. I mean, that's just massive But you're what what what I want to know is um, and hopefully it can be kind of in an entertaining way And not just reading a list, but is there a way we can just kind of quickly go down the list of everything that was in that In the hall without it being too, you know I'm just reading a list. Well, uh, Yeah, well, actually that's there is because I plan to When we air this when you air this I will coordinate Putting my 28 page report up on my own blog page Awesome, which includes details and it also includes photographs. Okay part of the problem with this stuff is This is really important stuff Yeah Not just new merchandise for everybody. Sure Um, so I've tried to stress as strongly as I can That this is not stuff that's just going to be available for anybody with the right amount of money You know, it's not for sale. I guess is the point and it's also not People have to you know, keep in mind. There are plenty of people that that have put together bogus Phony Krupa stuff for years You know tried to palm off sets as being One that gene had yeah, of course it's for anybody who knows much about that kind of thing It's easy to easy to prove that they weren't Well the same thing with this stuff. It's going to be marked accordingly And you know if somebody five years from now wants to put up a drum that they found Claiming that it was something from this collection There's going to be a specific mark on that drum in a place that only those who know would be able to find And if that mark is not there then those people are lying mostly because You know, there are collectors out there and there are wheeler dealers and this stuff is Well, like I said, it's not for sale. Anyway, charlie, you know charlie has this stuff for his own collection That but that was my question was okay. So it's not for sale. This is charlie's Um, which man, I bet he's got an amazing drum room drum Warehouse of just this gear so yeah warehouse is more to the point. Wow. And so it's not for sale. It is it is a I mean, we're we're talking about charlie watt's collection of the last gear that gene krupa owned in his in his life Yeah, you're not going to get this on ebay No, you're definitely not and the fact is charlie has in self has Shared stuff from his collection with other people. That's that's his choice. It's his decision. Sure Um, you know what he does with the stuff And if some of this stuff becomes available It's going to be through channels that are not just the usual stuff Yeah, I got you, you know, I I think there I mean even charlie has to be practical about what he keeps And i'm guessing when all is said and done because a lot of this is still being discussed a lot of it's still being mulled over There's going to be stuff that charlie's probably not going to have any interest in at all You know, I mean, he's got he's got a he's got a huge building of drum history already Um, you know, does he need three of the same thing? Probably not now. Does he have any other gene krupa memorabilia already? He did have some stuff. I believe he had Actually, you know, I don't even know specifically. I think he had one snare drum That belonged to gene Or was said to belong to gene and a couple other small items I know that he's got some some masters of some of the records that gene did Cool But truth truth be told a lot of that stuff has not really been Reliably available You know, it's like that ill-fated Radio king snare drum that for years was Supposedly one that belonged to gene. It never came near gene Unfortunately now it actually belongs to another famous drummer who still thinks it belongs to gene Well, the sad thing is that, you know, that kind of stuff is contagious And you know, this apparently was given to the guy as a gift And still carries this mythological idea that it belonged to krupa. It never did And the whole you know, the whole commentary about supporting that claim Is grossly flawed, but you know, that's for another time The stuff that i'm talking about now is the real article the genuine article the real deal Yeah, it certainly is So I have a question for you and I know it's kind of a awkward question But I feel like I everyone wants me to everyone would want to know Do you know what mr. Charlie Watts paid for this entire collection? Is that something that's available to uh, to the drum history fans that that the information Uh Is not something I would ever be able to talk about if I knew sure I'm sure it was a lot Yeah, I bet man. I mean you can't can't blame a guy for asking but that's um Well, you know, I mean considering what the stuff is considering That the fact that it exists at all Yeah, um, you know, it's it's pretty valuable stuff, you know in the same way that you know as soon as somebody Showed over that last brick and all of a sudden realized they just opened up tuts to them exactly You know They get they get then they got to figure out a way to get that stuff back and protect it Yeah, it's only for this stuff. It's almost priceless. You know, I'm of course, there's a price and I'm sure you paid it But it is it is it is such iconic and and just I mean it has this I'm jealous man that you got to play this stuff. That's just so cool Yeah Yeah, well, I'm I'm very lucky. I mean don's a great guy charlie charlie also a great guy Good people and you know, I just got lucky that Whatever knowledge I had about gene, you know afforded me the opportunity And it was just great. I mean I was pretty much breathless the whole time Yeah, I bet you know going through this stuff including I mean there's four trap cases up there And you know stuff in them, you know, just thinking about the You know, okay gene was digging through this trap case on this gig And you know you couple that with So much of the actual anecdotal history about where gene was what he was doing Yeah, you know the story about the at the end of the Carnegie Hall Goodman courts at reunion where gene was so exhausted that he could not even get up Off of the canister throne he was sitting on So everybody came or grouped around him and there's a classic picture of him sitting there Supporting himself a little bit, but there's Benny standing right behind him All of those drums are in this collection. Oh my god every one, you know, and it's you know talk about Talk about putting some meat on the bones of a story. Good grief. Yeah, I bet I mean when you Including this realm when you walk into the room there has to be just all of your senses this I mean really the smell of this kind of like this classic gear that has to be just Yeah, just takes your brain there. Wow Yeah, yeah And you think about all of the stuff that you read or that you hear about the gene Experienced at any given time And you know, you're still talking about a regular guy. Yeah who carried his stuff in put his drums together himself So, you know, he's all over these drums. It's not as though these were there when he got there Yeah, these were in the back. These are in the back of sun station wagon the classic anecdotes about him playing the The concert at the new school with eddy condon and wild bill. Yeah Um the stories about how that was over my good friend Who was there a guy named ken spence? And him talking about his long conversations when everything is over and I could just imagine it An empty hallway in the school and there's gene waiting for the car And he's by himself. He's standing there, you know So yeah, I mean all of that stuff just kind of creates a just a marvelous image of Where this stuff was what it did, you know And there were like I said, there were some you know some interesting surprises Yeah, what what I mean, so Expand on the surprises a little bit more. I mean you're talking bass drum pedals besides that particular that earlier Was there anything that just really shocked you or you didn't expect to find or you found gene's tuning keys or well actually Yeah, there were plenty of those He didn't lose his tuning key. He's the only drummer in the world No, he he had lots of many. He had some he had some curious things like he had some I couldn't even figure out what brand it was curious Symbol stand in one of the trap cases. I still don't know what kind it was, but it was partially blue metal Wow, but it definitely wasn't a slingerland item The dynasonics, of course because the the oddest thing about the dynasonics was They took a page from bobby grouse's book In that they put slingerland lug casings on them But all the other parts are all 100 percent rogers So, you know, they weren't they weren't fooling anybody So you you just you kind of went down that path was that to Make it so gene could use it live and on recordings and still stay true to slingerland Try and kind of the buddy rich thing where he's he's kind of trying to hide it Truth be told I couldn't tell you. Okay. I mean it doesn't make any sense. It's not as though they were Not going to be blatantly obvious dynasonic rogers drunk. Yeah with the rail and you know I mean probably from 30 feet away. They would just look like another snare drum and no one would care And I believe I found one photograph of gene actually using the metal one But even that you know, even that's going to be you know, one person's interpretation or another Yeah, but I think it was one of those things where he was intrigued by it He wanted to try it out. I mean, you know how things go like that somebody walk up with a dynasonic under their arm and go gene I've always loved you here. Take this Yeah, totally and And there's there's gene walking home with a dynasonic snare or he may have asked for it I don't know but they were all kind of rough and dirty And there was this curious kind of folded paper muffler on the top head of the wooden one And it was obvious that whatever they were it was something gene was sort of futzing around with but never actually did anything with Much like much like the grasso the gladstone snares gene loved those drums Just loved them But the classic story is that his black diamond pearl snare wound up at frank's shop drum shop in new york where all of gene stuff would go And somebody started changing things around when gene found out about that he was incensed Because they'd taken off the original gut snares and put wire etc etc But the fact is the drum was at frank's drum shop. It was not in gene's basement Uh, it you know, it ultimately wound up there But yeah as did this stuff and anybody who wants to see some of this stuff in action Again, you can look at a number of videos, but there's also there was a documentary called born to swing Which I believe was uh, uh, narrated by uh, now deceased andre previn If i'm not mistaken. Anyway, it's done by, uh Uh, was it albert mccarthy Anyhow, yeah, you can see much you can see much of this stuff in the clips of gene in his basement Wow Because this was stuff that was set up in his basement that he played on all the time Now when you talked about the dynasonics in the in the in the the dustiness of them What are we talking about as far as the condition of everything was was it in Great shape brand new good, you know, how how did it look? Uh, really depended on the particular drums the bass drums The early 62 model which had a very famous front head on it Um, but actually a front head that was not it did not share the same history as the drum itself But it was i'm sure put on there because gene wanted to keep the front head And wanted to keep the drum That one was kind of well used I guess would be the right point You know The rims a lot of the paint shipping and And you know not horrible, you know, it was not as though it had been sitting in a junkyard. It was just well used Uh, not you know, not shiny and gleaming. Yeah, really And then the the 24 inch bass drum Much better shape because it was much newer Uh, and didn't get the use that the 22s did although it was used quite a lot For some reason it was in much better shape. That was one the one in the picture And then the other 22 which was the very last one that he used Was in pretty pretty nice shape Uh, you know front head was good. Everything else was good things were still shiny Um, you know badges were in the right place, etc. That was another thing is that you know, you're never going to be able to fake these drums At least for the for the bass drums and the snare drum because they have serial numbered bad. Yeah, really um So yeah, those things were in pretty good shape the parade snares were of course in very nice shape because they hardly got used The dynasonics for some reason were dusty Uh, chrome was really cloudy So, you know, who knows where they came from maybe someone else out there has some anecdote about Where gene got these? Uh, don't know if they do. I wish I you know, I wish they'd get in touch with me. I'd love to know That's the main thing is with all this stuff is you know, there are people out there who didn't know gene Or they you know, they know a story of gene Um And you know, it would be nice that all of that actually came together Yeah, and i'm working on that angle too, but that's a that's a different part. Yeah I'm just glad in general if you didn't find it and it was like You know that the roof had caved in and smashed it all and it was like well, this was gene's drum It's now it's a bunch of wood. But yeah, that's great And I'm truth be told I think the people The people knew that they had something really important Yeah, and you know for for all intents person may be more of it out there, but I kind of doubt it Okay I mean, I've I've authenticated quite a few drums that belonged or in fact didn't belong to gene But you never know. I mean the The little five by 10 Tom Tom the gene used with his very first Goodman trio set Who would have ever thought that that thing would pop out of nowhere, but it did a few years back Really? So, you know, there may be more stuff, but this stuff is just remarkable because it's It's all Identifiable, you know, it's all Yeah, you can look at a picture of that 14 by 22 and go. Okay. It's there. It's the same drone You know, yeah, and the lights and everything and it's just Unbelievable. Wow Yeah, I mean, I I love this stuff like this the spotlights and you know, even the bass drum pedals. I mean, there were several Super speed pedals there and I don't think gene ever used them Um And he I know that he used tempo kings and of course he used for most of his career. He used epic pedal But you know, I'm obviously gene got a lot of stuff just to try out and chances are a lot of it was just sent to him You know, uh, who knows whether he asked for it or not, but I believe that slingerland for a long time would send him stuff and say can you try this out Can you use this? Can we take pictures of you or whatever? Yeah? Yeah, wow, you know, he would he was quite loyal to the company I just think it's important to like what you taught me and I kind of already knew but what you taught me was just the the He's just such a nice guy. He was a gentleman he was a Just a kind person and I'm sure he would be happy to when people send him this stuff and he probably just kept it and said Of course, you know, I'm not gonna throw. I guess he would give it away to churches and stuff, but um It just it just builds that character up even more of just being a being a good guy Yeah, I I agree with that. I completely agree. He was a very gracious man And you know would go about things with a lot of class Uh, not to say that gene, you know, didn't have his opportunities to show that something bugged him, but sure Yeah, you know a lot of very very gracious guy Uh, plus the fact that a lot of this stuff May have been things that most people never saw because of the drum school It's like the things that were auctioned off by Skinner several years ago Most of that stuff actually was at the drum school not in gene's basement Until he finally got it back when the drum school ended and you know, there he was but So that stuff he absolutely would give away Because he wasn't using it. He didn't need it um And you know all of the stories about things like people would say well Why don't you just get slingerland to do such and such and gene would say well because I don't need that You know, yeah Instead of instead of getting an incomplete set of drums from slingerland. He would just ask for a bass drum Really? And you know, I've heard the story that you know, somebody said gene Why don't you just ask him to send you a whole set and he doesn't reply would be I don't need a whole set You know, I've got everything else I need right here So same thing with cymbal You know, there were there were interesting anecdotes That I dug up about certain cymbals that were in this collection When he came out of retirement in 1970 Armand zildjian just sent him a set of zildjian cymbals That I don't think he ever used but armand keeping the family tradition because they were very close He was very close to avidus And you know, they just they wanted to contribute when gene made it clear that he was coming back out of retirement So they just sent this stuff to him, you know, you don't do that with people who are jerks No, no, and it makes it makes far as I know No, you don't but it makes me think too gene coming up in that kind of uh, depression era Of i'm gonna keep what works and I don't want to pay. I don't want to bust anything else And I think that probably in in a lot of people's lives Translates to no, I will fix it. We don't need to buy something new. We'll fix this or I like my toms Give me the new bass drum. I'll I'll you know switch it out and do that. So that's that's awesome. Yeah Yeah, no question about it. I mean gene had a very very strong work ethic You know, even when he was playing with goodman, he would take gigs with other bands You know once in a while you'd hear about him be playing with some other band I mean that was in the the height of the the Rising popularity of goodman's band the gene needed to work. He needed to play You know, he was newly married young guy and needed He needed to make money. So yeah, and that continues all life married his telephone operating Bride as you can find out about in the previous episode all about gene crupa, which I mean I Think I think I feel like we're all lucky to be able to hear this from you who I think is just the guy that everyone looks at Why don't you unless you can think of some other little tidbits brooks? Why don't you share with people Where they can find you and I will obviously share a link to the To the the document you're gonna Give me access to in the whole world. So yeah, where do people find you? I'm an old guy Bart so I don't actually I don't actually remember it's it I have a blog site on Wordpress and I believe it's I'm labeled it's Gene crupa and his stuff or something quite like that But but I will send it to you once I'm sitting in front of my computer so that it makes sense and I will share it Sure. Okay. Yeah, that would be good. It's something like that It's a 28. It's a 28 page thing, but it includes pictures. That is awesome We are beyond lucky to be able to hear this about uh, well, I guess charlie watz is the lucky fellow here who gets to own this stuff and I just imagine him going into his drum Let's say warehouse like I would do And you just stand there and look at it and you just you know Have a drink or whatever and you're just looking at this stuff and just just touching it and you know I think he would appreciate it and it's it's not going to some guy who Is trying to then auction it off in 10 years and get rich off of it because I don't think he needs to Absolutely. He's doing okay. So absolutely and I and I I truly believe that that was a lot of the motivation for charlie was to preserve it Yeah to keep it from just becoming auction father Yeah, um, you know as I believe he's done with many others Um, uh, his heart is definitely in the right place about vintage drums and vintage drummers You know, he knows he definitely is in the right spot there And you know, thank goodness he's in a position to do it because if he wasn't I seriously doubt anyone else would step up to that plate. He's a very unique person in that regard Yeah, you know that he's willing to do that. I mean, obviously You know, he's made some money in his career A little bit. Yeah, I think so based on his interest in also horses and and his car collection Which are also pretty impressive, but you know Uh, I I'm going to forever be grateful that between the the work that don does and charlie's Dedication to it. This stuff is going to be safe. You know, that's for a long time. That's awesome. So Well, I am uh beyond honored that you would uh Give us the scoop and reveal this here and um That's just well, I think you guys do beautiful work I think what you do is great and I really think that uh, You know, it needs to happen more and it more people need to know about it Um, because I think it's very cool. That's great what you're up to here. Well, thank you very much I appreciate it's uh, it's a labor of love at this point and I'm uh, I'm having a lot of fun And uh, it is just such a cool way to connect with people such as yourself and um, have the opportunity to learn and We're we're doing it all together. Well, I think there probably are about 12 people in the world who knew about this until now Wow, that's amazing. So yeah, cool. And I did talk to don about doing it this way and he said, yeah, sounds like a great idea So, you know, amazing. I got full clearance That's great. And you know, yeah, you you got the scoop, you know, you got the scoop Now we just got to make sure we got to send the link to charlie and see if charlie can listen to it That'd be the ultimate goal to have a rolling stone listen. Well The other nice thing is that don is also a technical wizard So once he knows that it's actually coming out, he'll I'm sure he'll He'll be able to get to it right away. Cool Um, that's great. Well brooks, man, I mean again, thank you my friend I will have the link shared uh in the description of this episode and I'll post some photos and I just think keeping the The the legend of gene krupa alive is a Just an awesome thing and I'm happy to be a part of it in any way Well, my pleasure and I'm glad you're there to do it. Awesome. We'll we'll keep working at it. All right, brooks Yeah, we'll keep in touch brother. I'll talk to you later. Okay, man. Take care. All right. Bye. Bye If you like this podcast find me on social media at drum history And please share rate and leave a review and let me know topics that you would like to learn about in the future Until next time keep on learning This is a gwin sound podcast