 So today is going to be a master class. Thanks so much for all of you joining us live as well as recording. And of course, we start every episode by extending our deepest and sincerest gratitude and appreciation to each and every one of these presenting sponsors. They have been phenomenal to work with, spectacular supporters of not only the show, Julia, but wouldn't you say like I have seen each and every one of these companies and representatives step up in a big way, roll up their sleeves, get in the trenches and really lean in as we continue to navigate what COVID rebound looks like. I agree. It's remarkable. And it makes me love the sector even more. Yeah. Yeah. It's been a lot of fun. Julia Patrick is here as always looking fabulous. Julia is the CEO of the American Nonprofit Academy. And I like to say that I get to play alongside Julia each and every day. And it's just been such a pleasure. I'm Jarrett Mansome, also known as the non-profit nerd. And in fact, those glasses may just come out today. And I'm also CEO of the Raven Group. So I do my own consulting. And today's master class is really about that, Julia, because you and I often either put each other or ourselves in the hot seat to say, hey, I'm observing something that's going on in the sector. I think we should talk about it. So here we are. And I am going to share with all of you today. And Julia is going to help me as we continue through the master class. But we're going to talk about insider's tips when it comes specifically for interviewing for the job. Now, before we get started, Julia, you said, this is actually tips that are relevant in so many different areas, so many different ways. Truth be told, I am helping a client, right, hire. And I have been observing what this whole process has looked like. I've been taking some copious notes along the way. And I just wanted to share, have this recorded and to use this for so many of us that are either interviewing ourselves or interviewing someone to join the team. So that's what today is all about. And I'm super excited to unzip my brain and just pour it all out. You know what I think is, yeah. What I think is interesting about this, Jared, is that we have a confluence of very interesting inputs. We have a change in the way we are working. And a lot of that has been driven because of COVID. It was starting, work from home, work remotely. Those things were starting to move forward. But it was just amplified, we all get that. We have an aging demographic, meaning that we have a huge swath of our population that's retiring out of the sector. And this is age related. This is not a job dissatisfaction. It is an age demographic shift. We have a third piece to this where we have not as a sector really brought the people behind us because we don't really even have that much organized education. I mean, you can't in too many places in this country graduate with a higher degree in nonprofit management. It's still very limited. And then we have a really interesting wackadoo thing that's going on, partly because of COVID, partly because of a demographic shift. We have a different workforce environment. We don't have people coming in that are working in the traditional way. So it's just a fascinating time. And so what better discussion than to really lean in to this process, whether you are looking for a job, whether you are hiring, whether you have children, spouses, neighbors, even if you're trying to maybe interview or move yourself up within the career ladder. Absolutely. I mean, so, okay, sister, we don't have that much time, but we got a lot. Tip number one. Yeah, tip number one. And again, some of these might seem like common sense, but I just want to dive a little deeper, you know, as I've again observed and witnessed this myself. If you were interviewing for an opportunity, I want you to consider what your digital footprint looks like. What is out there by way of social media photos and by way of access to your social media channels. And so I'm talking about your personal ones, right? So when you are in an interview season, let's call this, I would highly recommend that you make your profile as bland as possible. Now I don't mean that you can't share your personality or you can't show photos of your family or any of that, but I would highly encourage you to really play that happy medium. You don't want to be so polarizing maybe in your post or your photos or your statements that would actually impede you from getting an interview, right? So a lot of people, whether you share it or not, they will absolutely kind of do their own due diligence, search your name, search your email, see what pulls up on your digital footprint. And so that social media photo and access, I think is pretty important. As technology advances, right? Many of us are sharing photos on many internet channels or we're being tagged by our friends. And that is something I think that you also wanna consider is when you're in this interview season, just go ahead and do an audit of your social media. What is posted? What is being seen? What is the access of others outside your close knit family and friends that you have allowed into the circle? Check those access points because there are several settings that you could share or change rather. And so that it doesn't allow anyone outside of your connection to be privy to some of your posts or some of your photos. And I think that's a great time. Tip number one, just do a quick audit of your digital footprint. I love it. And I think you shared something off camera and that was somebody and a candidate that you were looking at that had posted something that was a political in nature, I stand with X. And while you weren't getting into necessarily whether you agreed or you disagreed, it was kind of an interesting reflection or maybe a parameter that you applied to that person without ever talking with them, without ever meeting with them, it automatically shifted them to a different stack, I guess. Well, and I think what it does is it allows unconscious bias, right? It really allows us to kind of put an unconscious bias whether it's for good or I don't know, it's bias always bad, but really looking at, how do we categorize this individual, especially if this is a committee of varying opinions. Well, yeah, I thought that was fascinating. And I think it's a really smart thing. And I love that you used the word audit. And I think sometimes that's one of those things where if you could have somebody maybe look at that through a different lens because what we see ourselves and what we, we know that the story behind the image or the statement, somebody else might not. And so- And with that, I would challenge, ask people of varying generations to take a look. If it's something that triggers or makes someone pause of a certain demographic, I would certainly be mindful of that. Maybe look at your close friends and family and just ask them to, hey, would you mind taking a look at my social media? I am in an interview season. Just wanted to know if there's anything that might catch your eye that I might wanna reconsider my settings during the season of interviewing. Love it. So tip number one, social media photos and access. Take a look at it, audit yourself do internally. Okay, tip number two, update your LinkedIn and resume. So I do consider LinkedIn one of my social media channels and I will say I am very, gosh, active on LinkedIn. And so that is typically the first place I go to to find a potential candidate, a potential contact, a potential client for me, right? Like I am sourcing LinkedIn first and foremost. So I want you to make sure your LinkedIn profile is updated. Make sure you have a professional photo posted because the last thing I wanna see is that little gray and white avatar that doesn't tell me who you are. I would love to see that photo. Make sure it's a professional photo. Again, like really just your face and LinkedIn is much more professional. Instagram, our social media channels like Facebook, very different. My Facebook has a photo of my son and I, my LinkedIn, he didn't make the cut, it's just me. Sorry son, I love you, but that's not the platform for you. And so I wanna make sure your LinkedIn is updated, not only with that photo, but really, if you're not sharing with your current employer that you're searching, I don't think you have to change that kind of like bio at the top, but I would completely ensure that your responsibilities and what you're doing at your current organization and every organization before that represents accurately and truly shows some specific and measurable goals. For instance, if you are a fundraiser, I want you to share in there what your portfolio size is or what type of an ask you're making. So do you manage the constituents between $1 and $10,000? And is that, you know, is that something that you can post or do you have a portfolio of let's say 150 people, right? Like somehow make some measurable statement. So it really catapults the information. When I'm looking at your LinkedIn page, I can see what you've done, what you've been responsible for doing and how that relates to the job in which you've applied for. I love that being much more specific. And then before we move on to tip number three, pardon me, you spoke a little bit more about using the resume function that LinkedIn has. Can you expand upon that? I love it. And I'm gonna tell you, you know, as a consultant, I still have people that will say, will you send me your resume? I don't do a resume anymore. LinkedIn has it all for you. So I personally, you know, if you go to my LinkedIn profile, which I hope you all will send me an invite, would love to connect, you will see where I've put all of these practices into place. So you will see what I've done for my clients. You will see what I've done for, you know, when I had a J-O-B, you'll see these things in there. And so all you do is a push of a button on LinkedIn that says, you know, print out or save my PDF of my resume. It is right there on LinkedIn. So when you have your LinkedIn updated with these measurable responsibilities, it makes it really simple, very simple. I think that's really good advice. I've been hearing that from other people. You know, that's being used for board recruitment. It's not just jobs. It's for, you know, awards or honor situations. Absolutely. I think that's really, really good advice. So update your LinkedIn resume and LinkedIn account in the resume. That's tip number two, get at it. And I have to say, you know, Jared, we use LinkedIn all the time on the nonprofit show and fundraising events TV to vet our guests that are coming on. Absolutely. I mean, I think it's an incredible tool. Okay, this is interesting. I wouldn't have thought of this. Tip number three, confirmations, interview and contact for tech. So what does that mean? You know, life happens. We've all had internet outages. We've all had Zoom go down. We've had updates on platforms. We've had computer crashes. We've had a little bit of everything, right? Because the broadband and everything that's being used technology-wise worldwide is really inundated right now. So let's start with the interview. I want you to confirm that when you received the invitation for the interview and really repeat back to them, you know, thank you so much. I look forward to the interview on X date, X time, on whatever platform, right? Whatever that might be. It could be in person, could be by telephone or it could be by a video conference. I want you to really confirm that in a reply response if it is done by email or if it is verbally done, I would like for you to take that extra step and memorialize that confirmation via email. Secondarily, in that same confirmation, I want you to ask if something were to come up and I need to reach someone right away or right before my time of joining you on the video conference to whom should I call and how should I reach them, right? So for instance, maybe they want you to text them. Maybe they want you to call them. Maybe there's a tech contact that will be filtering any of these requests or kind of last minute challenges. So I want you to consider that because anything could happen even as far as the link that is sent by way of a video conference, it could have been a wrong one, it could be missing a number, it could have transposed a number, various things. So do you ask in this confirmation email if something were to arise, how do you prefer that I contact you? You know, I like that because I think that also demonstrates like another layer of intellect, of management, of accountability. And when I'm initiative, solution-based problem solving. I mean, I kind of see some other characteristics of somebody that I won on my team when I get that. Absolutely, absolutely. So take that on, that is absolutely tip number three. When we look at the confirmation, consider, and I really hope that you will do this and I'm telling you by example, those that I received a confirmation reply from, I was like, okay, got it. One, my email went through to, they're clear and there's no questions. And then secondarily in that, if something were to come up, who should I contact? How do you prefer to be communicated with? I think that's really important because we've all been there. I've been there to myself where I'm frantic or I put in an address and my GPS took me to the wrong address, now I'm running late and there's anything that could happen. So confirmation is the tip number three and again, really looking at the platform, the time and any tech issues that may arise. Very good idea. I mean, it's a lot deeper than just that normal connectivity that we stress out about. Okay, now this is kind of an interesting thing. When we started today's episode, we talked about how so many things from the pandemics have impacted a lot of what this job interview or just interview process is. This is something we would have never really spoken about just 18 months ago. Tip number four, relocation info, work locations. So I'm sharing this transparently because I have had the privilege of working with several amazing nonprofit professionals that during COVID have realized that they want to be closer to home, closer to family or in a completely different community setting and environment. So I share this because one, I've had the honor of talking to so many individuals that have trusted me with this information. But secondarily, I've noticed during an executive search that there have been an uptick of applicants applying to a community in which they do not currently reside. So that to me was fascinating. And so looking at the relocation, a couple of things here. If you have made that decision to relocate to a different community, I would take the initiative and share that in your resume. I would share that in your cover letter and I would make it very clear that you have made the decision to relocate to this community because everything work-wise will show a different community. So again, you don't wanna have that unconscious bias of let's say I see a resume and everything is Texas. Well, I know that I'm hiring in Minnesota. So this doesn't make sense to me, right? So go ahead and address the relocation that maybe you have already made, you have committed to this and maybe even what that timeline looks like. I think that is really important. Secondarily, you wanna confirm the work location. So this means both physically, in-person, as well as remote, what does this look like? Because there are a lot of opportunities out there. I do think that staffing boutique does a phenomenal job when she posts about the openings for her clients. She will say remote for now, right? Or she will say, this is an in-office New York-based community position. And so you just wanna be very clear because a lot of places are still working remote or they have a louth, that hybrid approach and what that might look like. Now, some of them that are remote may be transitioning to physical and you wanna know that timeline. So if you've made this commitment for a relocation, I'm gonna use Texas and Minnesota again. If you've made this commitment to move to Minnesota, you currently live in Texas, let them know what that timeline looks like. Again, like be forthright in that conversation and that communication. But there could be an opportunity that, while it is a physical location and that they want you there in-person, that might not be till January 1. That might not be until October. We really don't know what that looks like. So that's why I say, I think it's really good to address your physical location as well as your desire and commitment for a relocation. Many organizations do not offer a relocation package. So that question will come up of, if I'm seeing an all Texas resume and we're hiring in Minnesota, is this person expecting a relocation package? Because perhaps we have not accounted for that in the budget. Right. Well, it's really an interesting question because this is something that we've seen with boards. The number of board members now that are coming into us from different parts of the country and are they willing to travel to remote, like say dial in, I'm thinking of, boardable who has so many options for remote board work but are board members going to be asked to fly into a different city or, Right. Or events. Central one, or events, yeah. And so- But the commitment for those physical locations. And that's really, that's the same discussion for the job market. I mean, it's- Absolutely. Fascinating, fascinating. So really a great thing to look at. And I also liked the gem that you threw in there. It might not be now, but it might be later. The fall, January 1st, whatever. So tip number four, get the dates on relocation information and work locations. Very, very important. Okay, drum roll please because tip number five, video conferences and the professional presentation. Yes. Now we have harped on this for a really long time and you would think by now that everyone is really dialed in and has got this figured out. Backdrops are amazing. There are so many great backdrops out there that you can use certainly on Zoom and many other video conference platforms. If you do not have the capability for that backdrop, then I want you to be very intentional with what is behind you. And there's so many conversations I know that we have provided along the way 312 plus episodes of how to present yourself in a very professional presentation on a video conference. Again, like really looking at, okay, where is my camera? Is my system, is it level? Is it sitting still? Is there anything shaking? I would highly encourage you to use a laptop, a tablet, even your phone, but make sure that it is completely stationary. We don't wanna have any instances where it might look like a FaceTime conversation and you're using, yeah, maybe you're using your video platform on your handheld device. It could be an iPad, it could be any of these, right? Or it could be me walking around with a laptop, which Julia, you've been privy to having a tour of my home before because I'll say, oh, I've gotta grab something. You don't wanna do that in an interview. You want to be set in a primary location. You wanna make sure you know what's behind you. Do what you can to enable that professional setting and make sure your audio is working well. Again, kind of with that social media audit, do a test run with a friend or a family member. Go ahead and set that up. Maybe do some mock questions. Test your lighting, test your internet connectivity. Test when the mail is delivered and when your dog typically barks. All of that is pretty important. But really, again, you want to have something stationary because you don't wanna have this like a FaceTime scenario where you're walking around or you're kind of moving your handheld device in a way that is distracting. We don't wanna distract anything from you because you are an amazing professional nonprofit rock star. So we want that to come across in a very professional presentation manner. You know, one of the things that we do with all of our guests for the nonprofit show is we have them come on 15 minutes early. And during that time, we make sure that the bathroom door is shut or we can't see their bed. I mean, you would like. Lights are turned on or off depending. Yeah, you would not believe what Jared and I have seen, which is, it's just shocking. You remember that? Oh, wait, no, I won't show that one. We'll talk later. No, but you know, it's fascinating. But I would say one of the things that our executive producer, Kevin Pace, is always on. And he's the one that kind of guides this conversation. He's with us every day. You don't see him. You can't hear him. We can see him as we're recording. But anyway, long story short, one of the things that Kevin Pace is always doing for our guests is saying, we want your head at the top end of the frame as opposed to down here or where they're up here. Oh, or yeah. So for me to be thinking about where you are and positions. Yeah, it shouldn't be something that we're even talking about. But even when you see people that are zooming in off for interviews with major media outlets, we're always amazed at how somebody didn't say, put your laptop on some books and get it elevated or move the camera down so it comes down. You had test run. Even this morning as I was writing, my camera was shaking, right? And what did Kevin do? Why is your camera shaking? Well, I'm writing at the moment. But if that's going to happen during an interview process, that will be very distracting. So you wanna make sure that you have your setup in a manner that is not distracting and will eliminate any of anything that could take them away from focusing on you and your professional expertise and what you're bringing to the table. Absolutely. Well, Jared, as always, I think that this masterclass, it even confirms even more like I really needed it, but it's truly, it confirms that you are my nonprofit nerd. Look at the glasses. That's the glasses on. You are all of our nonprofit nerds. You are our nonprofit nerd, I should say. I'm here to stay. There's so much to go around, but yes, I would love it. And do you connect with me on LinkedIn? I would love, even if you send me an email and say, hey, do you mind taking a look at my LinkedIn? I would love to be of service for you in that way. So take advantage of that, I would love it. And Julia, it's always a pleasure to be here with you, so thank you. Well, it's been amazing. Again, I'm Julia Patrick, CEO of the American Nonprofit Academy, been joined by the nonprofit nerd herself, Jared Ransom. We were able to put her in the hot seat today and just get this information that is so critical to what we are doing, whether you are looking for a job or you are hiring for positions within your organization, trying to get on boards, trying to collaborate. This is the world that we live in and I think- Or if you're mentoring a colleague or a family member, it's really, really important. It really, really is. Again, we wanna thank all of our presenting sponsors who've been on this journey with us and who continue to really support us. We're very excited, we just signed. I think we can share this yesterday, staffing boutique for the next year. That means they're gonna be with us until 2022. She's awesome, in New York. In New York, amazing. Anyway, we also wanna let everyone know, fundraising events TV is really kicking into gear, so check us out with that. Okay, I have to witness to you. I'm kinda glad I'm not having to look for a job, but I feel better that if I had to. I don't, do I? Would you tell me so I could get my LinkedIn updated? I could do that social media audit that I referenced. All those pictures? No, no, really, I shouldn't tease, but I am grateful because this is a lot of work, but if you do work up front, I think you're gonna have better success. And it's always about meeting expectations between two parties. Everybody wants to win, everybody wants to do it. Absolutely, we're looking for win-win. Yeah, it's so important. Well, wow, another great episode. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and I am so honored that we could spend this time together. As we like to end every episode of the nonprofit show, we wanna remind you to stay well so you can do well. See you back here tomorrow.