 It's time for the Lawn Jean Chronoscope, a television journal of the important issues of the hour brought to you every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, a presentation of the Lawn Jean Wittner Watch Company, maker of Lawn Jean, the world's most honored watch, and Wittner, distinguished companion to the world-honored Lawn Jean. Good evening. This is Frank Knight. May I introduce our co-editors for this edition of the Lawn Jean Chronoscope? From the CBS television news staff, Larry LeSœur and Charles Collingwood. Our distinguished guest for this evening is the Honorable Herbert Morrison, deputy leader of the British Labour Party and member of Parliament. Well, since the British Labour Party has been out of office, the most noteworthy event that has occurred has been the visit of its leader to Red China. And of course, this visit has aroused much controversy, this mission to Beiping in the United States. So we're eager to ask, Mr. Morrison, tonight, just how much significance should be attached to this visit to Red China? Well, it is of some significance because it's the first British official Labour delegation to Communist China. In principle, it is not new, because we have had such visits now and again to the Soviet Union. And our approach is this, that here is this big thing that's happened in the world. It's a good thing for our people to see, at first hand, as far as they could, what is happening, to exchange views, and a very good thing for the Chinese behind the Iron Curtain, to meet our people. That is the basis of it. And at the end of the day, our people have come back. There are no more converted to communism than when they went. And I don't suppose that the Chinese Communists are any more converted to Western ways of thought than when they went. But we believe that in principle, it was a right and a good thing. Does nobody any harm and may conceivably do a little good. You don't feel, Mr. Morrison, that Mr. Atley's trip and that of your colleagues in the Labour Party fostered illusions about the possibility of cooperating with the Communists both in China and in Russia? I don't think so. We would wish to cooperate if they are ready, genuinely to cooperate for the peace of the world. Naturally, that's our point of view. But I don't think that it has caused us to be innocents abroad, so to speak. And I don't gather that from the articles that members of the delegation have written about it. Mr. Morrison, of course, the matter of timing, I think, was rather important. We've had some trouble in this country with the Red Chinese, which no doubt you know about. They've taken our prisoners. They haven't released a lot of them, and they've been rather difficult to deal with, to say the least. Now, would this visit actually mark a division between this country and Great Britain in the Pacific? Do you think? Well, I understand the American point of view. I think I don't wholly sympathize with everything that is said about it, because, if I may say so with respect, your country has a rather habit of fear speaking, whereas the British should go a little bit softer, not that it indicates a fundamental difference in the point of view. But I understand the American point of view, and I have every reason to appreciate, well, I've been here the degree of American feeling about it. I don't think, however, that it need involve any permanent estrangement between the two countries, which I, for one, would think would be a great tragedy. Well, Mr. Morrison, as far back as I can remember, you've been one of the bitterest foes of communism that must go ever had. But does your apparent approval of Mr. Atlee's visit to Red China foretoken a change of mind in your part? No, no, I am still strongly opposed to communism, the totalitarian philosophy and the idea of dictatorship, I believe in the cause of freedom. I believe in particular of the right of the ordinary commoner-garden citizen to oppose his government and to seek by peaceful means to get a different one. Therefore, I am strongly anti-communist, and my views are in no way modified. Well, could we attribute this visit then possibly to domestic politics in? No, you can only attribute it to the reasons that I gave you in answer to an earlier question. I don't think that it was in any sense a technical move in relation to internal British political parties' tragedy. What are you mentioned? You talk about communism, Mr. Morrison, rather than Chinese communism in particular. A good many observers feel that one of the differences between the American point of view on the world situation and the British point of view is that we take more seriously than you the possibility of Russian communist aggression. Do you feel that this is a real source of difference between our two countries? I would think it's a temperamental source of difference in the main. Americans think rather more fiercely about these things. And as I say, we are perhaps just a little more philosophic about it. And you may think that's very naughty on our part, but there it is. But we've no illusions about the possible dangers of these great blocks of totalitarian regimes in relation to the peace of the world. On the other hand, I would say this, that we are steadily on the lookout for the possibilities of changes in Soviet policy and Chinese policy to come to that. And if there were reasonably reliable indications of material alterations in policy, we feel it would be a bad thing for the world that the Western democracies should refuse to respond in any way. In the meantime, we're not we're we're not being foolish about it. Because no one wants to have a resentment too long. Mr. Morrison requests we did lose more than one hundred thousand casualties in Korea fighting the Chinese who invaded Korea. But I'd like to go into the subject of resentment. But if I may interrupt you, I agree entirely about that. And I understand American effort was a very brave one and you suffered a great deal and it would be foolish on our part if we didn't appreciate American feeling in that respect, which I think is generally understood in Great Britain. I want to go on from there to say that, of course, nobody took it harder on the chin or on the head if I may say so. In the British working man during the German bombardment of London, how does how much of a split is there in the in the British Labour Party about the issue of re-arming Germany? Well, there's been a considerable difference of opinion about it. It's no good denying that term in the light of the close majority in the parliamentary party some months ago, they're not so close, but still substantial minority on the national executive. And now the close vote at the party conference at Scarborough just before I left for the United States. It is a strong difference of opinion and you can't ascribe it to any particular body of political philosophy. It's mixed. The reasons that people oppose it are mixed. And I would say a high proportion of them are genuine and sincere about it. However, the executive one and I think it is a good thing that they have. And I think that now we're over the top, so to speak. And there is an official party conference decision about it, which in principle has been accepted since 1950, but there have been reservations. But now that decision has been reached. I think that there will be a greater readiness on the part of the rank and file and some of the members of parliament to think about the matter, rather more on the merits of the case with somewhat less emotional content than content than was the case before. Mr Morrison, I must confess to you that there is a little bit of concern in this country over the possibility of the return of the British Labour power, the British Labour Party to power because of the publicly announced policies of Mr Anirin Bevan. Now, just how strong is Mr Bevan in your Labour Party? Well, now, we got a decision of the Parliamentary Party and the National Executive saying that we shouldn't attack each other. And so I'm not going to do it, certainly not from this side of the border. But I don't want to do it. And frankly, I think that this particular angle of British politics is has been rather overdone in the press. And a good many of the people are getting a bit bored by it. If I may say so, I'm getting a little bit bored by it myself. So in the circumstances, perhaps you will forgive me if I don't pursue it. Well, Mr Morrison, on that point of view, the return of the British Labour Party to power, we've got an election coming up in about three weeks in this country. So we naturally think about that. When are the ones that are going to be the next next general election in Great Britain? When do you think it must be held not later than 1956? And I don't know when it will be held really any more than you do, because it's for the Prime Minister to recommend the Queen as to the date of the dissolution of Parliament. And you're no longer in his confidence. No, he hasn't told me. I'm not sure he knows himself. And Mr Morrison, what are they? My hunch is it might be next year, but I can't be sure. With retirement, Winston Churchill will be the signal for you to call for divisions and votes of confidence in the government? Not necessarily. If the new Prime Minister and the newly constituted the government was to make considered and fresh declarations of policy, we might move a motion or an amendment to declare our point of view, which in effect would be a vote of censure on the government. It doesn't follow that it will happen. I think it is likely that if Mr Churchill were to retire, which is for him to decide and he had a successor, it is possible that that successor within a reasonable time, not necessarily immediately, might want an election. Mr. Morrison, I ask you, how would you account for the fact that since the Conservative Party is back in power in Britain, there is an apparent return to prosperity since they have given the nationalized industries back again to private enterprise? Well, I don't think that's got anything to do with it. And I think it was bad. I think it was bad to scrap the great idea of the coordination of all forms of transport. And I think it was bad to put Ireland steelback or they're trying to put it back where it was. But I don't think it has made any decisive influence as a contribution to prosperity. I would indeed argue that if anything, it's the other way about. But I would argue this further. That considering that we had just emerged from a war in which our export trade had gone, our investments overseas investments had very largely gone and so on, I would say that the achievements of the Labour government in contributing to prosperity, full employment, increased production were enormous. And I would not admit for one moment that the achievements of the present government have taken the circumstances into account have been any greater if it was great. As those of the Labour government have one short question. If you were to return to power, would that make any difference in the relations between the United States and Britain? I don't think it should hurt relationships between the United States and Britain. Might conceivably improve them. I had a lot to do as a deputy prime minister and a member of the cabinet in hearing the reports of Ernest Bevin about Anglo-American relations. And I conducted them as foreign secretary for seven months in 1951. And we got on very well with the United States. We're very fond of the United States and I believe we would continue to get on very well with the United States. Thank you very much, Mr. Morrison. We're always glad to have you come over here. Very glad to be here. The opinions expressed on the Lawn Jean Chronoscope were those of the speakers. The editorial board for this edition of the Lawn Jean Chronoscope was Larry LaSere and Charles Collingwood. Our distinguished guest was the Honorable Herbert Morrison, Deputy Leader of the British Labour Party and Member of Parliament. 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